Does my elven elder ever stop sucking at life. I mean sure we are great at xp leeching but erm...when the hell do i become useful as a player. Nobody seems to want me around or they seem to enjoy pk'ing me.
You will need a good clan, and I mean GOOD clan. EE's, IMO, are slightly less useful than even bishops in PVE. Without a good clan you'll just want to quit, seriously. I was almost at that point before. and I'm not an EE :/
Does my elven elder ever stop sucking at life. I mean sure we are great at xp leeching but erm...when the hell do i become useful as a player. Nobody seems to want me around or they seem to enjoy pk'ing me.
EE sucks, go re-roll now, dont listen to any1, they freakin suck and are worthless. Just reroll now and go SE.
EE sucks, go re-roll now, dont listen to any1, they freakin suck and are worthless. Just reroll now and go SE.
dont listen to people like this :P EE is less desireable in pve usually, but in pvp you will be loved more than any other healer. EE gets a nuker sleep, PR, fast fast heals and nice defensive buffs, which are less than great for grinding exp, but very useful against other players.
i myself played an EE up to 69 so far, its been a little slow leveling but with a good enough clan and/or friends to help you out its definitely worth it in the end.
-EE also makes a gread healer in raids, no fear of a group wipe with PR in your party!
I've got a good clan but we arent always all on at the same time all the time...so it's kinda rough. I usually end up duo'ing with a gladiator who is roughly the same lvl as me. We were able to get me 1.2lvls in 6hours today but it gets REALLY boring day in and day out...we arent big enough for raids or mass scale pvp yet. I have debated rerolling but i've kept putting it off.
if you want pvp later, and wish to play a healer in your pvp EE is definitely worth keeping.... i know the grind is a little tough, try to mix it up a little. even if its not the best exp go somewhere new for an hour or two, or party with someone different. just a change of scenery can work wonders sometimes! if you have an ok weapon try some debuffing here and there (windshackle is nice when duo with a melee) or run up and melee next to your gladi for a little while between resting, dont stay in the same groove all the time. :p
EE is good for nothing, if you have to use party recall then your group sucks and your hunting way over your head. Hardly anyone uses a pure shield tank these days, a decent DD with VR is much better. DD + SE > Tank + EE.
Or you could have a SwS or dwarf tank - since whatever else anyone might say about Taraza, we've actually got a video of him/her keeping aggro without hate.
Either way, it's not a matter of "what's best" - especially not "what's best for a grind group", as not all people play this game to PvE. "What's best" is an investment of half a year until the next chronicle, you never know what might happen next and be best or not.
Look at the basic playstyle of the classes and see whether or not you like it.
EE's arent the best healers of the bunch. Still if people have to choose between the EE or nothing they will choose the EE. But it is kinda sad you have to compare yourself with nothing to make yourself feel usefull.
EE's are useless, i can not think of anything special they have. The only thing they are good for are a couple of buffs, which arnt vital anyway. A SE has EE beat in all situations. In pvp i would not take EE over SE, EE cant buff me with focus or dw, which are very important buffs.
EEs are perfect in groups with a WC or prophet that also involve an ES for purify
I never understand this. I use sleep to prevent paralyze, works fine. Sure, you'll get an odd paralyze here or there when sleep fails, but its pretty rare. DVC's not a real problem anymore for me. EE+WC or EE+Prophet works. Just keep on your toes.
Let's face it, we've had 4 chronicles. In the latest one, EE's even got nerfed (PR/Return reuse longer). NCSoft wants everyone to roll nukers and SE's and BD's. Tons of suggestions have been made for EE's. And every single one has been ignored. See the pattern?
WC has most of SE mele buffs (at higher lvls) and hastle, and what WC doesnt have EE can provide, also EE has some buffs which nether WC or SE has and while those are mostly defencive it's better with them them without. Also also EE has good heals and high cast speed to help with those heals and sleeps.
Rather have a bishop for healing, and WC can buff agility, which is EE main buff. Only thing EE has exclusive is shield defense rate buffs, but with VR on (pve) who freakin needs those >.>..
Also WC doesnt get high lvls of his buffs untill very high level, it takes ages to get focus 3, in which case ill be choosing an SE thanks.
EE is really nice for Gank parties, go in, drop a few enemies, PR to safety. So for pvp, EE > SE big time. EE casts faster and has PR. SE got VR(totally useless in pvp) and some offensive buffs, that nukers dont need and other classes can fare without too. Or can get them as CH buffs/from scrolls so EE > SE in pvp.
Gank parties is lame, fight and then stay imo, only cowards PR out. Theres no way you would want an EE over an SE for pvp, empower focus and death whisper own shield block and agility....
Ganking is the smart way in a Ally war, dont care if you think it's lame or something. Point is to kill the enemy, as fast as possible, with as low casualties as possible, and thus EE > SE.
Focus and Empower can be gotten from Scrolls, and frankly, you can buff up in town before going to gank so the SE just needs to sit in town, buff a few buffs and then the Gank group goes with the EE.
Aye, EE for pvp(good res too, dont need to call the Bishop always :P ) and SE for pve. In parties that require buffers and recharging, EE can be used too, as long as there's a primary buffer too.
people who think EE is worthless either never played one, or never played with one who was played well. other healer classes have better buffs, or more heals true, but why do people play SPS instead of SE all the time? its speed. all those fancy heals wont be able to do crap if your too slow to cast them in a tight spot. EE will be a little less valuable in pve (unless perhaps your in a raid group) but still a good healer. you'll also have an 80% res if you max your res %, see Here (http://boards.lineage2.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=401548&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#401548) for help with your WIT to get it that high.
i love playing mine in sieges and raids, heal so fast its much easier to keep my clannies up and alive than if i was standing around casting for twice as long, and i've never had any complaints about my heals being less than useful either. PR is a great tool for rescue missions or raid/pvp gone wrong, on top of fast heals EE is an invaluable asset to have when you're in an active pvp clan. :P
--a suggestion, although not reccommended unless you have severe trouble leveling. If your clan does not pvp very much yet and your left with second healer duty. going +men -wit makes an EE a great heal/MP battery without casting so slow you might as well buy healpots to stay alive between heals. i would NOT suggest this unless your having a lot of trouble and your clan is not so great for groups!! i used this setup for quite a few levels on my EE while my clan was neutral, and easily became the best friend of all the mages and archer's we had. the extra MP really helps with recharges and heals as long as you arent fighting other players. and again, do -not- kill your speed unless your levelling is complete crap, this is a last resort setup because it will significantly hamper your pvp performance, and since this is where you will excell its better to keep untill its 'try something new or reroll' time. :p --subtracting WIT will also affect your res, please dont go +MEN unless your having huge group trouble, i cant stress that enough!
I think we all know healers are worthless in sieges and most mass pvp, they die instantly, thats the first thing people target. Anyone wearing robes gets targetted first, be it mages or healers. And is the casting speed difference between EE and Bishop as significant as you make it? Battle heal is instant anyway. I still think this class is worthless and it needs some ++boost.
You also argue that buffs come in the form of scrolls, well news flash m8, so do blessed rez and blessed soe.
This is going a bit off course, but has anyone tried light armor? With a wit tattoo, light armor, a shield, and a mana up weapon, an EE is still fast enough to heal well, has enough mp to buff/recharge some, and has a reasonable degree of defense. Mind you, I wouldn't want to hunt in light armor, but for sieges it has served me very well.
Not always instantly, in the last couple sieges and mass pvp I was able to not only rez someone but get a mass rez off too. The nice thing about mass pvp anything you can mix with everyone else and it improves a healers survival rate greatly :)
EE's and bishops with their quick heals can save people, sure you might die right away but it's not always 100% going to happen like that.
people who think EE is worthless either never played one, or never played with one who was played well. other healer classes have better buffs, or more heals true, but why do people play SPS instead of SE all the time? its speed. all those fancy heals wont be able to do crap if your too slow to cast them in a tight spot. EE will be a little less valuable in pve (unless perhaps your in a raid group) but still a good healer. you'll also have an 80% res if you max your res %, see Here (http://boards.lineage2.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=401548&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#401548) for help with your WIT to get it that high.
i love playing mine in sieges and raids, heal so fast its much easier to keep my clannies up and alive than if i was standing around casting for twice as long, and i've never had any complaints about my heals being less than useful either. PR is a great tool for rescue missions or raid/pvp gone wrong, on top of fast heals EE is an invaluable asset to have when you're in an active pvp clan. :P
--a suggestion, although not reccommended unless you have severe trouble leveling. If your clan does not pvp very much yet and your left with second healer duty. going +men -wit makes an EE a great heal/MP battery without casting so slow you might as well buy healpots to stay alive between heals. i would NOT suggest this unless your having a lot of trouble and your clan is not so great for groups!! i used this setup for quite a few levels on my EE while my clan was neutral, and easily became the best friend of all the mages and archer's we had. the extra MP really helps with recharges and heals as long as you arent fighting other players. and again, do -not- kill your speed unless your levelling is complete crap, this is a last resort setup because it will significantly hamper your pvp performance, and since this is where you will excell its better to keep untill its 'try something new or reroll' time. :p --subtracting WIT will also affect your res, please dont go +MEN unless your having huge group trouble, i cant stress that enough!
i can agree that folks who are so down on EE have decided that they wish to receive those buffs for offensive uses and forget that there is a second part to the fighting process - defense. and then the recovery part (healing and recharging). with a well skilled EE, that defense (buffs) is very useful, and the recovery (heal and regen) can be much quicker than without the EE in your party. If you're 'bored' .. then for gods sake get a decent weapon and start swinging! there is NOTHING that says the healer can not deal damage. i spent a majority of my leveling time working solo. first thing i did was ditch the staff and grab a set of fists (or duals for those who prefer). and i always carried heal potions, for use when my mana was down. but you folks are always talking about the healers and other characters at 50 - 60 - and 75 levels ... you forget, sometimes, that there are a WHOLE LOT of folks who are still at 10 - 30 - 40 levels. these levels are needed to be able to perfect their skills and attributes. not just 'grind' and 'die'.
personally, i leave tatoos for others. for me the deficits far outweighed the positives. i'll use my gear to alter my personal balances.
and lately i continue to see request for healers for raid groups... guess what - they keep getting pk'd early and often trying to earn those necessary skills and levels. LEAVE THE LOWBIES ALONE. (THIS to those who can not seem to let the youngers be!!!) someone gave you a chance to learn, let them have that same chance. maybe THEN, you'll have those healers you want for your raids and parties.
