Well you can really tell none of the developers play dwarfs, another chronical another dwarf nerfing. Not only do we continue to suck in groups, but now we cant even solo since they changed the way aggro works with big boom. AND now that it costs 3 d-crystals a pop AND!! 99 pet Bsps per go (a whopping 13k adena) no one will ever be using him again.
So in conclusion, C4 has removed a skill away from dwarfs, and its not like they have many in the first place. Thanks L2 peeps.
i already wrote this post :P
yeah i have a new boom and didnt even get it (not that i could im short 6 mil+ sp for skills)
note the 2 new ss that we cant craft
note the increase in cost on all our summons (when we already spend more than any other class)
note the common craft that all classes can use
note the new molds that only blacksmiths can craft
note the decrease in all our summons stats (when they already die/sleep/para/poison easier than any real player that lvl)
note the large increase in inventory/wh/sell/buy slots that is a smaller % for us
note that shops now sell silver arrows
note that we have to grind for days/spend millions for something we have needed since c2 CRAFT SLOTS
lol lots of useless comments on the so called dwarf neft..
with big boom the dwarf could get xp faster then any other, this was not intended and now fixed. you arent a true summoner, a super soloer, or a warrior of any kind, you are a creator of things.
dont act like you make money making silver arrows. and the % increase of your slots... come on you already have more, and now you still have more, whats the problem really ?
EXACTLY crafting is such a small part of the game, and killing is the other 99%. I have never felt so dishearten when I logged in last night for the first time, brought some pet sps and went to AB and died as the mob group aggroed me.
I really just dont know how to play a dwarf anymore, I cant really kill in seiges, I cant kill in pvp, I cant solo in pve. I can group and kill, but let’s face it I am dead weight to the group. Ok I can raise a siege golem, that’s 10mintues of game play once ever two weeks!! I can craft, yeah I do love clicking the button every 30seconds for 5 hours to make ss!!
SO L2 people, what exactly is a dwarf meant to be doing in L2 C4 apart from crafting and leeching exp from clan members. It’s stupid to be honest. If they gave us better Pdef then our high health would be good, but since it aint that great mobs and players can eat through our 8k hp in no time. And with no fighting skills except for stun we have nothing to dish back.
I have been a dwarf since Open Beta and I have NEVER complained about being a dwarf, I have always loved it, but now I am kind of getting sick of everyone getting things better and we just being left behind. Who would want to be a dwarf!!!
Im glad they fixed that if you were any where near the mobs after the big boom went off they all agroed the person walking by and also dwarf take way to long to kill mobs that way. Atleast with farmers they took all mobs then boom they killed em and they respawned, unlike dwarfs who take big groups of mobs then spend the next few min re summoning over and over again creating slow respawn rate .
with big boom the dwarf could get xp faster then any other, this was not intended and now fixed. you arent a true summoner, a super soloer, or a warrior of any kind, you are a creator of things.
if you dont have a high lvl ws than
at 58 a ws gets the best xp out of any solo class (yes after only 57 lvls we get the best solo xp.. not group though)
at 60 any archer or nuker gets more xp per hour than we did
at 62 with an se in party we get prolly the 3rd best party xp (not includeing uber toi groups)
what sort of comment is that?
i already stated that crafting is like 1% of dwarf time and most of that is spent making ss so we can actually afford to solo
Im glad they fixed that if you were any where near the mobs after the big boom went off they all agroed the person walking by and also dwarf take way to long to kill mobs that way. Atleast with farmers they took all mobs then boom they killed em and they respawned, unlike dwarfs who take big groups of mobs then spend the next few min re summoning over and over again creating slow respawn rate .
yes the farmers run all over abg take every single mob, take them for a 5 minuet walk sleep them, then kill them in 1 hit
yet ppl still complain when a ws takes 3 groups?
only nerf i agree on is boom costing more
they fixed that nicely it now cost like 50k to kill enough groups to drop 30k
GG
btw i outlvled the effectiveness of big boom so im just defending the poor ws's who dont have the luxuary of knowing what it was like
Well I am 65 and big boom was great. Sadly now I am going to have to wait for groups. Its just sad that dwarfs have nothing to contribute in game outside of towns. We just dont have anything thats worth while in groups.
something like AOE stun on lance, or some magic hammer strike to do some damage. End of the day Ive tried the max CON direction and basically maxed out my HP and this makes a dwarf worthless as he does no damage so your just delaying the inevitable death but because they are bad defenders it does not last that long. I am not maxed out dex and str with a polearm for aoeing but I cannot really do that much damage even like this.
So people and developers please do educated us on what exactly dwarfs are meant to do in the other 99% of the game where people are in pvp/pve
Find a group of phantom rangers, and carry their arrows :p
Some day you wake up and there will be no SS coz all Dwarves reroll, also no spoil = no materials. And those archers will be running in C grade equipment up to 78lev. (without SS of course).
GG
Hell yeah SS on;y for dwarves = insane ieda but i like it ]:>
i already wrote this post :P
yeah i have a new boom and didnt even get it (not that i could im short 6 mil+ sp for skills)
note the 2 new ss that we cant craft
note the increase in cost on all our summons (when we already spend more than any other class)
note the common craft that all classes can use
note the new molds that only blacksmiths can craft
note the decrease in all our summons stats (when they already die/sleep/para/poison easier than any real player that lvl)
note the large increase in inventory/wh/sell/buy slots that is a smaller % for us
note that shops now sell silver arrows
note that we have to grind for days/spend millions for something we have needed since c2 CRAFT SLOTS
I agree that most of your points are valid but I do not feel too sorry for you as a dedicated SE-player. Some classes are not ment to solo in the vision of the NCsoft developers and you apparently have become 1 of them.
Sorry for your lose of possibilities and welcome to my world.
Find a group of phantom rangers, and carry their arrows :p
Some day you wake up and there will be no SS coz all Dwarves reroll, also no spoil = no materials. And those archers will be running in C grade equipment up to 78lev. (without SS of course).
GG
Hell yeah SS on;y for dwarves = insane ieda but i like it ]:>
Lol,
To make money you do not use SS it only makes it faster to grind. NCsoft does not want us imho to lvl at all as the drop-tables seem to suggest just that. Those that want to get stuff will make WS/BH at some point when no-one else plays them even tho it may be for the reason to get stuff less exspensive (I have a WS and BH just for the mats/builts to support my main SE). Don't even get me started on the manor system.....
I think it is the vision of the people of NCsoft that a person needs to make all toons to support oneself as a way to make us grind thus having us play longer in years to get to apoint to have "fun". From a business point of view a sound 1 as it would mean a steady way to keep the cash coming. Business is business. You need to accept it I guess.
Some day you wake up and there will be no SS coz all Dwarves reroll, also no spoil = no materials. And those archers will be running in C grade equipment up to 78lev. (without SS of course).
GG
Hell yeah SS on;y for dwarves = insane ieda but i like it ]:>
Lol,
To make money you do not use SS it only makes it faster to grind. NCsoft does not want us imho to lvl at all as the drop-tables seem to suggest just that. Those that want to get stuff will make WS/BH at some point when no-one else plays them even tho it may be for the reason to get stuff less exspensive (I have a WS and BH just for the mats/builts to support my main SE). Don't even get me started on the manor system.....
I think it is the vision of the people of NCsoft that a person needs to make all toons to support oneself as a way to make us grind thus having us play longer in years to get to apoint to have "fun". From a business point of view a sound 1 as it would mean a steady way to keep the cash coming. Business is business. You need to accept it I guess.
**** what a pile of bulls***
1) I didn't said that dwarves uses SS to make money LOL
2) But all classes use it to level faster - right?
3) If noone will care about dwarves then they disaperd
4) no dwarves = no SS, no equipment
Some day you wake up and there will be no SS coz all Dwarves reroll, also no spoil = no materials. And those archers will be running in C grade equipment up to 78lev. (without SS of course).
GG
Hell yeah SS on;y for dwarves = insane ieda but i like it ]:>
Lol,
To make money you do not use SS it only makes it faster to grind. NCsoft does not want us imho to lvl at all as the drop-tables seem to suggest just that. Those that want to get stuff will make WS/BH at some point when no-one else plays them even tho it may be for the reason to get stuff less exspensive (I have a WS and BH just for the mats/builts to support my main SE). Don't even get me started on the manor system.....
I think it is the vision of the people of NCsoft that a person needs to make all toons to support oneself as a way to make us grind thus having us play longer in years to get to apoint to have "fun". From a business point of view a sound 1 as it would mean a steady way to keep the cash coming. Business is business. You need to accept it I guess.
**** what a pile of bulls***
1) I didn't said that dwarves uses SS to make money LOL
2) But all classes use it to level faster - right?
3) If noone will care about dwarves then they disaperd
4) no dwarves = no SS, no equipment
I think we have a differance of opinion nothing more. Whether this is bull... or not I will not get into.
Like I wrote before I have both the WS/BH myself so they will not disappear. The part of a business view is how I look at this game when I play it.
A way to get a business is by creating a product that looks good to the aimed clients. Certain clients look for certain features. One of those features could be a way of creating items that can be built from drops within a game like within Lineage. The only thing a business has to make sure of is that the client is willing to work for it within a exspected time of that said client. You make it too hard you loose the client, you make it too easy and the client loses interrest. It's a fine line but that's what it is.
P.S. I never said/wrote that to make cash ingame a dwarf needs to make SS but it is a way to do it another is crafting. Hunting is a possibilty too as would be a quest. All valid ways to make a "living" but remember that " fine line" I wrote about. If you read between the lines you know how I think about this game's "liveablilty" but that's my view.
I agree that most of your points are valid but I do not feel too sorry for you as a dedicated SE-player. Some classes are not ment to solo in the vision of the NCsoft developers and you apparently have become 1 of them.
Sorry for your lose of possibilities and welcome to my world.
ever spend more than 5 minuets looking for a group?
how bout 5 weeks?
yes some classes are not designed to solo such as yourself, bd's and sws
amazing though that once you enter a group it instantly gets better, ws's on the other hand...
Wah much ? When is the last time anyone other than a WS made 300k+ from someone clicking on them once? I do recall the decription of a dwarf in prelude,80% money 20% exp or something like that.
Find a clan that sieges or is active. Get groups thru them, plenty of WS in our old ally that took tank roles when the main tanks werent on.
This outlook isn't for everyone but it may have some relevance here.
I have a BH, her objective is to make money thru spoiling. Her objective is NOT to level up quickly. Levelling up quickly would inhibit the money making.
She hunts greens to maximize the spoils per level. She keeps her buffalo out both for the heals and for the 10% less experience. She avoids whites and above because they give too much experience. She hunts solo all the time to keep all her spoils and to avoid fast levelling.
Is this different from how most play? Sure it is. Is being different bad? Only in the minds of conformists. Is levelling up a toon to a high level quickly important? Only to conformists and type-A personalities.
That'd be the clicks for full items in sellshops, or are you implying that only dwarves can sell items for 300k+ ? ;)
I rarely pay more than 1a for crafting, and that goes for all the others who got clanned/allied/friendly WS out there so they're not making that much with their private craft shops.
BH is taken into groups cos it has spoil -atm spoil causes clients to crash so they're not welcome to most partys.
WS is taken into groups only if the clan/ally is dedicated in lvling their smiths, otherwise it's taken only if no better options are available. Why take a WS when you can take a Gladi, or a dagger? Or perhaps a nuker. 30 other classes to choose from before taking a WS since they aint that great at dmg dealing and with good VR and group the big HP is not a needed feature either. Only exception would be pole parties where dwarves, Destroyers and Warlords are better than others.
Yeah bigest C4 nerf in history is that the BH class can now not use there class unique skill SWEEP.... so yeah thats defetively a massive nerf... and NCSofti s not doing anything about it at all.
with big boom the dwarf could get xp faster then any other, this was not intended and now fixed.
Wrong. Booming was a tedious business and was the ONLY way a dwarf could solo with any level of efficiency. The xp was good but nowhere near what nukers/archers could acheive solo and much lowe than people could get in well organized groups.
you arent a true summoner, a super soloer, or a warrior of any kind, you are a creator of things.
Too bad that the Blacksmith of Mamnon removed all sources of income from lower level warsmith and crafts shops have decimated their income.
To the original poster: There is a way a WS can solo now, it's jus expensive. Grab pet soul shots get someone to buff you and your golem and go out hunting. Killing rate is fast, if your pet is buffed with VR he will live a lot longer and will do serious damage with SS.
I agree with the whole SS thing, use it? and you should make a net loss of money, not using it? you should make a net gain. Pets, you should never be losing money, unless you using pet ss.
now back to the dwarf question, yeah I agree with the point of view before, NC has a vision for the game and that some classes are strong party players, they must have a party to exp and that party will have a range of classes supporting each other. This is fine and I actually love that. BH are a great part of this for spoils, but now lets look at a Warsmith. What can/does he actually contribute. Damage, no not really even with ss he will do much less than all similar classes (meelee). Tank, no not really cant hate and pdef is not good enough. AOE, no not really.
