As most of you know I was sent to New Orleans to help FEMA with the recovery from Hurricain Katrina. I lost about 3 months of play time on my Elemental Summoner.
I came back to play about 2 weeks ago and spent most of my time on the pts testing the master summoner skills and new c4 quests.
I have real mixed feelings about the new summoner skills. Here are my thoughts.
Most high level summoners have grinded solo for over a year with mixed in clan and alliance parties. Most parties did not WANT a summoner in a party unless they needed a backup healer (unlimmeted battle heals). When we did find a party the -30% xp made it almost worthless for us to want to stay. The only time it was worth our time was when a clan or alliance party let us leach without using our summon.
C4 brings along the super summoners. Our summons use ss and sps with tons of hp and patk/matk. This is great for the guys that stuck with grinding for over a year. Add to that the party summons that gives EXCELLENT buffs that stacks with ANY other buff and BINGO all of a sudden summoners are going to be a hot party member.
Now here is why I have mixed feelings. Our party summon only takes 5% xp and everyone will want us in a party now. That will make for fast leveling, however it also negates the year we all spent grinding. New summoners and rerolls will have the benefit of only loosing 5% xp and never have a problem finding a party.
Summoners used to be a unique sight in towns and parties....now they will be the FOM and it (sorry to say) makes me kinda feel short changed. I liked the feeling of being unique and one of a select few. Most of the summoners on the server became close friends because we understood the feeling of lonelyness.
Anyway enough of my rambling while waiting for c4 servers to kick into effect.
Summoners used to be a unique sight in towns and parties....now they will be the FOM
I really, really doubt we'll see this a month from now. They're still going to be 5-10% slower than average gaining levels. They still have an indirect playstyle that doesn't appeal to most players. They're still mediocre in PvP.
You'll see a few more, but they still won't be particularly popular. Probably have a short upswing while people test the changes and get all excited over those "uber summoners"...then after a week or two they'll be saying "screw this" and go back to their Spellhowlers ;)
Way to ignore everything else I said and turn on the hostility :p
"Insane"? "c3 summoners were great in pvp"?
I think "great" is exaggerating. Spellsingers were "great"...how often did you beat even-level spellsingers? 90% of the time? More than half of the time? If it's less than that, it definitely wasn't "great", because you're losing fights :p
So maybe "great" was an exaggeration, how about a slightly lower target..."pretty good"? Archers were "pretty good". I don't think you'd do much better, your summon couldn't hit a moving target until C4 :)
Summoners, individually, have decent survivability and low damage output. Summons, individually, have low survivability and high damage output. A common tactic to wipe the floor with a summoner was to disable the summon quickly (low MDef and vulnerability to PvE skills/spells, often it took seconds), then kill the summoner the same way you would any other class that has low offense and high defense.
Ever had someone trick your summon into attacking you? It's hilarious other than the part where you die to yourself ;)
Sure, you could win if you're a better player, but that's not saying much. How often did you win against someone who was good? Who used all available tactics to disable and destroy?
So basically, a summoner could win if he was a good player and his opponent wasn't, or if he was playing a character that isn't considered "pretty good at PvP". That's not "great", that's "moderate" or "ordinary"...synonym to "mediocre"...which is exactly what I said.
Try again.
I do have more than half a clue, but I'll assume that was just an expression ;)
Don't take test server PvP seriously. Frankly, nobody knows how to play their classes there--I think on some level you realize that with your "if they didn't know exactly how to kill me" comment. If crowd control spells aren't being cast at your summon in the first few seconds, it's like not trying to slow a melee or silence a nuker--they're letting you win by not exploiting your greatest vulnerability.
Agreed about the necromancers, unfortunately. Makes people who started them before the hubub look bad...although they were just as overpowered in C3, so most can't claim that defense (I don't ;) ).
Disabling the pet in C4 is going to be interesting...
I fought a mage 5 levels higher in full A-grade (DC/SoM+4-no SA) than me 1v1 who could not keep my pet and I slept.
I was unbuffed and my Nightmare was still sealed.
I owned that mage without having gone to 50% health or lower once.
FYI, this is open PvP, not the arena
In the arena, I was 70% win ratio vs mages (on PTS)up to 5 levels higher. Spellsingers, SH, Sorc... all of em died quickly to the pet. Low DPS my left foot...
The only classes that owned me consistently were necros or characters 6+ levels higher.
Summoners are great in a stand-up fight, but in the past there were simple tactics that basically crippled them...but nobody's been nailing your summon with aggro-switching (confuse, hate, etc), rooting it, slowing it, sleeping it, etc? If they've gained some sort of resistance to that method, it would be quite a boon.
Also, not to be discrediting your findings, but it's always possible you were simply a more skilled summoner than they were skilled nukers ;)
(was the "low DPS" comment directed at me? I can't tell, but I know I never said that)
Bek, did you play on the PTS as a summoner? or perhaps are you trying to apply what you knew about summoners in release?
I think perhaps you are overestimating the "skill" it takes to play a mage (or frankly any class) in 1v1 combat.
Being that I have played a Sps since prelude, I can safely say that mages are not exactly the most subtle of characters.
Everyone tries to abuse sleep... even the mage newbies...
One can safely assume that a PTS mage is gonna sleep sleep sleep and sleep some more....
I'd say a PTS mage is about 95% of a release mage 1v1 given the mages' ease of use.
"How" to kill a summoner in c4 is to either control the pet (sleep isn't gonna do it) with root or fear (which doesn't land often through mental aegis on PTS) or to KILL the pet after sleeping the summoner. (1 in 40 with nightmare and Mental aegis which is pretty much undispellable with the nerf on cancel)
I dont think people understand just how nerfed cancel is... I was 2 for 25 vs even level targets (76 spellsinger)...
Either my luck is horrible, or cancel = dagger specials in C3.
You're correct, the vast majority of my summoning experience is with live C3. In my defense, the post you were debating was in response to what Morgase said about C3 summoners, so it actually is relevant. I don't claim to be a C4 expert, I'm planning to get that experience on live, where it actually matters (all I tested was a couple PvE styles to see what I needed to change). In C3, pets could be controlled, and that control really hurt summoners when it was used...if changes elsewhere have caused a passive increase in summons' resistance to these effects, that's quite helpful.
I think perhaps you are overestimating the "skill" it takes to play a mage (or frankly any class) in 1v1 combat.
Most players suck at it, and I admit I have an inherent bias against the uninspired. If someone can't be creative, I call that "poor play" when logically it's probably "average"...but geez, let's raise the bar a little, maybe mix a "slow" in with those "sleep" and move a little :eek:
Even in parties ( I rarely soloed, it was abit to slow and boring for me ) the exp was still slow as I normaly had Poot out. Sometimes though I would ask the party if they cared if I had the summon out or not, and thus go from there.
But now...Not only will I and of course the other summons get parties and lvl 25% faster than before, but we are more useful to parties. We will be better in pvp, sieges and even the festivals too.
To me, that's amazing.
