In korea, the average server population (from the last charts I saw) was about 10 times the number of players per server. Ten times. You thought finding an xp group in ToI or AL was bad enough in C1 or C2... ;) In C2, after 60, solo xp was only found in one area: Devastated Castle. Then in C3, you could solo up to 75, but there was only one 70+ soloing area: Blazing swamp. As it is now on L2-NA, a solo character could go a few hours at a time without runing into anyone. This means any nuker who wants to level, can level, most of the time. What about in L2-Korea?
If you can assume there'd be 10x as many people, then your encounters with other players (and enemy players) will be about 10 times as many. That means, on average, 10 times as less free XP time. Imagine if a nuker could only go out and solo for only 10, 20 minutes before an enemy (and their full party of level 75 daggers and archers who xped easilly enough in catacombs) showed up.
Unlike archers, there aren't going to be as many nukers in l2 korea (relative to other classes), due to competition for soloing spots. There *have* been lots of archers in L2-Korea, due to the simple fact that their power has been recognized and curtailed significantly over the last 3 chronicles. When xping in dungeons is the safest and most assured way of xping, there *will* be alot more melee, who can xp in the many, many dungeon xp areas. Thus, for L2-K, even though nukers are very powerful, it's going to be difficult to impossible to level them. Melee parties don't want them, they're mana-inefficient in dungeons, and slow down xp. Leveling a nuker on L2-K is probably as difficult as leveling an overlord here in NC-NA. Because of that difficulty, they keep boosting them, trying to make them competitive against their enemies.
However, in C4, two entire new landmasses of 60+ soloing areas has opened up. We've gone from one spot to xp to half a continent to xp.
Come C5, we're going to see alot more high level nukers in Korea, and especially necros. The korean players will begin to see the immense power of the double stacked acumen and wit curve. I don't know if the two new regions are going to have enough solo-capability for nukers to really shine, but it will help. It may be C6 that we have to wait for before there's enough free space in L2-Korea to have the issues really come to life.
So, stick around for the long haul. If you've been playing since open beta like many of us have, waiting a little bit longer won't kill ya. :p It's going to be another 6-12 months before the balance is reached. But when they do...baby, this is gonna be one sweet game. :D
Why are people who enjoy PVP still palying melee characters? Just subclass a nuker or archer and enjoy the overpowered classes like everyone else, including myself.
You can see the usage statistics for each area on page 17 of the 4Q FY2005 Earnings Release(Consolidated) report.
Korea has 33 servers and 119,345 max concurrent users so that's an average of 3616 per server at max activity.
America/Europe has 9 servers and 28,309 max concurrent users so that's an average of 3145 per server at max activity.
That's only a 13% difference.
It might just be that Koreans are more concerned with the appearance of their character then if they're competitive and win.
The whole 'melee will overwhelm if you create enough of them' argument doesn't really work out that well because mages are still stronger and party size/clan size and alliance size doesn't go up to compensate for recruiting weaker classes.
I have heard that elven elders are their favored 'girlfriend' healers and then it would make sense that tanks are more popular over there then over here because elven elders have very few good offensive buffs. It doesn't mean that the inbalance doesn't exist... it just means that Koreans don't play competitively.
Then we'd need a server by server break down on the toon population, same here.
Because there may be the case that they indeed found a way to counter said imbalance somehow. Or against all analisis they simply don't care. Torg if Koreans weren't competitive they'd simply woudln't have dominated the last Guild Wars tournament.
Then we'd need a server by server break down on the toon population, same here.
Because there may be the case that they indeed found a way to counter said imbalance somehow. Or against all analisis they simply don't care. Torg if Koreans weren't competitive they'd simply woudln't have dominated the last Guild Wars tournament.
Maybe that's where all the competitive Koreans went...
Its not my theory that states they're uncompetitive. I bet they are competitive and I bet that there are plenty of mages over there. I'm sure they have the same problems on the Korean servers.
To say that they don't have the same issues suggests that they're not as competitive and choose not to take the strongest classes or don't understand the game well enough to abuse the system.
