Ok, the nerf on Aura Flare is so heavy that is pretty useless to use it on PvP. I now that spamming it WAS no good at all, but as i said, the nerf was too heavy, here is my opinion, make it as it is now but with more 50% power. It'll prevent the spamming but will give the caster a chance to survive against meele encounters.
I know that this is what most non-mages classes wanted, I know that most of you will come saying "get what daggers got in c2->c3" or these kind of comments. But remember that Cancel is greatly nerfed and it's OK with it. The way it is now there's no point in using AF in PvP anymore, there's no big difference between as it is now or being removed from the game.
Spamming AF to pvp an armored melee that is in your face is lame.
IM(ns)**, Nukers should lay some serious smack down at a dustance, but when we get caught we should pay a price. We should rely on a balanced mix of party members to help us survive since L2 is clan/party based anyway.
1v1 is an amusing endeavor but should not be what the game is about. If you ARE in a 1v1 situation against a melee, then a nuker should have to rely on terrain, landscape and other intangibles like any other class.
I still keep AF on my hotbar. It does help in a pinch. But I am glad that nukers are no longer nuke/nuke/af/af/af/af/af/af/win against everyone but another mage or an archer (or OL).
Spamming AF to pvp an armored melee that is in your face is lame.
IM(ns)**, Nukers should lay some serious smack down at a dustance, but when we get caught we should pay a price. We should rely on a balanced mix of party members to help us survive since L2 is clan/party based anyway.
1v1 is an amusing endeavor but should not be what the game is about. If you ARE in a 1v1 situation against a melee, then a nuker should have to rely on terrain, landscape and other intangibles like any other class.
I still keep AF on my hotbar. It does help in a pinch. But I am glad that nukers are no longer nuke/nuke/af/af/af/af/af/af/win against everyone but another mage or an archer (or OL).
I agree with EQ on this one.
And I think that mages are fine without Aura Flare in pvp. You can cast fast enough so that it doesn't matter.
edit: in addition, My aura flare is useless and I never needed it in pvp.
Ill just get right to what you were expecting and say "take what daggers got in C3" AF is not meant to be a main nuke and not meant to mean insta win ifa Melee gets close its meant to bea last ditch effort to live and honestly ifa melee catches up to you he deserves to have the upper hand not be on par witha person in robes anda little sword or staff. He should rip them apart kinda like nukers do when they got distance on us? I mean it would be fair to say that we deserve a fair chance then at range like your asking for in melee range..
Like what the others said. Aura flare wasn't meant to be a sorc or sps main or only "weapon" to be used in pvp, thats why the nerf because too many people where abusing it and it was clearly unfair. Thats also why they change things with sleep. Yes you can still sleep a player, but you can't sleep them again and again.
Nukers are meant to fight from a distance, aura flare was meant as a last resort thing or to be used to finish off someone or something that has already been severely weakend.
You're not supposed to beat a melee when he catches you.
Problem is, you can still fairly safely keep the melee from doing so (which is lame) and you can still win.
I remember playing a game where taking damage was an automatic interrupt - there was nothing a mage could do once they were in close range, they'd just stand there and take a beating.
The key to PvPing as a mage in that game was to keep your enemey away -and that's still possible in Lineage II.
You're not supposed to beat a melee when he catches you.
This is true
But there are ways around this nerf. If you havent found it yet here is a hint aura bolt. not as powerfull as aura flare but AB/AB/AB/AF repeat. works real well. Its not the same as spamming AB but it may keep you alive it has for me in a pinch. But I try to never be close enough to have to use it.
The above was tested on PTS it worked pretty well but have not had to use it on live server. Of course you have to lvl aura bolt all the way assuming you quit putting sp into it when you go aura flare
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
congratz, you just killed your enemy. or, as an alternative, use a slow skill and kite your enemy to death.
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
congratz, you just killed your enemy. or, as an alternative, use a slow skill and kite your enemy to death.
corrected that for ya
how can ppl complain about any mage nerfs?
as far as i can see cancel was actually boosted (if you remove agis first go)
and sleep/nuke/sleep/nuke was always the best way to win a fight
dont understand why ppl started spamming AF that actually gave melee a slight chance to win..... very very slight
That's because most nukers consider 1v1's or Arena's pvp.
Most of the people who are complaining about Aura Flare being nerfed are the same people who spent hours, and I literally mean hours a day sitting at the arena, running in and out and canceling and then slamming a few Aura Flares into an opponent.
