What do you players of L][ think about NCSoft allowing players to train afk shops in town?
Seems kinda like the bug where players were able to pvp/pk in towns.
On sieg there is a player that is doing it and states that the GMs and the officials at NCSoft actually condone/allow this acivity.
If training mobs into town is allowed all I can say is make your own dwarf to craft your SS and other items. Of buy it from farmers; I'm not going to leave my high level dwarf out to be sacked by someone.
And if it is allowable to train mobs in the "safe zone" then bring back open PvP/Pk in towns.
What do you other players thinik of this activity? ready to make your own dwarf for crafting? or are you going to use a level 10 dwarf to craft a couple 100 CBP? it shouldn't take more than a couple of hours to craft that much on a low level toon that someone will not care if it looses xp. -- if this is the way it is going to be then craft your weapon b/c I wont waste my online time sitting up a craft shop waiting for someone to click a button.
If someone is doing this with the uber mercenaries from the castles then report them. Somewhere sometime ago it was deemed a bannable offense and was not part of the intendended game mechanics. However I have not seen a ruling on regular game mobs although a statement may have been said about this.
It's regular game mobs that are being used. Yeah, it's not the mercs from the castles. I'd like to also know if it is okay to do this ^^ I do it with my SK to bots and farmers out in the country side all of the time - get a train of mobs, run to the bots/farmers and if they stop fighting mobs I just use confuse and let the mobs attack them; never have done it in town but hey, it may ba allowed. But if it is leagle/non-banable than I guess the afk shops can be farmed all of the time, all day/night long.
Who's gonna craft for you? Is Bss available through the NPC shops?
I suppose it's time to get organised and see to it that towns get defended, or move to RT. However, it is legal behaviour - there's something about that in the reasoning for not banning SP after training the mercenaries, but I don't feel like looking for it.
Mercs are mobs too, that was a stroke of genius to train them into towns. NPCs are NPCs, no difference except that some spawn in towns and others don't.
But as far as guarding the towns, I'm not going to waste my time on that and I'm not going to rely on someone else doing it.
Make your own dwarf or make sure you know someone that is has one and is online when you want your stuff crafted and they don't mind loosing their play time so they can craft for you.
Believe me, if it is okay to do this - lots of people will make alts for this purpose.
there used to be an annoucement about it;
NC saying that if you loose xp or items inside town you should petition.. right after the Merc of Dawn "incident" on Erica.
I think they dont allow this..
It should be in the community board, but its not. (the place where its listed the past annoucements)
I hope they didnt change the police about this O.o
strange, about losing xp in town: so i hit a mob, run into town, die and then ask gm "pretty please return my xp and items". if so just make guards attack mobs inside towns (very easy to implement)
strange, about losing xp in town: so i hit a mob, run into town, die and then ask gm "pretty please return my xp and items". if so just make guards attack mobs inside towns (very easy to implement)
Agree, adjust the guards so they actually do their job. I never understood why those guards never stopped mobs entering towns. I hate to make a comparison but in WoW the guards patrol and attack the mobs if they are in their vicinity.
The difference between a regular mob and an elite mercenary siege guard is quite a bit.
On one hand, you have a (at most) level 50ish, 1x hp mob that won't agro you except by force of another player, and is easilly dispatched. Any decently high level character sitting in town, especially dwarfies, will be relatively impervious to them. To get these mobs to attack a person, very special care is is needed in the form of confusion or mass confusion. Basically anyone walking by could dispatch these mobs easilly.
On the other hand, you have a siege mercenary, which by design is an extremely powerful unit that automatically fights anyone not signed up for defending the castle, and are about as hard to kill as a raid boss...something that most individuals cannot accomplish.
Seems it's a bit different to me.
I did witness this 'event' while shopping today. They tried so hard...bringing in mobs. A couple of nukers were standing there, aoe nuking them to death in single hits, some of the mobs just standing around looking stupid, and an overlord furiously casting his seal of confusion while being battle healed. Several low level dwarfies died, many players were being hit, but the mobs died before the player store did. Seemed pretty risky for everyone involved.
As it is forbidden to lure mercs into town, the same would apply to luring raidbosses or huge groups of mobs into town with the purpose of attacking afk shops.
I say, give the GM's the names of the criminals so they can be removed from the game.
If someone is purposely training mobs to kill AFK shops, you should be BANNIFIED.
That means, dragging mobs more than once in a short period of time. I was in Dion one day watching this stupid dwarf bring train after train into town, and it's too bad you can't kill them on the spot at that point. They should have at the very least, been 24 hour banned.
If someone is purposely training mobs to kill AFK shops, you should be BANNIFIED.
That means, dragging mobs more than once in a short period of time. I was in Dion one day watching this stupid dwarf bring train after train into town, and it's too bad you can't kill them on the spot at that point. They should have at the very least, been 24 hour banned.
If they were running through town with Mobs, who cares?
If they are doing it with the soul intention of killing an afk shop, ban them.
Can I put in that I will look the other way if someone trains a "Quitting the game, free stuff" buy afk shop.
I would qualify that as the players policing the game themselves as we have so often been told to do.
If someone is purposely training mobs to kill AFK shops, you should be BANNIFIED.
That means, dragging mobs more than once in a short period of time. I was in Dion one day watching this stupid dwarf bring train after train into town, and it's too bad you can't kill them on the spot at that point. They should have at the very least, been 24 hour banned.
Someone was trying this on Hindemith Giran a few weeks ago. I happened to be there and logged on Elro so I attacked and killed the mobs (others did too). The person training tried to explain it with some bs.
Rather than repeatedly killing the mobs in town, why not wait just outside the gate for the player to approach bearing the next group of mobs? Stun Shot/Stun/Hammer Crush should produce a very satisfying effect. And the would-be griefer may drop some of his own gear.
On one hand, you have a (at most) level 50ish, 1x hp mob that won't agro you except by force of another player, and is easilly dispatched. Any decently high level character sitting in town, especially dwarfies, will be relatively impervious to them. To get these mobs to attack a person, very special care is is needed in the form of confusion or mass confusion.
There are no mobs around towns that AOE? And most shop dwarves are level 1. Seems possible to just drag a regular old AOE mob into an edge of town and let it smack ya around until it starts killing off shops around you. Maybe.
Certainly works on those brave souls who actually set up afk shops in catacomb entrances. o.O
The point, I think, is that this behavior should not be allowed in a peace zone. That's the whole point of "going to town". If you can't engage the player while they are doing this, they should not be able to bring in an outside element to do the dirty work for them. In short, if you can't flag the player in town you shouldn't be able to train in town either.
hello any one rember the forth of July event nc soft did this to the towns about 1/2 of the shops were wiped out as for it being wrong ya nc soft should make guards do there dammed job its not too much code make guards attack mobs but nc soft is not fast on any thing so wetzel your a sk get a few blessed and when he’s running to town with it para him! let the mobs kill him and his healer and boom pick up his loot stun him sleep cloud his mobs or just go red on his *** the point is this is a problem nc soft should fix but there response times for this sort of crap is horrid look at the adena field glitch so fix it your self some one loses a B-Grade armor running trains in to town there going to think twice about it next time
Disclaimer: I for once do not agree with the rules.
But here we have word (T_T Why doesn't someone else go look up these posts if I don't wanna, huh?)
HGMspam wrote:
Currently the Nephilim Mercenaries are not working as intended. Due to this fact, they can be abused and trained (dragged) into town.
All future attempts to “train” siege mobs into town will be dealt with by the GM team. The handling of similar incidents will vary depending on the situation but will include the following:
[...]
Any previous incident of this happening is considered fair play as this bug was unknown and could be considered a misinterpretation of current server policy on “mob trains.”
This means, in short, that siege mobs are excempt from this. Raid bosses (outside of events) can not be trained into town due to AI restrictions.
The noticable difference between training a siege mob and a regular mob, by the way, isn't the difficulty - it's the fact that siege mercenaries will not harm their masters, thus posing no risk to them at all.
If there is a significant train going all the way into town, you might want to petition for exploitation of AI though - mobs are programmed to stop giving chase after a while, and that 'stopping to give chase' means that they will even lose social aggro, thereby becoming very difficult to train.