I simply don't buy the whole "Koreans choose based on apparance" argument. It could be just me but don't Elven Elders look EXACTLY like SpS? I just think maybe Koreans LIKE competition more. Choosing a class that can kill the easiest doesn't make you a more competitive player by any means, it simply means you either enjoy that playstyle (*cringe*) or you don't want to earn your kills or work for them, in that sense I would say choosing an overpowered class makes you LESS competitive because you want the easy way out.
I simply don't buy the whole "Koreans choose based on apparance" argument. It could be just me but don't Elven Elders look EXACTLY like SpS? I just think maybe Koreans LIKE competition more. Choosing a class that can kill the easiest doesn't make you a more competitive player by any means, it simply means you either enjoy that playstyle (*cringe*) or you don't want to earn your kills or work for them, in that sense I would say choosing an overpowered class makes you LESS competitive because you want the easy way out.
It depends on if you want to win or if you want to play.
If you just like playing then you can do whatever you want. If you want to win you should go with the most effective method.
Being competitive is not about the difficutly of the task its about attaining a goal.
You're suggesting that people should compensate for poor game design by trying to make it fair by playing weaker classes and essentially volunteering to lose. That is not very competitive at all because you're obviously not trying to win.
As far as the light elf thing... SpS don't have heals and the information that was mentioned by MalineII in another thread suggested they play light elves as healer 'girlfriends'. This suggests that they were selected on appearance first and then heals/buffs second.
well when people win too easily typically people will say "there was no competition". Being competitive and winning are different beasts to me personally and I'm sure there are many whom agree with me like Eastern mindsets. An SpS canceling someone is like a racing crew sabotaging their rivals in a way, lol. It destroys the competition, it makes things unfair and thus less enjoyable. Even winning too easily gets old fast. Headbutts may be allowed in boxing if the ref doesn't see it but it doesn't make the offender more competitive because they did what they had to to win.
I remember before playing L2 I used to play Phantasy Star Online. On the Dreamcast it had worldwide servers. Meaning someone in the US could jump to a Japanese server and play with them. And trust me, NA and Japanese servers were VERY different. NA was full of cheaters, Americans became known as cheaters and exloiters. If you were an American who went to Japanese servers and they realized you were American their respect for you dropped dramatically because you were labeled a cheater/exploiter right off the bat. Now I know Koreans are not Japanese but I assume most Eastern nations have the same mindsets as most of the Western nations have similar mindsets but VERY different from Eastern. Maybe Koreans frown upon people who reroll broken classes that are easily exploited and thus there is a less population of these overpowered classes and thus its not an issue. Just because I can trip someone during a 100m dash to win doesn't mean I'm more competitive nor does it make it right. I'm well aware ranged classes are more effective in PvP but personally I think they are boring and the satisfaction of killing people would become dull after a few seiges. I just don't understand why most of the western hemisphere is obsessed with winning instead of having a good time or getting a sense of accomplishment. This really strikes me odd as well because Americans used to love the underdogs (movie and literary characters are a good example) because at the beginning of this nation we were the underdogs whom drove off the most feared and respected world power at the time. Thats why we take great pride in our nation because it was absolutely amazing we accomplished liberation from England.
Or could it just be that Koreans aren't like this or like that.
Could it be that we are only speculating??
Is there anyone who has any facts about their servers??
Headbutts may be allowed in boxing if the ref doesn't see it but it doesn't make the offender more competitive because they did what they had to to win.
What you're describing is cheating which I'm not condoning.
You don't understand what it means to be competitive and don't mind being the loser... okay.
Just because I can trip someone during a 100m dash to win doesn't mean I'm more competitive nor does it make it right. I'm well aware ranged classes are more effective in PvP but personally I think they are boring and the satisfaction of killing people would become dull after a few seiges. I just don't understand why most of the western hemisphere is obsessed with winning instead of having a good time or getting a sense of accomplishment. This really strikes me odd as well because Americans used to love the underdogs (movie and literary characters are a good example) because at the beginning of this nation we were the underdogs whom drove off the most feared and respected world power at the time. Thats why we take great pride in our nation because it was absolutely amazing we accomplished liberation from England.
But thats my thoughts, not everyone's
Using the skills available in the game and provided by the developers is not cheating.