There is a reason that archers and nukers get a ranged attack of 900. You put your melee out front and your ranged in the back. Lineage is designed for mass pvp. Look at seiges and look at pvp outside of the arena. Very rarely are numbers not into parties of 3 or more people versus a similar sized force.
If the attackers can get through your melee and to your ranged then yes, they have every right to be able to take you down. I've seen C3 videos of Spellsingers and Sorcerors taking out 2 or 3 melee at a time with Aura Flare.
All that has happened is they have balanced the issue. I have yet to see Aura Flare do less damage to a mob. So no complaints.
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
congratz, you just killed your enemy. or, as an alternative, use a slow skill and kite your enemy to death.
If the above happens to you, you suffer from one or both of the following problems:
1) crappy or no jewelry
2) fighting a mage too high for you
If sleep lands like that on you, you deserve to die like a chump. My sleep on a player adequately bejeweled is mediocre at best.
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
congratz, you just killed your enemy. or, as an alternative, use a slow skill and kite your enemy to death.
If the above happens to you, you suffer from one or both of the following problems:
1) crappy or no jewelry
2) fighting a mage too high for you
If sleep lands like that on you, you deserve to die like a chump. My sleep on a player adequately bejeweled is mediocre at best.
EQ i hope u know that with blessed sps sleep can land on just about anything, on a lvl 67 SE with the lvl 35 sleep i can still sleep stuff in TOI using bsps and c grade staff... when i play my 51 sps i sleep people for about 100% chance until they get A grade stuff so around 61 (using non enchanted (+0) homunkulus) no empower using bsps. soo.. they are fighting too high of a mage?
EQ i hope u know that with blessed sps sleep can land on just about anything, on a lvl 67 SE with the lvl 35 sleep i can still sleep stuff in TOI using bsps and c grade staff... when i play my 51 sps i sleep people for about 100% chance until they get A grade stuff so around 61 (using non enchanted (+0) homunkulus) no empower using bsps. soo.. they are fighting too high of a mage?
Lol, shure you do =)
Mages are ment to be killed before lvl 25, couse then is when they get their sleep ;)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
/useskill sleep
/useskill (insert your main nuke here)
Funnily enough, this is more likely to result in death for the mage outside of a siege area, where sleep can only be cast on a pink or red target. And lo and behold, the enemy is only red or pink when he or she has already run up to you and given you a smack, the exact situation that everyone says should result in the death of the mage. And of course their is the rather large problem of sleep or any other negative buff not having a high chance of success on relatively equal level or greater characters with jewelery that matches their equipment level mastery. And factoring in the set bonus from nightmare armor, using sleep within a strategy becomes nearly worthless, as its now low chance of success does not allow it be relied upon.
What is there left for us? Increase our casting speed? But a high casting speed was the crux of the mage problem. Anything which was the cause of a problem shoud not be called upon as a solution. Some of us, who neither used +4 wit dyes, an acumen weapon, nor a robe which increased casting speed were casting aura flare within a time interval roughly equal to the speed at which a spellhowler with all of these things was casting hurricane. We then, were actually doing less damage with aura flare over the same time that a spellhowler was doing with hurricane. Did we rely on aura flare during pvp any less because of it? No, we were the ones who needed it for pvp, because there was a sure guarantee that the opponent was going to reach you no matter what set of spels you tried. Hydroblast would be too slow and deal too little damage to kill an opponent before they got to you. And once they did, the casting time was long enough that you would not get enough hydroblasts off before the opponent had killed you. Freezing shackle suffers from a similar problem to sleep sans the need for a pink or red target. While it has the potential to slow the opponent down, it does not do so in a guaranteed fashion. And of course, several classes have their own skill which can slow us down in return, or speed themselves up, negating the bonus given by frost bolt fromt he getgo.
Our (the slow spellsingers and sorcerors) only real viable tactic was aura flare, and given our slow casting speed and the short range of the spell, the opponent actually had a very chance to win against us if they had sufficient jewelery, as the proportional damage we were dealing to each other over time was similar.
This doesn't mean that aura flare was something we should have relied upon to win, it only means that there was something wrong with our classes when we had to rely on it to win. Were everything to have been correct, we should have been able to kill the opponent before they got to us, and conversely the meleers should have been able to kill us outright if they managed ot close the distance. But this is not how the game operates. In almost every case, a melee opponent is very easily able to close the gap between us because spells do not do enough damage, are easily resisted, or can only be cast on the target once the target was in your face. That seems to explain why aura flare existed from the getgo; to allow the mage to deal with the inevitability of the opponent ringing their doorbell. But then, if it was designed to function in such a way that it would allow the mage to deal with a close opponent without being either overpowered or too weak to be effective, how did we arrive at a situation where one year down the line, the spell was so drastically reduced in power?
