Oh yeah, I'm sure their great to party with, great for making OTHER people feel uber with all their little buffs (most of which are useless). But noone wants to play one because they are boring as hell and their skills are terrible. No armor mastery? LMAO. Easily one of the worse classes in the game.
Oh yeah, I'm sure their great to party with, great for making OTHER people feel uber with all their little buffs (most of which are useless). But noone wants to play one because they are boring as hell and their skills are terrible. No armor mastery? LMAO. Easily one of the worse classes in the game.
BD's dont get armor masterys after 40 either. Put a bow in a Swordsingers hands with there own buffs, and they can kite any class in the game, or, use a two handed sword and they crit almost as hard as some Destroyers I know.
It is to bad they arnt played by to many people though, i can play one when i feel like it and its fun as hell.
Sounds like people think they are a great class...for someone else to play. All they are is an uber gimped prophet or something. But as long as people get another colored little square on their screen they are happy I guess. I've partied with a SWS before. It was ok, bladedancer is better though.
And for someone saying they can own with a bow in pvp, lmao. Sorry, if you don't have special attacks you ain't owning anything in PvP I don't care what sorry buffs you got.
And for someone saying they can own with a bow in pvp, lmao. Sorry, if you don't have special attacks you ain't owning anything in PvP I don't care what sorry buffs you got.
Ever fight a Tyrant with a BOP before?
And like i said, ive played a SWS, i like them.
Go into a PvP Without Song of Wind and the M Def song, and then do it again with those, it makes a huge diffrence. I'll probably Sub one if i ever get there lol
The SwS is designed for people who enjoy being a part of a group, who enjoy as their primary function, to boost the ability of the party they are in.
If you are the sort who prefers to solo or even duo and chose the character because (somewhow) you thought the SwS looked cool in his armor, and assumed that because he looked cool, he cut a path of destruction through the realm, then I can understand your utter (and imho, misguided) disappointment in the class.
Luckily for you there are a lot of other classes that you can elect to play. I hear Necros are very popular these days.
LMAO, I didn't choose gimp SWS. I'm an uber glad. I was just looking over the skill list for SWS and couldn't believe how terrible they are. They barely have any just a few decent songs and thats it . Once ppl in your party are buffed you are just a big gimp and can't do anything special. Terrible class clearly even worse than orc destroyer.
LMAO, I didn't choose gimp SWS. I'm an uber glad. I was just looking over the skill list for SWS and couldn't believe how terrible they are. They barely have any just a few decent songs and thats it . Once ppl in your party are buffed you are just a big gimp and can't do anything special. Terrible class clearly even worse than orc destroyer.
PVP group with sws VS PVP group without
Group with sws wins everytime, as long as the sws is good and chooses the right songs for the fight, and knows how to keep them up.
You know, I'm really surprised a gladiator going into pvp wouldn't want 30% more HP, or faster run speed, or more pdef, or more mdef, or higher crit rate or... you sure you're playing L2?
Theorycraft for the uninitiated; is discussing about wich combination of terran units could defeat a horde of protoss carriers: an exercise in delusion, infatuation and a general waste of time. No ammount of theorycrafted units can defeat a horde of Protoss Carriers. EVER. Even less if there are a couple of Protoss Arbiters tailing the Carriers.
And all you have to do is attack move.. sad day for gameplay balance.
Wich is the equivalent of Lineagecraft: Theorizing wich jewel/armor/class/buffed combination could give melee a fighting chance against an idiot Spellcaster armed with Bsps. :mad:
A glad down-talks the one class that can make him last at least a little longer?
I love the destroyer comment, possibly the most frightening class to run into during non-ranged pvp. Like having one walk right into where you are hunting while he has a bow equipped. Have CP pots? It doesn't matter! x_x
LMAO, I didn't choose gimp SWS. I'm an uber glad. I was just looking over the skill list for SWS and couldn't believe how terrible they are. They barely have any just a few decent songs and thats it . Once ppl in your party are buffed you are just a big gimp and can't do anything special. Terrible class clearly even worse than orc destroyer.