But of course summoners were amazing the begin with. It just depends on who's playing the summoner and who's playing their prey. I myself have always had an easy time killing ANY tank many higher lvls than I. Archers and dds are in the middle, and without nm light nukers still won. ><
It just depends on who's playing the summoner and who's playing their prey. I myself have always had an easy time killing ANY tank many higher lvls than I. Archers and dds are in the middle, and without nm light nukers still won. ><
See, I think that was fairly standard in C3. If that's changed...mmm...
I never had someone successfully confuse or hate the pet...
(So this is still a possibility)
Kai was a repeated target for root, sleep, and fear.
Sleep is a non-factor. It seems to wear fast now, or perhaps transfer pain was breaking it.. either way, Kai did not stay put very long and neither did I even unbuffed and in sealed nightmare.
Fear and root were annoying, but a little mental shield goes a long way.
A simple C grade weapon with mental shield SA made fear and root a rare occurance. Full mental shield buffs made them extremely rare.
Most of my losses came from having my pet controlled successfully or getting crit on at the wrong time...
Ths is all fair as when my cubic procs I won automatically as well.
Anyone unfamiliar with fighting summoners died VERY quickly. (ignoring the pet is fatal because casting through Kai swatting you is a pain in the backside)
Anyone who thought sleep was enough for the pet died quickly. (Pet must stay controled and sleep doesn't stay)
My success vs mages might also be because I am aware of their weaknesses (due to my play experience) and have no fear of them...
How nerfed sorceres were? I mean im playing to play one...i hope is not true ehat ya saying...
Sorc and Sps had the majority of their sweet spells nerfed.
-AoE anything hits 20 mobs... the hardest hit is Sleepcloud which was used to stop trains... The worst part is the "which 20 mobs" mechanism... its random... so if someone trains you with 60 mobs, the first sleepcloud will affect 20, the next will hit a random other 20 (maybe the same) and the next will hit another random 20... if you have two mages with sleepcloud they are both now very dead and your party isn't long either...
-Aura Flare in PvP has basically been removed. You use it once and it works normally, then for 3 seconds your next aura flare will do less damage (nerfs Matk) Repeated aura flares will hit for 1.
Aura flare for 800
Aura flare for 400
Aura flare for 200
Aura flare for 1
Aura flare for 1
-Cancel has a LOW hit rate... cancel needed a nerf, but they overnerfed it bigtime. I was 2 for 25 even leveled... thats an 8% hit rate which I hope is just bad luck. I hope that is not typical or cancel is pretty much removed.
-With cancel nerfed that hardcore, Mental Aegis becomes god and sleep is nigh worthless in PvP.
This is great for summoners, but c3 dagger-like for Sps/Sorc.
I thought TP breaking sleep was fixed a while back, but maybe it wasn't.
I agree that mental shield can make or break a fight...not just for summoners, although it's particularly interesting for them.
Anyone unfamiliar with fighting summoners died VERY quickly.
...
My success vs mages might also be because I am aware of their weaknesses (due to my play experience) and have no fear of them...
These are related, and very likely key to your success--knowing your enemy makes you a more dangerous opponent, not knowing your enemy makes you weak and inefficient.
Any reccommendation on wich profession to choose?? please help this newbie...
Sorcerers had a couple overpowered skills that got fixed. During normal play I doubt you will notice anything wrong. Play one if you like one, don't worry about the "OMG nerfed" you're hearing--they used to have an "I win" button in PvP that got taken away, and they used to have unlimited AoE that now has a 20-or-something target limit.
Any reccommendation on wich profession to choose?? please help this newbie...
Sorcerers had a couple overpowered skills that got fixed. During normal play I doubt you will notice anything wrong. Play one if you like one, don't worry about the "OMG nerfed" you're hearing--they used to have an "I win" button in PvP that got taken away, and they used to have unlimited AoE that now has a 20-or-something target limit.
They still should be ok and doing very well in PvP. Even if a sorcerer noob like me got killed all the time.
Back to the topic.
You only get your party summon at a pretty high level. I think it is a good thing that summoners finaly have a reason to party for a change. I have more concerns on the amount of adana it takes to keep a summon running. With crystals and beastshots, I wonder if you can still make a profit. On the PTS this wasnt a problem and I loved soloing with my warlock (nothing like having your pet charge a deep red mob knowing he will win easily). But I like to know if pets and making profit works on the life.
It will if you stop hunting freakin red.. go for the green with pet ss: they'll cut through them like butter, while you could take a 2nd green on your own!
I've spent quite some time in the arena yesterday with my new summon, I can tell you we're great :p With the BSPS ability my pony now nukes for 900-1200 each nuke, 300-450 dmg melee against Light users, and fast. I pretty much can 3 shot (and a lil melee) most low HP melee now (archer, dagger). My summon was able to solo Wolf359f just fine, shes a real cool tyrant. Against daggers sometimes 2 nukes was enough. It casts real fast now because of BSPS.
You also seem to forget the pony gets UD2 and we selfcast emp3. Just turn on UD2, TP5, let pony nuke (900 range) for 1200 dmg each. Can easely do 10k dmg in the time UD2 is over. Meanwhile the target has to try take away (if he's not so stupid to attack a 3900 Pdef/3400 mdef pet) 7k "damage points" from me (TP5 halves damage I receive). I can chainheal myself for 260 "damage points" (battleheal worth two times cause of TP5).
Rooting the pet? 900 range and Summoners can cure root, slow, para after lvl 62 (since C3 already). So that's not a valid tactic.
With the new C4 changes you pretty much can forget going for the pony, I think best would be to try do that 7k dmg before you perished against the nukes from the summon (and the damage from the summoner).
Have yet to loose from a class in arena in C4. I didn't fight all classes yet so your invited to try. I wish to (retry) my new boundries as well and do not mind loosing at all. It's a learning experience for me to get the most out of my class. I never cared loosing against SpS in C3, gives me a challenge to try win. I'm in arena lot, I'll gladly accept any challenge =)
As for the FOTM - necro are too wanted. They get "our" TP5 and "our" damage output by using their own nukes, so they are more or less like us - but better..
...and thanks to views like that people who have a summoner in the making for a long time suddenly find themselves thrown in with the (mostly not long lasting) FOTM rerollers. Being frowned upon by the 'elder elite' or some crap like that, I guess. :p
What was said is true, just because summoners got a boost, their playstyle is still somewhat unique, as are Necros. I doubt any of those that follow the latest trend will be able to even play those classes, otherwise they wouldn't switch so much, huh? :)
So is this just to whine about having to have gone through all the 'hard' leveling that new summoners now don't have to do? On the other hand, the real newbies get buffs and free stuff but will never be able to kill Pirate Captain Uthanka or White Fang now, so everyone wins and loses in the end. :p
Wow....just wow....about summoners. Reading all that, I am still going to avoid the FotM reroll to summoner on my alt Dark Elf Wizard *my mains a swordsinger, yeah I wanted something fun to do*, but by reading about the ponies, it is very hard to not go Phantom Summoner...
