Ishu - *Xanatos* Can or will NC make a server that is more NA friendly like NC did for Lineage 1 with the Lands of Aden Server?
[NC]Sarge - Hmm, why don't you drop by the boards and tell us what you think about that idea?
Now, I'm not Xanatos, but I'm going to be one of the guys who drops by the boards and tells you what he thinks of this idea. :)
I think it would be a good idea to have a new server added to the list that could have a more relaxed feel with less of a grind. Of course, this idea has been mentioned a million times by tons of other users here and on the old forums before they went byebye. Needless to say, it's never gotten any sort of response or even a reaction from the staff, at least not publically on the boards.
The server could have an increased XP, SP, and drop rates. Everyone saw how popular the PTS was and how well things went there (at least, before the broken boost messed everything up, that is). I don't believe that the rates need to be anywhere NEAR what they were on the PTS, but even a slight increase would be nice.
That's real cute Csphere. But the fact remains that many, many people have quit L2 because of the grind and non-existent drop rates.
Adding another server with relaxed play would go a long way in bringing some of these players back as well as new people more inclined to casual gameplay. Why should those of us on the regular servers and the ulta-hardcore care? Well, more paying customers in NA will benefit us all. The more money NC Soft rakes in from NA the more likely they are to listen to our concerns.
Having a separate, relaxed server would not force anyone to be a carebear. If you don't like it stay on the regular servers. But it would give the people who don't have the time or desire to play hour after hour an opportunity to play a game they may otherwise love.
It might even help curb (curb I say, not eliminate) the e-bay/farmer problem since many e-bayers are working people that have money to spend but not time. If they had a relaxed server they could get the gear they want without resorting to adena, inc. , thus pulling away some of the e-bay customers.
I feel that this should <at least> sit on the back burner until they get their most destructive problems out of the way.
In other words, along with my original reply: Tend to the more universal problems before creating a relaxed server that would require far far more reprogramming than would usually be involved in this topic... (relaxed pvp server wahwah)
I'll go ahead and keep out of the topic. :) <--oops
I feel that this should <at least> sit on the back burner until they get their most destructive problems out of the way.
In other words, along with my original reply: Tend to the more universal problems before creating a relaxed server that would require far far more reprogramming than would usually be involved in this topic... (relaxed pvp server wahwah)
I'll go ahead and keep out of the topic. :)
How hard is it to tweak EXP/SP/Adena/Drop rates? They do it at will on the PTS. That would be the only difference between relaxed/regular servers.
I agree that adding a relaxed server should not be at the expense of improving the existing servers. But I don't see where it would be that big of a deal.
I feel that this should <at least> sit on the back burner until they get their most destructive problems out of the way.
In other words, along with my original reply: Tend to the more universal problems before creating a relaxed server that would require far far more reprogramming than would usually be involved in this topic... (relaxed pvp server wahwah)
I'll go ahead and keep out of the topic. :)
How hard is it to tweak EXP/SP/Adena/Drop rates? They do it at will on the PTS. That would be the only difference between relaxed/regular servers.
I agree that adding a relaxed server should not be at the expense of improving the existing servers. But I don't see where it would be that big of a deal.
I think the adena/sp/xp+++++ ppl tend to exist on Private Servers, then they quit...
yeah their are plenty of illegal private servers that do this boosted exp/sp/ etc etc......they play there max out several characters find the one they like best find the best equp....then guess what...they come back to a regular sever to make that character....
it's not difficult to do....take about a day to set up in fact....I don't see any huge pressing probelms that are going to go down the tubes b/c of this suggestion.
yeah their are plenty of illegal private servers that do this boosted exp/sp/ etc etc......they play there max out several characters find the one they like best find the best equp....then guess what...they come back to a regular sever to make that character....
it's not difficult to do....take about a day to set up in fact....I don't see any huge pressing probelms that are going to go down the tubes b/c of this suggestion.
Actually I started playing L2 on a private server, and after playing EQ for over 5 years the whole experiance of everyone being max level in the best gear was cheapened. Private servers were my insperation to play retail, because I wanted the time I spent enjoying the game to have a meaning 'in game'.
Let us do the prioritizing, folks - I'd rather hear the support/objections to the idea. Fact is, different teams can do different things and if, say, everybody wants more types of squeaky shoes, and everybody also wants higher elpy spawns, doing one does not necessarily mean we're pulling resources away from the other.
That's real cute Csphere. But the fact remains that many, many people have quit L2 because of the grind and non-existent drop rates.
Adding another server with relaxed play would go a long way in bringing some of these players back as well as new people more inclined to casual gameplay. Why should those of us on the regular servers and the ulta-hardcore care? Well, more paying customers in NA will benefit us all. The more money NC Soft rakes in from NA the more likely they are to listen to our concerns.
Having a separate, relaxed server would not force anyone to be a carebear. If you don't like it stay on the regular servers. But it would give the people who don't have the time or desire to play hour after hour an opportunity to play a game they may otherwise love.
It might even help curb (curb I say, not eliminate) the e-bay/farmer problem since many e-bayers are working people that have money to spend but not time. If they had a relaxed server they could get the gear they want without resorting to adena, inc. , thus pulling away some of the e-bay customers.
I do like the idea of a Server geared toward people that do not have the time to grind away to top levels and get the best gear. My concern is that some of the Hardcore players with more time on their hands come over also and level up and gear up so fast that they control the server by PKing lower levels and or controling all the castles. Now I am not sure thats a valid concern but wanted to toss it up. What about the adding the idea of the more time you play on the relaxed server the lower the XP/SP/Adena boost you get.
I do like the idea of a relaxed server with XP/Adena/SP increase. Could bring back some people that I know that don't want to grind.
Very good topic guys hope to keep this on topic and rolling, and who knows if we can get this rolling enough to maybe make it happen.
again I agree.be great for ppl who have far more time limitations like say....children...for example...and give them a chance to actualy see the top levels.....
Don't be concerned about hardcore gamers, they feel these servers are for "wimps who can't cut it in the real game" so a few might go over for a bit but will eventualy leave.
Let us do the prioritizing, folks - I'd rather hear the support/objections to the idea. Fact is, different teams can do different things and if, say, everybody wants more types of squeaky shoes, and everybody also wants higher elpy spawns, doing one does not necessarily mean we're pulling resources away from the other.
Sarge
As many saw on the pts when they were testing C3, there is already some sort of coding for limited time servers.
Remember that message, something like: "you have "x" amount of time left this pay period... "
It's possible that this is one of their plans already in place.
personally I like how xp is done... not sure if I wouldn't mind an alternative rules pvp server though...
Rates of return and casual versus hardcore player are relative. On a casual server, you will still have players who end up being defined as hardcore and those as casual. Changing the rate of return may make the game easier than hardcore servers, but it will remain relative.
And, this would not really change the fact that Time is still the limiting commodity. Some will always have more of it than others. If the intent is to balance the use and value of time, then the solution could be to have a dynamic reward system where experience is adjusted depending on the amount of time one plays -- the less time you are actually in the game playing increases the amount of experience you get per kill. Those who play more would get less experience per kill. Feasible? Is such "social engineering" appropriate?
Let us do the prioritizing, folks - I'd rather hear the support/objections to the idea. Fact is, different teams can do different things and if, say, everybody wants more types of squeaky shoes, and everybody also wants higher elpy spawns, doing one does not necessarily mean we're pulling resources away from the other.
Sarge
Sarge - my suggestion really would be not to listen to the majority of people who post in this thread, and any other thread on relax servers for that matter. There is a considerable ignorance of what the Korean relax server (Iana) was launched to achieve, and how it works.
In a nutshell, NCI should have implemented a relax server as soon as the code became available and heavily promoted it , as it provides numerous benefits in the way of marketing the game to a different set of gamers (casual gamers - i.e. the majority of the gaming market) and competing against other MMOs that are currently smoking L2 in terms of subscriber levels. But you didn't and now a lot of the potential benefit has been lost.
For an idea of the benefits of a relax server, refer to the following which I wrote before C3 when NCI stood to gain the most from marketing the improvements to the game:
I just wonder how companies the size and stature of NCsoft can allow their holdings like NCI to continue to make serious mistakes in marketing and operating the game in NA/Europe, its amazing to me...
And one the worst ramifications of this comes in the continued perception in the market that L2 is a niche grind game - do you really think this will change unless you do something genuine and serious to change it. Or are you happy to tell CEO Tack Jin Kim you think 70,000 odd customers are good enough?
Even worse, do you think this perception will really change for Lineage 3? If you don't start making inroads now to better communicate what the game is about, and appeal to a wider market, then you will likely be subject to the same low subscriber fate when that product is released.
The coding is already in game and localised for the NA service. The Lineage2 server code is consolidated - the option to enable relax servers is little more than flag settings.
Sarge - please do not make the same mistakes your predecessors Dhevrin and Ash did, do something to change the perception of L2 in the MMO market. You may "only" be the community coordinator, but you have the ability to influence the thinking of the right people at NCI and be an impetus for change.
