Will I got a good look at C4. Like what I saw,But. We still have C & D grade weapon an armour in the new areas where we now have lv 70+ mobs. WHY?? It's now time to start selling B an A grade weapon an armour at a reasonable price. Yes we all know that this will put a big dent in what the dwarf are suppose to do, sorry about that dwarfs (bots). They will just have to under price the store price. In turn this just may help us all in getting better gear at a decent price. I am sure that the first people that will respond to this are the bots runners an ebay seller. Come on NC Soft lets get the right gear in the right spot. We want A an B gear in stores now. have fun all in the new C4,i m
What, you mean in shops? They sell C grade anywhere but the lux shop? :eek:
I'm not sure I understand your post, so bear with me, if I'm going off topic. I'm perfectly fine with B grade+ is craft/drop only. The dwarves have been nerfed enough, and it is not unattainable if you're willing to work for it.
And now on topick:
This will also will be hard on many other players. If the prices on B-A gear will be artificialy lowered by puting them in stores the crafters will have to lower their prices for complete products, BUT they will also have to lower prices on bying stores for pats and parts. This making legitimate players sufer (less income from mob drops and manor). And this will mostly affect newer players. For them manor is mostly good way to raise some adena, and higher lvl players often have more of capital to spend on market (buy low sall high).
Indeed, might even be an alt account for that matter. I just love it when people say that dwarves are bots and people who will be against these suggestions are either bot masters or ebayers. Someone please stop me from clicking these threads >.< (the topic does not imply in any way that it would something generally coming from TimeCop/darkbird duo.)
So, crafters(not all are dwarves, some just use their frienly WS to make the actual item) would be hit by this hard since the items they already have would lose their value, the recipes/parts/mats would all lose their value and effectively ruin many months of work for lots of people, great idea, why not just wipe all the stuff and give them 2a per item?
NPC shop prices are way different from the player prices on most parts, materials, recipes and items so changing to an economy where you can get A/B items from NPC shop would kill the market, it would also turn lots of quests obsolete and thus make some places not worth even visiting. Yes, people exp in some places for the quest items.
*waits for all the Warsmiths and Bounty Hunters rush in and gank the thread starter*
I must have missed this part when I read it the first time...
You don't know wtf you're talking about. Not every dwarf is a bot or a farmer. I have several dwarves, which I use to make money, and have not ever used a bot program, nor will I ever. MANY real players have dwarves to help gear themselves up. What's with all these people hating on the dwarves lately?? :mad:
Advice: Roll a dwarf, and make an effort to make some money, use the manor system if you don't want to make a dwarf. Or do both, if you have a good manor system on your server.
If they sold B grade+ in NPC shops, we would no longer have a player run economy.
A pity that thread got deleted, I was wondering what he could possibly say to the replies he got. Oh well.
(It was deleted, right? Or am I just being blind?)
Fresh meat:
sorry about that dwarfs (bots)
...
I am sure that the first people that will respond to this are the bots runners an ebay seller.
Swords High vauban!
I refuse to rush to judgement (New Years resolution), so I have read over your post several times as well as the reponses.
I can definitely see your point, and agree on the point that it seems pointless for npc shops in high level areas to sell D grade items.
The post was fairly well composed and you attempted to qualify your position in advance of rebuttal.
After all that my opinion is that you have absolutely no clue how the economy of L2 was designed to work. You have an utter void of respect for legitimate players who have toiled their way to level their dwarves. I further believe that your impatience in terms of playing the game and earning your way allows you to cavalierly cast off the hard work of those who earned their way.
I wholly and sincerely /unsign this suggestion and cast it into the garbage pile of ideas that started with good intent, but whose follow through to a logical conclusion was to difficult to be attempted.
I can definitely see your point, and agree on the point that it seems pointless for npc shops in high level areas to sell D grade items.
I thought about this for a minute, and the only reason I can think of high-level areas selling D-grade equipment (so far) would be for dwarves to crush items for the crystals... I know, it's a stretch. :D But NCSoft has said from the beginning that (aside from the lux shop, and drops) items higher than C grade have to be crafted. So, sorry that L2 is so daunting for new players, but you'll get the hang of it eventually ;)
I can definitely see your point, and agree on the point that it seems pointless for npc shops in high level areas to sell D grade items.
I thought about this for a minute, and the only reason I can think of high-level areas selling D-grade equipment (so far) would be for dwarves to crush items for the crystals... I know, it's a stretch. :D But NCSoft has said from the beginning that (aside from the lux shop, and drops) items higher than C grade have to be crafted. So, sorry that L2 is so daunting for new players, but you'll get the hang of it eventually ;)
You are correct. Also, I think that other high profile games have similiar systems. Meaning that in order to get "the good stuff" you need to either raid for it or get it from players.
In the end, player run economy means player run economy so the economy is the way it is because of us.
I can definitely see your point, and agree on the point that it seems pointless for npc shops in high level areas to sell D grade items.
I thought about this for a minute, and the only reason I can think of high-level areas selling D-grade equipment (so far) would be for dwarves to crush items for the crystals... I know, it's a stretch. :D But NCSoft has said from the beginning that (aside from the lux shop, and drops) items higher than C grade have to be crafted. So, sorry that L2 is so daunting for new players, but you'll get the hang of it eventually ;)
You are correct. And for clarification (vanity) it needs to be noted that while I agree that it SEEMS to be pointless, there are undoubtedly good reasons for their inclusion that may not be immediately apparent.
And now on topick:
This will also will be hard on many other players. If the prices on B-A gear will be artificialy lowered by puting them in stores the crafters will have to lower their prices for complete products, BUT they will also have to lower prices on bying stores for pats and parts. This making legitimate players sufer (less income from mob drops and manor). And this will mostly affect newer players. For them manor is mostly good way to raise some adena, and higher lvl players often have more of capital to spend on market (buy low sall high).
See we arn't alone
The oppsit will happen mat prices will rise because there would be less people ebing to buy top equiment that is affordable less people ebing less mats flooding the market
Dwarves will have to lower prices to sell stuff<but still make obsene profits >
It would be better for us normal no dwarf affiliate players
Btw MAT PRICES ON TEON ARE ALL READY AS LOW AS THEY CAN GET!
