What were the changes to seed sales and crop purchases exactly?
Manors are just starting to come up on Sieghardt after the siege weekend and the first impression I get is that the buyback has been greatly reduced.
I don't know if the manors that I have looked at are running at 100% but they are definitely not buying what they did before. For instance, Aden used to by about 2250 Great Codran in C3 and this is now down to 995.
Have the amounts that castles can buy back been cut by THAT much?
Anyway, if a castle holder can answer that one it'd be much appreciated.
If the amounts have been slashed, what's the rationale behind that NCNA? Could you give Korea a ring and ask them why they did it?
If this is the case, do you not realise that you are making it even harder for legitimate players to user the manor? Those "players" that use automated characters to turn in their crops were hard enough to beat with C3 buyback, how do you expect us to do it in C4 if YOU do not remove the offenders?
The new C4 manor interface rules, only one problem with it thoght, thers no way in hell we can beat automatic programs with it, thats aobut it thoght. Befor it was 'somewhat' doable but not anymore.
Secondly yes teh buyback crops amonth is greatly reduced, I'm to lazy to pick up all changes but example Chilly cobol
Befor it was 53xx ( forgot the last 2 digits ^^ ) now it's 2800 per day. And yes I know this is max as I'm curently taking care of Heine castle manor on Lionna.
the new manor interface is great ... once you get used to it and learn where everything is, sure it will take some fiddling around for about 5 mins to learn where everything is, but after that i really like the interface and the easy way it is to turn in fruits.
As for how the changes really affect the systems i cant say yet, there are not really that much setup yet on Teon.
I especially like the chance of turning in crops in another town. Turned some Gludio stuff in at Giran manor. Ye, the manor guy takes a 5% fee for it but imho thats worth the running/porting :)
The new interface also is, atleast for me, alot easier to use and what I've seen of the new castle ones, same goes for them too. Heard also that the lord can now manufacture multiple items at once by typing in the number of items he wants. Hated the clickety clicking of C3 where you had to do hundreds of potions 1 at a time.
I especially like the chance of turning in crops in another town. Turned some Gludio stuff in at Giran manor. Ye, the manor guy takes a 5% fee for it but imho thats worth the running/porting :)
The new interface also is, atleast for me, alot easier to use and what I've seen of the new castle ones, same goes for them too. Heard also that the lord can now manufacture multiple items at once by typing in the number of items he wants. Hated the clickety clicking of C3 where you had to do hundreds of potions 1 at a time.
Yeah and he takes that 5% in adena cash from your pocket rather than off the fruit that you turn in so I though that was cool.
As for the Manor reduction, Gludio Manor was greatly increased with the addition of Patriot's Necro which gave us more seeds to sell, but yes some of our buy backs were reduced so we couldn't get as many back as we could before. But the new Castle Lord interface is so much more hlepful now, in telling you where you've made mistakes in going beyond the boundaries, rather than the simple "will not compute" we were getting before.
So thanks NCSoft for both the player and manor lord interfaces they work much better than before, although some on this thread are right, it becomes more difficult to beat a 3rd-party software that can click those buttons in a row just that much quicker... Too bad I can't drag them down into my hotbar and make a macro for it. Hehe...
I meant in terms of trying to beat bots (there I said it, bots, bots, bots, bots, bots) when turning in crops. You used to be able to have a window open ready to sell your crop back whilst refreshing another window that showed the buyback status. When you saw the buyback change, it was an adrenaline filled moment trying to hit the button and see yellow text, meaning you had beaten the bots. This does not now seem possible.
I find the reduction in buyback amounts quite astounding. Not only does it mean that the bots will corner the manor market on all the popular seeds, but it also means that those automated groups that farm base materials will now have even more of a market for their ill-gotten gains.
At least a player had a chance (if he could manage to turn some crops in) of getting some base materials out of the manor. You have now greatly reduced that chance leaving people with the only option of buying these materials from the bot shops, if they need them in any quantity.
I am truly astounded at the idiocy of this change. The buyback amounts needed to be tripled in order to give legit players a chance of using the manor (castle owners permitting). Instead you cut the amount. Absolutely ridiculous.
Well done NCSoft...............AGAIN!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:
Edit: Judging by the increased buyback over seed sale, it would only take about 2 years to clear the backlog of fruits that are sitting in peoples warehouses. That's if they could actually get to turn them in.
I heard a rumour (and I stress the word "rumour") that the amount of seeds/crops that you can buy is based on the castle lords wealth.
Could anyone at NCNA confirm or deny this? While you are at it, could you possibly tell us how much the buybacks have been reduced by, particularly for the popular seeds (any that give bone, CBP, varnish, coal or charcoal). I used to do the manor a LOT and now it seems that it won't be worth my while if I can't turn any crops in.
Thanks in anticipation (false maybe) of a reply from NCNA.
I am part owner of Innandril on Gustin, at least I handle the manor.
YEah the buyback was beaten with the nerf stick so badly you could hardly even call it a buyback anymore. Our top end seeds, the new one's for the lvl 70 ish player.. we can only buy like 400 of those back per night.
