More than once, I've seen posters use multiple forum accounts to try to make their arguments look stronger, or just to cause trouble. I can see it immediately and verify it on the back end, but, as there's no real rule against it, there's not a ton of action I can take unless the poster breaks another one of the specific rules. I understand that there are many households with multiple accounts, and I'd hate to get involved in a legitimate marital squabble, but I'm not often moved to check IPs, and when I am, it's usually because it's clear that there's one person behind all the posts. I'm curious to hear what the community thinks about this situation - how would y'all react to a "One forum account per person" type rule, with the understanding that I have far better things to do than enforce it unless someone actually makes a nuisance of themself.
A new rule to slightly cut down on spamming, flamewars, and pointless drama, but that won't affect the vast majority of posters at all?
Sounds good to me.
People do this? That's soooo very sad. Wow, I would never consider doing that in a million years. Sheesh. I think if they are making a nuisance of themselves they should be dealt with.
Mmm I'd say save your time and go hunt down some devs to answer the "real important questions" asked here. ;)
Using multiple accounts -on a game forum- to make your own point appear more accepted or supported or whatever... that's just pathetic. :) Unless the poster really disturbes the boards, why bother.
I don't use that myself, other than my secret uber-superbuffer account. I don't really care much, I guess you could take it that each account is a 13 bucks to say your piece on this forum.
It would be kinda sad for someone to do, but I don't think there should be anything specifically done about it.
All I care about is that my friend Arigato's accont get unbanned >< he was banned for very dumb resons way back, still they havent even gave him a chans to return yet... and yes he's still playing. And he shurly should have the right to get his forum accont back. Plz lock into it!
I feel to use multiple account to make post is a very stupid thing to do in the first place, whether he do it for the right reason it is not important.
This is because the information being potrayed in the thread is no longer accurate and does not reflect the sentiment of the community but only the poster himself.
In my opinion, the Official Forum should either impose the restriction of having one forum account peg to each game account/email.
how on earth would you inforce such a rule, there are so many holes and "ifs and maybes"
I COULD use my buff bot's account to post on here to make my arguement stronger , which i don't think is techically breaking any rule except i guess "cheating" in the sense of public discussion.
On the flip side I COULD be living with multiple people (i.e my mom, Roomates , brothers , sisters) who play lineage, which in my case are roomates. Currently i have 2 roomates who have Lineage 2 accounts and 1 with a Guild war account, I am the main board warrior in the house hold but they do read my posts and other discussions from various locations, and sometimes we have discussions about it, if they agree or disagree they may feel inclined to reply to agree with me.
I think this idea should be crumpled up and have a flame thrower taken to it because it seems it will only bring more harm than actual good.
If you limit one account per email, so what? I have about 10 emails, anyone can get an email in under a minute.
If you go by ips, etc, you rule out more then one person per family being able to use the forums in some families, not everyone has a computer for each member of the family you know...
And if it gets to the point where they are being disruptive I'm sure there are many other rules you could use on them.
I believe sarge adressed yer concerns alraedy Drekk. Sarge is aware that there may be multiple accounts in a single household. He's just asking for permission to lock threads or delete threads (or forum ban the extra accounts) if they look like they may be originating from a single person --- EDIT: While being TOTALLY irrational, stupid, and problamatic about it.
I mean, how irritating would I be if ye had 7 or so different people speaking like me that all agree with eachother? ;)
Kiranya: "WOLVES ARE COOL!"
KiranyaOne: "Oh yeah! Do the wolf!"
KiranyaTwo: "Only stupid people don't raise them!"
KiranyaVictim: "Hah - my stryder beats yer wolf anyday!"
KiranyaThree: "Hah - in yer dreams!"
Kiranya: "Yeah - stoooopid head!"
KiranyaVictim: "OMG! Yer all right - I succomb to yer greatness!"
KiranyaFour: "What's going on?"
KiranyaVictim: "We're raising the uberest pets in the game!"
KiranyaFour: "I wanna join! PLZ!!!!!!!!!!!"
... on and on ... obvious blatant abuse of multiple forum accounts.
Besides, it's not like they're losing stuff - just posts, and perhaps forum access if they've been doing something especially stupid.