Ok so hes not a tank, not a damage dealer, hes not even a hybrid between the two. If he was given a much higher stun rate or an AOE stun skill or something like polearm leg sweep thats knocks all mobs down for 2 seconds, then he would be really useful, a melee mob control class. But as it stands hes just a character that has to leech of parties until he can sub-class. Hes not fun to play day-to-day to exp, and this is something NCsoft must come to realise! (and its not just me, as I still love the dwarf as I have been him and only him since day one in open beta)
But what really gets to me is that we have this wonderful pet big boom, which now will NEVER be used, why would you. In sieges he get taken down in one hit, in pve he costs way to much (15k a pop with ss) even after my previous statement
eeh? waaa waaaa waaa i know beign a dwarf sucks but think about your skills theres a plenty you can do if you just think about it be origoinal or wate for some ****** to post it here
I always found the big boom to be a slow and tedious way to level my WS. It use to work very well for leveling an alt to forty. I leveled a bishop, SE, and prophet, just before C4. Since C4, my tests indicate that the boom no longer has a large enough kill radius, as most of the explosive power is closer to the boom. So you can still kill the agroed mini-boss mobs, but the minions may not take much damage.
I need to do more tests, but I suspect there is no point to the big boom anymore. If you use your boom on a group of mobs they all agro, so the WS better be able to take them out, or run very fast.
I have a BH, her objective is to make money thru spoiling. Her objective is NOT to level up quickly. Levelling up quickly would inhibit the money making.
<chuckles> I think it depends on BH or WS. BH need to lvl slow to get more spoils per lvl, thus making more money.
WS on the other hand need to (try and) lvl fast because their income is from making things. To make more items that sell well (like A and B grade) you need higher lvls in craft and the only way to get them is more grinding.
An entire hunting area??? As far as I know you neverp ulled more then 2-3 groups with the big boom, clearly not even 5% of the area up there. It where the other groups who hugged the entire area, not the big boom leveling.
I see people mentioning Big Boom, and mentioning Pole arms...but never in conjunction...why not??
Couldn't a WS with a pole run in and start swinging on a larger group of mobs, with a bsps/ss loaded Boom going off in conjunction, to drop large amounts of mobs VERY quickly? Add an SE for VR on the WS and empower/might on the Boom, and it would be awesome! (I think)
This may be out of place, but it breaks my heart to see lonely dwarves, as I also have a high level bounty hunter who often wanders forests alone, searching for an se...
I started a fairly new clan recently. My main char is a high 6x TK and I excel at AoE pulling and am ALWAYS LOOKING FOR WARSMITHS / other pole dd's to come DD in my groups. If you have a polearm and are a dwarf of any sort above lvl 55-60 you are more than welcome in my group and I would also consider inviting you to my clan if you are a) cool and b) good with de pole. I don't care if you craft, spoil, play dollhouse or whatever, as long as you kill stuff with your pole you are more than welcome. This is on Bartz server, pm me on these boards if you are interested.
Find a group of phantom rangers, and carry their arrows :p
Some day you wake up and there will be no SS coz all Dwarves reroll, also no spoil = no materials. And those archers will be running in C grade equipment up to 78lev. (without SS of course).
GG
Hell yeah SS on;y for dwarves = insane ieda but i like it ]:>
If that ever happends NC will just put all shots in stores.
you must really suck at soloing if you cant take out mobs with a normal weapon.
your stun is one of the best, you get pole mastery for 100% area and arent nerfed after 40.
pole yourself to 78 if must, but must you honestly put all dwarves under the same umbrella? jeez, as a BH u get many many mats per spoil, and are one of the biggest moneymakers in the game yet.
if u dont like being a dwarf reroll now save us all some hassle.
you must really suck at soloing if you cant take out mobs with a normal weapon.
your stun is one of the best, you get pole mastery for 100% area and arent nerfed after 40.
pole yourself to 78 if must, but must you honestly put all dwarves under the same umbrella? jeez, as a BH u get many many mats per spoil, and are one of the biggest moneymakers in the game yet.
if u dont like being a dwarf reroll now save us all some hassle.
this isnt about money making .. but killing mobs
I got a lvl 61 BH .. i can hunt green mobs .. and its **** hard.
Dont forget if you use stun, you have 1 less spoil to do.
Mostly its hard to get a party somewhere bcuz " you do only 200 dmg to a mob" ( w/o ss )
erm .. 200 dmg on green mobs isnt that much u know .. killing X amount of mobs and i can go sit in a corner to regen 7k hp :/ .. i can tell you .. thats a long time ....
you must really suck at soloing if you cant take out mobs with a normal weapon.
your stun is one of the best, you get pole mastery for 100% area and arent nerfed after 40.
pole yourself to 78 if must, but must you honestly put all dwarves under the same umbrella? jeez, as a BH u get many many mats per spoil, and are one of the biggest moneymakers in the game yet.
if u dont like being a dwarf reroll now save us all some hassle.
Are we playing the same game? Sure you can solo with a dwarf, but killing 4-5 mobs then sitting for 10 minutes isn't exactly efficient. "Your stun is one of the best"? Dwarves have the worst stun in the game. As far as getting many many mats per spoil...Again, are we playing the same game? You can get far more mats from the manor system. BH isn't even that good at making money anymore. An archer or nuker soloing makes more adena than a bh.
It's obvious from your comments that you have never played a high lvl dwarf. Do us all a favor. Play a dwarf to 65+ and come back and let me know how you feel about it.
Yes, they are horrible moneymakers. Getting a couple A grade blades/staves in less than an hour is absolutely terrible.
Spoil + C4 areas!
ever spend more than 5 minuets looking for a group?
how bout 5 weeks?
You're kidding right? How long do you log in, half hour at a time? If you have to spend longer than 2-3 hours getting a group you should really start looking at other clans.
For warsmiths I have to agree that NC does need to look over their plans for the class. Maybe add some new content to make them have a place in groups even if that place is not a source of damage.
I've solo'd my way to 56. Some groups here and there, never even got high enough to use Big Boom (you get it at 58).
Having a ton of HP is great.... I feel like my SPS when she runs out of mana and sits for days regening. Regening HP is almost as painful as regening MP. 2 box you say. I don't have the patience to do that, not do I want to have to keep an eye on a boxed healer.
Get a clan you say. I have 1. It's my clan with me in it. I have no use for clan politics nor any of that crap. I can hunt when I want, where I want. I play when I want, how I want and no one is after me to give them something, make them something, etc... I work all day, and have a family and house to run. I have about 4 hours a night to play. I'm sorry if that's not hardcore enough for some of you but that's how life works.
Common craft! Wonderful. Give EVERYONE the 1 thing WS' do. Yes, it's only some things but with quite a few Craft Shops charging 1a to craft, it doesn't even make it worthwhile for me to set it up. I'll do it for friends and such but I'm not getting rich off 1a crafts now and then. I make my money off SS and BSPS.
Craft high grade items. Sure! With the 50 slots I have that just about covers all basic mats, all shots and leaves a few slots for armors, weapons, and jewelry. Solution.. fishing!! Sorry, I don't have the time to fish for more slots.
Let's talk fighting skills in PVE. Ok, stun (sometimes), whirlwind (sometimes), wild sweep (sometimes). I'm not saying these have to land all the time but not too many dwarves are running around with pole arms.
PVP skills.... Stun - sometimes.
I'm not a tank, not a damage dealer, I'm a money maker. To make more money I have to craft high grade items. To do that I have to lvl.
I am curious to see where NC is going with dwarves but right now I really don't have all that much to offer except SS and BSPS. And clicking create for hours isn't fun.
I know how to play my class. I was excited to get back on Live and do things I enjoyed on PTS. As of now, I've got 2 sets of all 3 pets, a pair of Rabbit ears and a pair of Cat ears. My next goal is to grind to 60 so I can get the wedding dress for Short. At the rate I lvl I figure that'll be sometime around C6. Maybe then dwarves will get something beneficial.
this isnt about money making .. but killing mobs
I got a lvl 61 BH .. i can hunt green mobs .. and its **** hard.
Dont forget if you use stun, you have 1 less spoil to do.
Mostly its hard to get a party somewhere bcuz " you do only 200 dmg to a mob" ( w/o ss )
you MUST have known from very early that killing mobs would be difficult as a dwarf. you MUST have! you want to deal damage and make money quickly eh? you picked the wrong class, now lets stop whining.
Are we playing the same game? Sure you can solo with a dwarf, but killing 4-5 mobs then sitting for 10 minutes isn't exactly efficient. "Your stun is one of the best"? Dwarves have the worst stun in the game. As far as getting many many mats per spoil...Again, are we playing the same game? You can get far more mats from the manor system. BH isn't even that good at making money anymore. An archer or nuker soloing makes more adena than a bh.
It's obvious from your comments that you have never played a high lvl dwarf. Do us all a favor. Play a dwarf to 65+ and come back and let me know how you feel about it.
ok, dude, try your stun on anything.
ANYTHING! you can stun it. at 65 you can stun yellowmobs. believe me ive done it.
you say u cant stun in pvp? DUH!! you know or MUST have known when starting your dwarf that you couldnt pvp worth your father's toilet paper, and as such shouldnt be pvping anyway.
as to making many mats per spoil thats a debatable point, i when i spoil dont use spoil festival. never used it, never wasted sp on it, dont intend on it. spoil one mob, and already youve made more materials than any regular player who isnt subclassed as BH. who needs the manor system? that wont get you aoba blades or tallum pieces. hell, you get materials that will sell for the same money, but at what cost? if youve manored for 4000 varnish, just how many players buy that at a time? you can sell 8 aoba blades faster than 4000 varnishes.
bottom line, you need to love dwarves to play them. you cannot (stressed again) CANNOT have it both ways without subbing. you want to damage deal, fine, play another class. you want to make money and gain materials? play the manor system and try not to get burned. as a dwarf you get nothing to play with, but thats the whole challenge. if you cant take it to the next level after 65, hell after 52, try deleveling, and makeing all that money over again. its not that difficult.
if your main is a BH or WS, and youre complaining in this thread, i pity you.
See there lies the real problem.. folks who made a artisan/warsmith (like myself).. did it so they could craft things to make money. Only one problem.. You cant realy do it with the way things are set up now. I mean seriously.. artisans crafting D items? The bloody mats are too expensive.. and it costs more to craft than it does to buy the item in Giran at a 15% lord tax rate. That goes for C grade as well. And higher?.. again.. folks are payin so much for mats they dont want to pay any kind of "commission" to a filthy rich dwarf. Yep.. thats what most folks think dwarves are. And oh.. how wrong they are. Yes.. money can be made, but it takes lots of time and effort.. and all that time and effort to craft/make money is time away from xping. Since after all.. our warsmiths dont get xp for crafting. Now.. gosh.. theres an idea eh?
As for bringing real crafting back into the game. For that they would need to get rid of Manor system entirely and bring the mat drop rates back up. Thus BH would then be of some use again.. and also help bring the supply of mats up to bring there prices to a more managable level (supply and demand.. basic economics).. eg.. make it affordable to craft again.. you know, like back in C1. When you could find Elven Mith Gloves, Manti Boots, Brig Shields, etc.. more commonly. Back then arti's could make money crafting. Now you cant.. and the prices of those "craft only" items have gone through the roof.
Manor nerfed Warsmiths and Bounty Hunters hard.. just most folks using it were to worried about there "new way to make money" to understand all the implications of that. And now they end up paying the price anyway.. See less warsmiths to craft as they reroll, leave the game, get frustraited as there class keeps getting nerfed over the last 3 chronicles.. The only people manor helps are those looking for quick cash, and castle lords. Certianly not the crafters and spoilers.
erm .. 200 dmg on green mobs isnt that much u know .. killing X amount of mobs and i can go sit in a corner to regen 7k hp :/ .. i can tell you .. thats a long time ....
I'll tell you a little secret...if you promise not to tell anyone else...
A dwarf with his/her massive regen passive regens their 7k hp faster than I regen my 2k. ;)
They sit for shorter periods of time and for less often than other classes which can solo plenty. Just cuz it's not an oober-xp-aoe-big-boom-shindig doesn't mean it's crap.
Some of us have always had to solo the way you describe here. Deal with it, whiners.
Correct me if I am wrong... but aren't dwarves supposed to misteriously VANISH at the end of these chronicles ?
I was under the impression that Dwarves and orcs won't be around ofr L1 wich takes place after LII; and that we are playing the events that will lead to the destruction of most of aden... or am I sadly mistaken?
And of course dwarves are to be looked down upon; if you read the mythos you'll realize no one really trust them because they allied with everyone during the last conflict. Only makes sense that the very few dwarves that exist now (both in game and history wise) do so in ever shrinking numbers.
I don't think NCsoft designed the game so everyone would have to make a character of each race to advance; I think it was made so that if you as a clan leader are REALLY interested in having high level crafts; you'll cherish and accomodate a small group of somewhat trusty dwarves to your cause. Says me. I could be mistaken.
So perhaps your difficulty in finding groups comes from that mentallity of "we have to get to top level FAST, I cannot allow our group to not be 10000000% efficient while hunting" wich also has put melee in a bad place. I am feeling thepain too and I AM NOT PLAYING A DWARF. :eek:
"But the lore said <this and that part of the game> must suck" is a very poor excuse for utter imbalance. :)
Level 60-75 is really a hard time for dwarves... most people I know who were playing dorfs as their "main" rerolled or are considering a reroll in that level range. Mostly because there is hardly any rewarding and fun content for dwarves there. High level dwarves are good money makers. Other classes got similar abilities with C3/4, but dwarves still excell. Unfortunately earning slihtly more money is not such an attractive feature to compensate the lack of most other aspects of the game like: Ability to solo properly, ability to add to a group, ability to PvP.