That much is easy enough to explain. Optimally, o ne could imagine that their should be some slider that one can move around in which balances casting speed with spell damage, so that for any point on the line which the slider can reach, the balance of speed to damage is such that the averaged damage per second will be the same for all points. Every direction towards increasing casting speed would be met by a proportional decrease in damage, and every increase in damage would be met by a proportional decrease in casting speed. Yet, anyone who looks at how Lineage 2 is designed will know that is not the case. It is quite possible for someone to only increase casting speed without decreasing spell damage, or to increase spell damage without decreasing casting speed. This is easily pointed out by the use of +wit -men dyes, +int -men dyes, mage weapons with acumen, and several robe sets that increase casting speed in a manner similar to acumen. Once such a system existed which allowed both speed and per spell damage to be maximized, it was only a matter of time before things got out of hand, and we arrive where we were come C3, mages who had a combination of casting speed and spell damage which allowed the slider to reach points outside the constant average spell damage per second line.
That was the problem that this attempted to fix, the decrease in m attack from using aura flare was simply a way to trey to move the slider back onto the constant spell damage per second line. However, it was created under the assumption that every mage had already maximized both spell damage and casting speed; any mage who had not maximized either spell damage or casting speed and was on the correct line before the patch would be moved to a point that was beneath the established constant average spell damage per second line after the patch.
And I won't say that its ok to hurt some mages because 1 verse 1 pvp doesn't matter, which is the line everyone else is taking. I don't believe thats true.
Firstly, when I sit down to play, I don't have a hundred characters at my beck and call, and I have is me and the one character I can control. So how this one character performs is of prime importance to me, as it is all I can use to interact with the game, the agent by which I am made to be immersed within the world layed before me. Could I imagine some real time strategy game where there is one player who directs the units as a group and then several other players who directly control only one character within the group? Yes I can, and yes I have played such a game before, but I wouldn't shell out $15.00 a month for it, and even for free I never really gave it much time.
Secondly, it is not entirely possible to actually create and then enact such a strategy where a bunch of melee characters stand in front of a bunch of glass cannons and protect them from harm. It is far to easy to simply walk around those melee characters and directly attack the glass cannons, especially on a field where quarters are not cramped and you only have a total of 200 on each side at most, and the majority of each side does not consist of melee characters, in other words, a what would constitute a pitched battle in Lineage 2. Now a castle siege might be slightly different because once inside the castle, areas are cramped, however in those cases players are hindered more by a shoddy targeting interface than they are by a wall of melee characters assembled in a hallway, as it is still possbile to bypass them unless their are enough of them to sufficiently block the passage.
Thirdly, the penalties encurred upon dying are far too harsh to make anyone really accept the idea that they are only a gear in a machine, they would much rather believe that they themselves can somehow prevent their own deaths through a direct action. A gear in a machine must accept the fate of the machine it is a part of, but the machine itself is able to control whether it runs into a wall or stays on the road.
sry. too much to read, but i caught this 2 points:
factoring in the set bonus from nightmare armor, using sleep within a strategy becomes nearly worthless
you're assuming that everyone can afford nightmare set, but there're many players that can't either afford the whole set unsealed or be at lvl 61. are you saying that those players, which is the majority of the population, are not suppose to have a chance against sleep, which is obtain by mystic at lvl 25? buffs have to come from somewhere, and most of the classes don't have access to those, so please don't assume all ppl can get buffs whenever they want. jewelries? how many classes can stand against a bsps sleep in normal means (aka not optimally buffed, but with appropriate jewelries)? don't forget that once you activate bsps, you're 4 times as likely to land sleep, because:
matk dmg = sqrt(makt/mdef)*91*skill pwr (c1 prima guide page 26)
to achieve 2x atk dmg from normal nuke, bsps boost matk by 4.
Some of us, who neither used +4 wit dyes, an acumen weapon, nor a robe which increased casting speed were casting aura flare within a time interval roughly equal to the speed at which a spellhowler with all of these things was casting hurricane
if you're not willing (or not able) to setup +4 int +4 wit -8 men w/ acu weap/armor set doesn't mean that the rest of the population can't setup this way. you're not taking (or unable to take) full advantage of mage setup and we'll just leave it at that.
about sleep/nuke strat not work in open field, sleep isn't your only cc skill. even if you just hold your main nuke button, chances are you can cripple your opponent enough that they can't do much even if they get in range, or even out right kill him/her. one bsps nuke from a de wizzy takes away all my cp, so what are the chances that he needs to aura burn me?
