Greetings.
I figured since NCSoft won't start class specific forums. I'd start a thread based on our classes. Hopefully this thread will serve a few purposes.
1)Basically a place for the current TANKS in L2 to come and discuss thier class.
2) Place for new players to come and ask questions.
3) A place to come and look for advice or share tips on what they have found to work. Hunting spots, Gear, tatoo setups, PvP , PvE and sieg tips, ect...
So welcome to all, and I look forward to hearing from everyone.
I am a lvl 61 sk no tattoos(i like my stats to stay as is), but i wear +3 doom and +3 sword of demascus with Focus it adds Critical Rate increases permanently +15%. I just recently enhanced it so lvl 60-61 was not to bad. If you get buffs SE or other buffs you will lvl just fine. I find fighting white mobs are ok for pve.
I used to play a DA, and I would have rather played a Paladin, but due to their lack of pvp skills I did not. I really wanted to see in C4 that Paladins get a summon. Something like a DA's panther. Maybe a Tiger or something. However their new additional to shield stun is nice, as well as TK and SK getting shield stun, but all of this kinda leaves DA's in gutter with really not getting any new skills so far. I believe DA's should get some type of attacking/offensive cubic. A Vampire Cubic would be just up their alley, considering a DA's background with Dark Magic.
Is it important to have a tank in every group? I know for like instances and goin up against big bosses you should but just goin out and farming or just to level up for awhile so you need a tank?
I think the best tank is the TK, because they are the most balanced class. They can PvE and PvP well and no other tanks can claim they can do both well. For example, DA's are good a PvP but their not good as tanks for PvE. SK's can PvE and PvP nicely too but are not as good as TK's since they have lower DEX and CON. As for Paladins, they're the best at tanking but are the worst at PvP. And if they do add shield stun TK's will be king of PvP for tank classes and I bet they can fare quite well against any other classes.
Is it important to have a tank in every group? I know for like instances and goin up against big bosses you should but just goin out and farming or just to level up for awhile so you need a tank?
Tanks are useful but you dont always need a real tank to tank. You need one, when you go out and bother nasty mobs who can kill the DD's in one or two blows though. Never fight a raidmob without a very good tank, because he uses hate to keep the agro.
The party tank is the one, everybody assists and the healers keep healthy. He selects targets and agroes them first. For those parties, the bounty hunter is a good choice. His spoil skill, agroes a lot. Most often enough to let him keep the agro. With mages/archers in the group, a real tank with hate is needed to keep the agro of the mob focused on the tank.
If SK's get shield stun then I want lightning strike.
My understanding is that they don't get shield stun until level 77.. and apparently the xp difference between level 75 and 77 is like going from level 50 to 75.. As I was explained. But perhaps Im wrong?
If they do infact get shield stun befor this then.. umm.. well.. Lets just all hoof DA's and Paladins in the neather region alittle more.
I'm a low level DA (Mid 40's) and I've heard nothing but great things about DA's in general.
Pally's yeah, I've heard they're almost useless, and have no real offensive skills, so they are weak in PVP as well.
As far as DA's not having offensive, I believe we are fairly well equipped, hamstring for ranged, plus life leach, and our pet.
I tend to do AoE groups, as the main tank (even though I'm usually the lowest lvl player). Being mid 40's I have a higher pdef then those in their upper 40's to early 50s (pre 52 switch to b grade) and with Hate Aura, I tend to never lose aggro...
I think the best tank is the TK, because they are the most balanced class. They can PvE and PvP well and no other tanks can claim they can do both well. For example, DA's are good a PvP but their not good as tanks for PvE. SK's can PvE and PvP nicely too but are not as good as TK's since they have lower DEX and CON. As for Paladins, they're the best at tanking but are the worst at PvP. And if they do add shield stun TK's will be king of PvP for tank classes and I bet they can fare quite well against any other classes.
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DA's are not good PvE tanks? Since when?
If you want to be a tank, go DA or Pali. SK's have no hp, so you wont be able to tank the highest level areas till you are very high level.
If SK's get shield stun then I want lightning strike.
If you get LS then I want your CON. I'll even give up my 1 extra STR for it. :p
edit: By the way, you'll notice that many classes get a toggle that increases resistance to bleed and poison. Those are the two most powerful tools of an SK in pvp. Even greater than lightning strike in most cases.
I personally think that the WarLord should be in the Tank group too. They might not have hate but they seldom lose agro, and they can also have a weaker hate aura (provoke).
Although in a non aoe group they tend to be just another dd.
I have a lvl 66 DA so I know a little about tanking too.
I play a Paladin that is just barely into his 40s. I have a tatoo that drops my CON by 4 and raises my STR by 4, and so far I love it. It's given me, on average, about 17% more P.atk than normal while only sacrificing a couple hundred hit points.
Personally, I don't see any problem with Paladins as a class. Granted, I don't play the game for PvP, so that probably helps. As a PvP class, yes, Paladins don't do too well. Luckily, PvP isn't all there is to this game. In the end, a good Tank can almost always find a group if they want one, because the DDs and Mages always want a meatshield. When you go after Undead, especially, Paladins with Blunt weapons absolutely rock. At 40 they get the Holy Armor passive which reduces the damage that undead do to the Pally, and at 43 they get the Holy Weapon passive, which reduces the P.def of any undead they face by 20-40%. Some undead, also, are weak against Blunts, adding an additional 10% penalty to their P.def... you do the math.
Really, I love my Tank, even though his levelling has been slow lately. It's definitely a class that you have to love BEFORE you enter it, though.
There are two roles people always mix - tank and hater. There is another one involved - puller.
Puller is the one who attacks/attracts mobs first. Then mob comes to a tank. Most melee groups combine these roles, since keeping mobs aggro is easier if you attack mob before others. But it might be spoil, Lure and other things.
Tank is the one who holds most mob hits on himself. Generally he's the one attacking mob first since it helps to keep aggro. You need health and good PDef for the role. Good attack or other means of attracting aggro are welcome, but not absolutely necessary if group knows how to work without them.
Hater is the person who has hate skills. Natural tank classes are best at it. Hater saves people in groups that have lowest PDef - mages and low level players. It's the sort of crowd control - predict reaggro of the mob, and tow the one toward himself. So if hater sees a mage attacked, he uses his hate skills (when applicable). Tank abilities are needed here as well.
But there is the difference between primary tank and hater. Nowaday most successful groups will have melee DD at primary tank position - daggers, gladiators and destroyers play this role well thank to vampiric rage self-heal and good attacks that keep most mobs aggressive toward these tanks.
On the other hand a natural tank is such group works from time to time. He attracts mobs only when needed. You can work without this, but you have better risk at making mistakes that you won't be able to avoid easily.
Tanks (DA, Pal, SK, TK) that hate each mob are spending too much mp on this. You can't use aggression on every mob without recharger and generally there are better ways to use this mana. Good tank will allow some DD to tank instead. But when things go wrong, tank saves the day with his agression, hate aura and last, but not least, Ultimate defense.
One of most successful groups I play in has TH as primary tank and puller and Paladin as hater. Generally we need no hate at all, but if we get two active mobs, Paladin casts agression toward second one, and healers never get attacked.
You might have a higher Pdef than DD's but not 50+ tanks (just want to clear up your statement).
DA is a great class. You are the most well rounded Tank call out there. The problem is that most people think that tanks should be doing alot of damage. Well NO, your not. You should be doing a decent level of Damage to keep agro, but should not be doing all the work (unless you are duoing with a Buffer/Healer).