*edit*
I guess I won't be going PS when my alt gets to 40, due to the fact im poor as hell and cant afford to be a summoner ^^
I guess I won't be going PS when my alt gets to 40, due to the fact im poor as hell and cant afford to be a summoner ^^
Playing a PS doesn't have to be expensive. You do have the option of using the Shadow to level, which in unbuffed play can be a superior option anyway depending on how you're hunting...and it's not as expensive as the Soulless. The pet SS might look expensive, but honestly it's not all that bad compared to the SS usage of comparable weapons, and on the shadow pSS also increase his self-healing.
Also, not that I'm advocating it, but as a summoner many players don't consider their own gear mission-critical. If you're a tier or two lower than others, so what, you're not the DD. (I'm a gear addict I guess, but that's what "they" say.)
Hehe thanks for that little bit of info Bekkar, but I might still go spellhowler since I am enjoying one shotting mobs, and that was the real reason I made a nuker alt, because I wanted to be able to solo pve and make atleast a small profit. I dont know yet, I need to do more research before deciding which class I will go as :)
Scary-good is pretty much what I am talking about...
Kai is a terror... warlocks at 62 have a 1300Patk pet with runspeed 242 and decent (but not great) pdef and mdef with almost 6k HP... (His special is a damage shield that is useful but not really that exciting)
Kai hits so hard and so fast that I almost killed a 66 Necro buddy by jokingly sic'ing the pet on him after he CDL'd me...
He started to say "isn't that cute" and before he finished typing he was almost dead.
I pressed the STOP button just in time... he has 20 HP left.
I was only planning on taking his CPs... I was VERY surprised at just how effective Kai is in PvP... He claimed Kai had critted him for over 1k. (Disclaimer... Kai had 75 SE buffs)
Warlock mass summons are horrible... partly because the Storm cubic is so lame. At 63, the storm cubic nukes for slightly more than I did at 63, (400-500ish) and goes off about 2-3 times average per x4 mob killed. Waste of D crystals even on the PTS where D crystals were near worthless...
Of course part of why I hate Storm cubic so much must be because Binding is just that good... Sure, it goes off once or twice per mob, and works every other mob... but the effect is "I win". Seriously, I don't think there is any single spell that is more fun in the game than Binding cubic... PvE, PvP, screwing with friends and enemies... It's all there.
With Binding cubic and Kai and various soul/spriritshots I still made a solid profit even when I divided my earnings by 10 on the test server.
I still think Necros will be the FotM, as Summoners take some patience...
Summoners do take awhile before they start taking off...
I will be subbing warlock... (not necro like everyone else)
I miss Kai and my Binding cubic already.
I am still sorely tempted to make a PS as my alt... DE males are among the best male models in the game... and Shock cubic seems like a winner. (It is less powerful effect than binding, but thus should go off and take hold more often.) I know exactly what Poltergeist cubic does and love it from the SK... The combo seems very potent.
Silence the summoner, root/sleep/para/silence the pet. Obviously root a melee capable pet and silence or sleep a nuking one. It's just like two players working together. They are great 1v1 but I have yet to see a summon kill much at a high lvl siege.
Advice? I have a few things off the top of my head, but I'm not an expert on C4 PS. Only played it a little, so far.
I don't know the Binding Cubic rate, but the Spark Cubic goes off around 2/3 of the time per 1x of the monster's HP. In other words, it's almost sure to go off at least once on a monster with 2x or more. Land rate varies but I think it averages more than half the time. It's not an "I win", though, because it only lasts a few seconds (like a normal stun).
I like it overall. I don't use it for most grinding, since stun isn't really that useful for me, but if you want to stun stuff it's a nice option.
A mass spark cubic would've been brutal.
The Poltergeist Cubic is handy on monsters with HP multipliers, but kind of pointless against 1x monsters, since they die so darn fast anyway.
Don't use a bow with PS cubics. Waste of crystals.
The Soulless will remind you of Kai, except that it's special abilities aren't as useful. You'll like the attack power though.
The Shadow is great for solo play, since it's passive VR combined with pSS seems to basically prevent you from ever needing to heal it. As of C4, it's a viable tank for one or two even-con monsters without being an MP sink. Sweet deal.
You can keep nuking until 44 or 45, at which point you basically give it up for good. They still land most of the time, but it's not really worth the MP, and you don't have the recharge abilities of the ES/Warlock.
Tattoos: +4con/-4str, +4wit/-4int, +4men/-4int looks like a decent PvE and a good PvP setup. Str is useful in PvE, since you're always attacking and do enough damage to be of help, but Con is your best friend when stuff is trying to kill you.
Obviously, don't kill your Int until you're done nuking.
I think I'm out of advice for the time being...ask away if you think of something though, there are a few PS that troll here.
Silence the summoner, root/sleep/para/silence the pet. Obviously root a melee capable pet and silence or sleep a nuking one. It's just like two players working together. They are great 1v1 but I have yet to see a summon kill much at a high lvl siege.
Silence wont do much. Sure we cant heal but we can still beat the crap out of you.
Sleep with NM light on wont really land much at all. Also if the summoner and summon itself has mental agis on as well. So...that wont really help now will it?
Root hardly lands on myself or Poot so..again doesnt work very well.
Para lands rarely, maybe an SK can get his to land but..again rare like the others.
Also all of our summons can do melee. One is a main nuker and another is an aoe but they can all melee. So..again, wont work very well now will it?
Luke, if you want to see a summoner kill at a "high lvl siege" follow myself, sciblade or Ehli around. Cause trust me..I can kill 70+ anything rather easily at sieges. I find it rather fun myself. Or maybe you're just laying on the ground to much to be able to see much of anything neh? ^^
I personally thing that now in c4 Summoners will be even better in sieges, with our summons new buffs and mass cubics, it's going to be a whole new experiance. I'm rather excited about the next siege I may go to, I wouldn't mind making abunch of gimpy dds and what not kiss the ground abit more. :)
Silence wont do much. Sure we cant heal but we can still beat the crap out of you.
I think it's more to prevent things like resummoning, servitor UD, etc. If you're silenced and your summon is incapacitated by some means, it's pretty much over, because you can't deal with the problem.
Silence wont do much. Sure we cant heal but we can still beat the crap out of you.
I think it's more to prevent things like resummoning, servitor UD, etc. If you're silenced and your summon is incapacitated by some means, it's pretty much over, because you can't deal with the problem.
Oo Really? Normaly by that time the other person is dead. ^^
Luke, if you want to see a summoner kill at a "high lvl siege" follow myself, sciblade or Ehli around. Cause trust me..I can kill 70+ anything rather easily at sieges. I find it rather fun myself. Or maybe you're just laying on the ground to much to be able to see much of anything neh? ^^
At Giran you entered, sent poot after Luna who ran and healed herself. I, meanwhile, established target for the nukers, watched you die with zero kills, then turned to kill poot while it was still chasing luna. So ummm done?
Im not saying summoners are superb or uber, Im not saying theyre weak. The modern siege is all about damage. How hard do you hit? That's all that matters these days (ok well hitting, position, and targetting). Really a lot of elements fall minor to these. The melee isn't bad damage, but the nukes are a little weak. The cast speed is nice though. Overall I'd still rate the summons secondary to real Nukers and archers. The damage is moderate, but hey, you get a free healer devoted to a player, and good pair ups like that have strong effects, especially with a well trained healer.