Defense isnt needed for pve from lvl 1-mid 60's. Its all about offense, thats the way it is. As for the newbs, they need to learn about pvp so i say let the grifing continue, muahaha.
Funny, I thought you said that Gank Parties were lame, but griefing noobs is ok? Hm...
Anyway, my friend plays an EE, and I would rather have her in a raid party than any other healer. I have tanked numerous RB's (yeah I dont have hate, we were low on tanks that day) and the EE heals and recharges were the only thing keeping me alive. When I was at good HP, the EE would recharge me so I could keep using my specials or would recharge the bish and SE so they could keep popping heals. When I got low on HP, the EE would add heals, and the fast cast speed kept me alive. Though I thnk they arent all that great in duo PvE (I need VR to live in PvE :( ) I think they are great in group PvE and PvP of any kind. Hell, even the nukers cant get me if we PR in time :)
Same old lame excuses to try and make an EE sound useful, bottomline is they arnt, bishop is better at healing then EE. SE is better at buffing then EE. Anything an EE can do a scroll can do. As for the griefing noobs, i was being sarcastic.
Same old lame excuses to try and make an EE sound useful, bottomline is they arnt, bishop is better at healing then EE. SE is better at buffing then EE. Anything an EE can do a scroll can do. As for the griefing noobs, i was being sarcastic.
you are such a bigot! just because YOU see no use for this class, does not mean that there is no use for this class. YOU are NOT GOD, nor GM, nor PROGRAMMER!! so how about you just set your behind out there and YOU work an EE and tell me after you make it to where i am that there is no need for EE either solo, duo, or group.
Convince me a good reason why EE is more usefull then a SE/Bishop/Scroll and i will shut up. This class is gimped and needs a boost, and you whining how ownage your EE is is actually screwing you over cos if all EE say they are ownage they wont ever get changed.
I can think of only one thing good an EE can do, thats buff advanced block on a tank whos fighting RB, then the EE can soe and go away.
Same old lame excuses to try and make an EE sound useful, bottomline is they arnt, bishop is better at healing then EE. SE is better at buffing then EE. Anything an EE can do a scroll can do. As for the griefing noobs, i was being sarcastic.
I'm not making excuses for anything...what a wierd post. I find them useful. You dont. End of story. Stop saying that a class is useless when it clearly isn't. I find anyone who heals me while I am being hammered by a boss to be useful frankly. I love EE's for the good combination of healer/recharger, SE is good as a Buffer/Recharger, Bishop is good as a Rezzer/Healer. Each of these classes seem to fit nicely into their roles, and just because you as a pure melee DD char find the SE buffs to be all important (I do too) that doesnt make the class useless.
I think of it this way.
PvE melee party, SE better then EE (focus/dw/vr)
PvE Mage party, SE better then EE (empower)
PvP melee party, SE better then EE (we like the buffs and we are melee we dont want to get recalled)
PvP mage party, SE better again, the buffs make them wipe everyone out and they dont ever need a recall.
I see EE as a supporting support class.
Same old lame excuses to try and make an EE sound useful, bottomline is they arnt, bishop is better at healing then EE. SE is better at buffing then EE. Anything an EE can do a scroll can do. As for the griefing noobs, i was being sarcastic.
Yer wrong, I found out the thing EE do the BEST in this game, leech xp to get levels. I often duo with my clan leader who is a level 73 WS if the gladiator isnt on, and have no trouble keeping him alive now, WS + Golem = mmmmm. With me and my gladi friend chain killing whites on sunday from 1:15-5pm he went from 45-46 and I went from 44-45 (we both started around 2%. Non stop killing wasnt so bad. I'm starting to find my niche as an EE/gimp. While I am frustrated by having trouble getting groups, our clan often will get full groups going with 1dorfs, SE,EE(me), WC,Prophet and a BD, and the rest nukers/archers and we never stop killing. WC and Prophet often are swinging with the melees and we just run around fer a long time often having trouble deciding what to buff. Its going better, not great but better. My heals are finally starting to move the WS health bar! XP Leeching FTW! However some useful spells that another class doesnt have would be nice...
Since this is the Suggestions forum, perhaps I can make a suggestion. It seems to me that EE and SE should be polar opposites in the game, which they, for the most part, are. SE gets offensive buffs, EE gets defensive ones. SE, however, gets one buff that, for melee DD's, makes hunting almost constant (no down time). VR is hugely useful to the melee DD, and it strikes me that the EE do not get a buff that really measures up to it.
In the interest of keeping the classes close to opposites, perhaps EE should get a fundamentally opposite buff. VR restores HP when you hit a mob. EE could perhaps get a buff that damages a mob when it hits you. Yeah, damage reflection buffs already exist, but I think it would be cool and might make good sense if EE got em too.
Any takers?
They need something thats for sure, cos right now they are gimped. Being water god suck ups they should get some water based stuff which would make them more desirable, but you cant really fix a class by giving it new buffs, as inevitably that makes another class even stronger and people will then whine about that class.
Nothing wrong with that =). Just imagine how fast the big dragons go down. Sacrafice the lowest lvl person so it hits for mega dmg hehe, let the beast kill itself!.
Purify is not required for leveling in area's with paralysis. It's simple enough to sleep mobs that are casting para, you just need a healer (or nuker) that's paying attention. Even if you slip up once or twice, it's not the end of the world, as long as the healer isn't paralysed you're ok (the same goes for healers with purify).
I think of it this way.
PvE melee party, SE better then EE (focus/dw/vr)
PvE Mage party, SE better then EE (empower)
PvP melee party, SE better then EE (we like the buffs and we are melee we dont want to get recalled)
PvP mage party, SE better again, the buffs make them wipe everyone out and they dont ever need a recall.
I see EE as a supporting support class.
An SE alone is better than an EE yes. However stick a WC or Prophet in any of those melee groups, and what does the SE offer that an EE doesn't?
I'm suprised a melee charcter doesn't like buffs such as resist shock, or maybe bless shield and advanced block (for shield users) in PvP. It makes surviving those archers a lot easier.
You forgot to include archer parties by the way, which in my experience much perfer the Prophet+EE combo.
Purify is not required for leveling in area's with paralysis. It's simple enough to sleep mobs that are casting para, you just need a healer (or nuker) that's paying attention. Even if you slip up once or twice, it's not the end of the world, as long as the healer isn't paralysed you're ok (the same goes for healers with purify).
I think of it this way.
PvE melee party, SE better then EE (focus/dw/vr)
PvE Mage party, SE better then EE (empower)
PvP melee party, SE better then EE (we like the buffs and we are melee we dont want to get recalled)
PvP mage party, SE better again, the buffs make them wipe everyone out and they dont ever need a recall.
I see EE as a supporting support class.
An SE alone is better than an EE yes. However stick a WC or Prophet in any of those melee groups, and what does the SE offer that an EE doesn't?
I'm suprised a melee charcter doesn't like buffs such as resist shock, or maybe bless shield and advanced block (for shield users) in PvP. It makes surviving those archers a lot easier.
You forgot to include archer parties by the way, which in my experience much perfer the Prophet+EE combo.
Vampiric rage is overrated, it just means the healer can be lazy and not bother healing. Certainly not required for leveling with no downtime. Even resist shock increases kill speed more than vampiric rage.
An SE alone is better than an EE yes. However stick a WC or Prophet in any of those melee groups, and what does the SE offer that an EE doesn't?
Err if you have a WC the EE becomes pointless, ill take the SE because it doesnt have to be a massive level like the WC does to have high effect buffs, SE gets VR focus & DW effect 3-4 much sooner then the WC does.
You make EE sound like a support-support class, they are not vital, just nice to have along, but then id rather have the space for a DD or go without for more exp.
Vampiric rage is overrated, it just means the healer can be lazy and not bother healing. Certainly not required for leveling with no downtime. Even resist shock increases kill speed more than vampiric rage.