Your definition of gimped just covered a few other classes as well:
Warcryers, Overlords (who are even more gimp because they can't even buff the party unless they're in the alliance), Prophets, Bladedancers
You've just described what its like to be a Support Class that provides buffs as their primary duty. On their own they're not exactly formidible but they significantly increase the utility of others. So if you mean gimped as in low in personal glory... I would agree but they're hardly disposable.
Melee DD's... now those are disposable. A good warcryer/overlord/sws/bd can toss on some heavy and stand in front of mobs as well as a gladiator or a destroyer as far as damage mitigation.
LMAO, I didn't choose gimp SWS. I'm an uber glad. I was just looking over the skill list for SWS and couldn't believe how terrible they are. They barely have any just a few decent songs and thats it . Once ppl in your party are buffed you are just a big gimp and can't do anything special. Terrible class clearly even worse than orc destroyer.
lmao at gladiators...
u are prolly lvl 42 tops... in 5 lvls you will get owned by a mage 20 lvls higher than you... (glads and mages tend to hate eachother for some reason) you will then go to suggestions forums and cry nerf... when people realise you were 20 lvls lower they will make fun of you... this will give you hope so you will lvl to 65... at this point a lvl 75 mage will kill you... again you will come on the forums and cry nerf... again people will laugh once they know the lvl difference... finally someday you will hit lvl 78... and a lvl 45 necro will /gloom /para /socialdance and you will come on the forums and cry until u finally quit... this is the noble path that every uber-glad takes... be prepared for it.
So let me get this straight... a guy who looked at the skill list and never played a class is telling the people who have played it that, despite their months of experience to the contrary, they suck?
Dont forget that he is also calling the biggest melee damage dealer as crappy, and worse than a Gladi. Not to mention that in his books you need to have specials in order to kill actually something.
Frenzy+Rage+Bow = 1 shot robes, 2 shot gladis. Have fun with no Song of Vitality, no Song of Earth, no Song Of Warding. You most likely take Zerk in pvp still? SWS > Gladi any day for group pvp, after all, Gladi is slow, does only mediocre dmg and can take only mediocre dmg...not to mention that a Gladi will be out of MP after a few of those so highly valued specials.
Where's Taraza, he could prolly explain to this guy what SwS is really about ;)
Before I start my rant, I just want to say, this is one helluva troll thread.
Now that I've got that out of the way, here's my response. :p Right now, the swordsinger is second most important PVP class in this game, right after healers. BDs are important for sure, but without crits, the crit power that a BD provides won't be used to its fullest potential.
When it comes to melee classes, the crit is all that is important. Swordsingers increase the crit rate of melee classes significantly. With only prophet bufs, a swordsinger and and dagger can clear a room on 8th by themselves.
If you're going up against a known magic using foe, a swordsinger can stack two extra mdef defensive bufs with other mdef bufs. A swordsinger self buffed can bring to bear about the best possible magic defense capable in this game. Granted, it's a rare situation when you know you're going to fight a water/fire/wind/dark casting enemy, but when that happens, you can stack an mdef buf, protection from (element), song of warding, song of (invocation/stormguard/fireguard/waterguard) to practically immunise yourself and your party versus a kind of magic. All those bufs stacked on top of each other will make your party take about 1/4 the normal damage of a nuke from that element.
The problem lies not in the class, but in game mechanics. Thanks to the song/dance nerf in C3, it's no longer possible to keep up more than 5 or so dances for any length of time. In c2, you could have Fire/Fury/Warrior stacked with Earth/Warding/Hunter/<insert 4th song here: wind/*guard/water/vitality> and still be fine. Now? Not so much.
Even with that nerf, having earth/hunter or warding/hunter or wind/hunter up while xping is required for high level melee xp parties, especially when coupled with a BD. Having a swordsinger is essential for any pvp group, and basically mandatory for an archer party.
A swordsinger with a focus sword or a bow will crit at an extremely high rate, making their low strength unimportant, and that's all that matters.