It does take less fruits to make an item, so for the manor lord it's not the end of the world, we still end up doing alright on the manor.. but for the seed farmer it just plain ole sucks.
Oh well, another amendment to the game that suits bots over legit players.
:confused: :mad: :confused: :mad:
you pretty much hit the nail on the head.
Lemme give you another great example.. a party of 5 players in their upper 60's, low 70's can go into Saints and easily get the full buyback for our top TWO seeds within about 4 hrs.
That's not a whole lot of crops to go around there..
Lemme give you another great example.. a party of 5 players in their upper 60's, low 70's can go into Saints and easily get the full buyback for our top TWO seeds within about 4 hrs.
That's not a whole lot of crops to go around there..
You have 12 seed types, not only 2. Also you have alternative seeds that makes farmer work dozen times lager.
By the way, in C3 one was able to fill one manor system seed/crop type in few hours yet alone. Fortunately it was fixed at least partially in C4.
I love the changes to the Manor Interface, both for the Lord Lord and for the person doing the sowing/harvesting.
At Innadril some of the higher items must still be made 1 at a time, but you can keep clicking on the manufacture button instead of going through menu trees, so it's still way easier than in c3. Other items such as the potions can be made in large quantities (if you have the fruits to do so) in just one click. It's definitely better.
I don't understand all of the buttons on the interface yet and it would be nice if there were a bit more of a tutorial instead of requiring a try and see approach... I'm hoping Choch will write an updated tutorial.
The interface changes I could learn to live with but the slashed crop buyback is a ridiculous decision, in my opinion.
Let a manor lord sell as much as he likes and buy back as much as he likes. Just have some kind of correlation between the two that stops a lord just selling seeds without buying crops back.
And put something in that allows for the fact that a single seed can give 3, 4, 5 or even 6 seeds. It looks like a manor system can buy back roughly 110% of the seeds that it sells. How does that satisfy a 400% increase of crops gained to seeds sown?
We are so often told that it is player reponsibility to police so much in the servers so give the players the ability to influence the economy a bit more and prevent those that cheat from cornering the market in certain materials.
i dont know how to trade the cobols to items with the new interface, can anyone tell me pls how to do it? :confused:
On my server, I have only gotten it to work in Giran and Dion (I know it does not work in Aden, the rest are unknown.) Clicking on 'Tally up Indigenous Product' brings up a long screen, listing all the crops you have in your inventory. If the quantities other than your inventory are not zero, you can double click the crop you wish to sell, or click the 'sales' button at lower right.
This brings up a second box, which may have a listing of manors buying that crop as well as the reward type and adena value (this box is blank in Aden, even tho they have non-zero buybacks available in the Manor Status screen.) You have to select the manor you wish to sell to and manually enter your quantity to be sold. At this point, varying things can happen. In Giran, the items were converted when I clicked the box next to the quantity; in Dion, it looked like nothing happened until I clicked some other little box on that screen, then the crops were sold.
I haven't not thought of a way to pre-set the sale screen and click as soon as the Manor resets. That was how it was at least possible to beat 'players' who have super-human click speed before. Now.. I'm just not sure I can beat them.
Let a manor lord sell as much as he likes and buy back as much as he likes. Just have some kind of correlation between the two that stops a lord just selling seeds without buying crops back.
It would be good... Well, too good. And then we'll moan about missed possibilities again :)
We are so often told that it is player reponsibility to police so much in the servers so give the players the ability to influence the economy a bit more and prevent those that cheat from cornering the market in certain materials.
Yes, it's players responsibility :) We are forced to another bottleneck in the system just to compete. Don't you think the system with castle for every clan might police castle sieges. But still we do them and all the stuff around it.
Game is not supposed to satisfy everyone. And manor lord generally plays against people. You as manor lord can sell 1 crop per day if you want. And viola - problem with excessive number of crops will be solved (once in a future). But you wanna make money out of seeds, don't you? You are greedy lord :P And seed farmers are greedy people, they buy all seeds you give them hopin they'll make crops and sell them back.
There's no solution - greed is stronger than people :P And it will ruin any system :P
There is most definitely a solution to the problem of selling your crops.
Amend the buyback so that it requires human intervention. Displaying one of those images with a slightly difficult to read number (such as many website forums have when you attempt to create accounts) as part of the crop selling process would bypass the automated players and give us humans a start. The player needs to read that number and enter it as part of the transaction of selling crops.
Your example of castles in a moot point as castle sieges do not support automated players.
And I'm sure you weren't directing it at me specifically but I am not a castle lord. I am a user of the manor system who wouldn't mind having a slim chance of getting some of the more popular base materials out of the manor. I don't mind competing with other players but I had little hope of beating the bots before, now I have none.
In the last 4 months or so the only time I have been able to get bones out of the manor system was on Chinese New Year. I find that very coincidental in a supposed NA game.
As for the buyback margin, how can a 1.1:1 buyback to seed ratio ever support a 4:1 (and upwards) crop to seed ratio?
