I have been leveling and getting seals in the Necropolis of Sacrifice on server 2. It has been a CONSTANT grief fest with people dragging mops into your hunting area and dropping them on you. This is NOT about pvp.... this is strictly griefing. These morons are not hunting. They are NOT pvp'ing. They don't want the room you have. Strictly getting their greif hours in. Why the heck is this behavior allowed? Is it legal (allowed by the rules)?
This has been going on all day! I could name names but ....
Yup, it's perfectly legal. What you can do is:
1. stun the person pulling the train so the train kills them
2. Don't even twitch while they pull the train on you (unless they have skills to forcefully switch target they're toast (good luck switching a couple dozen mobs)). That means you must stop fighting what you were and let it pound on you.
3. Leave the area.
The game is meant to be social. Make a few high-level friends and PM them when this happens. I'm sure they'd love to get a shot at the B grade drops from this dude.
Stun is risky since you flag. I just suggest point 2 as most effective way to keep you alive. Mobs lose their aggro if they go too far away from spawn spot. Without extra encouragment (you hitting their friends, trained "switching" them on you) they won't do a thing.
whatever you do, stop fighting - so social mobs don't aggro, because you're hitting their friends and relatives. it might work, it might not. but you have a better chance to survive, if you don't do a thing. if they aggro on you; RUN - to the entrance and port out. if you're not in combat, log out, to lose aggro. i think this is allowed. force logging is not.
I think the original question has been answered, but this reminds me of a couple situations that I'm curious what others in the community would do...hopefully I'm not the only one who considers this a similar topic.
A party is griefing your low-level alt. They are probably your level, but they outnumber you at least 3:1. Attempt to handle it with the alt, knowing you don't really have a chance, or log your main for some easy kills? What about calling high-level friends, is it really any different?
A party is hosting someone that you, for whatever reason, kill on sight. Odds are you can take them all on, or at least drop him before his party can save him, but the rest of the party aren't involved other than being in the wrong place at the right time. Attack anyway? Target your opponent and run if the party backs him up? Kill anyone who flags?
For the first part, griefing is totally legal, so is training, and thats what the guy is trying to do. Get the mobs to aggro on you so you die and drop items which he picks up ^^
Secondly, to bekkar:
In the first situation, I would call my clannies in for some sweet easy frags. And when they come in, I'd also join the fight, even on the alt(easy to go red on a lowbie, so easy to wash it off.)
If a party has an enemy of mine, it is their problem. They should know about politics enough to know about ongoing wars. So smoke the guy, if his party helps him, smoke em, they're taking a side.
If they see two war tags, and someone in their party is dieing off to people who aren't flagged, they should be smart enough to assume they are at war.
If they see two war tags, and someone in their party is dieing off to people who aren't flagged
I see two people flagged it doesn't tell me all that much (they could be in the same alliance for all I know). By the time they're fighting, however, it's too late.
But I'm still curious about the person that knows every clan and with whom they are at war.
Farmers use to do this all day long in Cruma when fake death never failed. If you see a train coming, stop fighting immediately. Stun them if possible. (big if). There isn't much you can do when high level idiots do this but learning how to survive a train comes in handy at all stages of the game. I still get trained to this day.
They should know about politics enough to know about ongoing wars.
Kindly list all of the clans currently at war and with whom, please.
It is even worse than that; you would need to know every person's KoS list. The original situation was someone they 'kill on sight.'
Charmille: If you attack someone in a party, they SHOULD kill you. They are not 'taking' any side other than loyalty. If you can't see the difference... That is sad.
Theres an easy Way to avoid Trains in Necropolis and Catacombs since they changed some Aggro Management in C3. Fight and kill the Mobs in the Hallway not in the middle of the room, since Mobds dont attack you outside theyr spawn point (Hallways in Catacombs) someone can train 100 Aggro Mobs on you and tehy just stand there and wouldnt attack you.
This may slow down your kill speed a bit since someone need to go and pull the Mobs outside but atleast its safe when griefers are near.
Mobs will still aggro if they are social with what your attacking in the hall way. I have come upon the "lost mobs" standing around in the hallway acting confused. Normally in a room they would have jumped me by now, but they just stand there. However if I smack one, the others that are in social aggro range get mad and come after me too.
