Problem: Most caster classes (8 out of 12 total) can wear light armour. However, the set bonus of light armour sets is usually geared towards physical damage dealers, such as archers and daggers (they offer attack speed, evasion, and usually modifications to physical stats).
Proposed Solution: Add a fourth type of armour class (next to 'robe', 'light armour' and 'heavy armour'). This armour should have the same defense ratings as light armour, but it should have set bonuses geared towards casters. It would not give physical classes additional evasion, but it would bestow the same boni as proper light armour (or maybe slightly better) on casters using it.
A way to implement this would be making available a new way to unseal boots and gloves to make a full set with an existing Light Armour, or to make unsealed boots and gloves for robes create a new set with light armour.
Is a good idea. Since it seems the devs are short on artwork, they could even do institute it by using existing items that work as a mage-set when combined with different items.
E.g., majestic robe when worn with unsealed light gloves and boots makes a robe-ish light armor set.
Or do it the other way, that a light main armor with robe gloves boots makes a new set.
Is it really needed to add additional armor type ? Armor masteries already give different bonuses for specific classes -i.e. from light armor orc mages get attack speed and MP regen, dwarves get evasion...
I can see 3 options available:
1. Add some light armor sets for non-melee classes.
2. Add additional bonus to all light armors (like slight MP bonus i suggested in other post).
3. Add additional bonus to light armor masteries of non-melee classes.
Too bad SH doesnt have light armor mastery :p I like the heavy robes idea-just be sure that buffers wont be able to solo with them!(i need my empower you know!)
I have a WC lvl3x and for me light armor was always lacking. It doesn't have the PDEF of heavy yet the MP loss from robes is very significant. So I ended switching robes and heavy all the time.
Yes, there are some light armor sets worth considering but the armor class as a base is lacking. Robes and heavy are good without a set and with set even better. Armor sets should be a bonus, not a necessity.
No way! Mages don't need heavy robes...Why? Well they are Overpowered, everybody knows it, and with this idea they would become even harder to kill (higher p.def)
The idea would be good if these types of armours would be restricted for all types of nukers (necros also). Others could use them...but in my opinion we dont ned 4th class of armors...what we need is a better sets for tanks, lol!
This discussion is not about mages. It is about healers, summoners and buffers which can wear light armor. Thing is to make it on par with robes or heavy and NOT giving a bonus to melee light armor users which are more or less balanced right now :P
I'd like to point you in the direction of BW leather armour which gives +3men (more mp) and +15% casting speed and +206mp (and all this in a light armour set, forshame). And if you have your armour masteries up to date then the casting speed compared to robes can be slightly improved with a homunkulus and +Wit tattoo's. Problem solved, no? As for other light armour sets. For a healer none are worth having really. So in that respect I totally agree, we need a battle mage armour. As an SE who dies alot from not being able to take the damge (BtB5 helps but not always), I support that idea.
EDIT: I know mages aren't supposed to be able to take that much damage... But as a healer dang nabbit, i want to be able to stay alive just long enough to heal someone who can kill the mob, not stand toe-to-toe with mobs and melee them.
EDIT: I know mages aren't supposed to be able to take that much damage... But as a healer dang nabbit, i want to be able to stay alive just long enough to heal someone who can kill the mob, not stand toe-to-toe with mobs and melee them.
Just a fun fact, an SE with untouched CON has more HP than a SH with +4 CON. (yeah I know, SHs are super squishy).
Well lets see, for B-grade, heavy using DDs have 1 choice, BW since Zubei and Avadon plainly suck and Doom is for tanks(generally.)
For A-grade, heavy DDs, Tallum or Majestic, Tanks NM or DC. So we dont really have that many choices either. You on the other hand can already pick between ROBES and LIGHT ARMOR. You can have more versatility already, why you need even more?
Give melees SUPER HEAVY armor instead, with high MDEF bonuses since it seems all that NCSoft is doing is upping magic dmg.
/not signing this, there's already too few melees around.
Zubei has almost the same PDef as doom and is stat neutral, with an HP bonus. It does not 'plainly suck'. Avadon is nice if you're trying to DD on one hand but want to block with buffs.