Look, I'm not saying their buffs aren't nice to have but noone in their right mind would want to play one. You press like 2 buttons for songs, isn't 2 songs the max you can do? Then there is nothing else to do. Other support classes like heals and BD's havw some other skills they can do and the same for the orc OL and WC they have other skills that they can use. All SWS does is dance then autoattack until the songs run out. It's the most boring class in the game and so it sucks. Just because the buffs are nice doesn't mean the class doesn't suck.
Swordsingers are awesome, only problem is that in Lineage 2, offense is better than defense...so Blade Dancer is even more better to have. Seriously, what's one of the first people you look for in a group, its a blade dancer.
This is not saying that SWS is a bad class though, as most people know, they really can't take other classes down...they are entirely support classes.
Look, I'm not saying their buffs aren't nice to have but noone in their right mind would want to play one. You press like 2 buttons for songs, isn't 2 songs the max you can do? Then there is nothing else to do. Other support classes like heals and BD's havw some other skills they can do and the same for the orc OL and WC they have other skills that they can use. All SWS does is dance then autoattack until the songs run out. It's the most boring class in the game and so it sucks. Just because the buffs are nice doesn't mean the class doesn't suck.
well u might have something if you think they wouldn't be fn to play, but seriously... check out the temp knight skill list...
For pvp SwS > BD if there is one available that has all the high end songs. Dance of Fury, Dance of Fire and Dance of Warrior are all nice for pve and pvp, but Earth, Warding and Vitality beat em for pvp.
SwS with a bow can take many classes out in pvp, Song of Wind+bow and it can kite about all melee classes and with Song of Hunter it will crit alot. SwS vs Gladi, I'd bet on the SwS.
With the advent of an increased number of summoners, their aoe fear is going to be extremely important. Fear lands on summons and works correctly.
A swordsinger doesn't have attack skills, per se, that's true. But neither does a BD. The drain and ice? Annoyances at best. The BD's most important weapon are his dances. The same goes for swordsingers. Their song is their weapon.
Ever seen a BD and SWS go duo? Most amazing thing I ever saw. Each took a bow, and with their self bufs and dances/songs alone, were killing 2x hp mobs with bows before the mob had a chance to reach them.
This is a game not about the individual. It's about the party, the clan, the alliance. It's about your side. Most of the time an individual cannot do things alone (unless you're talking about nukers...but that's another topic altogether.)
The game is designed at the very, VERY basic level to require you to ask other people for help. For example: the infernium ore quest, or the reagents quest. Reagents that you get in TOI mainly work for getting things that solo characters would want, and drops that you can get from soloing generally only make things that heavy armor classes need. The Reagents quest is now the ONLY way to get Nightmare/Majestic heavy armor patterns, and you have to fight lava wyrms. If you've ever tried to farm lava wyrms as a heavy armor class, you've learned the true meaning of pain.
So no, a swordsinger is not a class that can go out and 1 shot someone or win a battle by themselves. They're a class that enables a party, and maybe even an alliance, to turn the tideof a war.
Still, by the OPs logic - why would anyone play a nuker? Since the advent of auto SS, they only have to press ONE button. Well, two if you're overhitting.
Why would anyone play an archer? One button: Assist macro - well, and the ocassional stunshot.
Please.
The SwS can sing (has to decide which songs to sing, too), entangle (one of the most potent slow spells in the game - and I know, because I go to the arena to dance slowed all the time), and when using a bow will crit something silly.
Very true. Hex is very nice and one of the most important dark elf fighter skills. However, it is not a 'win button'; it requires coordination and teamwork to be an effective tool...just like a swordsinger's bufs. :D
I'm not going to turn this into a Gladiator thread, but let me say this, I do plent of DMG thank you very much :mad:
The reason Mages and Gladiators hate eachother so much, is that we can One shot there CP, we hate mages because our Mdef sucks.
