Zerk Change, unneccasarry mage boost or good move?

General Discussion Started Last reply 40 posts
After testing zerk with the m.def reduction I have found that it is only 40 m.def (on a 900 m.def toon) different from the reduction that curse gloom gives on m.def.

This is totally ridiculous based on the fact that the skill was working perfectly before and now mages are now even more overpowered against the ever less played melee classes.

Is it just me or has this buff been totaly destroyed pointlessely thus giving mages more of an edge on other classes?

I don't buff ally Zerk with my OL on raids anymore unless the raid does not have AOE nukes and Zerk in PVP is a definate no no.
tip buff the RB w/ zerk... helps a lot.
The change to zerk is so lame - a melee class w/ zerk bites the dust even faster while a mage w/ zerk can kite the melee funny; When a SH is faster than a TH there is smth very weird.
Not that I necessarily agree, but I believe the idea was that Berserker Spirit is intended to make you trade defense for offense. You're intended to kill and die faster...the MDef reduction is just another aspect of that design.
Yeah. The changes to zerk, whether intentional or not, is a big boost to nukers. Not only is the mdef reduction present, but the pdef reduction has been reduced.
It's alot more then 40ish m def.

It kills almost as much M def as magic barrier adds on a 850ish m def character.
Just another addition that separates the already huge balance gap between nukers and melees.

Most of you havent seen anything yet. With all the buffs, including hot springs and arcane power, I have over 4k matk.

I can kill an entire melee party by myself. rofl, great job nc
I see zerk griefing coming into style....

I see zerk griefing coming into style....



It's been a debuf for heavy armor classes since prelude.


It's alot more then 40ish m def.

It kills almost as much M def as magic barrier adds on a 850ish m def character.



He said it reduces mdef by 40 less than gloom, ie, gloom reduces it by only 40 more.
Ah... I see it now. How did I make that mistake.... stupid me.
Its garbage, but its what Im used to from NCSoft. Little by little they push me out the door.
The new zerk sucks big time, it's only good for pve with mobs that dont cast that much. Go zerked to Valley of Saints and you're getting some serious damage on a already low mdef class like a destroyer. The **** monsters cast surrender to fire and all have fire nukes so it's really suicide getting zerk there >.<

Places with no caster mobs or mobs that cast really seldom are fine with zerk still, but in PVP....BIG NO. I got low mdef already thanks to low mental stats and no passive boosters(go orcs go) and with zerk it's really low. Magic barrier, full BO set and Zerk and I got like 530 mdef. So, even with a huge amount of hp I WILL get nuked to kingdom come with that mdef. If zerk stays like it is, it will be a buff that most melees wont take in pvp anymore.

Give us our old zerk back, it was much better :(
Just stating the obvious; mages fight other mages sometimes too. They don't all gang up together on the fighters.
But yeah, the new zerk stinks. I want the C3 zerk back, regardless of the trail of thoughts that were behind the change.
ok, so zerk for pvp is big no-no now, right?

who cares?
You can still zerk all your enemies without going purple.. so, its a weaker gloom, that lasts 20 min? =/
>>Just stating the obvious; mages fight other mages sometimes too.
Mages do have passives and high mental stats.

Just stating the obvious; mages fight other mages sometimes too. They don't all gang up together on the fighters.
But yeah, the new zerk stinks. I want the C3 zerk back, regardless of the trail of thoughts that were behind the change.




Very true, and if this keeps up that's about all there will be in PvP. /supersadface

Mages do have passives and high mental stats.


just stating the obvious, mages have low hp (aka they die just as fast or faster)
look at the bright side... Prophets have an offensive debuff no one else can give now!


Mages do have passives and high mental stats.


just stating the obvious, mages have low hp (aka they die just as fast or faster)



All nukers +con

All BDs SwS Daggers and Archers - con so trust me nukers are about equal to - con classes they arent low on hp as people think trust me lol.
except OL...



Mages do have passives and high mental stats.


just stating the obvious, mages have low hp (aka they die just as fast or faster)



All nukers +con

All BDs SwS Daggers and Archers - con so trust me nukers are about equal to - con classes they arent low on hp as people think trust me lol.