All in all, I'm glad some of the summoners are significant now. Drekkonis deserves some respect for something other than his name :P But on the large scale siege? Necro's are pop because they still launch their own attacks and have high hp. That's the real kicker.
So, overall, I think you exaggerate :p But nowhere in there does that mean you aren't good. But when the nuker pt just targets poot all as one, he drops like anyone else. Don't blame me for the facts, I don't design L2.
Err luke how the f can you describe summoners performing in sieges now when no siege happened in C4 now? Shush now, ty. Don't compare us to C3. Our Mirage now nukes the same or more as an equal level SH. Silence *us*, good way to loose. As if silence sticks anyways. Never got that happen before. I have yet to loose my CP in pvp now, let alone HP. So far Tokara > me, but that seems to be the only class (though I still have to fight SpS, but SH couldn't get thru CP either).
As for bragging how Mawata, in her low 60's was unable to kill a 75 SH and friends in C3. lol. At least come up with a more even scenario to brag about. It's not like you can even scratch us as paladin.
Err luke how the f can you describe summoners performing in sieges now when no siege happened in C4 now? Shush now, ty. Don't compare us to C3. Our Mirage now nukes the same or more as an equal level SH. Silence *us*, good way to loose. As if silence sticks anyways. Never got that happen before. I have yet to loose my CP in pvp now, let alone HP. So far Tokara > me, but that seems to be the only class (though I still have to fight SpS, but SH couldn't get thru CP either).
As for bragging how Mawata, in her low 60's was unable to kill a 75 SH and friends in C3. lol. At least come up with a more even scenario to brag about. It's not like you can even scratch us as paladin.
Ehli, read, I'm not discussing 1v1. I'm talking about, as I said, mass pvp. On the siege ground it's all about who hits hardest. The artillery groups currently dominate the battlefield and your mdef hasn't really changed much (maybe unseal some jewels but now you can't take zerk so it evens out). You still end up blasted first round from the nuker groups, and then the pet just wonders after its last target. Harmless. If blessed doubled your pets C3 damage you still wouldnt nuke HARD. You're outstanding in small pvp, but then again, you're really two units. Neither functions without the other.
Again, don't yell at me; I don't make the game. I also find it funny that people defensive about their class cut up mine. Oooo maybe I'll subclass ES then what're ya gonna say :P
Err luke how the f can you describe summoners performing in sieges now when no siege happened in C4 now? Shush now, ty. Don't compare us to C3. Our Mirage now nukes the same or more as an equal level SH. Silence *us*, good way to loose. As if silence sticks anyways. Never got that happen before. I have yet to loose my CP in pvp now, let alone HP. So far Tokara > me, but that seems to be the only class (though I still have to fight SpS, but SH couldn't get thru CP either).
As for bragging how Mawata, in her low 60's was unable to kill a 75 SH and friends in C3. lol. At least come up with a more even scenario to brag about. It's not like you can even scratch us as paladin.
Ehli, read, I'm not discussing 1v1. I'm talking about, as I said, mass pvp. On the siege ground it's all about who hits hardest. The artillery groups currently dominate the battlefield and your mdef hasn't really changed much (maybe unseal some jewels but now you can't take zerk so it evens out). You still end up blasted first round from the nuker groups, and then the pet just wonders after its last target. Harmless. If blessed doubled your pets C3 damage you still wouldnt nuke HARD. You're outstanding in small pvp, but then again, you're really two units. Neither functions without the other.
Again, don't yell at me; I don't make the game. I also find it funny that people defensive about their class cut up mine. Oooo maybe I'll subclass ES then what're ya gonna say :P
Sorry Luke but Ehli's right. In C3 of course you can't expect me to be able to kill 70+ nukers ON MY OWN. Duh, a siege is when you have MANY helping, not a silly 1vs1. Lol? So of course ANYONE would die when you just run in and get nuked to hell. Now if you have others backing you up in a siege, I myself live rather easily. Plus, I enjoy just running in on my own, people get confused when they see a Unicorn running right at them, and it makes me laugh.
Plus the summon doesn't "wander around harmless" once we're dead. If it has a target and its in attack, it WILL continue to attack that person untill either it's dead or the person is. And trust me, I've had my summon kill plenty of people because they forgot I still had Poot locked onto them and they too thought he was "harmless." as you do.
We're outstanding in al pvp. Be it 1vs1, small or large, we're still great. Untill you actually play a summoner, don't even bother trying to talk down to us like that.
And no subbing one doesn't count. Sense you can't be a hero on your sub, summoner subs ( in my opinion ) will NEVER count as a true summoner. It's just a sub.
It takes a long time to be able to master the summoner, it's not easy. When I rerolled to one I had to either learn myself or have Sciblade teach me, as he is top summoner on our server and during that time I was in the same clan as he.
It's NOT easy.
There are so many different ways you can fight, hunt and etc as a summoner that it takes abit to learn them all and figure out your own "special" way of doing things.
So before you start talking about a summoner at ALL, make sure your facts are straight or you really are a true summoner. If not than...
Ehli, read, I'm not discussing 1v1. I'm talking about, as I said, mass pvp. On the siege ground it's all about who hits hardest. The artillery groups currently dominate the battlefield and your mdef hasn't really changed much (maybe unseal some jewels but now you can't take zerk so it evens out). You still end up blasted first round from the nuker groups, and then the pet just wonders after its last target. Harmless. If blessed doubled your pets C3 damage you still wouldnt nuke HARD. You're outstanding in small pvp, but then again, you're really two units. Neither functions without the other.
Again, don't yell at me; I don't make the game. I also find it funny that people defensive about their class cut up mine. Oooo maybe I'll subclass ES then what're ya gonna say :P
I'm not discussing 1v1 either. What part of the "I hit for more as SH equal lvl" did you not read? It shows you know nothing of summoners, esp saying BSPS is all what changed. Stats got upped too, FYI. www.l2pets.com (http://www.l2pets.com) < theres a good site to start get some clue about us before you act as if your know about classes you never played.
Saying we're even in RANGE of the offense in sieges is showing again how you have no clue about the class. We can issues attack across the screen and stay in backline with healers.
Do us all a favour and stop pretending to know about classes you dont play, please.
Just so you know, Luke: pets can now hit moving targets, which makes melee pets non-useless in seiges...still not uber, but at least they can hit stuff now; also, I believe the damage with beast BSpS isn't double, it's triple, which is actually getting to be quite respectable.
Yes, a summoner can be nuked pretty fast (although they last twice as long as the average DD and can devote 100% attention to staying alive, it's still not survivable)...but why is the summoner even coming into range? It's totally unnecessary for him to ever come within 900 of the opposing side.
Ask Kraker, Micxuy etc. They saw their dark panthers die in 1 nuke and 3 melee hits.