To answer the song question, you can have more than 2 up, but heres the thing. In conjunction with a BD, every song/Dance you put up costs more and more MP to cast. So, if you want 4 songs up, you have to alternate
1st. (I dont actually know the numbers) 80
2nd 120
3rd 180
4th 240
Ect. Ect. So they have to be carful how many go up. If they dont regen the amount of MP they use during the Sing/Dance cycle, they have more downtime then most mages.
Wich is the equivalent of Lineagecraft: Theorizing wich jewel/armor/class/buffed combination could give melee a fighting chance against an idiot Spellcaster armed with Bsps. :mad:
Wins for being mostly true. Sadly.
LMAO, I didn't choose gimp SWS. I'm an uber glad.
I think that sort of sums it up pretty well.
I doubt you really are uber if you laugh at the SwS songs while praising BD dances. Either you aren't in the 60 department yet or you partied with really lousy SwS'...
lol, SwS can beat Gladiators and BDs 1v1 most of the time. Low strength doesn't mean they suck. People laugh at me when i hit them for normal damage but once I start to crit them 6 times in a row they begin to worry :). There are even times where my DPS is actually better than other DD classes. In places like Disciples I consistantly crit undead mobs for upwards to 1300 with my sword with Warlock summon buff and I can swing a sword 3 times for every one shot of a SR without QR. That on top of 1100+ pdef, possibility of 9k+ HP, 1100+ mdef, 300+ crit, 750+ atk speed, and the fact they got a shield and a few masteries for it make them a pretty good class. Pull out a bow and you crit equal lvl archers and nukers for a little over 1k, not too shabby. However obviously stats like critical can be wacky and inconsistant so you can't depend on them but SwS are a defensive class. Not to mention songs that cut nuke damage in half. There are only 2 useless songs I can think of: Song of Life (+25% HP Regen) and Song of Water (+3 Evasion). However every other song has a use, most only useful in PvP though. They are also INSANE for tank parties at raids, I have been to many raids where if I wasn't in the tank party the tank would have died. Vitality and Vengeance are simply awesome for raids. Vengeance stacked on Blazing/Freezing skin or Chant of Revenge reflects 1/3 of the damage. Now many raid bosses do roughly 300 damage a swing so that 100 more damage back at them every time they hit the tank. Its not much but over time it will show its worth. Also all the 2 handed sword using SwS need to rethink what they have done. They just turned a class that could defeat archers into a class that cannot. The SLIGHT damage gain from using a 2 handed does not make up for the loss in attack speed and shield. In PvE 2 handed is great and dandy but in PvP a SwS using 2 handed is just pointless, you might as well be using a bow or sword and shield. Shields are so underrated in this game and with EE shield buffs shield users are BEASTS. The difference between using EE shield buffs and not in a 1v1 against a BD was 3K HP. Luck could have been involved as well but thats a huge difference for just 2 buffs that many consider 'useless'.
>>Now many raid bosses do roughly 300 damage a swing so that 100 more damage back at them every time they hit the tank. Its not much but over time it will show its worth.
Raids hit for about 400-800, and reflect is best for keeping aggro.
SWS is without a doubt the worst class to play. Let me explain a few things:
Sws's can't use a bow, they have no range, low accuracy and worst of all, you can't regen mp when you're pumping out arrows. Your buffs will be out in 2 minutes and you have no MP what's gona happen? You'll be wishing you stuck with the useless sword and shield.
I noticed someone said Swordsinger has almost the same patk as a Destroyer with a 2 handed sword... this is the biggest load of crap I've ever seen (unless the destroyer was level 40 and your Sws friend was 75 maybe?). Destroyers have 2 handed sword mastery don't be stupid (not to mention a buffed destroyer can 2 shot sws's).
So you think a Sws can always find a group? Well since nobody wants to play swordsinger you'll find most clans just 2-box or bot them in party so when you're stuck in town saying 'Sws with song of hunter lfg!' for hours on end you'll be wishing that you made an archer and borrowed the clan Sws.