And one significant way you can achieve this is through the introduction and heavy marketing of a relax server. It does not matter what the players here think for the most part - the arguments for a relax server lie in its commercial benefit and role in better positioning the product in the Western market.
I don't see how this would take alot of time or jeopardize anything. Korea already has multiple "time limit" servers, so everything is already coded and ready to go, just the rollout is needed.
It wouldn't affect existing servers (those people would stay on their server). It might draw some people who previously weren't interested in Lineage to our own servers and with larger subscriber numbers, NC Korea would start giving *other* NC NA suggestions a bit more weight. As it stands now, we are a drop in the bucket when it comes to concerns.
once again I will hop on this relaxed server bandwagon idea. I like the idea of being able to level at the normal rate for 3 hours or so of game play time. But i would like to be able to atleast log in after this time to socialize. Also, for PvP i suggest what UO did with the "Order and Chaos" guilds. Simply put, people could sign up to be on either side and this allowed for open pvp with a change in the current pvp rules. i.e. you will not drop anything equipped, you get a social status depending on if you kill onnocent players or red players. And it also depends on if you kill withing a certain range of your level. This is just a summary, if anyone wants more details i can post them later.
I would suggest a 3 hour per 12 hour cycle maybe. Does anyone get up a little early for work and play? then come home and play for a little while? I know a few of my friends that do (wife and kids are not up yet, get home before the wife etc. you know what i mean.) but you dont get to carry over that time of 3/12.
if they do this then they should add a server instead of making them all this way. Also, if they do this, realize that alot of bots would inhabit this server. Also realze that all the high levels and griefers would probably flock to this server to be the first lvl 75 charecter on it. It would be the same thing just on a different server.
If they make the servers to easy i'm gone. One of the main reasons i stay here is because its hard and challenging. If i wanted an easy game I would hop over to WoW.
if they do this then they should add a server instead of making them all this way. Also, if they do this, realize that alot of bots would inhabit this server. Also realze that all the high levels and griefers would probably flock to this server to be the first lvl 75 charecter on it. It would be the same thing just on a different server.
If they make the servers to easy i'm gone. One of the main reasons i stay here is because its hard and challenging. If i wanted an easy game I would hop over to WoW.
I think you missed the whole point of this thread. No one said make all the servers this way. This idea was born with the idea of just adding one with the "relaxed" status.
As for a power gamers being the first to be 75, that is ok. But with the timer it gives even the casual player the same and equal chance to keep up. This server is not meant to be easier, just more equal given that the "all day" players dont have such a significant advantage.
mOO you need some serious reading comprehension classes dude...we are talking about making a relaxed sever simliar to alot fo the Private severs out there where EXP/Money/Sp all drop at rediculously fast rates....a NEW sever...if it's too easy for you you just go back to your normal sever....Farmers don't go there b/c everythign is sold at shops all the way up to S Grade amd money grows on trees....it's for ppl who don't have 30 days of playtime to max out a charcater but still want to see the high end content.
A relaxed server WITHOUT time constraints would attract 2 types of people:
1) The casual/time-pressed player who wants a chance to be able to compete on a server even though they don't have the time to grind like a kept man on his sugar mommy's payroll.
2) The type of griefer punks who tend to flock to newbie areas, use underhanded tactics to kill at low-minimal risk who will find this server as the optimum way to level up fast and do what they do best, drive well intentioned players from the game.
So, you are then left with the possibility of creating a relaxed server WITH a time limit. This could be a problem as well however. What if someone has a day off and they would LIKE to spend it grinding out? How are raids handled? Sieges? What happens when you are moments away from killing that boss mob or yards away from retrieving that piece of dropped armor when *blammmmo* your time is up for the day. Please feel free to log in after 12 hours have passed. Thank you for playing Lineage II.
I'm not saying that there isn't a perfect answer out there. But if there is I'm still waiting for it.
Meanwhile, as a player who works two jobs and has a family I have to say there is a reason I play L2 instead of its competition.
I dont think the server would kick you off when your time us up, it would simply stop you from gaining xp. I for one would like to mingle with friends even if my time was up for xp, go shopping craft as a dwarf etc. I do not like the idea of it being a money tree though. I think that the increased drop rate of items would be nice, but i too dont want this to be too easy. If it takes a year to make 60 playing at the max time limit im fine with that. as for sieges, they can simply lower the level of the guards and their quantity.
Allwine, that's a great way of looking at it. Stop the XP. Also stop the SP and mob drops.
However, keep in mind that you'd want to make sure that you aren't able to powerlevel people on their three hour xp jaunty while you are in-party gaining no xp and that you can't root/sleep dot their mobs for them.
Oh and so you aren't able to PK players and get their drops as well, or ninjaloot on your "off hours." Or participate in sieges/raids after you are "off the clock."
Then we are talking. To do otherwise would still allow for much exploitation.
Simply put, different rulesets are fine.
-More XP, More drop rates, stores sell everything.
-PvP disabled except in PvP zones. (no griefing)
-Trains are a banning offense on this server.
-Server resets every 6 months.
-Subclass and Hero system not supported.
You are expected to get to 75 in 3 months and participate in a few sieges, then your character is reset. You can try another character to 75.
You didn't risk, you didn't invest anything and you lost nothing.
There would be absolutely no need for bots... they would be pointless as everything grows on trees anyways... Also the characters are not even semi-permanent, so adena gained on the server is worthless.
You could try everything with a cost... you don't get to keep anything.
It would be an open test server for the players... to try what they wanted to play on the real servers. Or simply to play at a more relaxed pace...
Another possibility is permanent character retirement after X amount of playtime on the character. X could be quite generous, and the retirement clock could start after the character succeeded in certain requirements first. (got to level 40 etc...)
hmmm... perhaps they can make it so that trains will only attack the person who initially aggroed it (or party). If that person logs or does "fake death" then they go back to ... uh.. .standing around with nothing to do like all L2 mobs...
I wonder if they spawn and suddenly think... "now what?"
I like this idea especially since the private servers arent reliable places to play. A relaxed server would be very nice to just go and have fun. The real question here is, the rates. I think a community poll of rate options would be the best idea. Some people want rates high so you can reach 75 quickly, perhaps others just want a moderate increase over the regular servers. Some sort of a poll would be the best way to figure out what to set them at.
If you don't have alot of time to play, just stay a lowbie....
Ever wanted your wife/significant other to play so she would understand why you like this game?
This server would be perfect for newbies and specifically wives who like trying on all the new outfits... (My wife loves the clothes aspect.... that and the sharp objects... and the fire... and I'd rather she did that in game than out for all cases except the outfits.)
It was a hard sell to get her to play at first... this "newbie" server would have made life SO much easier.
The point of the game is fun. As long as the "newbie" server didn't have all the benefits of the normal servers, this is a very good idea.
Dude, that is so true. My wife disinterestedly "accepted" my gameplay as a minor nuissance until after months and a server move I finally convinced her to just give it a try. She has outleveled me now on two toons and is like a hardcore addict.
Still not sure a relaxed server answers the issues raised, but I have to agree it would have been easier to make her my gaming enabler.
An alternative -- if the idea was to have the opportunity to try out different races and classes without having to grind each one up -- would be to allow players who have leveled a character up to 75 to start their next character at 20 or at 40. I believe DAoC had something like that in place. As the hero system and such allows hardcore gamers to do their thing, more casual gamers could start different characters at higher levels.
One of the significant problems with such an approach, of course, would be equipment ... a naked 40th level character would be at a significant disadvantage but I would imagine the same would apply to a subclass for a 75th level character.
Another twist on this could be that once you reach level 40 and complete your 2nd class change quest, you can create new characters at level 20 characters. Somewhat of a help with the grind.
I totally Agree ! It's a fabulous game with drastic rates. I paid one month played three days and said, never more until ! Create a new server and increase the rates is the way to become this game least monotone. Keep in force the actual rate is sustent the free servers, sorry but in some aspects more atractive than here.
I paid one month played three days and said, never more until ! Create a new server and increase the rates is the way to become this game least monotone.
HIeverybody, please leave your opinions at the door. All of the 'hardcore' player opinions hold no weight and are incredibly illogical, being purely emotional in nature. I am glad that this old post has been revived, because it is a very important subject that needs to be discussed. The North American market NEEDS a Relaxed Play/Boosted Rates server for those casual gamers who love the game but who actually have lives that require their time. People who can't play more than a couple hours every few days.
HIeverybody, please leave your opinions at the door. All of the 'hardcore' player opinions hold no weight and are incredibly illogical, being purely emotional in nature. I am glad that this old post has been revived, because it is a very important subject that needs to be discussed.
Um, gonna be kinda one-sided if you only allow your opinion to be discussed. Have at it, though.
HIeverybody, please leave your opinions at the door. All of the 'hardcore' player opinions hold no weight and are incredibly illogical, being purely emotional in nature. I am glad that this old post has been revived, because it is a very important subject that needs to be discussed. The North American market NEEDS a Relaxed Play/Boosted Rates server for those casual gamers who love the game but who actually have lives that require their time. People who can't play more than a couple hours every few days.
