Bishops and EE's are often left out when compared to the SE and I wanted to suggest a couple skills that would give them a comparative edge. there are a couple debuffs that I would like to see a cure to.
Bishops silence cure: Give bishops a spell that removes silence. This skill if given must be put on a bishop only. If this skill if created and given to a mp recharging healer it will make that toon more indemand and overpower a party with such a toon compared to a equal party without a toon that can recharge and do that.
EE root cure: Give EE's a skill that removes hold/root and slow. Hold has to be one of hte lamest skills for pve why because its always cast by mobs that run up and fight you anyways. For AI sake it should be cast by nuker mobs or kiting mobs. Pvp its a whole different ballpark and there should be a class that can remove it.
I wish that the EE and Bishop could also one one skill which would overhit. I am not familiar enough with all classes to know if there are others without overhit abilities, but I do know that most classes have them.
I don't think any of the buffer/healers have overhit skills. But some melee don't either. The only overhit skill my paladin has is powerstrike which I haven't been able to get skill upgrades for since lv 15.
Overhit isn't something the healer types have. Nor is it really something they need in the grand scheme of things. Just let the damage dealers have last hit. It makes them feel worthwhile. :)
Creating new spells to cure root/silence --
Is that a bump up for the healers that get it?
Or is it a nerf to those classes who cast root/silence?
I don't think this is a nerf its more a balance a minor one since you need thsoe classes but still something. First with the root/slow removal skill all this would do is put the fighters back to even par not make the rooted player faster! Those that root mostly are the mages and archers for slowing skills range really won't be hurt overall by the ability to remove these just balanced a bit.
And with more and more nukers appearing the silence spell is one of the most deadly ones a mage can toss out in a mage dual. with a way to remove it now you have more demand for the class that can and a bit of a balance to the overpowerful necros and still high powered SH's
I've heard a clannie made a nice suggestion for bishops: when we die the target who kills it has a high chance to get silenced. this makes a healer a not so juicy target for the start of the fight and actually let us do our job.
And then every melee DD would be sent after you, or archers would target you. Silence is only effective against nukers and healers, doesnt in any way interfere with physical skills ;)
Fine for me, killing a bishop silences you :)
Like the other ideas too, would even things out a lil bit, not really a nerf to mages but a boost to healers.
I think EE's and bishops need something too, but with all the freaking heals we get (bishops anyway) like greater healer, greater group heal, greater battle heal, restore life, vitalize, balance life... whatever it is.. DON'T MAKE IT A HEAL. Ha ha
Although we might beg for one, healers would be stepping too far out of line to be getting any DDing skills. Sooooo... some obscure suggestions:
--An insanely fast and cheap self-heal. Why should your opponents target you first when you can heal yourself faster than they can deal damage? ;)
--Fake heals. Why actually heal someone when you can pretend just pretend to heal them? Or perhaps an actual heal that heals the person you have targeted, but makes it looks like you've healed someone else in your group. Weird but disorienting in player conflicts and in PvP.
--Mob heals. These heals allow you to lose the aggro of mobs you have you have drawn aggression to. After all, if I were an angry, rabid mob bent on killing a certain player, I'd at least be thankful if they started suddenly healing me. Crazy stuff.
--A debuff that completely stops other players from being directly HP healed-- (assuming it lands), unless that player is being healed with a cure spell (which would undo the effect of the debuff).
Of course these suggestions are all just for fun and probably wouldn't be taken seriously, due to their either basic uselessness or destruction of other game elements :D
would certainly like to see a little more balance among healer classes, not sure if a cure for root or silence would disrupt or help more... root cure perhaps, since root/hold spells are casted by lets see... monsters, healers... and orc mages? right? if it had a long cooldown it would hardly hurt the orc, who is all aoe, and since really only healers besides that can use it why not a countermeasure for thier own skill :P silence removal would have to have an iffy land rate i think, since in pvp it takes a long time to recharge... from what i hear anyway, never played a class with silence myself, perhaps a 60% land rate with a medium/long cooldown? so silence still has a purpose on the field, just not as much of a threat if you have one of the valued healers along
Why what's wrong with that? SE's have buffs and good heals that make them wanted in just about every type of party there is. Now it's EE and bishops turn to bask in the orange shout chat of "LF BISHOP READY TO GO!!" "GROUP LF EE!!!"
think you can steal groups from a se?
at 70+ even spellsingers have near 0 downtime with a se
seriously nukers kill way to fast we need to at least pretend downtime is a balance issue even though its near non-existant
mp vr is like a smack in the face for any class who has to hit a mob 20+ times taking 1/4 hp damage from a mob that gives equal xp to a 2 hitting mage with nearly no downtime
question still remains what can we give the gimp healers?
