As we all know nukers are over powered. You can say no to this all you want, but your just gonna make yourself look like an idiot. So don't even try it.
Their are 2 problems with nukers.
WIT tats and the acumen SA.
Lets first start on the acumen SA.
It adds 15% casting speed. Sounds weak when you first think of it but then you have to add in +15% robes and the WIT tats and you got yourself +50% increase in casting speed.
What should be done?
Simple, change the acumen SA to acumen level 1, which is only 5%.
Lets move onto WIT tats.
The most common set up is +4 wit, +4 con, +4 int, -8 men, -4 str.
Those +4 wit adds 20% more casting speed. Which may not sound like much at all but then you have to add the acumen SA and the +15 robes. And then you got the fact alot of nukers go +5 wit when they start a pvp set up. This adds 25%
So lets see, robes(15%)+acumen SA(15%)+WIT tats(20%)=50%(+5% if +5 wit) increase in casting speed. Nukers do not need this.
What to do about WIT tats?
Make it so nukers cannot use them.
Alot of people that play nukers will cry foul about these ideas, but they need to be done. Because their is no balance between melee (tanks, daggers, healers, bows, summoners) and mages (nukers, nukers and nukers).
personally I wish when nukers did -MEN it actually penalized them more. Right now when you -MEN the most noticable penalty is the rate in which casting gets cancelled, however Concentration buff and DC bonus almost completely negate this penalty. Also mages should not be able to mess with CON or at least not be able to -STR for it, seriously its ridiculous.
As we all know nukers are over powered. You can say no to this ally uo want, but your just gonna make yourself look like an idiot. So don't even try it.
I don't even know where to begin with this statment.
But at the risk of "looking like an idiot", perhaps you need to really look at your statment...
Besides the changes that are coming with Aura Flare, please be advised that not all "nukers" have this ability. What about the Spellhowlers, what about the orc mages (though not technically a nuker, still very powerful.)
It seems to me that people make broad sweeping assumptions about ALL mages based on the results they have witnessed.
In any case this is an old topic.
Some of what you say does nake sense never the less.. I would have no problem with the acument SA being lowered.
As we all know nukers are over powered. You can say no to this ally uo want, but your just gonna make yourself look like an idiot. So don't even try it.
I don't even know where to begin with this statment.
But at the risk of "looking like an idiot", perhaps you need to really look at your statment...
Besides the changes that are coming with Aura Flare, please be advised that not all "nukers" have this ability. What about the Spellhowlers, what about the orc mages (though not technically a nuker, still very powerful.)
It seems to me that people make broad sweeping assumptions about ALL mages based on the results they have witnessed.
In any case this is an old topic.
Some of what you say does nake sense never the less.. I would have no problem with the acument SA being lowered.
no mage gots like 700 cast speed without buffs (includeing pots)
My sps friend has 700+ without buffs. Add in bsps and you got 1.4k See my point yet?
he lieing to you maxe is like 688 for sps last time i check a ss of a acumen homu +DC +sps +4wit
close to 700 but not over it i can be almsoted certain
no mage gots like 700 cast speed without buffs (includeing pots)
My sps friend has 700+ without buffs. Add in bsps and you got 1.4k See my point yet?
he lieing to you maxe is like 688 for sps last time i check a ss of a acumen homu +DC +sps +4wit
close to 700 but not over it i can be almsoted certain
gogogo cry more your a meet shield so be it and stop crying
So meat shields (btw that's how you properly spell meat) should have a higher m.def so they can withstand the cast speed and m.attk of these overpowered nukers.
first off nukers are supposed to be the most dangerous foe in any game so please spare me this thread NUKERS NUKE FOR THE MOST DAMAGE ARCHERS HAVE HIGHEST NON MAGICAL ATTACK TANKERS TANK DAGGERS CRIT SUMMONERS SUMMON AND BUFFERS BUFF IF U ARE NOT A NUKER OR ARCHER U ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE UBER L337 KILLING MACHINES SO STOP THESE STUPID THREADS
gogogo cry more your a meet shield so be it and stop crying
So meat shields (btw that's how you properly spell meat) should have a higher m.def so they can withstand the cast speed and m.attk of these overpowered nukers.
