Okay, there was a thread a few days ago where the conversation was advancing the theory that flaws in the game that are apparent on the NA/Euro servers don't appear on the Japan/Korea servers because their players select the characters on different grounds. Not that the inbalances don't exist according to NA/Euro measurements but that Korean/Japanese players are measuring with an entirely different metric.
To provide an analogy, if we had a group of soccer players of not identical but comparatively equal skill but certain individual members were going to be forced to strap 50lb ankle weights on when they play. The American/Euro players point out that its unfair to the handicapped individuals but the Korean/Japanese players might respond with 'How is it unfair? They are all using the same soccer ball, goals and field.'
Here's a snippet from a very old article (Open Beta days) where the lead graphic designer talks about which races were designed for which cultures.
Here's the link to the full article on this site - Developer Interview - Open Beta (http://www.lineage2.com/background/making_2.html).
Hwang, Chul-Woong
Lead Graphic Designer (Lineage2)
Interviewer: The players often joke around that the Dark Elves make them think of "Sister Mania" and the Dwarves of "loricon". Of course, the Orcs were designed for "muscle mania" (laugh).
Hwang: Originally, the Elves and Humans were designed with a concept for the Korean market, the Dark Elves and Orcs for the US market, and the Dwarves for the Japanese market. It's true that the results came out in this unexpected way and there haven't been satisfactory responses in certain countries regarding races designed for other countries. As might be expected, it's very difficult to find a design concept that satisfies everyone internationally.
So at least we know that Light Elves were indeed targetted at Koreans and that could explain why they're one of the favorite races on that side of the Pacific. I feel sorry for the poor Japanese players since they're suggesting that they must really want to play fat hairy short old caucasian men.
That's great that they developers realize that their are cultural differences... now if only we could convince them to let the NCSoft Austin team or some other North American designers localize their game in regards to more then just the dialogue.
Well that the western males like the apearance with "more boobs" over their light elf relatives was clear from day one, strangely enough DE males are not all too popular even amoung the western female players. ;)
Orcs on the other hand were not popular since day one, were not popular after their new design options became cutified and are still not popular even after their combat abilities got severely boosted. So obviously there must be more influence on picking a character than simply outer appearance and skills (when there are similar classes available). Maybe the orcs just totally miss the style. :p (no offense intended)
The design idea was courageous imho. Instead of localizing the game they created many different aspect, more tailored towards a different part of the customers, while the others are still available for those who do not fit into the prejudice. The market and craft part for the japanese, lots of the Korean players seem to prefer devensive playstyle (the ladies probably) and the western leet-***** kids get the orcs and DEs, powerful in dishing out damage, the outer appearance also represents what Korean devs might think is what we like. :p
So... that didn't work all too well.
But the answer cannot be localisation, when there are major flaws in the game, why only fix it for one part of the world?
I'd figure the DE females were more of a Japanese perference. Considering how their anime and manga exagerates females greatly and also make DE females the perfect target for hentai and doujinshi markets. Personally I feel the light elf females would attract western audiances more. Western female preferances are typically more athletic or lean looking. Like Euro and American modeling for example. Dwarves appearance attract Japanese? I guess they must love Santa Clause :).
I guess they were more thinking about the females in that point. ;)
The dwarven race doesn't really have a coherent design as you might have noticed... hence able to address two completely different types of players. Good move from that point of view. I wouldn't want to play a grampa.
Pardon me??? :mad: If there is any issue it's not the orc race, but the human player.
Orcs on the other hand were not popular since day one, were not popular after their new design options became cutified and are still not popular even after their combat abilities got severely boosted. So obviously there must be more influence on picking a character than simply outer appearance and skills (when there are similar classes available). Maybe the orcs just totally miss the style.
I'don't knowwwww. I think your dissing the orc race
That and I also think the "japanese culture" might have more people who are willing to grind to get rich.
Not every dog is a poodle and not every poodle is a dog... remember this game isn't localized at all. :p So it's silly to try and find out which parts might be localized for whom... because they aren't.