Tanks are just that. They are designed to take damage. True that DD's (destroyers, Glads, BH) can all do a half job at tanking but will consitantly need healing. Raids need tanks.
My only suggestion to NCSoft on Tanks is to drop the MP use on Aggression by about 20% and raise the power by about 20%. This balance will make tanks more effective in their role.
As a 52+ tank my stuff of choice is Doom Plate and a Dama.
Since no one has really said it, I'll lay out the general conclusions people have made about the different tank classes. This dissertation ignores things that are generally considered ‘common knowledge’, like the fact that elves have certain self bufs that other classes don’t have. I’ve tried to take a ‘neutral’ stance regarding each class’ advantages and disadvantages, reiterating the comments and general thoughts of the l2 boards here and elsewhere regarding tanks. My own experiences are thrown in as well, your mileage may vary.
TEMPLE KNIGHTS
The Temple Knight is the mose "PVE-iest" of the tank classes. In PVE, he is THE best field AoE tank, with 360 degree shield blocking, high block and evade rate due to dex, and high speed to outrun the big nasties. The HP is about in the middle of the SKs and the Human knights; not bad, but not exactly great. HP weapons are favored here as well, but many choose swords and focus weapons. The healing cubic keeps him going slightly longer and keeps mana down a tiny bit for his party, but is generally considered not really useful most of the time. The Temple Knight has undead passives that improve his ability to fight/tank undead, which really only help in PvE, unfortunately. For raid bosses, an HP weapon is needed, but the TK can handle it, in general, with gusto. They may not be the first choice, but they’re not a bad second for a raid tank. In small parties, the ability to self-heal very high level bleeds and poisons comes in handy every now and then. Finally, Guard Stance, the mp-abusing toggle that provides tons of Pdef, was often described as the main reason behind being a TK. However, with the gift of this skill to SKs, it’s no longer as big of a selling point.
At first glance, TKs are limited in what they can offer parties in PVP. The Temple Knight finds his high speed and high mdef useful in chasing down slow, lightly armored classes...like nukers, praying his HP and healers hold out while he cuts away at the mage in front of him. Speed is his friend. He can perform quick hits and fade away, and even slowed has a fairly decent run speed. He has two cubics; a healing cubic and a storm cubic. The healing cubic is generally considered ‘worthless’, never healing when you really need it. Reportedly, this has been improved over previous chronicles (such as healing party members) but it’s still fairly weak. His storm cubic, also, is not considered very useful, but adds a shot in here or there. The ability to sustain three cubics, while not having the ability to summon three, has been a constant thorn in the sides of all TKs. However, this will shine soon in C4 with the ability for Summoners to do a 'mass summoning' of cubics for their party. Normal tanks/players can only carry one cubic, but the TK can carry multiple. I predict a party of different summoners and a few TKs (now armed with THREE nuking cubics or two and a debufing cubic) can wreak terrible havoc, the likes we've not seen. Entangle, the bane of all archers and nukers, is in the arsenal of the TK, and one of his most important weapons. A slowed enemy is a dead enemy. TKs who forget this important skill are really reducing their chances in PVP; both their own and their side’s.
In C4 it's confirmed that at high levels (76+), TKs get a shield stun skill (that uses about 1/3 of the mana their human tanks' shield stun does, as well....). They get another ‘super’ skill: a 100% targeted heal spell with a recharge timer of about 30 minutes. They also get another UD (that also does an aoe hate). They also some other lame skills which all other tanks get, which is a passive increased resistance to bleed and poison, as well as a toggle that reduces stun/para chance. TKs will also get a self buf of Magic Mirror, a buf that reflects 100% of magic debufs back on to the caster, possibly ensuring high level TKs the task of ‘mage hunter’ in c4.
PALADINS
The paladin is a hybrid healer-tank class. Mostly tank, partly healer, the paladin can heal friendlies (or mobs...) in a burst for almost as much or more as a Bishop can. They cannot, however, sustain this; four or five hp blasts with mana and they’re out. They have the Sacrifice skill, a unique skill that lets them sacrifice their HP in exchange for healing another player a similar, somewhat smaller amount. The human tank’s Shield Stun is the only non-force stun in the game, and has generally the highest land rate of all stuns in the game. In PvE, the stun will sustain about 5 hits (by anyone) on average before breaking, but in PvP, you can rely on it to only survive about 1 or 2. Majesty, the human tank’s unique self buf, increases our pdef again at the same rate as Shield 3, but at the cost of 8 evasion. Even little level 52 daggers will be able to hit you, so get ready.
In PvE, Paladins are considered some of the best at tanking undead mobs. Their high con and affinity for HP weapons tends to make them excellent at soaking hits from most things. Unlike the TK, the paladin is slow. He has a 360 degree blocking toggle (which reportedly consumes no mana) that sacrifices blocking power in exchange for all around blocking. For undead raid bosses, there are none better: High HP and extra resistance to undead give the paladin the decided advantage as the tank of choice. The Paladin has several other undead skills, which Paladins give up on using after about level 60, since they generally have a low landing rate.
Because of the extreme defensive nature of the Paladin, many refer to them as “Combat Medics”. With the introduction of CP, a Paladin can spam away all his mana and all his HP and still have about 3000 CP for enemies to cut through at the highest levels. Plus, their place as a tank leaves them as one of the last targets in PVP, allowing them to throw in an annoying stun or last heal, possibly swinging the balance of the pvp in your party’s favor. Most PVP paladins that take up the role of combat medic tend to go –str+con, -str+dex, -int+wit, enabling the most blocks, hp, and casting speed they can get.
There’s a new trend recently of Paladins giving up the life of the healer, and going the route of the damage dealer. These paladins sacrifice their con for extra dex and strength, acquire focus weapons, and get armor that enhances their damage dealing ability (Blue Wolf, Tallum or Majestic Heavy). Bows are also favored weapons of the DD Paladin. With these builds, the Paladin expects their enemies to become confused; generally, tank classes do not do exceptional damage. A few critical hits with a focus dama or bow tends to change their mind, allowing your weaker dd’s to get in and really let loose.
In C4, the paladin has been confirmed to get a few lame skills, and another UD like the TK’s. However, they also get some very interesting skills. Like the TK, the Paladin gets a 100% heal spell. The Paladin also gets a new type of shield stun, one which, instead of stunning, acts like ‘silence’ for melee skills. Also, Paladins get a self buf, “physical mirror”, which acts like Magic Mirror, except reflecting debufs caused by physical attacks. These together will give human tanks a distinct advantage against classes that rely on physical attacks.
DARK AVENGERS
The dark avenger is a hybrid summoner-tank. Mostly tank, partly summoner, the Dark Avenger has a drain of the same power as other magics, but no matk skills, leaving his drain relatively weak. They retain their lvl 35 self heal, but even with BSPS, it tends to just make you an arrow/nuke magnet. The Dark Avenger’s main draw point is its summon: the Dark Panther. Once feared universally, in the current age of archers and nukers with soulshots, spiritshots, outrageous casting speed, and unbelievable speed, the Dark Panther has fallen by the wayside. Universal improvements to the summoning system such as party heals/bufs (Warcryer, sws, bd) affecting summons, as well as soulshots for pets/summons, indicate summons may once again pose a threat. The human tank’s Shield Stun is the only non-force stun in the game, and has generally the highest land rate of all stuns in the game. In PvE, the stun will sustain about 5 hits (by anyone) on average before breaking, but in PvP, you can rely on it to only survive about 1 or 2. Majesty, the human tank’s unique self buf, increases our pdef again at the same rate as Shield 3, but at the cost of 8 evasion. Even little level 52 daggers will be able to hit you, so get ready.