LOL no.
Also as for EE not needing purify, its a MP waste to have to sleep the para mobs when you can just /unpara when ever it casts and lands, thus saveing more MP on the SE to recharge.
"LOL no", is such a convincing argument, I seriously cannot refute that logic :).
Ok, sure purify saves a little mp, but as I said it might be nice to have but it's not required.
Err if you have a WC the EE becomes pointless, ill take the SE because it doesnt have to be a massive level like the WC does to have high effect buffs, SE gets VR focus & DW effect 3-4 much sooner then the WC does.
Why does an EE become pointless if you have a WC? I guess you don't need a healer/recharger (an EE is a better recharger than an SE by the way), with a few additional buffs that the SE wouldn't be able to provide. Oh, and sleep, while root is nice sleep is usually a better crowd control spell in melee groups.
So when the WC gets to higher levels, why take an SE over an EE?
You also didn't state why you should take a Prophet + SE over a Prophet + EE combo. I'm sure you'll just say Vampiric Rage though :).
VR is the most vital and over power'd melee buff around. Its owns everything, melee groups dont need a healer all they need is a SE to maintain them, SE provdes all the basic attack buffs and if we get into trouble can send out a few heals. WC has agility buff, leaving only resist shock (worthless imo) and shield blocks. Being hardcore melee i dont want shield block and resist shock is crap, i get lvl 4 resist shock from my clan hall and dark blue skeleton mobs in DV still land stun on me often. Ill take SE + Prophet over Prophet + EE because SE gives emp/vr/purify. The difference between SE & EE healers/recharges isnt significant enough to make me bother with an EE. Face it, EE are very rarely needed, if at all.
Did someone pass a rule that every party has to pick either an SE or an EE, but can't have both? Parties I have been in with both types seemed to work much better than parties with only one, or the other.
Part of the challenge of this game is to find those combinations of skills that fit the tasks you are doing today. Those tasks may be different tomorrow. It is better to have more types in your clan, so you can change the mix of skills to fit the task at hand. I don't tell anyone their class is useless; and I know we need to help every class level up so we have more skills to choose from in the future.
I have the face the choice of choosing the healer in my parties all the time, if we need a healer we shout LF SE, not EE, i prefer to keep the party as small as pos so takeing an EE is a waste, it doesnt provide enough benefits to negate the exp loss. EE needs a boost, which is what the argument is about, stop justifying the EE, you want your class stronger dont you?
I admit Vampiric rage is overpowered, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible to level (and level well) without it, in a melee group. Vampiric rage is also a lot less useful in some of the new areas, when mobs nuke for large amounts of damage (AoE sometimes), VR won't return enough to get people back onto full health.
Resist shock does need a bit of improving, it seems to prevent maybe 1/4 stuns in PvE, it's actually quite helpful when mobs AoE stun. However in PvP it's (usually) a, lot better. As for shield buffs, sure you don't need them being a gladiator, but they're nice for tanks, and even nukers if you're going up against archers.
I'm certainly not saying that an EE is hugely better than SEs (I'd say SEs are a little better). What I'm trying to do, is get people out of the mentality of "needing" an SE and not accepting an EE in their place. The perception that EEs are gimped and can't provide anything is wrong, and it's what makes it more difficult for (some) EEs to actually find groups in the first place.
Edit: You posted before I finished typing mine :).
I have the face the choice of choosing the healer in my parties all the time, if we need a healer we shout LF SE, not EE, i prefer to keep the party as small as pos so takeing an EE is a waste, it doesnt provide enough benefits to negate the exp loss.
Don't know why you'd say that, I had a pretty decent group the other day in Disciples. 1 SwS, 1 Prophet, 1 BD, 1 AW and 1 EE, we didn't have any problems and made good exp. Maybe with an SE the SE could recharge a little more, but it was good enough exp for the rest of the group not to want to wait around for an SE.
Certainly I'd like to have my class boosted, but in the meantime, I'd like to get a group without people thinking I'm useless.
I have the face the choice of choosing the healer in my parties all the time, if we need a healer we shout LF SE, not EE, i prefer to keep the party as small as pos so takeing an EE is a waste, it doesnt provide enough benefits to negate the exp loss. EE needs a boost, which is what the argument is about, stop justifying the EE, you want your class stronger dont you?
yes, every class want to be stronger. but for you to continue denegrating EE, just because of your personal preference for SE is not going help. the suggestions that EE have their skills strengthened, such as making sleep or root a mob AoE and mob specific, or granting some of the skills a greater strength or longer duration .. instead of having buffs last for 20 mins increase the duration to 40 min. or those few offensive skills such as wind strike be able to actually do damage (say 600 or 700 pts for each level of skill attained) thereby be of use as a distance weapon. (instead of just agitating the attacking mob.) and maybe i'm exagerating on the damages a might, but why give EE a useful spell and not let them use is after they reach lvl 20? or rather it is still useful, if you want to get a mobs attention, kind of like a spitball in the back of it's head. but, these are relatively useful suggestions. telling folks that having an EE is a waste and they should just save their time and re-roll for an SE, that is NOT a useful suggestion. and if your whole campaign is nothing but SE and glads.... you are missing a whole lot of other fun skills to work with. this is about creating a mixed group of character and skils that will compliment each other. and yes i have been each class and each race at least once. and i have my personal favorites, but i am always willing to work with just about anyone willing to work.
VR is totally overpowered, no spell should all but eliminate the need for a healer. But I can go from popping heal pots all the time to using none with VR on my melee chars. And sleeping against paralysis? OMG. Para doesn't always land, that seems like a waste not to mention hard to catch in time every time. I'd rather have purify.
All that being said, I will never understand why bishops got ALL the heals and EE's didn't. It's bizzare, but it still makes me glad I at least picked the second best gimp healer for PVE and deleted my future EE long ago.
Stop arguing that we're not gimped please, if we say we're gimped maybe NCSoft will listen to us....just maybe.
we ARE a gimped class, Elmo... but that doesnt mean we are completely "worthless" as SOME people seem to be convinced we are... EE does definitely need a boost, however there are still places for us and things we can still do to function as a healer.
calling a class worthless or useless when you dont or havent played it is crappy. btw, SPS doesnt your sig say your a gladi? stop downplaying other classes more than is neccesary when your own is less than perfect, it makes you look bad :p
<turns off defensive EE mode and goes back to afk shopping>
As a solo summoner, I sleep against paralysis, stun and silence. Personal experience says once a group is actually on a mob, it won't pull any tricks (and die in one of its slow casts). If it's an add (they're what's dangerous for sleep/silence/etc.) it should be slept anyway.
There's also, of course, the stunners (got a dwarf or human tank in your group? They can do this if they're not the dumb kind who waste their stun up front), or casting silence on a mob.
Does my elven elder ever stop sucking at life. I mean sure we are great at xp leeching but erm...when the hell do i become useful as a player. Nobody seems to want me around or they seem to enjoy pk'ing me.
EE sucks, go re-roll now, dont listen to any1, they freakin suck and are worthless. Just reroll now and go SE.
Glad > EE fool o.O.
And actually your wrong i have indeed played a lvl 67 EE on PTS, and i hated it, it was junk, i went and made an SE instead. The class IS worthless. EE needs massive boosting, period. Why do you think there are so few EE in-game? Because they suck I know you will defned your class and call me a jerk, i dont care, it needs to be said.
And as for gladiator being less then perfect, of course, all classes are less then perfect, but if i ever hit lvl 78 and become a duelist, i will be perfect as focus rage > all.
Personally I think EVERY class has a place to do something. People can say this class is better than this one, this class is better than that one but the truth be told there is always a situation or group setup where that simply is not true.
-EE+Prophet for archer party ANY day of the week. An SE has nothing to offer except maybe Root, which a Prophet can handle just fine with a EE recharging when needed.
-EE/Bishop+Warcryer for any melee group. What use does a SE have when you have a WC and no mage DDs? NONE. Purify is NOT NEEDED, but would be a welcome addition, besides even if you feel you MUST have it then its Bishop>SE.
-EE/Bishop>SE in PvP/seiges no matter what. Again, what do SE have that is better.......nothing except group heal which isn't going to help much in most PvP/seige situations. Now I agree a Bishop is better than EE in seiges but even then there is situation-dependant advantages, like Resist stun for one. And of course Party Recall in case you get ganked outside of seige grounds, if you are in seige grounds you just take your deaths like soliders :p.
Then when it comes to 3rd class skills EE come out on top over SE. EE get a Dark resist buff and get a debuff that takes away Wind Walk, and I assume Song of Wind as well, whereas SE don't get any cool resist magic buff and they get a debuff that makes people lose shield buffs.......yay :eek:. Also I'm sure there are TOO many people looking forward to using Prophecy of Water. Thats not saying people aren't looking forward to Prophecy of Wind but from the sounds of it Water is absolutely disgusting.
SE are great, no doubt, but there are plenty of situations where they are not top healer. SE still got nuker groups and Warcryer deficient groups, they are not bad at all.
-EE/Bishop+Warcryer for any melee group. What use does a SE have when you have a WC and no mage DDs? NONE. Purify is NOT NEEDED, but would be a welcome addition, besides even if you feel you MUST have it then its Bishop>SE.