Just take any american comic book *cringes and vomits*; all the heroes are musclemans, just like orcs. Heck, even their faces are like them. America (and W-Europe) also has a preference to big boobs; whereas Asian cultures prefer the slim perky looks (elves). In mye eyes the dev's had a good insight on what to choose (which does not surprise me, because decissions like these aren't made overnight by some programmers; they are conclusions of extensive research usually). Especially for a mega rich company as Ncsoft you can expect they did their homework.
Last but no least; Americans seem to want to have a toon that hits hard, and is in generally the "uber" Konan the Barbarian type of guy (heh just look at how american soldiers are drawn in comic books; they all look are blonde 6ft+ tall musclemans with a model face). Japanese comics (manga) enjoy the girls that look like 14 but are 18+ (cough). Just watch any anime :p I have little information about the Korean culture, but it's not that much different from japanese from what i can tell.
IF this is true then the developers have been making some "Ultimately Stupid Mistakes(tm)".
And specifically in this case the racial design. The thing here is the Koreans are worrying to much about "Looks". What they need to be more concerened with is "Game Mechanics/Balance".
See, we can boil 'American' preference down to a single equation.
[Performance > Looks]
The character can be the gawdawful uggliest thing ever forced upon a computer game ever.....but if it can kill anything and everything without blinking, everyone and their dyslexic cat will play it. (Call this "The Power Gamers Corrollary" if you will.)
An "Americanized" player is going to do everything they can to maximize their characters abilities for the greatest effect with the least amount of penalty possible. And if one character has a better 'base' than the other, they will switch. And looks have NOTHING to do with it.
So perhaps a Korean sees this in choosing a character.
1) Looks
2) Desired Playstyle (Melee/Mage/Healer etc.)
3) Economy (Get stuff)
4) Downtime
5) Performance (Easier to get groups and less 'rushing'.)
While an "American" sees this:
1) Performance (Ability to Kill things, solo ability is a big +)
2) Downtime (Ability to take damage or reduce regen times)
3) Desired Playstyle (Melee/Mage/Healer etc.)
4) Economy (Get stuff.)
5) Looks
In short, if the Korean Developers want to appeal to the American/Euro market more, they need to worry less about looks and more about gameplay and game balance.
IF this is true then the developers have been making some "Ultimately Stupid Mistakes(tm)".
And specifically in this case the racial design. The thing here is the Koreans are worrying to much about "Looks". What they need to be more concerened with is "Game Mechanics/Balance".
But I think that is the logical next step to the discussion. I remember that article and even quoted it to some friends of mine.
Getting back to my point, what the article also hints at is that the developers were always aware of some of the different cultural preferences. So we might also conclude that some of the things one might think are "broken" in the game are really not broken but are done on purpose.
So, if one thinks that there is an imbalance between mage and melee it is also possible that this is being seen through some sort of cultural "eyes" and that they really feel that this is the way it is to be.
playstyle first, then the looks for me. must be able to solo well being the first requirement in playstyle actually. (and one of the big reasons my artisan is considered semi-retired in my sig) able to party well being a secondary requirement, and one I was willing overlook in my Warlock, though looks like C4 fixed that for me.
looks came second. which also explains why two out of three of my toons are female, yet i'm a guy. my Warlock came out male just because , for some reason, I identify with him more closely than the other two.
y'know, dwarves being made for the japenese doesn't really suprise me. you give my artisan a schoolgirl outfit, and she'd fit right in with a lot of anime I've seen. (note I said ANIME, **** it. that being said, I've always maintained that I am NEVER fighting anything with tentacles with that toon, EVER. I know better.)
It comes down to a varying values being places on intangibles which can't be quantified in the game system. It goes back to what has been said before in other threads that just because the NA/Euro servers perceives and reacts to a balance issue in the game, the other servers may not respond in the same way. That's because the majority of the other playerbases and the designers may use a completely different type of metric when determining play balance.