I just discovered a bothersome aspect of the aura flare nerf. The way it has been implemented, the debuff appears every time you use the skill aura flare, whether you are targetting a mob or a player. My main is a sorceress, and Aura Flare is my secondary nuke in PVE. Tonight I was levelling and got slowed by a mob. I was already pretty well buffed, but I always leave one spot for any debuffs that may come my way. With slow, I was full. I used Prominence, then Aura Flare and lost my concentration buff.
As a sorceress, this either reduces my available buff slots by 1 or reduces my available nukes from 3 to 2 (that includes Aura Bolt, which I rarely use in PVE). The patch notes indicate that the Aura Flare change does not affect PVE, and I really don't think it should. Any idea if this will be fixed?
I just discovered a bothersome aspect of the aura flare nerf. The way it has been implemented, the debuff appears every time you use the skill aura flare, whether you are targetting a mob or a player. My main is a sorceress, and Aura Flare is my secondary nuke in PVE. Tonight I was levelling and got slowed by a mob. I was already pretty well buffed, but I always leave one spot for any debuffs that may come my way. With slow, I was full. I used Prominence, then Aura Flare and lost my concentration buff.
As a sorceress, this either reduces my available buff slots by 1 or reduces my available nukes from 3 to 2 (that includes Aura Bolt, which I rarely use in PVE). The patch notes indicate that the Aura Flare change does not affect PVE, and I really don't think it should. Any idea if this will be fixed?
Only thing I can say is you are using a buff you dont really need. If you have so many buffs on you that you lose one when using aura flare you are waisting mp.
I don't think the change to Aura Flare really hurt anyone. If anything I'd suggest that it taught a lot of sub par players how to better play a nuker. Instead of relying on a spell which was the fastest damage over time but commanded close range positioning. They are now relying on range and stronger spells, this means less nukers in vulnerable positions.
Aura Flare is still an option although most seem to just chain cast their main nuke instead of it. The difference in cast speed isn't too bad and in most cases the damage from straight nukes even at close range will still drop pretty much anyone.
I don't think it is relevant what buffs I had on. I have been in many parties where I've been overbuffed beyond my control (warcryer + blade dancer is one example). I was simply pointing out what seems like a bug. The patch notes clearly state the effect is PVP only, therefore the current implementation is broken.
No other class (besides SPS and Sorc) has to leave a buff slot open to use one of their only attacks. This issue would be like a gladiator's focus sonic taking up a buff slot, thus bumping off a buff.
First I want to laugh because this is the FIRST "mages are too nerfed posts" I have heard...I think ever! Yes the AF nerf was harsh in PvP, and that is still why I wonder so many melee classes still come up and say "nerf mages". I always go to those nerf mage posts and give them a piece of my mind, and they pretty much just flame and tell me to shut up. But I will give my 2 cents in this post too...
First, yes I am a mage. I am a SpS, one of the classes that people were really ****** about AF with in PvP.
Okay, AF is importaint...I don't think in PvP, but in PvE I find it VERY usefull, esspecially if my group draws too much. Then it is time to break out sleep cloud and AF for faster killing. But this isn't a problem because NCsoft was smart and didn't effect this skill for PvE.
Second, I feel the nerf for PvP was fair! OMG write it down, a mage is agreeing that a mage nerf was fair... :eek: I agree, if you allow a melee to get close to you, you should be TOAST! That is just fair game. If your sleep fails and the close it, by god...I hope I fall! In "real" pvp you hope that your other brothers in arms will help take out the melee before he gets within blade's reach. We have sleep and slow spells that we are supposed to be using as out defense like melee use their armor. If the melee gets past all these defenses, then you die...plain and simple...you should have no freakin choice but to eat dirt!
If melee get into range, it is about 5 seconds before you are down and out. If you have a chance you should try to get of sleep, if it fails or is canceled, than kiss your robed *** goodbye. If you are stunned, go afk and get a sandwich...cause there is nothing you can do.
Sleep isn't as powerful as so many say. With the correct jewels, and if you set yourself up for resistance to sleep either with armor or buffs, it may land 1/5 times. This isn't too good considering we only have to miss once, maybe twice, if we wanna be fried. Yes I am talking about bsps sleep.