Furthermore, what bekkar said. We don't come in range and the pets not hitting moving targets is fixed. castspeed of nukes now close to that of a real nuker because of sps and more castspeed. I'll show you in next siege when I can target you. Don't whine if you loose 4% XP, though, because that bug still isn't fixed. Pet killing you = rules of mob killing you. Yes, also item loss.
yea Luke, the summon's nuke ability is very comparable to actual nuker classes. And I believe they can even get BD dances as well now so really there is no advantage of being a pure nuker over being a summoner as far as damaging nukes go. They die, ohh no, not some crystals lost :eek:. Then you got a dedicated healer and someone to support your summon.
And as far as summons making you lose full % AND possibility to drop stuff (dropping stuff is actually a rumor, I personally have never witnessed it) is probably not a bug. It has been a well-known fact for a while now that summons are treated as mobs and that was just one of the perks of being a summoner :)
8370 HP - Irrelevant change
2160 P.atk - Irrelevant (sorta) change
2067 M.atk - Relevant (you got another 15%)
230 runspeed - Relevant (you got 30% more than before)
bsps/ss ability - Relevant (3x or 2x and I thought bsps was 100% boost)
So it's mdef is the same if not less when hit with zerk. And still dies in a volley. You hit harder, 2k matk still way less than a SH or most player mages. The only interesting fact I've seen is the bsps 3x matk? You're gonna target and nuke at 1800 range? GL
Overall, I'm glad you got a boost, I'm glad you're happy about your class, and I'm sorry that my not being convinced seems to offend you. On a siege ground, you work as kind of a double edged sword. You're powerful because you're a two for one sale. A DD and a healer for only one clannie attending (SCORE) but on the contratry, when one of you dies, the other is useless. ATM I see nukers getting 20+ kills in a siege, and most summoners averaging a lot lower. You got a boost, and that's great, but I don't think its 20x as strong as before. So overall, I don't think you're going to be the new FOM and I don't think people are going to say you're overpowered. I think the summoner class is perfect now and has entered the balance it should've been in. I'm not sure why this offends you? But that's ok, my opinion contradicts and I obviously have all the reasons to be considered the bias one in the discussion.
I applaud your excitement for your class, I'm well aware I can't 1v1 you, but just looking at stats and history...you needed a lot more to be "nuker extent" overpowered. Again, I'm not sure why saying this bothers you o.O Well anyways, good luck, glad you're excited!
I disagree Luke, you kill a summon the summoner just retreats and summons another, all a summoner has to do is target someone, sic the donkey, and either run back to safety or stick around and support (which I think is their main advantage, being able to support their own personal and expendable 'assassin').
That aside, you're pitting one donkey (or whatnot) against a party full of wizards. What a bout a party full of summoners being steared by a tank then, huh?
I doubt your glorious gank squad will survive that for long.
Looks like you forget that the summon's cast range is high enough to run up to the casters, kick in UDef and mass aqua the crap out of said wiz party and whatever poor sod runs in between... all the while leaving the summoner way out of the casters range and still being able to support the summon.
Now imagine about five doing that simultaniously...
Summoners who know how to play and not just send in one killable asset after the other are a far cry from what you seem to have been playing against.
That aside, you're pitting one donkey (or whatnot) against a party full of wizards. What a bout a party full of summoners being steared by a tank then, huh?
I doubt your glorious gank squad will survive that for long.
Looks like you forget that the summon's cast range is high enough to run up to the casters, kick in UDef and mass aqua the crap out of said wiz party and whatever poor sod runs in between... all the while leaving the summoner way out of the casters range and still being able to support the summon.
Now imagine about five doing that simultaniously...
Summoners who know how to play and not just send in one killable asset after the other are a far cry from what you seem to have been playing against.
Namárië
Badger[49]
Hmm well I agree a summoner, as anyone else, belongs in a party assisting, but essentially the assists and nukes come a little slower (no acumen SA, standard slight delay on occassion for pets). Combine that with lower damage and mdef, the summons have to be rebuffed. The nukers whipe the summons then kill the summoners while resummoning? Now the hp on the summon is pretty high...maybe with a sws to boost mdef you'd see em knock a pretty mean hole. But that shorts you a dd. The summon is an interesting class, don't get me wrong. They're certainly powerful now, but the classics still don't seem to have the damage dishing power of the necro's or pure nukers. And, I think that sets them back a step. It's interesting.
Don't get me wrong, nobody is saying summoners are a weak class. I'm just suggesting it's still a leap to suggest we're going to see rampant destruction on the battlefield outside the nuker/necro grp atm. I always thought it would be funny to have everyone sub a summoner and go into battle with like 40 or 50 summons charging about. Can you imagine the lag?
I doubt it'll ever happen, but I'd love to see what Badger49 described...a herd of AoE summons run to just within range, all UD, then open fire on the enemy groups. Sure, the summons would all eventually die, but in the meantime you have a squad that's half-tank, three-quarters-nuker, and absolutely unafraid of death :eek:
I do think Luke is right about a few things, though.
I think summoners have hit their balance point, it's minor tweaks or no change at all from here on. This is the way it always should have been.
I don't think we'll see summons with huge bodycounts in mass PvP--not small either, but they won't be matching the pure nuker squads...but then, I doubt the pure nuker squads are going to blast their way through a whole seige and not die a single time, either :D
If it's against a nuker party, don't even bother UDing the merrows.
Bring in a Queen, and send all the Unis to atk the same nuker.. just one after the other. GG at targeting a merrow buffed with 270* run speed.. GG to survive to 8 merrow Patking the poor robe user with pss... lol, 1 hit per nuker, that's all they would need to put them down.
Eventually, Use the first Uni as a bait: make her ud right in front of them all and chain casting its bsps AoE: she'll be targeted first and the time the nukers will realise the UD thinggy, it will be too late. If you still plan on UD+AoE: use one Seraphin.. AoE casting rate would be crazy.
PS: Pet bsps is 2x the damage, just like bsps it doubles the dmg, increase the land rate, fasten the cast speed.
If it's against a nuker party, don't even bother UDing the merrows.
Bring in a Queen, and send all the Unis to atk the same nuker.. just one after the other. GG at targeting a merrow buffed with 270* run speed.. GG to survive to 8 merrow Patking the poor robe user with pss... lol, 1 hit per nuker, that's all they would need to put them down.
Eventually, Use the first Uni as a bait: make her ud right in front of them all and chain casting its bsps AoE: she'll be targeted first and the time the nukers will realise the UD thinggy, it will be too late. If you still plan on UD+AoE: use one Seraphin.. AoE casting rate would be crazy.
PS: Pet bsps is 2x the damage, just like bsps it doubles the dmg, increase the land rate, fasten the cast speed.
Then the nukers aoe the summons and silence the pet...There is still more precision in a controlled character, but like I said, two for one is good. Every trick you've got, there's a way to counter, and played chars are gonna react faster IMO.
No, they frequently do. Especially the necro's with 12k hp after transfer pain.
As a nuker, I die very often in sieges... I get lots of kills and lots of deaths... I guess you could spend your time huddled in the castle praying that someone doesn't find you, but what fun is that?
Even 70+ nukers are two or three shots for any damage dealing class...
Necros are harder to kill but still die... (their pet still has low pdef and mdef) and all nukers run out of mana in a hurry if they are actually doing any good...
To give you some perspective...
