ok heres the deal
you go out to your usual hunting ground with usual party and usual buffs
note your adena, ss/sps, crystals (if relevent) and healing pots
stand in range of the first mob and hit an alacricy or magic haste pot (gsap if you usually use or none if you dont. use a timer)
second it triggers go hell for leather and kill like you normally do
once the pot fades kill the last mob and go take a seat (try not to get any agro)
tally up what you lost and what you gained (if you always use pots to solo count them)
my results
108,840 adena gained
19 c crys lost
488 a-ss lost
1355 pet ss lost
bringing my grand total to roughly a 20k loss per buff round
summary
i always have se buffs and made sure the golem and me never went buffless
at the end of the 20 mins i was completely out of mp and so was the se
a golem lasts about 24 mins and a buff round is 20 mins
counting mat drops im pretty sure everyone breaks even
I don't know the actual breakdown of expenses, but I can tell ye what I'm getting every 20 minutes:
Average of 150 Sea Codas
Which translates to 300+ cords, which at 600a each comes out to 180,000 adena.
Not counting drops, stones (which are normally worth 2x their worth), and such... I'm making a profit still. Even with the wolves spamming beast shots. :D
At 6x, mages spend less adena to kill single hp mobs using A shots at 285 a piece ( 1x consumption ) then lvl 40 115 per shot ( x3 ).
The adena amount increases from 600-1k to 1.1-2.5k between those levels too. At two shots a peice... spending 690 adena for C grade, and 570 for A grade, and spending 3k on acumen 2 pots... it only gets easier, while you are earning more the higher your mage goes.
As for me... considering the fact that two out of three of the mob spawns drop stolen infernium ore, which sells for 10k a piece ( dropping at 8-15 per buff round ), I would say that I'm all profit. By how much... I couldn't say. I'm rerolling to a necromancer... and even if I use death spike, I'm still going to be making more than melee characters using shots.
You cant level without soul shots if you want to be a certain lvl with limited play time, i dont play often as id like so when i do level i need to spam SS to keep my level up at the same standard as my friends. Without spamming SS id most likely be at the high lvl 40's after playing since open beta :/
But if the trade off is that it will take a bit longer to level, but you will be pulling more loot in and won't be loosing ground. I say it's best not to depend on shots and pots.
But if the trade off is that it will take a bit longer to level, but you will be pulling more loot in and won't be loosing ground. I say it's best not to depend on shots and pots.
Out of curiousity Splatter, what is your D Grade main equipped with?
I didnt counted it like that, but yesterday on my WC 40 i put to WH all my adena, and only got a round number of shots (1k Cbsps and 3k Css). I spam ss, but rarely use sps, couse my dots land 95% of the time anyways.
Up to now I spend 2187 Css, 45Cbsps, and may be 3 hp pots (emergencies only).
During this time I earned 50k adena, 22 blood medus coins (going 10 at buy stores), 1 golden wyvern coin, glory of paagrio amulet, and 2 chilly cobols per mob (seeds go for 100a, crops purchased for 200a).
So I am at high profit, and exping fine, almost nonstop.
UPD: I should also try this on my skavy as well, to see what class is an ultimate adena maker while hunting ;)
I don't know the actual breakdown of expenses, but I can tell ye what I'm getting every 20 minutes:
Average of 150 Sea Codas
Which translates to 300+ cords, which at 600a each comes out to 180,000 adena.
Not counting drops, stones (which are normally worth 2x their worth), and such... I'm making a profit still. Even with the wolves spamming beast shots. :D
Level richly, not quickly. :D
LoL
Sure if u can buy the seeds and sell back crop.
I have crop in WH since 6 months now and unable to sell them back. Beside that i can only try on weekends because of the bad times manor resets.
Sorry i cant beat ppl that buy and sell in just 1 second.
Back on topic atm i dont play my BH, its useless to try solo.
When playing Paladin with wolf i dont use potions and ss i kill good and very rarely need rest.
Playin this way i spend like 1/4 for wolf food and can keep mats and 3/4 of the adena but u lvl slow.
spent approx 30k adena
earned aprox 27k adena in adena drops and 10k for the song of the hunter job and 60 cord from the manor seeds I'm using.
with SoE and teleports, I am more or less breaking even when hunting.
otoh, spent 2 hours fishing last night. sold 1500 proofs and 12 shiny fish gems (I deposit half of everything I fish in my wh for my own use) and made nearly 1 million adena.
which is what I'm planning on. break even while hunting, make money from fishing, works fairly well. I can make 3 or 4 million a week from fishing just doing it casually, maybe an hour or two a day.