If someone is having an easy time of training them, chances are they're exploiting something.
Or you could find out where the character in question is working, and get a permared toon and/or a griefable character on him - or an AoE group to one-shot his trains.
ETA: I am, indeed, not aware of any AoE mobs near any of the towns - but there are multiple areas close to town I'm not awfully familiar with, such as Skyshadow Meadow and everything near Aden.
Was thinking more on the subject. If training mobs into town to kill people's toons is okay with NCSoft then maybe I could bring in a healer to heal the mobs in town that the "good folks" are trying to kill.
As far as level 1 stores and such, well, a toon that is not over level 5 will not drop anything upon death. I hear that the farmers are the ones that are susposedly targeted in this action - most of them seem to be naked dwarves; think about it, if a farmer had a higher level dwarf wouldn't they be using it to farm with and not set up stores with? The people with the most risk of dropping things are not farmers rather the at risk population is actual players.
As far as having my SK paralize someone - I've already posted my answer to that - I'm not going to waste my time to protect a town; I'd rather do some more PvP, leveling and Raid Bosses. I'll let others waste their time to level up a dwarf for crafting and finding the recipes to craft all that stuff. Shouldn't take very long to gear up and complete the job change quest and get a dwarf to level 49+ so that you can craft the basic high level materials.
I've better things to do than babysit a town, and if NCSoft allows this action one of the better things to do just might be train afk shops ^^ or heal mobs that have been trained into town - all with alts ofcourse.
And the 4th of July event did have warnings ingame and on this site stating the risk of being in towns - that statement right there indicates that NCSoft may see mobs in towns as unplaned or unintended during normal game play.
Was thinking more on the subject. If training mobs into town to kill people's toons is okay with NCSoft then maybe I could bring in a healer to heal the mobs in town that the "good folks" are trying to kill.
There's nothing to stop you from doing this now.
As far as level 1 stores and such, well, a toon that is not over level 5 will not drop anything upon death.
Was thinking more on the subject. If training mobs into town to kill people's toons is okay with NCSoft then maybe I could bring in a healer to heal the mobs in town that the "good folks" are trying to kill.
There's nothing to stop you from doing this now.
As far as level 1 stores and such, well, a toon that is not over level 5 will not drop anything upon death.
Good point. That's why I use newbie dorfs. :)
One of the reasons I'm posting is to see if this is okay to do. And the reason I don't know if it is okay to do is that it seems to go against the definition of a peace zone. But if it's cool, then more power to this type of action and eveyone will need to equip their own dwarf - or buy from farmers; dead afk stores can continue to sell.
No one wants the B Hammer to wing their way ^^
And my newbie warsmith can only craft 2 or 3 cbp per manabar. That's not my problem tho; only the problem for people that ask me to set up afk craftshops over night. Had to decline a request last night ^^ - I don't have enough room in my warehouse for all my craft items, materials and equipement.
-- Dont' get me wrong, I'm not a carebear - I enjoy farming other people; heck, my best drops are from other players. But I have always farmed them out of peace zones and with them having a fighting chance to defend themselves from my actions. This could be a 'new' field to harvest if it is allowable.
As a short-term solution...are the characters doing this clanned? Does their clan leader know what they're doing? Do you think that every other clan on the server killing their clan on sight until they stopped would be a deterrent?
Granted, they'd just start doing it with untagged alts, but you might be able to at least make them suffer for a day or two.
The rule of allowing MOBs to be trained into town was only put into place with the assumption that private store would be unaffected by any MOBs that are lead into town. Shops should not draw aggro at all. There are several AIs that circumvent (Raid boss, Nephilim) the shop feature but MOBs that use this special AI should never be found in town.
This should still be the case, AFK shops should not be attacked by any MOB lead into town. If you are sitting (not in shop) or just standing around there is the potential of being attacked if for some reason aggro is altered (fake death, confuse, madness... etc.)
Also Private stores in town can not be used as an Aggro buster. Meaning if you are in trouble, and run into town and start a store expecting to break aggro.... good luck.
So if there is an instance of MOBs attacking AFK stores in town, I would really like to know about it.
I really think this kind of behavior is atrocious, but hey it's not the first low handed action I've seen in this game. It seems that bad apples come out everywhere and with them come the scammers and other less than ethical characters.
My exception to the original assumption though is that I will continue to setup in Giran overnight. I was up all during the 4th of July event, and I'm not going to let someone of less than ethical character control the way I play the game. So train me all you want, just know that what goes around comes around, maybe not in game, but certainly in life.
Thx HGMSpam, but what about the case of sell shops. Once you sell all of your product you're no longer in a shop, so wouldn't the rule of just standing or sitting around still apply?
The rule of allowing MOBs to be trained into town was only put into place with the assumption that private store would be unaffected by any MOBs that are lead into town. Shops should not draw aggro at all. There are several AIs that circumvent (Raid boss, Nephilim) the shop feature but MOBs that use this special AI should never be found in town.
This should still be the case, AFK shops should not be attacked by any MOB lead into town. If you are sitting (not in shop) or just standing around there is the potential of being attacked if for some reason aggro is altered (fake death, confuse, madness... etc.)
Also Private stores in town can not be used as an Aggro buster. Meaning if you are in trouble, and run into town and start a store expecting to break aggro.... good luck.
So if there is an instance of MOBs attacking AFK stores in town, I would really like to know about it.
Thanks
-spam
HGMspam,
Okay, let's see if I got this right.
1) If a player decides to bring a train into town, and I have a shop set up before they get there, and subsequently die as a result of the train, then I can be reimbursed for any lost items? What about exp?
2) If a player decides to bring a train into town, and I am just loitering (AFK or not), then I'm fair game?
3) Using your statement as a guideline, are there then no real peace zones in the game?
That's how I read it as well, it is okay to train a town.
It is designed that shops will not die/be attacked by mobs as long as the shop is set up well before the arrival of the mobs (and if a shop dies it should not be the player who's training fault that it happened)
And if you are in shop mode and die /GM and let the powers get to work in resolving the issue.
Now that I think about it; it seems like a safe way to regin HP/MP while grinding. Kill all the mobs in an area and before they respawn set up in store mod and regin. And it has been a pain in the butt at times when sitting down to regin HP/MP then have a mob spawn beside me and then I draw agro.
nice feature - though I did see dead shops last night in giran on Sieghardt at about 11pm cst.
Now that I think about it; it seems like a safe way to regin HP/MP while grinding. Kill all the mobs in an area and before they respawn set up in store mod and regin. And it has been a pain in the butt at times when sitting down to regin HP/MP then have a mob spawn beside me and then I draw agro.
This probably needs to be clarified but I believe he meant only in town.
The rule of allowing MOBs to be trained into town was only put into place with the assumption that private store would be unaffected by any MOBs that are lead into town. Shops should not draw aggro at all. There are several AIs that circumvent (Raid boss, Nephilim) the shop feature but MOBs that use this special AI should never be found in town.
This should still be the case, AFK shops should not be attacked by any MOB lead into town. If you are sitting (not in shop) or just standing around there is the potential of being attacked if for some reason aggro is altered (fake death, confuse, madness... etc.)
Also Private stores in town can not be used as an Aggro buster. Meaning if you are in trouble, and run into town and start a store expecting to break aggro.... good luck.
So if there is an instance of MOBs attacking AFK stores in town, I would really like to know about it.
Thanks
-spam
HGMspam,
Okay, let's see if I got this right.
1) If a player decides to bring a train into town, and I have a shop set up before they get there, and subsequently die as a result of the train, then I can be reimbursed for any lost items? What about exp?
This would be handled on a case by case basis. Reimbursment would not be instant
2) If a player decides to bring a train into town, and I am just loitering (AFK or not), then I'm fair game?
YUP!
3) Using your statement as a guideline, are there then no real peace zones in the game?
Peace zone is meant for PvP only. There are no safe zones.
Just want to make sure I got your message. :p
Answers in red above.