The only reason they don't get lower is because npc shops buy them now if npc shops sell a&b and have s drop only the dwarven/eb/b cycle of hyper inflatios would be broken.
And normal <non dwarf non merchant class > us will benifit
But then again the dwarves fbs are in control now and they want to keep the staus quo
darkbird, didn't your thread get deleted the last time you ranted about that? You think, just maybe, it's a sign that you should let it go already? Sheesh.
And yet again, not _ALL_ mat prices are as low as they can get. Lots of them are way higher than they used to be. Crafting requires more than just animal skin, stem and charcoal you know. Thons, Asofe, Enria, Oriharukon ore, Mithril ore, Adamantite nuggets, Duraple Metal Plate(old RMP) and recently thread and suede are all really expensive. Not to mention the steadily up going Stone of Purity. Some very basic mats did get cheaper, but the rarer mats got twice as expensive as before.
And whats with the dwarves again? They're not the only ones selling items there for Gods sake. And crafting items is not making obscene profit, if you'd actually done it yourself you would know.
The oppsit will happen mat prices will rise because
They will not rise because the demend will go down. If you can buy everything from store then what will be the point to bother colecting mats for craft, it will be posible to make much more adena (even for dwarf) while hunting, and also making xp at a same time.
Now mats are needed and many are in short demand (iron going from ~500a up to 800 or sometimes more from october to now, ori going form ~7k to 9-10k), if NPC's will sell B-A equipment then mats will go to a little more then buing NPC price (100a for iron, 1.5k for ori) because the NPC prices for everything are coresponding.
It would be better for us normal no dwarf affiliate players
No it wount, couse you non-dwarwen players are able to manor better then dwarves (better kill speed and and such) and there fore you will get more profit form manor at a given amount on time.
non merchant class
everyone can be a merchant class, it's not ingame restricted. Do you have any crafters in your's clan or just friend's WS who will craft for you for realy cheap/free (by the way dwarwen craft shops already craft for realy cheap compared to recipe's prices they need to buy).
Do you have and friend BH (or jsut random BH) to party with with "random/by turn distribution including spoil", then you will get AS much, or mb more depending on luck as that BH.
Anyone can set up store or get lvl 1 dwarf alt for the sake or extra shop slot to perma stay at Giran.
would be less people ebing to buy top equiment
Highly unlikely, those who cant make a buck now will still be unable to, and those who make living from manor and crafts (not only dwarfs, as i described before) will have a much harder time too. ANd there still will be those who whant to play in "god mood" and have everything given to them on a silver plate.
I kind of agree with this post. It seems like a waiste to have shops in aden and above selling ng and D grade weps. I would like to see C and B grade weps and armor in the shops.
Before you all go crasy. I would limit it to low lvl C and/or B grade. Leave all the mid and high lvl C/B grade weps and armor craft only. Of course A and S will always be craft only.
Will now that i heard from some of you ppl. I'll try to resond to each of you. But you all see bots out there farming an you all know that it a dwarf (bounty) running groups. Sorry but true. ONE BIG THING not all dwarf are bots ok i have two also. SO to your post
bekkar - bring it, bring what?? I have been playing for almost two years. Not saying I'm the best player but I do see an hear what is going on in the game community. You will hear more as you get more playing time in. I hope so
EQ-Quaythescus- I see you must hold a Master Degree in economy. You talk with big words,but your like Bush. You say allot , but you leave us scratching are heads. Do you also listen to Rush? Plus try coming up with an ideal to make the game better. Maybe you should take up being a politician,you sure talk like one.
Champa - I know quite afew ppl that did the same thing as you. All I came say is good going.
Shadowhyn - Not sure what selling A & B items in the new araes has to do with crushing C & D :confused: Also I do know what NC Soft said,BUT people can change there mind.
Sovrath - Not a bad post. Here again can you think of away to make the game better?
Ledaa - Like what you had to say. Hmm maybe up the drop rates. This still could help out the new an old players alike. OOo what new players. I haven't seen a L2 box in a retail store in quite some time. yes yes i know they don't sell them in store anymore. So much for new players. Must move on sry.
Darkbird - Not bad post. Still why would there have to be less income? Up the drop,maybe? Still there nothing wrong with a shake up. It's still agame an will pan out.
Charmille - I have craft an what I craft all goes to my clan or my alts.So yes I do know.For you to say that selling A & B in shop would kill the market? I don't think so.Yes it may ruin it for some ppl.But you have to start somewhere. As for Warsmith an Bounty Hunters rushing in an spaming the threads, will if the shoe fit. Just use you head, like I said - NOT ALL DWARF ARE BOTS. But he who yells just may be
SeamRP1 - Your so mean. lol Someone that know all I see. Someone that can't see what is going on in the game. Get that BRAIN working an just try to come up with away to improve L2. It's what we are trying to do. Just not raging on good peolpe for trying. But them again i see it is much easier to fault someone then to try to come up with something. Another Master Degree i c
Champa - hmmm another smart one i see.You to should look past you on noise.Don't know how many time I try the manor. Only to get back an see the the castle owners don't keep up with it. So ya I tried it, done it, an hate it.It's just a tool for castle owners to keep bots an farmers around there cities. If you play awhile you know this. I just don't think you would get it . Also I don't know Darkbird or timcap. But they must be at least trying to make the game better cause all you can say . Get of the weed lmao
Eriot - sry but where did I say that every Dwarf is a bot. You just took it that way. So where is your big ideal to help the game out. OPPS you do have one :eek:
Will i know this will not make you all happy. I can see that some of you. That all you can do is put players down,. Good for you cause I quess you have to be good in something.
So see you all an gl in gaming I WILL hahaha :cool:
Can't say that I get it. Sure it doesn't really make sense that shop-NPCs at higher level places sell NG-/D-grade.
But to have them start selling high C, B and onward.. I dunno really. It would screw everybody who's ever been in B-grade and actually had to work for it. It would just break the economy even more. I like the economic situation as it is, it has you on your toes looking out for market changes and whats hot or not. It's like a game inside the game.