In PVE, you can’t really go wrong picking a DA to tank for your group. They’re the only pure tank that doesn’t get 360 degree shield blocking of any kind, so the DA must either rely on his skill or luck to keep his shield between him and the gobs of mobs. They generally have tons of HP, like Paladins, but they do not have any undead passives. Instead, they have corpse plague and corpse drain, which if managed properly can add a some extra uptime to your party. The corpse drain (for those interested, or those who have played a nuker with corpse drain) returns about 100 hp + 10* skill level per corpse for a light amount of mana…not enough to solo on, but enough to help in a small group. Corpse plague is really just a novelty at higher levels; the DA’s low matk and infrequent levels of the corpse plague skill make it unlikely to land on mobs your level.
In PVP, the DA was once king of the hill. The DA as of now still packs a decent punch, but not what it used to. The Panther is extremely annoying to anyone not attacking it. The second it’s targeted though, it’s just another mob: dropped in three to six hits from ranged dd’s, about double from melee dd’s. The panther can be described as “A extremely fast dwarf with a bow wearing robes, who’s been windshackled”. He’s got plenty of hp and is faster than the DA with its base running speed, but it has little pdef and mdef, even buffed. The crit rate of the panther is the same as most summons; very low. The Patk and movement speed of the panther is its only saving point; with bufs and a very careful DA, the panther can really hurt your enemy. Some DAs have foregone their HP heritage and set themselves up similar to the Paladin Damage Dealer, but this trend doesn’t seem as common among DAs as it is Paladins.
The DA has a few other skills of importance, including Hamstring and his Drain. To mdef-resist people your level, expect your drain to do no more than a couple hundred damage. You might be able to do double to low mdef or badly jeweled enemies, and much more to lower level enemies. Hamstring, the bane of all archers and nukers, is in the arsenal of the DA, and one of his most important weapons. A slowed enemy is a dead enemy. DAs who forget this important skill are really reducing their chances in PVP; both their own and their side’s.
In C4, the DA has been confirmed to get a few lame skills, and another UD like the TK’s and Paladin’s. However, they also get some very interesting skills. Unlike the Paladin, DA gets a new, ‘very powerful’ dark attack. The precise nature of ‘very powerful’ remains unclear, but a second ranged nuke is never something to scoff at. The DA also gets a new type of shield stun, one which, instead of stunning, acts like ‘silence’ for melee skills. Also, DA get a self buf, “physical mirror”, which acts like Magic Mirror, except reflecting debufs caused by physical attacks. These together will give human tanks a distinct advantage against classes that rely on physical attacks.
SHILLEIN KNIGHTS
Ah, the SK. Once considered the worst tank, the SK has come far, and now understood for the true power that they can bring forth onto the battlefield. Once described to me as a “mage tank”, the SK is definitely the most offensive tank of all the tank classes. Unlike other tanks, SKs almost universally use sword weapons, and many use mage swords. SAs of choice are Focus and occasionally Haste for melee weapons, and Acumen or Magic Power for mage weapons. Mage power is one that really helps the Sk out: normally, ‘75’ matk (or whatever the matk bonus is for the particular weapon) is not useful for mages. For tanks without matk masteries, 75 matk may increase by a third or a fourth their matk, greatly increasing the chance of landing debufs and damage dealt with magic. The main weakness of the SK is their low con and HP; they stun almost as easily as mages, and unlike all other tanks, the SK has no self-mdef buf.
In PvE, and PvP the SK has many options available to them. With the highest strength of all tanks and an affinity for damage, the SK can solo efficiently. While it’s true that a Dark Avenger with a panther, or a Paladin fighting undead mobs can kill fairly quickly, both are limited. The SK at highest levels has four ranged nukes. The first is the The Dark Elf racial drain nuke, which returns 20% hp of the damage done. Second is the Dark Elf racial ice bolt nuke which has a chance of slowing, effect 2 (effectively a force slow attack). Third, they have the SK-only special nuke, which has half-power of the racial dain but returns 100% damage done as hp, and is fairly mana efficient. Fourth, and perhaps most feared, is the SK’s lightning strike, which does damage and has a chance to land a 2 minute paralyze. The SK also has the racial poison, bleed, hex, and power break skills at his disposal for improving his damage output. Needless to say, the choice to use a high matk weapon by many SKs should be clear by now. Of course, we must not forget to mention the recent C3 addition of the TK’s Guard Stance to the repertoire of the SK, as well as 360 degree shield blocking. Both of these things have greatly helped the TK.
The SK also has three cubics. The first is a draining cubic, which does direct damage, returning some of the damage done back as HP to the SK. The second is a debuf cubic, which has a chance at landing hex, power break, or windshackle against your opponent. For those counting, this means an SK can at the absolute best land seven debufs on an enemy. Against tanks and archers or any other highly buffed class, even if the debufs did nothing else, rolling off some of their bufs is nearly guaranteed. The third is a cubic that poisons enemies.
Of course, there are downsides for being an SK. As mentioned before, your low con makes you a stun-magnet. Your low HP presents some issues in PvE; Bishops heal you the least effectively of all tanks. You’re not as fast as SKs, and you’re the only tank without a self-mdef buf. Many people still have the perception that, even with all the offensive capability of the SK, they still cannot tank, and you may be relegated as a ‘backup’ tank. In these situations, SKs can have a lot of fun; instead of worrying about managing hate, you get to sit back and use your debufs, drains, nukes, bleeds, poisons; everything else you wouldn’t normally get to do when all your MP is used on hate. Just hope you don’t pull agro, and the healer forgets about you! Another pain for being an SK is the mana drain. Shield fortress, Guard Stance, Debufs, Nukes, cubics…it adds up. Some see this as a boon, others, a curse. Opinions vary widely on this. Cubics only last 15 minutes, and if you die, they disappear too. They can become quite expensive.
During Mob Boss raids, get ready to sit in the back seat: you’re going to either have to outlevel all other tanks by a lot, or use your clout in the alliance to get a chance to tank. Generally, the raid party is a lot safer and much easier to keep alive if the main tank is …well, not you. Low HP means the all important bishop heal, restore life, will be the weakest in your case. When you are at 4000 hp and the raid boss is doing 1000 a hit while mana draning you at the same time, you and the healers will be sweating for the entire ordeal. It’s hard to argue how your guard stance’s pdef makes up for the fact that the human has twice (or more) your HP fully buffed (guard stance, which depending on level and setup, about meets Majesty pdef…yet another constant argument between human and elf tanks). It’s been known for an SK or two to tank every now and then, so don’t give up total hope!
In C4, the SK has been confirmed to get a few lame skills, and another UD like the TK’s, Paladin’s, and DAs. However, they also get some very interesting skills. Like the DA, the SK gets a new, ‘very powerful’ dark attack (bringing their ranged magic attacks up to 5, for those counting). The precise nature of ‘very powerful’ remains unclear, but another ranged nuke is never something to scoff at. The SK also gets a very mana efficient shield stun at high levels. Also, SKs will also get a self buf of Magic Mirror, a buf that reflects 100% of magic debufs back on to the caster. This should help at high level SKs in fighting all magic using classes.