Have you ever tried to solo a sws? Sure they have high mdef but for some reason it doesn't help against magic casting mobs.. So if that's their strength how about their weakness's? Let me start with P.Atk..... How about going 1 vs 1 on an unbuffed DA or gladiator and finding out you barely even scraped their CP after 5 minutes of slashing away? This is the only time being a bowsinger might help, 1 vs 1 a Destroyer or Glad and how often does this happen, those classes are useless too.
People assume that because the SWS has song of hunter they should crit almost every time, but swords have a much lower crit rate than daggers or bows... in fact I think the highest crit rate on a sws is like 280 or something (all buffs with focus sword). This means approximately 1/4 of your hits should crit... maybe you should try to level without ss and see yourself having to rest after killing a 2x XP mob equal level. Or maybe if you manage to find a group you can use sword symphony and cause a total party wipeout...
Of course when you post on the forums asking for a boost, or some information about whether there might be a boost or not you'll see about 100 replies from nuker/archer misunderstood genius's who will make sure you realise your place, your place being 'a support class' (which they need as meat for them because they like showing off by killing pvp derelict classes) and SWS's are not mean't to do anything except sing every 2 minutes (because every buffer wants to take a year or so to reach level 75 and have not had even the slightest amount of fun).
Anyone that even mentions swordsinger when I'm around receives a big lecture and the reason is because there are so many rumours going around and people should understand that these rumours are not true.
SWS sucks there is no questioning it. How do I know? I played one day in and day out to level 60 before I realised NCSoft will never unnerf Swordsinger, or probably melee classes altogether (except daggers because they're so popular).
zoidberg, another clueless fool, lol. Crit rate can reach up to 310 with buffs and focus SA. Shield and one handed swords are NOT useless. Most SwS can defeat equal lvl/equipped archers. SwS songs can more than half nuke damage. Vitality can add up to 2500+ HP to some classes. You must be ******ed, I'm sorry but if you HAVE indead played a SwS to lvl 60 and never ralized their strong points then you are incredibly dumb. As far as damage dealing they are VERY comparable to real DDs, however with lack of attack skills. I pull aggro from in parties. I can tank ToI 10 with a group of nukers and keep aggro the entire time (using a bow to start off with 2 shots, then aggression, then sword and shield and start swinging). SwS are really great actually and get better with a Sword Muse title making nukers and archers MUCH more efficient with new songs. an SwS using a bow as their main weapon is ******ED. And btw, with CS on a BoP I can sing and still keep MP perfectly fine. We got crit rate, accuracy, and attack speed to make up for low patk. High patk doesn't mean a **** thing when you miss more often, swing less, and with the fact that SwS crits more often and gets the chance to crit more often due to attack speed and that buffs like Death Whisper and Dance of Fire together probably triple critical damage they aren't that bad at all. In Disciples I crit undead mobs for over 1k damage, we also swing 3 times faster than a archer can shoot not to mention we TANK AND BUFF as well as assist in damage. The fact that you think a SwS can solo just makes me lose any respect for your opinion on them.
zoidberg, another clueless fool, lol. Crit rate can reach up to 310 with buffs and focus SA.
Read my thread [censored], I said something like 280. It's been a while since I played that crap character.
Shield and one handed swords are NOT useless.
When was the last time you pvp'd?
Most SwS can defeat equal lvl/equipped archers
Umm no they can't, why do you think so many people roll out archers... I'm on my 2nd silver ranger now btw.
SwS songs can more than half nuke damage.
Great now you can die in four nukes instead of two. It's a pity that this uber mdef doesn't seem to prevent slow or cancel from working though...
Vitality can add up to 2500+ HP to some classes.
No, it allows for more HP. Don't forget it has to be healed to fill then it disappears after 2 minutes and if you overlap your songs you'll have no mp.
You must be ******ed
Why, because you disagree with me?
I'm sorry but if you HAVE indead played a SwS to lvl 60 and never ralized their strong points then you are incredibly dumb.
Their strong points aren't strong compared to most other classes.
As far as damage dealing they are VERY comparable to real DDs, however with lack of attack skills.
yer, this is why a dagger will finish 4 mobs before you've even killed one.