And I have never gotten more satisfaction from a gear-switch then I've received when I got into B-grade, knowing I made the effort to get it. Sure it's a lot of work, but it's fun ^^. It's not impossible to be a new player, we've all been new players. We all grinded and farmed our [censored] off to get whatever we got now, excluding those who break the EULA of course (which is another subject altogether). Having gear for your grade doesnt equal ebay, far from it.
bekkar - bring it, bring what?? I have been playing for almost two years. Not saying I'm the best player but I do see an hear what is going on in the game community. You will hear more as you get more playing time in. I hope so
Maybe reading isn't your strong suit. In the post you're attempting to respond to, I included this quote from your original post:
sorry about that dwarfs (bots)
...
I am sure that the first people that will respond to this are the bots runners an ebay seller.
...we recently had a poster (under two names) who was claiming that dwarves are bots and that everyone who disagrees with him must be a cheater. Things aren't going so well for him*, and if you want to pick up where he left off, then go for it. The board's all warmed up for it now.
*the racial slurs didn't help
Edit: might as well mention...
EQ-Quaythescus- I see you must hold a Master Degree in economy. You talk with big words,but your like Bush. You say allot , but you leave us scratching are heads. Do you also listen to Rush? Plus try coming up with an ideal to make the game better. Maybe you should take up being a politician,you sure talk like one.
First of all, discussion of politics is not appropriate for this board, even the off-topic forum. Don't do that again. Second, and perhaps more importantly, we understood him just fine. You are, in fact, the only one sitting there scratching his head.
The look suits you, I think.
Just so we're clear, I'm not saying that you are incapable of coming up with a good idea. What I am saying is that your implications, insults, and off-topic allusions are putting you on the fast track to a troll's reputation. I will add that this idea is a terrible one, and shows that the player-driven economy is something you do not currently understand. You may wish to research it, so that your next suggestion can be quality material.
My aren't we spoiling for a fight .
Agian i am myself
I am now way related to time cop ;)
Just becuse I agree and suport some of his suggestion & views I am not the same person just as you are not that cat person what's his name.
I have not said all dwarves are bots! or cheaters!
What i do say is dwarves as a class support hyper inflation because it is profitable to them & the people who play the market also support it & Thier dwarf freinds.
Eb/bs <cant say the word or get deleted ;)> are the cause of the problems.
They will never admit to a problem<it's not for them > they like the status quo !\> for crafters and their freinds it means mils of profit /d
Ebs is the source of it btrains is the work horse of it
What I am suggesting & many others is a resonable cap on prices like mats will only drop to npc levle have an upper cap of somthing like 2xmat cost +10% +taxes .
It is good profit wont make any class obsolete and if they can produce it cheaper better then they will sell it.
There will be less incentive to ebay becuase prices will be in reach less ebay less inflation less bots.
Even the castle lords will beinfit from taxes.
So almost all players would benift from A/B/C equiment avable in npc shops.
The only people who lose abit is dwarf crafters <even they will be able to make a profit<not the miillions they get now but a good profit>
But any time anybody even suggess it the dwarves and thier budys scream it will make my class obsolet and call anybody who suggessed it idoit or worse .
Dwarves would still have thier place they would craft for thier clans and fight in seiges.
And don't say dwarves are bad fighters in thier twinked equipment they fight just as well as anybody else ;)
I will add that this idea is a terrible one, and shows that the player-driven economy is something you do not currently understand. You may wish to research it, so that your next suggestion can be quality material.
I know this statement wasn't dirrected at me.
Ok I don't have a crafter or scavy and probly don't pay as much attention to the economy as I should.
But after taking a look at available C and B grade gear in game. I agree there is no way you could put C and B grade in the stores. There is just not enough different types of weps and armor "except C grade swords" to really do this without a serious affect on the economy.
I do think there are enough different types of C grade jewelry that low lvl C grade jewelry could be implemented into the NPC stores. Some of the C grade jewelry I have never seen in game. If it was in NPC shop I would have bought some.
Basically if there were as many different lvls/types of C and B grade weps/armor/B grade jewelry as there are NG and D grade then it might be worth doing.
I don't think it falls under the terrible idea banner, but it would take a bit of game changing to do it.
I am now way related to time cop ;)
Just becuse I agree and suport some of his suggestion & views I am not the same person
Well, let's overview why a person would think you and TimeCop are the same individual, just so it will be on record how such a thing could be claimed... <ul type="square"> You both use parentheticals for emphasis. This is an abuse of the English language that, other than you two, I have never seen. In my entire life, I have only see you two do it. Highly coincidental. You have exactly the same posting style. It's like meeting a complete stranger who has exactly your face--it can happen, but it's a once-in-a-lifetime event, if that. You support his opinions without qualification. You are the only person ever to do this. I can't emphasize enough how rare that is. A minor point: both names are a compound of two common monosyllabic words. Often, a player will use the same naming convention for all his characters, so this is a rather odd coincidence, but not definitive. Neither of you has a clue how the economy works. That, by itself, isn't that uncommon...however you share exactly the same misconceptions, which is extremely uncommon. In fact, I'm still waiting to find anyone who views the game the same way you two see it...anyone? Anyone at all? *echo* If you're neither the same person, nor a close friend, you are in the very least two halves of the same wit. I can't prove which of the three it is...
but...
hmm I dont think the time for this change is now. We just got introduced to S grade. Its too early to ask for NCSOFT to start selling B and A grade in NPC stores. Maybe when we have an assortment of UNIQUE armor in the game that is beyond S grade, this could be possible. But I can understand your pain.
For the most part B grade is pretty cheap, you dont need to have it sold from NPC stores.
A grade is also cheap for the most part. The only thing that is ridiculously high are the "rare" items like the Helm for Majestic Armor going for 100m +. what is up with that? I dont care what your justification is, this is just stupid. 60m for a majestic helm recipe? Just ridiculous. Stuff like this, NCSOFT should step in and regulate it. But otherwise, everything else is pretty cheap and affordable...except for weapons, which for some strange reason I agree should be expensive and have a marked up price. Since after all, technically you can't drop it when you have it equipped.
What i do say is dwarves as a class support hyper inflation because it is profitable to them & the people who play the market also support it & Thier dwarf freinds.
Er, what?
Ok, say I'm a stereotypical uber-rich Dwarf and have enough Adena to buy 20000 coal. Now we got some (hyper-)inflation and suddenly my money can buy just some 19000 coal. It lost value. How is that good for me?