That being said I doubt trying to stun someone or stop attacking mobs that you have been killing is going to be effectinve against the higher lvls trying to train you. I have been able to carry half NoS on my back walking room to room with no worry since I hit B grade. Most of them miss me and the one's who do occasionally hit me hit for so little. If the bots I am atempting to train log off, or I accidently come near "real players" one swing of my pole and all is solved.
In any case if a higher lvl is trying to grief you you can try logging off, but if your in the middle of attacking something the game wont let you because you are in combat mode. In this case you should stop attacking your one mob to keep the 100 other mobs being dragged onto you from attacking. To survive the one you have stopped attacking but is still attacking you just run to the gatekeeper and port out if you can. And in any situation keep your cool. Panic has killed more than skills of a griefer. Keep your cool and think about what your doing and what you need to do.
You pull a Mob out of a room to a hallway and fight there people can train 100 social mobs on you and Feign death the Mobs wouldnt aggro. They just stand there and after a while they just spawn back in the room they got pulled. This is what happens when you fight in hallway and after the fight you see 10 of this huge mobs standing behind you doing nothing (someone tried to train you).
Now one of your party members may think "cool someone brougth us more mobs to kill" and start to hit 1 of the Mobs which just stand there. Yes now all others act social as if they are in same room and attack you.
As long you dotn smack one of the Mobs which get trained on you its safe.
Yes. If you fight a mob of type A and somebody trains ten mobs of the same type or which are social to type A next to you, those mobs WILL jump you if they see you hurt the mob you were fighting. You do not have to actually attack the mobs which were trained, they will attack you. Hurting a buddy=aggro.
U get griefed by someone stronger then u, u cant do anything about it and it goes on for a long period of time this is all very unpleasant but did u ever consider changing hunting spot??
My first thought is that "yes" you are correct... kind of scummy. It really is not good player vs player interaction. What's more... I've seen/met some of the most disgusting people in this game. It really attracts them. Either that or, because they can act like this they take advantage of it to the fullest.
However... once again I have to say, people need to really do some research about this game because I don't feel that they are anywhere near prepared when they buy it.
I remember once on our server, a clan took over Cruma. Would't let people in. If they did go in they were pk'ed.
In addition, is this behaviour any worse then a lvl 40 player going to the noob lands and just picking off players to their heart's content.
That's the game.
It is about player interaction. It is about outlaws and heros. The thing is ... if you were to read that on the box you would think.. oh cool.. I get to be a good guy... oh cool.. I get to be a bad guy.
Think is... the good guys and bad guys in this game really ARE good and bad!
And there are people who enjoy this. Just goes to show you "different strokes for different folks'.
The idea is that you get fed up...get your clan or alliance and drop them.
That is really how to play this sort of game.
It really is a shame though because it means you have to go red on people whose actions won't make them go red.
In the end you either have to stop them with force or change spots.
Problem is of course that the outlaws have it real easy on this game. There are lots of way to grief others and it is hard to defend yourself against it.
I would love to see GM's wheed out griefers like that, but they wont. I can either choose to stay or quit playing. So far, things like that don't happen often enough for me to resign this game in disgust.
But that's the thing. And probably why people like you are I really don't play the game as it was meant to be played.
you get some people together... clan or alliance and you remove them. If they are part of a clan then you have a clan war.
That is the way the game is supposed to be played.
But I suppose that people like you or me are more interested in a more compartmentalized play experience. "Today I will lvl.... tomorrow I will siege... next day I might craft and go to arena... some lvling... get ready for next siege" etc.
Charmille: If you attack someone in a party, they SHOULD kill you. They are not 'taking' any side other than loyalty. If you can't see the difference... That is sad.
Welcome to the world of L2. Some basic PvP rules I have seen:
1.) If someone attacks another member of your party and you are not involded other than being in a party with them at the time (ie your clan/ally and the attacking clan/ally are not fighting), DO NOT flag back.
If you do then you become a target...your clan becomes a target...your ally becomes a target for helping the enemys of the attacking clan. Even if they still end up killing you for butting in you flagged against them and got involded...now your at war along with your clan/ally because you tried to help out a party mate. Many times in this situation having the clan/ally leaders talk can smooth out ruffled feathers as long as you did not kill anyone from the other ally. If you happen to kill the aggressor then you just entered a war against them for getting involded...only you will get harsher retrobution since you actually killed the guy butting into business that wasnt yours. Again sometimes have clan/ally leaders talk about this can smooth things out but death is usually a bigger matter....in their eyes its fine for you to die for interfering but if they die because you got involded it usually fuels the fire for more conflict.