I believe it's a good thing to weed out the "extreme" trouble makers who do this. I mean, if someone wants to create multiple accounts to make their arguements seem stronger - fine. But if they do so in a horrible form, like have 8 seperate accounts shout out that the "****" clan tag was perfectly valid -- then at least Sarge has the option to take action and forum ban the extra accounts if need be. :D
See, that's the problem exactly that makes me worry. I know nothing would happen, but I don't like the idea of a rule that I break, even though it won't be applied to me.
ETA: And no, I don't have two active forum accounts - active, mind you.
Didn't mean to imply ye at all svilu. :D Editing the post. :D
EDIT: As if ye needed multiple accounts to argue anyway. From what I've seen in L2Pets and here - nobody can stand her ground on a position better then yerself Svi. ;)
I didn't mean to say you were - I'm saying I have two forum accounts connected to my master account (Maline [inactive] and MalineII [can't seem to shut up]), both of which have a sizable amount of posts.
While I know Sarge wouldn't ban me for this, the knowledge that it would technically put me out of bounds with this rule is unsettling.
Didn't mean to say you were implying - I know you better than that. :D
Anyway, I don't think it'd bother ye at all Maline. He's only talking about those accounts that have multiple forum logins that are stirring up trouble. (Note to everyone else since some of ye missed it: STIRRING UP TROUBLE) Since yer other account Maline is retired - then yer not really out of bounds at all - ye can always activate it and cause trouble with it. Fact is however, because yer not troublesome - this doesn't apply to ye . :D And since MOST of us aren't troublesome - it doesn't apply to most of us either. :D
i take a pretty strict stance on this
i spent alot of time thinking waying the pros and cons
each side has a valid argument finally i cam to the conclusion...
meh.
who really cares sarge just do what you want ppl with multiple forum accounts dont make the rules around here the vast majority of ppl do
i doubt they will be changeing any opinions best they could do is multi-flame someone
More than once, I've seen posters use multiple forum accounts to try to make their arguments look stronger, or just to cause trouble. I can see it immediately and verify it on the back end, but, as there's no real rule against it, there's not a ton of action I can take unless the poster breaks another one of the specific rules. I understand that there are many households with multiple accounts, and I'd hate to get involved in a legitimate marital squabble, but I'm not often moved to check IPs, and when I am, it's usually because it's clear that there's one person behind all the posts. I'm curious to hear what the community thinks about this situation - how would y'all react to a "One forum account per person" type rule, with the understanding that I have far better things to do than enforce it unless someone actually makes a nuisance of themself.
Yes. One user, one forum account. Married couples, live togethers, families, and co-workers should be rather easy to weed out. If not, send each of the accounts in question a PM or e-mail and ask for clarification. True, a few malcontents will slip through the radar anyway, but the vast majority should be easy to track down and eliminate.
Especially when they stage flame wars. That's just silly. Roleplaying is one thing, deliberating making everyone else miserable is a completely different cup o' tea.
It seems to me the common sentiment here is - Somthing which is difficult to enforce should not be enforced at all.
Anyone in their right mind can tell u that no rules can totally eradicate a problem 100%. If there is a blatant abuse, then there will be a need to have certain form of rules to be in place to control it.
So wad if u have 10 game accounts and therefore have 10 forum accounts should the restriction is in place. To me it is better than to have 10 Game accounts and over 100 forum account with the same person talking to himself most of the time. It is not the best measures but it is better than nothing.
On top of that, one forum account peg to one game account/email will inconvenience those who seek to make trouble. It would not affect for pple like you and me who uses only one forum account to talk.
I have 2 account and 2 forum-accounts.
As I pay for both imo I have the right to use both.
Especially if I were to discontinue 1 of the accounts I could end up with a setup were I would be unable to reply/insert suggestions and what not on these forums.
I am however civil enough to not spam the boards using both.
Bottom line: No, I dislike the idea.
As for IP-matching I can tell you that if a person really was trying to do trouble he would be able to do so anyway if this person would use 1 account for posting from his/her home and the second etc from his/her work etc etc.
I for 1 post with the forum account of my second game account as I am paranoid enough to keep my first account safe from **** attacks etc. My computer-security is to me like the holy grail and I will guard it vigilantly.