Fighter classes REALLY got to stop going nuts on the -CON, its a BAD idea
Bishops have zerk, too, right?

They really need to make it so we can click off 'buffs' that we don't want.

except OL...



I can see OLs infiltrating alliances to zerk them during mass pvp :p
Whilst struggling fighting a raid boss I ally zerked our ranged attackers to make it die faster (I didn't do zerk before hand incase it had magical attacks). One of the SE's in the alliance got really ****** after the raid and left the raid force complaining that him on puropse. He finds it extremely offensive to get zerk and will leave parties/ log out if he does so as he believes it means he will die. :confused:

I don't think he realises that OL gives magic barrier 3 too, so his m.def is still a little higher than before the OL came anyway. :D
lol, that's pretty funny. I still gladly take zerk, as long as I don't expect to get zerged by a pack of wild nukers :p
++ casting speed ^__^
I don't buff it anymore, unless it's necessary like in the raid situation and so on.

Glad I'm used to the range of the ally buffs, or I'd have some upset tanks too. ;)




Mages do have passives and high mental stats.


just stating the obvious, mages have low hp (aka they die just as fast or faster)



All nukers +con

All BDs SwS Daggers and Archers - con so trust me nukers are about equal to - con classes they arent low on hp as people think trust me lol.



Fighter classes REALLY got to stop going nuts on the -CON, its a BAD idea



So what you suggest fighter classes - if not con? lol
Mages may have low con, but they get boost HP passives. That was supposed to balance them out, and not make 'em as squishy as they were. However, that failed miserably when they added tatoos. Now most nukers can have about much or more HP and CP as melee classes. Yay!
The loss in mdef is way too extrme. It should reduce it 10-20 points, not the huge amount it is now.

Nukers are already overpowered and they have to add this? Is NC stupid?

Fighter classes REALLY got to stop going nuts on the -CON, its a BAD idea

Too deep for this crowd, I'm afraid.
/rerollnuker
Taraza's con complaint is really a moot point.

Offense > Defense

That's how the game is designed. The loss of HP from lowering con and the boost to either p.attk or attack speed/critical rate doesn't really matter either way. The melee will still die either way. If they raise their con they only postpone their own demise.

So... yes, maybe lowering con isn't a great plan but the end results are going to be the same either way so it doesn't really matter what the melee does to their stats.


But wait wait... if a melee convincese an SWS, BD, WC and an SE to follow them around to fight 1 mage... then maybe the melee might win. Oh.. and if the melee has +4 con... as long as someone doesn't cast berzerk on them to cripple their already low m.def they might survive.

The changes to berzerk favor mages and make it more of a debuff then a buff for most melee. There's no point in debating really... this is just the subtle way for developers to phase out the melee classes. I'm sure by C7 they'll just be announcing that melee classes were a bug and that they've been removed entirely.
in c4 the only useful time to use zerk on any player is when you are fishing in town :p

zerk = party death in c4 ... dont use it ever ... i dont care what you are doing - pvp, pve, or raid or whatever!
I still use zerk hunting in areas with heavy amounts of nuker monsters. You spend more mp on heals but you also gain exp faster as a melee class. Pvp however......no thanks on the zerk.


... this is just the subtle way for developers to phase out the melee classes. I'm sure by C7 they'll just be announcing that melee classes were a bug and that they've been removed entirely.



They've pretty much already phased out the melee classes here on kain. Yeah people do still play melees but the second pvp happens, it's "hold on let me get on my ______ (nuker, archer, support class)"
I really hate the zerk nerf and think it is one of the most stupid patches I've seen, but I would not say it equals party death in C4. Yes it is very close to the effect of curse gloom and yes it doesn't add that uch for it's downsides now. BUt at the same time it still helps people kill faster, which is the whole point in the game, especially if you need to kill a raidboss before people run out of mana and start dying.

We tried zerk with some mage mobs the other day, song of warding and m.barrier only first. The mobs nuked for about 110 on average (this is average across a party of player with totally different m.defs). After adding zerk in the mobs now did around 170 dmg to us, not too much of a difference in PVE, but gets noticable without warding ad with harder mobs.

PVP zerk is totally useless and UBERpowers mages, now they can run faster when they nuke you and it has no effect on them whatsoever as melee / physical classes will not be using magic attacks against them.