Rouge my oppinions follow me where ever I go. And since I'm over 4x. Me > U.
I support a new server. Relaxed rates, like the Korean. Limited hours of play per week. Would also be farmers nightmare. I don't se why oposition should have much of a say. They aren't paying fo the pro new servers game time.
I say it's over due. It's some thing thats been anted a long time and has been ignored. Plus if you emailed people that left wih info on the new serve and possibly a promo I think you could get a lot of people back. Plus new players would be more likely to join.
Oh and make sure you keep PVP. The server should be for people who play as a hobby not a life. If RPers want a non pvp server if there is enough of them that would be cool too. But you have mor then enough ppl who want a relaxed pvp server.
HIeverybody, please leave your opinions at the door. All of the 'hardcore' player opinions hold no weight and are incredibly illogical, being purely emotional in nature. I am glad that this old post has been revived, because it is a very important subject that needs to be discussed. The North American market NEEDS a Relaxed Play/Boosted Rates server for those casual gamers who love the game but who actually have lives that require their time. People who can't play more than a couple hours every few days.
Those who opposed the idea never gave us a logical explaination. If you do not like relaxed server, can you just shut up (no offense) and continue to play at the server you can never log on? Why try to ruin others feast.
Those who opposed the idea never gave us a logical explaination.
That is your opinion. In the 100's of other threads about this topic there are very good reason on both sides. Pretend they don't exist, though, if it makes you feel better.
If you do not like relaxed server, can you just shut up (no offense) and continue to play at the server you can never log on? Why try to ruin others feast.
There again, if people have an opinion different from yours they need to just shut up? Nice.
There is nothing wrong with wanting Lineage II to remain a hardcore game. On the Nine current servers it will remain a hardcore game. The problem is that because of the way the game has been marketed over the past two years the nine main servers are now dominated by the most sadistic form of PvP players. This is not conducive to continued survival in the modern world of computer gaming. Not with the kind of server and bandwidth loads that Lineage II produces. I can only imagine that Lineage II in NA has become NCI's tax write-off. There is no other logical explanation for the way it has been mismanaged.
Without at least one casual server, and possibly as many as five, there is no way Lineage II will ever again attract enough subscribers to turn a real profit. There is no longer any reason for new players to want to come here and try the game out. With the current nature of the ingame community, there is even less reason for the few who do come here to want to stay.
And yes, this is my very own personal opinion. And no, it is not a nice one.
HIeverybody, you are wrong. You are not > him, neither is your oppinion > his. You either a) have more free time or b) have been playing longer. Your oppinions are more than welcome, and you expressing them is ok. This discussion, however, should have nothing to do with your apparently overinflated ego. It about creating a relaxed server (which already exists in L2, just not -here-) for people who are, in your words, less than you. This is an idea that has its merits, and I would personally like to test classes and setups on a relaxed server so that I could play on the "real" servers more effectively.
i think a relaxed server would be great, my little sister used to have her own account and play with me when we were both lowbies, but with her kid attention span she soon got bored of the leveling, if a relaxed server were set up i could probably coax her into reopening her account so we could play together a little again :P this wouldnt interrupt any of my leveling on my current server... but i know she would love it ^^ shes been in and out of Wow for a while now, likes the easy leveling but hates the graphics. which i completely understand. im sure she would also get her best friend to play with her as she always does, they loved playing with the diferent clothes and weapons... she even went so far as to steal my free hairchange potions from C2 (or was that C1? O.o) just to see what went best with her devotion set at the time >.> ahem but thats besides the point ... for those who dont want a relaxed server, just stay on your own :P noone will force you to move, but some others would love them and i know that much ^^ sisters... wives... that skinny kid who sat next to me in History class in highschool... etc etc
HIeverybody, please leave your opinions at the door. All of the 'hardcore' player opinions hold no weight and are incredibly illogical, being purely emotional in nature. I am glad that this old post has been revived, because it is a very important subject that needs to be discussed. The North American market NEEDS a Relaxed Play/Boosted Rates server for those casual gamers who love the game but who actually have lives that require their time. People who can't play more than a couple hours every few days.
I would love a relaxed server. But the problem I see is that all the so called hardcore gamers would move there to level up faster. Look what happened on the pts. Griefing galore. What do you do with a red who kills guards for sport?
The Korean relaxed server still has PVP but has a play limit of 30 hours week. So those people who give up sleep and a social life to play will be disapointed there.
I am looking at maybe 15 hours a week playing if my wife lets me even have that. I work for a company that builds the automated machines that make your P4 processors. I build machines that do 1 step in the process. Right now the minimum hours a week is 50. School starts agian on March 13th and we are talking 65 hours a week between the 2.
Now we are moving to an asembly line set up on the 20th thats sapposed to get us to 40 hours but I still can't grind like some. I'm sure there are many people who are working or students or bolth like me that want to enjoy the game. NCsoft should cater to them simply because it's good buisness.
HIeverybody, you are wrong. You are not > him, neither is your oppinion > his. You either a) have more free time or b) have been playing longer. Your oppinions are more than welcome, and you expressing them is ok. This discussion, however, should have nothing to do with your apparently overinflated ego. It about creating a relaxed server (which already exists in L2, just not -here-) for people who are, in your words, less than you. This is an idea that has its merits, and I would personally like to test classes and setups on a relaxed server so that I could play on the "real" servers more effectively.
Thank you. But unless HIeverybody has been playing since one of the Betas, he hasn't been playing longer than me. I started in Prelude, 3 days after the game was released. So, more than likely, he merely has more time to be waste on playing a video game. I, a casual gamer, don't have much time to devote to the game that I actually like. For some reason, though, hardcore gamers just don't seem to get that. I have a life. I do things OTHER than playing Lineage II. BUT I still LIKE the game. And I still want to PLAY the game. Hardcore gamers, for the most part, seem to think that since I don't have the time to play the game, I just shouldn't play. That is the majority of their reasoning. Yes, SirE, there have been some better arguments against the idea, but none of them have really been good at all. Only better than most.
A lax server is highly needed! The reason for farmers and ebayers is because no one has time to farm so many mats, and nobody that has a job and life outside of L2 can afford to keep up with the power levelers!
This wouldn't hurt anything...the only thing that it may hurt are those that will leave the other 9 servers almost empty...but this is just increasing the process of what will eventually happen with the game in it's current state anyway.
90% of reviews of this game speak of the god awful grind. People that like the game but can't grind find other means. If those people could play on a server that would make it possible for them to reach high end content this would increase player base. Lots of players quit when they hit about lvl 50 because they can't compete plus the leveling takes WAY TOO LONG.
Will relaxed servers still have ebayers, probally. If the relaxed server only allowed about 30 hours a week then this would stop bots in their tracks... There would have to be so many pro farmer accounts to play 30 hours and switch to another account to keep farmning. The powerlevlers that currently sit in bot groups 24/7 or bot themselves, couldn't do this anymore either.
This would make the game so much more interesting for the majority of American players, who don't generally have loads of time to waste, and the only bad thing that might happen is NCsoft will have to open more of these relax servers to accomadate a influx of casual gamers to a stunning game.
This isn't hard to program. If more than 100 private servers ran by old lineage 2 fans can do it, then so can NCsoft. As a matter of fact, this is already done in Korea.
3x XP and SP rates with 5x Adena rates, along with a 10x Spoil rate and a 3x drop rate would make this game a lot more balanced and would practically illiminate 3rd party users.
If you are opposed to it, like mentioned before...just play on your server that you are currently on... Those that leave would have left eventually anyway because they were unhappy with the games current grind and rates...so it is nobodies loss really!
Edit: BTW to all those saying why they don't want a lax server and say that there are reasons in other threads, paste and copy them into here! I know some people that have spend too much money in currency to want to leave their character...but many of us don't wanna do that!
Oh and also to HiEverybody I am 5x so I > than you!? That was rude and uncalled for! This example of extreme stupidity is why we need lax servers, there is NO respect for other players, esspecially ones that have less time to play.
Very good summery of why a lax server is needed. The only thing I disagree on is having the rates too high. I'd be happy with just the new server for a fresh start. I'd be very happy if they limit the play time and up the rates by 1.3 and 1.5 like Korea.
L2 is an awesome game with a boring grind. But I think making it 5X just kills the long term playability.
A lax server is highly needed! The reason for farmers and ebayers is because no one has time to farm so many mats, and nobody that has a job and life outside of L2 can afford to keep up with the power levelers!
nope that's bs. farmers are here because people are lazy and don't want to earn their gear. There would be e-bayers on a relaxed server as well. There are e-bayers/bots in wow and it doesn't get much more relaxed than that. That argument is just dumb so please don't use it again.
This wouldn't hurt anything...the only thing that it may hurt are those that will leave the other 9 servers almost empty...but this is just increasing the process of what will eventually happen with the game in it's current state anyway.
so you are saying that a relaxed server would hurt people?