In any siege my nuker has mana enough for the first and second rush and then I get to sit for awhile at the flags/throne room.
(This is all provided I don't get targetted early...)
Even if I don't die, my downtime is high.
Someday this passel of mage-worshipping melee should actually play a mage in a siege... it is fun but this whole "die in three hits" thing gets old fast... and the whole "manaless wonder" thing is enough to drive the most patient guy insane...
Summoners seem to keep going and going and going... During the last Aden siege I saw summoner pets in the thick of it constantly (I think it was Ehli's pet that just wouldn't go away...) and they only took a few hundred more damage than players did to my nukes. Pain in the butt to kill in C3... let alone C4.
Could I take a summoner 1v1 in C3 with my nuker? yeah... I probably could... could I take them manaless? um... no...
Sieges are about endurance as much as they are damage output...
For Mr Pally...
Has your nuker fought in a longer (90+min) siege lately?
For the summoners, how is your endurance? How quickly are you manaless in longer sieges?
For Bek, the mana drain for the Soulless... at the early levels I tested it, the soulless was such a mana drain to be lesser than the shadow overall... does this drain become less of a percentage as you level?
For Bek, the mana drain for the Soulless... at the early levels I tested it, the soulless was such a mana drain to be lesser than the shadow overall... does this drain become less of a percentage as you level?
I didn't use the Soulless much in C3 due to it's annoyance factor and unimpressive stats. Naturally, they changed the latter without altering the former *sigh*
I did use the Soulless for a few 40-ish festivals earlier in the chronicle, and I don't remember MP being a huge issue even with TP on constantly, but that was a while ago and my memory might not be stellar.
I believe the drain is a constant amount regardless of your level, but honestly I couldn't prove it. You do slowly pick up more levels of Fast Mana Recovery, though, so if the MP drain really bugged you, it probably wouldn't be annoyed forever.
Either way, you could always just use the Soulless when your MP is high and Shadow when it's low, now that you have an unsummon option.
Edit: "manaless"? What does that word mean? :D
Two summoners get a pocket MP battery and the third doesn't tend to spam spells...
For the summoners, how is your endurance? How quickly are you manaless in longer sieges?
Easy answer; never. I simply cant spend my mana. It pony dies just recast, its only 1 D crystal. There you go full mana and HP. We also can selfbuff emp3 and haste2, so no need to ask for buffs to get it going again at the crowd.
Thanks for the nice summary, hope luke learns a bit about non paladins now. You may call me defensive, Luke, but it just irks me you can think of so many wrong ideas that are just downright not true. You base your facts of whatever you read or heard without having played a summoner (or a nuker for that matter, after I read above post).
Please, stick to schooling people about what you know best - your own class. I prefer people like Chlorine (fathips) who try "odd" things with their class to see what they can do, to get the most out of it. He's done so many odd/stupid/fun/good things, it shows he likes to explore the boundries of his class. Happely he sticks with that, opposed to you who always has something to say about other classes. Dunno why you try, maybe to sound cool and knowledgable? You keep speaking about an uber nuker squad begging you to give them the next command. At least base your comparissons with something else. Your just a pally.
It's getting a bit old by now, correcting your unfounded theories; but here goes a last time: we can cure silence for the whole group with one button, close to instant cast. Your "silence" method doesn't work. The cure works on all summons and people in the party. Also cures root, sleep, para, stun. Please do stop thinking of new strategies with your nuker squad and first read up on some knowledge. As said earlier I recommend www.l2pets.com (http://www.l2pets.com) to start.
Last, I'd like to point at the title: "C4 Summoners". Your first few posts talk about C3, then based on that concluding why they are no factor. Odd.
Ok I am all for ubering up summoners, I never really saw one in my short time of playing, but after hearing how bad they were in past chronicles, sure give them a boost. But after reading this thread, don't you think they were well...boosted a bit too much? I hear Mawata and Sunspark talking about their "nuker" summons having as much hp as some tanks and doing the same damage as some nukers. I ask this. What made summoners suck so bad in previous chronicles? The 30-90% xp reduction in having pets? Pets were useless? What? So far from what I've read, they've made pets xp useful "lowered the amount of xp pets consume". They effectively more then doubled their attack power, reading I believe Mawata's post, her pony has 2400 some odd pattk. How many classes other then rangers have that? As I said, I am all for ubering up summoners and making the class useful/partyable, but even after all this, bar the fact summoners went through x amount of time before becoming useful, I think even summoners have to say that their boost was a bit to much.
But after reading this thread, don't you think they were well...boosted a bit too much?
...
I think even summoners have to say that their boost was a bit to much.
Honestly, all they got were abilities they could use in a party (without them, they were being cheated) and soulshots for their main weapon (without them, they were being cheated).
I know how some of these posts probably sound to someone who hasn't played a summoner, but...seriously, it wasn't too much, you're just missing a lot of key facts. The answer to your "was it X that made them suck" questions is "yes to everything you mentioned, and more you didn't even know about!"...no joke.
As an extremely simple example, you've heard that summons have tank-like HP. What you probably didn't hear is that the summon has less PDef than a nuker in robes...so all that HP is actually just more MP the summoner uses up if he tries to spam heals in a bad situation (part of the reason a summoner shouldn't even bother trying). Part of the reason people have suggested (whether or not it's wise) going for the servitor first is that, in the end, it's actually an easier kill, high-HP or not.
I'm on my way out the door, but hopefully now you have an idea of why it really doesn't look like "too much", just "it's about freakin' time!"... :D
Well from how the experienced summoners on the server have put it, they went from being garbage to being able to take out every class in the game without breaking a sweat, reason I posted what I posted, and going from that it sounds like they were made a lil bit to uber, but ah well.
*edit* And going off a few other posts, the summons recieve sws/bd songs as well, they should have atleast made summoners have to buy armor/weapons for their pets lol. Again ah well, whats done is done.
But after reading this thread, don't you think they were well...boosted a bit too much?
...
I think even summoners have to say that their boost was a bit to much.
Honestly, all they got were abilities they could use in a party (without them, they were being cheated) and soulshots for their main weapon (without them, they were being cheated).
I know how some of these posts probably sound to someone who hasn't played a summoner, but...seriously, it wasn't too much, you're just missing a lot of key facts. The answer to your "was it X that made them suck" questions is "yes to everything you mentioned, and more you didn't even know about!"...no joke.
As an extremely simple example, you've heard that summons have tank-like HP. What you probably didn't hear is that the summon has less PDef than a nuker in robes...so all that HP is actually just more MP the summoner uses up if he tries to spam heals in a bad situation (part of the reason a summoner shouldn't even bother trying). Part of the reason people have suggested (whether or not it's wise) going for the servitor first is that, in the end, it's actually an easier kill, high-HP or not.
I'm on my way out the door, but hopefully now you have an idea of why it really doesn't look like "too much", just "it's about freakin' time!"... :D
This is actually closest to the truth I have actually seen. As one of hindemith top summoners I decided to stay away from this topic because some people will simply not understand untill they actually play a summoner also because when it comes to other summoners opinions on a subject there are some who feel they are guru and set the trend. Summoners before c4 and still now are just a competly differnt style of playing, and those who havn't played as one just simply won't understand untill they pick up the class and put down their point click kill nukers and archers.