Mages may have low con, but they get boost HP passives. That was supposed to balance them out, and not make 'em as squishy as they were. However, that failed miserably when they added tatoos. Now most nukers can have about much or more HP and CP as melee classes. Yay!



I don't know if this was the thread, I said this in earlier... But a SH with +4 CON has less HP than an SE without CON tattoos. I realise Dark Elves are the squishiest of the nukers, but when they can't get more HP than a healer with CON tats, they truely are squishy no matter what you do (and don't forget about p.def). You just have to get close to them somehow :p
The amount of mdef loss is way too high for the amount of mdef character have. This change wasnt needed, nukers were already way overpowered.
the idea behind -con is that it = more DPS= more hp from VR (yes most the time u have it) or mob dies faster = less dmg to urself. so u can PvE better with - con. Go + con on a BD or SwS and u will be forever whacking the mob til it dies. True u can PvP better.. but why not get - con, lvl faster and have same hp as +con?

now mages have -men. It lowers their max mp and mp regen(mp regen loss is pretty insignificant). This way they hit harder= more kills, cast faster = less deaths in PvE. And guess what the same setup works for PvP.

fighters are not allowed to touch men
healers are not allowed to touch int
guess whats left??...
follow the pattern and nukers should not be able to touch wit.

On zerk.. I liked it better before but it should lower m def. Don't forget hex+shoot from pr = dead, or hex + whack from any DE= death.
Wisdom.. the resist sleep skill at 76 should really be given at lvl 65 or so

the idea behind -con is that it = more DPS= more hp from VR (yes most the time u have it) or mob dies faster = less dmg to urself. so u can PvE better with - con. Go + con on a BD or SwS and u will be forever whacking the mob til it dies. True u can PvP better.. but why not get - con, lvl faster and have same hp as +con?

now mages have -men. It lowers their max mp and mp regen(mp regen loss is pretty insignificant). This way they hit harder= more kills, cast faster = less deaths in PvE. And guess what the same setup works for PvP.

fighters are not allowed to touch men
healers are not allowed to touch int
guess whats left??...
follow the pattern and nukers should not be able to touch wit.

On zerk.. I liked it better before but it should lower m def. Don't forget hex+shoot from pr = dead, or hex + whack from any DE= death.
Wisdom.. the resist sleep skill at 76 should really be given at lvl 65 or so



Most of the sets that increase cast speed seem to be intended for healers because when they have a counterpoint its always obviously designed for a nuker.

It just turns out that increasing cast speed is a more potent modifier to DPS then any modifications to intelligence or M.attk.

This game basically suffers from a lack of foresight and confused design goals. A pvp game with unbalanced classes that are pulled almost directly from the PVE Class design book. Supposedly all about PVP but its focused almost entirely on the grind and imposes hefty penalties for pvp which makes it less likely to occur (thus shifting the focus of the game).

To the topic at hand...

I think that this became a more potent debuff then a buff was unintended by the design team. If they had intended for that to happen then they obviously would have just made it a debuff. They probably just don't realize the impact of their decision.

It just turns out that increasing cast speed is a more potent modifier to DPS then any modifications to intelligence or M.attk.



I know. In fact before tattos becuase common most nukers were fairly balanced. but with the addition of tats/SA crappy for melee and uber for nukers they became unbalnced. Remove their ability to change their wit and they will become what they were supposed to be.. A high damage support DD, not a 1 man recking crew killing all in their path


It just turns out that increasing cast speed is a more potent modifier to DPS then any modifications to intelligence or M.attk.



I know. In fact before tattos becuase common most nukers were fairly balanced. but with the addition of tats/SA crappy for melee and uber for nukers they became unbalnced. Remove their ability to change their wit and they will become what they were supposed to be.. A high damage support DD, not a 1 man recking crew killing all in their path



The cast speed robes all seem to have been designed with healers in mind. This is alot like how heavy armor is designed for DD's or Tanks typically. The cast speed robes were oriented towards healers and the m.attk/int boost robes were designed for nukers. The problem is that cast speed benefits both classes (and benefits nukers even more then healers).

It was just lack of foresight on the part of the design team.