I hunt 2-box style without shots to be able to afford grouping. Only rarely do I find people who don't tacitly assume that shots will be used full time. Well, to be fair, when I enter a group I automatically assume shot-spam without asking.
You might come out ahead per-mob or per-level, but you'll be itching for IGE for gear upgrades if you use SS and pots all the time. You can make money that way, but it simply won't be enough.
But honestly, by far, most of my money comes from buy and sell.
It is slower, altho not as slow as SPS fears. I think I could have made it to 60 by now, playing most of the time without shots, if I hadn't rerolled.
It is true that without SS you kill at half the speed, but only while you're actively hunting. You still spend the same amount of time running between mobs, and the same or less amount of time going to/from town if you don't use SS.
Downtime is something only stupid players have, regardless of shots. Even when my main was a prophet, I could find places to hunt where he could keep up with heals. Now with an SE, it's even easier.
If im fighting solo like nature intended i will have downtime, that doesnt make me stupid. I have no self healing abilities unlike your healer classes. Im either forced to pay an extra 8 pounds per month to buy a second account and then grind out a buffer to duo with me, or i have to party play which means ill lose money because i have to spam SS and drops are split. Im a gladiator and i am happy with it, i know that if im to get anywhere i cant solo this class and i cant expect it to make money for me, so in order to play him i have to also play the market and hunt with my BH to fund him, its not perfect but it works. Not every class can earn money when hunting.
Buy/Sell aka skimming off the economy is the only way I've found to make money and kill things.
My main is a warcryer though so he's never without buffs. He just has incredibly unreliable damage and can do virtually nothing without shots.
I also have horrible luck with drops and tend to get adena off of 1 in 5 mobs and other drops are even rarer. I gain 1% every buff round when I solo off light green mobs. This is with avadon robes, zubei heavy and a heavy war axe. I tend to lose 20-30k per buff round when I solo. As far as % of net worth that's actually the best its ever been as a warcrier since I rely so heavily on SPS to make any of my spells work reliably.
I don't spam shots in parties though... half the time I don't even lift my axe because I'm in areas where everything is dark red and I can't hit it anyway. I could be there in elven mithril and a tarbar and it wouldn't really impact my role in the group. They should really just let people hire NPC buffers/healers and remove the class altogether.
I made a ton of adena playing the market :) I don't even care about hunting money, I just spam and go for exp. Really, sit back and look at the market. Everyone is all gushy about RFO and the afk mining system...they make 1m a day, Oh goody. I make 30m+ a week now.
Thanks for the hot tip Greenspan. I know how to play the market, and I have more than enough funds to do so... I just wanted to know what scheme you had in mind that can actually give you 30m a week. If it's nothing specific, it isn't worth the effort.
So what is that a polite no? :P
If you want to earn your way thats cool, cheating always ruined the game for me.
PS. it is actually so simple it hurts when you find it out, I remember I sold my only weapon when my first main hit 40..used that 5m to make alot more. But it took me about 4 weeks of watching the market to figure things out better. Made I think 20m in two weeks doing the D crystals.
Also it is not crafting, I can and have done it on a level 3 dwarf (only for 4 sell slots, and only level 3 because thats when you get the free port to giran scroll quest.
Edit: PPS it is very specific, all has to do with just one item I buy. And if I told you I wouldn't make as much, you know...undercutters, everyone would do it..know how to get it cheap, etc. Bad for business ;/
Back when I did it, I spent what... seven hours a day just spaming, pming, and trading between gludio and giran? It got to me though.....haggling . After two months... I had enough of it. As you probably can tell... I have not the gift of gab.
Granted, this was over a year ago, and I only made 40m then.... which at that time, was insane for a lvl 35 Shillen Oracle. It all started with 700k... which took a week of lvl 15-20 ( and deleveling ) spoilers doing "bat's N weavers" quests.
I know how easy it can get... it's just getting into the mindset of a merchant... it kills me inside.
Thats too bad, I don't haggle, I don't watch. I just set up shop go to classes/sleep etc. I do run L2 24/7 though...if I am not playing there is a shop running.
I spend roughly 20k per buff round...which is 20 minutes. I make about 35k in adena mats and drops!
I don't constantly spam SpS because no one is gonna yell at me for not doing it! I usually do other things in my down time. If I am lucky I have an SE with me, which makes me loose more adena, but I kill faster...so I probally end up making 50k every buff round...