To point that out to you (hopefully) more clearly: Inflation is neither good nor bad. And neither is deflation, for that matter. If you can read and play the market, you can make money (or, more precise: value) out of both. If you can't, both can mean you lose. On the other hand, it doesn't take a Dwarf to play the market, everyone can do it.
If you'd rather not dabble into economics, your best bet is the manor system. Again, everyone can get nice money (or materials for his Artisan and Warsmith friends) out of that, it doesn't take a Dwarf. If you're on Teon, PM me (Akjosch) in game sometime and I'll guide you step by step on how to do it. And if everyone would do it (and we could always get sensible manor setups, of course), your dreaded inflation wouldn't ever happen, simply because there would be enough materials on the market at any given time.
vauban, you seem to be new to the boards and perhaps didnt understand that people usually reply to other posts too in this thread. My reply was to darkbirds post, and it clearly shows if you read both posts and notice the tag in mine saying "reply to darkbird".
Not everyone is talking to you, but fine, now that you adressed me I'll adress you. NPC shop prices for items are way less than the prices for same items on market. Try selling a BoP to a NPC shop. It's just a fraction of what you would get on the market. Now, if the BoP and other B/A-grades would be implemented into the NPC stores, the value of all the existing B/A-grades would drop significantly since their value in a player driven economy is alot more than it's in NPC stores. Get it? All the equipment _every_ B/A-grader has would lose its value. And since people then could buy the items from NPCs, the players would need to sell the items at even lower prices, thus never getting the adena they invested into them back. You pay 30mil for BoP and next week you see a BoP for 5mil in NPC store, good game eh? You just wasted 25mil and feel that you got royally screwed.
Who would want to craft items that require hours and hours of work if they only produced 20k profit? The materials would still be as hard to get as they are now, so supply would soon overrun demand big time and cause all material prices to drop. This would screw all the people using manor - alot of people do use them, if you cant use it, it's your problem, dont ruin the fun for others - and also the income of the Bounty Hunters. Also, getting equipment would become alot harder on some classes, since if you dont raise adena drops significantly, there is no way some classes could make a profit while exping, unless they form 9man no-ss parties and grind adena for hours.
The economy is player driven, introducing alot of the now craftable items into NPC shops would severely effect the economy since then only S-grade would be something that WSs would craft. People dont craft D-grades that they can buy in shops, they dont craft C-grades that they can get from Lux shops and the same would happen to B/A-grades if they are put into NPC stores. Why bother crafting when you can just walk to a NPC, click the item and pay a few adena more than the crafting cost would be. This would make recipes, key materials and Warmisths obsolete to some extent and thus ruin a great deal of the gameplay. Also, some of the quests would become obsolete, since why would someone grind for hours to get the quest items for random A-recipe if he can just buy the item from a shop?
Bad idea that would only take content away from the game.
No i dont have a big ideal how to make the economy better in this game, and i dont need to becouse i like it the way it is. I love that we have a player based economy, sure im poor like hell most of the time but i dont want to change it becouse of that.
This is more or less the only game on the market that has that advantage and that is one of the big reasons why i play this game atm. And i am a firm beliver that it would ruin the economy if they sold B/A grade eq in the stores. We have the best player based economy i have ever experienced during my 10-12 years of online gaming.
No i know that you didnt say that all dwarfs are bots im just fed up with people inplying it all the time.
I am now way related to time cop ;)
Just becuse I agree and suport some of his suggestion & views I am not the same person
Well, let's overview why a person would think you and TimeCop are the same individual, just so it will be on record how such a thing could be claimed... <ul type="square"> You both use parentheticals for emphasis. This is an abuse of the English language that, other than you two, I have never seen. In my entire life, I have only see you two do it. Highly coincidental. You have exactly the same posting style. It's like meeting a complete stranger who has exactly your face--it can happen, but it's a once-in-a-lifetime event, if that. You support his opinions without qualification. You are the only person ever to do this. I can't emphasize enough how rare that is. A minor point: both names are a compound of two common monosyllabic words. Often, a player will use the same naming convention for all his characters, so this is a rather odd coincidence, but not definitive. Neither of you has a clue how the economy works. That, by itself, isn't that uncommon...however you share exactly the same misconceptions, which is extremely uncommon. In fact, I'm still waiting to find anyone who views the game the same way you two see it...anyone? Anyone at all? *echo* If you're neither the same person, nor a close friend, you are in the very least two halves of the same wit. I can't prove which of the three it is...
but...
Bekkar - it is time like this when good wizdom comes in. Just where is yours??? Here again you have know ideals. Just putting people down again.Plus I like monosyllabic,means short an blunt to the point. Nothing wrong with that . Better than have to use such big words an not really saying anything . So this will be the last thing i will say about you.
I like the ideal about more different style of armour an weapon. As far as it may hurt the one that just got there B grade thing, will you have to start somewhere. I would be in the same boat. O an Darkbird,forget about Bekkar.He is just another verbose talker. That feels he is better then all. But still has he come up with any of his on ideals yet?? I don't see any :confused:
So all in all, more style in B & C grade.
Also here is something to think about. If you go from level 40 to 52 for c grade an 52 to 61 for B grade (like lv46 for C an lv56 for B). Why not have it that you must hit a middle level to get the top grade items. So we have more style an more drops, store will sell from middle grade an down an the dwarf will sell the high grade items. Now I am sure that someone said the same thing . Like I told you all I don't get in here much. I rather be playing the game. But I'm sure that the same ppl that like to shoot player down will do the same an not come up with anything on there own. lol
vauban, you seem to be new to the boards and perhaps didnt understand that people usually reply to other posts too in this thread. My reply was to darkbirds post, and it clearly shows if you read both posts and notice the tag in mine saying "reply to darkbird".
Not everyone is talking to you, but fine, now that you adressed me I'll adress you. NPC shop prices for items are way less than the prices for same items on market. Try selling a BoP to a NPC shop. It's just a fraction of what you would get on the market. Now, if the BoP and other B/A-grades would be implemented into the NPC stores, the value of all the existing B/A-grades would drop significantly since their value in a player driven economy is alot more than it's in NPC stores. Get it? All the equipment _every_ B/A-grader has would lose its value. And since people then could buy the items from NPCs, the players would need to sell the items at even lower prices, thus never getting the adena they invested into them back. You pay 30mil for BoP and next week you see a BoP for 5mil in NPC store, good game eh? You just wasted 25mil and feel that you got royally screwed.