There are many many many ways to cheat in this game but starting over on a new more-powerful and designer-sanctioned character is not one of them. Its the smart thing to do if the player wants to win legitimately. If the player doesn't care how they win then there are many other options they can choose which won't require them to change classes...
Everyone loves an underdog, but no one wants to be them and risk dieing all the time.
But I am a dwarf WS, biggest underdog of them all and i have to say, although solo is not as great now as it was, I wouldnt trade it for the world after I destroyed a SpS and a Mage last night 1v1.
To glav:
YOu have to see the ES new summon (ans SwS new song) and combined w/ SH/Necro (and sorc) it's zero downtime for 2.5hrs straight hunting w/ amazing speed in dark omens.
Party consisted of BD/SE/ES (outside 2x boxed prophet) and nukers (even the SpS didn't ran out mana). ES healed (!) w/ party heals, works nice w/ massive b2m.
Prophet and SE can be replaced by a dominator.
To glav:
YOu have to see the ES new summon (ans SwS new song) and combined w/ SH/Necro (and sorc) it's zero downtime for 2.5hrs straight hunting w/ amazing speed in dark omens.
Party consisted of BD/SE/ES (outside 2x boxed prophet) and nukers (even the SpS didn't ran out mana). ES healed (!) w/ party heals, works nice w/ massive b2m.
Prophet and SE can be replaced by a dominator.
Most people haven't seen a nuker PVP party in operation with a 78 BD using Dance of Siren and Wild Magic2. I have, and GG, wait until you see this!! Every volley of nukes generates at least one crit for over 5k damage. WTH is wrong with you NC?
Headbutts may be allowed in boxing if the ref doesn't see it but it doesn't make the offender more competitive because they did what they had to to win.
What you're describing is cheating which I'm not condoning.
You don't understand what it means to be competitive and don't mind being the loser... okay.
Just because I can trip someone during a 100m dash to win doesn't mean I'm more competitive nor does it make it right. I'm well aware ranged classes are more effective in PvP but personally I think they are boring and the satisfaction of killing people would become dull after a few seiges. I just don't understand why most of the western hemisphere is obsessed with winning instead of having a good time or getting a sense of accomplishment. This really strikes me odd as well because Americans used to love the underdogs (movie and literary characters are a good example) because at the beginning of this nation we were the underdogs whom drove off the most feared and respected world power at the time. Thats why we take great pride in our nation because it was absolutely amazing we accomplished liberation from England.
But thats my thoughts, not everyone's
Using the skills available in the game and provided by the developers is not cheating.
There are many many many ways to cheat in this game but starting over on a new more-powerful and designer-sanctioned character is not one of them. Its the smart thing to do if the player wants to win legitimately. If the player doesn't care how they win then there are many other options they can choose which won't require them to change classes...
Maybe I'm not wording myself well so I'm going to try again about why I think it IS about competition and being competitive.
When there is equal population of classes everything is all good and dandy. People can fight and seige others and have well fought battles. Battels being well fought and evened out for hte most part make for a FUN competition, it makes you want to rematch or do it again because it was close, either side has fair chance to win and therefore more people will fight eachother and compete and thus being more competitive.
Now lets change things up and say overpowered classes have a large population. Some clans/alliances are loaded to the brim with them. Now people simply will not want to seige or want to fight because terms aren't even, the battles can be short and unproductive and just plain not fun. People will want to compete less because the opposing side has more of the overpowered class. This is actually already seen on NA servers, people don't seige some people because they are loaded with overpowered classes. People will not want to fight other clans because of it. This was obvious in C2 when daggers reigned supreme. The clans that were loaded with them were dubbed "PvP clans" and people avoided battle with them.
Now the Korean population may not want it to ever get this way, hell maybe they just can't stand the playstyle of classes like nuekrs and archers like me. They enjoy their population with somewhat evened out distribution of classes, it makes people willing to PvP more because the chance of defeat is equal among eachother. Thats why I say they may be more competitive people because of it. Hopefully that explains my thoughts a little more clearly. Simply being able to win easier doesn't make for competitive games.