On that note, I hated the mages that gave us the stupid "overpowered" title by spamming AF in pvp...I HATE THAT! LEARN HOW TO PVP!!! Quit making people think that a mage is reduced to like holding down 2 different F keys...learn to play your class with style. :mad:
I will end my closing also stating I hate the current people that still want a mage nerf. Learn how to take out a mage, dang it! We have been nerfed, how blind can you be?
When everyone is trying to assist each other on the actual battlefield where pvp matters and isn't some kind of "yay PvP point" for me...we are on even ground. Sure it doesn't help that the number of ranged attackers usually doubles or triples melee, but ****...the forces are practically even. Stop trying to pvp like a freakin hero, play WITH people...it isn't all about YOU!
Nerf posts are getting way out of hand. The official l2 forums have been reduced to about 3 types of posts. 1.) New player question and welcome posts. 2.) Locked and deleted 3rd party posts. 3.) Nerf and whine posts about certain classes...
Then their is the random DEMAND post and some strange off topic thing that makes up about .001% of the posts here!
First I want to laugh because this is the FIRST "mages are too nerfed posts" I have heard...I think ever! Yes the AF nerf was harsh in PvP, and that is still why I wonder so many melee classes still come up and say "nerf mages". I always go to those nerf mage posts and give them a piece of my mind, and they pretty much just flame and tell me to shut up. But I will give my 2 cents in this post too...
First, yes I am a mage. I am a SpS, one of the classes that people were really ****** about AF with in PvP.
Okay, AF is importaint...I don't think in PvP, but in PvE I find it VERY usefull, esspecially if my group draws too much. Then it is time to break out sleep cloud and AF for faster killing. But this isn't a problem because NCsoft was smart and didn't effect this skill for PvE.
Second, I feel the nerf for PvP was fair! OMG write it down, a mage is agreeing that a mage nerf was fair... :eek: I agree, if you allow a melee to get close to you, you should be TOAST! That is just fair game. If your sleep fails and the close it, by god...I hope I fall! In "real" pvp you hope that your other brothers in arms will help take out the melee before he gets within blade's reach. We have sleep and slow spells that we are supposed to be using as out defense like melee use their armor. If the melee gets past all these defenses, then you die...plain and simple...you should have no freakin choice but to eat dirt!
If melee get into range, it is about 5 seconds before you are down and out. If you have a chance you should try to get of sleep, if it fails or is canceled, than kiss your robed *** goodbye. If you are stunned, go afk and get a sandwich...cause there is nothing you can do.
Sleep isn't as powerful as so many say. With the correct jewels, and if you set yourself up for resistance to sleep either with armor or buffs, it may land 1/5 times. This isn't too good considering we only have to miss once, maybe twice, if we wanna be fried. Yes I am talking about bsps sleep.
On that note, I hated the mages that gave us the stupid "overpowered" title by spamming AF in pvp...I HATE THAT! LEARN HOW TO PVP!!! Quit making people think that a mage is reduced to like holding down 2 different F keys...learn to play your class with style. :mad:
I will end my closing also stating I hate the current people that still want a mage nerf. Learn how to take out a mage, dang it! We have been nerfed, how blind can you be?
When everyone is trying to assist each other on the actual battlefield where pvp matters and isn't some kind of "yay PvP point" for me...we are on even ground. Sure it doesn't help that the number of ranged attackers usually doubles or triples melee, but ****...the forces are practically even. Stop trying to pvp like a freakin hero, play WITH people...it isn't all about YOU!
Nerf posts are getting way out of hand. The official l2 forums have been reduced to about 3 types of posts. 1.) New player question and welcome posts. 2.) Locked and deleted 3rd party posts. 3.) Nerf and whine posts about certain classes...
Then their is the random DEMAND post and some strange off topic thing that makes up about .001% of the posts here!
PS hun. While we're at that: Tyrants, Warlords and Glads need to keep a buff slot open for their heals too. Oh, healing potions? Yeah, very funny when they knock a buff off you - but of course mages don't have that problem, right?
What about battle roar? I know some people say for PvE BtB etc. is nice, but in the end I always thought BR was used as a heal? Or was that a different skill?
BR is great for destroyers, but glads only have it effect 1, so we heal a tiny amount of HP when we use it, about 200-300 hp or so. Its better then nothing but would be nice if it stacked with BtB lol :D Or at least allow glads to continue learning this skill :(
>>I just discovered a bothersome aspect of the aura flare nerf....