Maybe we will see some love for dwarves with C5... but somehow I doubt it.
everyone who is a non dorf should reread my posts (a mod edited one)
big boom = less xp than pretty much any other class 90% of big boom time
scavs make rediculous quantities of adena = true. if only they had the ability to keep it all for themselves (most bh time will be spent in parties)
ws's make less money than any other class soloing = true.
private craft made crafting for profit nearly useless = true
private crafting earns all other classes more adena than ws's = true
farmers provide more A grade than ws's = true
a nuker doing raids richer than a ws = true
dwarfs come on these boards everyday explaining to noobs how they can make as much adena as us (see timecop post for perfect example)
now im not saying all you non-dorfs are as noob as timecop but if it's already established that all classes can make as much if not more adena than dwarfs (consider my 50k golem that uses 100a of ss per hit) then why do ppl still consider us overpowered?
all dwarf skills availiable to any other class - check
pretty much no other skills availiable to dwarfs - check
once again i remind you im past booming, where i solo (se slave) each mob prolly cost me 1800 to kill and it drops 2k+ adena
i can go non stop for 20 mins (golem despawns) i then solo for about 10 mins and rest for 5 mins
not too bad most would say
however this seems to be a c4 thing concerning the new areas
im pretty sure a ws 58-68 wont be able to pull that off (i know a bh cant)
EDIT: forgot to add im still wearing full b grade (have a low A pole in wh)
i earned my bw and aoba by useing manor and 3 weeks of 8 hour a day bss craft
1. Dwarves still have the best skills for money making, you just have to know how the market works. Alot of people play dwarves as an ordinary fighting class and craft too little. A playstyle of a WS is to earn alot of money, make good weapon & armor and THEN get few lvls and repeat. You have little skills but you can make it up with good equipment and buy alot of pots'n'scrolls.
2. Pole > Blunt for solo/party, Blunt > Pole for PVP. Don't expect to be good in solo/party with a blunt, don't expect to be good at PVP with pole.
3. I've seen alot of posts saying that poles ar good only for BH, but BH uses alot of mana for spoils whereas WS has all his mana for Whirlwind. Whirlwind also takes alot less mana than blunt's stun.
4. WS's make little money while soloing - thats true and thats why we use strategy from pt.1.
5. Because we are small and our skills are mostly passives, others think that we do very little damage. Thats a psychological issue.
care to list your lvl?
farmers raid weapons cheaper than i can craft them
quests that are required to get a grade recipies? guess what ws cant do them
once again i dont really care im close enough to sub a nuker that i can deal with it but big boom although not a huge xp earner is still better than soloing
you must really suck at soloing if you cant take out mobs with a normal weapon.
your stun is one of the best, you get pole mastery for 100% area and arent nerfed after 40.
pole yourself to 78 if must, but must you honestly put all dwarves under the same umbrella? jeez, as a BH u get many many mats per spoil, and are one of the biggest moneymakers in the game yet.
if u dont like being a dwarf reroll now save us all some hassle.
Are you on high?
1) BH moneymaker - that's a nice joke. BH can't solo mobs past 5x lev so we need to take party. If we have party (without spoil by turn noone get you in) you get so much spoil as everyone - literally almost nothing.
2) Stun - we have worst stun ever and everyone know about this (which is really stupid coz we have pretty high CON_. Also BH neve users stun/whirlwind while PvE. Why? Coz we don't have MP for spoil.
But the point is not with makeing money but in 90% of gamepley - which is grinding/exping. We can't do this effectivly. No one take to party WS or BH (without spoil) - until it's not your good friend.
And you know why? Because of ppl like you which don't treat us olny like moneymakers. So what do you think? Because we choosed a dwarf we can't play as normal people?
All ppl want spoil/craft but don't want dwarf in exp party. I love my dwarf even if he is so gimped. But don't expect that i will be watching when Nc nerf us even more or ppl kick us and threat like second-part ppl.
Okay I think thers something here most don't know, first of everyone can use a BH's or WS 'skills' and it's not hard to find thoes services for free at all, aka a BH is enought to just invite one to a party and viola you ge SPOILS for FREE, taking that away from the BH ofcorse.
WS is the very same, I bet your in a clan you have a clan WS, and yeah I bet you can easely craft things for 1a from him whatever you want..... And see now you got free crafting to.. aint it wonderfull ??? Not really for dwarves.
Sure I gota admitt it IS possible for an WS to sitt his *** and make money in Giran or something, but TRUST ME, it takes a LOT of time to do this, you usualy earn more hunting outside giran for XP and yeah the adena drops is usualy worth a LOT more then what you craft up under the same time, trust my words for it.
Oh and the one who say a BH can solo pass lv 50 should be shot, it's 100% impossible, Sure you can kill a few monsters but hten yeah you need to sit and regen for 5-10 min......... in the end very slow killing speed, maby 1% per hour at eg lv 55.... not worth it, barly much spoiled things either. Only way to really xp at this lv is to get into a group and voila don't have access to your spoils.
Bigest Nerfs:
C1: Share spoil BH
C2: Craft Shop, Manor system WS BH
C3: All A grade + quest ONLY... WTH???, BH
C4: AoE nerf, Most A grade still quest only..... and so on, + TYPO WHO MAKE BH USELESS, BH WS
Have dwarves ever got a single boost ever? No, they ben losing gameplay function after gameplay function Since C0, and havent got any boost at all, this is an PvP game ignoring that fact and saying some chars is not ment to PvP, yeah right, I say it agian, this is an PvP game.
Even facts is like did you ever read the description about the classes? Like BH supose to be the harder to beat one then WS... but no it's not the case any WS kill an BH with eease due it's golem... Its something wrong with the class description to.... I'm still waiting to be prommesed thoes things it says there.
Hold on I think I have an idea of what you're trying to say. Lemme see if I can clear this up a bit...
everyone who is a non dorf should reread my posts (a mod edited one)
big boom = less xp than pretty much any other class overpowered nuker AoE parties 90% of big boom time
scavs make rediculous quantities of adena = true. if only they had the ability to keep it all for themselves (most bh time will be spent in parties because they're lazy and wine too much )
ws's make less money than any other class soloing, as long as you don't count SK's, DA's, TK's, Paladins, Summoners, Healers (who solo worse than you do, like many other classes), SWS... = true.
private craft made crafting for profit and ripping people off nearly useless harder, because more people have access to the system...they do however still have to pay to access it, outside of charity from clanmates, which they'd be able to get even w/o crafting stores. = true
private crafting earns all other classes that take advantage of it more adena than ws's = true
farmers provide more A grade than ws's = true
I can't really argue here...how's anyone supposed to compete with a company that farms stuff 24/7?
a clan with nukers doing raids richer than a ws, and I'm unhappy because either I can't find a clan for one reason or another, or for some reason I want to, as one person, be able to out-moneymake an entire clan = true
dwarfs come on these boards everyday explaining to noobs how they can make as much adena as us (see timecop post for perfect example), but I still can't make it work for me.
now im not saying all you non-dorfs are as noob as timecop but if it's already established that all classes can make as much if not more adena than dwarfs (consider my 50k golem that uses 100a of ss per hit and is cheaper for me to run than your toon is. haha! I can duo with MYSELF and you can't!) then why do ppl still consider us overpowered?
all dwarf skills availiable to any other class, for a fee - check
pretty much no other skills availiable to dwarfs. And why not? I mean, I should get like dwarf skills, nuker skills, dagger skills, tank skill and maybe some uber-leet new skills that no one has! Right? I mean, granted I could have looked at the skill list and picked a class that had the ones I wanted...but I'd rather NCSoft just give those skills to dwarves so I can have EVERYTHING :D - check
once again i remind you im past booming, where i solo duo with my boxed se (se slave) each mob prolly cost me 1800 to kill and it drops 2k+ adena
i can go non stop for 20 mins (golem despawns) i then solo for about 10 mins and rest for 5 mins
not too bad most would say
however this seems to be a c4 thing concerning the new areas
im pretty sure a ws 58-68 any player with my attitude wont be able to pull that off (i know a bh cant)
EDIT: forgot to add im still wearing full b grade (have a low A pole in wh) I suck at using the money-making tools provided to me.
i earned my bw and aoba by useing manor and 3 weeks of 8 hour a day bss craft
ws's make less money than any other class soloing,
as long as you don't count SK's, DA's, TK's, Paladins, Summoners, Healers (who solo worse than you do, like many other classes), SWS... = true.
**** man stand on the ground pleaze.
Worst then WS/BH? We do almost zero dmg so we consume tons more SS than anyone to kill proper mob.
- All tank classes - have hight p.def + working shield mastery (plus cubics/dark panther) which allow them to hunt more effectivly then we are. My friend DA on 55lev doing better than I on 6x (you have drains, heals etc. dwarves don't have any skills! WS can stun and that's all).
- SWS have great songs so his time to get party = 1s. And still he is deadly with proper weapon (bow for example).
Summoners - you are talking about classes which can solo easier than any other in this game... so big LOL here
- Healers - yeh sure healers can't solo better then we are but they found party faster then SWS and dwarves not. BTW root + pole/bow can be deady... dwarf is deadly when he using FD olny...
Just because you CHOOSE to share spoils doesn't "remove" that skill from you. Sure everyone else gets a cut...but so do you. They're helping you spoil the mobs by killing them, why shouldn't they geta share. You wanna keep the whole thing? SOLO. And yes it's possible, you lazy frikking dwarf.
Just because NC created private craft shops doesn't mean you can't craft for profit. Some argue about in-clan 1a shops...but wouldn't those in clan dwarves be crafting for FREE for their friends w/o the shops? And when a non-dwarf character is out of things to sell, he's out of money-earning potential...a dwarf can just sit down with a full mp bar and keep a steady income going.
WS are NOT expensive or hard to solo compared to many other classes. Sure there's about a half dozen that are cheaper/easier to solo...but 6/31 is a lot less than ALL.
Think about your own arguements. If ANY class can make money...guess what, you're any class. If those classes make money due to access to WS/BH skills...guess what, you have 24/7 access for FREE. So, even if it's only marginal, you should definitely be able to make more money than any other class.
As for arguements about no pvp skills, or less damage than a dd...or less tanking than a tank, or you don't get hate...etc. You did understand that's what playing a dwarf meant, didn't you? I don't see many healers running around whacking things with their weapon and yelling, "OMG I do crappy damage!? !" Or a nuker running around going, "OMG, I can't tank, and I don't have hate! ?!?" ETC.
No the only pern which can't understand the whole thing is you.
We won't be DD or Tanks - but don't have any possibilty to kill mobs past 5x lev.
We are not talking about earning money but about exping.
To your knowledge - everyone can sit ot his fat *** and buy/sell stuff for profit.
90% of ppl in this game have clan/ally. In every serious clan is dwarf whcich craft for mates. So to be honest crafting shops are for this 10% whithout claWith every Chronicle we getting weaker - no boost since prelude. That mean something.
You wanna keep the whole thing? SOLO. And yes it's possible, you lazy frikking dwarf.
How far did you played a dwarf? In your's signature it says 2x dwarf. Trust me, at 2x and even at mid 40's (with a yaksa) (I never got above that lvl then couse I quit and reroled when i came back to Lineage) it's realy different.
By the way, why manor didnt worked out for you? Personaly I found my shamy perfect for it. She could solo NoS selfbuffed easily and almost nonstop on greens, and with those 4x mobs, they give hell lot of crops.
Just because you CHOOSE to share spoils
See, most of the cases we dont "CHOSE", in more then 90%it's the only way to get into groups. I only CHOSE to share MY spoils when i patry with clanies and friends, but my dwarfy mostly solo now with her dogy. By the way its a great way to duo with oncelf, feels like real duo, wolf even gets all the xp he gave dmg for.
in-clan 1a shops...but wouldn't those in clan dwarves be crafting for FREE for their friends w/o the shops
THis argument is used to show that nondwarfes have a good and safe (no need to wory that "filthy rich dwarwen cheater" will just run of with yours mats) acces to crafts which is realy close to dwarf's own.
a dwarf can just sit down with a full mp bar and keep a steady income going.
Now it's called comon craft ;)
Sure there's about a half dozen that are cheaper/easier to solo...but 6/31 is a lot less than ALL.
Most of those clases which are harder to solo (healers, SWS from your's examplex) find much easier time finding groups. Also any of those classes which are easier to solo find it easier to find groups.
classes make money due to access to WS/BH skills
Not only due to those skills, it's called manor, in C1 only BH's whre those who can make mats at a decent amounts, guess what now in C3/4 i find that manor gives MUCH MORE mats then spoils. And it is in favor to the clases with a higher kill rate (not dwarves) due to more mobs killled in amount of time=more crops harwested.
even if it's only marginal, you should definitely be able to make more money than any other class.
That's the problem it's only marginal, and becave so ower a cource of time. Our profits grew more and more marginal in a time when all other classesgot more and more skills to play with while we got (almost) none. Most dwarves here complain about this patern. Our moneymaking ability gets nerfed while everyones moneymaking and skills are increased.
As for arguements about no pvp skills, or less damage than a dd...or less tanking than a tank, or you don't get hate...etc.
I think it was way les complaings here in C1. And once again, look above for main reasong to these complains.