Glad to see we're in agreement on this.
no meat shields shouldnt get higher mdef they are PHYSICAL TANKS they are not trained in the arts of magic so they should not tank magical attacks with crazy proficiency the only tank for a mage should be a mentality class like the warcryer or overlord
first off nukers are supposed to be the most dangerous foe in any game so please spare me this thread NUKERS NUKE FOR THE MOST DAMAGE ARCHERS HAVE HIGHEST NON MAGICAL ATTACK TANKERS TANK DAGGERS CRIT SUMMONERS SUMMON AND BUFFERS BUFF IF U ARE NOT A NUKER OR ARCHER U ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE UBER L337 KILLING MACHINES SO STOP THESE STUPID THREADS
You apparently don't understand game balance or class functions. Please spare us and stop posting.
first off nukers are supposed to be the most dangerous foe in any game so please spare me this thread NUKERS NUKE FOR THE MOST DAMAGE ARCHERS HAVE HIGHEST NON MAGICAL ATTACK TANKERS TANK DAGGERS CRIT SUMMONERS SUMMON AND BUFFERS BUFF IF U ARE NOT A NUKER OR ARCHER U ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE UBER L337 KILLING MACHINES SO STOP THESE STUPID THREADS
Look, I don't think anyone would argue that nukers should not do a ton of damage. They absolutely should. They shouldn't do it at the speed they can do it at though. You know what, I quit. I'm sick of this argument. Most people don't even want to see the other side. Why don't we all just roll nukers and 2box buffers and just forget the whole stupid thing.
gogogo cry more your a meet shield so be it and stop crying
So meat shields (btw that's how you properly spell meat) should have a higher m.def so they can withstand the cast speed and m.attk of these overpowered nukers.
Glad to see we're in agreement on this.
no meat shields shouldnt get higher mdef they are PHYSICAL TANKS they are not trained in the arts of magic so they should not tank magical attacks with crazy proficiency the only tank for a mage should be a mentality class like the warcryer or overlord
Warcryers and Overlords are healers/buffers according to the game system actually. They have all the same limitations on tattoo's and such that apply to prophets/bishops/elders.
Warcryers and Overlords also have no aggro management.
The m.def of tanks was originally setup when mobs didn't cast and there were no significant ways other then acumen to increase cast speed (which is what singificantly boosts mage damage).
gogogo cry more your a meet shield so be it and stop crying
So meat shields (btw that's how you properly spell meat) should have a higher m.def so they can withstand the cast speed and m.attk of these overpowered nukers.
Glad to see we're in agreement on this.
no meat shields shouldnt get higher mdef they are PHYSICAL TANKS they are not trained in the arts of magic so they should not tank magical attacks with crazy proficiency the only tank for a mage should be a mentality class like the warcryer or overlord
Last time I checked all of the true tanks in L2 use magic. Am I crazy here?
class functions? does a tank not tank? is a nuker not fragile but deals hella damage? does an archer not have powerful range attacks? does a buffer not buff? if u can prove this wrong then i will shutup and never post again but until u can then u can stop posting ur nonsense about how a paladin or somethin should take down a mage trained in the arts of powerful deadly magic it just makes no sense.
class functions? does a tank not tank? is a nuker not fragile but deals hella damage? does an archer not have powerful range attacks? does a buffer not buff? if u can prove this wrong then i will shutup and never post again but until u can then u can stop posting ur nonsense about how a paladin or somethin should take down a mage trained in the arts of powerful deadly magic it just makes no sense.
A paladin (a tank class) does not have the tanking ability to tank a damage dealing class (nuker). That means they fail at being a tank.