Lets see, WC does not get high lvl buffs effect escpecially VR for a long long time, so all groups take a SE thanks v much, cant make do with lvl 1-2 VR. So waiting for lvl 74 to make an EE usefull? lol...
-EE/Bishop>SE in PvP/seiges no matter what. Again, what do SE have that is better.......nothing except group heal which isn't going to help much in most PvP/seige situations. Now I agree a Bishop is better than EE in seiges but even then there is situation-dependant advantages, like Resist stun for one. And of course Party Recall in case you get ganked outside of seige grounds, if you are in seige grounds you just take your deaths like soliders :p.
Ok so who is gunna buff your archers focus/dw....AND FYI resist shock is weak, i get stunned 2/3 times by dark blue mobs with my clan hall resist shock lvl 4.
Then when it comes to 3rd class skills EE come out on top over SE. EE get a Dark resist buff and get a debuff that takes away Wind Walk, and I assume Song of Wind as well, whereas SE don't get any cool resist magic buff and they get a debuff that makes people lose shield buffs.......yay :eek:. Also I'm sure there are TOO many people looking forward to using Prophecy of Water. Thats not saying people aren't looking forward to Prophecy of Wind but from the sounds of it Water is absolutely disgusting.
-EE/Bishop+Warcryer for any melee group. What use does a SE have when you have a WC and no mage DDs? NONE. Purify is NOT NEEDED, but would be a welcome addition, besides even if you feel you MUST have it then its Bishop>SE.
Lets see, WC does not get high lvl buffs effect escpecially VR for a long long time, so all groups take a SE thanks v much, cant make do with lvl 1-2 VR. So waiting for lvl 74 to make an EE usefull? lol...
-EE/Bishop>SE in PvP/seiges no matter what. Again, what do SE have that is better.......nothing except group heal which isn't going to help much in most PvP/seige situations. Now I agree a Bishop is better than EE in seiges but even then there is situation-dependant advantages, like Resist stun for one. And of course Party Recall in case you get ganked outside of seige grounds, if you are in seige grounds you just take your deaths like soliders :p.
Ok so who is gunna buff your archers focus/dw....AND FYI resist shock is weak, i get stunned 2/3 times by dark blue mobs with my clan hall resist shock lvl 4.
Then when it comes to 3rd class skills EE come out on top over SE. EE get a Dark resist buff and get a debuff that takes away Wind Walk, and I assume Song of Wind as well, whereas SE don't get any cool resist magic buff and they get a debuff that makes people lose shield buffs.......yay :eek:. Also I'm sure there are TOO many people looking forward to using Prophecy of Water. Thats not saying people aren't looking forward to Prophecy of Wind but from the sounds of it Water is absolutely disgusting.
Resist cancel ftw.
I don't consider one skill lvl much of a difference at all. VR lvl 3 to VR lvl 4 I cannot say is a noticable difference. It goes from like 15% to 20% absorbtion, not terribly more effective.
I wasn't too clear on the second thing you quoted that I stated. I meant that "EE/Bishop>SE as a PvP/Seige HEALER". I know I wasn't very clear :eek:, my bad.
Eva's Saints also get Arcane Protection if that is what you are referring to.
Not a problem mate :). If NCSoft listened to some of the constructive posts (ya i know some of mine arent very constructive) like yours, they might be able to improve on Lineage Two and make some of the classes that are rarely seen in the game viable to play at higher levels. Who knows, maybe one day NCSoft will stop look and listen.
no class is perfect, and theres no need to rag on a class and call them useless and worthless just because YOU dont like it. EE happens to be one of the most preferred healers on korean servers, which is why the other healer classes get more boosts. but that does NOT mean we are worthless! i can think gladi's or TKs are worthless if i want, but in no way would i chase someone off that character just because they werent convenient for me to group with. you've said you dont like EE, and stated your reasons. i and a few others DO like EE's, gimp or not... and that doesnt give you any right to say we're useless to everyone! your opinions are not facts, dont represent them as such.
Well, I'd say play a class you enjoy and fits your style of play, plus every class has a huge disadvantage somewhere, eg. SE = Not much hp and not much defense. See what I mean?
Play the class you enjoy trust me it is allways worth it. :)
Glad > EE fool o.O.
And actually your wrong i have indeed played a lvl 67 EE on PTS, and i hated it, it was junk, i went and made an SE instead. The class IS worthless. EE needs massive boosting, period. Why do you think there are so few EE in-game? Because they suck I know you will defned your class and call me a jerk, i dont care, it needs to be said.
And as for gladiator being less then perfect, of course, all classes are less then perfect, but if i ever hit lvl 78 and become a duelist, i will be perfect as focus rage > all.
Gladiators are never gonna be perfect, they suck at running speed. Plus at duelist they use light armour then, so if you use light armour fast archers could get ya easily, cause our running speed will still uber suck. :)
I'm prety sure most of you guys change your minds quite fast about how crappy they are :P Sure you need to be a shield user to actually get the benefits but yeah they are quite stronge.
Really? I'd like to know why they'd want to play a class with only one greater heal. I'm not being smart either.
Well because from what I have read Koreans use tanks as well. Also not all players spam soul shots. If the archer doesn't spam soul shots tanks can keep aggro perfectly fine. So if you got crazy useful shield buffs and a party that works as a group you only need one heal. There are ways to keep aggro very well. When I tank as a SwS I use my bow to land 2-3 shots first and then bust out the sword and shield and typically I can hold aggro fine except when I have soul shot spamming archers in the party. Same with partying with mages, only I think the way they catch aggro is based differently. It doesn't seem to be based on actual damage with nukers because I know for a fact they are doing more damage than me but I can still hold aggro if I use a bow to aggro and use one aggression cast, however with archers there is NO hate that can keep aggro when they crit.
Ping-ponged a target off a higher-level archer once with a servitor crit after he hit. :) But yeah, usually if they crit no getting it back. :'(
As for Koreans: Please remember that many Korean couples play, often with the girlfriend as a healer - and then, visuals seem to matter. I guess even if it's a normal player, visuals still matter. I've seen a few of their TV matches where a good PvPer went up with a crappy healer next to him*, usually played by a girl.
* Not to say anything about girls - but about girls that get roped into playing the game by their boyfriends.
i love playing my EE when theres a group to be had (had to have a little talk with some clannies over that one, but its all good now) the speed is very nice, shield buff works great on nukers with 1h weapons and on tanks... DA and pally we had always did much better with the Block buffs up. i've seen SE's with greater group heal who spam that more than regular heal, even when a normal group heal would have been overkill HP-wise. just because you HAVE more healing skills doesnt mean thier useful, how often are you in a group that really needs ~900 HP to more than 3 members? if its very often then your healer is doing a crappy job im sad to say. EE doesnt really need greater battle heal since thier faster than the other healers with normal heals anyway, hell i have -5 WIT on mine (MP battery purpose, SPS's last so much longer in duo) and i can still heal up our designated tank before the SE, whos higher level than me, can. its just so many people have the stubborn mindset of NEEDING a specific buff, or NEEDING that extra near-pointless heal skill because its 'better' ... bishop is better at EE in heals in most cases i will admit, but thier designed for heals, and thats all they get, its well deserved. but if you choose a SE over EE when both are available with same gear/level... and your ONLY reasons are greater group heal and/or VR... thats not really a healer, you dont have to watch HP to keep your people alive... just keep the buff up and make a macro to group heal every 5min and walk off till bufftime again. thats not even really playing a class lol, might as well be an NPC like the Baby pets. if you have a genuine argument preferring one over the other, say SE is good in all nuker groups with empower and recharge, thats fine! playing the VR/group heal card is just, well, those are better in a buffbot than a played healer, you dont really even need to look at your screen to play like that :p
I admit SE's have it easy with VR but that doesn't mean they can fall asleep on their keyboard. Just because they have a sweet hp leeching spell doesn't make them horrible healers.
I would think a tank would want a bishop just for restore life, with all that hp it's a mp drain to cast several greater heals when you can just use one spell. I don't know, I guess I'm just getting use to the massive damage groups take at 75+ in the new areas. I use all my heals these days.
Glad > EE fool o.O.
And actually your wrong i have indeed played a lvl 67 EE on PTS, and i hated it, it was junk, i went and made an SE instead. The class IS worthless. EE needs massive boosting, period. Why do you think there are so few EE in-game? Because they suck I know you will defned your class and call me a jerk, i dont care, it needs to be said.
And as for gladiator being less then perfect, of course, all classes are less then perfect, but if i ever hit lvl 78 and become a duelist, i will be perfect as focus rage > all.
Gladiators are never gonna be perfect, they suck at running speed. Plus at duelist they use light armour then, so if you use light armour fast archers could get ya easily, cause our running speed will still uber suck. :)
You got that from the description of duelists didnt you...Duelists/glads can use light armour, but Imperial crusader owns draco anyday, STR+2(imp) is the same as 4% p atk, so...& ill take imperials massive p def and p def bonus over draco's dex and atk speed bonus.
no class is perfect, and theres no need to rag on a class and call them useless and worthless just because YOU dont like it. EE happens to be one of the most preferred healers on korean servers, which is why the other healer classes get more boosts. but that does NOT mean we are worthless! i can think gladi's or TKs are worthless if i want, but in no way would i chase someone off that character just because they werent convenient for me to group with. you've said you dont like EE, and stated your reasons. i and a few others DO like EE's, gimp or not... and that doesnt give you any right to say we're useless to everyone! your opinions are not facts, dont represent them as such.
