I'm all about power when it comes to my SH. The higher the m.atk the better. Zubie has the same bonus as knowledge, but I really like how it looks ^^
Demon on the other hand, gives +4 int right? I'm sure I could deal with the hp loss right now. I have +4 int -4 men, +4 wit -4 men, +4 cons -4 str for tattoos and they have been working great to this point. With demon I would have +8 int total...
^.^ what I'm asking is...considerring how I like doing lots of damage, would demon be the better choice? I intend on TRYING to save up for a good OE B grade weapon...
Ya +4 int is better for dmg. Seen some SHs pull all the way to 75 with Demon, so it's good for dmg upping ^^ Sucky for pvp but if you're just looking for some added dmg in pve, go for Demon.
Heheh thanks, I figured as much. Also the person who stated to compare zubie and demon when at 52+, as I recall knowledge has same set bonus so wouldn't I get the same results comparing m.atk with demon and knowledge? =P Yes I'll definately be going demon for pve then...I have zubie already though, so if I ever wanted to make a trip to the arena I could put that on for show ^^
Yeah I am a B grade spellsinger...and I use Demon!
For one, I like how it looks on LE males, and two...I didn't have enough money after getting my SoV!
They are really nice for PvE. For B grade...eventually...I will get avadon for PvP because of the increased defense and cast speed.
But in my opinion Demon is the best robes if you wanna do extra magic attack! Well that is until you get to A grade...but I mean compaired to Doom and whatnot!
Demon has -270 hp AND less pdef AND slower casting speed AND less mp. Watching an SH cast a spell in Demon, even with an Acumen weapon and Acumen/Greater Cast Pots is just cruel and inhumane. And keep in mind that WIT also controls recycle time on your spells. You could be in for a long day xping, but it's your time and your dime.
The difference damage-wise between Zubei and Demon should be viewed in number of spells cast, not in terms of the hard numbers. At your level, you won't find any Greens/White/Yellows that you can one shot in Demon. You won't be able to one shot any of those in Zubei either. As a mage, once you hit the 2 shot threshold, you've achieved perfect equilibrium. The only thing that you can do after that threshold to enhance your performance is to increase your own pdef, hp, casting speed and supply of mana. Dont get too caught up in your overall m.atk. It means less than you think.
But then again, with empower.... and single HP mobs, you never need more then a cast speed... in which case, you can even use Tallum robe set and still make out like a bandit.
it's all about number of hits you need to kill particular mobs.
If demon makes the difference from 3 to 2, by any means do use it. If not, it doesn't worth.
Get INT tatton before WIT for pve; if you are poor get -5men +4int; Much better than no +INT.
Demon is always good at hunting +4INT is a larvish bonus, easily offest by +con tat. Once again it's PvE armor and it solely depends if makes a break point.
I recommend to always carry a DEMON with you if you PvE, if it helps you save one shot, use it.
For B-Grade PvP I recommend Blue Wulf. It takes a bit from your damage, but gives you around 80-90 more cast-speed unbuffed. In PvP Castspeed > Damage.
The drawback is you'll always get asked for buffs :D
I recommend to always carry a DEMON with you if you PvE, if it helps you save one shot, use it.
For B-Grade PvP I recommend Blue Wulf. It takes a bit from your damage, but gives you around 80-90 more cast-speed unbuffed. In PvP Castspeed > Damage.
The drawback is you'll always get asked for buffs :D
The funny thing is...I had divine before, people always asked me for buffs then. I got Demon recently and STILL I get people asking me for buffs. Everytime I ask them "I'm wearing demon set. What do you think I am?"
I'm a warlock. my title says I'm a warlock. more than half the time I have a cat following behind me. yet, people STILL ask me for buffs more often than not. heh.
It is all about dmg but you need to consider speed as well if you want to do PvP. Sure dmg is great but in PvP speed is what counts. My SH I have gone the speed caster route. I have tats (int and wit) and an OE Hom that I use to keep my dmg up. Use Avadon armor and have acumen on weapon and pop magic haste pots like candy. For a SH I cast fairly fast and still do nice dmg.
Have grouped with the "damage" SH's before and as someone said it was painful watching him cast. I was getting 2 almost 3 casts to his one. I would get two huricanes off and be casting the third as his first finally hit the target. Sure he did 1700+ dmg with is shot where I as doing around 1500dmg but count it up.