The fact that the sets are relatively weak does not mean they don't exist.
And no, we can not have 'more versatility' - how many healers do you know who chose light armour? I'm sure none. Can you guess why this is?
And yes, I'm all for special tank armour sets, wearable only by pure tank classes, with signifcant MDef boosts. But that's a different topic for a different thread.
(Are there too many healers and summoners around, based on that last line?)
for starters, my clanny uses bw light and is a SE. Lots of em around actually, BW light is good for small groups, especially if the SE has a decent melee weapon too.
Doom Heavy
+320 HP, Increased breath gauge, CON +3, STR -3, +24% Shield Defense (when shield equipped)
Zubei Heavy
+5% pdef, +294 HP
Now which is better for a tank? Care to tell me why tanks use Doom even when they're 6x?
Avadon Heavy
Increase HP by 294, +24% Shield Defense (when shield equipped)
Blue Wolf Heavy
+7 Run Speed, +5% HP regeneration, STR +3, CON -1, DEX -2
Avadon has no DD bonuses, it is doom without stat modification actually. Only viable option for Gladis and str based destroyers is BW. The rest got nothing for us, so yea, you got it good. You can actually pick from BW light, BW robes, Divine or whatever. For healer/nuker classes C-grade sets are fine pve wise. Hell, some nukers exp till 75 with Demon set. Show me a melee going to 75 with FP?
Giving even more pdef with added bonuses to nukers/healers would make this suck even more. It's hard enough already to kill them with melee. You're a support class if you're a healer, you're not meant to duke out the dmg. The guys you're supporting are your "armor", hide behind them.
For a tank that does not wish to dump their STR through the floor, both Zubei and Avadon are viable alternatives.
I think you don't understand the difference still between "no sets available" and "no good sets available". There are plenty of sets in A and B grade designed with a melee DD in mind (for heavy: Tallum Heavy, Nightmare Light, Majestic Heavy, Majestic Light, Dark Crystal Light, Blue Wolf Light (yes, the regeneration bonus means quite a number of archers pick it), Doom Light, Plated Leather (often worn into the 70ies...), Blue Wolf Heavy, Zubei Heavy, Avadon heavy (there are <gaspshock> in theory DDs/supports that can use a shield, such as Swordsingers and Glads), Zubei Light).
Melee going 75 in C Grade: Archer in Plated Leather, the first to make 75/75 in NA, Zert (Zelt?).
Why would beefing up healers hurt anyone at all?
Healers have their Light Armour masteries precisely so they don't have to be a target as soft as nukers (please don't argue healers are supposed to be squishy in robes when every single last one of them has an armour mastery).
You're a support class if you're a healer, you're not meant to duke out the dmg. The guys you're supporting are your "armor", hide behind them.
finaly someone that knows what he/she is talking about :eek:
Proposed Solution: Add a fourth type of armour class (next to 'robe', 'light armour' and 'heavy armour'). This armour should have the same defense ratings as light armour, but it should have set bonuses geared towards casters. It would not give physical classes additional evasion, but it would bestow the same boni as proper light armour (or maybe slightly better) on casters using it.
MalineII: get why dont you get used to the fact that a healer/buffer aint suposed to be able to **** thru mobs like a DD(or tank) :mad:
Every class have its benifits and drawbacks! get used to it!!!
I'm not requesting robes that would help PvE. In PvE, the current choices are fully sufficient.
In PvP, healers are supposed to have the option of light armour to make them less squishy - but at current, there is a limited amount of armours of each kind, and they're not being designed with healers in mind.
As a result, healers mostly wear the one set in all of D, C, B, A and S-Grade that is remotely suitable for them (BW Light), but that's not a possibility in PvP as it hampers casting speed too much. It's also worth noting that Blue Wolf Light already requires an actual healer to have a backup armour set (it can not be used by itself), as it has a negative WIT modifier.
This would not boost the PDef a healer can have at all - it would simply mean the healer can cast a bit faster (or resist a bit better) in that PDef.
You miss one other point there, Archers ARE NOT MELEE. Archer= ranged dmg. Ranged IS NOT MELEE. Melee is fighting with swords/daggers/blunts/polearms, not with arrows from range 900. Melee, NOT ARCHERY.