90% of reviews of this game speak of the god awful grind. People that like the game but can't grind find other means. If those people could play on a server that would make it possible for them to reach high end content this would increase player base. Lots of players quit when they hit about lvl 50 because they can't compete plus the leveling takes WAY TOO LONG.
lvling doesn't take too long. the grind is important. It means that you've worked for where u are. I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but a lot of the high lvls did not bot their way up there. They spent time grinding.
And allowing people to play end game content without going through the grind is like typing "iddqd" and running around in doom.
Will relaxed servers still have ebayers, probally. If the relaxed server only allowed about 30 hours a week then this would stop bots in their tracks... There would have to be so many pro farmer accounts to play 30 hours and switch to another account to keep farmning. The powerlevlers that currently sit in bot groups 24/7 or bot themselves, couldn't do this anymore either.
ok this doesn't make much sense... if they only can play 30 hours that is still 30 hours of nonstop profits from farming... and people would still get powerlvld.
This would make the game so much more interesting for the majority of American players, who don't generally have loads of time to waste, and the only bad thing that might happen is NCsoft will have to open more of these relax servers to accomadate a influx of casual gamers to a stunning game.
yeah that's completely bogus.
This isn't hard to program. If more than 100 private servers ran by old lineage 2 fans can do it, then so can NCsoft. As a matter of fact, this is already done in Korea.
3x XP and SP rates with 5x Adena rates, along with a 10x Spoil rate and a 3x drop rate would make this game a lot more balanced and would practically illiminate 3rd party users.
lmao nobody thinks it would be hard to program.
If you are opposed to it, like mentioned before...just play on your server that you are currently on... Those that leave would have left eventually anyway because they were unhappy with the games current grind and rates...so it is nobodies loss really!
it is a loss to the community. Does it directly influence me if somebody on kain bots to 78/78 and ebays s-grde gear? no. Do I think he should get banned? yes. The game of L2 is not meant to be easy, and makeing it easy detracts from the entire community.
Edit: BTW to all those saying why they don't want a lax server and say that there are reasons in other threads, paste and copy them into here! I know some people that have spend too much money in currency to want to leave their character...but many of us don't wanna do that!
do your own research
Oh and also to HiEverybody I am 5x so I > than you!? That was rude and uncalled for! This example of extreme stupidity is why we need lax servers, there is NO respect for other players, esspecially ones that have less time to play.
nah I'm over 5x sry. And the examp to extreme supidity you should be looking at is the post I responded in to in which he said that if you disagree with him, your oppinion is invalid. The fact that somebody didn't quote the entire thing and you are too lazy to read the entire thread means:
A lax server is highly needed! The reason for farmers and ebayers is because no one has time to farm so many mats, and nobody that has a job and life outside of L2 can afford to keep up with the power levelers!
nope that's bs. farmers are here because people are lazy and don't want to earn their gear. There would be e-bayers on a relaxed server as well. There are e-bayers/bots in wow and it doesn't get much more relaxed than that. That argument is just dumb so please don't use it again.
This wouldn't hurt anything...the only thing that it may hurt are those that will leave the other 9 servers almost empty...but this is just increasing the process of what will eventually happen with the game in it's current state anyway.
so you are saying that a relaxed server would hurt people?
90% of reviews of this game speak of the god awful grind. People that like the game but can't grind find other means. If those people could play on a server that would make it possible for them to reach high end content this would increase player base. Lots of players quit when they hit about lvl 50 because they can't compete plus the leveling takes WAY TOO LONG.
lvling doesn't take too long. the grind is important. It means that you've worked for where u are. I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but a lot of the high lvls did not bot their way up there. They spent time grinding.
And allowing people to play end game content without going through the grind is like typing "iddqd" and running around in doom.
Will relaxed servers still have ebayers, probally. If the relaxed server only allowed about 30 hours a week then this would stop bots in their tracks... There would have to be so many pro farmer accounts to play 30 hours and switch to another account to keep farmning. The powerlevlers that currently sit in bot groups 24/7 or bot themselves, couldn't do this anymore either.
ok this doesn't make much sense... if they only can play 30 hours that is still 30 hours of nonstop profits from farming... and people would still get powerlvld.
This would make the game so much more interesting for the majority of American players, who don't generally have loads of time to waste, and the only bad thing that might happen is NCsoft will have to open more of these relax servers to accomadate a influx of casual gamers to a stunning game.
yeah that's completely bogus.
This isn't hard to program. If more than 100 private servers ran by old lineage 2 fans can do it, then so can NCsoft. As a matter of fact, this is already done in Korea.
3x XP and SP rates with 5x Adena rates, along with a 10x Spoil rate and a 3x drop rate would make this game a lot more balanced and would practically illiminate 3rd party users.
lmao nobody thinks it would be hard to program.
If you are opposed to it, like mentioned before...just play on your server that you are currently on... Those that leave would have left eventually anyway because they were unhappy with the games current grind and rates...so it is nobodies loss really!
it is a loss to the community. Does it directly influence me if somebody on kain bots to 78/78 and ebays s-grde gear? no. Do I think he should get banned? yes. The game of L2 is not meant to be easy, and makeing it easy detracts from the entire community.
Edit: BTW to all those saying why they don't want a lax server and say that there are reasons in other threads, paste and copy them into here! I know some people that have spend too much money in currency to want to leave their character...but many of us don't wanna do that!
do your own research
Oh and also to HiEverybody I am 5x so I > than you!? That was rude and uncalled for! This example of extreme stupidity is why we need lax servers, there is NO respect for other players, esspecially ones that have less time to play.
nah I'm over 5x sry. And the examp to extreme supidity you should be looking at is the post I responded in to in which he said that if you disagree with him, your oppinion is invalid. The fact that somebody didn't quote the entire thing and you are too lazy to read the entire thread means:
since you are 5x, me > U
I'm not sure why your against a new server but I can say you make a lot of BS points. It honestly doesn't effect you. You may lose a few people from your server but most invested people will stay.
The lower level people who aren't on 24/7 like you will be gone and you won't even notice.
As for farming, there will still be some but there will be less. There will be a lot lower profits to be made with a slightly higher drop rate and more cost for accounts.
As for not earning? 1.3 times the XP is still earning your levels. It's just earning at a rate that works better for people with real world lives. So you can grind it out as long as you want and even flame the relaxed server, but we won't care because we have jobs, schools and families to worry about.
It won't reduce the number of any server drasticly exept for maybe Liona. The RP server might have more come over. Remember there are 9 servers and you can't have 9 servers all the sudden on 1.
Honestly you can't control what people do with there account so it's really not your buissnes if people want to not interact with you....
Also it would definetly bring old people back. It would also bring new people in. Go to L2 non officail forums. You know how many people say "My friends play and I want to start but I heard it takes too long to level". So not only would you get disenchanted players returning but new people would join knowing the new server would have people there level and relieve there stress from L2's reputation for slow boring grinds.
you care about NCsoft profits y? are u a shareholder? if u are this isn't the proper place to adress your concerns with the company.
Do you really think that NCsoft doesn't have market research on if the thing will be profitable or not? If it is profitable, they will do it because that's how the world works. Arguing that they will make more money and have more players is meaningless. They do the research, and probobly have a pretty good idea of the potential income, so please stop telling NCsoft that it would be great for them.
Furthermore L2 is known as a game with a hardcore grind and mentality. Bots/ebaying/relaxed server all detract from this in the same way. The image and reputation of Lineage 2 would be destroyed with a relaxed server imo. Would I stop playing if they added one? I don't know. I would deffinately think a lot less of L2 and start looking into other mmogs though.
A relaxed server is like playing basketball with an 8 foot pole. It might be fun for some, but it isn't basketball anymore.
Funny there image wasn't destroyed in Korea when they opened the private server. They had 2 mil players and now they have 3 mil.
As for suggestions including ways to increase player base, this is the proper forum. Many of us suggested they add a promo code with 2 weks free access to the game when player base was dwindling. They gave very one in the game a free 2 week code to give away less then a month later.
So players suggestions do help. Remember most of the NCsoft staff is in Korea and worried about there larger Asian player base...
HIeverybody you are definately just here for a flame! First let me straightin some things out for ya!
I don't give a flying [censored] what level you are! :mad: All this means is you have more time to spend in game than me and or other players. Just that something like that was stated, I thought was very rediculas.
Restricting gameplay to 30 hours a week is lax, and generally more than enough hours for a casual gamer. No their couldn't be powerlevelers, because 30hours a week max is enough for anyone to stay in game. Sure you could sit in a bot party or whatnot for 30 hours, but the guy that plays for 24-30 hours will not be far behind or maybe even beyond you and he can ACTUALLY PLAY the game! I think safe zones shouldn't take away lax play time though, so people can still run their shops... If you play a lot more than 30 hours a week, then you play on the regular servers.
And may I ask you what reputation it would kill. I think the only reputation it would kill is the one that is in almost every review saying this is a grind simulator!!!