Slow/root cure would be nice.And it would not cripple healers because root dont land through Mental Aegis anyway and there is no slow resist.And its annoying when 35 lvl mob lands slow on you or some one in your group when running to Martyrs.
Slow/root cure would be nice.And it would not cripple healers because root dont land through Mental Aegis anyway and there is no slow resist.And its annoying when 35 lvl mob lands slow on you or some one in your group when running to Martyrs.
So because root "don't land through Mental Aegis anyway", you think it would be good to have even more classes who can heal root (apart from ES) when it finally DOES go through MA, and thereby making the SE's/Prophet's only defensive skill completely useless? There *is* already a skill against root/silence. It is called, yep exactly, mental aegis. Why have a skill which makes root practically impossible to land and then add a cure to root on top of that? One skill against root/silence is enough.
Last time I checked, Bishops got really nice upgrades with BoA and Prayer while EE and SE got their last halfway nice upgrade with Wild Magic. If anybody needs an upgrade, it is the EE, best would be via some kind of buff desirable for parties. Bishops are fine as they are, their heals and res rock. Don't ask for offensive skills, it is not in your job description.
And btw I do not understand why people still consider SE as overpowered. All our unique skills (vr, empower) got taken away by now and handed to other classes, and we suck as healers in PvP. Yes, we're good at duoing with nukers, and we're needed in nuker groups for emp, but that's about it. In fact, it is enough to drag along a lvl 52 out of party SE just to buff emp and then log off again. Heck they even gave the "nuker improvement" lvl 78 prophecy skill to the EE instead of us :)
Everyone always talks about these uber heals of bishops, but they are hardly better then SE heals, especially at higher levels, besides the fact we can cast somewhat faster (wich is easily compensatable with accumen SA's). I'd take EMP over prayer any other day.
emp does almost the same as prayer does, but only the caster needs the buff. prayer costs 200+ mana and fills a buffslot in the whole party (theres enough times in parties they don't even want prayer because there simply isn't enough room for it)
ps: prayer upgrade 2 and 3 is a joke, it adds 2x 15 hp to your heals... be sure you don't make it too overpowered NC! :eek:
I think it would be wise to let bishops and EE's be more focused on full 9 man parties, and SE's on smaller parties and duo's, but at the moment SE's can fill any party they want and manage as only healer.
That's exactly right too, empower works like prayer but doesn't take up a valuable buff slot on the entire party. On the PTS I was comparing a 76 cardinal with a 76 shillen saint and the two greater heals they both get were almost identical, with the card having prayer up and the SS having empower up. There really should be a noticable difference between the two seeing that bishops get a few more levels of greater heals than a SE.
And rezzes, who cares about that. I've had people rather wait dead for a BREZ than take my rez (I'm 68, in BW, with +4 wit tats). Heck I've even had people wait dead for a higher level bishop to show up than take mine. So as nice as our rezzes are, apparently they aren't nice enough.
The only thing I'm grateful for so far in C4 is that a lot of the higher level areas require a good deal of healing. Bishop healing. So as much massive envy as I have for SE's, I don't think they will be able to be a sole healer any more in areas like forge of the gods, imperial tomb, etc.
What about some sort of "Group Recharge" for the EEs? Since they don't get Greater Group Heal, this sort of Greater MP heal might be nice.
It would of course cost more mp than Recharge (the way Group Heal costs more than Heal) and do slightly less MP per cast than normal Recharge, but for all party members (again, like the way Group Heal gives slightly less HP than Heal).
And I agree, Bishops have enough going for them already (BoA, Prayer, and the awesome rezes). It's the EEs that need more love.
wow those of you complaining about SE needing something if EE and Bishops get something are obviously greedy or don't play the game. SE are the healer/buffer everyone wants with good heals and VR they are better then everyone else.
For comparision EE's have good heals and good rez's but lame buffs and no purify making them unwanted in many places where mobs para. So bad buffs and no purify=2 negatives
Bishops have the best heals and the best rez's but horrible buffs and no mp regen. bad buffs and no regen = 2 negatives
SE has good buffs good heals purify and mp regen but has poor rez's Bad rez equals 1 negative
Do you not see the simple fact that SE's are better off then the rest. Now I know I oculd have taken PR into account but thats only a worst case scenario and doesn't come up nearly as often as the rest of them unless you hunt a lot in places that are beyond your ability.
