I think it would be nice if you could dual mage swords... the result would be the duals have higher matk and lower patk... it would also allow for magical sa on dual swords.
Hmm interesting. This would let me use duals, and maintaining high m.atk. <3 duals. They gotta have acumen though. But I guess they would have to be plussed to 4...
<-- enchant chicken
i think it would be a nice addition. escpecially for healing classes that like to duo or party in small groups. im thinking something along the lines of...
homunkulus*sowd = mana up
homunk*homunk = acumen
sowd*sowd = conversion
of course thats only c graded swords, but i myself agree this would be a welcome addition to helping healer classes get benefits of good SA's with a somewhat raised p.atk to help their groups.
i think it would be a nice addition. escpecially for healing classes that like to duo or party in small groups. im thinking something along the lines of...
homunkulus*sowd = mana up
homunk*homunk = acumen
sowd*sowd = conversion
of course thats only c graded swords, but i myself agree this would be a welcome addition to helping healer classes get benefits of good SA's with a somewhat raised p.atk to help their groups.
/signed
actually those would be b-grade as homu and sowd has the same crystal value as tsu
a grade would be sov*sov
s grade would be elemental*som
as this would keep crystal value inline with current duals... the matk wouldn't be doubled, but instead would go through the same formula as current duals... only matke would be primary... also cast speed would need to be reduced from the use of duals, but it could have an acumen sa on one or two sets... (after all there is a haste sa on duals)
I was thinking more unique sa like passive wm (stackable with wm buff), mana regen 25% (valuable to both bd and mages) stuff that would be unique to the duals, and would not focus on helping nukers as much as summoners/wc/healers/prophet..... but a good acumen sa would be nice on one of them :)
oh and som*som (although not possible cause of crystal count) would be the sexiest thing in the game.....
I don't see why not because it would be inline with melee duals and could be setup to be fairly close to the staffs.
But I still wonder why they don't have more duals of all the weapons... dual daggers, dual blunts... dual bows...
Ok I guess just dual daggers and dual blunts would be nice for those with blunt special skills if they let them cross over as well. This would solve the problem with alot of the classes of not being able to use their blunt special skills with a proper high p.attk weapon. (Gladiators, Destroyers, Warsmiths, Bounty Hunters, Warcriers, Overlords)
a bomt is harder to get than sov*sov would be... also there is the fact that bomt is a blunt so decreased crit rate... something a summoner might not want... also for a bd he would most likely not want to trade patk for matk, but it might be worth it depending on the sa... like a mp regen sa... but other than that a bd wouldn't switch...
Dual SoVs would be sweet looking. I think there should be mage duals, because some D and C grade healer classes use duals anyways so that they can assist with damage as well as heal buff.
Dual Aobas <3 Come on, why only swords can be dual wielded? Why not two "blunts" ie all the cool axes and such? Aoba x Deadmans Glory anyone? Also Sword x Blunt duals would be nice, and Sword x Dagger duals(old rl fighting style, 1 longer sword and 1 long dagger)
Dual bows, dual books and such you can forget >.> And no, no dual dragon slayers even if they would be sweet :P
Dual Bows was just in jest but I was serious about the dual blunts and daggers. Being able to mix and match would be nice as well and then there would be plenty of additional SA's to choose from.
I also agree with the dual mage swords. I've always thought that would be a welcome addition and a nice change of pace from the staffs.
I understand the idea. I see how it can work, 2 swordsof mystic could be top d grade (same m.attk like SoL and such). But for A grade I only see it working for Ele sword.
Yup make it a small boost to the M.atk(not double lol) and this will eliminate the "shield" problem :p(you will also need 2xSoM-which ISNT easy :()
Shield problem? I wouldnt give up my shield for duels it has saved my life way to many times. Plus I think duel sword Matk bonus if it was the same as Patk bonus when you duel them would make us nukers do even more insame damage.