To play a class for the 70+ skills would mean having to start it back in chronicle 1. What's the best tank class for someone starting one now?? which is most useful the earliest? I'm working on a TK, but he may just go SwS at 40.
By the time I get to 70 L3 will have been out for a year.
Despite being lvl 48 SK... I fear I am a somewhat rubbish tank! :o I'd appreciate any tips from the experts, especially as to how to be effective in the catas.
Many thanks in advance
I'm going to stay TK. It's what I've wanted to be and I don't care if it's nerfed to hellz like all the other Light Elf Classes. If they don't want to party with me screw 'em.
If you truly want to tank for large parties, I think it is a must for you to get a SoD(sword of delusion) with health SA. If you will be doing small groups(2-4 people), I doubt you are taking on anything heavy enough to where your HP is constantly in jeopardy of hitting 0, so a Focus weapon will be best for damage(this same setup if you solo). The problem will come in at 52+ where there are no B-grade swords with Health SA, yet the mobs are tougher and hit harder.
New Skill for Tanks and you dont have to have a subclass 75 and be level 77. This skill would however be a upper 60's or lower 70's skill. Not sure if it has already been discussed or not.
"Ultimate Defense lvl 3" 20% more Pdef than Ultimate Defense lvl2 and this is the big part ... Also Boost Mdef to extreme amount as well. So when you can't moved, you simply cant be nuked to death either by Matk either. Feedback or is this just a lousy idea??
Despite being lvl 48 SK... I fear I am a somewhat rubbish tank! :o I'd appreciate any tips from the experts, especially as to how to be effective in the catas.
Many thanks in advance
TIPS ON TANKING
Make use of social-ness and agroness. Yeah, you're going to loose agro fairly quickly on most mobs (depending on your group) but in the end, if it gives half the damage to you and half on someone else, which saves the healer mana.
Building hate on one social mob builds hate on all of them. If two social mobs are near each other, hate one and then attack the other. This builds hate on both the mobs, but more on the one you hated. By attacking the other mob, you start to build more hate on it. Let me explain how this works (it's a new annoying 'feature' of C3, so learn to tank to it). I'd estimate that when you hate a single, social target, it builds half hate on all social mobs in the area. Scenereo 1: you attack the mob you hated. Other people start attacking it, building hate on all the mobs attacking you. One person goes over half your hate poer on the other mobs. This sends a signal to all the social mobs to now attack the guy who went over half the hate power. Scenereo 2: Attack the add. Now, you are building hate on the mob which had half the hate power added to its hate value, and DDs in your group have to overcome the full hate power on the mob you originally hated, thus keeping the mobs on you longer.
Make sure to know when to AoE hate. If two mobs that are not social are near each other, don't do an aoe hate! In the case that three mobs are near each other, two are not social, but those two are social with the third mob, make sure to still attack the non-social mob first. That way, you have only two attacking you and not three. Then, make sure to attack that doubly social mob before anyone else. When you then attack the mob that's social with the rest, it will then pull the last mob you havn't been fighting one onto you. I'm uncertain if the 'social hate' works here or not, you may have to experiment.
Save AoE hate for dangerous situations, ie, three or more mobs already attacking you. In those situationsOne stray mob and you're going to be toast.
You don't have to hate every mob! This is the first mistake of many tanks. Just agroing a mob by runing into it's agro radius builds a substantial amount of hate. If you do this at about 2 seconds before the mob your group is currently fighting dies, you can get the first couple hits in on the new mob, building even more agro for yourself.
SKs, as many of you already know, hex is your best friend. It casts just a little bit slower than hate, and builds a decent amount of agro, plus the added side effect of less pdef to eat through.
Human Tanks (and very high level c4 TKs and SKs), never, ever, ever shield stun the mob you're currently attacking while in a party. Learn to use your stun as an 8 second melee sleep, because, that's basically what it is now. Use it to stun adds, and it will stay up the whole 8 seconds. That usually gives you enough time to kill the mob you're currently fighting, thus reducing the number of mobs you have to fight. In c4, all tanks will be able to do this at very high levels.
(I'm honestly very jealous of the TK and SK's shield stun, because it will use about 1/3 of the mana the human's stun does. Here's hoping it works about that much less, too :p ;) )
EDIT - In addition to Glavs tips on tanking, have a chat to whoever is your crowd controller in the party.
They may not understand what Glav has posted and will just sleep/root mobs willy nilly and expect you to tank them in the order they were CC'd.
Talk to your group, thats the fist step in effective tanking.
Every group of players will have their perceptions based on experience with tanks they have groupped with. So unless you have regular clan groups you may need to have a quick chat on how you'll be tanking with your group.
Remember that, the only obvious thing to a group is your equipment and they will generally make their assumptions on that basis.
They will not generally know your exact level, nor your expertise in playing your class. (which is why I know a lot of you have posted on this subject wrt a tanks reputation.)
Regards,
Ellyrion Fiallathandriel
6X Knight of Eva
Kain
One other thing.
While tanking if you don't have an official targeter. (most folks just double click assist tank.
Try and tell your party members to not switch targets until the one they are beating on is dead.
I hate seeing an aggro spawn and go for the healer who is sitting, or a buffer who might be afk. You hate it to pull them off, and the whole party runs over to attack it, leaving the tank in the middle of the aggro mobs they were working on.
What do you think which class tanks raid bosses bosses best, and why?
Which perspective are you speaking from (are you a tank yourself, are you a healer, a DD?)? Have you raided with various different tanks? Which setup (tats, armour and SA) did you prefer?
Is it feasible for an elven (either kind) tank to keep up Guard Stance for the whole duration of a raid, or does it put too much of a strain on the healers?
Do cubics work on raid bosses at all or are they a waste of money for them?
Thanks in advance.
I've done quite a bit of raiding. In fact, often times, I'm the one who sets up the tank group and tanks for the alliance raids. As a DA, I make it a point of pride that no one has died in a raid I've tanked for in a long time...unless they do something stupid like attack the mob before the raid starts. :D I'm un-tatooed, but have an hp-tank setup. I’ve been in raids where every tank class has tanked, and they’ve all been successful at tanking. There are some advantages, however, to various classes.
TK Cubics…won’t do much when tanking a raid boss. Sorry. SK debuf cubics might, but they’re probably not going to be the tank of choice (for reasons stated shortly).
If you'd like a breakdown of tanks,
I suggest reading the Unofficial "TANK" thread (http://boards.lineage2.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=394235&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#394235). Scroll down a bit on the first page, and you'll see my extensive breakdown of each tank class. I discuss their raid tanking abilities there. I'll cut and paste the info to here for quick reference. :)
As a quick and dirty comparison,
TK: "For raid bosses, an HP weapon is needed, but the TK can handle it, in general, with gusto. They may not be the first choice, but they’re not a bad second for a raid tank."
Paladin: "For undead raid bosses, there are none better: High HP and extra resistance to undead give the paladin the decided advantage as the tank of choice."