I excluded that thing couse it's a bug is supesed to be fixed, in other way "We are working on it" (c). On other hand the rest of things is working the way developers made it work.
Well if any Dwarves on gustin, WS or BH wanna aoe with me and are around lvl 65-73 send me a pm or in game email. WS are always welcome in my parties as long as they help sweep during and after the pulls.
I know I suck at pvp... that is why I dont' pvp.. but I sure love aoeing ^^ <3 and lvling my wolf.
Who also completly destroy abit of the dwarven class, specialy the later who completly terminate the D, C grade crafting needs....... So yeah for a dwarf to even start really earning cash on crafting sure you need 49+ for that.
---
Xanthus_: Plz spare me the 'solo' part and blablabla I told you about it befor at higher level's you wont be able to solo as an BH, maby somewhat doable as an WS but in the long run no you won't.
I want you to start up a craftshop and tell me how much cash you earned that way, Well I've tried it, usualy get 5-6k adena over night yes I'm not running an 1a craft shop but there always is osme I have the same price as most have, Occasialy you get maby 40-50k due an higher lv item crafted but....
If you got an lv +62 dwarf sure you can earn probobly sometiems then and then 200-600k or so per click on a grade, BUT remmeber some of thoes recs cost up to 20-30m so yeah you NEED QUITE A FEW CLICKS, to earn that money back from them, recipes is NOT free.
Trust me, you can earn more money doing other htings then run this craft shop
And I'm NOT gonna go into detail of what you can earn beter money at, as thats the curent only way for my dwarf to earn the cash, oh and I got both an BH and WS at 5x+ So I truly know what I talk about. Oh and this 'other'way to earn cash can be done with any class in the game. And we talk over 10m a week doing this, far more then any dwarf pull in on spoil and crafting. And doing this is beter spent time then bother crafting example, WAY BETER.
You wanna keep the whole thing? SOLO. And yes it's possible, you lazy frikking dwarf.
How far did you played a dwarf? In your's signature it says 2x dwarf. Trust me, at 2x and even at mid 40's (with a yaksa) (I never got above that lvl then couse I quit and reroled when i came back to Lineage) it's realy different.
By the way, why manor didnt worked out for you? Personaly I found my shamy perfect for it. She could solo NoS selfbuffed easily and almost nonstop on greens, and with those 4x mobs, they give hell lot of crops.
I'm not basing my comments on my dwarf. I know soloing is much easier pre 40s/50s, but I have seen MANY dwarves, both BH and WS solo. And I can tell you, they do it better than many other classes.
So, unless you want special consideration as a solo-specialist class...or you wanna be an overpowered nuker...you're pretty good solo already.
As for manor? Yes I make awesome money doing the manor when I choose to...more than anyone I know, actually. I consider myself a bit of an expert at exploiting the manor to make money...but you did know you can spoil AND seed mobs at the same time, right??
in-clan 1a shops...but wouldn't those in clan dwarves be crafting for FREE for their friends w/o the shops
THis argument is used to show that nondwarfes have a good and safe (no need to wory that "filthy rich dwarwen cheater" will just run of with yours mats) acces to crafts which is realy close to dwarf's own.
I don't think I get what you're getting at here...yes, non-dwarves can get access to craft things. They always could. You either crossed your fingers and paid some dwarf to craft for you and hope he didn't run off with your stuff...or you crafted in clan for free.
The only thing that's been removed here is the trust factor, because the dwarf can just plop down, craft-mode-style, and you don't have to trust him with anything.
So, harder to scam? - yes
Harder to make money on crafting? - no
a dwarf can just sit down with a full mp bar and keep a steady income going.
Now it's called comon craft ;)
Common craft blows goats compared to true dwarven crafting.
I mean seriously, who's gonna pay 300k+ for fish oil crafting? GSAP crafting? Maybe +4/-4 dye crafting? riiiight.
Sure there's about a half dozen that are cheaper/easier to solo...but 6/31 is a lot less than ALL.
Most of those clases which are harder to solo (healers, SWS from your's examplex) find much easier time finding groups. Also any of those classes which are easier to solo find it easier to find groups.
A BH finds a group 100000x quicker than I do as a dagger, AND they solo better...
Dwarves are not gimped in solo play, just give up the ghost.
Personally I think, if anything the BH's have a right to gripe about soloing, as the WS got a couple summons to help solo, and the BH got nothing to equal that.
classes make money due to access to WS/BH skills
Not only due to those skills, it's called manor, in C1 only BH's whre those who can make mats at a decent amounts, guess what now in C3/4 i find that manor gives MUCH MORE mats then spoils. And it is in favor to the clases with a higher kill rate (not dwarves) due to more mobs killled in amount of time=more crops harwested.
This wasn't my comment, it was a quote of someone else's comment. The manner in which you quoted me quoting it completely changes my meaning.
Xanthus_: Lets say it like this, it dosnt mater what class is the best or worst at soloing, there MAY be classes who are worser at soloing thers theos who's beter I'm not gonna go into who is what as thers no POINT in that.
But one thing is for sure, an dwarf can solo for nothing at higher lvs, sure thats maby so for other classses as well but thats beside the POINT, as it DOSNT mater what other classes can solo or not, get that.
THis argument is used to show that nondwarfes have a good and safe (no need to wory that "filthy rich dwarwen cheater" will just run of with yours mats) acces to crafts which is realy close to dwarf's own.
I don't think I get what you're getting at here...yes, non-dwarves can get access to craft things. They always could. You either crossed your fingers and paid some dwarf to craft for you and hope he didn't run off with your stuff...or you crafted in clan for free.
The only thing that's been removed here is the trust factor, because the dwarf can just plop down, craft-mode-style, and you don't have to trust him with anything.
So, harder to scam? - yes
Harder to make money on crafting? - no
I was trying to say that non dwarves have acess to craft realy colse to what WS have. Or do yo honestly think that WS craft 24/7? I not being a WS have no problem to craft anything i needed crafted (and i did crafted bunch of stuff). with a race track you can meet up with a dwarf from any town in Aden, so it's only you have to find time when 2 of you are awalable, and not 1. That's all.
...but you did know you can spoil AND seed mobs at the same time, right??
I know that, but do you know that my shamy made more many by just manoring in a amount of time my skavy manored and spoiled. Shamy didnt needed pots, exept for emergencies, was able to go wirtualy non stop cleaning big room in NoS, and there is such a great skill form lvl 30, called chill flame, then it droped 800-900hp in 1 cast, and while it was droping that hp the shamy was also beating on the mob adding more damage. And that almost doesnt need sps, landed around 90% with unenchanted mele wearpon.
Common craft blows goats compared to true dwarven crafting.
I mean seriously, who's gonna pay 300k+ for fish oil crafting? GSAP crafting? Maybe +4/-4 dye crafting? riiiight.
Compare crafts which are of a same kind, greater/premium oils are mats, last time i cheked mats were craftable in giran for 5-50 adena, and sometimes i saw those for less..
And now who will pay ~300k for ears/pins/eye patch craft, instead of spending lots of time and adena to find a second recipe to scribe in the book. And if full item recipes from comon craft can only be produced by clan halls those things will be expencive.
A BH finds a group 100000x quicker than I do as a dagger, AND they solo better...
never played a dagger, so can't say about it, but I heared they were realy guimped, and that's the reasonf for them not bneing able to find party easy.
Personally I think, if anything the BH's have a right to gripe about soloing, as the WS got a couple summons to help solo, and the BH got nothing to equal that.
Yeah, chill flame/frost flame/freezing flame rocks quite a bit. I have a shaman that's almost up to OL now.
And yes Shaman/OL can solo quite a lot better than many other classes.
However, I think if you add the mats from spoiling+manor, you'll still come out ahead with the BH...especially if you spend a little of your profit on healing pots or alac pots...not even the greater ones...just the normal cheapy ones.
As for grouping, I can't find a group with my dagger, not because they're gimp, they were only ever gimped in PvP dagger is still, and has always been, an awesome PvE DD.
However, I can't find groups, because archers/nukers PWN any melee DD. If a party has: Healer/Buffer, Dancer, Singer, Nuker, Nuker, Nuker, Archer, Archer, Archer...do you think they're gonna drop someone to let me in? Hell no. But that's an issue for another thread...well, threadS considering there's already several on the topic.
I'm not basing my comments on my dwarf. I know soloing is much easier pre 40s/50s, but I have seen MANY dwarves, both BH and WS solo. And I can tell you, they do it better than many other classes.
I tell you why. They are used to it. Really try a lvl 60 BH on white mobs. You do like 2 or with ss and haste pot maybe 4-5 but then sit for 5- 10 mins.
Solo means unbuffed only using potions because with vamp rage every meeleeclass can solo pretty good.
A BH finds a group 100000x quicker than I do as a dagger, AND they solo better...
Yes because a BH pays for every group with spoils else he wont find any or ppl leave party.
As for the solo part maybe a WS with summon solos better a BH dont know.
Dwarves are not gimped in solo play, just give up the ghost.
Yeah my BH got pimped since the last chronicels.
Some spoil festival and wrath skills and since c4 he can fish and spoil a grade stuff someone other in party gets.
Do they get any other new skills in c4 ? hmm i dont know my BH is only 6x and i dont see more skills so far.
Personally I think, if anything the BH's have a right to gripe about soloing, as the WS got a couple summons to help solo, and the BH got nothing to equal that.
Agree tread should be renamed another WS nerf.
Bounty hunters cant be nerfed all they got is already nerfed ( fake death and spoil ).
Edit: Forgot to say i dont whine about the solo part or the less skills. I still can solo it just takes more time and money and brings me nowhere exp like. The only thing to whine about is the long downtime.
I'm not basing my comments on my dwarf. I know soloing is much easier pre 40s/50s, but I have seen MANY dwarves, both BH and WS solo. And I can tell you, they do it better than many other classes.
I tell you why. They are used to it. Really try a lvl 60 BH on white mobs. You do like 2 or with ss and haste pot maybe 4-5 but then sit for 5- 10 mins.
Solo means unbuffed only using potions because with vamp rage every meeleeclass can solo pretty good.
I know solo = solo. If you have a boxed proph...it's still duo. Out of party friend? Still duo. Solo = solo.
If I were to hunt white mobs w/o pots on my Dagger I'd be sitting probably after every 4-5 mobs...but I also have to sit for 2x as long as a BH, since I have no regen passives...so it evens out. Trust me, I've tested this with dwarf friends.
With pots, it's better, but it's better for BH/WS, too.
You're a lot less gimped in solo play than you give yourself credit for. Stop looking at the **** nukers that can solo like 80 white/yellow/pink mobs with no downtime and only using 1 magic haste pot + shots...look at other melee classes.
Also, using spoil on split drops does NOT equal paying for a party. If you had to give them spoils you already had, then yes it's paying. But they're helping you get MORE spoils and thereby keeping a cut. If your party helps you kill 3x faster, aren't they worth a cut of your drops? or are you really that self-centered? :confused:
I tell you why. They are used to it. Really try a lvl 60 BH on white mobs. You do like 2 or with ss and haste pot maybe 4-5 but then sit for 5- 10 mins.
Solo means unbuffed only using potions because with vamp rage every meeleeclass can solo pretty good.
And now try to do that with your polearm weapon. Think Dwarves are bad solo at high lvls? Try playing an unbuffed Warlord. Green mobs kill me.
Some classes werent meant to solo, mine is one of them. When I cant find an SE to buff me or a healer to party with, I simply -dont hunt-. I use the time to fish/play the market/train bots.
Dwarves have all the same polearm skills as I do except for the AOE stun, which has the worst land rate of any in the game, so they are welcome in AoE parties. They also have blunt skills snd a decent stun attack, which allows for effective, if not superb, solo.
Please dont make the big boom nerf out to be more than it is, your class isnt dead. Common craft didnt detract anything from you, no1 could craft those items before anyway. WS still own the market on B, A, and now S grade crafts, and theres plenty of money to be had there.
Sure the grind will be a bit heavier from 58-61 (I think those are the only levels for which the Big Boom trains were cost/time effective) but thats life. Find some SE's and duo in the catacombs. You can get A grade parts as drops and spoils in the catacombs -and- in the new areas.
I dont wanna solo, i dont wanna contribute to parties, I dont want to pvp, I just want to collect other players earnings (ripping them off that means). I accept that role.
SO, I agree with C4 nerf on my char, but I would expect the following as well:
-Nerf Manor system
-Un-implement the Mammon upgrade for top C grade
-Un-implement the Dwarven Manufacture store (this is a multi-player game, not a robot playing game. If ppl want to craft they have to reside on dwarven PLAYERS, not dwarven robots).
-Make common craft for dwarves better than other classes e.g. less mats required when recipe is registered in Dwarven common craft.
-I expected a nice crafting related skill for the ultimate 78 lvl skill of Maestro. Something like "Maesto Craft mastery": adds 15% success propability to non-100% recipes. Or something like that. Instead we get some fighting skills. Whats the role of a WS at the end??
-AND MOST IMPORTANT: Partially fix the bot problem, that nerfs BHs (bot farming materials), and WSs (autocraft/autostoresetup dwarf bots, which are super craft machines that drop the prices through competition too fast. Those machines shouldnt be there the first place, they are ILLEGAL according to EULA).
I dont want a warrior, I want a crafter and money maker, that has to be a burden for his clan/ally to lvl up, but when he does, he enjoyes nice money making mechanisms, the best of all the other classes.