Yup make it a small boost to the M.atk(not double lol) and this will eliminate the "shield" problem :p(you will also need 2xSoM-which ISNT easy :()
Shield problem? I wouldnt give up my shield for duels it has saved my life way to many times. Plus I think duel sword Matk bonus if it was the same as Patk bonus when you duel them would make us nukers do even more insame damage.
/agree, what is this a thread where all the nukers plot how they can become even more powerful???
I guess I don't see what they'd add really, in terms of gameplay. Basically they'd be the same as a 2-h blunt for damage, but with different graphic, possibly different crit rate?
You could do something interesting with them and make a mini-acumen + mini-health SA. Like half the bonus for each... Then it'd at least be something different.
Conceptually, I find it odd that someone like a sword singer has no talent for dual swords, but an ES is quite adept at ambidextrous sword-slinging...
what is this a thread where all the nukers plot how they can become even more powerful???
because melee users dont do that. :rolleyes:
i like the idea mainly because its an idea that is BEST used by HEALER AND BUFFERS, and not by NUKERS.
so as such i think an SA so very commonly found on healer with duals is Health. i use it on my dual SoR's and i can now take a pretty good hit without really loosing much and my tanks all love me that i can grp greater heal at a decent amount enough to bring me back.
alongside this very thing, the SA of Bless the Body is also a popular thing for SE's to have and Bishops to carry around. not that we need it. but useful.
so maybe one that could potentially benefit both healers and buffers is a dual with an SA NOT UNLIKE "mana up" nor unlike "Bless the Soul"
and i can already hear you all say " but nukers will run for those over anything else!" no they wont, not with MEDIOCRE matk bonuses, if ANY. it most definitely helps healers and buffers of all types.
but if we get dual magic swords, we need sual magic sword mastery to make the most of the Patk ratings of the weapon. we like to solo too, you know. kiranya can attest to that.
All I want is dual magic SLS! I love those swords...and even if they just had the same Mattak as a SOES, I would still be happy...except they would be about the same price as a SOES... :D
i like the idea mainly because its an idea that is BEST used by HEALER AND BUFFERS, and not by NUKERS.
and i can already hear you all say " but nukers will run for those over anything else!" no they wont, not with MEDIOCRE matk bonuses, if ANY. it most definitely helps healers and buffers of all types.
Ok did a little figuring ou here. This started out with dueling mage weapons where the Matk would raise up like the Patk does on regular duels.
Imagine this
Sword of Valhala Patk 140 Matk 122 so I used a raid sword for reference since its Patk is same as Sov Matk.
Duel raid Patk 190 no OE
So suel SOV would have 190 Matk no OE
Right now SOM base matk is 152. So duel SOV is already higher than SOM.
At lvl 76 with a +3 SOM I have over 1k Matk unbuffed I do about 2k damage on regular skills. Now add in empower 3 and Matk is over 2k so damage would be around 4k with regular skill cant event imagine what a crit or my over-hit spells would do.
Do you still think only healers would use the duels. Every nuker with any branes would kill for those duels no matter what the sa was on them. With full buffs dances and pots I could still get cast speed close to or over 1k.
Nukers would be so over powered it would ruin the game and im a nuker.
Then this again is using the same stats at dueled raids. Even if it only raised the Matk like normal dueling does it would still put duel sov's Matk high enough all nukers would grabe them.
So this ide really wouldnt work unles Matk stayed the same and only Patk raised up.
Ok did a little figuring ou here. This started out with dueling mage weapons where the Matk would raise up like the Patk does on regular duels.
Imagine this
Sword of Valhala Patk 140 Matk 122 so I used a raid sword for reference since its Patk is same as Sov Matk.
Duel raid Patk 190 no OE
So suel SOV would have 190 Matk no OE
Right now SOM base matk is 152. So duel SOV is already higher than SOM.
At lvl 76 with a +3 SOM I have over 1k Matk unbuffed I do about 2k damage on regular skills. Now add in empower 3 and Matk is over 2k so damage would be around 4k with regular skill cant event imagine what a crit or my over-hit spells would do.
you are doing your figuring wrong... an sov does not have the same crystal count as a raid sword. it has the same as a kesh. an sov*sov would be a-grade. a raid*raid is c-grade... so haveing it around the same stats as an som is exactly what we are try to accomplish....