As sorc you have very few buffs really needed:
in this order:
Acumen, Emp, WW, Conc, Shield.. 5. Add zerk 6, (add your loved clan hall buffs bless the shield, adv block (wow)). 8... I imagine 3 dances/3songs... 14... You have space for 6 freaking debuffs. Dont whine!
---
I give you example as melee and lovely stun that is debuff (so is psn aka 111).
WW,Might,Focus,Shield,DW,VR,Haste (zerk +-): bare minimum; then acu/emp for hex, blessed shield,adv block for tanks/sws... rapid shot for archers (-VR then); m. barrier; mental shield +-, btb +-, BR.. some more self buffs. Usually after dances/songs not many slots leave open.
First I want to laugh because this is the FIRST "mages are too nerfed posts" I have heard...I think ever! Yes the AF nerf was harsh in PvP, and that is still why I wonder so many melee classes still come up and say "nerf mages". I always go to those nerf mage posts and give them a piece of my mind, and they pretty much just flame and tell me to shut up. But I will give my 2 cents in this post too...
First, yes I am a mage. I am a SpS, one of the classes that people were really ****** about AF with in PvP.
Okay, AF is importaint...I don't think in PvP, but in PvE I find it VERY usefull, esspecially if my group draws too much. Then it is time to break out sleep cloud and AF for faster killing. But this isn't a problem because NCsoft was smart and didn't effect this skill for PvE.
Second, I feel the nerf for PvP was fair! OMG write it down, a mage is agreeing that a mage nerf was fair... :eek: I agree, if you allow a melee to get close to you, you should be TOAST! That is just fair game. If your sleep fails and the close it, by god...I hope I fall! In "real" pvp you hope that your other brothers in arms will help take out the melee before he gets within blade's reach. We have sleep and slow spells that we are supposed to be using as out defense like melee use their armor. If the melee gets past all these defenses, then you die...plain and simple...you should have no freakin choice but to eat dirt!
If melee get into range, it is about 5 seconds before you are down and out. If you have a chance you should try to get of sleep, if it fails or is canceled, than kiss your robed *** goodbye. If you are stunned, go afk and get a sandwich...cause there is nothing you can do.
Sleep isn't as powerful as so many say. With the correct jewels, and if you set yourself up for resistance to sleep either with armor or buffs, it may land 1/5 times. This isn't too good considering we only have to miss once, maybe twice, if we wanna be fried. Yes I am talking about bsps sleep.
On that note, I hated the mages that gave us the stupid "overpowered" title by spamming AF in pvp...I HATE THAT! LEARN HOW TO PVP!!! Quit making people think that a mage is reduced to like holding down 2 different F keys...learn to play your class with style. :mad:
I will end my closing also stating I hate the current people that still want a mage nerf. Learn how to take out a mage, dang it! We have been nerfed, how blind can you be?
When everyone is trying to assist each other on the actual battlefield where pvp matters and isn't some kind of "yay PvP point" for me...we are on even ground. Sure it doesn't help that the number of ranged attackers usually doubles or triples melee, but ****...the forces are practically even. Stop trying to pvp like a freakin hero, play WITH people...it isn't all about YOU!
Nerf posts are getting way out of hand. The official l2 forums have been reduced to about 3 types of posts. 1.) New player question and welcome posts. 2.) Locked and deleted 3rd party posts. 3.) Nerf and whine posts about certain classes...
Then their is the random DEMAND post and some strange off topic thing that makes up about .001% of the posts here!
You are so extremely wrong on most of your points. Yes aura flare did get nerfed, but when did every mage get aura flare? What about spellhowlers and necromancers? Not a single nerf for them in C4, they actually got boosted even more with the new 76+ spells. And for the "if the melee gets past all these defenses, then you die" part, this is totally wrong atm. Even if a melee gets past all of your defenses, they still die a quick and painfull death because of your 1300+ cast speed and 900 dmg a hit spells. Even without BD dances, you are still easily able to reach 1k cast speed. Why the hell do you think there are so few melees left in the game? Because mages own everyone, they both lvl faster and pvp better.
And sleep isnt as powerful as people say? Try playing a tank to 52, then duel a lvl 44 mage when you both are unbuffed. The tank probably won't get to touch the mage once, because sleep is gonna land every single time. Mages seems to forget that every melee don't have a full NM set or their own buff-bot to give them mental aegis. And even if they do have it, cancel still lands too much imo, and I won't even comment the land rate of Anchor as this skill is just rediciolus.