I am having this tested and reviewing current policy to reflect the testing.
what about mobs with a aoe atack trained in to town by a higher level he might be be able to take the hits but the lowbie shops might not. so what happens in that case ?
I assume if it becomes too commonplace, people will concentrate more tightly (RT/Giran). Not only are the mobs near Giran less dangerous, there are also usually enough shoppers to swat any threat before it even gets to the first shop.
Just make a lvl 1 dwarf alt to sell stuff in town, they don't drop on death until lvl 5. As for craft stores, don't put any gear on your high lvl crafter. When it takes forever to craft a respectable amount of SS or when thier favorite crafters aren't in town anymore, they will hopefully get the hint and quit the shenanigans.
Gm spam, i have been trying to talk to you in game but so far its been a no go, i have waited on pulling trains into town until after i chat with you in game. it may seem big headed, but this post is about me using my overlord to pull mobs into town, i have used the aoe mirrage skill and madness to throw mobs on to shops IT DOES ATTACK AND KILL SHOPS. try to contact me in game either today or tomorrow either u or another gm, cause im waiting on a reply, robert garriet when i talked to him said that it was not a bannable offence unless it was the siege mobs. well get back to me, im "GOUDE" on the sieghardt server thx man. ill be glad to show/whatever to help ya fix it out if you don't know or if its an issue, but as far as i know/knew it wasn't a glitch. ty
well sps, you would think so, but when you get 3 or 4 friends pulling from different doors and you do it late at night theres not much they can do :/ and in giran its lvl 40+ mobs so they don't die by any person :o i have myself pulled up to 30 mobs and done it by myself, let alone if i had a tank pull and a healer there :/ then you can pull almost any ammount :O
as for Sovrath, no i really didn't put it on the top of my list, i when i talked to the president of the company and he told me that that specific action was not a bannable offence i didn't really worry that much about action being taken against me because from my understanding it was an ok action. i stoped when someone said gm spam said its not a proper action. tried to pm him, but didn't really consider pming him here or going on these boards :/ for the shop to drop something it had to have no armor and be above lvl 4 and have items that wern't in their stash. the mobs only aggro the new target for about 20 seconds, then they return so its pretty much impossible to train anyone thats lvl 30 with armor on :/ even if its a mage.
another thing was i never really got anything from it, i was always casting on the mobs and that kept me busy, anything that droped was picked up by some other person in town :O this happened then they usually pmed me saying ty and i just said happy birthday or in some later cases merry christmas. if your selling off your main you have no problem lol. if your an ebayer with a 2nd naked account or a farmer that isn't equiped you might be in trouble :o
Theres "usually" always a good guy in town who will see a train and kill it for the good players of lineage2, at least i would.
also keep in mind, one of the first trains i pulled got a doom shield drop, and all the shoppers followed me healing mobs. alot of people will want the shops to drop items :o if you can imagine.
sorry for stacking posts, but honestly there should be nothing wrong with it, people in dion can easily be hit (equiped) for 20 secs by any mob and same with giran, the fact is that i alway get the kills off someone with a naked dwarf or a low lvl char. i do think that should be part of the game, i don't want to see some low lvl in a higher lvl area without some risk, and the same to some alt with no armor that some person bought. if your gonna sell your goods do it under YOUR name YOUR tag and don't use some alt to do it because of conflict or because you don't want to move your main out of toi or al. just killing the people that take shortcuts.
The rule of allowing MOBs to be trained into town was only put into place with the assumption that private store would be unaffected by any MOBs that are lead into town. Shops should not draw aggro at all. There are several AIs that circumvent (Raid boss, Nephilim) the shop feature but MOBs that use this special AI should never be found in town.
This should still be the case, AFK shops should not be attacked by any MOB lead into town. If you are sitting (not in shop) or just standing around there is the potential of being attacked if for some reason aggro is altered (fake death, confuse, madness... etc.)
Also Private stores in town can not be used as an Aggro buster. Meaning if you are in trouble, and run into town and start a store expecting to break aggro.... good luck.
So if there is an instance of MOBs attacking AFK stores in town, I would really like to know about it.
Thanks
-spam
HGMspam,
Okay, let's see if I got this right.
1) If a player decides to bring a train into town, and I have a shop set up before they get there, and subsequently die as a result of the train, then I can be reimbursed for any lost items? What about exp?
This would be handled on a case by case basis. Reimbursment would not be instant
2) If a player decides to bring a train into town, and I am just loitering (AFK or not), then I'm fair game?
YUP!
3) Using your statement as a guideline, are there then no real peace zones in the game?
Peace zone is meant for PvP only. There are no safe zones.
Just want to make sure I got your message. :p
Answers in red above.
I am having this tested and reviewing current policy to reflect the testing.
Spam says it's cool to train towns. Says that people in shop before the train arrives are safe. I don't know what their test results were but I know that mine got one of my level 40ish alts killed while in shop mode when a tiger at forsaken plains spawned around it and killed it (yeah, I know, 40ish level toons don't belong there, but I was trying out the shop mode thingy while people in the area were killing mobs - this tiger spawned then killed me and no one was near).
Most people have seen the dead shops and know that shops in town and everywhere else (cats/necros) will get agroed. I believe that all test indicate that.
So, Spam says it's cool to train towns. Says that people in shop before the train arrives are safe --- we all know that information is not correct (guess he has to say what The Man says to say) --- If my shop toon dies I'ma have to /GM and get my xp back and if it drops something it's gonna need to be replaced too.
Hope to see ya in Giran soon :-) As much as I don't want my shop toon (I alternate between a 40ish Scavy and 50ish WS; usually naked tho unless using the toon that day) to die and drop something - it is fun to watch ^^ Maybe there can be a 'black day' were the towns are trained each week. I've already started on my overlord (it was the level 40ish toon that died in shop mode). Though, I didn't start it so that I could train towns, OL is more fun than any of my other toons --- kinda sucks that all of my other toons are wey higher and my 'main' has nearly twice the levels - what a waste of time lol
As far as your reason to do it -- in this game your reason to do it can be "because I can and I want to" -- I respect that, that's usually the reason I give when I do something in game that someone doesn't like at the moment.
Sieghardt is not carebear, but no one wants to get banned for something they didn't know.
The rule of allowing MOBs to be trained into town was only put into place with the assumption that private store would be unaffected by any MOBs that are lead into town. Shops should not draw aggro at all. There are several AIs that circumvent (Raid boss, Nephilim) the shop feature but MOBs that use this special AI should never be found in town.
Emphasis mine. In my reading of this, it implies that stores *in town* will not draw aggro. This would leave plenty of room for stores outside of towns (or non-peace zones) to draw aggro. Setting up a shop in FP proves nothing in that case.
as for Sovrath, no i really didn't put it on the top of my list, i when i talked to the president of the company and he told me that that specific action was not a bannable offence i didn't really worry that much about action being taken against me because from my understanding it was an ok action. i stoped when someone said gm spam said its not a proper action.
I think that's the thing... send him a message on these boards. the few times I did send someone a message in their "board mailbox" I did get a reply... although in some cases it took a few days.
Listen, the idea that you stopped shows that you are a responsible player who wants to play by the rules. I can respect that. Just hold off until you get an official response in writing. Why? Because somone is going to report you thinking what you are doing is "wrong" (I must admit I don't agree with what you are doing but in the end "so what" :) you are playing the game.) If for whatever reason some gm gives you "guff" you are going to need that little bit in writing.
Could you imagine a small group of people bringing multiple trains into Giran at the sametime? Think of all the look to be had! Only thing is non AFK players would most likely wipe the mobs.
The rule of allowing MOBs to be trained into town was only put into place with the assumption that private store would be unaffected by any MOBs that are lead into town. Shops should not draw aggro at all. There are several AIs that circumvent (Raid boss, Nephilim) the shop feature but MOBs that use this special AI should never be found in town.
Emphasis mine. In my reading of this, it implies that stores *in town* will not draw aggro. This would leave plenty of room for stores outside of towns (or non-peace zones) to draw aggro. Setting up a shop in FP proves nothing in that case.