Read my sig before you say that next time. Disclaimer ftw...
Also the point of the post was for the OP to ask if his EE will ever stop SUCKING. & my answer to him is "no"
Read my sig before you say that next time. Disclaimer ftw...
Also the point of the post was for the OP to ask if his EE will ever stop SUCKING. & my answer to him is "no"
While it's probably true that an EE isn't the best at anything in PvE, I've not run into a situation that I couldn't handle that another healer could (except maybe that Dimensional Rift suicide mob). I guess for most people we're a second choice, but we can certainly manage to keep a group going with no downtime. If that's not being useful, I don't know what is.
In PvP we have good heals, a decent rez and good buffs for those who want them. Resist Shock is actually worthwhile in PvP and shield buffs are brilliant in protecting against archers, even for classes without shield masteries.
Oh and at level 78 we get Prophecy of Water. This buff should mean that most nukers would rather group an EE instead of an SE, since it increases, m.atk, casting speed, mp regen and magic crit rate all in one buff. It's a bit late though, you have to level all that way first.
Elmo, what you need to do (as others have said) is find a good clan that will group with you, or even just find one other person and duo, it may not be the best exp ever but you can certainly level.
Pickup groups are often hard to find simply as SPS proves ;) lots of people don't seem to like what they offer.
Also, we never know what the future will bring, C5 might give EEs some stupidly overpowering skill. The bottom line is though, if you enjoy playing an EE (when you can find groups), then you should continue and find that good clan. If you don't actually enjoy playing the character, then you should reroll.
I agree to all you just said so for once i cant counter argue, except that i doubt you will be spamming that new buff every 5 mins because over time all the ore will seem costly. Although if it is a significant help then i assume the cost of the ore will be recoverd quickly. How much is spirit ore again :confused:? i dont recall.
Oh and at level 78 we get Prophecy of Water. This buff should mean that most nukers would rather group an EE instead of an SE, since it increases, m.atk, casting speed, mp regen and magic crit rate all in one buff. It's a bit late though, you have to level all that way first.
Why would you want to group with nukers at 78? You're done leveling. There is no more leveling to do. O_o As far as pvp goes nukers would be grouping an EE with prophecy ~and~ an SE.
If it's one of those hard-nuking AoE things, I want to see one of them oh-so-great SEs interrupt the spell with a sleep. An EE is fast enough to do that. ;)
Glad > EE fool o.O.
And actually your wrong i have indeed played a lvl 67 EE on PTS, and i hated it, it was junk, i went and made an SE instead. The class IS worthless. EE needs massive boosting, period. Why do you think there are so few EE in-game? Because they suck I know you will defned your class and call me a jerk, i dont care, it needs to be said.
And as for gladiator being less then perfect, of course, all classes are less then perfect, but if i ever hit lvl 78 and become a duelist, i will be perfect as focus rage > all.
pts is not a normal grind, ditz. and one of the other major reasons why you don't have a lot of EE's cuz they continue to be pk'd every time they step out of the village. i've had to put my low LE on vacation until folks decide that there is other game to be had. it is more than discouraging to not be able to work - because some lazy fools think that the best hunting is a low character. i have never had that much trouble with any other race i play... just those LE trying to be healers. so maybe, just maybe, if you quit pk'ing them, they could get to be able to learn and use their skills (such as they may be) in useful manners
I admit SE's have it easy with VR but that doesn't mean they can fall asleep on their keyboard. Just because they have a sweet hp leeching spell doesn't make them horrible healers.
I would think a tank would want a bishop just for restore life, with all that hp it's a mp drain to cast several greater heals when you can just use one spell. I don't know, I guess I'm just getting use to the massive damage groups take at 75+ in the new areas. I use all my heals these days.
not all SE's behave this way, just a LOT of them, at least on my server. my argument was against promoting SE only for 1 or 2 skills because this is what happens when thats all you play one for. it really irks me to be grouped with a SE that spams GGH all the time just because a mob switched agro once or twice, or fired a weak AOE stun. theres not really much point in rolling a healer class at all if all you want from it is a buff and 1 healing skill
EEs and bishop have a sort of natural selection that way which SEs lack - nobody will bother helping you level up far on a class that isn't as ubar in PvE if you suck.
RE: Restore life. Why would a tank want a bishop over someone who can actually make him take significantly less damage?
VR works good if it's a -con +str tank, like a lot of SK do, -str +con tanks have less benefit from it and might do better with advanced block and a heal now and then.
We all know VR needs a nerf to half efficiency or something like that.
good idea but first remove empower and lower recharges to 120 mp used 120 mp gained
seriously vr is a buff which brings melee close to nuker lvling speed it doesnt overtake it
add a nuker with a recharger and emp and they by far kill faster and gain more adena
im all in favor of ee and bishop boosts not se nerfs
VR works good if it's a -con +str tank, like a lot of SK do, -str +con tanks have less benefit from it and might do better with advanced block and a heal now and then.
I prefer it in parties too. It means I don't have to spend as much mp on hate to keep agro and the healer doesnt have to spend as much mp healing. You know how that works right? Tanks cant keep agro properly with hate anyways but a melee DD gets its HP back nicely with VR. So I can let the DDs tank a little bit while I go pull the next monster.
Yeah it does work better solo too, but solo I prefer a pp for zerk, though at 75 I really need both VR and pp buffs to last too long. >_<
Between EE and bishop...it's situational. In general though I think I would prefer EE not for advanced block but because they can recharge if it doesnt run low on mp from healing.
Well at the very least, people want restore life for raids when it's a real possibility that people run out of MP :P And big bosses for mass rez. Well at any rate, I can still safely say I'm glad I didn't roll an EE. :/
RE: Restore life. Why would a tank want a bishop over someone who can actually make him take significantly less damage?
This tank prefers VR.
Block for twice as much at a much better rate or get a shiitty return from VR from shiitty damage? To me its not that hard of a decision but then again you may be a SK who uses a Dragon Slayer or something (which honestly isn't that bad :)).
For PvE I Prefer SE, for PvP I Prefer by far EE, why? Cuz of Shock Resist :) Nuker who cannot be Stunned... lol! :)DD
And SE it's not that good for BIG groups, just buffin they lose all their MP (noobs ¬¬) meanwhile EE got much more MP, much MP Regen, and quicker heals :)
Bishop is by far best healer. They don't need to buff cuz they heal a lot and got good mp and mp regen.They can heal a 30% of the life, that in a tank is too much.
SE is very good at PvE but try in PvP, slow heals, MP is ouuuuut OMG in just 1 sec LOOOOL, and they can get stunned before heal even cuz they r the less CON owners :)
EE got Resist Shock and faster Heal -> they rox for PVP! :)
So guy, don't reroll, pve it's difficult for EE, but into PvP I Prefer EE for buffin + healing.+
Glad > EE fool o.O.
And actually your wrong i have indeed played a lvl 67 EE on PTS, and i hated it, it was junk, i went and made an SE instead. The class IS worthless. EE needs massive boosting, period. Why do you think there are so few EE in-game? Because they suck I know you will defned your class and call me a jerk, i dont care, it needs to be said.
And as for gladiator being less then perfect, of course, all classes are less then perfect, but if i ever hit lvl 78 and become a duelist, i will be perfect as focus rage > all.
pts is not a normal grind, ditz. and one of the other major reasons why you don't have a lot of EE's cuz they continue to be pk'd every time they step out of the village. i've had to put my low LE on vacation until folks decide that there is other game to be had. it is more than discouraging to not be able to work - because some lazy fools think that the best hunting is a low character. i have never had that much trouble with any other race i play... just those LE trying to be healers. so maybe, just maybe, if you quit pk'ing them, they could get to be able to learn and use their skills (such as they may be) in useful manners
I dont quite understand what your saying, on PTS there was little grind so in theory i should have enjoyed my EE. In fact i hated it. Also no 1 pks healers or buffers, its a waste of karma, your saying you get pk'd alot? then maybe its because your a jerk or something. I know i would never waste time pk'ing a healer, waste of karma and no reward for doing it.
For PvE I Prefer SE, for PvP I Prefer by far EE, why? Cuz of Shock Resist :) Nuker who cannot be Stunned... lol! :)DD
And SE it's not that good for BIG groups, just buffin they lose all their MP (noobs ¬¬) meanwhile EE got much more MP, much MP Regen, and quicker heals :)
Bishop is by far best healer. They don't need to buff cuz they heal a lot and got good mp and mp regen.They can heal a 30% of the life, that in a tank is too much.
SE is very good at PvE but try in PvP, slow heals, MP is ouuuuut OMG in just 1 sec LOOOOL, and they can get stunned before heal even cuz they r the less CON owners :)
EE got Resist Shock and faster Heal -> they rox for PVP! :)
So guy, don't reroll, pve it's difficult for EE, but into PvP I Prefer EE for buffin + healing.+
See ya
Resist shock really isnt all that great, shield stun will still land almost all the time, but it will reduce hammer crush and aoe stuns, by a small amount. You cant say that even with resist shock 4 you are imune to shock as that is simply not true, tried & tested.