The system was severely flawed before. This update has done nothing to address those flaws but has made it even easier for bots to corner the market on base materials. :mad:
I don't care about bots, to be honest. Concurrency is high enough even without bots. And it was intended to be so :(
By the way, I have not witnessed any bot on manor, to be honest. Hard to get it on sight, yes. But also... many people in my clan made their crops sold in few seconds - without bots and all illegal stuff. Just a desire, status refresh and quick fingers...
I don't know how one person can do it now, but it's not that impossible if you play in team. even with new interface.
Amend the buyback so that it requires human intervention. Displaying one of those images with a slightly difficult to read number (such as many website forums have when you attempt to create accounts) as part of the crop selling process would bypass the automated players and give us humans a start. The player needs to read that number and enter it as part of the transaction of selling crops.
Unfortunatly, you are not alone. This suggestion was raised many many times. There are only two things people don't take into account, though...
First, game doesn't provide free image transfers like this. You load small images here and there, but they are all reffered as some sort of index. That is, some sort of number, in digital form, not image itself. So it is not so hard for bot developers to learn indexes and make them distinguishable automatically.
Second, the image system doesn't work that well :( Most registrations that provide images are only the basic level of protection. I've read few articles about image recognition. One of them showed well working image recognition system for your suggested protection "removal".
And I have no doubt bot writers have enough qualification to avoid just another annoying addition. After all, GG is not a problem for them :(
As for the buyback margin, how can a 1.1:1 buyback to seed ratio ever support a 4:1 (and upwards) crop to seed ratio?
The system was severely flawed before. This update has done nothing to address those flaws but has made it even easier for bots to corner the market on base materials. :mad:
There is a simple fact - seed sales and crop sales are not related to each other. What's the problem if manor lord sells just 1/4 of maximum? No problem at all, apart from greedy behaviour of manor lord.
I don't point fingers, I'm in charge of clan manor myself (I'm saying what to sell, buy and for what price).
But the harsh truth is - the only way to fight limits is making some sort of sacrifice. The one that will in the end make everyone just a bit happy - in a long run of crop sells.
Some seeds don't sow. Some crops can't be harvested. There is a loss of seeds every time. That's why it's not practical to come back to original system when you get <1 crop per seed. But most manor lords just sell maximum amount of seeds regardless of inability to buy them back later.
Seeds control lies in hands of manor lords. Us, greedy manor lords. :eek: And as far as we do ou work like now, we won't allow players to sell all their crops back.
P.S. I have a brilliant idea in my mind :) Manor week event. I hope you'll support me in suggestion thread ;)
A few corrections:
Chan crests and clan hall shield ones are uploaded into the system and virtually not referred by an index.
Image recognition of text/numbers is not trival at all. Indeed, possible but defintely not trivial, also changing patterns is a fairly easy task.
GG is the paramount of the foolish designer ideas. Nothing that requires simple socket connection can be protection by a client side software and the one who invented that shan't be called a progarmmer... Unability to log off in combat is another (while termination the socket is so easy). But I dont wanna comment on b()ts..
manors is ill designed, that's it.
If anyone wants to send updated production information and anything else that's changed in C4 to [email protected] we'll update our manor information pages.
A few corrections:
Chan crests and clan hall shield ones are uploaded into the system and virtually not referred by an index.
Yes, loaded, but indexed in the end. I've seen few funny screens and have helped few people when they got their crests all messed.
Yes, it's possible to make less trivial system and load dynamically created images, but for sure it will affect server load :(
C2 manor system was good - mostly becuase the bots didn't use it much until the last few months - the manor was working great without the bots/farmers - take it back to C2 status and nerf the bots. When bots started going at it hardcore C3 came out to nerf the rewards. C4 is another nerf of the reward system.
Everything bad about this game revolves around 3rd party useage . . . and the sky is falling :D
I also agree that it's very annoying that legit players are completely cut off from the seeds now - you need at least a few seconds to perform your sales (click "tally up" link, double-click your (one) crop, choose territory, input number or click maximise profit button, push OK, push sales), and those are a few seconds that a bot does not need.
However.
This would be an excellent opportunity to ban bots. Simply ban every account that did not have the required server interaction needed from a live client (steps listed above). If you continue doing this, the manor bots will suffer the same penalties as a live player, giving us a chance to hand in again. ;)
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All the botbotbot aside: the new rewards rock, their quantity does not.
The manor was so good on Devianne until it got swamped by players and botters alike, I could cry looking at it now.
Quick question regarding seeding. I have a (now) level 21 human warrior, and successfully seeded a ton of chilly codas when I was level 20 through level 21 near gludio. When I hit 21, I had to stop seeding the Shield Skeletons and stick with Ruin Imps, Scavenger Bats, and Skeleton Infantry. But it always worked if I did it to those guys, and harvesting always worked too.
Now I'm trying Golden Coda's, and I'm in Oren, trying to use them on Lirein Elders (which are "white" to me at 21), and I fail probably 20% of the time or more seeding them. They're in the range of the seed, as am I... so what's wrong?
The profit on these isn't so great that I can afford all the failures.
Thanks in advance.
I am a newb in L2, played for a month after release, just now coming back. Everything is wildly different.