Waar een wil is, is een weg. Geen enkele orderhandhaver kan dat tegenhouden.
The rule looks to me something that is hard to implement. However as there are people who misuse it, this seems to be something that is doing harm to the community.
How about making it a general rule, that is not enforced strictly? Only use the rule when people are misusing the 2-3 forum accounts. This would give you a weapon against them, without having to bother to much about it.
i don't like the idea of GMs peeking into connection details and whatnot;
bad enough internet is far less private and anonymous than one would think
i don't care if the rule would be initially created for the bad guys...once settled it might turn against innocents...happened so many times
If its obvious straightaway to sarge then I dont doubt it is obvious to us too. Id rather the double-poster was allowed to continue so we can have fun laughing at them :p
Edit: Now I have to read every recent post to try and uncover the fiend :)
I think your time could be better spent ensuring that legitimate user questions are answered by the appropriate NCSoft NA staff rather than chasing mindless peons off the forums.
Maybe then we can get some response to questions that people see as important instead or being ignored, as (in my experience) is more often the case.
Well Sarge would not have posted this suggestion in he first place if she didn't think it would be necessary for some cases. Since I've never seen anyone complaining about players using 2 forum account although it seems to be disliked through the rows... probably the forum mods are a lot better at discovering them. ;)
So thinking about it a bit more... if one case peaks into the eye that much... rather remove the source of the problem than locking thread after thread.
Gees I have been forem banned several times (temP) both on lin 1 and here. I ahve two accounts in lin 2 the second has never posted, I dont see the need to watch this, if a poster is abusive or breaks the rules then shut that account. If he is civil on his other accounts they should not be affected.
Time should be spent tracing the money to ban the wharehouse accounts of those who sell adena.
Buyers of adena should get temp ban and loss of adena 1st offense and perma ban on that account 2 time
Hammer
Then increase the materials drops leave the adena alone and the economy will fix itself
Not worth the wasted time. If someone wants to debate with themself, I don't see a problem with that really, just let them. Lock/temp ban do whatever else you do when they break another rule. Could be doing much better things :)
I wouldn't waste time investigating it, but I suspect someone who is posting under two accounts to cause problems is going to do something else to warrant the ban hammer anyhow.
Bleh.. make a rule against posting under multiple accounts, and then when people do something to deserve it, drop the hammer.
In my limited experience, a rule such as One-Forum account per "person" being interpreted in any way other than one forum account per game account (as is currently the case) is just the ice cap.
It starts trickling as Sarge and other mods need to step in and enforce that rule, then players start complaining about favoratism and uneven application of the rule and at the end of the journey, what started as a few drips from an ice block is this massive river.
Look. There are already rules in place. Enforce those.
If someone is violating the board rules for spamming, flaming, posting inappropriate content, having a back and forth banter that should be relegated to PMs. Enforce that.
As someone already noted, if they pay for 2 accounts, they pay for 2 forum accounts. If you want to take away their forum account, they shouldn't pay the full monthly fee. Now I'm ok with that as well. :D
Reminds me a bit of the laws in the US. We already have laws against reckless driving. Do we need a NEW law than bans cell phone use? If you drive recklessly because you are on a cell phone you are still driving recklessly, just as if you would be eating a triple decker burger, applying your mascara, or well, that's enough examples I think. ;)
Enforce the rules we have.
If people are being annoying with a second account you need to decide if being annoying is against the rules, or if people (perhaps even mods) need to lighten up. Enforce the rules we have and it shouldn't matter if someone has 50 forum accounts.
People do this? That's soooo very sad. Wow, I would never consider doing that in a million years. Sheesh. I think if they are making a nuisance of themselves they should be dealt with.
IN some ways I agree with Ellie...
This is just sad. What is more sad is if the people who do this are the one's who are shouting that they are hardcore and everyone else is carebear.
How "weak" do you have to be to attempt strengthen your arguments by falsifying identities so that it seems like more people are on your side.
Now THAT's carebear and a bit psycho as well.
Be strong, state your opinion and move on. If you aren't capable of arguing your case let someone else do it.
