Has anyone figured out what the DPS of weapons are? We know what the P. atk of a weapon is and from what i can see we have five speeds of a weapon "Very slow, Slow, Normal, Fast, Very fast"
How would someone translate that into DPS?
I would guess that the P.atk of a weapon doesn't translate into the damge it can inflict. Can someone give me a heads up on how at least you can figure what a toon could do with a certain weapon and what the damage would be?
Mmm someone calculated all that a while back... most likely got pruned tho.
If I remember correctly it boiled down to that: *drumroll* without crits and masteries the DPS on all weapon-types of the same "level" are the same.
Guess the Devs at least tried to get one thing right. :p
However that does not take masteries, buffs and crits and accuracy into account, which also depends on the stats, so it's probably quite hard to balance that equally and probably not even intended.
Let me tell you what i have been thinking about...
I was looking over all the swords in the game for my orc destroyer and was wondering which is better. Which lead me to think about the way DPS is listed on weapons of the game wow.
I'd like to come up with a basic figure for just the weapons not taking into account: masteries, buffs, criticals or anything like that.
A basic DPS figure.
But some of the figures that elude me is converting the weapon speed into a figure for one.
**Edit**
Would it be fair to say that:
Very fast ".5 seconds"
Fast "1.0 seconds"
Normal "1.5 seconds"
Slow "2.0 seconds"
Very slow "2.5 seconds"
It's difficult to calculate one of the most important factors of melee DPS - critical rate - because the rate itself and its effects vary so widely with applied buffs.
For the simple basics, I would be surprised if you could not find something in the prima guide - I'll be looking in game, just give me a moment to grab some weapons. :)
If you are willing to leave the damage dealt by criticals out, an easy way would be this:
Multiply the attack speed the same char gets with a weapon, with the weapons p.attk. this wont give you damage per second, but it will give you a value useful for comparison.
I'm trying to come up with a figure i can assign to each weapon taking into account the P.atk of the weapon based on it's speed to arrive at a DPS.
A characters speed cann't come into this because everyone is different.
um, i hate to throw monkeys up but.... dont you need to account for the base patk of the player equipping the weapon, the player's patk with the weapon, attack speed and mob pdef?
DOnt think that there is a 1 dps for all classes. Because all classes have different stats. And its impocible to not taking in acount atack speed and crit rate, because those are aplyed all the time.
For example elf fighter will probably have more dpc with a dagger or sword due to higher dex>crit rate then with a blunt (he has good acuracy anyways and the crit rate will be brought down to 0)
And it will be otherway for ork mystic, for example. With dager he/she will just miss at impocible rate.
Most of the DPS is dependant on your class, race, and passives.... so using one clean number to refer to all weapons would be sort of a waste of time.... no?
I agree with Bhod. Pinpointing an equation when there are more variables than constants won't get you anywhere. A dagger in the hands of class A is nothing compared to a dagger in the hands of class B, while A has much more DPS with a two-handed than class B ever will.
Although I suppose for a given situation with a given class, and a given raidboss, you can calculate DPS by just seeing how much damage you deal in exactly 1 minute and then divide that by 60. And then retry it with a different weapon, or repeat the experiment so you have a larger sample size.
As I said, you need to test in game - these things are all done in percentages, so you can create a DPS by naming a sword speed '1', a dagger 'speed 1.2' and duals 'speed 0.8' or something like that.
I don't know the exact numbers yet, couldn't find a 1h weapon yesterday. >.>
He's not interested in in-game DPS - he's interested on the weapons' base characteristic damage over time potential.
right. but based on the ingame stuff, u can work backwards.
if you have missed or critted at any time, inject an average damge value for the sake of ease of mathematics.
hits per second = number of hits made in the 10 second test / 10
damage per hit = average of all damage values made in the 10 second test
DPS= DPH*HPS
once youve obtained in-game DPS, subtract like this:
for lvl X pole mastery and Y base attack, subtract X and Y from Patk. this should be close to the actual patk of the weapon.
now do (patk of you after subtractions/patk of you before subractions)*DPS value.
this will give you the more accurate DPS given no player input.
Basic weapon speeds:
Dagger - 433
1-handed weapos - 379
2-handed weapons - 325
Bows - 293, but havily modified by reload factor (effective speed is like 1/2 of it)
Speeds are directly comparable. That is, 200 is exactly twice as fast as 100.