I agree with the other poster that my previous stated multiplyer is rather high...and should be kept at the official 1.3x, if game play time is limited, then it wouldn't matter.
Oh and the comment about bots and ebayers. Yes the bots will be there, but one bot can't grind for 24/7 for 7 months to be sold later or to sell adena...catch my drift...there would have to be multiple accounts for each one set up for 30 hours each.
You asked why someone would care about NCsofts profits, well mainly because if a game doesn't make profit it dies. Granted korea makes most of it, but why not make more...to increase development! Maybe if we actually started to bring in some revenue for NCsoft they may actually listen to NA a bit instead of just pushing us under the carpet...
Sounds like you are afraid of change... So, don't change stay where you are, if you enjoy the large time consuming grind...well good...it isn't gonna dissapear for you. But for new players when the majority of the population is lvl 65+ the game isn't so fun. A new server will bring fresh blood, old fans, and current casual gamers that will eventually quit because they will always be the lowbie...
I say this is a GREAT idea, and NCsoft would be making a correct move if they did this. Players have been asking for a more 'American Friendly' server since before C1!
Unfortunately, the ungodly grind of this game has already caused MANY pro-relaxed server players to quit, and that was pre-C1 even. Likely before HIEverybody even started playing. There have been requests for a relaxed server on the forums since waaay back then, and they will never go away. HIEverybody is an example of the type of player I can't stand: he thinks his way is the only way and that we should either be forced to accept it or we should get out of his game.
I'm sorry, but I pay for this game also. I pay for 3 accounts. I have just as much a voice here as he does, if not more.
Perhaps my initial argument was incorrect; everyone has the right to their respective opinions, and most opinions could not be considered invalid. I do, however, believe that certain types of arguments on this particular topic are purely an ego issue and not appropriate. Especially the arguments stating that Lineage 2 is a "hardcore" game therefore only "hardcore" players deserve to enjoy any of the end-game content. That is purely ego talking; players who have more time to invest (IE, people with less responsibilities than your average joe, or people who choose to have no social life outside of gaming) seem to think that somehow makes them "hardcore" and thus better than the rest of us.
I swear, some of the worst types of people I have EVER seen play in this game. It has completely changed my outlook on humanity. Never before have I seen such hate in a GAME. We're supposed to be playing this game together, not against one another. It's supposed to be rivalry, not hatred. We're supposed to be opponents, not enemies.
But, oh well, that's all a case for another rant, in another thread. :)
A relaxed server is the same as cheating to get to endgame. No better than those who buy adena or bot, but now NCsoft supports it. The grind is what causes politics in this game. Without it the game would be terrible. The grind is why there is a community for L2 unlike other mmogs. By the time you hit 75/75 you have spent 1000s of hours with people and friendships are built and enemies are created.
L2 on a relaxed server destroys what L2 is, and haveing NCsoft support that is just terrible. If people can't take the grind, they should quit. Not because I have some kinda ego problem, but because this game was built around the grind. Because so many have passed throguh it. It is what lineage 2 is for better or for worse, and to cut it out would be heresy.
I loathe to say this but I agree with the main point of this post. The extensive grinding is what builds the politics. I guess this is why I was so disgusted with PTS. People were given high level toons and the only excuse to fight they could come up with was what server you were from. Rediculous.
imo... people that play this game show exactly what they true are in real life..
It shows who takes full advantage of situations.. be it for good or bad... for only thier own greed or for everyones benifit... shows you cowardly, smart, stupid, aware, innocent...
omg, i've ran into complete jerks.. and they feel they are doing justice in saying "it's just a game"... although it's true... that idea could easily be compared to just about anything else that is just as terrible. someone could shoot a dog for no apparent reason and just say "it's just a dog".. or smash a window and say "it's just a window" or run over someones leg and say "it's just a leg".... hell i've heard someone say on the news "It's just one person" (whom they've killled)... how far does it go? imo pretty sad....
sure there are people that just screw around and releive stress.. but i've ran into more people that i could considering phycotic and should be in a mental padded cell
And for many people that still is a lot of time to put into a game. How about those that can just play 3-4 hours on weekends, and maybe an hour or two during the week...
It isn't the same as ebaying or botting. There is no involvement with a 3rd party program. NCsoft dosen't support bots and ebaying because it is "bad"! They don't support it because it is a 3rd party program...
The multiplier would only be increased slightly, not even 2x. I think it was increased by 1.3x on NCsofts other relaxed servers. It isn't the same as current servers with increased rates...it just caps off the hours you can play per week. This makes it so that you can even build STRONGER relationships because people will be around the same levels instead of those that somehow can manage to play 24/7 for a few weeks...
The game will be the same, just more suited for different game styles. There should be no oposition for this really, because those that like to play the game how the currently do, still can... You can still play on your same ol' server.
HIeverybody just sounds like he is afraid that he will be forced to start all over again because he "knows" the grind is insane and he knows that other people, maybe even his friends, don't like it. But I am sure not everyone will give up their character to play on the new type of server, because there are a few people that think like you HIeverybody...you will still have them.
If you are a so called "hardcore" gamer, you shouldn't even be in this discussion because it doesn't even have anything to do with your play style.
Lets hear about people that actually want this idea, not those that are afraid of it...
How about those that can just play 3-4 hours on weekends, and maybe an hour or two during the week...
Should play tetris, mmo's require a degree of dedication and people who mock others because they feel they play too much are sad themselves.
I worry that as youve said if this server came into play people would just ditch live for it, spend their 25 hours grinding then use free time in arenas and towns and what not, and still be able to play 24/7 with boosted rates.
How about those that can just play 3-4 hours on weekends, and maybe an hour or two during the week...
Should play tetris, mmo's require a degree of dedication and people who mock others because they feel they play too much are sad themselves.
Whoa... no and not quite but "yes".
Just because someone can only play 3-4 hours per week doesn't mean that they shouldn't seek out or even suggest that game companies seek other ways of doing it.
Remember, one of the reason that these games are the way they are is becuase the first successful ones were set up this way.
Suppose the very first successful online game was something like Guild Wars. And then, several years down the line, someone came up with the idea to eliminate instances, keep everything open, have some looting and open pvp etc. You would see people saying "that is not how it's done because it is done 'this way'"
It's sort of like the companies that scream "we must think outside the box" but the reality is they have no concept of what that means let alone the risks and rewards it brings.
If online game companies can make games that cater to a variety of players it is a much better investment for them.
As far as people who then say 'if you play 40 hours per week you have no life', well, that's a crock too.
Who has no life, the person who plays 40 hours per week in an online social game or the person who holes themselves up in the library every chance they can get to read? Or the person who spends 50 hours per week (or more) at a demanding job only to come home and spend the entire week working on the house?
One cannot make these judgements because it is so much more complex.
Again, I find it very interesting that people can't accept the fact that there are different types of people. Heck... there are different types of music, clothes, fonts... must mean that there are different types of people.
To make a game and then to completely change it under the noses of the players can be a very bad thing (look at Star Wars Galaxies).
But to look at a game and say "hey... we have a product that is enjoyable to a segment of the gaming population. How can we bring it to a larger segment of that population and still maintain our original vision?"
Remember, the costs to develope these games rises yearly. Part of that is because of inflation but part of that is that players demand a different experience. If this was a MUD then the costs would be quite different when compared to what it took to build L2 as it is now.
The game has an appeal to a wide variety of people but some of the basic ideas just don't work for certain people. So, what can be done?
Well, just create different gameplay experiences, one for more hardcore players and one for more casual. Or for people who don't like open pvp or for people who want more hardcore pvp.
It's not like other games haven't done this. There are games that have pvp server, non pvp servers and even roleplay servers.
The problem is that people are thinking that if someone else who has an opposing viewpoint "wins" then they "lose". The reality (at least my opinion of what the reality is) is that everyyone wins.
More people playing the game means more subscribers which means more money which means more events, greater depth to each chronicle and greater longevity to the game.
So what if someone is playing an incarnation of the game that is different from what you play? As long as it offers a different gameplay experience then there is no issue.
NC's relaxed servers control the amount of time one plays so you can't be a 50-60 hour a week person but reap the benefits of the raised xp and drops. It does allow people who can only play a few hours a week to actually do something that is meaningful.
I remember someone once saying that if you only made 2% per hour lvling then you were wasting your time and might as well not even leave the city.
Well, imagine if you only had a few hours to play the game and feeling that you just were not making any headway.
The people who do have time to have extended play are going to outlevel you. You are going to get frustrated and eventually go to another game.
So who wins? No one really. You will have servers where only hardcore people reside, a smaller population and less money coming in.
So again... maintain your playerbase by offering different flavors of the game and you will keep the game alive, word will spread, and you will attract more of each type of player.
It really is win win.
The only (and I mean ONLY) reason not to have a relaxed server is if the developers have figured out their costs and just maintain that this is the game they have envisioned and they can sustain themselves well enough being a boutique game and that is fine with them.