Other than that, could care less, if someone has the need to make themselves feel "big" by posting in that manner then as long as they aren't breaking any rules and are being reasonably respectful let them have their delusions.
Hopefully they will become wards of the state at some point so society doesn't have to deal with them directly.
Thanks for everyone's input. What I really want to do when this comes up, of course, is point out publicly that the brand-new never-posted elpy is on the the same IP as the OP, but our privacy policy forbids that. Interesting discussion, though.
If its obvious straightaway to sarge then I dont doubt it is obvious to us too. Id rather the double-poster was allowed to continue so we can have fun laughing at them :p
Edit: Now I have to read every recent post to try and uncover the fiend :)
I have 2 account and 2 forum-accounts.
As I pay for both imo I have the right to use both.
Especially if I were to discontinue 1 of the accounts I could end up with a setup were I would be unable to reply/insert suggestions and what not on these forums.
I am however civil enough to not spam the boards using both.
Bottom line: No, I dislike the idea.
As for IP-matching I can tell you that if a person really was trying to do trouble he would be able to do so anyway if this person would use 1 account for posting from his/her home and the second etc from his/her work etc etc.
I for 1 post with the forum account of my second game account as I am paranoid enough to keep my first account safe from **** attacks etc. My computer-security is to me like the holy grail and I will guard it vigilantly.
Waar een wil is, is een weg. Geen enkele orderhandhaver kan dat tegenhouden.
There ya go...
......"if".......a player "pays" to have multiple accounts it was not their intention to buy these accounts for multiple "FORUM" useage. NCSoft has provided them with the opportunity to have multiple forum names.
I find this disturbing that your asking us the community who use these forums for "permission" to do something you will or will not do on your own anyways. You have stated you have the knowledge in your grasp to block multiple useage. Seems to me your fresh out of ideas on how to do your job. So you want us to make your decision for you? I say....do not put this on our "community" shoulders and make your own decisions.
Trouble makers using this to bolster a post? ....suggestion...why dont you get that little button out that says PM on it...and send them a little message like you would normally do under similar situations? :cool: hmmmm?
remember shakespeare?...."much ado about nothing"...Is this a good guy bad guy setup on us the community?
(edited...OMG OMG!!! I cant believe Wyzeguy and myself think alike....eeewwwww...Sorry about that..just had to get that off my chest. Browsed thru and saw he made a similar post.)
Being a Community Manager also means trying to accommodate the user base, not necessarily subjucate them.
Getting the temperature of a certain consideration is a wise thing in my limited experience. In the end it may not make or break the decision, but it does allow the team to gauge expected reaction and work on measure to explain and enforce based upon the prediction.
Rages, you obviously don't know me very well. I am not asking permission for anything. It came up last night, and I thought it was an interesting situation. After a very lively discussion between a few of us mods, I decided to see what y'all had to say on the matter. More rules? Less rules? That's really what it comes down to. In the specific cases, I do whatever the situation requires, but in the general case there's no policy, and the fundamental dishonesty of the action is question makes my teeth itch. I lean towards creating a policy for the issue, other people either agreed or disagreed. I'm glad I asked, too, because it's nice to be reminded that y'all can have an interesting, high-level discussion when the topic is right.
your right I dont know you very well..but I obviously know how to rattle your cage :cool: lol
Try to see past the surface. Sometimes just asking the question (not permission) is a way of alerting people of a problem and possibly eliminating it. Good managers do this in the workplace.
your right I dont know you very well..but I obviously know how to rattle your cage :cool: lol
Try to see past the surface. Sometimes just asking the question (not permission) is a way of alerting people of a problem and possibly eliminating it. Good managers do this in the workplace.
Yah, i think it worked for that -- whatever flame war prob'ly was in one of the server-specific forums, I don't think I've seen it (not much contentious going on here of late) -- but whoever it was will face increased risk of being sniffed out and will lay-low.
On the downside, I imagine for a few multi-account owners it may have planted the seeds of mischief. :)
I've seen on other forums where people inevitably end up accidentally using the wrong account and getting a bit of virtual humiliation.