Yeah, that was my own check of it. I have already seen that stores in town draw agro. Just checking if they do outside of town too. --- So, stores anywhere draw agro; this I have seen for myself.
Looking at this issue and keeping in mind that the game is not designed for the stores in town to draw agro - but causing them to draw agro by doing something (confusion on the mobs for an example) could be deemed an exploit - because those stores do draw agro because the game not working as tought to be designed.
as for Sovrath, no i really didn't put it on the top of my list, i when i talked to the president of the company and he told me that that specific action was not a bannable offence i didn't really worry that much about action being taken against me because from my understanding it was an ok action. i stoped when someone said gm spam said its not a proper action.
I think that's the thing... send him a message on these boards. the few times I did send someone a message in their "board mailbox" I did get a reply... although in some cases it took a few days.
Listen, the idea that you stopped shows that you are a responsible player who wants to play by the rules. I can respect that. Just hold off until you get an official response in writing. Why? Because somone is going to report you thinking what you are doing is "wrong" (I must admit I don't agree with what you are doing but in the end "so what" :) you are playing the game.) If for whatever reason some gm gives you "guff" you are going to need that little bit in writing.
Always cover your butt.
no im not joking, i talked to the president of l2, "the god" if you will. he gave me the green, i only stoped because alot of people inside the company seem to be confused on it, im waiting for a revised answer after they talk to each other. i know hgmspam is 1337, i tried to kill him once outside of hunters village, but he still answers to robert :O i just want to know what robert thinks of it now that i did it a few times. if i don't hear any differnce on the matter ill prolly do it alot more till i get a reaction :O they have to pick a side D:
btw, the one person who did answer me in english i gave them back their ring LOL.
here, ill post a picture of it, or you can check a post i made on l2blah, i have it as my sig on there. i had a party of
1necro
2ol (including me)
1se
1prof
2 dwarfs
1 darkelf tank >< forgot the name
1 light elf archer >< forgot name
all were 60 to 70's
jsut pulled in the aggro and i took turns with the other ol doing seal of mirrage, im 68 when i did it so it worked almost 100% on the lvl 40 mobs lol. if someone else can take my sig from that site and post it up it will save me time cause i can't rite now :(
I personally know spam is incorrect. I had a level 2x DE set up in afk shop for the night in Giran a few weeks ago. When I awoke, she was dead and still had items up for sale in her shop. There were other dead bodies around, so I assume Goude or someone else here on Sieghardt, pulled his lil train/confusion trick.
I have also logged on and seen afk shops with the toons dead but there are still items in the shop. Thus while he maybe be right that the shops will not spontaneously pull aggro, they will in fact be targetted if confusion or similar such skills are used.
Personally I think this kind of stunt is a load of ****, but I also acknowledge that its avoidable (ie use a lowbie toon with the Luck skill) and not really prevented by game mechanics (ie the guards on the edge of town wont attack mobs you bring in, unlike EQ2, etc.)
sorry for stacking posts, but honestly there should be nothing wrong with it, people in dion can easily be hit (equiped) for 20 secs by any mob and same with giran, the fact is that i alway get the kills off someone with a naked dwarf or a low lvl char. i do think that should be part of the game, i don't want to see some low lvl in a higher lvl area without some risk, and the same to some alt with no armor that some person bought. if your gonna sell your goods do it under YOUR name YOUR tag and don't use some alt to do it because of conflict or because you don't want to move your main out of toi or al. just killing the people that take shortcuts.
I'm sorry but your logic is misguided. Many people, myself included, set up multiple shops while afk. The game gives you seven, I repeat seven, character slots to make characters as well as the ability to subscribe to more than one account. Who are you to decide what's proper or not for the game? :mad:
Training shops in town is griefing, plan and simple. If you enjoy this type of gameplay, just say so. But don't expect everyone to agree or condone this type of play. As a matter of fact, you don't pay any more than anyone else to play, therefore other opinions carry just as much weight as yours.
btw, you came off much more credible when you owned up to doing it because you wanted to, not some lame excuse. :p
Happy Hunting! :)
edit: I would have responded sooner but I've been distracted by work. :p
it probably 99% chance was me today, after losing a helm i decided to do this. spam or another gm should tend to this matter cause it truely is split down the middle, i can't kill people of the 30's and higher in this area, i only seem to kill the naked dwarfs that seems to almost be exploiting the char carrying size to hold more items, the stash size is a dwarf only benifit, if ur not a dwarf, don't make one to only sell gear, almost seems an exploit from my view. if ur in giran i believe you lvl near there and are well over 30. not only that but your equiped. its not fair to legit players that play one char and don't own a separate account or don't want to do stuff like this. its decietfull, and takes away from the in game politics, things like boycotting are rendered usless now that these people exploit this... anywho im positive more people agree with me because i get about 5 people saying bad for every 10 i get saying good. and its not cause these shops are afk, its usually afterwards.
THIS PART IS IMPORTANT FOR NC
i did infact talk to garriet about this durring a telephone convo, and by him telling me i can't be banned for this action and in fact telling me it is "PART OF THE GAME" tells me it is 100% ok beyond what spam says (you seem unsure even)
this in note, i have other overlords that question me getting banned for this, and more and more i tell them it is legit, it would help yourselves alot to just state a clean answer.
1) people will stop cheating with these shops and realize your image in game will effect your selling, or you can risk it with a low lvl.
2) you will certainly get less pm's when i do train it.
3) people (not me im sure for now untill further notice) will be able to know the defining line, they don't know if i in fact taked to garriet or even know if its something to risk their char on. but i know from our convo that he is what controls l2 above all. but these chars don't know to trust me, so lets define it more.
anywho im done now, but its true, your exploiting the stash size to use it for a char as well as tring to publicly hide your identity, it should be punshable by death.
(to all that wonder if it can kill a lvl 30 or higher, the skill lasts about 10 seconds then the mob runs back on to me, when i use it, "HALF" the mobs are actually effected, where there are 50 shops there has never been a case where one shop has gotten more than one mob on it for 10 secs (the end) and its impossible for me to guide the mob back on the same chars beyond pulling a HUGE impossible train again in teh same area assuring that i have enough mobs for all shops in range and landing it on them all consecutively. durring a pull i usually have a healer, and i hit soulguard which drains mp, and the seal of mirrage uses alot of mp too, so it lasts very short and then i have to sit for mp (aka a lvl 30 easily "even if i pulled consecuitive trains" has time to regen hp)
yes ur char may have died man, but it wasnt ur main, and if it was it was too low to sell in giran. people should be forced through game play like this to shop and sell throughout aden.
when you look at giran the mobs can't kill anyone near lvl 40 and when you get to aden (aka a grade people) the mobs are much to far away for me to pull them in, and they are lvl 40 and do nothing to the players inside. gotta keep in mind this is fair play :)
thats all i got :P class is out :P but ponder that :O
Your writing style is about as opaque as your logic, so here's the short version, with a bit of commentary:
You know someone who can pull rank on HGMSpam, and this person says that all forms of training cities is legitimate regardless of what the GMs say. This could get interesting.
You also have a bunch of excuses about wanting to encourage people to use higher-level characters to set up shop (you're doing the opposite), or wanting to encourage people to spread themselves around Aden instead of all staying in Giran (looks like someone failed economics). Griefers always have an excuse to be pro-choice poster children, nobody buys it but muddying the waters is a common way for a coward to "justify" his actions.
Your writing style is about as opaque as your logic, so here's the short version, with a bit of commentary:
You know someone who can pull rank on HGMSpam, and this person says that all forms of training cities is legitimate regardless of what the GMs say. This could get interesting.
You also have a bunch of excuses about wanting to encourage people to use higher-level characters to set up shop (you're doing the opposite), or wanting to encourage people to spread themselves around Aden instead of all staying in Giran (looks like someone failed economics). Griefers always have an excuse to be pro-choice poster children, nobody buys it but muddying the waters is a common way for a coward to "justify" his actions.
I would refrain from the use of coward, it could be said that the ppl with the alts selling gear & stuff could be cowards hiding for some imagined reason behind alts.