Finally, there is also something else to point out. Mages, the so-called "squishies" are not very squishy atm. With +4 con and a shield a mage has MORE defense and cp than a dagger user, especially AW's. This is just wrong. Mage 1-handed weapons should have lower m.atk than the 2-handed ones.
My solution: Nukers can no longer reduce MEN and STR. Transfer Pain is no longer a learnable skill for Necromancers. That's all.
If you're going to factor in shields, you'll have to factor in evasion also. A dagger very much has the chance to wear a shield better than a mage, but he doesn't, because the evasion does more.
Evasion doesn't stop special hits.. that's the problem. entie pvp is based on specials, tss/double shot/stun shot, etc. Shield does.
Also evasion does nothing to yellow/red mobs. Shield does.
Indeed, evasion works pretty ok (w/ evasion buff actyally) on mobs w/ low accuracy and 4lvl below (this include other daggers, but daggers use only specials in pvp, where evasion does nothing again). To finish you may see quite a bit daggers in heavy, wearing a shield for the reasons stated above.
Probably, I myself (TH), would wear shield but I usually party w/ a WC, so no blessed shield.
And again, compare the pdef of DC robe set to DC light.
DC robes are a PDef bonus set, much like BW light. ;) Can't really fairly compare the two.
And if a shield is so good for PvP - why do I never see daggers with them? As I said, you can only count the absolute values, not the shield - because as a dagger, you could be wearing one.
>>DC robes are a PDef bonus set, much like BW light
Indeed! DC is one of the reasons nukers are imbalanced (well not only DC robes, virtually set bonuses of light are nothing compared to robes).
DC robes and DC light are the choice of the nukers/daggers respectively. (NM light too only because of nukers, only). BW light is not an option at all for a melee oriented class (actually B grade light sucks big time, zubei is good for training though and avadon is cute on human female fighters)
If you compare the pdef you will see around 50def points difference (on 700ish base). That's minor. Considering how much better mdef of a nuker has, considering an AW has fewer CP/HP than a sorc.
>>Why do I never see daggers with them?
Style and classics [plus] daggers are minority anyway. But if you look closer you may find quite a bit of them. Have you seen dagger in doom/maj heavy tanking. If not - obviously you didn't have the chance... to party w/.
The other issue w/ the shield: if a dagger hold a shiled light evasion bonuses (and passives) are nullified; thus it requires to get a complete heavy set. And mark you, I have seen enough of them.
Mages dont have evasion to start with, so why bother. But when you see a special hitting for 1 dmg, you will know why a mage would wear a shield.
You are so extremely wrong on most of your points. Yes aura flare did get nerfed, but when did every mage get aura flare?
Never mentioned that every mage got AF. I actually only mentioned the SpS specifically... :confused: This was a thread about AF so I decided to at least try to stay on topic.
And for the "if the melee gets past all these defenses, then you die" part, this is totally wrong atm.
OK, maybe not 'every' melee, but DD melee...
And sleep isnt as powerful as people say? Try playing a tank to 52, then duel a lvl 44 mage when you both are unbuffed.
Well hopefully in 'meaningful' pvp if you think you are organized enough to take a castle, you would be organzied enough to have buffs... Unbuffed without sleep defense bonuses or some kind of magic resist buffs while the mages use bsps...you deserve to be slept. And about not everyone not being able to afford NM armor, well no one seems to have a problem with people thinking that ALL mages can afford these tatts and acumen bonus gear...so saying that not everyone can afford Sleep resist is countered easily by saying not eveyone can afford acumen weapons, tatts, and robes,esspecially DC.
Mages seems to forget that every melee don't have a full NM set or their own buff-bot to give them mental aegis.
Melee seem to forget that every mage dosen't have full DC robes set, and their own buff bot with acumen enhanced gear and some wit Tats...
Mage 1-handed weapons should have lower m.atk than the 2-handed ones.
I thought they did... :confused: A SoV has about 10 less m.attak than a SOES and the SoV costs a bit more. If you are compairing the SoM and the BoTMT, well everyone knows that you defiately PAID for the SoM, because it is many many times more expensive than the BOTMT...and not everyone can afford a SoM.
So I also find many of your points extreamly wrong and contradictory to yourself.
Mage 1-handed weapons should have lower m.atk than the 2-handed ones.
I thought they did... :confused: A SoV has about 10 less m.attak than a SOES and the SoV costs a bit more. If you are compairing the SoM and the BoTMT, well everyone knows that you defiately PAID for the SoM, because it is many many times more expensive than the BOTMT...and not everyone can afford a SoM.