I agree with the C4 nerf, but it would be better if "fixes" like the above took place as well.
I dont wanna solo, i dont wanna contribute to parties, I dont want to pvp, I just want to collect other players earnings (ripping them off that means). I accept that role.
Scam much?
-Nerf Manor system
Why? You gonna get out there and farm all the mats yourself? ...especially if they get rid of the bots, as you suggest later in this post.
-Un-implement the Mammon upgrade for top C grade
Yeah, I'll agree Mammon kinda puts a crimp on lowbie dwarves...
-Un-implement the Dwarven Manufacture store (this is a multi-player game, not a robot playing game. If ppl want to craft they have to reside on dwarven PLAYERS, not dwarven robots).
Scam much?
-Make common craft for dwarves better than other classes e.g. less mats required when recipe is registered in Dwarven common craft.
Common craft blows anyway, get over it.
-I expected a nice crafting related skill for the ultimate 78 lvl skill of Maestro. Something like "Maesto Craft mastery": adds 15% success propability to non-100% recipes. Or something like that. Instead we get some fighting skills. Whats the role of a WS at the end??
/agree
That was pretty lame of them. If you actually look at the description of the Maestro class here on the official website is says:
Master craftsmen who possess extraordinary skills
Yeah...riposte stance is a great crafter skill...NOT
IIRC the original official desctiption of the Maestro described a "summon gear" ability that was described as being able to summon weapons like a summoner...that would have been an awesome skill for seiges...just sit a few maestros in the back and have them toss summoned weapons out for your clannies to use...a whole archer party with summoned soul bows, a whole mage party with summoned SOMs...that would be nice.
Also, IIRC they originally listed the effect of "spoil-crush" for the BH as a skill that would crush items and return 80% mats, instead of crystals...not that lame power attack+spoil skill...
oh well...they had some cool ideas for dwarves and just discarded them it seems.
I dont want a warrior, I want a crafter and money maker, that has to be a burden for his clan/ally to lvl up, but when he does, he enjoyes nice money making mechanisms, the best of all the other classes.
Wait, if all you are is a burdensome moneybag...who the hell would want you anyway?
Wait, if all you are is a burdensome moneybag...who the hell would want you anyway?
"I want to be a burden"...pffft you suck, man. :(
what are you talking about? Who wouldnt want a moneybag?
Having the ability to contribute to the clan's gears/expenses as moneybag, and in return the clan that wants such money bag, has to take the little ws on parties, even if he doesnt contribute much in the fight (that is being a burden in fight).
Thats what Im saying.
Please dont make the big boom nerf out to be more than it is, your class isnt dead. Common craft didnt detract anything from you, no1 could craft those items before anyway. WS still own the market on B, A, and now S grade crafts, and theres plenty of money to be had there.
Just in case someone missed it, I'd like to steal this out of his post.
Wow, some people underestimate dwarves. No damage? I have 800 p.atk and nearly 600 atk. speed at 61 when buffed. I also have no SA on my Elysian yet, add on Anger my p.atk should hit 1000 before level 70. On top of that my golem is another 1100 p.atk, though I believe only 400-ish atk. speed. Waste of money spamming shots on both? I'm pulling in twice as much raw adena drops as I spend per kill, and crafting shots to sell instead of using my stuns. I can duo with a WC on whites/yellows, never needing any form of healing/resting, pulling in a nice amount of money each hunt.
You people say that WS is weak and not made for PvP? Before C4 I could easily kill daggers. Now with pet shots, I can kill them without losing my CP unless they catch me off guard and ALL their skills land (like that ever happens).
Steal away, I was beginning to think that I had managed to up my post count without anyone noticing... :p
Regardless of what the OP had intended, the thread quickly became a "OMG we suck now" thread. Anything that disproves that notion and cannot be argued against must be ignored, otherwise too many people have to admit they're wrong.
Well you can really tell none of the developers play dwarfs, another chronical another dwarf nerfing. Not only do we continue to suck in groups, but now we cant even solo since they changed the way aggro works with big boom. AND now that it costs 3 d-crystals a pop AND!! 99 pet Bsps per go (a whopping 13k adena) no one will ever be using him again.
So in conclusion, C4 has removed a skill away from dwarfs, and its not like they have many in the first place. Thanks L2 peeps.
I didn't read everyone elses post but just the lead and this statement is totaly clueless. If your a BH you really got nothing in C4 but Warsmiths can now use SS for the Mech Golems. The Experince penalty has been reduced by 15% and you can now lvl with your Mech Golem 2x as fast as you could in C3 solo.
As for being nerfed...not in the Olympiad..Maestros owned all the melee classes and even the archers ...the only way archers could win is to survive till it timed out.
As for parties...if you have a WarSmith who is willing to pay for his mechanic Golem and use the SS, he will do as much if not more damage than most of the melee classes. Pet SS is a big plus.
I hear what a lot of you are saying, and I really only intended this thread to discuss the way forward for dwarfs in lvling. But since we are now talking about the whole package lets continue
Money making
material spoil I think has been somewhat tarnished with the introduction of the manor system but I want to talk C3-->C4 here. Now crafting. Crafting has only really been truly profitable if you are at the leading edge of what people want, so that is now some top lvl a grade weapons and s grades. If you not up at these lvl then its totally not worth the money made per time invested. This does exclude ss making, but this involves up to 2-3 hours clicking a button which is not exactly game play at its best and margins on Kain now are very very low. But this has been somewhat tarnished by raid boss farmers and the very high price of mats.
Exping
This is what i really want to discuss here. Solo dwarfs are not alone in finding it hard to exp, but when we factor in our party play as well we are, in all fairiness, bad at both. Other classes that are bad soloers, say a bishopc, DA, SK, really shine in party play. Dwarfs cant really solo (we can but the exp rate is very very very bad and costs a fortune) and in parties WS have nothing to offer other that 100-150 damage per hit with ss which is always the lowest damaging char in the group. OK yes we have polearms, and this is now what I have reverted back to, but lets be serious about this, in many groups its not a desired quality as we just end up waking things up, so back to a blunt and stun. Stun does not land as much as you people like to think, and if it does it does not last long (1seconds tops in party play) which does not really help at all. So what really am I contributing to the group. We need something so that when people want to form groups they say “ooh lets get a WS/BH because they have XYZ” and not “ok we ready?, oh a free slot, I guess we can take that dwarf now and he can just hang around for the fun of watching us kill” If we had a couple of melee crowed control skills we could at least help out and reduce the damage the group takes which would be something to help out the party without making it overpowered. I don’t mind so much about the pvp either (as a WS anyway) as we are about Player vs Castle.
The only think that gets me down is that fact I can't pvp as well as some other classes.
Other than that, there aren't too many people that I party with, that would consider me as extra weight.
Right on the nose. A dwarf should never be considered extra weight. They're still an awesome PvE class.
As for no PvP...well apparently on the PTS the Maestro was a mean little bastard to face in the Olympiad. Can't say I enjoy facing dwarves in PvP...even if you win, it takes FOREVER to take them out.
The only think that gets me down is that fact I can't pvp as well as some other classes.
Other than that, there aren't too many people that I party with, that would consider me as extra weight.
Right on the nose. A dwarf should never be considered extra weight. They're still an awesome PvE class.
As for no PvP...well apparently on the PTS the Maestro was a mean little bastard to face in the Olympiad. Can't say I enjoy facing dwarves in PvP...even if you win, it takes FOREVER to take them out.
I won Hero status twice on the PTS as a Maestro. In PVP with the changes made in C4 with equal buffs at equal armour at equal lvls the WarSmith can hold his own now against any Melee class. With pet SS and the reduction to 15% the experince penalty on our mechanic golem..C4 is good for WarSmiths and if you think a WarSmith can not solo now then you just are not doing it right.
As for Parties...if you aren't going to use your Mechanic Golem your not gonna do that much damage. It seemed to me the Golem triples my damage output with pet soulshot. Talking about hammer crush and the using SS and how much damage the dwarf does...the warsmith himself does not do significant damage. Stun and Tank for his golem in solo is his job.
The toughest classes for the dwarf to beat were the mage classes and that was true all the other melee classes had trouble with mages. Mage's ...and specificaly the summoners dominated the olympiad. In a pvp sitiuation for a dwarf ...especialy solo its your job to stun..run and summon...depending on the situation all in a effort to keep your mechanic golem smacking damage.
One correction to your post..the Maestros that won the Olympiad were not mean little ******** since they were all female....you will have to find another word for them,,,,somthing similar refering to female's
The problem is that everyone doesn't seem to realize the circular effect that having very weak combat abilities (pve and pvp) does to sufficiently strangle a Warsmith's prospects no matter what he/she is trying to do.
Everyone is saying that a Warsmith is good at pve and decent at pvp because of their mechanical golem. While that is indeed true, the difference between the PTS and the live servers that makes this argument lose weight is that the PTS had 10x the adena drops as the live servers. Summoning the mechanical golem, now with C-crystals instead of D-crystals, not to mention the beast SS, and keeping it going wasn't cost-restrictive at all.
On the live servers, it's simply not possible to keep that golem running all the time, while also keeping yourself stocked with SS, without going broke.
People have argued that this shouldn't be a problem, because Warsmiths have one of the best money-making abilities in the game - being able to craft items. Well, this is true, as well, but because of the Blacksmith of Mammon, you won't make very much money until you reach top A-, S-grade, and to a lesser extent, B-grade crafting (B-grade prices are falling significantly on Bartz, so that will indirectly raise the level requirement for any real WS money-making).
And in order to get to those levels, you'll of course need to hunt mobs, which brings us back to how the mechanical golem's summoning and maintenance costs.
Then, people will argue that Warsmiths should get parties, because their mechanical golems will make Warsmiths more attractive to parties. Once again, there's the summoning and maintenance costs associated with the barrel on wheels, and in many cases, you end up spending much more than you would if you were soloing, since the drops from mobs in dungeons don't always compensate for the increase in required players to take them down.
And of course, people will once again bring up WS crafting abilities to compensate for the costs, and around and around we go....
Furthermore, a Warsmith's performance in the Olympiad doesn't exactly exemplify how well a Warsmith performs in all pvp scenarios - the Olympiad isn't where most of the pvp in this game takes place, nor are its conditions (self-buffs only, 1v1, no pots/scrolls) exemplary of common conditions of "commonplace" pvp. Simply put, the Olympiad shouldn't be considered something of a microcosm of the larger Lineage 2 pvp norm.
Well, for all intents and purposes BH = WS - Golem...so I'm guessing they did about 1/2 as well. Seriously, NCSoft needs to give BH something to compensate for the lack of the golems. And being able to enchant spoil into hex at level 76+ is NOT it...neither is fake death...
for the first time im not going to cry about dwarf nerf.
im making at least 3mil a day crafting SSA.
imperial tomb is blunt weakness and resist physical.
friend BH is duoing with an SE in <enter name of that place where u tame pets>. plus hes been spoiling A grade stuff and S grade jewel parts. no complain from him.
People have argued that this shouldn't be a problem, because Warsmiths have one of the best money-making abilities in the game - being able to craft items. Well, this is true, as well, but because of the Blacksmith of Mammon, you won't make very much money until you reach top A-, S-grade, and to a lesser extent, B-grade crafting (B-grade prices are falling significantly on Bartz, so that will indirectly raise the level requirement for any real WS money-making).
This depends on the player. Mine started making me around 200k a day, on average, at level 20. Naturally, by the time I was able to do any summoning, I found the price tag immaterial...of course, I didn't use it anyway, because I was using the not-actually-nerfed polearms. Don't even ask what he's making now that I've levelled him a bit :cool:
I found your post well-thought-out, well-written, but still not correct in all cases. For a player who wants to focus on killing things, the Warsmith is indeed a money sink to level, as you stated. However, for a player who wants to be a major player in the economy, the levelling side of the equation actually gets simpler. I believe that, indirectly, NC is endorsing a particular style of Warsmith.
@Xanthus_: lvl your BH up to 62 and reread your posts here about "leveling solo goes better than mine"
I know, if your dwarf still in his 20's, you go golden times ahaid .. but it stops .. so you need partys and you need to share your spoil .. if not .. you get the answer that your bh isnt a dmg dealer and they dont want you ...
When I made that comment I was talking about other 6x BHs and WSs that are friends/ally mates of mine.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if I'm hunting near you and I sit down before you and still stand up after you, that your soloing's going a bit better than mine is.
The problem is that everyone doesn't seem to realize the circular effect that having very weak combat abilities (pve and pvp) does to sufficiently strangle a Warsmith's prospects no matter what he/she is trying to do.
Everyone is saying that a Warsmith is good at pve and decent at pvp because of their mechanical golem. While that is indeed true, the difference between the PTS and the live servers that makes this argument lose weight is that the PTS had 10x the adena drops as the live servers. Summoning the mechanical golem, now with C-crystals instead of D-crystals, not to mention the beast SS, and keeping it going wasn't cost-restrictive at all.
On the live servers, it's simply not possible to keep that golem running all the time, while also keeping yourself stocked with SS, without going broke.
People have argued that this shouldn't be a problem, because Warsmiths have one of the best money-making abilities in the game - being able to craft items. Well, this is true, as well, but because of the Blacksmith of Mammon, you won't make very much money until you reach top A-, S-grade, and to a lesser extent, B-grade crafting (B-grade prices are falling significantly on Bartz, so that will indirectly raise the level requirement for any real WS money-making).