So again, give me an example of a melee going to 75?
Also, equipping a Gladi with shield is insane, they use duals for almost all their skills, why would someone pick a shield? Thats same as equipping a nuker with polearm.
And btw, most of those armors are not an option since guess what, they're not heavy. See a tank using light? See many Dwarfs using light? See Destroyers(using it regularly, not just to up their str with plated leather for that 10k patk screen shot), Warlords, Gladiators(very limited) using light? Daggers are the only melee class that use light, cos they're evasion based. Tyrant can go either way, but is more efficient in lights, so it can actually choose between light and heavy.
Then again, ever seen a Prophet using heavy? They're pretty good that way.
From your list, Tallum Heavy, Majestic Heavy are designed for A-grade heavy using DDs, BW for B-graders. C-grade has none, neither Composite or Fullplate add to the DD abilities.
Swordsingers are not DDs, they're a support class, so those are excluded also.
For tanks, it's the same, only a few armors they can rely upon. Doom for B-grade(oh my god, -str, how can they manage when they take -8 from tats... tank is a tank, not some str beast.)
Also, you can use any of the robe/light sets, so you again have more versatility. I'll throw that "no sets available", "no good sets available" back at you. You can dress up in Doom light if you want to, same way as I could pick Zubei Heavy. But will you? No, neither will I.
For a healer, BW light, BW robes, Divine set, Karmian set, Doom robes, Doom light, Zubei robes, Zubei light, Avadon robes, Avadon light, DC robes, DC light, Maj robes, Maj light, NM robes, NM light, Tallum robes, Tallum light. You can actually use em all with your masteries so you got lots of armors to choose from. So, they're not so good for you? Same goes for the armors we can choose from.
Just to point something out, going blunt+shield on a glad is actually a good choice in a lot of ways.
For one, you have a stun ability. When was that ever not good? Also, you have a shield. Guess what? You can block hits now. Isn't that lovely? And all of your skills, save for Triple Strike, Double Sonic Slash, and Triple Sonic Slash can be used. Now you can be ranged, stun AND block. What makes that so insane, hrrmmm?
Equipping a gladi with a shield may be ******ed - if you don't use a blunt, which is designed (unsuccessfully) to be a viable alternative.
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The whole point, before you, Charmille, went and confused both yourself and myself, was something else altogether. I admit with shame that I allowed myself to get dragged all the way through off topic land and back by you, thinking you were discussing what was presented here, when you were not.
The premise is that the vast majority of light armours are designed for physical damage dealing classes, which I called melees, which confuses you. We do not have the word 'melee' in common usage where I come from, which is why I almost consistantly use it wrongly, and I apologise for that.
Whether or not there are enough tank sets (check: Mithril, Brigandine, Chain, Composite, Full Plate, Zubei Heavy, Avadon Heavy, Blue Wolf Heavy, Doom Heavy, Dark Crystal Heavy, Nightmare Heavy, Majestic Heavy and argueable Tallum Heavy all add to a tank's ability in one way or another) is of no relevance here. If you feel there is a shortage in heavy armours that tanks can benefit from, make a topic about it.
The next question (of no relevance) is whether or not there are enough heavy sets designed for damage dealing hybrids. Once again, the answer is: Yes. All classes that can wear heavy as well as light have a mixed defensive and offensive function, the classes are by nature designed to benefit from all the sets (with the exception of the bladedancer, who does not benefit from Avadon Heavy in any way).
Now, are there enough light sets designed for those hybrids, or pure physical DDs? Once again, yes. Even the healer set is frequently worn by them, because it offers them a boost to MP regeneration and pool, which is an important asset to them. With the exception of Blue Wolf Light, every last light armour is designed with physical combat in mind.
Lastly - blue wolf light is not suitable as main armour for healers. It is acceptable for buffers, but a healer that wears nothing but blue wolf light will make himself very unpopular very, very fast - unless he finds himself a clan rich enough to afford a BRez for every death.