Who would want to craft items that require hours and hours of work if they only produced 20k profit? The materials would still be as hard to get as they are now, so supply would soon overrun demand big time and cause all material prices to drop. This would screw all the people using manor - alot of people do use them, if you cant use it, it's your problem, dont ruin the fun for others - and also the income of the Bounty Hunters. Also, getting equipment would become alot harder on some classes, since if you dont raise adena drops significantly, there is no way some classes could make a profit while exping, unless they form 9man no-ss parties and grind adena for hours.
The economy is player driven, introducing alot of the now craftable items into NPC shops would severely effect the economy since then only S-grade would be something that WSs would craft. People dont craft D-grades that they can buy in shops, they dont craft C-grades that they can get from Lux shops and the same would happen to B/A-grades if they are put into NPC stores. Why bother crafting when you can just walk to a NPC, click the item and pay a few adena more than the crafting cost would be. This would make recipes, key materials and Warmisths obsolete to some extent and thus ruin a great deal of the gameplay. Also, some of the quests would become obsolete, since why would someone grind for hours to get the quest items for random A-recipe if he can just buy the item from a shop?
Bad idea that would only take content away from the game.
I see what your saying an yes i would also get swcrewed. As the manor goes im on kain,that 's all i have to say. So if you look at my last post on B an A grade. haveing a middle of the road leveling ofr different B an A grade items. In still haveing the high end for the Dwarf an the low ends for the stores???? What do you think???
Not all types of Equipment have low and top in every grade. Lets pick the two handed swords, only low B no top B. Only top A, no low A. You would screw over a class that uses exclusively 2handed swords.
For A-grade, DC and Tallum are considered as low and NM/Maj as top. Well then, nukers go for DC so they could buy their "BEST" equipment from shop as opposed to most melees grinding for their equipment. Oh ya, gladiators could get Tallum heavy but thats about it. As long as other classes would benefit from it more than others, it is not a workable solution. For D/C-grade every class can have the equivalent "second to top" equipment, which enchanted with SAs and overenchanted turn into better items for some(homu +OE +Acu anyone? Good for B/A-grade unlike any other C-grade weapons really.)
Changing the system would A. effect the economy greatly. B. give an unfair advantage to some classes since their preffered equipment is "low" on that grade. C. make some of the quests totally obsolete. D. make warsmiths less usefull as the items they could craft for profit would be less.
Also, I think having C+ items being purchasable from NPCs would do nothing to deter botters and ebayers, and possibly encourage them. All selling those items would do would cause the player driven economy to suffer an enormous recession; items that were newly NPC purchasable would be incredibly de-valued, while the items that weren't in NPC shops would become incredibly more expensive.
Think about it this way (numbers just an example, btw): A full-plate set goes for 6mil. A BW heavy breastplate/gaiters goes for 6mil. Player A could trade the FP set to Player B for the BW pieces as a personal upgrade. Suddenly, NPCs sell FP for 3.5mil. Now, Player A has to trade the FP + adena (a possible justification for buying adena, btw) to achieve the same trade as before the NPC shop changes.
Bekkar - it is time like this when good wizdom comes in. Just where is yours??? Here again you have know ideals. Just putting people down again.Plus I like monosyllabic,means short an blunt to the point. Nothing wrong with that . Better than have to use such big words an not really saying anything . So this will be the last thing i will say about you.
Unless you are either darkbird or TimeCop, that entire post had nothing whatsoever to do with you. Didn't you read what _Charmille_ just explained to you? It was:
vauban, you seem to be new to the boards and perhaps didnt understand that people usually reply to other posts too in this thread. My reply was to darkbirds post, and it clearly shows if you read both posts and notice the tag in mine saying "reply to darkbird".
...and I'm sorry if my words are too big for you, nobody else seems to have a problem with them *eyeroll*
O an Darkbird,forget about Bekkar.He is just another verbose talker. That feels he is better then all. But still has he come up with any of his on ideals yet?? I don't see any :confused:
Only because you're too dense to utilize the search function. I've added suggestions, input, crititiques, etc hundreds of times (and, just to spell it out, that requires my "on ideals" :)).
Also, I think having C+ items being purchasable from NPCs would do nothing to deter botters and ebayers, and possibly encourage them. All selling those items would do would cause the player driven economy to suffer an enormous recession; items that were newly NPC purchasable would be incredibly de-valued, while the items that weren't in NPC shops would become incredibly more expensive.
Think about it this way (numbers just an example, btw): A full-plate set goes for 6mil. A BW heavy breastplate/gaiters goes for 6mil. Player A could trade the FP set to Player B for the BW pieces as a personal upgrade. Suddenly, NPCs sell FP for 3.5mil. Now, Player A has to trade the FP + adena (a possible justification for buying adena, btw) to achieve the same trade as before the NPC shop changes.
Definitely /unsigned.
They would have ebayed to get the Full Plate at 6m in the first place with your assumption.
There should be a price difference between Top C and Top B. The championed player driven economy fails once the players outlevel a certain section of gear making it unattainable for the players that are levelling up after the majority of the server.
Don't get me wrong.. I'm not in favor of them adding shops with top gear though either. I think they should remove the drop penalties from dark blue mobs so upper levels can compensate for demand by hunting lower level mobs at low risk and reaping that profit rather then having to try to reroll.
If they let high levels hunt dark blue mobs there would be no issues with rare brig helms/manticore boots/full plate/etc because many of the higher levels would go back to grind the mobs for almost no xp but a good adena return.
I play the market...my method doesn't need a dwarf, I have 60m now(not counting armors and crap I have on me in my wh's), and my highest character is 41....that and I have a near full set of armor for him (Can't find the boots =( ) as well as several weapons for him. It is really not so hard to figure out ways to make money in this **** game. It takes WORK, and I like that...go play WoW or GuildWars for handouts. It is not impossible Just use your brain...for example, take the time you wasted complaining on these forums, you could of been thinking how to make money.