General rule that many use is if your in a party with someone elses enemys and they attck.
1.) DO NOT FLAG BACK.
2.) Move away from the party to show your not involded.
3.) Log out or Sit down
4.) SoE
Some of the more Extreme clan/ally griefer fights going on have different rules.
1.) If you are partyed with an enemy you are the enemy and will be killed.
2.) If you rez a dead enemy you become the enemy and will be killed..
3.) If you buff an enemy you become the enemy for aiding and supporting them and will be killed.
Essentally they will kill their enemys and anyone around them and if you get caught in the middle to bad so sad.
Take on Lionna server the whole Invincible/Mirage war against Chaos. Inv and Chaos will wipe out either side and anyone with them no questions asked...no hand holding to find out whos just there for exp and not part of the conflict. If you party with either side you can and will be ganked by either side. Sometimes you end up KOS to one side just for partying with the other a few times even if you don't get involded you are seen as a known supporter for XYZ clan and there for an enemy.
Politics can get ugly in this game. So always think before you act. I will group with anyone anywhere but I understand that by doing that I may end up between two fighting sides. So I accept that either I will die, have to log, or use a bsoe when I am with any of the politcal factions on the server. Keeps the game interesting to say the least.
I have been leveling and getting seals in the Necropolis of Sacrifice on server 2. It has been a CONSTANT grief fest with people dragging mops into your hunting area and dropping them on you. This is NOT about pvp.... this is strictly griefing. These morons are not hunting. They are NOT pvp'ing. They don't want the room you have. Strictly getting their greif hours in. Why the heck is this behavior allowed? Is it legal (allowed by the rules)?
This has been going on all day! I could name names but ....
hahaha you got pwnd by the 1337 *****z!!!!!!! hahaahh... noob...
that's y it is allowed... cause if it wasn't allowed... l2 would be another carebear game...
A suggestion I have that might be worth something is to make friends and party with polearm specialists. Human warriors, dwarves, and orcs all get polearm mastery skills. Get a good group with about three or four of those, and a healer or two, and watch as the trains that are dumped on you actually help increase your productivity.
Polearm parties smoke trainers almost 100% of the time.
[I had some A grades try this with me not too long ago in NoS on Lionna. I had two other polearms in party, and one Shillien Oracle. They dumped somewhere around 30 mobs on us, and we came out of it much richer, and much more experienced. That was about the time the griefer decided to PK our healer.]
hehe we did that in apostate the other day. Was in a aoe group and some TH started running around pulling agro trainning people. He got to our party and we already had a pull on us when he came by so naturally they all added. We wiped them out as easily as we had been pulling.
SO a group mate used broadcast and told the TH thank you can you bring another train by the exp was great!
We go back to pulling and sure enough here comes the TH again with an even bigger train. Again we clean up all the mobs and broadcast: Alright that was a bit better...think you can pull about 4 more rooms worth of mobs with you next time? Our healer is getting board but the exp is just so good!
So in one last vein attemp to train us the TH went and pulled the front mobs, the stunner mobs, even all the bats/medusa type mobs and brought them to us. This time the guy didnt keep going after he dropped the train but stopped to watch confident he would finally train us all.
We started wiping the mobs out so then the TH tried to pk our healer but the SPS with us did an AoE sleep and caught him since he was flagged then the healer rooted him. We finished killing the mobs and turned on him to kill him. As soon as we woke him though he bsoe out LOL.
Messaged him and asked if he was going to come back and pull for us some more and he got pretty nasty and told us all to . Didnt see him the rest of the night so guess he moved on...shame he really was an excellent puller!
hehe we did that in apostate the other day. Was in a aoe group and some TH started running around pulling agro trainning people. He got to our party and we already had a pull on us when he came by so naturally they all added. We wiped them out as easily as we had been pulling.
SO a group mate used broadcast and told the TH thank you can you bring another train by the exp was great!
We go back to pulling and sure enough here comes the TH again with an even bigger train. Again we clean up all the mobs and broadcast: Alright that was a bit better...think you can pull about 4 more rooms worth of mobs with you next time? Our healer is getting board but the exp is just so good!