Sort of like companies who make Rolls Royce cars or even Apple computer. They have their customers, they would like more but can work with what they have in order to bring a unique experience to a select few who share the same vision.
In that case what will happen is that you will always be in a niche market. Nothing wrong with that but it is what it is.
And, if that is the case, then you will always have a smaller limit as far as playerbase. Remember, not everyone shares the vision of "the more arduous the better". Players who realize that this is not their game will move on. They will. It is only a matter of time and what game catches their eye.
And of course, to reiterate, if one can play 60 hours per week and still be clean, buy food, function in society then they are not lesser people. No lesser than people who decide that they want to raise families or those who grow Orchids for 40-60 hours per week. :)
Whoa you made an essay outa 2 sentances o.O impressive.
I dont like casual players playing lineage, they dont understand the game and when they end up in the same clans as me it really ticks me off. They leach, ask noob questions and moan about how slow the grind is, if you havent got the time to play why should they get special boosts?
On the other hand, SPS, they'd all flock to the relaxed server and quit annoying you...
THANK YOU!!!
Exactly, you don't like these so called, "casual gamers" well then you should really really want a lax server so that they can go there, and that certain types of gamers can play togeather.
The current ones will be the hardcore gamers, so that it will have that hardcore vs hardcore concept...
Lax servers will have a "casual gamer" aspect where casual gamers can compete agains casual gamers.
The point of a game is to play it and enjoy yourself. For a casual gamer surrounded by hardcore gamers this is very hard because they will out level you.
Sure what Sov, said is correct...if you are hardcore and play 60 hours a week or something and their is a guy that can't do that because he has to work 60 hours a week...I guess there really is no difference. Granted the guy that works 60 hours a week probally has a lot of responsibility to his work, family, himself...and needs to work that much in order to maintain his standard of living. Whereas there are many people that don't need to work so much and will have time for video games.
You do realize that ebay and whatnot is so popular because the "casual" gamers are trying to keep up with the "hardcore gamers" Instead of farming, buying, and selling mats to craft, they just spend $20 out of their 60hour a week paycheck and ta'da...no problem... This is where the game is highly flawed, and that is why we need a lax server for those with less game time. As for casual players like me, whom go to college, I don't have money nor time, so this would be even better. Do I care that I am super low level and can only play about 10-12 hours a week (which sometimes is still too much, and gets in the way of academics), no not so much...but would I like to be able to experience equal lvl pvp and seiges. Have a more uniform level range of clan members so we can do raids and large xp parties...yes I would love this...this would make the game 50% more fun for me.
Like mentioned before, it is win win situation. The hardcore players get to play with the players they like to play with and the causual with the ones they like... Sounds like a good deal to me. Most casual players just quit anyway because people tell them things like, "Go play WoW noob, you can't handed killing 3402984 mobs for 40 hours...to gain XP..." Most casual gamers just leave this game for other games or private servers where they can at least be somewhere around the level range of other players.
I will say, however, that unless the "hardcore" servers had things that were available to them and not the "casual" servers, there would be no point for most people to be anywhere but the "casual"...or, to put it more simply, there needs to be a reason to be putting in that extra effort or nobody will want to do it.
Whether or not they should exist, if they did exist, they would only work if there were enjoyable aspects to the game that became unavailable.
Well the hardcore servers would have more grind, and unrestricted game time play to level up your toon.
I think everything should exist as the same, except for the amount of time played.
So you play the regular servers if you wanna play L2 more than 30 hours a week. Really if everyone decided to leave to go to the relaxed server, then you would know their is a flaw in the game because people really don't want to play it that much anymore.
The mulitplyer rates would be such that (very generic example with no definate calculation) it would take someone to get to 1-40 on the regular servers 100 hours. If that person tried really hard they could get there within 4-5 days. On the lax server it will take about 95 hours to get to 1-40...but it will take about 3-4 weeks...if they maxed out the total playing time of 30 hours a week... So that would be the advantage of playing on the regular unrelaxed servers. If you have more time to devote, you can level faster in all reality...
Really if everyone decided to leave to go to the relaxed server, then you would know their is a flaw in the game because people really don't want to play it that much anymore.
Unfortunately that doesn't work. If there is no difference in reward between doing things an easy way and a hard way, who takes the hard way? The occasional person, but definitely not many people.
Let me put this a different way...
How many people on the PTS actually did the second-class-change quests instead of talking to the cats once? Few.
Does that prove there's a flaw with the live servers' class-change quests? Of course not!
I's just human nature to take the easy way when all other considerations are equal. If there's not even some fairly trivial inequality, there's no point.
There would need to be some sort of crowning achievement to the "hardcore" servers, otherwise they would be grossly underpopulated. It doesn't need to be much, just something like "Antharas only spawns on Hardcore"...it's not so much that there needs to be an everyday difference, but some sort of achievement that's only possible to the Hardcore player, so that psychologically he can justify doing more work for the same reward, even if it's only to himself.
Also, I think you're kind of overestimating the "hardcore" crowd...for example, I need to correct this:
it would take someone to get to 1-40 on the regular servers 100 hours. If that person tried really hard they could get there within 4-5 days.
...there are only 24 hours in a day. Playing 100 hours in 4 days, no matter how hard you try, is only going to be possible if you're breaking the laws of physics.
Sure what Sov, said is correct...if you are hardcore and play 60 hours a week or something and their is a guy that can't do that because he has to work 60 hours a week...I guess there really is no difference. Granted the guy that works 60 hours a week probally has a lot of responsibility to his work, family, himself...and needs to work that much in order to maintain his standard of living. Whereas there are many people that don't need to work so much and will have time for video games.
Funny you say that. They announced Wednesday were are pulling one more 10 a week for at least 2 weeks. Friday saturday is ussualy my weekend. Now it's just friday....
But I don't do it to increase my standard of living. Between my school and what I learn from this job I wont have to worry about that.
I'm taking a break from school untill we go to the lean line set up and get caught up building tools.
Whoa you made an essay outa 2 sentances o.O impressive.
hmmm... I do tend to do that don't I? Must be careful else I put an eye out! :eek:
And Bekkar has a good point, there needs to be something on a more "hardcore" server that a relaxed server doesn't have. Some sort of incentive. Sure, the hardcore players might get to play as much as they want but is that really an incentive? Especially since the Relaxed Server is in existence because those players can't play so many hours anyway.
here it is...
Maybe the Hardcore servers get to submit people for a Tournament. That is something NC should be having anyway. But maybe they should have some sort of ladder competition open to people of the regular servers. Since L2 is more group pvp oriented it could be entered by clans.
Also, very cool Amborix... that is some interesting stuff.
I feel that this should <at least> sit on the back burner until they get their most destructive problems out of the way.
In other words, along with my original reply: Tend to the more universal problems before creating a relaxed server that would require far far more reprogramming than would usually be involved in this topic... (relaxed pvp server wahwah)
I'll go ahead and keep out of the topic. :)
How hard is it to tweak EXP/SP/Adena/Drop rates? They do it at will on the PTS. That would be the only difference between relaxed/regular servers.
I agree that adding a relaxed server should not be at the expense of improving the existing servers. But I don't see where it would be that big of a deal.
That's what I love about PS's. They have x25 drop rates etc... Makes it so much easier and just simply more relaxing. Can come home from a hard days work and not even really bother with exping. It will still take you a decent while to get to level 73 but at the same time you would also still have to work hard for your stuff.
I don't see how they expect you to pay for everything now.
Heavy A-Grade nightmare set... 140 M
Dragon Slayer Sword +3- 65 M
+health enchant on dragon slayer sword- 56 M
A Grade Jew set- 30 M+
A-Grade SS's when going to hunt- 1.2 M
Hunting one night not getting sleep- Making 1.5 M
It's just hard. Of course, I craft and stuff to get extra adena...but still come on. It's so hard to get adena on L2. A more relaxed server would be really fun to play on...so I agree with this post that we should have another server for fun.
X 5 X 5 X 5 X 5 X 5
Let me put this a different way...
How many people on the PTS actually did the second-class-change quests instead of talking to the cats once? Few.
Does that prove there's a flaw with the live servers' class-change quests? Of course not!
Actually, you're wrong. The reason people didn't want to do them is because they are FAR too long, tedious, and just plain not fun. There IS a problem with them, and EVERYONE who refused to do them agrees with that point.
Anyway, important points have been made on this topic, in this thread. It can't hurt NCSoft to cater to a larger audience. In fact, it can only HELP them if it makes the game more playable to more people. If it gets them more subscribers, it gets them more money.
As for giving people some sort of special incentive to play on the non-relaxed servers; that's discrimination, pure and simple. They already have incentive enough - they are not restricted to 30 hours per week maximum playtime. So those "hardcore" gamers on the regular servers who have all the time in the world to play can spend all the time they want doing whatever they want, whereas the casual players on the relaxed server have to stop once they've hit 30 hours. That in itself is enough. They don't need anything else. To give them something more would insinuate that they are worth more as subscribers, which is not true at all.
"Hardcore" gamers need to get off their **** high-horses and stop acting like they're better than the casual gamers. Because you are not.