**How to make some money, for [censored]*
In fact I will give one to you. Buy and sell D Crystals. Fairly simple on my server...buy them for 500~550a then resell for 630~650a...that adds up to a nice sum eventually:10k crystals resold=about 1.3m PROFIT.
I just dont like it when people make suggestions that would kill the game for half the players. Player driven Market, Crafting and Economy. Only reason NG and D grade weapons are in the shop is for the new players. After the Lux shop is worthless to you, its time to make friends, gather materials and make your own things. Or, you find a way to make money so you can buy them from players. Its not that hard.
Personally, now that it is possible to make all these potions and dyes using Common Craft, i think they should take them out of the normal shops. Give people another way to take control of the economy and make more money for themselves. Putting higher grade weapons at set prices in certain area's takes away another money making tool for normal players. I say we keep adding ways to make money instead.
...Think about it this way (numbers just an example, btw): A full-plate set goes for 6mil. A BW heavy breastplate/gaiters goes for 6mil. Player A could trade the FP set to Player B for the BW pieces as a personal upgrade. Suddenly, NPCs sell FP for 3.5mil. Now, Player A has to trade the FP + adena (a possible justification for buying adena, btw) to achieve the same trade as before the NPC shop changes.
Definitely /unsigned.
They would have ebayed to get the Full Plate at 6m in the first place with your assumption.
There should be a price difference between Top C and Top B...
Not to sound arguementative (I did like your suggestion about the dark blue mobs), but I did say FP set to trade for BW breastplate/gaiters. Not the BW set. Just a clarification to an admittedly very loose numbers example: the point was to emphasize the impact the de-valuing of items would have on players ;)
I think its a good idea and could lower the market prices a lot but we should make it so all d all but top C and low B grade can be bought in stores and having a WS that gets half a million everytime I craft a kris I would be hurt a bit by this happening but I think its needed.
...Think about it this way (numbers just an example, btw): A full-plate set goes for 6mil. A BW heavy breastplate/gaiters goes for 6mil. Player A could trade the FP set to Player B for the BW pieces as a personal upgrade. Suddenly, NPCs sell FP for 3.5mil. Now, Player A has to trade the FP + adena (a possible justification for buying adena, btw) to achieve the same trade as before the NPC shop changes.
Definitely /unsigned.
They would have ebayed to get the Full Plate at 6m in the first place with your assumption.
There should be a price difference between Top C and Top B...
Not to sound arguementative (I did like your suggestion about the dark blue mobs), but I did say FP set to trade for BW breastplate/gaiters. Not the BW set. Just a clarification to an admittedly very loose numbers example: the point was to emphasize the impact the de-valuing of items would have on players ;)
Ok sorry that sounds a bit more fair since back when I was in FP it was going for 4m and Blue Wolf was going for 20m... kinda dating myself there.
I was going to say that if BW Top/Bottom was selling for the same price as FP Top/Bottom that there was an obvious problem in the supply of materials.
But yeah... removing the penalty on dark blue mob drops fixes the problem. People can go hunt what they need and it lowers the cost of collection (since higher levels don't need to use consumables to hunt dark blue mobs normally). They could even just lower adena drops but leave the item/material drops alone and it would fix the problem.
I dont remember which said the Crystalization of equipment but i think that person nailled it completly. I duno about you guys but having to move from Rune all the way bck to aden/oren/giran to get Csytalls is very far. Now we dont have to..
I would also like to add on top of that, that couldnt it be possible that as the Chronicles releases new equipment Grades that some of the older ones, like complete C n B would eventually fine its self into NPC stores...
Wouldnt that make sence that perhaps, thats the direction its guna take.. Its nothing to do with economics but more of a easier way of aquirering these items, lets not forgot that the population moves higher in lvls every chronicle, so perhaps a shift in the sale stores for C & B equipment will be done at some point in the future...
To me, it seems like NCsoft might want to do that at some point, where like 75-80% of all players will eventually be all in the A grade n up range, then the market might have to shift the goods to the NPC stores.... Like a recylcing center of some sorts... same thing with a Grade when we are all in....
Just a thought, but dont be to quick to dismiss it, we are going into that shift and we will all get there soon enuff....lol
Helldereth, here's the thing--equipment generally drops around a grade or two lower than the monsters you're fighting. Thus, if everyone is in B/A grades, like you're proposing, then C/B grades will be more available due to monster-killing. It won't be any sort of shortage, it'll be a surplus. No need to add an extra supply of something you have too much of.
Not bad logic, but the drops that actually show up don't match. There will never be a shortage of mid-grade gear, because all those high-levels you're proposing will be getting during normal play.
Helldereth, here's the thing--equipment generally drops around a grade or two lower than the monsters you're fighting. Thus, if everyone is in B/A grades, like you're proposing, then C/B grades will be more available due to monster-killing. It won't be any sort of shortage, it'll be a surplus. No need to add an extra supply of something you have too much of.
Not bad logic, but the drops that actually show up don't match. There will never be a shortage of mid-grade gear, because all those high-levels you're proposing will be getting during normal play.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Last I checked there are no level 60+ mobs that will drop C grade gear. Its all B grade drops.
I'm not saying I support his idea. I think the removing the item/material drop penalty from lower level mobs works much cleaner and keeps the economy focused on the players but level 60+ mobs don't drop C grade gear. The C grade drops seemed to disappear in the mid-50's.
So once everyone is level 70 (now that they've added A and S grade drops). Set completing C and D items are already pretty rare because there are so few people hunting the mobs that drop the parts.
Will I got a good look at C4. Like what I saw,But. We still have C & D grade weapon an armour in the new areas where we now have lv 70+ mobs. WHY?? It's now time to start selling B an A grade weapon an armour at a reasonable price. Yes we all know that this will put a big dent in what the dwarf are suppose to do, sorry about that dwarfs (bots). They will just have to under price the store price. In turn this just may help us all in getting better gear at a decent price. I am sure that the first people that will respond to this are the bots runners an ebay seller. Come on NC Soft lets get the right gear in the right spot. We want A an B gear in stores now. have fun all in the new C4,i m
Helldereth, here's the thing--equipment generally drops around a grade or two lower than the monsters you're fighting. Thus, if everyone is in B/A grades, like you're proposing, then C/B grades will be more available due to monster-killing. It won't be any sort of shortage, it'll be a surplus. No need to add an extra supply of something you have too much of.