Nukers are not that fragile either. They have crowd control skills that with a fast casting speed can virtually eliminate any chance that they will be touched which eliminates their weakness.
Now following your own declaration, I expect that will be your last post. Thank you.
ok tanks use basic magic like some get heals some get life drains but nothin crazy here, and they dont rely on magic like a mage
Kinda funny that SK's and DA's both do the 'Trial of Witchcraft' for their 3rd quest in second class transfer. They both use magic quite heavily to perform their roles as Tanks.
a tank is a physical tank with the highest pdef thats PHYSICAL DEFENSE for anyone new to the game so they are good at their job tanking physical attacks, nukers are fragile health and physical defense wise if surprised can be easily beaten ask any mage if an archer gets the a 1 or 2 shot jump on them from the rear they will always die but it works vice versa also so u still havent proven me wrong ur just making classes out to be what they arent.
im not saying tanks dont use magic at all they just arent trained to rely only on their magic but also their weapon/heavyarmor. mages are to rely on magic only mages dont go around beating people with a axe.
and in C4 valakas drops a necklace that gives sleep resistance so theirs another armor piece nerf for nukers cancel is getting nerfed and the aura burn spell forget the name at higher lvls is getting nerfed that should place nukers a little easier game for other people but they arent supposed to be an easy target.
i gaurantee in c4 all of you are going to stop complaing about nukers and start complaining about summoners especially the necromancer even tho i beleive they arent considered true summoners but i GAURANTEE everyone is going to change from OMGOSH SPS ARE SO OVERPOWRED to OMG NECROMANCERS PARALYZE/TRANSFER PAIN/LIFE DRAIN/CURSE GLOOM OMGOSH
the power transfers around from class to class prelude was silver ranger c1 i beleive was still silver ranger c2 was daggers c3 is nukers c4 is gunna be summoners and so forth
no mage gots like 700 cast speed without buffs (includeing pots)
My sps friend has 700+ without buffs. Add in bsps and you got 1.4k See my point yet?
he lieing to you maxe is like 688 for sps last time i check a ss of a acumen homu +DC +sps +4wit
close to 700 but not over it i can be almsoted certain
unbuffed casting speed 750 here. sps with dc-set, som (acu) and +4 wit tattoos
I would be curious to see what Spellhowler would have.
At the moment all I have are Avadon robes to increase my cast speed (Acumen SA is a little ways a way so I can't test this yet).
With Ag set ( +15% cast speed, +2 wit ), +5 wit in tatoos, and a acumen weapon... unbuffed M atk is 834 and cast speed is 649 on my brothers Spell Howler.
ok after speaking with friends i do agree with one point josie made, when a tank does get close and personal a mage shouldnt be able to stand toe to toe and still win with attacks....
the ONLY change to a nuker i think should be changed is that melee damage should be significantly higher on people wearing robes
not archer damage tho cuz thats already fine where its at but melee damage should have on like A grade axes and swords should have a added bonus of +15% damage to robe wearing individuals and i think that should be the ONLY difference made and see how it works
ok i retract my previous statement about 1 change the only two changes are the damage bonus on robes for melee and i also think when a mage gets hit it should sometimes interupt like it does but IF the interupt doesnt happen it should add like .5 of a second to the cast time so it takes a little longer to get the spell off.
eg. a caster is casting a 2 second spell and gets hit twice it took an overall 3 seconds to get the spell off.
i think that would be fair? what does everyone else think? thats not nerfing their speed nor damage but just making them a little more difficult to own more than 1 person with.
And archers are just as overpowereed as mages when compared to non raged DDs. This gets much worse in C4.
They really need to nerf both archer and mage damage by a lot. Increasing melee damage would only make combat even faster, and right now it only last 3 seconds.
The biggest problem with game balance comes from high level parties will all the buffs. Mages and archers in these parties become way too powerful, to the point where any non ranged class can't even get close without dying in 3 seconds.