Character attack speed is modified by dexterity, skills and buffs. Although buffs and dexterity will increase attack speed preserving proportion of stats.
I'm not sure about skills - most likely they'll just add up some fixed value to your attack speed. I've not tested it though.
Basic weapon speeds:
Dagger - 433
1-handed weapos - 379
2-handed weapons - 325
Bows - 293, but havily modified by reload factor (effective speed is like 1/2 of it)
Speeds are directly comparable. That is, 200 is exactly twice as fast as 100.
Character attack speed is modified by dexterity, skills and buffs. Although buffs and dexterity will increase attack speed preserving proportion of stats.
I'm not sure about skills - most likely they'll just add up some fixed value to your attack speed. I've not tested it though.
we were calculating not for base haracter attack speed because that will vary by gender, by race and by class, but for speed of the weapon itself.
since that cannot be localised we did the next best thing! proportioned weapon DPS versus player DPS.
Basic weapon speeds:
Dagger - 433
1-handed weapos - 379
2-handed weapons - 325
Bows - 293, but havily modified by reload factor (effective speed is like 1/2 of it)
Speeds are directly comparable. That is, 200 is exactly twice as fast as 100.
Character attack speed is modified by dexterity, skills and buffs. Although buffs and dexterity will increase attack speed preserving proportion of stats.
I'm not sure about skills - most likely they'll just add up some fixed value to your attack speed. I've not tested it though.
we were calculating not for base haracter attack speed because that will vary by gender, by race and by class, but for speed of the weapon itself.
Gah! Gender!?! Affects attack speed?
No wonder there's so many more of those lil dorfer chix compared to the slow old fartz.
we were calculating not for base haracter attack speed because that will vary by gender, by race and by class, but for speed of the weapon itself.
since that cannot be localised we did the next best thing! proportioned weapon DPS versus player DPS.
Gender? Class? Are you kidding?
There are only 3 things that change attack speed:
1) dexterity
2) passive skills
3) buffs/active skills
Dexterity and haste/berserker buffs work as % increase in attack speed. That is, speed proportions are preserved.
Passive (Boost atack speed) and active skills (Rapid shot, duelist spirit, totems) - don't know, to be honest. Some might work similar to haste buffs, some like fixed speed increase.
You won't meet them early though.
we were calculating not for base haracter attack speed because that will vary by gender, by race and by class, but for speed of the weapon itself.
since that cannot be localised we did the next best thing! proportioned weapon DPS versus player DPS.
Gender? Class? Are you kidding?
There are only 3 things that change attack speed:
1) dexterity
2) passive skills
3) buffs/active skills
Dexterity and haste/berserker buffs work as % increase in attack speed. That is, speed proportions are preserved.
Passive (Boost atack speed) and active skills (Rapid shot, duelist spirit, totems) - don't know, to be honest. Some might work similar to haste buffs, some like fixed speed increase.
You won't meet them early though.
not to mention what weapon you are equipped with.
for example dagger vs polearm.
exactly how are the two speeds not part of your 3 speed factors? one CLEARLY is faster than the other.
and for the last time, WE WERENT BASING THIS ON PLAYER SPEED. only how fast the actual weapon hits. if you want to know how we removed the player element, refer the the aforementioned mathematics.
exactly how are the two speeds not part of your 3 speed factors? one CLEARLY is faster than the other.
It's quite easy, dude. To change something you have to have a base. That is, you change basic weapon speed with these 3 factors. As I wrote before, different weapon types may have different basic speeds.
and for the last time, WE WERENT BASING THIS ON PLAYER SPEED. only how fast the actual weapon hits. if you want to know how we removed the player element, refer the the aforementioned mathematics.
There is only one weak point in your mathematics - all % increases can't be figured back with addition/substraction.
You have to substract mastery taking into account actual attack speed.
Then you have to compensate strength and level bonuses (both are % bonuses, multiplied by each other before appliaction to basic weapon PAtk). Then you have to compensate
Also you have to take target PDef into account in order to "compensate" it.
You have not suggested working method. :p
Instead you suggest some blind formula with few unknown values. The one noone can ever use.
To calculate basic DPS of the weapon one can simply multiply basic weapon speed by basic weapon PAtk and divide by some reasonable koefficient, if the number doesn't look cute enough for flat comparision of weapon effectiveness.