Slow dmg SH gets 1 cast off for 1700dmg
Fast cast SH gets 2 cast off in same time for 1500X2 = 3k dmg.
Sure you may do more dmg per cast but when I cast 2 times as fast I end up doing more dmg in a speed casting set up than in a dmg setup.
For PvP speed can be the differeance in getting silence/sleep off first or being a victum of silence/sleep. Its great to do big dmg and I used to be a firm beliver in getting the biggest bang for your buck so to speak, but I learned in other games that its damage over time that adds up to be higher than front loading dmg. Sure you may hit harder than me per nuke but when I get 2 or 3 nukes against your 1 nuke I end up out dmging you over time.
You cast 3 nukes for 1700 per (example) = 5100 dmg
In same amount of time I cast 6 nukes for 1500 dmg = 9000dmg.
Sure I use more MP than you do since I cast faster which means I cast more spells per fight, but again the speed set up is nice for regen as well. I can btm and use self heals and the recast timers come up fairly quickly that I can regen about twice as fast as a dmg spec SH.
Tested that once too. Dmg SH and I both blew our pwer till down below 200mp. Same lvl and fairly close to same amount of MP. He was spec for dmg I am spec for speed. Doing btm then the lvl 1 self heal (reason for use is mp cost is 9 you regen 11+ natural so its a free return...crappy heal but really doesnt cost you pwr to use it) till full MP and health. Took me about 2 minutes and him about 5 minutes because he was waiting on recast timers where I wasnt.
Damage is great and probably cheaper in PvE because you can one shot mobs that take me 2 (but hey get to use over hit spells that way to maximize exp). But I like having the dmg of the SH but still able to speed cast on pair with humans and to some extent light elves. Its a playstyle thing for sure. Seen many suggest a slow dmg armor set for PvE and getting armor with +casting speed for PvP. If you can afford two sets go for it...I cant so I went the speed route so if I have to PvP I am ready so to speak.
It is all about dmg but you need to consider speed as well if you want to do PvP. Sure dmg is great but in PvP speed is what counts. My SH I have gone the speed caster route. I have tats (int and wit) and an OE Hom that I use to keep my dmg up. Use Avadon armor and have acumen on weapon and pop magic haste pots like candy. For a SH I cast fairly fast and still do nice dmg.
Have grouped with the "damage" SH's before and as someone said it was painful watching him cast. I was getting 2 almost 3 casts to his one. I would get two huricanes off and be casting the third as his first finally hit the target. Sure he did 1700+ dmg with is shot where I as doing around 1500dmg but count it up.
Slow dmg SH gets 1 cast off for 1700dmg
Fast cast SH gets 2 cast off in same time for 1500X2 = 3k dmg.
Sure you may do more dmg per cast but when I cast 2 times as fast I end up doing more dmg in a speed casting set up than in a dmg setup.
For PvP speed can be the differeance in getting silence/sleep off first or being a victum of silence/sleep. Its great to do big dmg and I used to be a firm beliver in getting the biggest bang for your buck so to speak, but I learned in other games that its damage over time that adds up to be higher than front loading dmg. Sure you may hit harder than me per nuke but when I get 2 or 3 nukes against your 1 nuke I end up out dmging you over time.
You cast 3 nukes for 1700 per (example) = 5100 dmg
In same amount of time I cast 6 nukes for 1500 dmg = 9000dmg.
Sure I use more MP than you do since I cast faster which means I cast more spells per fight, but again the speed set up is nice for regen as well. I can btm and use self heals and the recast timers come up fairly quickly that I can regen about twice as fast as a dmg spec SH.
Tested that once too. Dmg SH and I both blew our pwer till down below 200mp. Same lvl and fairly close to same amount of MP. He was spec for dmg I am spec for speed. Doing btm then the lvl 1 self heal (reason for use is mp cost is 9 you regen 11+ natural so its a free return...crappy heal but really doesnt cost you pwr to use it) till full MP and health. Took me about 2 minutes and him about 5 minutes because he was waiting on recast timers where I wasnt.
Damage is great and probably cheaper in PvE because you can one shot mobs that take me 2 (but hey get to use over hit spells that way to maximize exp). But I like having the dmg of the SH but still able to speed cast on pair with humans and to some extent light elves. Its a playstyle thing for sure. Seen many suggest a slow dmg armor set for PvE and getting armor with +casting speed for PvP. If you can afford two sets go for it...I cant so I went the speed route so if I have to PvP I am ready so to speak.