The problem with buy/sell is that the more that do it the less profit there actually is to make. Its the nature of capitalism that if there is profit to be made then people will flood in to compete for it barring significant barriers to entry.
I had made 40m back in C1 but I hated the game at that point. I rarely went out and hunted and I spent 9/10th of my time sitting in town skimming off of the economy. This isn't creating new wealth though. This is just redistributing the wealth.
I'm not sure of the OP's original point in posting this thread but I think it will end up proving that the majority of wealth in this game isn't from the 'actual players'. Typical real players are consuming almost as much as they're creating so add virtually nothing to the system. Before someone hits reply to flame this statement, there are people that work very hard and add alot without consuming ss/sps/potions/etc but I assert that they probably aren't the average player.
Here's a quick example:
20min Hunting
Cost: 35k
System Value Materials/Adena Drops: 50k
Exp. Earned: 1.5% (Guess work based on my lvl 57 gains per buff round, we'll assume a DD that kills faster then a warcryer.)
We'll assume the example person is in their mid-50's because this seems about right.
Net for Level: 999,000 adena per level
That's assuming that drop rates don't get streaky and the player doesn't see any major drops. I've only experienced the first scenario and had periods where I could kill 10 mobs and not even see any adena drop from the mobs.
I don't think adding 1million adena in wealth to the system at 5x for the entirety of 1 level is very much at all. This wouldn't be enough to support gear upgrades, clan hall upkeep, teleports, etc. The inflated value of certain drops is what allows some to survive but this is the direct result of excess adena in the system compared to material supply. Many of the players not understanding the 'real value' aka the length of time required to earn the amount in game doesn't hurt either.
Being everyone is alot higher of a level then myself. I see a trend here that alot of you all are way to depended on shots and pots.
Cann't a person level without them?
At a certain point most classes cant solo anymore (sooner when you go without soulshots). Then if you want to party anybody they expect you to spam SS. No spamming SS, no group. No group, no playing. When C3 hit the servers the days you could go spamless were gone and past.
For me, I lose money every 20 minutes. The only thing that keeps me running is mat drops and the events. Maybe when I finally reach 75 I will have my A gear, but I am not holding my breath as the normal ways of making money are not working for me.
I fully agree with the BH. I find that the only hunts where I make money instead of losing it is thanks to a BH party member. So yes, I can advide them for every smart party (after I got mine first though!)
Just posting my own ways.Found a BO necklace for 20k adena when i was 34 (still have it).
I bought 3k bsps b and started hunting.After a few days i had depleted my shots and got around 1.4m adena.Also got 109 Kails gold+80 Kails blood (those i sold for 4.5m in total).And as i had already said i made 5m in a night when C4 hit the live servers selling PoF for 1k (now its sells for 100 adena thx to "those ppl").Its not about hunting-even a nuker cant make money like that (too fast XP-under equiped).But quests are a god send.
So what is that a polite no? :P
If you want to earn your way thats cool, cheating always ruined the game for me.
You see the human half of me is willing to take any help around.... Then the orc side of me is cussing in orcish calling me a weak filthy human, so i'm at odds with myself :)
meh, I've never had a problem earning adena as needed. that is because I came to a simple realization. relying just on adena drops as your only source of income is stupid, and will leave you broke. you will go broke faster in a group while spamming shots, but you will go just as broke solo, it just takes longer. and you will NEVER be able to afford new gear that way. you MUST, with no exception, find other sources of income. that is simply the way the game was designed. once you realize that, and start to explore the other adena making options NCSoft has so thoughtfully supplied, (why do you think we have player run shops over an auction house, not to mention the manor systems, and the BH class) you really begin to catch on.
fishing is just another wrinkle in that whole theme, another valueable commodity that rewards you for the time invested. and, as I'm beginning to clue into, actually rewards the lower level players more than the higher ones. (check it, low level players are the only ones that can fish up the basic fish mats, thin bones, greater fish oil and the like that EVERY common craft recipe requires. for instance, a higher level toon can fish up the 150 shiny fish gems he needs for that new monocle in a few hours, true, but he'll still need to rely on someone of a lower level for his 300 regular fish gems. actually puts some economic power in the hands of the newbs)
Well, the high lvl toon can choose to only train his fishing skills to 12 or so and get the same low mats as the lower lvl guy. The difference is, he can use a higher grade pole+shots and thus land fish faster. Or, use an alt for fishing low stuff :)
But yea, hunting usually means only losing adena(Unless I get some sweet drops...yeah right, my best drop has been a low C-jewel months ago.) but once you add all mats and the likes it aint that big of a loss. Granted, I burn adena all the time exping, but I make it back by crafting on an alt and selling/buying stuff.