C4 changes were all needed, they were not over powered, they were a long time coming, the boost does seem like to much only because untill this point summoners were so rare some didn't even know the class existed so now it appears only a small handful of people now have powers superior to most. There are players i have known for a long time but NEVER partied with until c4 because of the boost and I have actually gotten to meet alot of new people outside of the open beta/c1 crew and I thank NC soft every time i log on that they did this because now i can enjoy the game on a level that most of you have been used to since you started the game.
its true that the Pdef of actual summon is lower than a mage in robes, and for pvp purposes i won't touch on actual strategy on beating a summoner but it can be done even with the boost.
Silence the summoner, root/sleep/para/silence the pet. Obviously root a melee capable pet and silence or sleep a nuking one. It's just like two players working together. They are great 1v1 but I have yet to see a summon kill much at a high lvl siege.
you need to open your eyes more and look over your shield.
most people arn't paying attention to summoners in sieges and don't notice the 1.2 k ptk pet eatting away at their hp until their dead. and still eating away at their hp long after the summoner has expired.
Well I'll take your word for it Drekk, I was just going by what I was reading from the experienced summoners here. I know that for instance, if a Gladiator got a boost and were saying that a full group of gladiators could all of a sudden take out a full group of mages, people would be saying the same thing. And seeing people post that 9 summoners will pretty much destroy 9 nukers when they couldnt in C3, well that just made me wonder if they were boosted to much. I mean, if you didn't play a summoner Drekk, wouldn't you see that as a bit much? But if the improvements were needed then that's cool to, I hope they improve swordsingers as much in the next chronicle. :)
Summoners are now competitive and have some nice advantages... but they also have some disadvantages.
Summoners are now an even fight with a mage.
Instead of class >>>> all, it comes down to tactics and who got surprise and who handled the encounter well.
This is a good thing.
The only classes that have a legit complaint at this point are the melee people who still need a sprint skill or long range snare of some sort to allow them to actually catch the archers who they are supposed to own and who are currently invulnerable to melee as the melee will never catch them.
I would also advocate a pump-up in the strength bonus applied to melee weapons when they land.
Necros need a tune-down as 10k+ HP mage with as much or more firepower than a nuker is quite simply godmode.
Nevermind the pet which rivals the summoner's pets patk and has just as many HP.
1.2k Pattk? Mawata or Sunspark are saying they have 2.2-2.4k....kitty weaker then pony? i refuse to believe it!
Ehli is 73ish so her summon being having 2.4k ptk is understandable
I am 66 and my Mew has 1.4-1.5ptk
and I am not sure where Mawata is in level and all summoner pets have the same base stats atleast where P.ATK is concerned.
and I agree if I was an outsider peering in and a class that was once at the risk of falling out of existance SUDDENLY appeared ont he radar with strength enough to rival that of a nuker and a gladiator heck i would say "yea thats over powered" but if they had started of with strength from c1 we would all just put it in the same category of nukers "alot of power that we can't really do anything about except try to find a way around it."
Like I stated unless you play a summoner you won't truely understand them, and unless you played a summoner in prelude - c3 you won't understand what we went through.
I been kicked out of parties because i wasn't "DD enough" could you imagine how that feels? could you imagine playing 10 +_ hrs a day just to end up with 5 - 10% on your level to show for it and only be low 60s? could you picture playing just as much or more than players who been playing less time than you and watch then zoom by you in levels and everyone just write you off as not playing enough? Could you imagine knowing the only way to gain decent exp 60+ is a party and join one knowing that you are the most useless in it and then you have to find ways to proove use to them (healing, cubics, super spam of soul shots) just so you don't get booted?
That is the world of a summoner before c4 Ask Validor when he subbed as a warlock he came to me and said "how do you endure this?" and I just shrug and said "I keep my self occupied with politics and crafting"
before c4 was annoucned i was on the verge of rerolling (right after I folded my alliance) and play a class I could enjoy but Sciblade/Mawata/Ehli Convinced me to continue to rough it out and join up with Divine, and within them I was givin parties regardless of my poor party role which I owe a great deal to.
I have nothing but outmost respect for any player who played a summoner from prelude to c3 and stood by it, I have met many warlocks on other servers who just.. couldn't endure it and quit.
I love c4 and for the first time since I did my class change quest to Warlock I am ACTUALLY having fun lol, Quicksilver on the other hand.. won't let me go to bed [kept me up 24hrs straight for their archer party T.T] <3 you Kittan
so before you go on about them being overpowered or wonder is it fair for them to gain such a boost think of it as compensation for the 3 chroncles of torture.
Well personal opinion, 2.4k pattk for a summon is still insane but as I said, if its needed ok. One thing I absolutely will not buy from any class is "compensation for past suckyness". I have played many many many mmo's and have played many many many sucky classes, "compensation for past suckyness"....no, every summoner on the server could hate me for saying this, but no class deserves that. Again, I never played a summoner, and probably won't play one and am glad they were beefed up, but again, to me just seems they were beefed a bit more then they should have, and im sorry Drekk, again, the "compensation for past suckyness" thing kinda just makes me tend to believe they were even more :(
Heard that so many times when I joined party rooms :p EPOCH "saved" me; they invited me to their parties without complaint, they even let me tag along without summon, just spamming BSS with my bow and using the cubics. Without them I would be still around 68 or so, because at that time I was getting bored to tears from always playing alone. Now I can reply those same people back with a "sorry you aren;t good enough for me", because I did not forget. :cool:
My max patk is around 2200 at most buffed, not 2.5k. The necro summon has 2.5k, but it has even less HP/P.def and they do not have UD2 for the pet like we do, nor do they have the 1.4k heals. Selfbuffed the pony tops out at around 3k patk at the next class change, with around 700-800 pdef (our new class skills are boosts to the stats of the pony). Skill enchanting the pony will add more levels too; the first one adds 2 levels for example. +10 adds another level. Not sure when it becomes lvl 80, prolly like +20 or so (+10 is 79).
Yesterday and the day before I fought Solange and Viconiadivir in open "purple pvp", both with an SE. I got killed twice, I killed them twice. It's not like we're "on top of the food chain". We became a worthy challenge, all that I ask(ed) for.
We still have weaknesses. One is fear. There's more, good luck. :)
Heard that so many times when I joined party rooms :p EPOCH "saved" me; they invited me to their parties without complaint, they even let me tag along without summon, just spamming BSS with my bow and using the cubics. Without them I would be still around 68 or so, because at that time I was getting bored to tears from always playing alone. Now I can reply those same people back with a "sorry you aren;t good enough for me", because I did not forget. :cool:
My max patk is around 2200 at most buffed, not 2.5k. The necro summon has 2.5k, but it has even less HP/P.def and they do not have UD2 for the pet like we do, nor do they have the 1.4k heals. Selfbuffed the pony tops out at around 3k patk at the next class change, with around 700-800 pdef (our new class skills are boosts to the stats of the pony). Skill enchanting the pony will add more levels too; the first one adds 2 levels for example. +10 adds another level. Not sure when it becomes lvl 80, prolly like +20 or so (+10 is 79).