So in one last vein attemp to train us the TH went and pulled the front mobs, the stunner mobs, even all the bats/medusa type mobs and brought them to us. This time the guy didnt keep going after he dropped the train but stopped to watch confident he would finally train us all.
We started wiping the mobs out so then the TH tried to pk our healer but the SPS with us did an AoE sleep and caught him since he was flagged then the healer rooted him. We finished killing the mobs and turned on him to kill him. As soon as we woke him though he bsoe out LOL.
Messaged him and asked if he was going to come back and pull for us some more and he got pretty nasty and told us all to . Didnt see him the rest of the night so guess he moved on...shame he really was an excellent puller!
You really should include the name of the guy that tried this on you. A little public humiliation goes a long way.
Unfortunately, I suspect lower-level people will become more vulnerable to training in a few days. Limited number of targets and a polearm downgrade for everyone under 40...don't expect to repeat that performance any time soon...
When I first started this game, I was pked ruthlessly in all the starter towns. Farmers would push me out of most good xp spots.
I'm level 71 now and fully able to defend myself and/or get revenge. This is L2, big fish eats little fish. At least you have many more options as to where to hunt than I did. I'd suggesting moving elsewhere, but as other people stated, you can either get some high level friends, or you move on.
Fighting back is an option, but understand the penalities. Me I suggest fighting back as I'd rather go down swinging. Not to mention you'll learn how to pvp and handle trains. This is not something that will go away (unless they change mob ai).
Ok, for all those guys out there: War tagged guy attacks a War tagged guy in your party and doesnt flag = war is going. You do not interfere or you're an enemy, period.
It's a bit more complicated with red war, but usually red wars are well known on the server. On Teon, it's Exile vs Twilight, Immortal Alliance and Defiance, Serverpolice kills Defiance and vice versa too. Others seem to have a declared war going so it's easy to spot the war tags. RussianMafia is fighting Equinox, same goes for whole Syndicate ally. Wolfpack and Triads are in war with LeFap. Insanity ally is in war with Epidemic clan and so on. IF you take a war tagged member into your party, you might be considered an enemy for that alone.
Kieva posted the basic pvp rules that many alliances and clans seem to follow. If you get involved in the fight, you're an enemy so better stand aside and let them fight each other. It has nothing to do with loaylty, since people should only be loyal to their clans/ally and friends, not to some random partymember67045 who just happens to be in a war with someone.
You interfere with war, you become part of the enemy, simple as that.
Ok, for all those guys out there: War tagged guy attacks a War tagged guy in your party and doesnt flag = war is going. You do not interfere or you're an enemy, period.
It's a bit more complicated with red war, but usually red wars are well known on the server. On Teon, it's Exile vs Twilight, Immortal Alliance and Defiance, Serverpolice kills Defiance and vice versa too. Others seem to have a declared war going so it's easy to spot the war tags. RussianMafia is fighting Equinox, same goes for whole Syndicate ally. Wolfpack and Triads are in war with LeFap. Insanity ally is in war with Epidemic clan and so on. IF you take a war tagged member into your party, you might be considered an enemy for that alone.
Kieva posted the basic pvp rules that many alliances and clans seem to follow. If you get involved in the fight, you're an enemy so better stand aside and let them fight each other. It has nothing to do with loaylty, since people should only be loyal to their clans/ally and friends, not to some random partymember67045 who just happens to be in a war with someone.
You interfere with war, you become part of the enemy, simple as that.
Maybe the policies differ from server to server. On Bartz the general consensus is that if someone is sporting war tags, you stay out. You should know when inviting someone with war tags that you may have enemies coming to drop him.
PK war, we defend the party member, but whether you drop the attackers or you get dropped the issue usually ends there. Not saying that's what always happens, but generally the way it's handled in game (on Bartz).
Unfortunately, I suspect lower-level people will become more vulnerable to training in a few days. Limited number of targets and a polearm downgrade for everyone under 40...don't expect to repeat that performance any time soon...
Yes, a major flaw in the new system. It only helps griefers and I surely se the griefers doing this tactics with more enthousiasm as before. This has made Li2 NOT a better game.
Well the game might get worse with regards to griefing being easier, but karma has a sense of humor. Nowadays when someone is griefing a newbie, they never know if that character is an alt or a first time character.
Grief an alt, and a level 70+ nuker or archer might just show up to mete out justice. Multiple stuns = dies to his own train. Or an outright pk might be in order. Either way, kinda stops the griefer's fun.