DA: "In PVE, you can’t really go wrong picking a DA to tank for your group. They’re the only pure tank that doesn’t get 360 degree shield blocking of any kind, so the DA must either rely on his skill or luck to keep his shield between him and the gobs of mobs. " (I'll add that, other than that, they're a very good 'second' tank behind the Paladin for tanking raid bosses. Many paladins go +dex and +con, whereas DAs don't. However, DAs have a self-damage reflection buf. When a boss is doing 300-1000 damage, 20% reflection adds a not insignificant amount of hate)
SK: "During Mob Boss raids, get ready to sit in the back seat: you’re going to either have to outlevel all other tanks by a lot, or use your clout in the alliance to get a chance to tank. Generally, the raid party is a lot safer and much easier to keep alive if the main tank is …well, not you. Low HP means the all important bishop heal, restore life, will be the weakest in your case. When you are at 4000 hp and the raid boss is doing 1000 a hit while mana draining you at the same time, you and the healers will be sweating for the entire ordeal. It’s hard to argue how your guard stance’s pdef makes up for the fact that the human has twice (or more) your HP fully buffed (guard stance, which depending on level and setup, about meets Majesty pdef…yet another constant argument between human and elf tanks). It’s been known for an SK or two to tank every now and then, so don’t give up total hope!"
So, really,
The best tank for tanking a raid boss will be in the order of HP-Tank Paladin, HP-Tank DA, TK, PVP-Tank Paladin, PVP-Tank DA, then SK. The Paladin's undead pdef passives and the class's general lack of problems when going +dex and +con make it most likely to be your first choice. DAs are generally more common, and the differences are not much. However, TKs will be a better choice than any PVP tank setup. If they've gone -con, which most "PVP" tanks tend to do, a TK will be superior, as long as they haven’t gone -con too. Sad to say, the SK is last on the list. Low con and guard stance just doesn't cut it. If you have decent rechargers, guard stance can be kept up for the entire boss, but that mana really needs to be spent on hate.
A summary is,
So, if you're rolling a toon to be a great raid boss tanker, become a paladin, and go +4dex -4 str, +4 con -4str. With proper bufs and levels, all tanks will shield block 100%, even with low dex. Next best would be DA, since they have a self-damage reflection buf.
Raid Boss Tanking, 101
The raid tank group is the most important group to put together well. If it's not, no matter the number of nukers you have, you're all going to die. My personal favorite setup is a tank, two bishops, two SEs, two EEs, a sword singer, and a warcryer. With this setup, you have plenty of MP regen for the bishops (your main healer) and rechargers for the tank. Plus, you have two people with a 30% heal. When the raid boss does 300-1000 damage a hit to a tank AFTER the shield block (damage depending on your level and level of the boss, of course) several 30% heals are very important. Alternatively, you could swap out one of the rechargers for a BD, who does only song of concentration. Alternatively, swap out one of the healers for another tank. At the very bare minimum, I would recommend two bishops and two rechargers on the healer side. A swordsinger is NOT optional: song of earth, warding, and vitality are a must. Because the 30% heal is so important for healing in a raid, having a tank with the most HP is usually more useful than one with a slightly better armor set.
For tank bufs, give ONLY defensive bufs, and haste: If the tank has to be smacking on the mob, you've already failed the raid. Shield, Majesty, a damage-reflection buf, bless shield, advanced block, Evasion (every little bit helps, even more so on elves), Acumen, Haste, Prayer (the higher the better), Body of Avatar/BTB, Resist stun, Magic Defense buf are all very important. Alternatively, resist poison, or mental shield could be added based on the mob. However, keep the tank at under 12 bufs before the raid. This is because the tank is going to need 1 more spot for UD, three more for songs, (1 more for a dance, sometimes).
A tank, even with UD and swordsinger bufs, should always be at about 17 bufs at most. This is due to many raid boss' lovely desire to debuf everyone. If even one or two of the tank's bufs roll off, everyone is in trouble. Keeping three spots for safety pretty much guarantees the bufs won't roll off.
Personally, I like a warcryer for my tank group buffer. This is because in raids where the Raid Boss has an aoe cancel, I can ensure that everyone in the tank party has bufs within about three seconds of the raid boss canceling, which makes sure the raid lives.
During a Raid,
The lead tank should be coordinating with the alliance leaders and the DD groups. The alliance leader should be managing the raid, but the Tank is the one that should be calling the shots of when to start. If a dd group isn't quite ready when the raid starts, it's no big loss. If a tank group isn't ready, it's disaster. The tank himself should count down for the 'go'. I use the same general form for each boss I go to. First, I say out loud (since many times people aren't in your alliance and are participating in the raid) "EVERYONE GOES ON MY COUNT" or something along that vein. I count down from 5, and everyone goes on "Go". On 4, song of vitality goes up, on 3, song of earth, and on 2, song of warding. On 1, I UD (occasionally optional) and hate the mob (or aoe hate if it's a group mob). THEN, on "GO", everyone starts attacking. This tactic has a few advantages: you get extra hate on all the mobs before anyone even starts hitting it, your swordsinger knows what dances to do when, and the thin line between death and reward has complete control over the situation.
When you are doing multiple raids in a night, and you’re a single tank, I recommend saving UD for bosses that have minions. If a raid boss has minions, it generally has a weaker attack than if it’s a solo raid boss, and makes up for it with the minions. Make sure to have people kill all the minions first, and then go after the main one. If you’ve got a decent raid party, all or most of the minions should be dead before UD fades. If you’re fighting a solo boss, and you are relying on UD to survive the boss, you’re probably fighting something too high for your raid.
The tank should be doing nothing but hating the raid boss the entire time. As such, he must be kept recharged by the elf healers in his party. His job is to keep the boss on him, and nothing more. If the tank is decently high, and has good EE shield block bufs, he’ll be blocking every hit, and taking between 300 and 1000 damage a hit from the raid boss or minons. Properly buffed, your tank will have between 6000 and 10000 hp, depending on tattoos and set bonuses. Make sure that you work out among the healers who will heal when. It’s OKAY for the tank to not be at full health. Keeping him at around 70% HP means he’ll have about a 4500-7000 reserve. The tank should report to his healers about how much he’s being hit for, and the healers should know how much they heal the tank for. If a raid is taking a long time, or you have a smaller raid, how the healers conserve their mana while healing will be the difference between success and alliance wipe. Rechargers, make sure the tank always has mana. He must be able to hate constantly. Even a three or four second lack of MP is enough for a nuker to draw agro and get killed.
In conclusion,
Raid tanking can be done by any class. A high-con human tank will almost always be the best, because they have the highest possible hp. Cubics don’t really help that much, but every little bit helps. Guard stance can be kept up with a decent party, but it’s an extra MP drain that could be avoided if you just took a human. A good tank party needs to work together, communicate before and during the raid, and must, at all costs, make sure the tank is buffed and has mana. The raid drops await you! Claim them now!
I play a lvl 58 TK on Sieghart. Full Doom set,+3 Damafocus, fully enchanted BO set, +3Dex-3Str(As fast as a human on a strider^^) +3wit -3Int Tattoos. This has been my main since Beta with a break to AW in C2 (couldnt resist and at lvl 35ish my elven knight started to get rly boring) I like TK's because they die rly Hard and are superfast. I also like the fact they are rly rare so when i hit top lvl it will be a nice and not to common accomplishment.
I am not to worried by the gimped Knight/Tank i am at the moment. I have been playing lineage since lin1 Beta days and if i learned one thing about NCSoft gimped classes will eventually be rewarded, believe me Knights/Tanks will get their glory days.