I pull aggro from in parties. I can tank ToI 10 with a group of nukers and keep aggro the entire time (using a bow to start off with 2 shots, then aggression, then sword and shield and start swinging).
Please record a replay of this, I seriously doubt its efficiency. BTW how much did it cost you to ebay a sword, shield and CS BoP?
SwS are really great actually and get better with a Sword Muse title making nukers and archers MUCH more efficient with new songs. an SwS using a bow as their main weapon is ******ED. And btw, with CS on a BoP I can sing and still keep MP perfectly fine. We got crit rate, accuracy, and attack speed to make up for low patk. High patk doesn't mean a **** thing when you miss more often, swing less, and with the fact that SwS crits more often and gets the chance to crit more often due to attack speed and that buffs like Death Whisper and Dance of Fire together probably triple critical damage they aren't that bad at all. In Disciples I crit undead mobs for over 1k damage, we also swing 3 times faster than a archer can shoot not to mention we TANK AND BUFF as well as assist in damage. The fact that you think a SwS can solo just makes me lose any respect for your opinion on them.
Yep, keep telling yourself this and maybe one day it will come true!
You say you haven't played the class for a while...
Define 'a while'? Like three chronicles or something?
All the points you bring up get refuted by the few SwS I know and those aren't even all in their 70s yet. They are still way better than you make them out to be.
If anyone says 'SwS sucks because it's pvp inefficient' then DOOH. More or less all melee classes are inefficient compared to nukers. So should we start arguments about carrots by complaining how much unlike ham they taste compared to... ham?
Please record a replay of this, I seriously doubt its efficiency. BTW how much did it cost you to ebay a sword, shield and CS BoP?
This proves that when dumb people don't have a valid argument, they resort to silly low blows.
Way to introduce yourself into the community. ;)
You say you haven't played the class for a while...
Define 'a while'? Like three chronicles or something?
All the points you bring up get refuted by the few SwS I know and those aren't even all in their 70s yet. They are still way better than you make them out to be.
Tell me, which points were refuted? Of course a high level sws is going to defend the character he's poured his heart and soul into. Unfortunately I'm a realist.
If anyone says 'SwS sucks because it's pvp inefficient' then DOOH. More or less all melee classes are inefficient compared to nukers. So should we start arguments about carrots by complaining how much unlike ham they taste compared to... ham?
Oh and when the poor SwS is running away from the nuker / archer parties he is supposed to stop and remember, 'it's ok that I die because they are like ham and I'm a carrot. The time it takes for me to gain the experience I'm about to lose is irrelevant.'
This proves that when dumb people don't have a valid argument, they resort to silly low blows.
Way to introduce yourself into the community. ;)
Heh your friend called me a ****** in his post because I voiced my opinion on a public discussion forum. So Dr Phil, where is the logic in this?
I'm lvl 76 with a +3 Damascas, +0 DC armor set, and +3 BoP QR SA and using BO jewelery. I'd have to be one of the worst eBayers ever :). However thats not going to say I don't have loot saved up, I'm REALLY close to getting enough for a DLE. But also realize that I have been in a clan that has owned a castle for MOST of the time I have been playing L2. We owned Giran for a long time and now Innadril forever. Our alliance can raid efficiently and even before the raid farmers we could raid bosses AS A CLAN ONLY, not alliance :). I have been playing SwS since the day this game was released, I have experience. The only archer that I cannot defeat easily is HE because of how insane Snipe is. Since C3 shield now block critical attacks more often than normal attacks, they also crit block. The main advantage of archer's are ability to kite and damage. Damage is softened significantly by shields and they cannot kite someone who is faster than them (unless of course the archer has a SwS with them, then I am screwed in that situation). In 1v1 a SwS just has to do Vitality, self heal, Water, Earth, Hunter, and Wind and entangle their foe. SRs can entangle too but the fact SwS got Wind just matches their speeds up again and archers gotta stop to shoot.
Before I start my rant, I just want to say, this is one helluva troll thread.