Other than than you're on target with your views and the views of the majority of people. His reason's are his reasons. I'm like simple answers though, I read what he says but what I read into it is that he does it because the game allows him to do this and he wants to do it and no one stops him.
He seems very concerned to not use the game in such a way as to go against what the game mechanics allow - he does not want to exploit a bug - he's gone as far as contacting the highest person that he can contact in the NCSoft organization to get information on this situation. Maybe the people that are having a hard time stomaching this type of thing hapening need to also call NCSoft and see what they can gather, or email support.
This Gould has done, he has his answers, now he plays the way he wants within the guidelines that we all have to abide with while plaing the game.
Do I do it, no, would I? Only time will tell, my OL is not high enough to think that far ahead :p
I personally think training mobs into town is a lowly, despicable act. Then again, I am basically a marshmellowy loviedovie.
That said, I have to appreciate Goude's candor and even acknowledge some of his points.
I am very big on the "image" issue. Our crafter is a higher level toon set up as a craft shop for A grade items in Giran. It would really tick me/us off if some wahoo trained a mob into town and got him killed... whether or not items dropped, and if they did, doubly so. The toon is this player's main. His reputation is important to him and something we are all proud of, so of course we want HIM set up, not some alt.
But, there are things such as war that can affect whether a main can sell/craft effectively.
Also, whether or not Goude personally likes it, players may have up to 7 characters on their account. The advantage to a dwarf is a higher weight capacity and an additional sell spot.
People using an alt, even if level 1, to set up a legit shop are not exploiting the game. Goude wants to punish players for using a game mechanic that is in no way questionable as an exploit... by using a game mechanic that is debatably an exploit.
That is hypocrisy. It is also arrogance to suggest that one person's methodology is morally superior to another's.
But those attributes are things that Goude is openly willing to defend.
That said, the average scammer is some punk's level 1 alt who never leaves town.
I still don't agree with Goude's actions, but I can say that I have a new appreciation for his opinion on the matter.
I would refrain from the use of coward, it could be said that the ppl with the alts selling gear & stuff could be cowards hiding for some imagined reason behind alts.
I wouldn't, because I don't mind saying that people who make an alt to do types of "business", usually scams, that they wouldn't dare try with their mains are also cowards. They're not mutually exclusive, just one bottomfeeder picking on another.
Other than than you're on target with your views and the views of the majority of people. His reason's are his reasons. I'm like simple answers though, I read what he says but what I read into it is that he does it because the game allows him to do this and he wants to do it and no one stops him.
If he stuck with "because I wanted to, what are you going to do about it?" I'd have a lot more respect. The BS reasons are what I call cowardly--it's the work of someone who isn't willing to stand by his record and say "I did it, this is why, live with it!". Making up excuses is the tactic of someone who is afraid of retaliation, trying to muddy the waters long enough to make an escape.
I'm still very interested in seeing what the staff has to say about a player who has supposedly gone over their heads. If he actually talked with the president of the company, and he has said "it's always legal", then some previous decisions may have to be overturned to reflect that.
You do realize, don't you, that the further up in an organization you go, the less they know about the actual mechanics of how the organization works?
Let me take you all back to a time, the time right after GameGuard™ was implimented:
[/Begin Flashback]
Those of you that were here may recall an interview with some High-Up Mucky Muck in NCSoft. He stated that GameGuard™ "Got rid of reds that blocked choke points." Anyone remember that?
[/End Flashback]
What's the point (as if I ever needed one)? Simply that I would take Spam's word any day of the week over Garriett's.
... spam is lower in the food chain than garriet. but anyways you have to realize when people pk you and when you get trained, they tell you to settle it on your own... why you may ask, well i believe they they do it on a basis of someone having to be the bad guy. in your eyes i may be the bad guy, but to the people picking up the gear and thanking me im the hero, its a rush and i don't mind doing it. someone is always evil. the person that goes red on a dwarf or a noob on a different server is no different.
its like when i play a game where you can be good or bad, like black and white, or fable. i alway act good and do great good, but i can't stay 100% good, i always get 2 red horns poping out cause i wanted to try to kill the whole town just cause i could :/ well thats what this is, i assure you i have pleanty of friends in the game, prolly more than you can immagine me having under the circumstances, but the fact remains, when i feel like making trouble there is no greater high then pvp, and when pvp is frustrating or non existant or i just want a change of pace, i pull trains to giran :O
when you get angry at the dwarfs botting or the people that stole your room, you all have an evil side that tells you to kill them or try to get them drop equipment. if you were as noble as your acting you are, you would turn the other cheek, but we never do, and so is my fate training giran :O
You do realize, don't you, that the further up in an organization you go, the less they know about the actual mechanics of how the organization works?
Let me take you all back to a time, the time right after GameGuard™ was implimented:
[/Begin Flashback]
Those of you that were here may recall an interview with some High-Up Mucky Muck in NCSoft. He stated that GameGuard™ "Got rid of reds that blocked choke points." Anyone remember that?
[/End Flashback]
What's the point (as if I ever needed one)? Simply that I would take Spam's word any day of the week over Garriett's.
<3 the Progres™ bar
dude, all i know is i was banned, i asked a higher up, and he said "in the U S of A im the highest one you can possibly talk to" if i wanted higher i would be talking to an asian long distance. when he said i was unbanned it took 1 min for my account to be unbanned. the guy turns keys no questions asked, so i can't be in the wrong for following their leader.
... spam is lower in the food chain than garriet. but anyways you have to realize when people pk you and when you get trained, they tell you to settle it on your own... why you may ask, well i believe they they do it on a basis of someone having to be the bad guy. in your eyes i may be the bad guy, but to the people picking up the gear and thanking me im the hero, its a rush and i don't mind doing it. someone is always evil. the person that goes red on a dwarf or a noob on a different server is no different.
its like when i play a game where you can be good or bad, like black and white, or fable. i alway act good and do great good, but i can't stay 100% good, i always get 2 red horns poping out cause i wanted to try to kill the whole town just cause i could :/ well thats what this is, i assure you i have pleanty of friends in the game, prolly more than you can immagine me having under the circumstances, but the fact remains, when i feel like making trouble there is no greater high then pvp, and when pvp is frustrating or non existant or i just want a change of pace, i pull trains to giran :O
when you get angry at the dwarfs botting or the people that stole your room, you all have an evil side that tells you to kill them or try to get them drop equipment. if you were as noble as your acting you are, you would turn the other cheek, but we never do, and so is my fate training giran :O
Ya but you be the same person crying holy murder if you got trained in or out of town and lost gear so your a hypocrite.
Also things like training mobs in town and healing and buffing them if you go purple in town you should be able to be killed in town want us to handle it let us handle it if its open pvp make it open pvp no safe zones. Contradicting rules is the problem with this game.
Name Scams
Training in town
Are two things that cannot be handle in game. They have to be handle by gms and its about time they realize this issues cannot be handle in no way shape or form by the player base. You cant pk a name scam toon that never leaves town you cant train them etc so please tell me how you handl that in game? People training and healing mobs in town you every try to kill mobs that are fully buffed getting level 75 bishop and EE heals lol good luck on that when you cannot kill the people healing them which is exploiting SAFE ZONES.
If you go purple you should be able to be killed in safe zones maybe that will make people think twice about healing mobs in town.
You do realize, don't you, that the further up in an organization you go, the less they know about the actual mechanics of how the organization works?
Let me take you all back to a time, the time right after GameGuard™ was implimented:
[/Begin Flashback]
Those of you that were here may recall an interview with some High-Up Mucky Muck in NCSoft. He stated that GameGuard™ "Got rid of reds that blocked choke points." Anyone remember that?
[/End Flashback]
What's the point (as if I ever needed one)? Simply that I would take Spam's word any day of the week over Garriett's.
<3 the Progres™ bar
dude, all i know is i was banned, i asked a higher up, and he said "in the U S of A im the highest one you can possibly talk to" if i wanted higher i would be talking to an asian long distance. when he said i was unbanned it took 1 min for my account to be unbanned. the guy turns keys no questions asked, so i can't be in the wrong for following their leader.
Bully for you. Your probation officer must be very proud.