If we look at how sports in America is treated, its fairly easy to see that comparative strength is judged by past performance and future potential (ie. factoring in injuries, new team members, etc). If the designers really are balancing the game by factoring in non-quantifiable intangibles then the game will never be balanced to satisfy the NA/Euro playerbase. Their defense of class disaparities would boil down to 'Even if the class is technically weaker people will continue to play it because its cuter then the other options.' The only other intangible that I can think of is the 'bragging right' by making certain classes weaker so that the people that play them can brag regardless of the outcome of a situation. If the weaker class wins then they can claim to have superior skill. If the weaker class loses then the player can claim that winning class could have been played by a trained monkey and still won due to the inbalance. If this is the case then I don't really see how this is a PVP game because it isn't a battle of skill even at the most basic level. The game was already overwhelmingly in favor of those with free time rather then those with skill but adding in that certain classes are inherently superior to others prevents it from ever being perceived as a skill based game.
I don't really think that many people find the Orcs to be repulsive. The female orcs definitely aren't as girly as the other options but they're still obviously female. I think the real turn off to playing an orc is that all of the options are hybrid classes that lack many of the strengths of the original components. Tjey fail to meet the requirements to fall into a traditional class category (DD, Tank, Healer, Buffer, CrowdControl).
Destroyers are a hybrid heavy-armor DD (glad) and Tank. They don't the pure front-loaded damage potential of a gladiator and don't have the aggression management of the tank so fail in both regards. Its not to say that they're not fun to play but they have trouble filling either role.
Tyrants are a combination of a gladiator and a dagger. They have the front-loaded damage of the Gladiator and the light armor/movement of the dagger. They lack the gladiator's damage mitigation with heavy and the 'stealth/pulling' abilities of the dagger. They are a good reliable damage dealer but can't fill in either when those traits are desired.
Overlords and Warcryers can poorly mimic almost anything and need their buffs to make themselves just slightly below average as far as their stats. They are given damage over time spells to allow them to be magic DD's but the spells were setup as debuffs rather then damage so they can't be boosted with BSPS and are a huge waste of MP due to the failure rate. The actual level of their buffs is below an equal level buffer up until the very high levels and they're often inefficient in smaller groups. They're feared in PVP because of their powerful life drain and damage mitigation but killing 1 even level opponent is typically their full mana bar. They are also pitiful in PVP up until level 40 due to their reliance on the bleeds as their primary damage and the lack of the high HP return life drain. They're classified as healers by the system so they're not allowed to increase their 'int' to try to improve the land rate of their spells.
I have a feeling if they offered more traditional fare there would be far more people signing up to play an orc. Why are there no orc mages with access to fire magic and nukes since that is their patron deities schtick. It doesn't help that they didn't provide any 2 handed blunts with the fighter p.attk/m.attk ratio for the destroyers, overlords or warcryers.
Actually we may drop the subject that korean, japanese things different, they are in fact as tired as we are on how they being thretened by NCSoft over there, not fixing balance issisues and so on.
They MAY have different opinions of 'looks' but hell thats it, they are all the same when it coems down to the game play, they are tired of the grind, just as we are, thers no difference.
Why so many peopels play L2 over there is that everyone don't like instance MMO's as kind of starting to become very popular right now and the look of L2, yes thats the reason.
Um... Destroyer deals more dmg than a Gladi will ever even dream about doing. I pull aggro from Hate. I pull aggro from Gladis(dmg setup or speed setup, doesnt matter.) with OE weapons with just my +3 GS. I pull aggro from all the DD classes, with just my own DPS so dont say we fail at being a DD. We are THE DD. No other class has the potential of doing as much damage as a Destroyer. Rage selfbuff alone is stronger than might+zerk. Rage is stronger alone than all the lvls of weapon masteries you can gather. With Rage only, I have more pattk than any class of my lvl, using the weapon they're using. Add in Frenzy and I'm dealing the dmg of 3-4 other DDs. I normally 4 hit 3-4x hp green mobs when I'm buffed(note, not fully buffed but just buffed for normal hunting). I have 1 hitted 4x hp green mobs so dont go and say we fail at being a DD.