So I also find many of your points extreamly wrong and contradictory to yourself.
A SoV is more expencive than SoES because it has acumen SA. The SoV has lower matk because it is cheaper to craft (if the recipe / heads weren't overpriced like they are now). It is also together with the "lower level" B grade stuff like the Keshenberk, zubei/avadon armors and Kris.
A SoM is much more expencive than a BotM because you can't use a shield when you equip the BotM. That is the only reason. A SoM wouldn't cost more than a BotM to craft if you bought the recipe and heads for the same price.
About the wit-tats.... every 40+ mage has a +4 wit tattoo these days, especially since you now can buy cheap +4 wit -5 men tattoos in the giran magic store. I also never mentioned the DC robe set, as your casting speed is crazy enough in just karmian, +4 wit and acumen sa.
... And about not everyone not being able to afford NM armor, well no one seems to have a problem with people thinking that ALL mages can afford these tatts and acumen bonus gear...
10 +4 wit tattoo: 1.74mil aa = 3.5mil adena max
homun + acu: 7-9 mil
karmian set: 3 mil max
all can be aquired at lvl 40
complete NM set unsealed: 50-100mil, maybe more
aquired at lvl 61
10 +4 wit tattoo: 1.74mil aa = 3.5mil adena max
homun + acu: 7-9 mil
karmian set: 3 mil max
all can be aquired at lvl 40
complete NM set unsealed: 50-100mil, maybe more
aquired at lvl 61
sry. your reasoning is flawed
Implying that Karmian is equivalent to Nightmare is hardly better...you might be right, in the end, but you should probably stick to the same grade of gear, at the very least.
10 +4 wit tattoo: 1.74mil aa = 3.5mil adena max
homun + acu: 7-9 mil
karmian set: 3 mil max
all can be aquired at lvl 40
Umm you are compairing C grade to A grade prices, trying to prove that my logic is flawed by saying C grade is equivalent to A grade...that doesn't really work.
But who cares? This is getting boring...sooo... Cake is given to people sometimes on a Birthday and sometimes the cake is round and sometimes square. Sometimes it is even different shapes...I think that is COOL!
Edit: Dang someone posted my point before me...lol. About the gear comparison, not the cake!
And yet, a mage in C grade has all the important boni - if, and this is not entirely unlikely, the melee never touches him, he can go to battle in Karmian quite fine.
I've seen pictures of
- two archers that levelled to 75/78 respectively in PLeather
- various nukers that took Demon to 75
I'd like to see a tank trying to go to 75 in chain.
I really think that, if a price comparison is called for, they should at least stick to the same grade or things get a little absurd...for example, why bother with Karmian? Devotion is cheaper and works just as well, right? :eek:
In PvE, where all circumstances are likely to be under your control, ranged classes don't really need much defense, it's true.
Karmian as your main defense against an A-grader in PvP, though?
If you want to compare prices, how about looking at all the different weapons melees need to compete in pvp too? It's not just the armor, it's all the weapons too. I need 4(2handed sword, blunt, polearm and a bow) weapons to fight. A nuker needs 1, so even if our armors would cost the same(they dont btw, maj helm is 2x the price of DC helm on Teon) I'd be paying much more for gear. And even then I'd be getting wiped by the nukers dealing horrid damage with their high power spells and crazy cast speed.
Nukers have it extremely easy for pve, they can stick to Karmian/Demon from 40-75 with no problems whereas a melee trying to go 40-75 with a composite/full plate is total utopia. And a nuker in Demon is still a hard hitting [censored] in PVP whereas a comp/FP melee is something that will get wiped _fast_.
Karmian works perfectly fine as your main defense in pvp if you're fighting a melee that you can slow = kite to death = no need for Pdef = only thing that matters is set bonus.
BBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ all wrong. price changes overtime, but grade req aren't.
how many mages complete their tattoo set that doesn't involve +4 wit raise hand plz
how many mages got SA in pvp that's not acumon raise hand plz
how many mages got armor set bonus in pvp that's not involve + cast spd raise hand plz
how many fighters that aren't using complete unsealed NM set in pvp raise hand plz
see my point? after the first lvl of sleep at lvl 25, mages has the ability to stop enemies with bsps effectively until 61. fighers can't get any dependent protection until 61. even at that lvl, there're 4 sets of a grade armor set, and not everyone uses NM set.