Fishing is also a nice new addition to the way of making money since those low lvl mats sell at high prices and are pretty popular atm.
Not to mention you dont need lvls to train fishing expertise (or am i wrong?).You need lvls only for rods.So get a toon to 20 and train till 20-use D rod.And btw you can get 30+ Fluids (1.8k D shots) at Nightmares right outside of Giran (if you have AoE attacks thats-it doesnt matter even if you are lvl 78-quest items always drop).
Too bad at Teon those "special ppl" are getting 400k+ PoF and getting the price down T.T
I don't have accurate numbers at the moment, but I do no longer drop even as of the introduction of pet shots. They are simply too expensive on top of crystals.
The coin quest is a gold mine.If you are too high then i dunno-maybe ToI BP?Havent look in the new areas yet(i have bad memories from those).Farming is bringing in nice cash also.Lvl 20 spoiler-at the end of the day lvl 25 had farmed 100 Crafted leather worth 1m-not bad at that lvl eh?But ofcourse i had bonebreaker(it speeds the killing alot :P)My lvl 16 farmer also got 40 ori ore for 1 day( afew ks of chilly<.< takes alot of those).From my main i got 100 CBP in 1 day which is kinda low but still...if you got to craft high end items its ok.Now need some DMP-every 30 fruits bring 2 DMP-nice cash when DMP is worth 15-20k right?Oh and i have yet to not be able to turn in my crops since C4 came in.New interface FTW!
Let me see i think 5 fruits bring in 1 CBP-great codran is the seed.Its a 56-66 seed (means that if you can kill and seed easy lvl 61+ mobs you can get 2 fruits per seed on 1 HP mobs).You can try out in Giran/Aden (if there are seeds for sale that is :P)
Oh it depends on the price of fruits buyback.So just go to store and see how much CBP sells for (i think it was 1.5k?)
Then double it and you see the worth at which the manor will sell the CBP to you.In this case 3k-so if a fruit is 500 adena-then 6 seeds per CBP.
You cann't look at it that way, if you become consumed with the % Lineage would eat you alive. Thats my reasoning.....
Well from how I see it, at the higher levels, where it takes at least 50+ hours of solid grinding to earn a level, the only way one can level is to be eaten alive. Sure it would be nice to be able to play for 2 hours a day, have fun running around doing whatever, and then loggin 14 days later and see that your level was increased by one, but that is not the way the game works. You must put your nose to the grindstone, and under the pressure and bore of thousands and thousands of repetitions earn the exp needed to level. At that point, anything which can reduce the time needed to level is a godsend, and the only way to notice that is to take stock of how each change effects the experience bar. It just so happens that soulshots and blessed spiritshots, which normalize damage, can make a 100 hour grindfest into a much easier to handle 50 hour grindfest. So it seems to me that it is no wonder everyone who faces such daunting time sinks does whatever they can do to either decrease the time they need to spend grinding, or to put the game on autopilot while they go live life elsewhere.
Yes the point of the game might very well be nothing more simple than spending 100 hours to hit mobs of type X 50,000 times, but from a human perspective, an activity, however fun at first, quickly becomes boring if repeated many times without interuptions of large time lengths.
For me, I lose money every 20 minutes. The only thing that keeps me running is mat drops and the events
.
Maybe that time is over. I mean after all the *****in and Moaning there was on the boards after the Pumpkins, the devs Unleashed the Craptastic Xmas event.
Maybe future events will be just as bad as that as far as value goes. Who knows :(
It really depends on what char am I playing.
Elven Scout lvl ~25 gains about 20k adena / buffs with oe'd gear (+5 dagger spam dss, +4 bow no dss)
Human wizard lvl ~35 gains about 20k adena / buffs with top D-gear spamming bsps
Human warrior lvl ~30 loses 5-15k adena / buffs in catacombs (with duals, with Glaive gain 5-15k)
Shillen Oracle lvl ~30 gains about 5-20k adena / buffs (depending on the (AoE) group)
Warsmith lvl ~45 gains 20-50k adena / high SE buffs soloing, loses 20-50k / gsap soloing without buffs
Bounty Hunter lvl 52+ loses infinite amount of adena soloing, a bit less when grouping.
But all chars gain adena when using manor (500k a day on average). And all drops add up so mostly I make profit.