Orcs perhaps arent as popular as other classes since they actually _require_ skill to be played efficiently. Using 4 different weapons in pvp takes some skill, it's not just F1, F2, F1, F2 spam like most of the nukers when they chain 2 of their main nukes. Or F1^10000 like Necros spamming Death Spike. We have to keep an eye on our HP for possible activation of skills(30% for Guts and Frenzy, 60% on Tyrant using one of the totems). We have to think ways to maximize the impact we do in pvp. Be it a STR build with a bow playing the green ranger or a hulking CON build playing the dmg sink that with support can suck nukers dry. Or anything between those.
OL is the best buffer+healer for alliance wide pvp. And in 1vs1 it rocks big time. It's also a bit hard to lvl unless you got a dedicated group of friends, and this makes it a bit rare. Same for other orc classes. They're yet again something that requires more than F1 spam so all the teenyweeny powergamers looking for instant gratification dont pick them.
Just for comparision, my normal swing is more than that of a gladiator. My specials are more than those of a gladiator. My HP is more than that of a Gladiator, so please, tell me how we fail at being a pure DD? Using Chrono Darbuka and Crush of Doom, I do 1k dmg on a SPS in Avadon robes, UNBUFFED. Care to point me to a class doing the same with a Chrono weapon? Change that to a better weapon and the results are deadlier. Fatal Strike+Crush of Doom dropped a B-grade SPS in Avadon yet again. I was unbuffed, yet again.
About Tyrants... they have better pulling abilities than any dagger. They can take more dmg, they dish out lots of dmg, they can slow their target(and cripple lands alot). They also got all the nice totems which make them the fastest runner/attacker in the game. They also got a Totem they can use to heal themselves. And they can use it alot if they're a speed build. Tyrant with VR doesnt need the heavy armors of a Gladi since it will negate any and all dmg in pve just by the sheer amount of dmg it is doing. And in pvp, Tyrant is more likely to kill something than a Gladi that is slow as hell. Or a dagger that gets killed if someone looks at them too sternly(dagger hp+cp just sucks).
You just seem to dislike orcs, or havent played them to the high lvls.
Off topic post and thread hijack:
Sometimes I feel like I'm beating a dead horse!
I don't know why you'd be bringing me doooown!
I'd love to think that our clan's worth a tad more,
it may sound funny but if you think by now I'd be smilin'....
I guess somethings never chaaange... never chaaange.
Actually we may drop the subject that korean, japanese things different, they are in fact as tired as we are on how they being thretened by NCSoft over there, not fixing balance issisues and so on.
They MAY have different opinions of 'looks' but hell thats it, they are all the same when it coems down to the game play, they are tired of the grind, just as we are, thers no difference.
Why so many peopels play L2 over there is that everyone don't like instance MMO's as kind of starting to become very popular right now and the look of L2, yes thats the reason.
Hmm I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with what Hellrose says. Sometimes she really has no clue what is going on in Korea, like in that post she made.
For example I'm gonna add, If NCSOFT is like Microsoft in Korea (analogy), then most people love NCSOFT. I dont know why people are stupid enough to think that Microsoft is so hated in America when it dominates the American and most of the global market for a reason. I'm not a Microsoft lover but I recognize a quality product when I see one and most people do as well. The only hard-core haters of Microsoft are a small minority that are mostly made up of Linux users.
If we use that same analogy here with Korea, NCSOFT is popular there for a reason. The majority likes NCSOFT there. Its only the minorities like Hellrose there that seem to have a problem with it.
Hmm I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with what Hellrose says. Sometimes she really has no clue what is going on in Korea, like in that post she made.
For example I'm gonna add, If NCSOFT is like Microsoft in Korea (analogy), then most people love NCSOFT. I dont know why people are stupid enough to think that Microsoft is so hated in America when it dominates the American and most of the global market for a reason. I'm not a Microsoft lover but I recognize a quality product when I see one and most people do as well. The only hard-core haters of Microsoft are a small minority that are mostly made up of Linux users.
If we use that same analogy here with Korea, NCSOFT is popular there for a reason. The majority likes NCSOFT there. Its only the minorities like Hellrose there that seem to have a problem with it.