Honestly, I do most of my posting from work. I seldom haunt the forums at home as I am usually either playing or taking care of personal business while on my computer there. If I did, and were less secure about my opinions, then I could have two forum accounts and two ISP's and no flags would go up. However, if you notice a pattern of behavior that needs attetion, please do what you see is fit. Perhaps this should be more of an internal policy left to the moderator's discretion. Unless there is multiple instances of serious and continuous abuse, I just don't think a formal published regulation is necessary.
Well restrict to 1forumaccount per IP won't do much good...
1. Here in sweden we have iin some areas thousands of people connecting with the same IP, so it would kinda limit a bit hard
2. It's very easy to go around if you want.
More than once, I've seen posters use multiple forum accounts to try to make their arguments look stronger, or just to cause trouble.
Sarge
It's what is classically know as schizophrenia. Just refer the afflicted person to the appropriate medical authorities. :p
Seriously though, you've never given any indication of not being able to handle things, so just do what needs to be done when abuse rears it's ugly head. :)
I think it would be effective if there was just some way for us, the readers, to identify that two different forum acccounts are linked, in an anonymous way that does not compromise security. No IPs, no account IDs, nothing real, but some arbitrary identification.
For example, if I click on MrX's character profile I could see who else MrX posts as, and then we'd be the collective judges instead of the forum admin. That way if its a legit couple with separate viewpoints, no one would care, but if it's one guy pretending to be 3 people, it would be readily obvious for anyone interested.
It's what is classically know as schizophrenia. Just refer the afflicted person to the appropriate medical authorities. :p
Classically known as Multiple Personality Disorder, more recently known as a Dissociative Personality, and mistakenly called schizophrenia in B-movies.
It's what is classically know as schizophrenia. Just refer the afflicted person to the appropriate medical authorities. :p
Classically known as Multiple Personality Disorder, more recently known as a Dissociative Personality, and mistakenly called schizophrenia in B-movies.
I don't think banning accounts or even thread locking should be done. The reason is Sarge nor anyone from NCSoft could tell if it is the same person... even if their IP is the same if could be two brothers ot a husband and wife... who each have their own rights to post their opinions.
No. Sarge should not ban based on a hunch... only on current forum rule violations.
Well, I can't say I have a whole lot of faith for the rules right now. I mean, conspiracy posts? Doomsday posts? I don't even know what that is supposed to mean, it sounds like something someone came up with to be able to ban anyone they deem too mouthy.
Well, I can't say I have a whole lot of faith for the rules right now. I mean, conspiracy posts? Doomsday posts? I don't even know what that is supposed to mean, it sounds like something someone came up with to be able to ban anyone they deem too mouthy.
Just my take on the situation :p
Waves bye bye as Zetsubou mysteriously disappears without a trace :(
Well, I can't say I have a whole lot of faith for the rules right now. I mean, conspiracy posts? Doomsday posts? I don't even know what that is supposed to mean, it sounds like something someone came up with to be able to ban anyone they deem too mouthy.
I buy my tin foil from CostCo. The bulk stuff really works just as well for hats as the name brand stuff.
I moderate our forums very similarly. If we have a clan member that wants to leave or a community member that no longer wants to be in the community, that's cool.
I'm not leaving their "farewell" posts or sendoffs in the forums. It's simply not good for business. We have a PM system just like this board has so people who want to disappear may do so, may say their farewells to anyone who is important enough for them to warrant such a note and they may fade into the sunset as they see fit.
Also threat messages (I'll quit this game if .... blah ... yadda ... spew ....) are pointless. Ya bud, you go do that. Have a nice day. I don't leave those posts up and neither should NCSoft.
Breeding discontent is never in the best interest of the organization.
Have a legit concern or suggestion for improvement? NCSoft's boards just like ours have appropriate places for it. Reasonable people with constructive criticism are always welcome. Malcontents and people who think they will use our boards as a way to go out with a bang or intimidate us into bending to their will? lol Nope.
Well, I can't say I have a whole lot of faith for the rules right now. I mean, conspiracy posts? Doomsday posts? I don't even know what that is supposed to mean, it sounds like something someone came up with to be able to ban anyone they deem too mouthy.
I buy my tin foil from CostCo. The bulk stuff really works just as well for hats as the name brand stuff.
Also... hanging metal clothes hangers from the rafters will also help.