Even though the value will be like spherical horse model in a vacuum, one can use it to compare weapons to each other. There is no other purpose for basic weapon DPS. So, why bother?
The first is a two handed sword with a Patk rating of 100 with a speed of slow and the other is a one handed sword with a patk rating of 50 with a speed of normal. Which one will inflict more damage?
If we say that a rating of slow is equal to 1 second and normal is 1/2 a second. It would appear that both weapons are equal.
If a two handed sword had a rating of 125 Patk with a speed of slow and a one handed dagger had a rating of 65 Patk with a speed of very fast. Which one would inflict more damage?
Taking into account again that a rating of slow is equal to 1 second and a rating of very fast is 1/4 second. It would appear that the dagger is doing 260.
In fact, two-handed swords has "Normal" speed rating.
Slow rating is reserved for bows (very slow is for bows too).
The first is a two handed sword with a Patk rating of 100 with a speed of slow and the other is a one handed sword with a patk rating of 50 with a speed of normal. Which one will inflict more damage?
If we say that a rating of slow is equal to 1 second and normal is 1/2 a second. It would appear that both weapons are equal.
Well, two-handed sword is around 14% slower (325/379 ~ 86%) than 1-handed one while dagger is 14% faster (433/379 ~ 114%).
So "normalised" weapon PAtk for this first example would be as follows:
two-handed sword will have 86 PAtk value while one-handed sword will retain its value at 50 PAtk
If a two handed sword had a rating of 125 Patk with a speed of slow and a one handed dagger had a rating of 65 Patk with a speed of very fast. Which one would inflict more damage?
In one-handed sword equivalent dagger will have 74 PAtk while two-handed sword will have 107 PAtk equivalent.
Anyways how did you arrive at your weapon speed figures?
These numbers float around forums for few years. Originally they were published in Prima Guide, but since that time (C1) devs changed nothing in weapon speeds.
I fail to see why all these comparisons...you really only have a couple choices of viable weapons anyways for maximum DPS lol.With the destroyers two handed masteries combined with sword/blunt mastery...2 hand sword is best DPS for destroyer.period.In c grade only real choice is bezerker,b grade great sword,A grade dragon slayer.Not a "monumental" task here.Now a heavily OE GS/focus probably would even be better than DS for PVE.Also before someone mentions it bows are a special case.NO an aoba wont do more damage than a GS cause it's faster etc....swords have way higher natural crit rates and with focus you will crit alot:)blunts have worst crit rate in game.And there is no good 2 handed blunts yet.
I fail to see why all these comparisons...you really only have a couple choices of viable weapons anyways for maximum DPS lol.With the destroyers two handed masteries combined with sword/blunt mastery...2 hand sword is best DPS for destroyer.period.In c grade only real choice is bezerker,b grade great sword,A grade dragon slayer.Not a "monumental" task here.Now a heavily OE GS/focus probably would even be better than DS for PVE.Also before someone mentions it bows are a special case.NO an aoba wont do more damage than a GS cause it's faster etc....swords have way higher natural crit rates and with focus you will crit alot:)blunts have worst crit rate in game.And there is no good 2 handed blunts yet.
I fail to see why all these comparisons...you really only have a couple choices of viable weapons anyways for maximum DPS lol.With the destroyers two handed masteries combined with sword/blunt mastery...2 hand sword is best DPS for destroyer.period.In c grade only real choice is bezerker,b grade great sword,A grade dragon slayer.Not a "monumental" task here.Now a heavily OE GS/focus probably would even be better than DS for PVE.Also before someone mentions it bows are a special case.NO an aoba wont do more damage than a GS cause it's faster etc....swords have way higher natural crit rates and with focus you will crit alot:)blunts have worst crit rate in game.And there is no good 2 handed blunts yet.
another noob misses the point!
read the thread please, not the first post only.
I'm not a "noob" Mr.4x bishop..lol..anyways I was just saying this thread is pointless as far as destroyer is concerned.
Let me tell you what i have been thinking about...
I was looking over all the swords in the game for my orc destroyer and was wondering which is better.
answer:the top 2 handed sword for your grade.
any 60+ des will tell you the same thing.How many high level des you see running around with DLE or some other 1 handed sword?..come on.
Do you have access to those numbers if i picked 5 weapons to compare to it's rated speed?
I have already post all the numbers I know. The only "hidden" thing type is bows. They are of a special case. Others are listed in my first message of the page.