How do you know? your a korean player like hellrose ? I doubht it.
There is no "preferred NA" or "preferred Asian" playstyle. No matter which way you argue it (from the developer's perspective with their silly assumptions about "American" audiences) to those individuals here stating the opinion that "game mechanics > looks in the West", in both cases the foundation of the argument is brutally and completely flawed.
Games are not played by cultures. Games are played by individuals.
Forget about trying to second guess the developers. Figure out what you individually prefer in a game and then find a game that meets your requirements.
I am here, and not in WoW, because I prefer the graphics style.
Others are here because they want to participate in castle seiges.
Others are here because they really love FFA PvP.
Others are here because they love the pet system.
Others are here because they love the economic simulation quality.
The game is insanely popular in Asia and less popular in the West for one reason and one reason only: A completely failed marketing campaign!
The Asian marketing campaign focused on the beauty of the world. Go back and reveiw the CGI movies. It's all about the poetry.
The North American marketting campaign focused on PvP. Every review, every interview, every website advertisement, even the E3 banner.
Hardcore PvP accounts for less than 30% of the MMORPG market. In some games it accounts for less than 5% of the total playerbase. For the hardcore PvP enthusiast there are dozens of games with better PvP systems than Lineage II.
NC Soft NA failed to market the game on the basis of its strengths (stunning graphics, excellent social systems, player-run economy) and instead focused on the most minor aspects of the game (castle seiges, wyverns) when neither of those systems were even in place at the time the game was introduced to the market!
The problem is not the game. The problem is it was marketed to the wrong segment of the MMORPG audience.
It's not about "culture". It's about you and what you personally want out of a game.
There is no "preferred NA" or "preferred Asian" playstyle. No matter which way you argue it (from the developer's perspective with their silly assumptions about "American" audiences) to those individuals here stating the opinion that "game mechanics > looks in the West", in both cases the foundation of the argument is brutally and completely flawed.
Games are not played by cultures. Games are played by individuals.
Forget about trying to second guess the developers. Figure out what you individually prefer in a game and then find a game that meets your requirements.
I am here, and not in WoW, because I prefer the graphics style.
Others are here because they want to participate in castle seiges.
Others are here because they really love FFA PvP.
Others are here because they love the pet system.
Others are here because they love the economic simulation quality.
The game is insanely popular in Asia and less popular in the West for one reason and one reason only: A completely failed marketing campaign!
The Asian marketing campaign focused on the beauty of the world. Go back and reveiw the CGI movies. It's all about the poetry.
The North American marketting campaign focused on PvP. Every review, every interview, every website advertisement, even the E3 banner.
Hardcore PvP accounts for less than 30% of the MMORPG market. In some games it accounts for less than 5% of the total playerbase. For the hardcore PvP enthusiast there are dozens of games with better PvP systems than Lineage II.
NC Soft NA failed to market the game on the basis of its strengths (stunning graphics, excellent social systems, player-run economy) and instead focused on the most minor aspects of the game (castle seiges, wyverns) when neither of those systems were even in place at the time the game was introduced to the market!
The problem is not the game. The problem is it was marketed to the wrong segment of the MMORPG audience.
It's not about "culture". It's about you and what you personally want out of a game.
I'm sorry Bk but you are not entirey correct.
Yes... individuals do make their own decisions but you cannot discount the differences in culture.
Look at Soccer.. it has taken a long long time to break into the american market. American's really didn't quite "get it". they weren't inspired by the game as much as other countries.
What about in the olympics, Curling (spelling?) People swear this is a great sport but a good amount of americans aren't quite enthused.
Look at EQ2. When they released the game for Japanese Audiences they added SOGA models and added the point and click method of movement. Sure... they are individuals capable of adapting or accepting but I'm sure there is somehting to the reasoning why this was added. There is nothing wrong with cultures responding to different methods because it is preferred. heck... you will even find differences in the same country.
When I took my cross country trip we ended up somewhere in Montana and decided to go into a diner and order. When the waitress came we started to order exactly like order here in Boston or in New York.