The question remains though.
Since it obviously works, contradicting to what Spam said, is it condoned?
If a player does kill my wee Arti and I drop whatever I'm selling/buying, what's the chance of actually getting it back?
This thread has turned to the weirdly amusing zone (I know Garriot ...and he personally unbanned me!~).
How is it abusing / cheating / exploiting if I use another char to shop overnight than my main? Hello? O_o
If you see that as exploiting then ask NCSoft to remove those six extra char slots, since people are exploiting them by actually using them. :rolleyes:
Like some already said, stay on target (I do it because I want to and can) because those other posts start to read like some illegal substances were involved in their making. Using ludicrous stuff like that to justify your actions is ... well ... amusing to read, so do keep on, I guess. :D
Bully for you. Your probation officer must be very proud.
Ya but you be the same person crying holy murder if you got trained in or out of town and lost gear so your a hypocrite.
How do you know? But you are incorrect here (your quoted statement throws the rest of your text into the shadows of "is this text what he thinks or does he know"), I remember once he was trained by his own train - had healers healing his mobs I think - and died and droped some equipment. He didn't cry about it.
Also things like training mobs in town and healing and buffing them if you go purple in town you should be able to be killed in town want us to handle it let us handle it if its open pvp make it open pvp no safe zones. Contradicting rules is the problem with this game.
I agree in part, no open pvp but if you are purple in town you should be able to be attacked.
If you go purple you should be able to be killed in safe zones maybe that will make people think twice about healing mobs in town.
The possibility remains, possibly management is learning something here.
1.) The mechanics of the game are not working exactly as was thought.
2.) Careful who you help and how you go about it.
Mobs are trained into town, I made a level 2 dwarf just for the sole reason to set up an afk shop in giran late last week. It got killed sometime over the night. No biggie, doesn't drop anything - it does hamper my attempt to sell some items though - since I have learned that most people do not know how to target someone without actually seeing them (i.e. /target ME).
I did loose the oppurtunity to sell with that charater though the night. And yes, I did make a petition b/c Spam stated that he was interested in the mater.
well i have 2 dwarfs on 2 accounts made for the sole purpose of crafting and selling ss
1 is a high lvl ws with 4 (5x?) weight limit the other is lvl 25 with triple weight limit
because i cant set up ss shops everyday but i can easily crafts 600k of ss i need to use something higher than a lvl 4 dwarf who can hold what? 70k of ss?
im considering selling 1 stem for 100 million adena so that if all my ss sells out at least my shop will remain open and apparently im train proof
knowing my luck ill prolly sell the stem then drop something worth 200 million lol
im considering selling 1 stem for 100 million adena so that if all my ss sells out at least my shop will remain open and apparently im train proof
This is probably a good idea. Since I doubt that "my stuff sold" is an intended reason to suddenly and unpredictably become vulnerable while afk in town, I doubt anyone would whine that you were exploiting the system.
Well IMO I think it's dumb to interfere in game mechanics. I like the game idea that there is no safe place. What is wrong with shops? Why should they get special status? If it is a bug that shops get killed then solve this bug, but banning or punishing people for using their skills is dumb.
!bah. Atleast there is some word for everyone. As far as pulling necro/cat mobs to town so that they port players/shops out of town - as what is believed by many to have happened yesterday = lame; when people start exploiting things happen - as far as NCSoft fixing bugs; first they must know the bug exist then they can fix it.
Brings to mind the lack of real testers on the PTS right now due to the excessive reports of gank squads - this bug might have been found even on the PTS in C3 or C4; but atleast it has been discovered on the live servers.
uh..
...
Really. Why shopping with my alt would upset anyone? Sounds.. dumb. Yeah, having a dwarf actually makes possible to buy RAW material (10k bones anyone?), but I dont like playing dorfs; So youre saying I shouldnt shop with my dwarf cause you dont like it? (lol)
Other nice thing about alts: you dont need to waste a ton in teleports, just to go back and forth from Aden. Im legit here, this half million is worth it, believe me. I dont like porting that much.
It amazes me even more knowing that "THE guy" in NA said trainning shops in towns isnt an exploit. Ok, lol again.
I really hope all exploiters get banned asap.
=p
Im clean you know.
Dunno about the whole alliance, its not my problem.
Anyway, im sure your alliance would loose AT LEAST as much as mine..
[Edit]
Oh, wait
I just remembered the whole trainning AFK shops was SP idea, right mister Insane? Sorry, I wasnt talking about you guys anyway. But, if it fits..
=p
Im clean you know.
Dunno about the whole alliance, its not my problem.
Anyway, im sure your alliance would loose AT LEAST as much as mine..
[Edit]
Oh, wait
I just remembered the whole trainning AFK shops was SP idea, right mister Insane? Sorry, I wasnt talking about you guys anyway. But, if it fits..
It made me laugh, because you are defy member and like pretty much the whole clan was not legit lol, I am not saying you are legit or not it's not my place to judge unless I know for fact. =)
Honestly I've hardly seen you around, but the fact that you made that statement gave me a laugh because I was gonna say so you hope atleast half your clan is banned.
I am certain sp would lose just as much as you would too I am just saying that, that is a pretty bold statement.
Im clanless now.
Got bored of Erica again, its just useless. This have been a cheaters war for a long time, ive been around for enough time to know it. But lets not highjack the thread =p
Im clanless now.
Got bored of Erica again, its just useless. This have been a cheaters war for a long time, ive been around for enough time to know it. But lets not highjack the thread =p
ah I didn't know that, I haven't been in game in almost 3 months in all honesty, I run the alliance through forum lol.
Well IMO I think it's dumb to interfere in game mechanics. I like the game idea that there is no safe place. What is wrong with shops? Why should they get special status? If it is a bug that shops get killed then solve this bug, but banning or punishing people for using their skills is dumb.
Spoken like a true griefer. :p
I on the other hand like the fact that there is some semblence of peace in town where you can take a little down time. I make money ingame with shops that are up while I'm afk. This is a major function of the economy and should be protected. (edit: I see that NCsoft has now posted an ingame message that states griefing shops is punishable.) Anyway, I should be able to go afk for a few minutes and not worry whether when I come back I will be alive or not.
The main reason for me is because it's difficult for me to return to the game without rebooting my pc due to a gameguard error. I'm sure I'm not the only one playing that has this problem, so the desire to have a place where you can have safe downtime for a little while is justifiable from that viewpoint.
On another note, why can't players have zones where the don't have to deal with griefers? I've never seen anywhere that it says the game was created only for players that grief other players. And please don't use the tired old excuse of "it's a PvP game". It's griefing because the player does it, not because the game allows it.
HGMspam has stated that towns are not peace zones against mobs, but just for PvP purposes. Players pulling trains in town to kill anyone are bypassing this rule, therefore it's griefing. Any player who pulls mobs into town for the express purpose of killing other players at rest in it, whether a shop or not, should go purple so they can be killed in defense of the attack. Towns are the only place you can't retaliate against this type of gameplay and it should be changed.
NCsoft should either modify the rule for towns to include mobs -or- allow PvP in towns. Simple. :p
Well IMO I think it's dumb to interfere in game mechanics. I like the game idea that there is no safe place. What is wrong with shops? Why should they get special status? If it is a bug that shops get killed then solve this bug, but banning or punishing people for using their skills is dumb.
Spoken like a true griefer. :p
Agreed. Also, as people in town are healing the mobs (and flagging as they do so) should be fair game for PvP. Now, they are completely safe.
Shops should be safe. They are integral to the economy. People walking around should be fair game for mobs but not shops.
I suggested long ago that the guards with names should attack mobs. It wouldn't completely solve the problem but would go a long way towards it.
For anyone who's not logged in, they've stated now that it is against the EULA to attempt to get people killed while in town. This solves MANY problems, including training guards on reds in their clan halls.
For anyone who's not logged in, they've stated now that it is against the EULA to attempt to get people killed while in town. This solves MANY problems, including training guards on reds in their clan halls.
If I'm not mistaken it says "shops", just to clarify your point. HGMspam has stated on mutliple occasions that players who are in town with shops up before a mob enters town should be safe. He also stated that all other players are fair game to be attacked by mobs loose in town.