As for tanking goes i think the best TankClass Is not a rly interesting to discuss Tanking is all about Skill Keeping the party alive is what u should be good at. Human Elf DE all have their pros and cons. If played well they will be usefull to any group that needs some defensive power. If played Badly the group will die.
I am not to worried by the gimped Knight/Tank i am at the moment. I have been playing lineage since lin1 Beta days and if i learned one thing about NCSoft gimped classes will eventually be rewarded, believe me Knights/Tanks will get their glory days.
Our glory days were Pre-beta and Prelude. We've had our time already :(
PS: "rly" is spelled "Really". The owl-thing was wrong.
What's your patk with -3 str and a focus dama +3? On white mobs, what do you normal hit for and what do you crit for with full prophet buffs, for example? And what's your crit rate, unbuffed, buffed with focus 3, and buffed with focus 3 and song of hunter?
What's your patk with -3 str and a focus dama +3? On white mobs, what do you normal hit for and what do you crit for with full prophet buffs, for example? And what's your crit rate, unbuffed, buffed with focus 3, and buffed with focus 3 and song of hunter?
Lol I aint got a clue, i am doing fine at solo and tanking/crowdcontrol I have a health aoba for RaidBosses I chose dex Tat because i like to crit alot and i like high speed. I have a low damage output anyway even with +3 Str. I think Crit Rate is the thing to go for as a TK this will give highest DoT imho. I am not the person to dig deep into stats and stuff i go more by feel and logic.
Also known as trial and error.
Great write up! I want to start a tank alt, but I don't know which one to pick! I think I am going to either choose a TK or DA. Anyone care to comment on which I should pick and why?
Pretty good write ups Glav, even tho i didn't read the raid boss one. I honestly feel bad for TK and Pala since they do seem to have such a boring class to play imo, they need soem more fun skills.
A few points i would like at say that have come up:
Ima Dark Avenger
Pvp Sucks, We cant beat anyone but melee chars without offensive skills.
A DA should be able to beat an equal lvl archer most of the time. Look here (http://www.l2blah.com/showthread.php?t=6751) for a nice PvP video including several times where a solo DA won vs archer and phophet. Tanks get several skills (well DAs at least) that make them very good vs archers.
Tanks are just that. They are designed to take damage. True that DD's (destroyers, Glads, BH) can all do a half job at tanking but will consitantly need healing. Raids need tanks.
While it is true that for Raid mobs you will need a true tank, besides that they are only needed in ABG AoE groups. But with both WC and SE getting VR (and almost every group at higher lvls having one or the other, if not an outside SE) a true tank will actually need more healing, use more healer MP then a DD tank. In a group with DD (gladi/destroyer/dagger) tank, most of the time the "tank" will only be getting hit about 1/2 the time. So after the mob starts to attack a different person, the amount of HP that was lost will get gained back while the mob is hitting someone else. Basically VR heals any HP lost to the group. Most of the time an SE in a group acts to buff VR/emp and recharges. Might need to use a group heal once or twice a buff round.
A hate tank normally will hold aggro longer then a DD tank, and get much less HP back from VR. Currently (in B grade gear at lvl 74) i have 1225 p attack, 1k p def, about 6.5k hp with full buffs (phophet/sws/bd including zerk) The 2 or 3 times more p attack i have vs a hate tank will more then make up the .3-.4 times more p def a hate tank would have over me when adding in what VR can do.
On top of that, a DD as tank will increase the kill rate for the group. Would you rather have a toon which has 1200+ p attack or a toon with 500 p attack hitting the mob?
Not saying that hate tanks are not good for a group, but they are really not needed in most groups. Some hate tanks are very good, but that has more to do with their ability to target fast and pick good targets 1st, not which class they play. Hate tanks might make the group "safer", but since i haven't died in PvE in about 6 months most of the time i think PvE is pretty safe no matter who tanks.
I have been in groups with all kinds of "tanks", TH, AW, Sws, Bd, all the "hate" tanks and they all worked fine. Hopefully for those hate tanks out there NS Soft will make you guys more needed in the future for stuff besides Raid bosses.
I am not to worried by the gimped Knight/Tank i am at the moment. I have been playing lineage since lin1 Beta days and if i learned one thing about NCSoft gimped classes will eventually be rewarded, believe me Knights/Tanks will get their glory days.
Our glory days were Pre-beta and Prelude. We've had our time already :(
PS: "rly" is spelled "Really". The owl-thing was wrong.
Informative post. but... forgive my arrogance when I say nothing new to me. :cool:
I usually have a designated targeter, despite complaints from party members that they're used to targetting off tanks.
And what do you mean our glory days are over? We're still the same as we've always been. :mad:
Somebody mentioned the Warlord. Warlords have an aggression bulding skill (aoe).
PS: on tattoos, I had +2dex/-2con, worked decent in pvp with doom hvy.
going for +4dex/-4str, +2dex/-2str. and Nightmare Hvy. and a focused Damascus.
What's your patk with -3 str and a focus dama +3? On white mobs, what do you normal hit for and what do you crit for with full prophet buffs, for example? And what's your crit rate, unbuffed, buffed with focus 3, and buffed with focus 3 and song of hunter?
wow, too bad I am at work and can't get you exact mumbers.
At 65 as a TK (I know still a lowbie).
With Doom set and a +3 dama w/ focus
Damage on white mobs averages 180-200 a hit(with SS),Crits go for about 500. With BD dances I crit for about 800 or so.
If you want to add in storm cubic damage. It does about 400 damage per hit.
As others have said, and PigTailz has pointed out, we just aren't needed any more.
(other than the ocassional ABG group, or clan raids)
Being a tank was a joy in prelude and C1. Where you were what kept people alive in Cruma. Tank died, everyone died. LOL
But now we're just not needed. If you go with a group and hunt in DN or ToI , you hate but it pulls off you in no time, so the damage is spread out. So how valuable is the hate to begin with? With DD's all doing damage it would pull between them for the same effect.
If your hunting with an Archer, then trying to keep hate is a funtion in futility.
So to sum it up.
1) we have no real role in PvP anymore (other than raids)
2) we have no real role in PvP anymore(or ever)
3) looking at C4, other than a few nifty skills at 78, nothing is going to change
Sadly, I don't see NCSoft helping us out, or even listining. So for new folks, I never suggest playing a Tank.
Since our one job left is raid bosses. There is always a higher level tank around than you will be. So starting or playing a tank now is pointless.
Trust me, there is no joy to be a lowbie tank in a clan or alliance that has a few other higher level tanks avalible. You feel (and are really) totally worthless.
Only reason I sign on anymore is to spend time with friends in game. What other reason is there to continue on with a broken class that NCSoft refuses to fix?
Please clear up what the problem is with TK's in 1v1 combat.
I recently witnessed a battle between a 70 TK and a 73 gladiator.
TK was in doom and aboa, not sure of tats
Glad was in dual kesh and tallum.
TK won surprisingly quickly with 3600 hp remaining.
They then fought again both fully buffed. with prophet buffs.
Once again the TK came out on top with over 2k hp remaining. Gladiators are second only to destroyers in melee damage so wherein lies the statement that tk sucks at pvp?
Speed, entangle, and awesome pdef/deflect arrow/shield block allows them to stand toe to toe with any archer. Daggers... haha yea right.
Decent hp and good mdef make them difficult for nukers to kill.
only class i could imagine cutting through a tk would be maybe an sk or destroyer.
thoughts?