Now that I've got that out of the way, here's my response. :p Right now, the swordsinger is second most important PVP class in this game, right after healers. BDs are important for sure, but without crits, the crit power that a BD provides won't be used to its fullest potential.
When it comes to melee classes, the crit is all that is important. Swordsingers increase the crit rate of melee classes significantly. With only prophet bufs, a swordsinger and and dagger can clear a room on 8th by themselves.
If you're going up against a known magic using foe, a swordsinger can stack two extra mdef defensive bufs with other mdef bufs. A swordsinger self buffed can bring to bear about the best possible magic defense capable in this game. Granted, it's a rare situation when you know you're going to fight a water/fire/wind/dark casting enemy, but when that happens, you can stack an mdef buf, protection from (element), song of warding, song of (invocation/stormguard/fireguard/waterguard) to practically immunise yourself and your party versus a kind of magic. All those bufs stacked on top of each other will make your party take about 1/4 the normal damage of a nuke from that element.
The problem lies not in the class, but in game mechanics. Thanks to the song/dance nerf in C3, it's no longer possible to keep up more than 5 or so dances for any length of time. In c2, you could have Fire/Fury/Warrior stacked with Earth/Warding/Hunter/<insert 4th song here: wind/*guard/water/vitality> and still be fine. Now? Not so much.
Even with that nerf, having earth/hunter or warding/hunter or wind/hunter up while xping is required for high level melee xp parties, especially when coupled with a BD. Having a swordsinger is essential for any pvp group, and basically mandatory for an archer party.
A swordsinger with a focus sword or a bow will crit at an extremely high rate, making their low strength unimportant, and that's all that matters.
Listen to this guy because he is right. What you really need to think about is not the direct damage a character does but what additional damage you are doing by being in the group. If a SwS come in and give the group and extra 1000damge per sec then that is effectively his damage cause + his own swings of swords. SwS + archer group is and a pp is a great mage killer squad for a battle field. Archer will run faster, be stronger against magic attacks and also crit more often.
yeah, if a glad atks a necro. and he Tss frist, as long as I land sleep on him frist after Tss, I will win. cause once I sleep I gloom then anchor.
I don't lvl with my summon so the odds are I don't got that extra dmg or protection. a lvl 70 glad's Tss will 1 shot my CP at 61.
Add sws songs to the glad and I'll be lucky to hit for 400+ dmg on him.
SwS got a M df song and a dark atk resist song, at 78 they get a new song for mages, that is great: lowers reuse time, mp consumtion.
geting to 78 isn't easy I know, but the point of the matter is, SwS makes groups alot more formable!
They are a saport class and should be played as such, till your a noblesse and playing in olympiad, then thats a different story.
now as for atk speed and crt dmg is concerned, would it be logical for a SwS to use a Dagger with focus SA...would increase atk speed as well as crt out put and rate. unless his songs are only useible when useing a sword??
I was actully thinking about subing a SwS. but who knows I mite do SR or HE.
the argument over using a dagger on a SwS has been kicked around a lot. I could see using a Crit Damage dagger as good but other than that sword is so much better. Daggers are weak and without dagger masteries SwS just aren't the same with them. Swords have high attack speed and crit rate too, its just that they have a little less than daggers for a trade off of a little more strength and I believe more accuracy as well. SwS can sing with ANY weapon or without a weapon if they feel like it. But the main thing people gotta realize about SwS is that they are a support class ASSISTIVE fighter. Thats not saying they are weak but that they don't exactly specialize in combat but are more nessecary for their buffs. I've had my fill of 1v1 victories but its simply not what the class was meant for.
my point to the dagger was more speed and higher crt since daggers have focus. tho crt dmg is a good SA, I'd not use that in the since that SwS has no dagger masterys, so it's wouldn't help them. (unless in a all dagger group, then it would make since)
SwS, BD, bishop, prophet, WC, SE, EE, WRL, hell even a necro are support classes in partys when it concerns PvE.
my point to the dagger was more speed and higher crt since daggers have focus. tho crt dmg is a good SA, I'd not use that in the since that SwS has no dagger masterys, so it's wouldn't help them. (unless in a all dagger group, then it would make since)
SwS, BD, bishop, prophet, WC, SE, EE, WRL, hell even a necro are support classes in partys when it concerns PvE.