And in order to get to those levels, you'll of course need to hunt mobs, which brings us back to how the mechanical golem's summoning and maintenance costs.
Then, people will argue that Warsmiths should get parties, because their mechanical golems will make Warsmiths more attractive to parties. Once again, there's the summoning and maintenance costs associated with the barrel on wheels, and in many cases, you end up spending much more than you would if you were soloing, since the drops from mobs in dungeons don't always compensate for the increase in required players to take them down.
And of course, people will once again bring up WS crafting abilities to compensate for the costs, and around and around we go....
Furthermore, a Warsmith's performance in the Olympiad doesn't exactly exemplify how well a Warsmith performs in all pvp scenarios - the Olympiad isn't where most of the pvp in this game takes place, nor are its conditions (self-buffs only, 1v1, no pots/scrolls) exemplary of common conditions of "commonplace" pvp. Simply put, the Olympiad shouldn't be considered something of a microcosm of the larger Lineage 2 pvp norm.
You have a point on the cost of using the Mechanic Golem...but I rember in Prelude when I was lvl 20 - 40 and there was no 30% penalty. I could get about 30% more exp by using the golem continualy but I barely made the adena back to cover the cost of it so I did not use it. Looking back that was a mistake. Gaining LVL is more important that making adena. If you break even you are gaining. Besides at higher lvls it gets easier and easier to make the cost of the Golem back.
As for PVP...alone a dwarf is no good if he has no summon. BH's are at a real loss..but with the addition of SS and SPS for the Mechanic Golem...a WarSmiths ability to fight is increased significantly. If you choose to believe a WarSmith in a pvp party is useless it will be to your loss.
Here is another thing to concider..if you are lvling just with your Mechanic Golem...your warsmith doesnt need the over enchanted weapons and the most expensive items...your Golem will outdamage you. Your Mech Golem is your primary weapon now.
You'll all quickly realize that money isnt the hard thing to get in this game, and if you're in a clan, equipment isnt either (just train a few bots).
XP on the other hand, for a dwarf, is now insane. As a Warsmith, crafting is basicly useless now, all the high grade stuff is quest-only. Big boom is now an instant death sentance since you get aggro.
In exchange for all that greatness, we have no combat skills of any kind other then lots of HP. We're maybe 1/4 as powerful as a Warlord, and noone wants us around in parties, since we cant even spoil.
You'll all quickly realize that money isnt the hard thing to get in this game, and if you're in a clan, equipment isnt either (just train a few bots).
XP on the other hand, for a dwarf, is now insane. As a Warsmith, crafting is basicly useless now, all the high grade stuff is quest-only. Big boom is now an instant death sentance since you get aggro.
In exchange for all that greatness, we have no combat skills of any kind other then lots of HP. We're maybe 1/4 as powerful as a Warlord, and noone wants us around in parties, since we cant even spoil.
It's pretty sad to be a dwarf these days.
1/4 as powerful as a warlord? Where did you get that number? Last time I checked, you get the same masteries, and the same whirlwind. You dont get Thunderstorm, Howl, or Thrill Fight, but you, unlike a warlord, can use a wep that isnt a polearm. Warlords arent welcome in any party that isn't aoe. You are welcome, to some extent, in both.
if anyone here can list 1 thing a ws can do better than any other class ill stop argueing
i can give 2 examples
crystalizing (last i check most ws will do this for free)
siege golems (happens once every 2 weeks if that, nobles can also bash walls now)
this is the problem with ws's
a mage hits hard its his job he is very good at it
a tank tanks he is very good at it
a healer heals he is very good at it
a summoner summons he is very good at it
a archer shoots arows he is very good at it
a spoiler spoils he is very good at it
i would like to add that all those classes earn xp for what they do best, now lets look at ws's
a ws crafts....
any other class can craft just as well if not better than a ws
if i was to craft a maj helm i would go get the recipie first, well i cant farm the rec because without a party i cant enter toi
so i buy 1, now should i register one? no prolly not, better to just pay the 100k craft fee and craft off another ws
mats? well all classes get more mats per hour than a ws
so what do we do better than any other class? we can make ss i guess, but when the average se has 3x the mp regen rate we do, even if they have to pay a 500a craft fee at the end of the day they make more than we do
the golem is a luxuary item its not a 24/7 lvling buddy
take away our money making abilities and we wont use it
all the rich ws's you see are from c1 or were the first to register b/a grade crafts
once again im just trying to defend the lower lvl ws's at 70+ you can actually make adena while lvling
I can't help but to laugh at the people saying BH is a moneymaker, everyone knows thats not true. Share spoil=Makes BH like everyone else in the party. Many of the BH's left are from the old days where share spoil didn't come into existence yet, so they just stick with the class hoping something good will come out of it. I highly doubt that anyone here would make a BH just to share spoil. Because when you make one now adays thats what your going to end up doing. And don't say your going to solo unless you plan on staying low lvl forever, because at high lvl solo is nearly none existent. Especially for the BH class.
Let me also state, BH blows for pvp.
1 high lvl stun
1 low lvl stun
Wild sweep(lol)
Whirlwind(lol)
Fake death(only good for pve)
Wrath(decent......)
Thats my whole skill list lol. I wish I was a nuker or something so I could get more skills. Sucks to lvl up just to get upgrades. As for the WS complaining, you guys are lucky. At least you can be efficient in pvp.
You'll all quickly realize that money isnt the hard thing to get in this game, and if you're in a clan, equipment isnt either (just train a few bots).
XP on the other hand, for a dwarf, is now insane. As a Warsmith, crafting is basicly useless now, all the high grade stuff is quest-only. Big boom is now an instant death sentance since you get aggro.
In exchange for all that greatness, we have no combat skills of any kind other then lots of HP. We're maybe 1/4 as powerful as a Warlord, and noone wants us around in parties, since we cant even spoil.
It's pretty sad to be a dwarf these days.
1/4 as powerful as a warlord? Where did you get that number? Last time I checked, you get the same masteries, and the same whirlwind. You dont get Thunderstorm, Howl, or Thrill Fight, but you, unlike a warlord, can use a wep that isnt a polearm. Warlords arent welcome in any party that isn't aoe. You are welcome, to some extent, in both.
He is right about 1/4, Warlords get self buffs that stack and make them stronger as compared to a dwarf who gets none.. Also Warlord has a skill called focus that enables them to hit single mobs.
I take all your points and understand them. I see how some say its not all bad, and its true. We can still polearm and even more so now that they have nerfed other chars polearm abilities and the golem is a solo possibility (if your willing to spend the ss for the dwarf and golem). But I still feel that we are missing a role to play in groups. We lack that yes lets get a WS because they have “skill x”.
"stumbling into thread"
I'm a BH, btw.
Just a quick note about the guy saying "use a pole when you pt". Right. There's something called pole parties, ok, but most people do normal pt. And in normal pt, you usually have a bishop or whatnot and what does he do most of the time? He sleeps. And there comes Big Bob with his pole! Do I need to explain any further?
Now, about the BH (sorry, I'm not a WS, can't really comment), I spend my time complaining, but it's because I'm a dwarf, I wouldn't be a true dwarf if I weren't complaining, right? Honestly, I don't think we BH need much changes (except correct the stupid typo that makes sweeper crash, heh?).
1) the WS summon. I'm very, very, most pleased with the new pets. They heal. That's just great for us. I mean it, that's awesome, fight longer, less downtime and all, and they barely eat. If they could give some newbie buffs, that would be a dream, but yeah, indeed, I'm dreaming.
2) solo. That's right, BH can't solo at higher lvl. I've seen some funny figures above in the thread about damage. 200 w/o SS? Must be a lvl75, coz I'm 51, I surely don't do 200 on white mobs with SS on, with a raksa mace+3.
3) BH making money. that so much of a joke that I won't even comment on that, so
3-bis, the true 3) groups. THE big deal. Let's face it, most people don't even care about the spoils. They only do when the idea crosses their mind to craft a B, A (or, for some odd reason, C) grade something. And then they pester you to come for the parts, until they figure out crafting is a bother and it's easier to buy ( 80% of the players, the 20% dedicated ones are usually the nice ones too anyway, they don't pester you or anything). What we need is a party friendly skill, something that makes people say "would be cool to have a dwarf for its **** skill". A aoe stun maybe, or something like that.
What I personally want, is a silly, stupid thing: shield mastery, and maybe some other shield related skill. Let's just forget about the other guy who think a dwarf should solo with a pole, mkay, and now, you'll notice that for most dwarfs a shield is default equipment. How come we don't even have shield mastery? The one big point dwarfs are supposed to have is to be sturdy. They're no tanks, no matter what others want, coz we just can't keep agro. No hate, no damage, you can keep agro for the best of 5 seconds i you spoil and stun, and then you'll lose it for good. But, mind what the other sais, BH are supposed to solo. So they're supposed to be strong. I understand they don't have to be great DD (they're surely not anyway), a DD's a DD, a tank is a tank. A BH is supposed to solo. How to make it soloing more easily w/o making it kill faster? Make it last longer. Give it shield mastery, **** it :/
But who am I kidding? I don't expect anything to come for dwarves. You know what's the skill BH get at lvl75? A stun spoil! OMG! The originality! Now we can stun and spoil in ONE click. Considering the table skill and landing rates, tho, I can now laught while I launch 4 different stuns one after the other at my target, just to be sure. That said, I'm pretty sure the skill can't be used in PvP.
Well, of course, the description wouldn't fit all players, but wanting "to be a major player in the economy" as the prime motive for playing a WS main probably isn't the most common reason for why most people still playing their WS as their main still continue as a WS, either.
Any WS could have made 200k per day quite easily when the average level of all players were within D-grade mastery levels. Now, on the other hand, with most of the player base being far beyond the D-grade mastery levels, it's highly unlikely that a WS could make 200k per day without a huge, new influx of players.
Simply put, the "level > money > level" circle still continues, but while you've managed to already level a Warsmith past a certain "critical mass" point, where your craft level allows you to benefit from the higher-level range of players on your server, what about those WS who are below that craft skill level, or those who weren't around in OB, Prelude, or C1 to amass fortunes to buffer themselves from the costs of levelling a WS?
Just imagine if you were a lvl 20 WS again, now in C4. Would you still be able to level at a reasonable pace, given the change in summoning and maintenance costs? Chances are, until you reached, at least, the CBSpS craft level, you'd be stuck with alternating months between crafting DSS/DBSpS for sale, and exping, since the number of players who actually need D-grade anything is far below what's needed for a shorter investment turnover.
The difference between back then (Prelude, C1, C2, C3) is that the mechanical golem (why did they change the name to "mechanic golem," anyway?) used D-crystals, rather than C4's change to C-crystals.
With the increase in C-crystal usage (even moreso than the Dark-Screamer-from-Lux-Shop-Trade-Blacksmith-for-Homunkulus-then-overenchant frenzy taking place in C3, which sort of balanced itself out when Homunkuluses exploded) due to the additional C-crystal usage from more traditional summoners on top of Warsmiths, C-crystal prices really have no way to go but up. While the C-crystal market was somewhat buoyed by the Homunkulus insanity in C3 and somewhat by sieges, increased required usage of C-crystals in C4 can only further inflate their prices.
This, of course, makes the expense part of summoning the mechanical golem even more devastating beyond what hunting higher-level mobs can compensate (the higher per mob adena drop compensation associated with hunting higher-level mobs); even for higher-level Warsmiths, the summoning and maintenance costs associated with levelling won't even allow a break-even anymore.
As for PvP, imagining a Warsmith standing next to an archer or nuker when the fight starts is one thing, but in actual gameplay, the fighting usually starts at a range of 900, and the first thing that any remotely-competent nuker/archer does is kill the golem. Golems have probably the worst pdef/mdef of all the summons, and with the increased costs and the longer cast time of the summon skill added in C4, simply resummoning isn't such a simple act anymore, even against remotely-competent melee fighters.
And that same issue with the golem's pathetic pdef/mdef is exactly why Warsmiths can't completely neglect their own weapon and SS. While Warsmiths don't have a hate skill, they can, at least, go in first, get aggro, and hopefully stun. Warsmiths need to, at least, do just enough damage, while the golem fights in tandem, to hold aggro until the last bits of mob HP are left, due to the golem's horrible defense stats.
If the golem gets bled or poisoned, which is pretty common, you'll have to stow the golem for only final attacks for fear of the resummoning costs, should the golem get hit even once and die.
Simply put, the golem isn't some kind of miracle hunting device. While it has very good DD abilities, it can't take nearly as much damage as people think it could, nor do its resummoning costs allow it to be anywhere near as disposable as they were in C3.
Which is why it could only go up (rather than reduced prices caused by exploding Homunkuluses) and it would still require the initial investment of two Elven Longswords + dualing fee, which new, low-level Warsmiths probably won't have on-hand for months of crafting shots and selling.
In short, the required use of C-crystals by summoners and Warsmiths would reinforce ("harden") the conceptual "floor price" of C-crystals, offsetting the deflationary effects of Homunkulus blow-ups, which could also suffer from the Sword of Valhallla's new Acumen SA in C4.
Rhina you need to make new friends ^^. My normal parties are aoe parties.... I do single mobs when I am bored of aoe. Rhina how about you start lvling a wolf and try to get a friend who is a SE to do the same. So when you are duoing you can farm mats like crazy and only have to share them between two people not four.