Yesterday and the day before I fought Solange and Viconiadivir in open "purple pvp", both with an SE. I got killed twice, I killed them twice. It's not like we're "on top of the food chain". We became a worthy challenge, all that I ask(ed) for.
We still have weaknesses. One is fear. There's more, good luck. :)
*tears comes to eyes*
oh ehli i couldn't of said it better myself,
I have herd "sorry we are looking for a real DD " many times, and getting teased about it by other classes didn't help either lol I just sucked up and just soloed my way to 58-60 and Divine gave me that extra push i needed to make it over the grewsome 60 -63 hump.
and perhaps you misunderstood what i ment by "compensation" I didn't ask for my class to be on top of the PVP food chain, all I wanted was to be on par and given equal treatment as the other classes and players of L2 and so far I got that.
When I say compensation I just come to the conclusion that Ncsoft needed time to balance the class out for it come to the point that it is. Think about it, if they implemented any just one of the things that we have now then the class would be broken, there are elements that had to be worked.
Summoners Didn't always a "-30%" exp loss but it was implemented to destroy the super leveling curve of the prelude summoners because in Korea Elemental summoners(for some reason Light elves are loved more than dark or human) were the fastest leveled class ( I saw the stats chart) and thus the exp loses was implemented. It took awhile but a way for the -30% to exist AND still find a balance way for summoners to gain the exp they required to get up to higher lvls [party pets -5% and Duo Pets -10%] and we are STILL the most effiencent solo class, and if you all remember correctly Pet soul shot was going to be implemented earlier (pet weps said how much soul shots were consumed) but what ever reason it was removed.
I am not being compensated for my "suckyness" (is that even a real word?), I wasn't a crappy class to begin with, in c3 i could PVP just as good I could kill any tank class, any archer, any DD basically with bit of struggles but it could be done, I adapted to my class and just with what I had. Just now I can do it with more flare, and in a shorter time that people take notice. What I am being compensated for the fact that I stood with the class so long by being rewarded the highest and Most experience on the server of the class and POSSIBLY the first to be arcana lord & Warlock hero with little competition( don't expect to see 100 warlock's to appear out of the blue FOR atleast 6 months). Now nothing is set in stone its possible for farmers to start playing the class, and its possible for people to start rerolling but unless i put down the game now, I am ahead of the pack, same with Sciblade and Ehli the compensation my friend is in the patience ;)
One lvl below you deary. :) And lvling fast. >_>
And btw, kiss you both Ehli and Drek.
Sciblade is still top summoner, must be 75 by now. ^^ Ehli in second, Drek in third and myself in fourth ( >< bah! ) But personally I really don't care about that. ^^ I'm enjoying my summoner more now than ever before.
And yes sadly it makes me want to cry when someone who doesnt even play a summoner assumes we either suck at sieges -coughs- luke -coughs- or suck altogether. If ya dont play a summoner, don't comment about us like that. You don't see us saying " Tanks suck " now do ya? Nope. Because we don't play that class, we wouldn't know. Same goes for anyone that DOESNT play a summoner. You don't know, so dont bother saying anything at all.
And trust me, seeing myself or ehli or drek, eve Sci dieing AFEW times in a siege doesnt mean jack [censored]. For all you know, you could have missed EVERYTHING else inbetween that. I've taken on more then 5 dds BY MYSELF before, and they were Top B and Top A as well. And guess what? I lived. But you don't see more running my mouth about how so and so got nuked to hell. That's just one thing ya saw, big deal.
:)
Oh and Luke, just because I "love" you of so much, you'll be my next target at any siege just to show you how much summoners just suck, okay? ^_^
Indeed, I remember the feel when the penalty came out: you gonna solo forever, thank you for playing L2 :p
Or when they reduced the nuke/regen casting speed, the [censored] Servitor HP up to C2, the AI joke, the prelude crazy crystal costs, the silly full loss of cryst upon disconnexion, the abscence of 56+ Servitor (poor Lynxounette), the party/alliance buffs not being applied, your inability to see when your servitor will leave, your clannie's inablility to see the Uni's buffs and when to re-buff it, the absolute annoyance to beg for Uni buffs in Sieges because the alliance buff doesn't land on your weapon... the inability to quickly explain to your clannies why you cannot party with them or why they should participate to the crystal costs.. and again.. that **** solo grind!
Now, sure melee should get something, a true real boost.. something like a Physical/Magical mirror shield returning the dmg to the atker, along with the Hate being available in pvp would be a great start.
~~~EDIT ~~~
And sorry for speaking in your server.. but when one place "Summoner" in his title or posts, be aware that my "search for summoner words" option will spot ya right away! :p
Mawata owned me in a royal rumble brawl at the coliseum once, it was just her, me and Fightgirl left....fightgirl watched us and laughed as that ****ed pny beat the crap out of me.
And sorry for speaking in your server.. but when one place "Summoner" in his title or posts, be aware that my "search for summoner words" option will spot ya right away! :p
Yesterday and the day before I fought Solange and Viconiadivir in open "purple pvp", both with an SE. I got killed twice, I killed them twice. It's not like we're "on top of the food chain". We became a worthy challenge, all that I ask(ed) for.
LOL then why'd you jump down my throat? That's all I was saying!
I love the changes made in C4 for my class, and for the first time in a long time, I have begun using Soulless and bringing him back from retirement. Call me crazy though, but I still stick with the habit of soloing 10+ hours at a time without spamming SS. "Partying" and "SoulShots" are simply foreign concepts to me. :P
Cursed Man has base 80 crit (buffed 200). Buffed atk speed about 500. I love summoner-style. Especially in party.
(note: I "cant" heal my summon effectively, so i need keep agro me - i can heal myself with claw/cld. His p.def is really low. And i have no buffs for him. -> But all this disavantages disapper in DD party)
So if your DD party lf nuker (resist physical) + crowd controll, necro is good choice.
Note2: Check duo/trio pure summoner + necro + buffer, summoner + DD + buffer,...necro + dd + buffer,...
Note3: "Soloing" is simply foreign concept to me. There is possibility of choice now. And thats IT ! ;)
Mawata owned me in a royal rumble brawl at the coliseum once, it was just her, me and Fightgirl left....fightgirl watched us and laughed as that ****ed pny beat the crap out of me.
Ivy, lets do that again. :S You, me and FG ^^ gogo.
Everyone always forgets about me. I am level 63 and have been away for over 3 months now. No respect:(
There's quite a few others who are up there, such as Demia and Lelidrim (Spelling?) who are also in their high 60's. Either they prefer not to make themselves known to crowd or someone's out of the loop.
Everyone always forgets about me. I am level 63 and have been away for over 3 months now. No respect:(
There's quite a few others who are up there, such as Demia and Lelidrim (Spelling?) who are also in their high 60's. Either they prefer not to make themselves known to crowd or someone's out of the loop.
Aww I <3 Demia. Just was unsure of the lvl, hence why she wasn't mentioned. And because Morgase has been gone for abit....Ye anyways. Some are just more known than others?