In regular clan war and open PVP this is the case. It's even worse in sieges where a non ranged class dare not step out front for fear of getting hit with 20 arrows, each doing 2-3.5k crits, or getting critted by 2 mages for a total of 10k damage. This is broken.
Fully buffed mage and archer parties are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too strong, and need fixinf fast.
As I said 100++++ times, there's a reason everyone, and I mean 99.9999999% of all players, are rerolling nukers or archers, or picking them as subclasses. NCsoft can confirm as can anyone who plays the game enough.
Check any competent clan and you'll see that's it composed of almost all archer and nuker DD class. Not Gladiators, tanks, daggers, orcs, and dwarves. These classes are TERRIBLE DDs because of this problem.
Idont realy mind nukers hit hard, or cast fast, thats what they do.. what I DO mind tho, is why nukers can touch CON? melee cant touch caster-tatoo-stats so why can all nukers use the melee-tatoo-stats? ofc all casters want +4 CON, but in some points, that gives them more HP as an melee (like me, with -10 CON, soon -11 >.<) and there goes nukers with -4 str and -8 men that almost doesent affect them at all... anyways, im not whining, I like the game as it is, and Im not a PvPer either, so I dont realy care for those things, but still its an unfair advantage for those that do like pvp.
Those +4 wit adds 20% more casting speed. Which may not sound like much at all but then you have to add the acumen SA and the +15 robes. And then you got the fact alot of nukers go +5 wit when they start a pvp set up. This adds 25%
So lets see, robes(15%)+acumen SA(15%)+WIT tats(20%)=50%(+5% if +5 wit) increase in casting speed. Nukers do not need this.
Actually your math is wrong as each of these % increase stack with each other.
If you start with a base of 400 cast speed, using your math (50% increase) the casting speed would be 600. Instead you get 634.8 casting speed (400*1.2*1.15*1.15).
If you then take into account acumen and con dance both 20% each (i think 20%), you don't get a 90% increase overall (760 cast speed), you actually get 914 cast speed. Add another 15% from zerk and you are at 1051 cast speed compared to 820 for 400*2.05 (205%).
The higher the base number, then the more of an increase you will see from these buffs. As the % increases are all around 15-20%, the net results add up pretty quickly. Melee don't get increases anywhere near this lvl in attack speed, and if they do it often means gimping con or str to do it, or lowering other stats such as tryrants using totems.
You can't compare the speeds of spellcasting to attack speeds.
You can say that the increase in damage from haste spells and attack speed boosting sets (dark crystal light, tallum heavy) and weapon SA's does not produce a boost in damage that can compete with the casting speeds boosts.
the power transfers around from class to class prelude was silver ranger c1 i beleive was still silver ranger c2 was daggers c3 is nukers c4 is gunna be summoners and so forth
first of all people are already calling nerf on necro, and they DO get overpowered in C4, known fact as they already are nukers with TRANSFER PAIN..
mages should hit hard, sure.. ive played nuker in most any other game then L2 and just love killing stuff fast, but in, for example, diablo 2, if i teleport into a group of fallen i see my hp drop to 50% hp before i can teleport out (hell mode) that and interuption rate is pretty high, im talking without buff stuff even teleport interupts 30% of the time.
what am i getting at ? i mage in lineage can stand next to a destroyer, feel 50 feet of steel cleaving into his head, and still cast with 0.01% cast failure and take 20 hits before he goes down. the LEAST of realisme would be 1 hit and the mage would be sliced in half, but 5 hits would be atleast a bit of ballance. mages got slow or sleep to keep enemies away from them, and this game aint about 1 vs 1, so the melee should keep other melee away but WHEN a melee gets passed the others and reaches the mages/archers he should be killing AND interupting them every so often. because b elieve me shooting a bow when someone is wacking you with a bigass club aint easy
yea i agree with that, we should hit very hard.. hey its magic.. we should be hard hiters but we shouldnt be allowed to touch con at all, it just doesnt feel right :)