As I previously stated, they should allow PvP with players who train in town or they should not allow mobs in town. It's just not right that you can't attack a player that's just dragged a train into town. :mad:
There was an announcement in game yesterday (the light blue chat) that said something about if you have been trainned and killed in town while in shop mode to contact a GM or something. Can't remember off hand the exact language of it so it could have said if you do it that it was a punishable offense and to contact a GM if you see it being done.
Either way appears NC Soft is either collecting info to make a decision or have made one in regards to this "tactic".
For anyone who's not logged in, they've stated now that it is against the EULA to attempt to get people killed while in town. This solves MANY problems, including training guards on reds in their clan halls.
If I'm not mistaken it says "shops", just to clarify your point. HGMspam has stated on mutliple occasions that players who are in town with shops up before a mob enters town should be safe. He also stated that all other players are fair game to be attacked by mobs loose in town.
As I previously stated, they should allow PvP with players who train in town or they should not allow mobs in town. It's just not right that you can't attack a player that's just dragged a train into town. :mad:
GaladronsBoy is correct.
The training of Mobs into town is not considered an exploit. The exploit is when mobs are tricked into interfering with Private Stores. Privates Stores should not pull aggro while in town. Also Private Stores should not be Teleported out of town.
We are currently working on fixing these issues, but until then a policy has been put forth to stop players from performing such actions.
For anyone who's not logged in, they've stated now that it is against the EULA to attempt to get people killed while in town. This solves MANY problems, including training guards on reds in their clan halls.
If I'm not mistaken it says "shops", just to clarify your point. HGMspam has stated on mutliple occasions that players who are in town with shops up before a mob enters town should be safe. He also stated that all other players are fair game to be attacked by mobs loose in town.
As I previously stated, they should allow PvP with players who train in town or they should not allow mobs in town. It's just not right that you can't attack a player that's just dragged a train into town. :mad:
GaladronsBoy is correct.
The training of Mobs into town is not considered an exploit. The exploit is when mobs are tricked into interfering with Private Stores. Privates Stores should not pull aggro while in town. Also Private Stores should not be Teleported out of town.
We are currently working on fixing these issues, but until then a policy has been put forth to stop players from performing such actions.
So does that mean players can also train monsters that does AOE damages into town and get those AFK shops killed to get drops, and still consider it as a legit way to play the game?
So does that mean players can also train monsters that does AOE damages into town and get those AFK shops killed to get drops, and still consider it as a legit way to play the game?
I think it's legit but just want to comfirm.
If by "legit" you mean "likely to get your account suspended if you try it", then yes. The announcement that everyone has been referring to supposedly says
Any attempts to cause the death of private stores located within town boundaries is strictly prohibited and a punishable offense.
So does that mean players can also train monsters that does AOE damages into town and get those AFK shops killed to get drops, and still consider it as a legit way to play the game?
I think it's legit but just want to comfirm.
If by "legit" you mean "likely to get your account suspended if you try it", then yes. The announcement that everyone has been referring to supposedly says
Any attempts to cause the death of private stores located within town boundaries is strictly prohibited and a punishable offense.
and your little trick definitely qualifies.
Thanks for reply. good to know that. otherwise i would be scared to leave my shops in town and go sleep. hehe.
kkk well check this spam, even if you do set it so it doesn't kill shops, what about the dwarfs when they sell or buy all their goods? all of a sudden they come out of shop, ull have to fix that too man. btw, carebear.
Goude, the use of the word carebear is kind of lame. Plus, what would qualify as "carebear" more than training on people who are afk selling/buying/crafting in what is supposed to be a safe zone?
You wanna talk carebear? How about this previous comment:
On another note, why can't players have zones where the don't have to deal with griefers? I've never seen anywhere that it says the game was created only for players that grief other players. And please don't use the tired old excuse of "it's a PvP game". It's griefing because the player does it, not because the game allows it.
This is the pinnacle of carebear. What happens when carebears take over a pvp game? The game dies. Make no mistake, this is a PVP-centric game; if you don't like it, go play Cabbage Patch Kids online. I remember what happened when Ultima Online listenened to the carebears and split the existing servers into pvp and non-pvp: The game lost 50% of its user base within 12 months and 4 years later, is a joke in the MMO world.
Carebears are like little kids on halloween. They don't know any better and will eat candy all day long if they could. Next thing you know, you have a bunch of fat kids with diabetes.
You wanna talk carebear? How about this previous comment:
On another note, why can't players have zones where the don't have to deal with griefers? I've never seen anywhere that it says the game was created only for players that grief other players. And please don't use the tired old excuse of "it's a PvP game". It's griefing because the player does it, not because the game allows it.
This is the pinnacle of carebear. What happens when carebears take over a pvp game? The game dies. Make no mistake, this is a PVP-centric game; if you don't like it, go play Cabbage Patch Kids online. I remember what happened when Ultima Online listenened to the carebears and split the existing servers into pvp and non-pvp: The game lost 50% of its user base within 12 months and 4 years later, is a joke in the MMO world.
Carebears are like little kids on halloween. They don't know any better and will eat candy all day long if they could. Next thing you know, you have a bunch of fat kids with diabetes.
I donno how you get your ingame adena - but alot of ppl have to set up stores to get theirs. The fastest way to kill a game is to make it so that everyone has to purchase adena to be able to get adena. Setting up safe zones where business can be conducted is the only way that this game can continue. Unless you want everyone to pay their $15 and pay more for adena since they cannot set up sell shops.
Think of some other reason to dislike the decision to make safe zones not safe other than it will kill the game. Maybe, if you dislike safe zones then you stay out of them - don't port to a clan hall when red, stay out there and tough it out - it's PvP for crying out loud - going to get ganked by mobs or players? Don't Bose - tough it out. There's not that many safe zones and they don't take up much room in the game world.
*sigh*
Well, perhaps you are as badass in the game as you are on the forums, spending your time picking fights with people of your level that can shell out damage.
If that is the case, then perhaps you are not the carebear that you call everyone else.
Griefers, in my experience, are "carebears" (the term sickens me). they choose targets that they run little to no risk losing to, resort to tactics that further tilt the odds in their favor, strike with as little chance for the target to defend themselves and then stand around and mock their targets as if they managed a great feat.
But perhaps you are a different sort.
Sorry, but carebear is requiring targets that are low level, afk, or in a place that is supposed to be safe instead of standing outside of Aden and issuing your challenge.
Look, there are many tactics and motives in this game. But to call someone a carebear because they don't glorify acts that pit one toon against another that they had no hope of beating, against their wishes, for no reason other than the entertainment value of the toon that ran zero risk... sorry. That rings of hypocrisy.
I play this game, I enjoy the game and have accepted that there is danger lurking in most places. That said, I don't think the game would be ruined if places like TI and ElV were non-griefer zones. I suppose it wouldn't bother me because I don't ever need to drag my A-grade toon up there to "PWN N00Bz!!!!" to make myself feel like a non-carebear. But low-level, honest pvp would take a hit in that regard I imagine.
But even without that non-griefer zone idea (I wouldn't sign it, but it wouldn't bother me one way or the other) a town where legit players can set up buy/sell/craft shops SHOULD be griefer free. Otherwise the economy is going to suffer.
Now, since you are so anti-carebear, I imagine that you'd be ok with the notion of a no-safe zone movement. Let pvp take place anywhere. Got a scammer? PK him right there. Somebody running their mouth before running into town? Np. Beat him down next to your favorite vendor. No more of those lame line-hopping pvp battles. And everyone like yourself, who so cavalierly labels others as carebear will have a chance to live as an example of what a non-carebear really is.
The training of Mobs into town is not considered an exploit. The exploit is when mobs are tricked into interfering with Private Stores. Privates Stores should not pull aggro while in town. Also Private Stores should not be Teleported out of town.
Then I assume I won't get the same protection if I just stand in town (and go to grab a drink)? How about if my stuff is sold out? Better sell a 1 mil arrow next time I go to bathroom.