Actualy a TK can stand toe-to-toe with a lot of melee classes and archers 1 on 1.
But PvP is rarely 1 on 1. Our kill speed is just too slow to be a factor. We are really just a pain in the butt in mass PvP.
So we are left to entangle the other groups archers, and run around trying to bleed CP so the real DD's can get the kills. But basically we are ignored until everyone else is dead first.
The biggest reason TKs get or have a bad reputation is that everyone stopped playing them and rerolled. So most peoples perceptions on the TK are based still on the ones they knew/fought who never got passed thier 50s.
I dont think the tank's job is to keep agro on the mob the group is fightin, its to keep agro on the mobs that are also attacking the group. If you are a fast targeter too, that should mix in nice and make you wanted for parties.
I dont think the tank's job is to keep agro on the mob the group is fightin, its to keep agro on the mobs that are also attacking the group. If you are a fast targeter too, that should mix in nice and make you wanted for parties.
Yep. As it is impossible for any tank to hold aggro from an archers crit or nuke damage. You hate the mob and try to hit it first. Then use hate aura to get the attention of any adds.
When the mob is close to death you should be targeting and using hate to pull another mob or group to your party. Best XP is obviosly when your not having to run all around. So just use hate to pull to the group.
Only time this might cause a problem is when people are too quick to switch targets. People in a group, especialy a mixed group just seem to double click assist tank constantly.
(hate when the sitting prophet gets aggro, you turn to hate it off him and half your DDs run over there, even though the mob your fighting is only half dead)
If your with a group that knows to keep killing each mob until dead. That way your group can be in middle of a room, and you can switch and hate pull to keep a constant mob stream up. (obviously this doesn't work in larger areas like 9th floor toi or double room in DN, ect)
I just rolled an SK, believe it or not I like tanking. i realized that tanking wise, SK was the least powerful but damage wise the most powerful. I have witnessed tank vs tank PVPs were the SK decimated others, even higher level. Such as a lv 61 Sk vs a lv 64 (I think) TK, I don't remember the equips.
Anyway, I like tanking but also being compitant in damage dealing, I would LOVE some more Con, but killing my Dex is out of the question and I'm not exicted about killing my Str, how much Patk and whatnot do I loose, per 1 lost Str?
On the flip side, I have also wanted to INCREASE my Dex and Str, thus killing my Con, making me a pretty worthless tank, but more of a DD. I do NOT use shields, I absolutely adore two handed swords, so thats what I use, I have been laughed at for this but I like them and its my character. I will use the weapons I want to. Currently, I am using a Flamberge with Crit. Damage, when I have the cash I will upgrade to a Zerker sword, and probably get Haste on it, does haste on that weapon help much?
After reading this the idea of using a SoWD (with empower most likely) also seems attractive because of the drains and debuffs.
Can a SK use +Men -Int? As a Dark Elf we have plenty of Int to spare, and the increased MP and Mdef would help greatly.
Ok i just saw this thread and i was overjoyed being that my main is a DA. :) but anyways i'e heard lots of stuff about how DA's suck. and that in PVP there terrible and in PVE they cant kill a **** thing. I just wanna ncoruage anyone going DA...or any tank for that matter that you are just that a tank. You aren't meant to kill massive amount of mobs a or other toons. You are a meatshield, you take thew hits and stop the enemy its its tracks. Yes you can solo if your are a knight but you must remeber DA's and PAly's are highly reliable on gear. Soo if you wanna solo or pvp a lot your gonna need best gear and then prolly all of it must be enchanted max. Soo yea dont go out thinking youre gonna be the fastest killer or do the most damage its not your job. But from my experience whent he smoke clears and everyone is lying on the ground its usually the tanks that are still standin.
:cool:
Just a few commentsand apologies for quasi-hi-jacking the thread …
Anyway, I like tanking but also being [competent] in damage dealing, I would LOVE some more Con, but killing my Dex is out of the question and I'm not [excited] about killing my Str. On the flip side, I have also wanted to INCREASE my Dex and Str, thus killing my Con, making me a pretty worthless tank, but more of a DD.
You can certainly experiment to suit your playing style or the situation. If you solo most of the time, decreasing your CON and increasing your other stats isn’t necessarily a bad idea. However if you group more and are used as the primary tank or puller, -CON will probably lead to you getting stunned/shocked/slept/etc., more often and your party wiped out.
I do NOT use shields, I absolutely adore two handed swords, so that’s what I use, I have been laughed at for this but I like them and its my character. I will use the weapons I want to.
For C grade and much of B grade you can get by with duals solo PVE. But group PVE, you are already cursed with low hp. Why take more hits than you need to? Why put that strain on your healers? Get a shield and put your masteries to good use. Yeah, keep those duals for photo ops, parades and showing off the uberness of the SK, but don’t expect too many to take you seriously if you ever have to look for a group. Space is limited. Why use a spot for an SK with duals when you can add another archer, nuker, or other support class?
Currently, I am using a Flamberge with Crit. Damage, when I have the cash I will upgrade to a Zerker sword, and probably get Haste on it, does haste on that weapon help much?
Haste, when it was 8%, was a wonderful thing. Now it’s only 4% or something like that, so you would reap more benefits from having a Focus SA, all things being equal.
Can a SK use +Men -Int? As a Dark Elf we have plenty of Int to spare, and the increased MP and Mdef would help greatly.
I’ve experimented with a couple of the “mage” dyes, and came to the conclusion that I liked adding either the +WIT or the +INT tattoo. If you’re just toying around, add one of these tattoos, get buffs of Acumen, Empower & Wild Magic and then go soloing some mobs your level. Hilarious when you get a mage crit on a drain!
Heh, ok well I'll throw in my 2 cents.
I play a Temple Knight, my tats are as follows:
+1dex-1str
+2dex-2str
(+3-3 for those who have a hard time with math)
Depending on what and where I am tanking I swap from a +4 aoba (health) and a +3 Tallum Blade (haste). The aoba was better for aoe and raid bosses, the sword is for parties where VR helps ALOT. I'm using a +3 /+4 DC heavy set.
Now... heres where it gets tricky, I still only have lvl 1 shield fort, with lvl 1 I can still regen mp and keep it active, and it helps ALOT.
Sadly though, parties are few and far between on Hinde for tanks. Yet, I've kinda set out to prove TK's are good pvpers, only things I have problems killing are dorfs & anything that stuns, and mages. Archers and De's though, easy as pie ^^.
I Play Shillen Knight. Right now im 58 with doom set +0, dama+0+focus, i dont wear any tatoos.
I Can PvE hunting green mobs with selfbuffs and no cubics, i rarely use bsps on drain. But exp goes slow this way (1-2% in 20 mins)
With support buffs i can hunt down white mobs with ease, i get 2-4% until buffs wear out.
I dont get party invitations though :/ must be becouse everyone things taht sk is the worst tank ingame.
Well...obout PvP SK's are good vs meele, but its hard to kill a archer or mage becouse of stupid "hit a running target from behind with simple attack is impossible becouse the char simply follows him" thing.
Although i killed a spellhowler yesterday becouse Lightining Strike skill worked.
I Play Shillen Knight. Right now im 58 with doom set +0, dama+0+focus, i dont wear any tatoos.
I Can PvE hunting green mobs with selfbuffs and no cubics, i rarely use bsps on drain. But exp goes slow this way (1-2% in 20 mins)
With support buffs i can hunt down white mobs with ease, i get 2-4% until buffs wear out.