Welcome to the world of L2. Some basic PvP rules I have seen:
1.) If someone attacks another member of your party and you are not involded other than being in a party with them at the time (ie your clan/ally and the attacking clan/ally are not fighting), DO NOT flag back.
Depends on the server.
I don't always party protect (sometimes it's just worthless and/or too risky for other party members), but I do it time to time. And in some clan wars I have friends on both sides.
Welcome to the world of L2. Some basic PvP rules I have seen:
1.) If someone attacks another member of your party and you are not involded other than being in a party with them at the time (ie your clan/ally and the attacking clan/ally are not fighting), DO NOT flag back.
Depends on the server.
I don't always party protect (sometimes it's just worthless and/or too risky for other party members), but I do it time to time. And in some clan wars I have friends on both sides.
In our Clan/alliance we have a policy to not involve in wars ongoing between two parties and IF such a war tagged player is amongst our team we inform that person we will not back him/her up. Wars are not our place to take sides upon unless it's a common ennemy.
On the other end if it isn't a war tag and just a question of one person having a grudge or what ever against someone (who's not in our clan/alliance) I will check on who is IN on defending the team mate and who's not. Those who aren't OK with it can leave (and if lower levels are with I always dismiss them from team). Those who stay behind to defend the attacked team mate know the rules of PvP.
Naturally sometimes you can see from upfront that a fight back won't make any difference...In those cases I don't even bother to react back and I'll suggest the passive action towards the attacked team mate as well. If he/she decides to still go ahead although it's clear it's useless, then I'll order all my clanies/allies to soe out (which coinsides with the war tag politics).
But I do think that in most cases if people are not in war and they are attacked by someone who is sworn to get him/her they call mostly their own clanies rather then having outsiders involved. Which I believe is the best way for both sides.
None the less, it all depends on situation, moment of crisis and internal clan/alliance issues going on.
In any case, on my lower level toon untagged if I stand 3:1 and I don't stand a bit of a chance I'll let the buggers go red on me. Their problem if they drop afterwards and my right to play their forced PvP game as I wish it. Besides on the lower levels it's not a death or two three that will make me go flagging on a lost case...Heck it's more SP's to spend and their Karma to work off :D
Necro posting anyone?? The Thread is almost a year old. Anyway, if smoeone in your party gets attacked, dont flag on the attacker if you dont want them to have incentive to go after you. No guarantee you wont get killed, but it safer. I always fight back, whats the point, its just a game and you drop nothing now.
In our Clan/alliance we have a policy to not involve in wars ongoing between two parties and IF such a war tagged player is amongst our team we inform that person we will not back him/her up. Wars are not our place to take sides upon unless it's a common ennemy.
Ive asked myself sometimes in the past where you guys are, from a political point of view. How you descripe a common enemy? :D
On the other end if it isn't a war tag and just a question of one person having a grudge or what ever against someone (who's not in our clan/alliance) I will check on who is IN on defending the team mate and who's not. Those who aren't OK with it can leave (and if lower levels are with I always dismiss them from team). Those who stay behind to defend the attacked team mate know the rules of PvP.
Well, how do you find out its a wartag? I mean, it happend in the past that ppl simply didnt gave us the war back, but we still fight and go red on em. 1-way war is still war. Do you ask strangers before you party them, if they got wars up? PvP is fast sometimes. What happens if ya hunt with some random guy in a cata and a single nuker appears. 2secs later without a word spoken your partymate is dead and the nuker red. What you do then? While this doesnt really happen at higher lvls, at lower lvls (like 40-50 and 50-60 cata) this might happen.
well one of these people was A or B grade gear. I doubt my D grade dwarf would have a chance at a stun.
you'd be surprised what a D grade dwarf can pull off.
i was sieging, one of my clanmates stunned the opposition's siege golem multiple times. dwarf leading the siege golem ... 66 lvl.
mmmh.
we killed em.
LOL. Dont even suggest such an idea. My level 76 WS very rarely gets a stun off in PvP. Of course my opponents are usually decked out in epic jewelry and S armor.
The point is that anecdots about stunning high level toons are just stories. Of course it could happen, but more likely you we be killed once you flag.
The point is that anecdots about stunning high level toons are just stories. Of course it could happen, but more likely you we be killed once you flag.