Let me put this a different way...
How many people on the PTS actually did the second-class-change quests instead of talking to the cats once? Few.
Does that prove there's a flaw with the live servers' class-change quests? Of course not!
Actually, you're wrong. The reason people didn't want to do them is because they are FAR too long, tedious, and just plain not fun.
Don't post your opinion as fact. I enjoyed some of mine. I found parts of some of them challenging and educational.
Elro already made the point about quests, so I'll move along.
that's discrimination, pure and simple.
The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.
Why yes, yes it is. It's making a distinction between people who play casually and people who put out extra effort. Explain again how it's a bad thing to have some small reward for people who work harder, because I'm not seeing it.
We don't have to take anything away from the casual gamer's everday playing experience--in fact, I specifically said not to, so you're fighting a straw man here. However, the idea of some sort of extra option for the people who put more effort into the game is not cheating the casual player, it's rewarding the hard worker.
Or, if you meant "discrimination" in the real-world legal sense...well first, you're using the word wrong...but honestly you don't want to go there, you'll ruin your own point. The real world is rife with similar situations that are good things. College springs to mind :p
IMO, there will never be a relaxed NA server. The reason? It would appeal too much to too many western L2 players. As a consequence the other servers would suffer in population. There would also be no massive number of additional farmer/bot accounts, which would make it uneconomical.
There would also be no massive number of additional farmer/bot accounts, which would make it uneconomical.
Don't be so naive to think that people wouldn't cheat on a relaxed server. They cheated (and in large numbers) on both C3 and C4 PTS with boosted rates.
There would also be no massive number of additional farmer/bot accounts, which would make it uneconomical.
Don't be so naive to think that people wouldn't cheat on a relaxed server. They cheated (and in large numbers) on both C3 and C4 PTS with boosted rates.
I wasn't talking about average joe cheater that bots. I meant the added bonus of getting a huge number of professional adena farmer/bot accounts on every server. Their huge number is only possible because the game is hardcore to the bone.
Let me put this a different way...
How many people on the PTS actually did the second-class-change quests instead of talking to the cats once? Few.
Does that prove there's a flaw with the live servers' class-change quests? Of course not!
Actually, you're wrong. The reason people didn't want to do them is because they are FAR too long, tedious, and just plain not fun.
Don't post your opinion as fact. I enjoyed some of mine. I found parts of some of them challenging and educational.
SirE, did I say that everyone felt that way? No, but if you kept up with the complaints on the PTS forums, you'd know that many, MANY people felt that way. In fact, just to set you straight, I didn't really care if I had to do them or not; they don't bother me. So, I'm not posting MY opinion as fact. Instead, I am merely pointing out an observation I made on the PTS boards regarding this issue.
Why yes, yes it is. It's making a distinction between people who play casually and people who put out extra effort. Explain again how it's a bad thing to have some small reward for people who work harder, because I'm not seeing it.
We don't have to take anything away from the casual gamer's everday playing experience--in fact, I specifically said not to, so you're fighting a straw man here. However, the idea of some sort of extra option for the people who put more effort into the game is not cheating the casual player, it's rewarding the hard worker.
There is a difference between someone putting in extra effort in a given situation and someone merely having MORE TIME to devote to that situation. And then there comes the issue of botting and other forms of cheating. How do you distinguish between the players who are actually 'putting in extra effort' and those who just have no responsibilities, no life, and all the time in the world, or those who are just cheating to get to the top? How do you determine who gets the rewards?
Exactly. You can't. Besides, a casual gamer may put in JUST AS MUCH EFFORT as a so-called "hardcore" player, only given much less time than said player. So, again, if you have Player A who puts in 110% for the 2 hours per day that he has to play and Player B who puts in 110% for the 15 hours per day that he has to play, who is putting in more "effort"?
Besides, I still do not have any idea how a Relaxed Server would harm any of the "hardcore" players. I just don't see it.
Let me put this a different way...
How many people on the PTS actually did the second-class-change quests instead of talking to the cats once? Few.
Does that prove there's a flaw with the live servers' class-change quests? Of course not!
Actually, you're wrong. The reason people didn't want to do them is because they are FAR too long, tedious, and just plain not fun.
Don't post your opinion as fact. I enjoyed some of mine. I found parts of some of them challenging and educational.
SirE, did I say that everyone felt that way? No, but if you kept up with the complaints on the PTS forums, you'd know that many, MANY people felt that way. In fact, just to set you straight, I didn't really care if I had to do them or not; they don't bother me. So, I'm not posting MY opinion as fact. Instead, I am merely pointing out an observation I made on the PTS boards regarding this issue.
No where did you say "this is my opinion..." or "a majority feel this way..."
You, of all people, should know that people complain more than praise. One of my best friends is in marketing and he told me that if you get good service at a place, you generally will tell 1 person. If you get bad service, you'll tell 13. Do the math.
There is a difference between someone putting in extra effort in a given situation and someone merely having MORE TIME to devote to that situation.
No, there really isn't. If I spend 20 hours playing and you spend 15, I have put in more effort than you have. The fact that 15 is the maximum you could possibly invest, due to your outside commitments, has no bearing whatsoever on how much energy you put into the game.
And then there comes the issue of botting and other forms of cheating. How do you distinguish between the players who are actually 'putting in extra effort' and those who just have no responsibilities, no life, and all the time in the world, or those who are just cheating to get to the top? How do you determine who gets the rewards?
Exactly. You can't.
Are you seriously saying that bots are the reason to scrap that suggestion? Do you have any idea how counterproductive that is?
Bots benefit from a system that allows you to spend more time and energy, so we shouldn't have a system that rewards you for spending more time and energy.
Bots benefit from a system that allows you to run quests, so we shouldn't have a system that rewards you for running quests.
Bots benefit from a system that allows you to spoil, so we shouldn't have a system that rewards you for spoiling.
Bots benefit from a system that allows you to move, so we shouldn't have a system that rewards you for moving.
Scrapping a suggestion for the sole reason that it would also benefit botters is absurd, which is why you don't see NC ever doing it.
Besides, a casual gamer may put in JUST AS MUCH EFFORT as a so-called "hardcore" player, only given much less time than said player. So, again, if you have Player A who puts in 110% for the 2 hours per day that he has to play and Player B who puts in 110% for the 15 hours per day that he has to play, who is putting in more "effort"?
1.1*2 = 2.2
1.1*15 = 16.5
16.5-2.2 = 14.3
Player B, by 14.3 hours worth of energy...or, if you prefer, 650% more energy invested.
Besides, I still do not have any idea how a Relaxed Server would harm any of the "hardcore" players. I just don't see it.
90% of the so-called hardcore players would move to the relaxed server to reap the benefits, unless they had a reason why they shouldn't.
That's the problem.
It doesn't harm them so much as make the "time-unlimited" servers largely pointless.
I'm not a casual player, but if we're counting per-account and not counting time in town (which is how it works), then I wouldn't have trouble working within the 30-hour limit. Most people I know wouldn't have much trouble with it, once they adjusted their tactics accordingly.
The idea isn't to punish the casual player. I have not suggested anything even remotely like that, although it seems to be the source of your venom.
What I am saying is that, if there is no difference between the "unlimited" and the "30-hour with bonuses" servers, practically nobody will play the unlimited server.
90% of the so-called hardcore players would move to the relaxed server to reap the benefits, unless they had a reason why they shouldn't.
They have a reason: They can't play more than 30 hours a week. For said 15-hour-per-day gamer, mentioned above, that's only 2 days worth of play and then he can't do anything until next week. The "hardcore" gamers wouldn't go to those servers because they couldn't play as much as they wanted to. Only a fraction of those players would take the time to move to a time-limited server and 'adjust their tactics,' as you so put it. Do you honestly think that the "hardcore" addicts of this game could put it down? No, they'd stay on the unlimited servers.
So there is no problem. The casual gamer gets their benefits and the hardcore gamer keeps his benefits.
Actually, around 4 hours 17 minutes per day, every day, per account (multi-boxing), since you like specific math so much. To be clear, though, I've never said that I believed the majority of the players are "hardcore." However, in all likelyhood, the majority of the high-level players are "hardcore" and probably do play more than 5 hours per day, every day. The players that are high-level that don't play that often are either extremely long-term players (having been playing since Beta on the same characters) or got their levels by cheating (either botting, PLing, or otherwise manipulating the system).
Thanks, I just wanted to know. You have a very different definition of "hardcore vs. casual" and it was leading to a bit of confusion.
By your measure, most characters that aren't high level, and characters that are high-level but have been around since the game was released, are all likely to be "casual" while the "hardcore" players are confined largely to the high-level characters who have multiple alts and/or haven't been here a year yet.
So about what fraction of the server do you think is "hardcore"? That seems like a pretty small group.
Ok I don't think fighting between hardcore and casual gamers is getting far. The fact is most hardcore won't move just because of there high level too. 1.3X xp will never be enough of a bonus to make a 60+ start again.