I dont get party invitations though :/ must be becouse everyone things taht sk is the worst tank ingame.
Well...obout PvP SK's are good vs meele, but its hard to kill a archer or mage becouse of stupid "hit a running target from behind with simple attack is impossible becouse the char simply follows him" thing.
Although i killed a spellhowler yesterday becouse Lightining Strike skill worked.
Well you have to be a little more creative with your character. No tats, no cubics, a safe Doom Heavy which gives you lots more HP, but doesn't enhance your natural strength in any way (detracts from it actually), and a +0 Dama with Focus. Yes, all cookie cutter, right out of the box setup which means that you will definitely take longer to xp PVE and not attractive enough for most groups. PVP with this set up you probably aren't going to be that successful either. After all you are competing with others who have tats and utilize their skills to the fullest. If you build your character just right, you will be ok. As it stands, you are going to hate life when you get 60+ with that setup. You think xp is slow now. Just wait.
As for groups, if played right and with the right accompanying classes, you can be a serviceable tank in groups. I've done it before, so trust me when I say SK's can be better tanks/haters/pullers than most give them credit. :D
Despite being lvl 48 SK... I fear I am a somewhat rubbish tank! :o I'd appreciate any tips from the experts, especially as to how to be effective in the catas.
Many thanks in advance
TIPS ON TANKING
Make use of social-ness and agroness. Yeah, you're going to loose agro fairly quickly on most mobs (depending on your group) but in the end, if it gives half the damage to you and half on someone else, which saves the healer mana.
Building hate on one social mob builds hate on all of them. If two social mobs are near each other, hate one and then attack the other. This builds hate on both the mobs, but more on the one you hated. By attacking the other mob, you start to build more hate on it. Let me explain how this works (it's a new annoying 'feature' of C3, so learn to tank to it). I'd estimate that when you hate a single, social target, it builds half hate on all social mobs in the area. Scenereo 1: you attack the mob you hated. Other people start attacking it, building hate on all the mobs attacking you. One person goes over half your hate poer on the other mobs. This sends a signal to all the social mobs to now attack the guy who went over half the hate power. Scenereo 2: Attack the add. Now, you are building hate on the mob which had half the hate power added to its hate value, and DDs in your group have to overcome the full hate power on the mob you originally hated, thus keeping the mobs on you longer.
Make sure to know when to AoE hate. If two mobs that are not social are near each other, don't do an aoe hate! In the case that three mobs are near each other, two are not social, but those two are social with the third mob, make sure to still attack the non-social mob first. That way, you have only two attacking you and not three. Then, make sure to attack that doubly social mob before anyone else. When you then attack the mob that's social with the rest, it will then pull the last mob you havn't been fighting one onto you. I'm uncertain if the 'social hate' works here or not, you may have to experiment.
Save AoE hate for dangerous situations, ie, three or more mobs already attacking you. In those situationsOne stray mob and you're going to be toast.
You don't have to hate every mob! This is the first mistake of many tanks. Just agroing a mob by runing into it's agro radius builds a substantial amount of hate. If you do this at about 2 seconds before the mob your group is currently fighting dies, you can get the first couple hits in on the new mob, building even more agro for yourself.
SKs, as many of you already know, hex is your best friend. It casts just a little bit slower than hate, and builds a decent amount of agro, plus the added side effect of less pdef to eat through.
Human Tanks (and very high level c4 TKs and SKs), never, ever, ever shield stun the mob you're currently attacking while in a party. Learn to use your stun as an 8 second melee sleep, because, that's basically what it is now. Use it to stun adds, and it will stay up the whole 8 seconds. That usually gives you enough time to kill the mob you're currently fighting, thus reducing the number of mobs you have to fight. In c4, all tanks will be able to do this at very high levels.
(I'm honestly very jealous of the TK and SK's shield stun, because it will use about 1/3 of the mana the human's stun does. Here's hoping it works about that much less, too :p ;) )
This is good advice , but Hate Aura is by far one of the best skills. Social non-aggro mobs can be pulled one at a time if they are standing right next to eachother with hate aura. This is dude to the limited range of Hate Aura. So.... If you're in the Catas and ya don't want both Lillams chillin next to eachother... use Hate Aura so that you only cast hate on one of them... the run to your party ^^ ya just gotta have a Knack/eye for it ^^
Jode 61 TK Lionna
If ya got the Cash .... TK would have to be the best NON STOP solo tank =) At lvl 60 with cubics up we can Pawn all of the Undead west of Blazing Swamp. It goes like this ..... Tk's fast attack speed will get in 4 hits before the Storm Cubic goes off for 350-500 dmg .... after like 2-3 mobs the HP cubic will heal for 330 HP and somethimes if you rebuff it will keep healing. 330 + 330 + 330 + 500 HP from self heal with BSSB = all of your HP back at a little MP cost =) Since we don't have to waste MP on hex and sting we can just use our cubics to do almost all of our dirty work and healing, and when the HP cubic feels like bein lazy we can do that self heal for 500.
TK SOLO POWA !!!!! I soloed almost all of 40s- 61
With the excepion of the times we be grindin in Cuma ^^
Good ole dayz =p
and one more thing ..... TK SK duo .... a fine match indeed. TK takes the damage and lets the HP cubic do it's job and the SK murders the crap outta the mob =)
Heh, ok well I'll throw in my 2 cents.
I play a Temple Knight, my tats are as follows:
+1dex-1str
+2dex-2str
(+3-3 for those who have a hard time with math)
Depending on what and where I am tanking I swap from a +4 aoba (health) and a +3 Tallum Blade (haste). The aoba was better for aoe and raid bosses, the sword is for parties where VR helps ALOT. I'm using a +3 /+4 DC heavy set.
Now... heres where it gets tricky, I still only have lvl 1 shield fort, with lvl 1 I can still regen mp and keep it active, and it helps ALOT.
Sadly though, parties are few and far between on Hinde for tanks. Yet, I've kinda set out to prove TK's are good pvpers, only things I have problems killing are dorfs & anything that stuns, and mages. Archers and De's though, easy as pie ^^.
I am currently trying tats after reading a post of some SWS that subs an orc and her SWS had only a little less P-atk than the Orc which had a mere 31 Str. I did a test on my TK where I got some - 2 Dext and +2 con. I was hoping that due to the game play style that said LE were quick I would not be nerfed so bad. To my supprise I only lost 2 speed and very little Atk Speed. I was amazed to say the least. With a personal WW2 all the time I get 174 speed and with the +2 con +300 hp = freakin sweet And , as a final note, TK are = to pally you monkies in tanking undead =p Look at the skills >.> Our def. against Undead is equal due to the lvl 2 Holy armor passive<and thank god it's still passive and not toggle like people said it was gonna be X.x> the only real difference is Pally get a AOE - str to undead ..... but why nerf them with weak Atk when TK can AOE root the undead bastages.
< takes a breath>
Jode lvl 61 TK lionna
TK fo Life BABY !! :cool:
GOO!!!!!!! BARTZ THE MOST UNSTABLE ECONOMIC SERVER OUT THERE WOOT WOOT..... anyways had to rep.
i play as a SwS so i guest ya really dont think SwS are tanks.... but i beg to differ although we suck at taking damage .. but with our lovely songs were an unstoppable dominating force for about approxiamintly 2 minutes so i think u should include SwS as a tank class just my personal feeling...