If you ever played Soul Calibur and compared it to DoA 2 (I'm comparing Dreamcast games, not new ones) you would know SC could be extremely cheap. There are combos that lizardman can do in that game that are just not right. However take DoA 2 for Dreamcast and the playing field is evened out and thus more competitive. Someone picks Lizardman in SC and I just say screw it, someone else can play. Someone wants to play me in DoA 2 I'll do random every time and have a blast because competition is existant. This one buddy and I have actually gone up to 6 hours STRAIGHT playing 1v1 in DoA 2 with both random characters (so when we hit rematch after the battle it randomized the chars again). Play other version with Tengu as a playable character and I simply won't even bother playing it because its stupid, boring, and less competitive with his cheapass as a playable character.
Then we'd need a server by server break down on the toon population, same here.
Because there may be the case that they indeed found a way to counter said imbalance somehow. Or against all analisis they simply don't care. Torg if Koreans weren't competitive they'd simply woudln't have dominated the last Guild Wars tournament.
Maybe that's where all the competitive Koreans went...
Its not my theory that states they're uncompetitive. I bet they are competitive and I bet that there are plenty of mages over there. I'm sure they have the same problems on the Korean servers.
To say that they don't have the same issues suggests that they're not as competitive and choose not to take the strongest classes or don't understand the game well enough to abuse the system.
I'm gonna comment on your 'koreans choose based on appearance' idea.
Yes it's partly true. Why?
Because gaming is mainstream in Korea.
Think about the word 'mainstream' and what it means. There are a minorty of players that play hardcore. These guys know the game in and out. They're always striving to be on top. They're aggressive. They pvp.
As for the rest of them.. think of any mainstream population in any hobby. In music, they are the Britney fans. In skateboarding, they are the posers. etc. They play it because their friends play it or they play it simply because. These players hardly know crap and they're more concerned about getting a set of rabbit ears than anything else.
As for the melee pvp imbalance.. it's a combination of the fact that most korean players don't pvp (again, these are the casual mainstream players) and the fact that. .NC korea seems to come up with some random crap.
Everybody knows daggers are broken now. Koreans know too. Maybe there simply aren't enough daggers to launch petition wars anymore.
obviously nukers are not being played in Korea as much as here because last I heard a group of 70~ SH's/SE's and Prophets killed Antharas in 25minutes~. But whatever you say...
Then we'd need a server by server break down on the toon population, same here.
Because there may be the case that they indeed found a way to counter said imbalance somehow. Or against all analisis they simply don't care. Torg if Koreans weren't competitive they'd simply woudln't have dominated the last Guild Wars tournament.
Maybe that's where all the competitive Koreans went...
Its not my theory that states they're uncompetitive. I bet they are competitive and I bet that there are plenty of mages over there. I'm sure they have the same problems on the Korean servers.
To say that they don't have the same issues suggests that they're not as competitive and choose not to take the strongest classes or don't understand the game well enough to abuse the system.
I'm gonna comment on your 'koreans choose based on appearance' idea.
Yes it's partly true. Why?
Because gaming is mainstream in Korea.
Think about the word 'mainstream' and what it means. There are a minorty of players that play hardcore. These guys know the game in and out. They're always striving to be on top. They're aggressive. They pvp.
As for the rest of them.. think of any mainstream population in any hobby. In music, they are the Britney fans. In skateboarding, they are the posers. etc. They play it because their friends play it or they play it simply because. These players hardly know crap and they're more concerned about getting a set of rabbit ears than anything else.
As for the melee pvp imbalance.. it's a combination of the fact that most korean players don't pvp (again, these are the casual mainstream players) and the fact that. .NC korea seems to come up with some random crap.
Everybody knows daggers are broken now. Koreans know too. Maybe there simply aren't enough daggers to launch petition wars anymore.
I'm sorry but this is the largest load of crap I have read in a while. Hardcore gamers more oriented toward easiest classes and casual gamers oriented more toward difficult to play characters?! are you kidding me? its the opposite if you ask me, which I know you're not but I'm gonna post anyway :p. Hardcore gamers play games to have fun, they enjoy games. Casual gamers play the game for something to do and therefore would be attracted to the easy classes. Hardcore gamers are always looking for a challenge, not a 'Win' button class.