On my DA however nice shield defense buffs are to me, i wont say no to them, but i will still take a SE over an EE. I can maintain my HP with 2-3 mobs hitting on me with just VR alone. Tanks dont have crap p atk fyi, infact my DA has only 250 less then my gladiator, and my DA is 10 lvls lower. Also with VR, if for what ever reason you lose agro, at least the other DD's wont need healing cos they can maintain HP perfectly fine. SE using VR doesnt need to heal anywhere near as much, and can use the spare MP to recharge DD's to increase dmg output.
People do realize that Warcryers and Blade Dancers have VR as well right? VR is not a good argument as to why SE are 'far' superior to EE.
Well, EE do not get that buff, so if you actually WANT VR and can only choose between SE and EE for your party, the choice is clear. And since VR is a really, really good buff, it definitely is an advantage the SE holds over the EE. When you are strictly comparing SE to EE, the SE definitely has the better buffs. That you can build a party with VR even without a SE is irrelevant in this particular comparison - the SE simply brings more and better buffs into a party. I mean, with this kind of argument you could devaluate everything the SE has - "Overlords get empower too, and Bishops have greater group heal, too, and warcryer has VR - so if I have a group with an overlord, a warcryer and a bishop, the SE buffs are no reason to choose one over a EE!"
Still, you are right - Warcryer has VR too. I would not really consider the BD dance of vampire equivalent to VR4 (because it does not have the same "power"), but it still is nice since a party with a BD of that level most likely does enough damage that the difference is not that much. And the fact that SE gets VR4 earlier than a Warcryer is also not really THAT important, since by now most bigger clans have people close to or above 75, so many people there have maxed out skills.
Let's just say that it depends on the party itself. Do you go somewhere where greater group heal is pretty much a must-have (lots of aoe damage)? Do you have two or more nukers in the party? Do you already have another buffer for the essential offensive buffs? Do you plan on doing pvp? Or can you maybe just grab BOTH? I had a nice party recently with both me, an EE and a prophet. Worked very well. Prophet buffed, I did my additional buffs (as did the EE), EE healed greater heal, I did occasional group heal when necessary, and I mainly recharged nukers.
BTW in everyday groups I never noticed any super important difference between EE and SE as rechargers. Sure, EE get a few mp extra per minute (I would guess around 50mp unless the EE is sitting all the time), but in the end that does not matter that much. You might be able to throw 6 or 7 extra recharges per buff round when you completely use up all mp for recharges, but more often than not the group can either a.) go indefinitely and has no mp problem anyway or b.) everybody uses up mp for heals, nukes and so on that much that you're doing mp rest and the few extra recharges only push the mp rest back a handful of mobs. I have not had a situation so far where I said to myself "****, if I had a slightly better regen we could go without any break here!".
People do realize that Warcryers and Blade Dancers have VR as well right? VR is not a good argument as to why SE are 'far' superior to EE.
Never said I cared where the VR came from.
RE: Restore life. Why would a tank want a bishop over someone who can actually make him take significantly less damage?
This tank prefers VR.
Block for twice as much at a much better rate or get a shiitty return from VR from shiitty damage? To me its not that hard of a decision but then again you may be a SK who uses a Dragon Slayer or something (which honestly isn't that bad :)).
Read:
I prefer it in parties too. It means I don't have to spend as much mp on hate to keep agro and the healer doesnt have to spend as much mp healing. You know how that works right? Tanks cant keep agro properly with hate anyways but a melee DD gets its HP back nicely with VR. So I can let the DDs tank a little bit while I go pull the next monster.
Yeah it does work better solo too, but solo I prefer a pp for zerk, though at 75 I really need both VR and pp buffs to last too long. >_<
Between EE and bishop...it's situational. In general though I think I would prefer EE not for advanced block but because they can recharge if it doesnt run low on mp from healing.
It makes a lot bigger difference than you seem to realize. I'm a TK. O_o Advanced block is great and all and I know it works but I already take very little damage from stuff so the boost from advanced block, while good, isn't as noticeable for me as it is on a robe class. VR on the other hand is very useful.
It makes a lot bigger difference than you seem to realize. I'm a TK. O_o Advanced block is great and all and I know it works but I already take very little damage from stuff so the boost from advanced block, while good, isn't as noticeable for me as it is on a robe class. VR on the other hand is very useful.
In pvp, with all these ranged classes, advanced block is a lot more important than vamp rage is.
Even at point blank and you actually get HP return from VR, it'll be what? 20%~ at VR4? while advanced block 3 can reduce damage by more than half on blocks.
People call me squishy all the time, yet i can block a lvl 74 gladi's TSS for 1k~ dmg or a fully buffed 75 soulbow archer for 1200~ with just shield and advanced block. and with max bless the shield blocking rate against archers is pretty close to 100%
And that is the problem - people don't care how good a PvP class they may be raising in their group, they'd rather have the SE because it is good right then and there.
And that is the problem - people don't care how good a PvP class they may be raising in their group, they'd rather have the SE because it is good right then and there.
A bit silly if you ask me.
That's true, but it's also hard for bishops to find parties, both EE and bishops need good friends or a clan to help them level. It's an investment in pvp.
And people saying that elven elders are useless can keep saying all they want because our pvp mage party tells me how much they love me every day ;)
The problem is, at least on my server, the overwhelming majority of PvPers are now SH and Necros. They do the overwhelming amount of damage as well. And against them, it doesn't matter if you're a bishop, EE, or SE. You can't do a thing. If EE's had buffs to protect against ALL sorts of attacks, including magic ones, in some way, then it would be a very nice balance to the SE's empower.
Edit: And to point out the worst part, SE's get resist wind while its the LE nukers, not the buffers that get the resist aqua.
Glad > EE fool o.O.
And actually your wrong i have indeed played a lvl 67 EE on PTS, and i hated it, it was junk, i went and made an SE instead. The class IS worthless. EE needs massive boosting, period. Why do you think there are so few EE in-game? Because they suck I know you will defned your class and call me a jerk, i dont care, it needs to be said.
And as for gladiator being less then perfect, of course, all classes are less then perfect, but if i ever hit lvl 78 and become a duelist, i will be perfect as focus rage > all.
pts is not a normal grind, ditz. and one of the other major reasons why you don't have a lot of EE's cuz they continue to be pk'd every time they step out of the village. i've had to put my low LE on vacation until folks decide that there is other game to be had. it is more than discouraging to not be able to work - because some lazy fools think that the best hunting is a low character. i have never had that much trouble with any other race i play... just those LE trying to be healers. so maybe, just maybe, if you quit pk'ing them, they could get to be able to learn and use their skills (such as they may be) in useful manners
I dont quite understand what your saying, on PTS there was little grind so in theory i should have enjoyed my EE. In fact i hated it. Also no 1 pks healers or buffers, its a waste of karma, your saying you get pk'd alot? then maybe its because your a jerk or something. I know i would never waste time pk'ing a healer, waste of karma and no reward for doing it.
please, please explain to me how a quiet being, minding my own business running out to kill mobs for quest (being careful to not intrude where others may already be hunting) is being a jerk? folks pk because they are lazy cowards who do not want to go and do the work to get their gear on their own, they want to steal it from those who have already worked hard to get what they have. and sometimes the only gear they have is what they just collected Oh, and the xp they just lost getting pk'd. and just because YOU think that it would be a waste of mana and time DOES NOT mean that OTHERS think it is a waste of mana or time.
but this is not about going after the pk'ers. this thread is how to help make the EE more skillful, for YOUR personal uses. Please help us suggest ways to IMPROVE our EE skills, not how to promote a different race or class.
considering that you have such a poor opinion of nearly a whole race (i have yet to see you say very much positive for any light elf), how about you head over to say.. guildWars where everyone is human except the things that you get to kill.
if you hate EE in normal grind, whatever made you think that you'd like it in PTS? if you don't like the work involved with leveling an EE then stop discounting and discouraging those of us who do and are willing to put in the hard work. Just because YOU prefer to have other talents utilized, DOES NOT mean that EE's do not have useful skills and talents. WE do not have to PROVE anything to YOU, just ourselves and those we may work with. And then, all we need to prove to our team members is that we can do the job we have the skills for.
Ok your either a newb or stupid. PEOPLE DO NOT DROP ITEMS WHEN YOU RANDOMLY PK THEM!!!!!! The only way to get items from another player thru killing them is if the person they kill is RED and has 5+ PK's. Learn the game mechanics my god !!!!
I like SR's there great, i wont moan about them so in fact i do like a light elf char, kay?
I made my EE on the PTS because i thought it would make a great duo with my brothers DA, i was wrong and soon found myself desperate for VR and the other buffs because we had too much downtime.
The point of the post was to ask why do EE's suck, and i think weve covered that to great extent. I have no need to suggest reasons as to how to improve EE's as it has been done before, if you want to make suggestions, which i dont think you have, then go reply to that thread, ok?