Good example:
kesh*kesh increase the patk by roughly 1.48 of a regular kesh. It increases the matk by 1.17. so if we make the mage swords matk multiplier by 1.48 and patk by 1.17 we have duals that look like this:
SoV*SoV:
Patk: 164
Matk: 180
SoM
Patk: 186
Matk: 152
This is quite similar to the increase in physical duals over solo weapon.
even if we use the same formula:
SoV*SoV (physical style)
Patk: 207
Matk: 143
this is slightly less matk than an som. it is however quite a bit more patk. and could be a great tool for non-nukers. Afterall with the phys setup there would be no reason y a nuker would take it over an SoM.
This is quite similar to the increase in physical duals over solo weapon.
even if we use the same formula:
SoV*SoV (physical style)
Patk: 207
Matk: 143
this is slightly less matk than an som. it is however quite a bit more patk. and could be a great tool for non-nukers. Afterall with the phys setup there would be no reason y a nuker would take it over an SoM.
This is hardly overpowered.
Thanks that makes alot more sense than what I was trying to get across.
If the duels were set up the (physical style) no I wouldn't want them.
But if they were set up for the (magic style) Matk 180 I would be all over having the duels no matter what the SA was.
Good call Spudnik, not all mystics are mages. Healer types would love a little boost in p.atk and m.atk to allow them to solo. Especially non-SE types that everyone loves to ignore since we've not VR. ;)
Kruken said he wont drop his shield no matter what :p(no dual swords for you!).M.Atk is NOT P.atk-a top A grade duals should have around 160 M.atk(enough to drop the SoM but not enough to drop tanks easy :p) Also the most important thing is that NUKERS will drop the shield(archers are gonna be VERY happy-since we can block 50% of the dmg they make to us with those shields).
Thanks that makes alot more sense than what I was trying to get across.
If the duels were set up the (physical style) no I wouldn't want them.
But if they were set up for the (magic style) Matk 180 I would be all over having the duels no matter what the SA was.
but what i was tryin to get accross is that there wouldnt be the same formula used in making dual magic swords as dualswords.
with dual sowd or dual homunukulus, youd get B grade duals with matk less than B staffs (i mean B swords already are less, but thats not the point), because its B grade you wont get nukers spamming giran for them unless the SA was of any value to a nuker. Spellsingers have their own MP regen buffs and casting speed out the wazoo. in order to make somthing to be of NO value to a nuker, u either lower the Matk, or the type of SA. i know personally that i as a bishop absolutely love my BTB crystal staff. its not as powerful as my Body of Avatar spell, but i use it so i save mana for when its crucial.
with a dual sword of occult (D grade mid magic sword) you would get extremely cheap dual magic swords (on devianne roughly 1.2m each sword -- overall cost the same of dual 96's!) with nothing of value to those who smite mobs royally using magic. being D grade, its upgradeable at mammon, has no SA, has less matk by comparison to dual 96's of same value, but exactly what the inherent buffer ability is, i cant say. its D grade.
talking C grade, you got the dual Shillien Knife, or Kukuri (i know its a dagger) to get into mid C range, and dual ... something else... for top c.
an idea that requires more variety of magic swords and daggers is requires for me to finish my thought lol.
and Kiranya, kudos on your 56ness. may mana be with you lol
There are ways to balance the stats so that they come out close to the staffs. That is not so much the issue in my opinion. I think its just a great idea as far as offering yet another option for gear. That and dual swords of whispering death or homunkulus would look very cool.
If they wanted to get more far out they could offer half-n-half duals with one fighter sword and one mage sword. This would really be of benefit to warcryers and other classes that need a mage weapon to land their spells but still do most of their damage via pummeling.
If they wanted to get more far out they could offer half-n-half duals with one fighter sword and one mage sword. This would really be of benefit to warcryers and other classes that need a mage weapon to land their spells but still do most of their damage via pummeling.