The Bounty Hunter is the only char that really loses money on me. Can't solo efficiently, in group I never get any good spoils because of sharing. Thus my BH is focusing on fishing now. $.$
NCsoft made a poll which event was the best in 2005.The most ppl answerd the pumpkins.Mostly rich ppl were not happy with that vent since it cuts in their profits.But since i started then as a new player i can say that it was very good for the low lvls to start with.The Xmas event was USELESS!
I just hope they make another one like that ^.^
when i hunt after my mp runs out, usually 2 buff rounds, i have made about100-175k, not including drops or quest items(inf ore) so basically the adena droped covers my SS( cause i spam Bss@58-59a each using a BoP(3pershot)) and i'm good at not getting hit so i hardly use hp pots, i use 2 greater attack pots, they are free cause i hunt in cata with my dwarf so i can have them for free....
soo all in all...i make money when i grind...i don't lose it.
I lose money when i'm not hunting, because when I standing around doing nothing...i usually buy pointless stuff...or blow up Dgrade weapons
I spend 280a to kill a mob. Mob drops average 1k adena at 70% so I get about 700a per mob not counting mats/other drops. So net profit of 420a per mob. Made 125k in an hour the only time I actually tracked it. CDL is the greatest skill ever for farming adena. 1 lvl CDL and I have enough adena to do 2 lvls with cursed bones and break even.
How much is CBP on your server?oo?Its 3.8k on Teon.
But melee have it easy-its better to seed with a melee than a nuker/archer. :(
BTW im making a female DA-i just love how they look:P
Im a 56 Destroyer and I make about 45k profit every 20mins by hunting at cemetary. this is with BSS and not counting the money/items i get from the 2 repeatable quests u can do there.
I lose money when i'm not hunting, because when I standing around doing nothing...i usually buy pointless stuff...or blow up Dgrade weapons
lol amen
i lose alot per buff round but its not like it matters much at most i lost 1.5 mil this weekend ( not counting when a farmer steel my mag earing drop tho i did get his doom BP). while my little dwarf in town made 22 mil so i dont care about money loss when hunting and also al ltheses people useing the manor system hellloooo go sead your naborhood farmers mobs i was doing that this weekend in goddard lol i sold back every frute t to them for one day and onky took about 5 hours
So you are telling us you seed the "automated players" mobs?Ive thought about it but in the L2 log this will make you a part of those (im not saying you are-it will just seem like it).I dont wanna lose everything by getting banned from a mistake <.<
why not ? there killing 4-5 times mobs faster then me so i get 3-4 per sead there drops are gimpped while your seeding and when your done just train em lol its a good situation for players i used to do it back in c2 but the spoil seamed to wipe out the sead to often but it seams now that the window to harvest is a bit longer or the bots got slower
o ya i will realy look like im a bot in the logs
5 hours of seading then training your owne grp stealing drops haveing a drop stolen then returning to town tradeing the seads deposit the mats in clan wh buy a new earing go back out to farmers /war them kill them all then go solo for a fue hours :P for some reason i think im safe XD
The matts are not worth the risk.Also you dont get any XP or adena.So this isnt quite as productive if you do it yourself.Also i can kill just as fast (but its risky at high lvls for a nuker).
I don't know the actual breakdown of expenses, but I can tell ye what I'm getting every 20 minutes:
Average of 150 Sea Codas
Which translates to 300+ cords, which at 600a each comes out to 180,000 adena.
Not counting drops, stones (which are normally worth 2x their worth), and such... I'm making a profit still. Even with the wolves spamming beast shots. :D
Level richly, not quickly. :D
Why would you post this useless info.
I know how to make huge profits from manor system, with a toon in the 20-30 range, but you have to be able to turn in the fruit. Although I made money for a while, the manor bots eventually took over.
what risk ? there bots there not going to mess up and if theay do itsa grasdual breake down of there grp more then eneugf time for you to see stuff going down hill and excape
also ide love to see you kill a angel in wall of argos in 3o seckonds like the farmers do. your also forgettign if you sead your mobs you can kill your drops go good bye spend a hour seading farmers mobs make 5 times and much frute as you make normaly then xp for hours and get your drops you will make amazing proffit and f over some farmers in the process
If you want to make a big profit get a group of friends together that want to do the same go hunt in your favorite spot and do as the farmers do. Dont spamm ss get a scavy to spoil everything and just kill. Great for clans who love to work together for the better of the clan. Throw everything in clan WH