I like to think i know alot about the classes of L2, i spent alot of time talking with them and researching into them, all good pvp'ers know about the other classes, and see'ing as ive played EE i should hope i know about them. My judgement of the class, would be that it has a very minute role in lineage2 and can only be usefull if you have an extra space in the party for it. Im all for ++EE boostage. If things stay as they are now, i will never be shouting !LF EE..
The problem is, at least on my server, the overwhelming majority of PvPers are now SH and Necros. They do the overwhelming amount of damage as well.
Use a SwS and the damage isn't at all very overwhelming. And I swear to God if I hear another noob say Song of Warding doesn't do that much I'm gonna punch someone :mad:. Anyone ever [censored] heard of Song of Invocation or Storm Guard as well which stack on Warding and Magic Barrier?
Dance of Vampire is the same effect as VR 4 as far as I know, but its also not like 15% to 20% return is that much of a difference anyway if it isn't, lol. People really have got to stop relying on VR so much. Before VR came to the game our parties did fine going nonstop fighting deep red mobs. All VR does is make a lazy healer, it really doesn't make or break a party at all.
I wish we had a SwS, and yes, I know how good they are. But this thread is about EE's. And an EE's defensive role is undermined by their inability to prevent damage from the most plentiful source in PvP. Even an SE has better defensive buffs when it comes to fighting mages. Luckily, SwS's do not have this problem.
I skipped about 2 pages of this thread, but just some comments:
Someone posted EE only get greater heal so they're not better than SE in that regards. Wrong, they get Revitalize too. Casting speed isn't the problem with SE's in pvp/PVE-gone-wrong, it's casting reuse timer. As a 74 SE with the usual acumen SA weapon/acumen3/zerk2 buffs I can cast greater heal really **** fast. But then I have to spam battleheal in between, or wait on greater heal to cast it again. As an EE in pvp, they can alternate greater heal and revitalize, and still of course have that same low level bheal spam as a fallback. EE are far superior in pvp to an SE.
To the people saying SE are more valuable even in pvp because they want focus/deathwhisper/etc... do you guys not have buffers? WTH? It's very rare I joined a party on my SE without it having a buffer (prophet/warcryer) in addition to me. I'm there to heal, not be a buff bish. If I were to buff a party before pvp, I wouldn't be healing AT ALL because I'd be out of mana. Slap a warcryer and EE together, and you've got all the prophet/SE buffs you could want, aside from zerk and empower. Neither SE or EE should be taken to a pvp group for their buffs, aside from maybe a 9 man nuker group. Most people have their own SE or prophet buff slave anyways, it's not that hard to have it slap on empower to the classes that need it out of party.
To the original poster, keep playing your EE, in fact... reroll your EE on Devianne and come join my clan. We properly respect our healers - all classes of them.
I skipped about 2 pages of this thread, but just some comments:
Someone posted EE only get greater heal so they're not better than SE in that regards. Wrong, they get Revitalize too. Casting speed isn't the problem with SE's in pvp/PVE-gone-wrong, it's casting reuse timer. As a 74 SE with the usual acumen SA weapon/acumen3/zerk2 buffs I can cast greater heal really **** fast. But then I have to spam battleheal in between, or wait on greater heal to cast it again. As an EE in pvp, they can alternate greater heal and revitalize, and still of course have that same low level bheal spam as a fallback. EE are far superior in pvp to an SE.
To the people saying SE are more valuable even in pvp because they want focus/deathwhisper/etc... do you guys not have buffers? WTH? It's very rare I joined a party on my SE without it having a buffer (prophet/warcryer) in addition to me. I'm there to heal, not be a buff bish. If I were to buff a party before pvp, I wouldn't be healing AT ALL because I'd be out of mana. Slap a warcryer and EE together, and you've got all the prophet/SE buffs you could want, aside from zerk and empower. Neither SE or EE should be taken to a pvp group for their buffs, aside from maybe a 9 man nuker group. Most people have their own SE or prophet buff slave anyways, it's not that hard to have it slap on empower to the classes that need it out of party.
To the original poster, keep playing your EE, in fact... reroll your EE on Devianne and come join my clan. We properly respect our healers - all classes of them.
The argument was comparing EE vs SE, one or the other. Not combinations with other support classes.
Also you say all the buffs you want except zerk and empower...hello? there two of the most important buffs to a mage party.
The argument was comparing EE vs SE, one or the other. Not combinations with other support classes.
Also you say all the buffs you want except zerk and empower...hello? there two of the most important buffs to a mage party.
Hello? I said with the exception of a nuker group? I also said the odds are good in a 9 man group of someone having an SE buffslave they can bring along for empower.
The argument also is about groups. In group play you don't have just an EE or just an SE running around killing mobs.. you have... gasp... a group. These groups contain other players, USUALLY these groups contain a prophet or a warcryer. The warcryer can cover for most of the buffs the EE is missing (as I said) including the coveted VR.
If you're gonna start dropping other support classes from the argument, then you should drop the bd that those nukers want and the sws AND bd that those melee's want. You wouldn't think to drop them, why argue the warcryer or prophet for buffs?
I would want a BD as a melee not a SwS. & I all parties need a SE, for the buffs, recharge and or heals. In my parties i dont like to waste spaces with classes i can make do without, so i always drop the EE or never take it in the first place. All my parties ever need is a SE, we can just eat gsap's for the atk speed makeing a prophet/wc not nessercary. My parties are usually myself, a se, a bd and a bh, perfect party nice and small to maximise profits/exp. I would also assume mages wouldnt need to take a EE in their parties also as the SE can recharge them aswell as buff them. Now im repeating things ive said 10 pages ago and this thread is old, EE is lame and needs a boost. kthxbi.
I would want a BD as a melee not a SwS. & I all parties need a SE, for the buffs, recharge and or heals. In my parties i dont like to waste spaces with classes i can make do without, so i always drop the EE or never take it in the first place. All my parties ever need is a SE, we can just eat gsap's for the atk speed makeing a prophet/wc not nessercary. My parties are usually myself, a se, a bd and a bh, perfect party nice and small to maximise profits/exp. I would also assume mages wouldnt need to take a EE in their parties also as the SE can recharge them aswell as buff them. Now im repeating things ive said 10 pages ago and this thread is old, EE is lame and needs a boost. kthxbi.
I agree that EE needs a boost. But still, you cannot beef up EE to be a viable substitution for SE in grinding parties, or it will make SE useless. And people that willfully chose EE class did so not because they wanted to play buffbots in parties grinding easy mobs either, it's just too boring for a person with such a huge WIT :p. In addition to PvP, EE shines in handling AoE mobs and minibosses, as well as in raids. It is better to improve EE there.
You mean they DON'T shine there right? AOE mobs parties needs greater group heal, which EE's don't get. Raids need VR and restore life, which EE's also don't get.
Restore MP would be sweet, if it worked just like restore life except give a big boost of MP back.
And thus mages will dominate everything that so much as twitches o.O
I can still only see an EE as a MP battery with no other real purpose then to chuck out recharges :confused:
Or perhaps a buff that resembles Regeneration but instead increases MP renegeration. Or perhaps a buff that gives its subject a higher mana gain when recharged. Or both ;)
You mean they DON'T shine there right? AOE mobs needs greater group heal, which EE's don't get.
AoE mobs need fast sleep, which is a lot cheaper in MP than GGH.
Raids need VR and restore life, which EE's also don't get.
Restore Life is a nice skill to have, but it is not a lifesaver when a boss reaggroes on a primary healer, especially if the tank is stunned or out of MP. The need for VR in a party with a real tank (pdef+hate+no special weapons mastery) is overrated.
Restore MP would be sweet, if it worked just like restore life except give a big boost of MP back.
Not really. Tanks don't have much MP, and the reuse time of Restore Life sucks.
Oh, sorry, you have meant "in addition to Recharge". Yes, a nice addition to EE skills...
I really hope this type of ignorance isn't too widespread, lol. oh wait, actually its too late and this is probably why people think melee suck, they don't know how to make a good melee party.
AOE mobs would be better slept with an AOE sleep. I guess it depends on what you mean by AOE though. AOE meaning lots of mobs at once, or AOE mobs that attack the whole party at once.
AoE meaning lots of mobs at once, an EE is good due to fast mana-efficient heals.
AoE mobs meaning attacking the whole party, the whole interrupt thing comes up again. People don't believe sleep-to-interrupt can save mana, but it's the EE's GGH.
I'm not sure how many greater heals is more efficient than one group heal. Greater Group heal gets more efficient when you have 3 or more people needing a heal. Bishops get high levels of sleep too, and with majestic, acumen weapon, bsps and +4 WIT we're pretty fast too.
I've done lots of AOE groups with an EE, it works well, I do group and restore life, they regular heal and recharge. But you couldn't do it with just one.
I was saying sleep works as a fair replacement for GGH on mobs with AoE attacks.
There are many, many different levelling styles - and they all have different needs.
For when lots of mobs are hitting one target, it's fairly obvious that greater heal is superior to GGH.
Just as an example:
As an ES, my preference of buffers to duo with, in order from best to worst, would be
PP > Bishop > EE > SE > OL > WC.
EE would probably swap up with bishop in areas with lots of stunners, and SE would slip under OL if there was another ES there.