Now that I've said what I think about what and how much armour is available to the different classes, I think you will agree that no other light armour is suitable for healers or buffers (arguably Manticore, Reinforced Leather and Tallum Light are - then you realise that mana pool to a healer is the same as HP to a tank, i.e. 'usually unimportant' and realise how silly a proposition that is) - in short, they're not getting their full for their mastery.
All I'm suggesting is the implementation of further armours to help make healers less squishy, and help summoners back into their role as a healer class (which they are, if you look at their skillset).
I don't see a shortage of choices for any other mastery area, but if there are, give them more cake!
Chill mate :p Tanks need luw too ya know.I would not go a Glad if i got to use a blunt+shield duh! That thing about the super heavy tank armor is nice! But i still cant see WHY a tank in 50kg of armor is running faster than a mage in robes (game balance but still).I say give some speed penalty to super heavy armors(nothing much-around 5) and slow/entangle skills to all tanks too.
I think tanks should have 2 roles-protect the weaker chars(they CAN take most dmg of all!) and DISABLE(via stun or slow skills) enemy archers/nukers.I hope NCSoft makes them as they should.
Do you see why a mage who is supposedly a physical wimp can take several swings from a sword without getting his spell interrupted? Mages are supposed to drop in one hit from anything if you get into logic - thank god this game isn't balanced around that. :eek:
And this game doesnt need heavy robes either, since you already have all the nukers/archers/melees working as your "armors". They're before you, blasting your attackers to kingdom come. Stunning them, slowing them etc. You do not need that pdef. Healer/buffer classes have crowd control spells like sleep and root, they can heal themselves and their party. They got lots of stuff to prevent them to get harmed, so giving them extra pdef with good casting bonuses is something I dont wanna see happen. You want to either cast fast with an uber big mp pool, or you want to survive a few more hits. Pick one, dont expect to get it all. With good pdef light armors that give good caster bonuses, SE's would most likely be able to solo fairly easily. I know a few SEs who solo with their wolves, using BW light and having high patk weapons.
I have 3 ES in the same clan with me, BW light is fine for them. When they get to C4, they are going to test various robes, since with C4 some robes might actually be better for them. With pet SS and all that, adding good caster set with nice pdef would make them rock even more. Wonder why summoners rocked in olympiad on PTS if they are gimped by their armor choices >.>
IF they'd add heavy robes, they'd need to do heavy light, and light heavy too. Give something to all classes. I sure as hell would like to have more armors to pick from, but as I'm a STR build destro, BW, Tallum and Majestic are the only options for me if I want to optimize the dmg I'm dealing. I have light masteries too, cant see a good light armor for my class there tho(plated leather for some nice archery feats but thats it).
Last I checked, you can't have that 'armour' in PvP. Nobody is going to stop to hit that knight who doesn't have PvP hate when they could be going for the healer. Even if he is surrounded by dangerous targets, a healer is frequently a primary target (whether rightly so or not is a different thing). Root affords zero protection from dangerous classes. Sleep takes one switched target and hotbar sleep scroll press, and is no protection either.
In all this, you seem to fail to see that there already is a caster light armour in the game. It offers the 'uber cast speed' of robes and above average protection for light armour. It's just that there's only that one.
Why not add more, continue the trend? Just like all the bonuses designed for melees aren't good (Avadon Heavy and Zubei Heavy are both boni designed for physical classes, and you are quite correct in assuming them 'pretty much inferior), not all heavy robe bonuses would have to be absolutely awesome (unlike robes, which are just ridiculous - especially sets like Dark Crystal and Majestic just make me want to poke my eyes out when I read them).
Summoners are not gimped by their armour choices, but 'rocking the olympiad' is a rather laughable comparison. Summoners are strong, true, but the list of weaknesses runs longer than their list of strengths. Did you know that servitors can be feared, can not hit mobile targets, offer no protection from leech spells (you can't leech HP out of targets with remaining CP - against a summoner, no problem), are suspectible to stun under PvE rules and just all around in deep trouble in PvP, if the opponent knows what they're doing?
As for heavy light: Why not? I'm all for making all armours fully worthwhile for hybrids. Mixing and matching sets for more equipment variety and less rigids builds would be awesome, especially if it helps melees - and clears up more space in Heavy for proper tank sets.