I always put one slot of cheap D Crystals up with my buy stores, and one overpriced item with the sell stores anyway - recently I'm leaving messages in the title. And sometimes, someone actually sells/buys something. :D
As far as carebears go, it's a title anyone who it is given to rightfully should carry with pride - I'm afraid I've shed mine recently, in becoming more grubby on the market. Carebears are those players that are particularly nice and go out of their way to be good to others. If that's not commendable behaviour, I don't know what is.
No MalineII,
The term carebear is supposed to mean someone who is afraid to fight. It is applied liberally to a number of other types of players, among which, but certainly not all-inclusive are:
1) Players who are trying to XP
2) Players who prefer not to take on a no-win battle being forced on them through no action of their own
3) Players who may enjoy competetive PvP but who don't enjoy being trained, ganked, killed before screen loads, having their afk shops ravaged, know the difference between cowardice and strategy, don't agree that being swarmed by stacked parties while mana is out to due pve grinding is a test of skillZ, don't champion the cause of the 5x+ "teaching valuable l2 life lessons" to newbies in lowbie hunting grounds, aren't logged on "live" to pvp pvp pvp pvp without abandon because Chuck Norris will give them their levels back overnight while they sleep, players who use BSOEs (except for themselves, of course, as they always have the only reasonable excuse for such action)
I think the whole being nice part is related to a cartoon. =)
You wanna talk carebear? How about this previous comment:
On another note, why can't players have zones where the don't have to deal with griefers? I've never seen anywhere that it says the game was created only for players that grief other players. And please don't use the tired old excuse of "it's a PvP game". It's griefing because the player does it, not because the game allows it.
This is the pinnacle of carebear. What happens when carebears take over a pvp game? The game dies. Make no mistake, this is a PVP-centric game; if you don't like it, go play Cabbage Patch Kids online. I remember what happened when Ultima Online listenened to the carebears and split the existing servers into pvp and non-pvp: The game lost 50% of its user base within 12 months and 4 years later, is a joke in the MMO world.
Carebears are like little kids on halloween. They don't know any better and will eat candy all day long if they could. Next thing you know, you have a bunch of fat kids with diabetes.
/ranton
Stranglehold, you have not the faintest clue as to what you're talking about. :mad:
I'm anything but carebear, other than being respectful to other players. I know that it's convenient for you to read into what I said whatever translation you choose, but get this straight ... I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH PVP!!!!
My sentiment, however, mirrors EQ's in that I absolutely despise players who use their l33tness to the degree that there is no challenge to what they are doing. A level 75 character killing another character more than 10 levels below them is cowardice. There is absolutely no challenge whatsoever in the encounter for the higher level player. A pack of wolves scouring the countryside looking for helpless victims is also "carebear" in my view.
My comment, as you so conveniently displayed it, does nothing more than ask why players can't have some small area for downtime after grinding for six hours straight without having to log out to do it. How that equates to carebear is really beyond me. For those of us who have problems with GG this would be a bonus of sorts. As to your game dying comment, I happen to believe that it's players like you who destroy it by not wanting to engage in the spirit of the game, but choose to create their own game-within-a-game. They do far more damage than the so-called carebears do.
And just so you know where I'm coming from, I spent 24 years in the Army, fought in 3 combat zones with over 55 months of hazardous duty and have the decorations to prove it. From what you have offered to us here, you have no place to talk to me about carebear. My reputation ingame is such that when I'm seen without a clan tag I'm approached by active PvP clans asking me to join because they know I like to PvP. So please do us all a favor and learn to read before making uninformed derogatory comments. :mad:
And just so you know where I'm coming from, I spent 24 years in the Army, fought in 3 combat zones with over 55 months of hazardous duty and have the decorations to prove it.
And just so you know where I'm coming from, I spent 24 years in the Army, fought in 3 combat zones with over 55 months of hazardous duty and have the decorations to prove it.
This is the pinnacle of carebear. What happens when carebears take over a pvp game? The game dies. Make no mistake, this is a PVP-centric game; if you don't like it, go play Cabbage Patch Kids online. I remember what happened when Ultima Online listenened to the carebears and split the existing servers into pvp and non-pvp: The game lost 50% of its user base within 12 months and 4 years later, is a joke in the MMO world.
Carebears are like little kids on halloween. They don't know any better and will eat candy all day long if they could. Next thing you know, you have a bunch of fat kids with diabetes.
It is hard to reply to this post and make it better than what EQ said.
Those people who left for these the "non-pvp" servers would have left eventually anyway.
What you have there is a group of people who are attracted to one ore more aspects of the game but do not like to be ganked, griefed, etc. Given a game that allows them to satisfy all of those wants but that doesn't make them targets for griefers, gankers etc, they will leave for that game.
Part of the problem is that the game companies don't recognize this and they don't start out with "hardcore"/softcore" servers.
This way the more "hardcore" players can all be in one place and have a chance to grow their numbers in a consolidated environment.
There are many people who love pvp combat (myself as one of them) but like the idea of "combat" not griefing, ganking etc. That to me is more weak in some ways and speaks more to this idea of "zerg" that so many people are against when it comes time for sieges.
It's not ok to "zerg" at a siege but get some bored lvl 40+ and it's perfectly ok to "zerg" in lvls any of the noob areas.
There should be hardcore servers for players who want to be as ruthless as they desire... I completely support that. I also support the idea of a server that allows people to combat each other but in a more controlled environment.
Carebear = Kids on Halloween? Does that mean the Hardcore griefer players are psychopaths who seriously need to have professional help?
Hardly and I would never even suggest that as it is an insult to players who enjoy completlely open vicious pvp play. I have nothing but respect and admiration for players who put everything on the line with hardcore risks. Not many people can do that and do that well.
But as I believe that these players have the right to a game where they can fulfill their preferred gamestyle so do I believe that other players should be granted that same respect.
Again.. whatever happened to the idea of individuality? So many people scream this 'til their throats are sore but should anyone come along with an idea that is completely opposite then there is no more room for individuality and their is only the my way or the highway mentality.
And just so you know where I'm coming from, I spent 24 years in the Army, fought in 3 combat zones with over 55 months of hazardous duty and have the decorations to prove it.
Any attempts to cause the death of private stores located within town boundaries is strictly prohibited and a punishable offense.
I call for an official answer answer for :
-What if someone aims (or pretends to) at non private store, and the method result in private store death ? (it is zone-based, not target based)
-What about private manufacture ?
Seriously, this is also a nasty way to kill private shops ... imagine you train some drake with AoE flame attack, stand in the middle of Giran, and let drake fire at you ... AoE = it affects everything nerby, resulting in shops receiving damage and eventually die.
Then you can always say "I was just running from that drake ..."
well--that has certainly been a fascinating discussion!
The PROXIMATE result of killing dwarves--however you do it--who are trying to sell overnight......(psssst....pay close attention..i'll type r-e-a-l slow)......they will raise all their other prices to regain adenda.
You think supply and demand in this game can't be affected? Seriously?
200 non-farmer dwarves in one server decide ssd sells for 20 and it eventually sells for 20 (or at least more than 12!).
I saw mobs in dion last night--couldn't figure out why they had been run in there (i'm not real bright about griefers sometimes).
Someone said essentially: "let everyone play his own game--open architecture is best feature of L2" (i'm paraphrasing).
I agree with that sentiment.
But just as there are consequences for 'being your own person in rl', there are consequences for doing the same in game.
Eventually if you cause others trouble...in a completely open architecture, they will make you pay for it (figuratively or literally).
Playing a dwarf myself...i say we 'agree' as dwarves that ssd is 25, that d crystals are 5k, and that iron will only be bought for 105a.....think of it like the oil companies who raise prices anticipating unrest in oil producing regions.
Dwarves interested in a true guild...pm me (lol).
I've found myself complaining about parts of this game on this post...had to admit I sounded like a sissy whiner...the game is what it is--the good (for me) and the not-so-good.
I've heard one universal answers when i 1) complained about high lvls pking newbies, 2) complained about "unmentionables", 3) complained about economics.....every single time someone has basically said to me "stop whining or quit".