But, still require large, initial investments, which is hard for a low-level WS to get due to a very limited number of "true" new players coming into the game.
And the other stuff I said in the previous reply above.
I am a dwarf WS lvl40, just did the class change. I started lvling on 7th January. I haven't been powerleveled and I don't have boxed SE :) I don't craft SS, just buy/sell over the night, during a day 50% of time was spent lvling with pole in catacombs and the rest were the quests.
I can afford to play max 5 hours on work day and some more on weekends.
All I can say is that crafting IS possible and profitable on lower levels, you just have to know the market (crafting SS requires you to sit on your butt and you loose xp that way). Also I don't feel I'm soloing too slow. It takes alot of money to solo, but I actually gain XP faster than in duo. For a dwarf, the more money you have the faster you solo.
Thats right ^^ But we're speaking about dwarves now, aren't we? We're one of the most money(gear) dependant classes in game. Some classes just need a good staff or bow.
I'm confused. You say you just buy/sell overnight, but how does that lend credibility towards your claim that crafting at low-levels (lvl 1 to under CBSpS crafting level) is worthwhile? Unless you mean buy/sell mats overnight to use towards crafting, which I highly doubt, since mat prices are inflated past the point where they're worthwhile to use towards low-level crafting on all levels except for FoTM items (Homunkulus, highly overenchanted).
The first (buying/selling) indicates that you buy finished equipment and sell them to make your money. How does that relate to your crafting and selling what you've crafted?
Crafting and buying/selling finished items are two entirely different means of making money. One (crafting) is hampered by inflated prices of regular mats (due to higher-level crafting and the Blacksmith of Mammon at low levels), and the other is something anyone can do as long as they have the initial investment money.
Ok, well, have fun trying to keep up with the expenses and xp requirements getting up past lvl 60 then, 'cause I'm pretty sure whatever mojo you're working now won't help you much then :p
The price of C-Cry for WS will always remain around the 3k mark, dual SoRs and crush, simple.
As for the golem dieing, its true his Pdef sucks and how a mechanical golem gets poisoned/bleed is beyond me and I think it should be immune to such things. But then I guess keeping him alive is what the challenge is. I don’t think solo play is too much of an issue (although not made easy either) I think the key question should be is why would anyone want a WS in a party.
I think the BH should be an expert soloer, and the WS party centric. BH maybe getting better specialising in light armour with great evasion bonus with less HP and maybe a move towards swords specialisation and bleeding/impale skill or something. The WS more HP shield defence and one/two handed blunts and poles specialisation. Doing less damage than the BH but able to take more of a punch with his golem assisting in the damage dealing when soling and instead of the quick kill of the BH, the WS stuns and maybe something like leg sweeps to take the mob out of play for a small amount of time.
This vision I think fits in better with what the characters feel they should be. Ok I know this feel like your just turning the BH into a dagger char and the WS into a tank, but no not really. The BH would still rely on his higher HP and lower speed in attacking using a sword (no shield) and the WS would be less defensive than tanks but instead have more HP and assisting as a crowed controller and minor damage dealer is pet is out.
I think this way they would have clear difference in roles and abilities. And the BH would be wanted in parties to spoil and the WS for his crowed controls
Sure, the price of C-crystals will always be around 3k each for a Warsmith, if the Warsmith has the money to pay for two SoRs + craft fee.
Along with that, you most likely won't even break even from your hunting because of the expenses of keeping that golem running and fueled with beast SS, so you're dealing with a constantly-decreasing pool of money that trickles away with every new batch of C-crystals you make.
B-grade is falling sharply in price, reducing its profitability. A-grade is needed, and S-grade will eventually be huge money-makers.
But, all these things require two things for them, both of which are restricted by that ever-diminishing pool of money - levels and recipes.
It all feeds into the same circle of "money > exp > money."
As for BHs, I'm not completely sure about their prospects for party play in C4, but in C3, after the first few months, BHs were in-demand in parties less and less.
Most of the time, you'd get A-grade parts from spoiling, and that's great, but as the Chronicle went on, getting another Tallum Helm part to throw on the pile in your WH from spoiling didn't exactly have the same luster as it did when the Chronicle was released.
If that's the case again in C4, then BHs will again be useful to parties only in the beginning, then sort of fizzle out towards the middle and end.
edit: That is, if they ever get around to fixing that sweep-crash bug.
How a WarSmith PVP's against a archer in solo pvp...everyone talks about fights starting at 900 distance...distance is good.
What a warsmith has to do to fight an archer and win is keep his golem between him and the archer. When the archer kites the dwarf isnt chasing he is standing back..the golem is hitting and using his cannon to eat away. When the golem is about dead the warsmith begins kiting away from the archer, if you unsummon right before its dead you can resummon immediatly..if not you have a few second wait. It takes right at 12 seconds to recast, if he is lucky he gets one shot on you and is able to stun..if not he has another golem after him.
The only time you close in and try to stun the archer is when ...he has charged you to try and stun...you may catch him with one stun after the golem is up...if you dont ...dont chase him....Only close on him when he comes between you and the golem or he ignores the golem. If he ignores the golem you come to him to get him to chase you...and put the golem in between the two of you attacking him.
Fighting Solo mages or melee if your golem is about dead kite so you have a chance to summon undisturbed. Dwarf's have a high CON and it helps them not be interupted.
Is a dwarf great at PVP? Overall he can hold his own but if you want real pvp charichters in C4 you should have summoners.
TinyTerror: That ONLY apply on warsmiths, BH have nothing like that.
An BH got 100% identical skills then an WS when it's PVP, and this is some heavely balance issisues here NCSOFT SEE THAT!, BH got one skill WS does not, and that is fake death, but not good in PvP, it's fair useless actually.
And yeah NCSoft go and look over your class description agian, you probobly need to swap the part about fighting between BH and WS, as WS is clearly the beter fighter and not BH as the description say false advertising is bad for your players.
Well, of course, the description wouldn't fit all players, but wanting "to be a major player in the economy" as the prime motive for playing a WS main probably isn't the most common reason for why most people still playing their WS as their main still continue as a WS, either.
I don't doubt you're right. However, I think that's the style NC is really pushing for them. Rather than swinging a sword, they should be saying "My, that's a masterful piece of work, where did you buy it?" :p
Any WS could have made 200k per day quite easily when the average level of all players were within D-grade mastery levels. Now, on the other hand, with most of the player base being far beyond the D-grade mastery levels, it's highly unlikely that a WS could make 200k per day without a huge, new influx of players.
Simply put, the "level > money > level" circle still continues, but while you've managed to already level a Warsmith past a certain "critical mass" point, where your craft level allows you to benefit from the higher-level range of players on your server, what about those WS who are below that craft skill level, or those who weren't around in OB, Prelude, or C1 to amass fortunes to buffer themselves from the costs of levelling a WS?
Just imagine if you were a lvl 20 WS again, now in C4. Would you still be able to level at a reasonable pace, given the change in summoning and maintenance costs? Chances are, until you reached, at least, the CBSpS craft level, you'd be stuck with alternating months between crafting DSS/DBSpS for sale, and exping, since the number of players who actually need D-grade anything is far below what's needed for a shorter investment turnover.
Just for clarity, this was the very end of C2 and halfway through C3 (was levelling other characters so he stayed at 20 for a few months). 200k average, 100k on a bad day, really high on a good day...but, I'm one of those weird people who really gets involved with the economy, most people don't push that hard. :D
I'm not knocking your analysis, I'm sure it's harder now than in Prelude if your history is correct...but it's still fully possible now, as my own experience indicates.
(one thing I will correct, though--I when I go on a crafting spree and end up with 20k DBSpS [100k profit!] or 40k DSS [50k profit, bah], they sell out in a few hours, so obviously the market for them isn't hurting too bad. ;) )
TinyTerror: That ONLY apply on warsmiths, BH have nothing like that.
An BH got 100% identical skills then an WS when it's PVP, and this is some heavely balance issisues here NCSOFT SEE THAT!, BH got one skill WS does not, and that is fake death, but not good in PvP, it's fair useless actually.
And yeah NCSoft go and look over your class description agian, you probobly need to swap the part about fighting between BH and WS, as WS is clearly the beter fighter and not BH as the description say false advertising is bad for your players.
I agree about BH's. Really they are about the most overlooked in the game. In the Olympiad on the PTS I don't think there was even a BH that made hero in his class and there were several nobless BH's that competed. The only benifit the BH got at higher lvl's is that his fighting skills cost less than the WS but his spoil skills offset that savings. But a WarSmith without his summon in PVP is just the same as a BH and really that puts them at the bottom in PVP.
For this thread though...C4 didnt nerf the BH's ...they never had the pvp skills to take away. They have always been lacking
maybe ok for you as a non-dwarf, but now we cant do anything in the game alone.
i can actually effectively solo with the mechanic golem (just need my se slave :/)
at my lvl i actually make adena while grinding with full auto spam (lvl 70 mech)
you unfortunately like me at your lvl will lose millions a day
please explain to me how having 'an SE slave' is operating solo? solo is just that SOLO - ALONE, SINGULAR, ONE! having your dbl box up is NOT solo, that's duo. get a clue.
See there lies the real problem.. folks who made a artisan/warsmith (like myself).. did it so they could craft things to make money. Only one problem.. You cant realy do it with the way things are set up now. I mean seriously.. artisans crafting D items? The bloody mats are too expensive.. and it costs more to craft than it does to buy the item in Giran at a 15% lord tax rate. That goes for C grade as well. And higher?.. again.. folks are payin so much for mats they dont want to pay any kind of "commission" to a filthy rich dwarf. Yep.. thats what most folks think dwarves are. And oh.. how wrong they are. Yes.. money can be made, but it takes lots of time and effort.. and all that time and effort to craft/make money is time away from xping. Since after all.. our warsmiths dont get xp for crafting. Now.. gosh.. theres an idea eh?
As for bringing real crafting back into the game. For that they would need to get rid of Manor system entirely and bring the mat drop rates back up. Thus BH would then be of some use again.. and also help bring the supply of mats up to bring there prices to a more managable level (supply and demand.. basic economics).. eg.. make it affordable to craft again.. you know, like back in C1. When you could find Elven Mith Gloves, Manti Boots, Brig Shields, etc.. more commonly. Back then arti's could make money crafting. Now you cant.. and the prices of those "craft only" items have gone through the roof.
Manor nerfed Warsmiths and Bounty Hunters hard.. just most folks using it were to worried about there "new way to make money" to understand all the implications of that. And now they end up paying the price anyway.. See less warsmiths to craft as they reroll, leave the game, get frustraited as there class keeps getting nerfed over the last 3 chronicles.. The only people manor helps are those looking for quick cash, and castle lords. Certianly not the crafters and spoilers.
i agree with the majority of this.!! i have both a WS and a BH. and IF i craft anything, is i use my supplies, there is a bare, if any, profit. and IF someone uses my craft shop, there again little, if any profit. because the cost of the recipes far outweighs the use factors. and if i could (even if i wanted to) use the manor system - with all the bots taking over that system- i would never get to the manor in time to make any profit. and with C4 - it is worthless for me to even try to bring my BH (lvl46) out to work. (and there is just way too much time, effort, and money invested in the BH to just 're-roll'. I enjoy being a dwarf. i don't enjoy getting slammed because i try to help others with my skills (such as they are). and with the way C4 has it set up, i don't even get to make worthwhile use of those skills anymore, either. GET A CLUE NCsoft - STOP destroying those special skills that you had originally designed for this race and these classes. you opted for race specific skills.. give them back. stop watering down these skills. thank you .
Spear using BH (and WS to an extent) make profit whilst hunting, almost every other class loses money whilst hunting. Dorfs are in no way in-need of a boost. They excel in "fair" pvp (WS at least, BH kinda suck, i say fair pvp, as in olypmipad rules) and they also level fast with no affects of the aoe nerf and make cash at the same time. Go back into your cave and count your piles of gold and im sure you'll feel better.
Spear using BH (and WS to an extent) make profit whilst hunting, almost every other class loses money whilst hunting. Dorfs are in no way in-need of a boost. They excel in "fair" pvp (WS at least, BH kinda suck, i say fair pvp, as in olypmipad rules) and they also level fast with no affects of the aoe nerf and make cash at the same time. Go back into your cave and count your piles of gold and im sure you'll feel better.
I'd like to point out an ability that ONLY a WS brings. It's not on your active skill lists. It's not on your passive list either.
What you bring is the ability to camp a party in extremely hard to get places for very extended periods of time. If a WS completely empties his inv except for equipped items and crystals and ore and mats for arrows, they instantly become a HUGE asset to someone that wants to camp at out-of-the-way places like the Heart of Antharas and any other similar places that have a virtual army of mobs. Once you are in place, your WS can cover all shot and arrow crafting on the spot. If the WS runs out of anything before they are ready to leave, any silent step character can bring resupplies. That can also include other supplies not needed for crafting. I know several clans have done this in the past.
Many times, the only reason I leave a hunting spot is because I am out of shot. On several occasions though, I've been fortunate enough to be in party with a WS who can just craft up whatever I need right there without stopping the party, without going to town.
Sadly, this does not help the plight of the BH, but they can always be the 'runner' for that party. Since they are dwarves and have increased capacity for carrying supplies back to the group and can fake death just before reaching party.