Personally I think Necromancers ARE support classes, but can be played as a nice damage dealer if you have the adena. The best Necromancers in my opinion are the ones that silence and debuff enemies, and tank for mage parties. I know they do nice damage and it shouldn't be ignored but hell BDs can do some nice damage but if he ain't dancing we don't want him, I feel the same about Necromancers. If he isn't Silencing, tanking, or debuffing I don't want him, he's just a fraction of what his class can be.
Why not just use swords with crit dmg instead? :confused:
Anyone who has a specialised weapon mastery and isn't using it is doing something wrong. Including playing the wrong class.
Though I exclude bows from this because bows are ludicrously overpowered, even without having a mastery for it.
My sub is an SWS, only 54 atm but so far I like to assist the group with my very useful songs. With Wind nothing can outrun us, warding and invocation are good defence songs as well, and I simply LOVE hunter, especially since my main is a Saggitarius ^^
Main reason for picking SWS (my 3rd subclass beyond 52 lol, before I decided), was because we sometimes lack SWS', and to level with my clannies' subs, we have a good mix of WC, BD, Tyrant.. simply owns 1-2 rooms in any cata/necro. Pretty decent in pvp as well, high mdef, speed and critrate makes enemies go ouch. Running down SR's with my Tyrant buddy at 200-220 speed is just insanely fun, cripple or entangle and it's one dead archer.
Since C4 (or one of the latest patches) the Lvl 43 "Holy Blade" skill no longer is a passive one for the SWS (contrary to the information in the "Library") but got switched to the active skill list (Cost: 8 MP) and takes up a buff slot like the Prophets "Holy Weapon" Buff.
Another neat little icon in my self-buf macro, if nothing else ;)
Actually, Holy weapon is a toggle, and it doesn't add to your buffbar. Which means it doesn't take up one buff-slot, just like accuracy and vicious stance. Pretty neat that this is hardly noticable on your mp :)
Actually, Holy weapon is a toggle, and it doesn't add to your buffbar. Which means it doesn't take up one buff-slot, just like accuracy and vicious stance. Pretty neat that this is hardly noticable on your mp :)
Yes Holy BLADE is a toggle skill so it DOES NOT take a buff spot and from what I have tested DOES NOT stack on Holy Weapon unfortunately. It ONLY uses MP on activation, after that it makes NO difference. I believe the only reason for this change was because there are mobs that are Sacred attack resistant and making it a passive ability seriously nerfs us. Before the patch I ran into these mobs and I would only crit them for 60 damage with full WC buffs, lol.
Yes Holy BLADE is a toggle skill so it DOES NOT take a buff spot
Indeed. Good for us, and such a nice icon, too - before the change I sometimes forgot I had it as a passive ;)
believe the only reason for this change was because there are mobs that are Sacred attack resistant and making it a passive ability seriously nerfs us.
Sounds like a sensible explanation to me, never been hunting too many sacred attack resistant mobs myself, so it didn`t affect me that harshly.
Btw...wasn`t Holy Blade originally a passive skill for TK`s and Pala`s too?
Yes Holy BLADE is a toggle skill so it DOES NOT take a buff spot
Indeed. Good for us, and such a nice icon, too - before the change I sometimes forgot I had it as a passive ;)
believe the only reason for this change was because there are mobs that are Sacred attack resistant and making it a passive ability seriously nerfs us.
Sounds like a sensible explanation to me, never been hunting too many sacred attack resistant mobs myself, so it didn`t affect me that harshly.
Btw...wasn`t Holy Blade originally a passive skill for TK`s and Pala`s too?
Paladins have BOTH Holy Armor (resist Dark magic) and Holy Blade (sacred element to weapons).