Not bad logic, but the drops that actually show up don't match. There will never be a shortage of mid-grade gear, because all those high-levels you're proposing will be getting during normal play.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Last I checked there are no level 60+ mobs that will drop C grade gear. Its all B grade drops.
I'm not saying I support his idea. I think the removing the item/material drop penalty from lower level mobs works much cleaner and keeps the economy focused on the players but level 60+ mobs don't drop C grade gear. The C grade drops seemed to disappear in the mid-50's.
So once everyone is level 70 (now that they've added A and S grade drops). Set completing C and D items are already pretty rare because there are so few people hunting the mobs that drop the parts.
Weapons are not a problem - by using the luxury shop and the blacksmith of mammon you can get top C grade weapons. But top armor is not as 'easy'.
Will now that i heard from some of you ppl. I'll try to resond to each of you. But you all see bots out there farming an you all know that it a dwarf (bounty) running groups. Sorry but true. ONE BIG THING not all dwarf are bots ok i have two also. SO to your post
bekkar - bring it, bring what?? I have been playing for almost two years. Not saying I'm the best player but I do see an hear what is going on in the game community. You will hear more as you get more playing time in. I hope so
EQ-Quaythescus- I see you must hold a Master Degree in economy. You talk with big words,but your like Bush. You say allot , but you leave us scratching are heads. Do you also listen to Rush? Plus try coming up with an ideal to make the game better. Maybe you should take up being a politician,you sure talk like one.
Champa - I know quite afew ppl that did the same thing as you. All I came say is good going.
Shadowhyn - Not sure what selling A & B items in the new araes has to do with crushing C & D :confused: Also I do know what NC Soft said,BUT people can change there mind.
Sovrath - Not a bad post. Here again can you think of away to make the game better?
Ledaa - Like what you had to say. Hmm maybe up the drop rates. This still could help out the new an old players alike. OOo what new players. I haven't seen a L2 box in a retail store in quite some time. yes yes i know they don't sell them in store anymore. So much for new players. Must move on sry.
Darkbird - Not bad post. Still why would there have to be less income? Up the drop,maybe? Still there nothing wrong with a shake up. It's still agame an will pan out.
Charmille - I have craft an what I craft all goes to my clan or my alts.So yes I do know.For you to say that selling A & B in shop would kill the market? I don't think so.Yes it may ruin it for some ppl.But you have to start somewhere. As for Warsmith an Bounty Hunters rushing in an spaming the threads, will if the shoe fit. Just use you head, like I said - NOT ALL DWARF ARE BOTS. But he who yells just may be
SeamRP1 - Your so mean. lol Someone that know all I see. Someone that can't see what is going on in the game. Get that BRAIN working an just try to come up with away to improve L2. It's what we are trying to do. Just not raging on good peolpe for trying. But them again i see it is much easier to fault someone then to try to come up with something. Another Master Degree i c
Champa - hmmm another smart one i see.You to should look past you on noise.Don't know how many time I try the manor. Only to get back an see the the castle owners don't keep up with it. So ya I tried it, done it, an hate it.It's just a tool for castle owners to keep bots an farmers around there cities. If you play awhile you know this. I just don't think you would get it . Also I don't know Darkbird or timcap. But they must be at least trying to make the game better cause all you can say . Get of the weed lmao
Eriot - sry but where did I say that every Dwarf is a bot. You just took it that way. So where is your big ideal to help the game out. OPPS you do have one :eek:
Will i know this will not make you all happy. I can see that some of you. That all you can do is put players down,. Good for you cause I quess you have to be good in something.
So see you all an gl in gaming I WILL hahaha :cool:
I see alot of your comments about asking people how to make the game better? by better, do you mean easier?
My aren't we spoiling for a fight .
Agian i am myself
I am now way related to time cop ;)
Just becuse I agree and suport some of his suggestion & views I am not the same person just as you are not that cat person what's his name.
I have not said all dwarves are bots! or cheaters!
What i do say is dwarves as a class support hyper inflation because it is profitable to them & the people who play the market also support it & Thier dwarf freinds.
Eb/bs <cant say the word or get deleted ;)> are the cause of the problems.
They will never admit to a problem<it's not for them > they like the status quo !\> for crafters and their freinds it means mils of profit /d
Ebs is the source of it btrains is the work horse of it
What I am suggesting & many others is a resonable cap on prices like mats will only drop to npc levle have an upper cap of somthing like 2xmat cost +10% +taxes .
It is good profit wont make any class obsolete and if they can produce it cheaper better then they will sell it.
There will be less incentive to ebay becuase prices will be in reach less ebay less inflation less bots.
Even the castle lords will beinfit from taxes.
So almost all players would benift from A/B/C equiment avable in npc shops.
The only people who lose abit is dwarf crafters <even they will be able to make a profit<not the miillions they get now but a good profit>
But any time anybody even suggess it the dwarves and thier budys scream it will make my class obsolet and call anybody who suggessed it idoit or worse .
Dwarves would still have thier place they would craft for thier clans and fight in seiges.
And don't say dwarves are bad fighters in thier twinked equipment they fight just as well as anybody else ;)
I see what you're saying. What you really want is someone to put all of the things that you want to play with in shops so that you can purchase them without effort.
But what you need is a Bounty Hunter and a Warsmith - I have one of each, I have the equipment that I need. IF you really want the equipment that you so desire then you need to spend a few MONTHS leveling up those two classes or PAY the price that people as asking for their efforts.
Perhaps you should check with support and make a suggestion regarding your concerns.
Helldereth, here's the thing--equipment generally drops around a grade or two lower than the monsters you're fighting. Thus, if everyone is in B/A grades, like you're proposing, then C/B grades will be more available due to monster-killing. It won't be any sort of shortage, it'll be a surplus. No need to add an extra supply of something you have too much of.
Not bad logic, but the drops that actually show up don't match. There will never be a shortage of mid-grade gear, because all those high-levels you're proposing will be getting during normal play.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Last I checked there are no level 60+ mobs that will drop C grade gear. Its all B grade drops.
I'm not saying I support his idea. I think the removing the item/material drop penalty from lower level mobs works much cleaner and keeps the economy focused on the players but level 60+ mobs don't drop C grade gear. The C grade drops seemed to disappear in the mid-50's.