Again its play style. I prefer to cast fast even in PvE. Sure dmg SH can lvl cheaper since they wont use as many bsps to kill a mob but I don't buy the lvl faster statement. I orginally planned to go the dmg route but ended up getting loaned karmian armor and a hom w/acumen when I got to c grade. Planned to use it till I got demon and a staff with magic pwr. Got used to the speed then borrowed a demon set up from a friend once and absolutely hated it. Was too slow and the playstyle was much different. I got myself into more trouble going the dmg set up than I did in a speed set up. Died more often with dmg setup than I have in a speed set up. Died like 8 times using dmg gear over 2 lvls. In speed gear I have not died 8 times in over 30 lvls. Proficent in PvE and PvP. To each their own its all about playstyle...dmg vrs speed does effect playstyle.
Im 60+ and still use demon in pve never even bought any B grade armor (saved adena for A grade). With GMH pots and tats my cast speed is over 700 and thats plenty fast enough in PVE. But if I get jumped or if I have to pvp im in trouble. But of course usually im outnumb numbered. I now have NM for planned pvp and sieges I last a bit longer and high resist to sleep/hold is great. It's all about your play style if you prefer pvp cast speed is most important. I you mainly pve Matk is most important. So go with what you like. In my case until I hit 76 my main priority is pve so Matk is what I go for.
You will be lucky to get a majority agreement on Nuker setup when it comes to armor. But as far as tats and weps I think most Nukers use the same setup.
Oh I forgot because of my work schedule and when I play I solo alot. Thats why I have trouble in pvp. Also you will learn as a nuker you will be the first target in group pvp most of the time. So unless you have great buffers/healers and support get use to dying lol. After playing a mele (glad) and Nuker (Sps) all I can say is ranged is the only way to go in this game.
Demon/Nightmare for PVE, Tallum (against mages)/DC (agains melee) for PvP
As you may see, Demon set is a required component in PVE for any mage starting from C-grade...
Having PvP set along with Demon set gives additional freedom to adjust pdef/mdef/matk. For example, normally as a Necromancer I wear Tallum robe. And when I need some extra damage, I swap Tallum gloves with Demon gloves, thus getting +2 INT (but reducing casting speed a bit). If I need more damage, I swap Tunic & Stockings, thus getting extra +4 INT (but lowering casting speed alot).
Demon/Nightmare for PVE, Tallum (against mages)/DC (agains melee) for PvP
As you may see, Demon set is a required component in PVE for any mage starting from C-grade...
Having PvP set along with Demon set gives additional freedom to adjust pdef/mdef/matk. For example, normally as a Necromancer I wear Tallum robe. And when I need some extra damage, I swap Tallum gloves with Demon gloves, thus getting +2 INT (but reducing casting speed a bit). If I need more damage, I swap Tunic & Stockings, thus getting extra +4 INT (but lowering casting speed alot).
Man, you are the worst mage I've ever seen. Shame on you... these setups are really, REALLY bad.
Neither Divine nor BW nor Tallum are good ideas. There is somewhat of a case for BW if you want to, for some reason, push crits on a SpS, but it'd be better to just do normal damage in Avadon.
From my own experience :
In PvE : Demon > *, but depends if you can 2-shot the mobs you want or not. Prefer the Avadon at 52+ if you already 2-shoot them. ( Better P.Def, more HP/MP, improved Casting Speed ).
In PvP : Avadon seems the best, as it doesn't have any malus. Thats the set I'll wear asa I get 52.
Here's my current stuff :
Tattoos :
+4 INT / -4 MEN
+4 WIT / -4 MEN
+3 CON / -3 STR
The results are :
+29,37% M.Atk ( due to +4 INT. +8 INT makes it +61,16% with the +4 from Demon )
+21% Casting Speed ( Due to +4 WIT )
-11% M.Def ( Due to -8 MEN. Worth the sacrifice imho. )
Weapon :
C-Grade : +3 Homunkulus Sword ACUMEN.
B-Grade : It will be a +3 Sword of Valhalla ACUMEN
You could ask me : "Why do you always use a sword ?"
I would answer that with a sword you can use a shield, that is pretty appreciated against melee mobs/PC, especially archers :)
What I want to ask you is why are you hanging around single HP mobs you can't two shot without demon( because at each level, unless your an SPS, you have options ), and why you're using +3con -3str.
Also, what class are you? The stats don't match the racial statistics of anything... though it's closest to DE.