Bottom line is look at groups shouting LF healer especially mage parties and see what classes they are asking for bet you its not EE or a Bishop
Personally I'd rather take a 75-80% rez than spend 850k on a brez. Bishop/EE rezzes are very valuable to me, and I would be absolutely extatic if I had a good rez. (I'm not asking for one, I know SEs are good, but I wouldn't complain if I got it ;) )
Bottom line is look at groups shouting LF healer especially mage parties and see what classes they are asking for bet you its not EE or a Bishop
Well, duh. SEs are the best for mages - but I could see a mage party take an SE AND an EE.. But I'm of the belief, that archer parties would probably rather take a prophet and an EE or Bish.
That's exactly right too, empower works like prayer but doesn't take up a valuable buff slot on the entire party. On the PTS I was comparing a 76 cardinal with a 76 shillen saint and the two greater heals they both get were almost identical, with the card having prayer up and the SS having empower up. There really should be a noticable difference between the two seeing that bishops get a few more levels of greater heals than a SE.
o.O You sure about that? I could swear that the difference between my heals WITH a bishop and prayer 3 in party and WITHOUT is something like 150hp per heal. I would not call that insignificant. Have to check that later in game when I meet my clannie bishop. When we both have emp and prayer, the difference between my greater heal and his is about 40-50hp, due to him having four levels more in greater heal.
wow those of you complaining about SE needing something if EE and Bishops get something are obviously greedy or don't play the game.
I did not say anything about SE needing something new. I just pointed out that Bishops are OK and that they should stop whining. EE need something for sure.
Sylv make sure you have both the same grade weapons :)
I know for a fact prayer 2 and 3 add an insanely low amount of hp to your heals, when I got prayer 2 both my new heal levels and prayer 2 added 30 more hp compared to my lvl 68 skillset, this should indicate there is something not right about it, as prayer 1 adds almost 100 hp. On pts I tried prayer 3 and it added another 15 or so heals... I mean come on, mobs hit me for 300/400 dmg, who the hell gives a rats *** about 15 hp :/
Please give my EE something...SE's have Purify but EE who specialize "more" in white magic don't and we only get Greater Heal not even a Greater Battle Heal or Greater Group Heal. I do 3 buffs in a group if we have room, Bless Shield, Agility and Resist Shock. Our alliance is fairly small but we have at least 1 or 2 SwS, BD, Prophet, SE and EE. In a party with one of each, i buff maybe 1-2 things which isnt so bad because I usually get stuck with healing duties but in a non full party its kinda rough when everyone is complaining about not having haste, guidance, vr, emp or something. I need some **** unique skill... And DO NOT tell me that insta party recall makes me unique. Its an ok skill that people play up so **** much!
i think you guys need to check out the new areas
where i hunt 99% of mobs bleed and the land rate on a -4 con dorf is about 90%
if you think anyone will party anything other than an se you are wrong
i got resist bleed (cant remember buff name) from an ee and lasted about 5 mins before i was bled
purify isnt a luxuary its essential
start by giving ee's that
I know I'm getting shouted and kicked at, suggesting something like this, but here it goes:
To serve better roleplay purposes AND balance Elders (SE/EE) ratio, I'd suggest that GGH gets transferred from SE to EE. Note, transferred, not copied, as that makes Bishop healing mastery more nonexistant.
It serves roleplay nature because elves are being seen as light and restore magic users whereas dark elves dark and destructive magic users. Why the heck dark magic user (SE) were given 2 greater heals to begin with - and most purest healer (not skillmastery/hard practice wise, but inborn abilty) healertype (EE) was given only one?
Secondly, it'd sure boost up EE playerbase, whereas Bishop to some extent as well because SE would get less powerhouse and slightly less desired (although those two buffs still would keep SE running most desired).
I can see Bishops balanced well (skillwise) and thus I don't see any reason to add Bishop skills, but it is just SE being most desired eats Bishop desirability.
I will never understand why SE's got two greater heals and the EE didn't. Group heal compliments VR very well, not sure they they should have gotten both.
Healing is all really bishops have going for them though, we have no clever little tricks like PR2. It's not so much that I'm unhappy with my skills, rather that I'm wicked jealous of how much MORE the SE can do.
Summoned pets already have those abilities so do't gimp them by giving them to healers.
Healers do need something better, so I suggest:
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- Heal crits. Nukes and attacks can crit, why not heals?
- Ability to over enchant heals for power. Why cant they?
- Ability to over enchant heals for range.
- A Bishop buff that lowers phy/magic crit damage by a lot
- A EE buff that lowers damage recieved from DEs
- A SE buff that lowers damage recieved from LEs
Yes, this is also geared to put some balance between sad melee classes and ranged classes. Should work out well.