So once everyone is level 70 (now that they've added A and S grade drops). Set completing C and D items are already pretty rare because there are so few people hunting the mobs that drop the parts.
Weapons are not a problem - by using the luxury shop and the blacksmith of mammon you can get top C grade weapons. But top armor is not as 'easy'.
I have no idea where you're going with your comment. Yes, you can get C grade weapons fairly easily. I'm referring to armor and set pieces which currently sell for such high prices that they reserves them for ebayers and rerolls. Is that how the game should be perceived by a new player?
So once everyone is level 70 (now that they've added A and S grade drops). Set completing C and D items are already pretty rare because there are so few people hunting the mobs that drop the parts.
That worries me alot, and what i mean is that a new player that joins around the time that 80-90% of the populus as reached A grade an above status, these guys will be having a very hard time geting there hands on the C/b stuff.
So wont that make it extreally costly for them... And if so, could it not discurage them from continuing to play.. Im just thinking that once we are there, extra measures (like NPC seiling c/b grade stuff) would be required...
EQ-Quaythescus- I see you must hold a Master Degree in economy. You talk with big words,but your like Bush. You say allot , but you leave us scratching are heads. Do you also listen to Rush? Plus try coming up with an ideal to make the game better. Maybe you should take up being a politician,you sure talk like one.
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I don't hold a Masters degree, a Bachelors degree or even an Associates degree. I do however, understand basic ecomic factors which is where we apparently part ways.
While I find it cute that you are applying canned, MTV/CNN cloned anti-Bush rhetoric because it is popular with the "hip" crowd (that stare like deer caught in the headlights once you ask them to explain and give examples in actual context that support such DNC talking points material), that doesn't make a single point either in defense of your position or in rebuttal to my reply. While this is not the board to hold a political debate, I encourage you to visit the Off Topic board at www.arktic.net/forum (http://www.arktic.net/forum) and we'll see just how deep your political savvy runs below a chant at an REM concert.
Your request of ME to come up with an idea to make the game better has 2 inherent flaws. The first of which is that I have made suggestions on these boards. You would have to simply be industrious enough to actually research that, but it appears that you have neither the time or desire to research that subject, or the subject of this topic. The second inherent flaw is that your way of backpedaling against sincere debate of your idea is to completely abandon your idea as the focus of the discussion and divert attention to the debator as though they are in some way obligated to match your knack or propensity for making "suggestions." The topic here is not "how many game suggestions have you made?" The topic here is YOUR particular suggestion. Whether or not someone else has, or even wants to make a game suggestion of their own has absolutely no relevance to the validity of their opinion of the suggestion you volunteered.
You are left scratching your head as you have already admitted. Others here are not. Perhaps it is your lack of comprehension that drives your cognitive shortfallings, your political rhetoric spewing and the flawed basis behind the idea you presented in this topic. By the way, would you vote for me?
It is clear that you are unable to accept that not everyone agrees with your opinions. Now I hope that doesn't discourage you from making suggestions. That is how positive change begins, afterall. However, if it is your intention to resort to unfounded, diversionary and irrelevant rantings at everyone who disagrees with your opinions, you've got a tough road ahead of you.
Yeah well, good luck with that.
Don't forget to stop over at my boards and school this uneducated guy in politics.
And in turn would make leveling for low levels harder, since every high level there is could hunt and hoard low level mobs wich they could tear apart at no risk. No, removing the deep blue penalty won't help much. Remember way back when you could farm deep blues for adena at no risk? And what pain it was to find a good place to grind?
And in turn would make leveling for low levels harder, since every high level there is could hunt and hoard low level mobs wich they could tear apart at no risk. No, removing the deep blue penalty won't help much. Remember way back when you could farm deep blues for adena at no risk? And what pain it was to find a good place to grind?
Having played since open beta... no I don't remember a time when there was no deep blue penalty. Maybe I just wasn't aware of it but there's always been a penalty as far as I can tell.
And I don't know how many high levels would go back to grind on mobs for no xp unless they really wanted the cash. As it stands if you lose your gear and have no assistance then you might as well quit since you'll have no way of fighting mobs to earn anything back.
I think you're making a boogeyman which wouldn't really exist out of this. No one would go back to farm keltirs for their sweet drops.
And now on topick:
This will also will be hard on many other players. If the prices on B-A gear will be artificialy lowered by puting them in stores the crafters will have to lower their prices for complete products, BUT they will also have to lower prices on bying stores for pats and parts. This making legitimate players sufer (less income from mob drops and manor). And this will mostly affect newer players. For them manor is mostly good way to raise some adena, and higher lvl players often have more of capital to spend on market (buy low sall high).
See we arn't alone
The oppsit will happen mat prices will rise because there would be less people ebing to buy top equiment that is affordable less people ebing less mats flooding the market
Dwarves will have to lower prices to sell stuff<but still make obsene profits >
It would be better for us normal no dwarf affiliate players
Btw MAT PRICES ON TEON ARE ALL READY AS LOW AS THEY CAN GET!
The only reason they don't get lower is because npc shops buy them now if npc shops sell a&b and have s drop only the dwarven/eb/b cycle of hyper inflatios would be broken.
And normal <non dwarf non merchant class > us will benifit
But then again the dwarves fbs are in control now and they want to keep the staus quo
.. whoa and back up there..a} not all dwarves are rich; b} wherever in any gods worlds do you think dwarves make 'obscene' profits? c} if you think the prices in any server are unreasonable, DON'T BUY until it does become what you think is reasonable. often the cost that you are paying for any grade item generally, barely, recovers the cost of the materials, including the time to craft said materials and the item(s) itself. and if you would like to craft an item- then YOU gather the materials, and parts, and peices. Then find a friendly crafter with the recipe in their book and ask them to open a shop for you to make YOUR ITEM (please do not forget to ask the nearest friendly healer to recharge them when you are finished). then go and sell it yourself. Time to stop ranting on the dwarves. You had several choices available to you when you are creating characters, just because you don't want to play a dwarf - STOP KNOCKING THEM! or you may find that you may have to have someone else do your buying for you. (we have the right to refuse service to anyone - just as you have the right to buy elsewhere.)