The Waitress and the cook starting lauging. Apparently they do things a little slower there. Things are a bit more friendly and open.
If you discount the differences in culture then you discount what makes the world's people unique and special. We all want the same things we just show it differently.
I worked for a scottish company comprised of English, Scots adn Irish. Though it seemed we were very similiar when it came down to it there were many differences.
As for the marketing.. sure... you are correct. Bad Bad Marketing. Though I'm not so sure that this game would have maintained the playerbase it got at release wit different marketing. Some of the complaints were valid becuase players don't necessarily want or like grind... players don't necesarrily want/like open pvp.
The idea of the discussion was the possibility that the Korean market might feel that certain aspects of the game were "fine as they are" because there are differences. However... without anyone who has played on the Korean servers it was hard to know for sure.
Oh.. and have you ever seen the Korean videos where they get ready for raids? It's not at all like we do it and quite frankly I think their way is superior. They are orderly and methodical. It is a site to see.
IF this is true then the developers have been making some "Ultimately Stupid Mistakes(tm)".
And specifically in this case the racial design. The thing here is the Koreans are worrying to much about "Looks". What they need to be more concerened with is "Game Mechanics/Balance".
See, we can boil 'American' preference down to a single equation.
[Performance > Looks]
The character can be the gawdawful uggliest thing ever forced upon a computer game ever.....but if it can kill anything and everything without blinking, everyone and their dyslexic cat will play it. (Call this "The Power Gamers Corrollary" if you will.)
An "Americanized" player is going to do everything they can to maximize their characters abilities for the greatest effect with the least amount of penalty possible. And if one character has a better 'base' than the other, they will switch. And looks have NOTHING to do with it.
So perhaps a Korean sees this in choosing a character.
1) Looks
2) Desired Playstyle (Melee/Mage/Healer etc.)
3) Economy (Get stuff)
4) Downtime
5) Performance (Easier to get groups and less 'rushing'.)
While an "American" sees this:
1) Performance (Ability to Kill things, solo ability is a big +)
2) Downtime (Ability to take damage or reduce regen times)
3) Desired Playstyle (Melee/Mage/Healer etc.)
4) Economy (Get stuff.)
5) Looks
In short, if the Korean Developers want to appeal to the American/Euro market more, they need to worry less about looks and more about gameplay and game balance.
I wouldn't say hardcore korean gamers go for looks over performance ... people play games till they die in those Korean Internet cafes.
Drop out of school and play for a week without sunlight and only eating instant noodles? no problem!! Die in the bathroom from a heart attack? No problem either ... quit work because of starcraft? no problem either .. die from 40+ hour marathon session? inevitable
Koreans are also more Clan/team orientated then the Western world. When considering classes they'd decide with their friends for best performance rather then individual efforts.
If there's a reason why classes are poorly represented over there its not because of the look of the races, its because of the real money trading (RMT) and the pro farming. Mages need to rest in PvE giving downtime, trains of melee farmers (also using manor) do not.
I actually started playing quite recently because i wanted to test out PvP, since its the only thing we generic westerners know of lineage2. pvp, pvp, and more of it. I tried out RFo beta in euro, and wanted an reference, since asians kept comparing to L2.
What did i find out? i logged in, and like the graphics better than RFo, or wow. but more, i liked the female dwarf look, so it looks as ill keep playing L2 since it looks amazing :)
It's well documented that Koreans don't PVP like we do. I don't remember ever seeing a screenshot of a high level korean character that had more than 10 PVPs, with most of them have 1 or 2.
The Bishop in our clan probably has more PVPs than entire Korean alliances added up.
This is another reason why we see PVP as unbalanced. In korea, they have those lame organized self-buffed 1v1s, you know, the "korean style" arean fights. NC doens't care about the NA market, they tweak the game for korea and we take whatever they have. That simple.
This is another reason why we see PVP as unbalanced. In korea, they have those lame organized self-buffed 1v1s, you know, the "korean style" arean fights. NC doens't care about the NA market, they tweak the game for korea and we take whatever they have. That simple.
Actually... those appeal to me. But then again I've always played for my own reasons so I don't expect others to share the same interests.