Neither Divine nor BW nor Tallum are good ideas. There is somewhat of a case for BW if you want to, for some reason, push crits on a SpS, but it'd be better to just do normal damage in Avadon.
BW does not push crits. But it adds around 80 to your cast-speed OVER Avadon (unbuffed), and not takes a lot from your damage.
This makes a big difference in PvP.
Let two equal mages fight each other, one in Ava one in BW: If you dont count crits, I am certain the BW mage wins EVERY match, because he will ALWAYS be the first to cast sleep.
What I want to ask you is why are you hanging around single HP mobs you can't two shot without demon( because at each level, unless your an SPS, you have options ), and why you're using +3con -3str.
Also, what class are you? The stats don't match the racial statistics of anything... though it's closest to DE.
You CAN 2-shoot 1xHP mobs w/o demon... just open with Shadow Flare :)
+3/-3 coz I was short on money when I bought this one >_<
I'll get enough soon to go for a +4/-4.
I'm Spellhowler currently 50, working on 52 to get Avadon/+3 SoV w/Acumen.
Yes, and why not go for the mobs you can two-shot with demon instead?
And yes, I'm aware that BW increases cast speed slightly more than Avadon, but it also decreases damage - it's a fully exclusive PvP set indeed, and the edge it gives over Avadon just isn't high enough to justify a purchase unless you have it already. It may give you a slight advantage in 1v1 PvP, but then again, not over the actually interesting 1v1 PvP set for the olympiad (DC). A multi-million arena purchase, I guess.
I'm also not saying the crit increase is actually worth it - just that it's pretty much the only reason anyone could want BW over Ava IMHO.
And yes, I'm aware that BW increases cast speed slightly more than Avadon, but it also decreases damage
Slightly? Hardly...
Divine (+1 Wit) gives SLIGHTY more castspeed than Avadon. BW give an estimated 35% increase in castspeed, compared to 15% from Ava this is not what I call slightly...
it's a fully exclusive PvP set indeed, and the edge it gives over Avadon just isn't high enough to justify a purchase unless you have it already.
Wrong.
Where I hunt, I can 2-shot mobs with Avadon, and I can 2-shot the same mobs with BW.
With BW I have much less risk, as I am hellish fast (without speed buffs), I have much more base MP, and I have an increased MP-Regen.
Of course, damage with BW is lower, so if you need a shot more, switch back to your Demon.
It may give you a slight advantage in 1v1 PvP, but then again, not over the actually interesting 1v1 PvP set for the olympiad (DC).
It gives you an advantage in any PvP. It is the best choice for you until you finally reach (and can afford) A-Grade.
A multi-million arena purchase, I guess.
:eek: :mad: :o
I'm also not saying the crit increase is actually worth it - just that it's pretty much the only reason anyone could want BW over Ava IMHO.
Is this your honest opinion after you acutally TRIED both sets? I don't think so...
Actully the higher your wit is the more your magic crt rate is, onyl wild magic helps that. (which is what mell is talking about)
For mell and the OP:
First off Demon Set is the worest set to use for PvE!! use it only for raids. specially if your a necro.(52+)
heres the reason: -270 hp from your bace HP, -1 to wit, you cast way way too slow. you hit a lil harder, but the cast speed and - HP meens far less dmg you should be doing.(fro necro),I used this set on my scor on the PTS, I hated it.
Useing tillum over DC is one idea thats not bad, for one it's alot cheeper then DC set. the - 2 men that DC gets hurts M df, the -2 int that tillum gets hurts m dmg but it's not as bad loss as the m df. cause most reroll nuker now.
Don't think that just cause cast speed is importent, that you should over look dmg. Too many people are on this idea that you need to over look dmg to gain cast speed.
You CAN 2-shoot 1xHP mobs w/o demon... just open with Shadow Flare :)
You END with shadow flare if you want the exp bonus of up to 25% <_<
As for your tatoo, you should have just went to Heine and bought some +4con -6str dyes. They are pretty cheap.
Don't think that just cause cast speed is importent, that you should over look dmg. Too many people are on this idea that you need to over look dmg to gain cast speed.
The DPS bonus for cast speed is much higher then the bonus of extra M atk. This is very important for pvp. As for actual PVE, you're right. It all depends on your situation.
i would use a demon set for pve until level 75. +4 wit, acumen sa and cast speed potions will let you cast fast enough. you will always be able to 2 shot a higher level mob than you would with zubei/avadon.