Not to mention at 1.5 times Adena most people still wont get top gear. Saying you don't want us to have a relaxed server because you feel were not "earning" our reward is got to be one of the most immature comments I've ever heard.
Basically what were saying is we like gaming. We like Lineage2. We want to be able to play and experience the best parts. We want a server tailored to this large portion of the market. It's a business decision for NC soft and not really the business of people who don't want to play it.
I'm sure there will be people who spend every available hour to level just so they can be top of new server. But I think most will stay put. I would like the community of people who had important things in RL a lot better too......
Saying you don't want us to have a relaxed server because you feel were not "earning" our reward is got to be one of the most immature comments I've ever pretended to hear.
Fixed that for you.
I never used that reason and it's rather pathetic to pretend I did.
No it's defiently immature and pathetic. To be mad and flame on this thread because you don't want casual players to have there own server?
I have not been mad in a single post...although I'm now annoyed.
I have not flamed a single time, although my response to you will end with one (ironic?).
I have never said I don't want casual players to have their own server, in fact I think it would be a good idea to make several.
Amborix, you are a liar. I have never said a single one of the things you just accused me of. Why on earth are you even wasting everyone's time with such obvious BS? I genuinely don't see what you're trying to accomplish here.
I'ts pathetic to even care if we get a server. It's immature to come flame over it and make up lame exuses.
I do care--I think it would be a good idea, if it were properly designed. Is that pathetic? Should I apologize for caring?
Flame? Excuses? I've done no such things, you're making this crap up to support your own petty designs.
Flame: "immature and pathetic"? Look in the mirror, little liar.
Saying you don't want us to have a relaxed server because you feel were not "earning" our reward is got to be one of the most immature comments I've ever pretended to hear.
Fixed that for you.
I never used that reason and it's rather pathetic to pretend I did.
I'm pretty sure I said it at one point. ^^
oh... relaxed servers are the same as cheating... draconic bow has focus... you should be able to learn skills while red...
Actually I was talking about SPS's post not yours. As for relaxed servers cheating... that ridicules. Most of NCsofts competitors have relaxed servers.
They also have non-pvp servers. Is it cheating to want to level and not get ganked if your an RPer? So we are all cheaters since they upped drops in C2? Drops aren't as hard core as they used to be....
Actually I was talking about SPS's post not yours. As for relaxed servers cheating... that ridicules. Most of NCsofts competitors have relaxed servers.
They also have non-pvp servers. Is it cheating to want to level and not get ganked if your an RPer? So we are all cheaters since they upped drops in C2? Drops aren't as hard core as they used to be....
well they did lower them in c3...
Other games aren't L2. L2 is more of a niche game. It is like that 100$ bottle of wine... it isn't for everybody, and searving boxed wine and claiming it is from 100$ bottle of wine... well it's cheating if u are competing for something. ^^ otherwise it is just wrong.
I'm going to have to disagree with your choice of metaphores. L2 is far from a fine wine. If any thing the Korean set up of this game makes it Mad Dog 20/20 to most western players.
You can call it cheating all you want. Just because you don't want us to have a server for us. You want to feel uber and superior to people who don't play all the freaking time. Fact is you earned nothing. You just spend more time playing a game.
A relaxed server will go a long way to people who ONLY PLAY AS A HOBBY!!!! It's a freaking game. We pay for our own accounts and want a server for people like us. The only negative NCsoft should consider is cost. Are there enough who want it? Will enough people join the game just to play there?
I'm going to have to disagree with your choice of metaphores. L2 is far from a fine wine. If any thing the Korean set up of this game makes it Mad Dog 20/20 to most western players.
You can call it cheating all you want. Just because you don't want us to have a server for us. You want to feel uber and superior to people who don't play all the freaking time. Fact is you earned nothing. You just spend more time playing a game.
A relaxed server will go a long way to people who ONLY PLAY AS A HOBBY!!!! It's a freaking game. We pay for our own accounts and want a server for people like us. The only negative NCsoft should consider is cost. Are there enough who want it? Will enough people join the game just to play there?
Have fun living in your 24/7 Lineage 2 world. I hope some day you learn what a real life is for your sake. Must be very sad to have all of your achievments in computer pixels.
Fact is you earned nothing. You just spend more time playing a game.
I'm going to disagree with this quote, and only this part. Spending more time in an MMO is, by their design, "earning" more in the game...especially an MMO like this one. They're designed to be, regardless of how much time per day you spend, like a second "you"...and time spent (over the years) for different goals is a form of currency, redeemed for advantages in the game.
I'm going to have to disagree with your choice of metaphores. L2 is far from a fine wine. If any thing the Korean set up of this game makes it Mad Dog 20/20 to most western players.
You can call it cheating all you want. Just because you don't want us to have a server for us. You want to feel uber and superior to people who don't play all the freaking time. Fact is you earned nothing. You just spend more time playing a game.
A relaxed server will go a long way to people who ONLY PLAY AS A HOBBY!!!! It's a freaking game. We pay for our own accounts and want a server for people like us. The only negative NCsoft should consider is cost. Are there enough who want it? Will enough people join the game just to play there?
Well, the way I look at it is "First off, the game is what it is". Anyone knowing anything about the game or doing any research will learn the "ins and outs" of L2.
So, even though the grind is hard or the open pvp is such that people can get ganked we play knowing and at least tacitly accepting those rules.
However, this does not mean that people can't ask for something different. They might not be in the position to demand it since the game's info is known if one looks and this is how they chose to release it here.
But Companies do listen to their playerbase sometimes and do make concessions. Look at the show "The Family Guy". People wrote in and complained so Fox took it off the air. Then, when they decided to release it on DVD, they discovered that there was a huge market for it so they brought it back.
As I've said before, if the developers really have it in their heads that our version is the version that they really want to present then so be it.
But, if they are open to having a relaxed server and if they can get enough people interested they might do it. They did it for L1.
Is a relaxed server cheating? No. The rules that govern it are different from the regular servers. You have limited time. Or, if it is a "no pvp" server then you can only pvp in arenas or sieges etc. You can't "cheat" when you are playing by the rules of the environment. As far as "cheating" or having and advantage over other servers, look at it this way. Players on a relaxed server will be able to make faster advances in a short amount of time but because of the time limits will most likely not be able to advance their characters any faster then if they were on the regular servers. This is what I think opponents do not realize.
The regular servers might lose players if they implement this. That is true. Doesn't mean they will suffer greatly but they will lose players. Sure, some people play on different servers but I think that the majority are interested in staying on one server if they can help it.
Now, we do seem to have a lot of full servers so this might just serve to alleviate that type of pressure.
If the regular servers lost most of their playerbase however then that could be worse for the game.
I am all for a relaxed server or even an alternate rules server but one must think of the long term consequences. I do think it will attract other types of players. But, if the regular servers suffer too much then that would not be in the interest of NC Soft.
And it's one of those things where once they do it they will be hard pressed to reverse it. We have many more chronicles left and many more years of the game to come. No one knows what will happen, who will be here etc.
I would think that anything that attracts more players is a good thing. If they were to do this they might have to allow transfers between the other servers so they could balance some of the population due to any sharp losses.
Have fun living in your 24/7 Lineage 2 world. I hope some day you learn what a real life is for your sake. Must be very sad to have all of your achievments in computer pixels.
You know what NCsoft should do? Post a poll on the issue. So we can see the demand for the server with out ******s coming to try and drive people off the thread.
I personaly think the poll should read whether or not you would prefure to play on a relaxed server. But I don't think there is enough opposition to matter.
So Mistryl can we get a poll PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
One thing I would add is that they put an access control list in to only allow north american IP's... this would prevent some problems of overcrowing by reducing the number of illegitmate players if you know what I mean ( can't say the other word otherwise they lock topic >.<)
I personaly think the poll should read whether or not you would prefure to play on a relaxed server.
People in general, and frankly the section of the population corresponding to gamers specifically, are notoriously terrible at anticipating their own long-term desires. Seriously.
It's not the same thing as a relaxed server, but this might illustrate why that poll would be useless information--try this poll instead: "Who would like their current experience and adena totals to be multiplied by 20?" It would pass in a heartbeat, wouldn't it? Think of all that grinding you'd skip...
...it would also doom the game overnight. A month later, rebilling would be cancelling on more and more accounts until only a skeleton group was left.
A relaxed server isn't the same thing as an instant bonus. It is, however, a highly-similar option in that it looks good when advertised but is likely to harm the game in the long run and, ironically, make even the original supporters of the idea less likely to be repeat customers.
I would very much like to see this. Many believe it would trivialize their accomplishments in this game, so I believe that it must be handled carefully. It definately would lure more players here from other casual games, and that would be good for everyone. But the "Grind" of this game is it's foundation, the accomplishments of a player are hard won and appreciated because of that fact. Hard won through time sunk into it, that is; It's certainly not a skill based game, or even balanced when you compare required time spent leveling among the different classes. So is it possible to create a more casual Lineage 2, without completely recreating the ****ed game? :(