The article you quote is about the graphical design and character "look" of races in Lineage II, but you're starting a discussion about race+class balance.
Character cosmetics do not effect class balance. You're referencing a quote about apples in a topic about oranges.
Both discussions are interesting (cosmetics by country & and class/race balance in L2), but they don't really seem to me to have much bearing on each other.
Sure a theoretical "Server O" might play differently if almost everyone on "Server A" picked, for example, Orcs -- and everyone on some "Server D" picks, say for example, Dwarves.
In this example, "Server D" might have a greater abundance of nicer weapons because there were lots of dwarves around spoiling and crafting weapons.
In contrast, "Server O" might take castles sooner because they have better fighters. But that's a discussion about overall world play-out, not class balance. Orcs are still better fighters than dwarves, no matter how many there are of either on a server, or what they *look* like.
I still STRONGLY disagree with DE females being more attractive than LE females to the western gaming nations. Sorry but I just don't see the logic in thinking otherwise. Modeling is easily one of the largest indicators. Modeling in western world and compare it to Japanese 'idols' or whatever they are called and i think its safe to say Japanese are all about gargantuan mammaries and western are more about athletic and lean looks. Us Americans love [censored] too but once it goes over C cup it starts to become unattractive, lol.
I still STRONGLY disagree with DE females being more attractive than LE females to the western gaming nations. Sorry but I just don't see the logic in thinking otherwise. Modeling is easily one of the largest indicators. Modeling in western world and compare it to Japanese 'idols' or whatever they are called and i think its safe to say Japanese are all about gargantuan mammaries and western are more about athletic and lean looks. Us Americans love [censored] too but once it goes over C cup it starts to become unattractive, lol.
Modeling images are targeted at females. Take a look at women's magazines and compare them to men's magazines. Big (no pun intended) difference.
I still STRONGLY disagree with DE females being more attractive than LE females to the western gaming nations. Sorry but I just don't see the logic in thinking otherwise. Modeling is easily one of the largest indicators. Modeling in western world and compare it to Japanese 'idols' or whatever they are called and i think its safe to say Japanese are all about gargantuan mammaries and western are more about athletic and lean looks. Us Americans love [censored] too but once it goes over C cup it starts to become unattractive, lol.
This coming from a person from a country which has the most breast enlargements in the world.
I still STRONGLY disagree with DE females being more attractive than LE females to the western gaming nations. Sorry but I just don't see the logic in thinking otherwise. Modeling is easily one of the largest indicators. Modeling in western world and compare it to Japanese 'idols' or whatever they are called and i think its safe to say Japanese are all about gargantuan mammaries and western are more about athletic and lean looks. Us Americans love [censored] too but once it goes over C cup it starts to become unattractive, lol.
This coming from a person from a country which has the most breast enlargements in the world.
You sure that isn't Brazil? I know that spend the most, per capita, for plastic surgery.
I still STRONGLY disagree with DE females being more attractive than LE females to the western gaming nations. Sorry but I just don't see the logic in thinking otherwise. Modeling is easily one of the largest indicators. Modeling in western world and compare it to Japanese 'idols' or whatever they are called and i think its safe to say Japanese are all about gargantuan mammaries and western are more about athletic and lean looks. Us Americans love [censored] too but once it goes over C cup it starts to become unattractive, lol.
This coming from a person from a country which has the most breast enlargements in the world.
The thing is most men really do not like large breasts, well not overly large I should say, lol. They may look great in a bikini or lingerie but other than that, they can be just as unsexy as they are ****. Now I realize that in the game all we ever see them in is their armor, which many can be compared to bikinis :), but there is still a natural attraction to correctly proportioned mammaries or at least non exagerated ones. I don't understand why people think men LOVE extremely large breasts, maybe 14 year old boys who don't know whats going on but men simply in general don't care for large breasts. I'd rather have a lean, athletic women with breasts that move naturally (lol) over some science experiement with stretch marks and scars on their chest. Again we don't see that in the game but the mental connection is still there I believe and thus not all are mostly attracted to it.