The real truth is, and I want you all to think about this hard, if you are a dwarf, you should most likely be affiliated with a clan. At lower levels, it's less necessary, but I have never met a high-level dwarf that did not get party 'favors' from their clan/alliance. That's both BH and WS. Any clan/alliance should be more than willing to group any BH or WS without question, immediately. If they won't, then you are in the wrong bunch. This obviously doesn't apply for alts, only for dwarf main characters.
This game is party-centric. It has been since waaaay back when, before there were 7 servers, much less the 9 we have now. A person has every right to CHOOSE to play this game solo. Just know that it is your choice to solo or to find friends with similar values and enjoy the benefits of a mutual relationship.
It's really just a big sociology experiment.... and how are you doing today ?
please explain to me how having 'an SE slave' is operating solo? solo is just that SOLO - ALONE, SINGULAR, ONE! having your dbl box up is NOT solo, that's duo. get a clue.
woah there horsey
in case you didnt realize im trying to defend you poor pathetic low lvl ws's
i like every other ws on every other server had to lvl solo (duel box at 63 when i didnt really need it)
at 57 i was loseing about 3 mil a day solo when i was earning 800k from crafting
this all goes back to the xp > money > xp thing
at my lvl i stand a chance to get myself a +8 top a grade weapon and do some pve damage of course ill still prolly get pwned but a mage with a +7 homu who played the market or went on raids to get equipt
im trying to defend the lower lvl dwarfs who wont have it as easy as me
as far as im concerned bh should be the best solo class there is, ppl should beg them for parties so they can share the spoils
pvp they should have like 10% more pattack than a ws
as for ws well i dont have a friggn clue maybe cheaper ss and golems so at least when we are forced to solo we arent also forced to spend hours crafting to recoup losses
also a little off topic but all melee classes should either do 30% extra damage in pve or recive a xp bonus for killing mobs
its sickening to see a mage 2 hit a mob which takes me 30 hits to kill only to have it drop them 3k adena
down time as balance? lol most mages dont have any downtime and if they do whats it matter when you just nuked 100 mobs into the group in 30 seconds?
balance? well melee classes can spam ghp and go non stop, 1ka to restore 500 hp when 1 mob takes 700 hp from me
please explain to me how having 'an SE slave' is operating solo? solo is just that SOLO - ALONE, SINGULAR, ONE! having your dbl box up is NOT solo, that's duo. get a clue.
woah there horsey
in case you didnt realize im trying to defend you poor pathetic low lvl ws's
(this was in response - if you had looked at the whole of her text- that she was solo with an SE slave for heals, etc. THAT is not solo.)
and appearantly, at 47 and 49, i am generally considered to be low level in regards to most of the folks on these boards. and yes it is difficlut to work solo, but i generally have little choice. it is either work solo, or don't work. i have BH and WS. and most folks ask for my EE to party with (and that is nearly the only way i am able to lvl my ee - in a party) instead of my dwarves.
i like every other ws on every other server had to lvl solo (duel box at 63 when i didnt really need it)
at 57 i was loseing about 3 mil a day solo when i was earning 800k from crafting
this all goes back to the xp > money > xp thing
at my lvl i stand a chance to get myself a +8 top a grade weapon and do some pve damage of course ill still prolly get pwned but a mage with a +7 homu who played the market or went on raids to get equipt
im trying to defend the lower lvl dwarfs who wont have it as easy as me
as far as im concerned bh should be the best solo class there is, ppl should beg them for parties so they can share the spoils
pvp they should have like 10% more pattack than a ws
and if i continue to choose to not participate in pvp? and if the programmers continue to make it too difficult to collect sweeps from our spoil spells? then what shall that solo BH do for work within the game? errands?
as for ws well i dont have a friggn clue maybe cheaper ss and golems so at least when we are forced to solo we arent also forced to spend hours crafting to recoup losses
and if you do not have (or choose to not use) a golem? (any other pet is MUCH cheaper to feed than a golem) and with the common craftbook out now, how is a WS suppose to work at anything, except killing mobs? the costs for basic mats and recipes are becoming astronomical. i have gotten into the practice of not crafting an item until someone asks for it. so that i can have those basic mats available for which ever item i may need them for. I find it more then just time consuming to build something, only to have to crush it because no one is willing to buy it at a reasonable price. even if i base my prices on what npc pays for any item. if it is an item that i can craft, but is also available in the npc store for at or slightly lower than my price - folks will take the npc item, then i have to crush that peice, and have lost those mats forever. thus creating a loss to my inventory.
also a little off topic but all melee classes should either do 30% extra damage in pve or recive a xp bonus for killing mobs
its sickening to see a mage 2 hit a mob which takes me 30 hits to kill only to have it drop them 3k adena
down time as balance? lol most mages dont have any downtime and if they do whats it matter when you just nuked 100 mobs into the group in 30 seconds?
balance? well melee classes can spam ghp and go non stop, 1ka to restore 500 hp when 1 mob takes 700 hp from me
that's your nuker - not my healer .. i spend most of my time buffing, healing, and rezzing the party members. when i'm not working that way, i need to have that down time to gather my mana back. (EE doesn't have those special skills that some of the others seem to be able to use - utilizing hp for mana regen).
I can only speak for myself but in C4 I made more money in the 1st week then in the last Month of C3 (with party spoil share). The Spoil is broken atm --> true... but I get so many PMs to join groups, its crazy.
I hunt allot in the new C4 places and get A and S grade Weapon Parts as spoils (S armor parts too). I even crafted my S grade juwels already and unsealed em (and started to enchant em).
I cant really complain atm.
About the 76 skill:
Spoilcrush: Tested it allot the last week and I say that it lands more then normal spoil + u do some dmg for only 3MP more. BUT it does not stun like Hammer Crush and it casts slower then normal Spoil.
My main Weapon is a Polearm so i had to get a Blunt to use that skill cause it works only with Blunts. NC didnt think about a Dwarf that uses a Polearm eh? ^^ (well.. that counts only for that skill)
About Skill Enchant:
I enchanted some skills and tested em but I dunno what to think about the effects.
Enchanted Spoil: Spoil that decreases atk. Speed --> Sounds good. Well, it is.. If u every see it land on a mob ^^
At +3 Spoil it lands maybe every 10 mobs. Its a nice addon but not really good to help the group.
I dunno about Spoil-Festival tho. I think with Spoil-Festival its great cause there are more mobs.
The thing that i dont like is: I cant debuff use it in PvP >.<
In PvP it gives u a Message if it landed or not but there is no affect. After Mailing a bit with the Support they finally told me that it is a unique skill only for PvE. It would be such a good addon to balance the BH class. But well...
Sweeper Enchant: Enchanted Sweeper to +3. There was no description to the Enchant effect so I looked a bit around and saw that u can get the effects: MP or HP recovery if u Sweep a spoiled Mob. So i enchanted it that it gives back MP.
Well... I looked at my MP Bar for 1 hour and NOTHING HAPPENED. There is no regeneration at all. 7MP/tick not more or less. I dont even wanna contact the support about that cause they only tell me to Post at the Forums cause its a "Gameplay Question". I really wanna know if its bugged or not ^^
What i miss at the Enchants is the "Enchant Polearm Mastery". We can enchant the Blunt Mastery but no Pole.
Question: Why?
About the PvP stuff....
In mass PvP a Dwarf is a frikin zerg Machine ^^. Noone targets u cause u have to much HP so they dont even wanna target u. For my part: Dwarf + Mass PvP + Polearm = really good.
If u do a 1vs1 its a bit different tho ^^
If I 1vs1 a DA or a Warlord I have a really good chance to win. If u PvP a WS as a BH u have no chance.. nothing more to add cause he got the Golem + he got the same insane HP :)
PvP against a mage... If the Mage got no Empower then u have a good chance at higher lvls, ok.. the chance is not good but its possible now cause they cant u Flare u to death anymore :)
S Juwels + Magic Barrier + Dwarf = 932 M.Def (and with SWS songs its 1220 M.Def) I think its not bad at all :)
I learned the lvl 76 skill Wisdom and I saw a difference. Its way harder to sleep/root now.
I think only the the low lvl BHs have a hard time right now cause they got nothing new. The high lvl BHs will love this Chronicle. At least I do :)
Sweeper Enchant: Enchanted Sweeper to +3. There was no description to the Enchant effect so I looked a bit around and saw that u can get the effects: MP or HP recovery if u Sweep a spoiled Mob. So i enchanted it that it gives back MP.
Well... I looked at my MP Bar for 1 hour and NOTHING HAPPENED. There is no regeneration at all. 7MP/tick not more or less. I dont even wanna contact the support about that cause they only tell me to Post at the Forums cause its a "Gameplay Question". I really wanna know if its bugged or not ^^
Ok, I think they meant that when you sweep it gives you the sweep AND some MP. Not that it just raises your MP recovery. So, next time you sweep watch your MP and see if you get any bonus MP. :D
That's lame, and BTW I found another bug that's actually been there for a while, and I've never heard anyone mention.
Go look at the Gladiator skill list, level 74. You should see, close to the top:
Fatal Strike, lvl 37: After gathering power, it strikes hard. Can be used when one is equipped with sword or blunt type weapon. Power 1827. Over-hit is possible.
I played a gladiator on C3 PTS, and it leveled up nicely and was a great skill (shield + blunt gladi). Not as powerful as TSS, but you didn't have to charge it, it costs a lot less mp, and it recharges quicker. Not to mention that overhit ROX.
Now look at a gladi in game...the skill doesn't level past 9.
A think I noticed of NC's regard of dwarfs, in dwarf only second provesion quests the main targets are light and deep blue mobs: now my dwarfy is 37 and i'm doing first and second quests and mobs I'm hunting are lvls 24, 25, 27, 29, 30, 31 and such. i guess this is what NC Soft thinks dwarfs are capable of.
For comparasing here are mobs other races have to hunt:
-Humans: lvl 13 and 18 (to spawn an higher lvl mob), 34, 35, 36, 39 40. There are some realy deep blue, but mostly are green-whitees with 1 yellow.
-Elfs: 35, 36, 32, 39, 40, here again we see greens to yellows, same as humans.
-Dark Elfs: choice of 29-35, 35-36, 34, 39, 40, could be done on green to yelows, but has a choice of dark blue too.
-Orks: 40, 35, 36, choice of 40-45, 41-42.
All information here taken from Stratic (both quests and mob lvls), and it is not fully completed because I didnt found some of the quest monsters. All the quest I looked at are pure racial quest, the second quests for all rases and first quest for dwarfs, since first quest for dwarfs is also racial.
Hardest part with the dwarf quest was to go deep deep into CT2, lv 50 mobs as a dwarf, this was changed thoght, so :P your a bit wrong with your post.
That part is for Trial of a Searcher, which we share with dagger classes. So that isn't Dwarf racial quest. And they changed it later to CT1, where you have mostly yellow mobs and I think it's pocible to run there without pulling to much agro and use gate keaper to get rid of agro. At least my shamy once went from deep in CT1 to GK in her 30th.
UPD: my bad, just looked it, and it actualy is in the second quest.
A think I noticed of NC's regard of dwarfs, in dwarf only second provesion quests the main targets are light and deep blue mobs: now my dwarfy is 37 and i'm doing first and second quests and mobs I'm hunting are lvls 24, 25, 27, 29, 30, 31 and such. i guess this is what NC Soft thinks dwarfs are capable of.
For comparasing here are mobs other races have to hunt:
-Humans: lvl 13 and 18 (to spawn an higher lvl mob), 34, 35, 36, 39 40. There are some realy deep blue, but mostly are green-whitees with 1 yellow.
-Elfs: 35, 36, 32, 39, 40, here again we see greens to yellows, same as humans.
-Dark Elfs: choice of 29-35, 35-36, 34, 39, 40, could be done on green to yelows, but has a choice of dark blue too.
-Orks: 40, 35, 36, choice of 40-45, 41-42.
All information here taken from Stratic (both quests and mob lvls), and it is not fully completed because I didnt found some of the quest monsters. All the quest I looked at are pure racial quest, the second quests for all rases and first quest for dwarfs, since first quest for dwarfs is also racial.
You should have done the BH quest in C2 when you had to go second lvl of Cruma past the lvl 50ish mobs...not once but twice. I rember doing it with a group of lvl 50 players on the C2 test server and having a complete party wipe.
Or in prelude the Artisan quest...you had to go to the very bottom of the mith mines to find the Ratman Leader Teeth.
The WarSmith quests were some of the funnest I have done in the game, without a guide and the little sticky on the map we have now in prelude it was a blast figuring out where the Eye was in the Orc dungeon. Then there were the King Bugbears that spawned when you teleported on the time machine...I regret not killing them but they went nuts and were killing low lvl players left and right that were in the area.
You should have done the BH quest in C2 when you had to go second lvl of Cruma past the lvl 50ish mobs...not once but twice. I rember doing it with a group of lvl 50 players on the C2 test server and having a complete party wipe.
been there, done that, only ont in C2 but C1, went with clanies or jsut a friendly party. One friend of mine run there after a server was brought down, b4 everything respawned.
And still look at the patern: other rases moderate hardnes mobs, dwarfs green to deep blue and blood red in C1-C2 got changed to yellow-pinks in C3. NC cant decide on their expectations toward dwarf, going from lowered to extreemly high.