If NCSoft finally made consumable potions available for servitors, the EE would be up over the PP.
A few weeks ago, however, the preference would have been like this:
PP > SE > WC > Bishop > OL > EE.
Things can change drastically depending on the scenario. ;) EEs say they do well in groups because they go to groups in which EEs work - SPS says EEs don't do well in groups because he doesn't have a group setup in which EEs work.
In the end: The EE is a bit weak compared to the others, but still has merits. I'd prefer them over the orc buffers or SEs anytime with my current style.
1)Resist shock isn't useless in pvp. If the person trying to stun you is equal or lower lvl, it significantly reduces the chance of a stun landing.(there is a test, somewhere in this forum, that shows a lvl75 DA trying to stun a lvl75 char unbuffed, with resist shock, with majestic set and with both resist shock and majestic set) It is even more effective when the stun is from a skillset below the lvl of the target.
2) While purify is a good skill to have, it is not a must for all areas that have paralize. Paralize doesn't always land, i've seen situations where the entire group resisted aoe paralize multiple times in a row. Sleep cancelling an aoe para is usually more mp efficient than needing to use purify on mulitple party members while healing the extra dmg taken, and there is less of a risk of the healer being paralized. As for the risk of being paralized themselves, since EE's have the highest wit and men of all the healers, they have a lower chance of being paralized. Most groups can also survive the temporary loss of 1 party member, unless they are in way over their heads.
3) Sleep is much better than root as a crowd control skill
4) Archer groups usually like an EE + prohpet combo best. It provieds all the buffs, heals and recharges they need.
5) EE's have 2 skills that make it much harder for someone to successfully train your group. Serenade of Eva can stop some trains, and you can always PR if needed.
Please...just let this thread die, everything you have said has been said countless time before, im loseing the strength and will to argue back now. Resist shock is dependant on your class/con rating, on mages and low con chars its trash, it would be interesting to know what this unbuffed char was, also he was wearing majestic, not everyone wears this....
I know you feel defense > offense, but i like to have increased p atk/atk speed in pve then defense buffs.
I don't know why you think sws is so bad, but you want both. Song of Hunter is awesome and that buff alone makes parties kill much faster than just 1 DD. Well I mean if you have 1 SE+PP+BD+2 DDs or 1SE+PP+BD+SwS+DD, the 2nd party kills faster. Actually the best melee party in the game is probably a WC+BD+SwS and nothing else, all with DD builds (well the wc doesnt have to, but meh).
I know you feel defense > offense, but i like to have increased p atk/atk speed in pve then defense buffs.
ohh trust me, I in no way feel Defense>Offense. In PvE I'll agree that Offense>Defense but Song of Hunter helps TREMENDOUSLY in physical oriented groups and simply because of other buffs like Death Whisper, Blessing of Queen, and Dance of Fire (mostly because of Dance of Fire). But I think its quite obvious you NEED defense in PvP, not decked out in defense but there has to be a balance in PvP, especially to classes who must rely on defense to reach their targets. When people complain about nukers 2 shotting them at equal lvl and gear grade there is obviously something wrong, and with further probing it usually comes down to NO or minimal defense vs. magic, not all game design problems. Now its obvious now that nukers are a dominate damage dealing class at seiges and such so why the hell haven't people taken advantage of classes that have defensive buffs against them? because they are ignorant enough to believe that defense has no place in this game. Prophets eventually get Elemental Protection (MANDATORY IN PvP!!!) and before they get that they have the seperate Resist <element> buffs. SwS get a song that ups mdef, then get THREE other ones that resist specific elements (fire, dark, wind), so SwS alone has 4 buffs to resist magical attacks, which are obviously a problem in case you don't read this game's forums. Yet I find out that SwS are one of the rarest classes in game and you'd be lucky to find a Prophet over a specific lvl, let alone find a PLAYER CONTROLLED one (I don't consider 2 boxing player controlled because its really not 99% of the time). A 3rd class change Prophet gets some wicked skills.
So here I find myself with a game obviously mass rerolling nukers yet nobody rerolling classes that DEFEND against these nukers (in fact those classes are edging on extinction) and then get the ignorant masses flocking forums complaining about lack of balance and overexagerating a problem that DOES exist but no where near the level that people state. Give me a [censored] a break. Lack of defense IS the problem, not game design (although some game design can be blamed like limited buffs and SwS/BD shared penalty) but even some of the game design that limits us can be overcome with compromise, which was probably the intent of the developers. Jesus Christ, Warding and Storm Guard in themselves can half wind nuke damage and there is still another layer of protection vs. wind!!! Hell when we get lvl 76 EEs and Bishops some classes will have THREE layers of defense JUST against Dark magic NOT including the mdef raising buffs. Right now I currently have 2 pieces of unsealed S grade jewelery, the rest is Black Ore (B grade). With song of warding and magic barrier activated a lvl 74 SpS with Empower and Dance of Mystic actually FAILED a water nuke on me resulting in like 300 damage (she had 2k+ matk). Now that doesn't happen often but you must consider there are still 2 extra layers of defense I could have had to protect me against an aqua nuke as well as potential for better equipment since I didn't have have a full S grade jewelery set, not to mention that power comes at the price of MP which can be limiting at times because once its out they are a sitting duck or a moving target (which means NOTHING in this game unfortunately). So yea, I do feel defense is important in this game, moreso now than ever in PvP because of nuker rerolls/subclassing. But people ignore these facts because its EASIER to just reroll. I don't care about people rerolling or subclassing nukers because they want to or enjoy that playstyle (lol), it only ****** me off when people do this because they feel they are forced to because the game is 'unfair' to them when really they are just ******* who can't confront a challenge. But enough of my Prophet/SwS rant, I move on to EE.
Archers are just as dangerous as nukers in terms of plowing the killing fields if not more due to the multitudes of mdef and resist element buffs out there. They are faster moving, live longer, and slightly less MP dependant as they don't need 60+ MP to shoot an arrow. When archers become the problem thats where EEs shine. Blessed Shield lvl 6, Advanced Block, and Resist Shock skills are all VERY useful vs. archers, so is evasion as well but WCs have that one too.
I know its a bit long but I got nothing better to do at work :eek:
So here I find myself with a game obviously mass rerolling nukers yet nobody rerolling classes that DEFEND against these nukers (in fact those classes are edging on extinction) and then get the ignorant masses flocking forums complaining about lack of balance and overexagerating a problem that DOES exist but no where near the level that people state. Give me a [censored] a break.
so basicly everybody is an idiot and only you understood how l2 works. el oh el
So here I find myself with a game obviously mass rerolling nukers yet nobody rerolling classes that DEFEND against these nukers (in fact those classes are edging on extinction) and then get the ignorant masses flocking forums complaining about lack of balance and overexagerating a problem that DOES exist but no where near the level that people state. Give me a [censored] a break.
so basicly everybody is an idiot and only you understood how l2 works. el oh el
There are more who feel the same way as me, I'm not the only one who feels the majority of the L2 population is ******ed.
The devs, for one, do if you look at their history of boosts and nerfs. And whether or not it reflects the actuality of the NA servers, thinking like them is generally not a bad strategy.
There are more who feel the same way as me, I'm not the only one who feels the majority of the L2 population is ******ed.
QFE. But for different reasons :eek:
I used to think EEs were gimped. Then I started actually partying with them, warring alongside them, and I promptly ate my words. Yeah, maybe SEs are better for nuker parties and small melee parties (lol) but as an archer, all they are to me are lazy wastes of a party slot.
In pvp...there's no argument who is better. Unless you are some delusional melee who thinks they can actually close with a nuker/archer before they get trashed (hint: you have to REACH your opponent for VR to be useful!). Gladi lol. If you want VR so bad, ask your clannie with the boxed SE to give it to you. But if your active pvp healer is an SE...well good luck with slow cast speed, slow cooldown heals, controlled by someone who is probably terrible at healing due to VR+GGHeal being the only thing they know how to do.
Party recall...well I guess some people will be all "lol just use bsoe" or "your party sux if you ever need PR". I'm really not sure how to convince people who are this ignorant. L2 isn't a string of ideal circumstances, stuff happens, parties go bad, enemies get the drop on you. PR is much more useful than it is given credit for, and the proof of this is in the actual use of this skill.
Let's not forget rezzing. Its a lot easier to be daring in pvp when you know you have a quick EE rez behind you, rather than having to worry about BREZ (gets expensive) or an SE/PP rez (get the hell away from me!)
Yeah, <3 EEs now. Any EEs out there who are having a tough time, FIND A GOOD CLAN. Can't emphasize that enough. A good EE will be the prince/princess of their clan and revered, just have to find subjects who know how to appreciate you :)
So according to you EE's are usefull for a few things. Running like a *** from a fight, rez'ing you when dead (never happens because im actually good at the game) and pvp healing. Btw no ******* melee takes VR for pvp waste of a buff spot everyone knows that ok. As for healing EE's dont have one of the more important heals. & Ill take guidence/focus/dw as an archer over agility and resist shock anyday for pvp. The difference in casting speed between the EE and SE is not that significant. Its not like im waiting 10 minutes for the SE to heal me.
Sps, you aren't adding anything useful to the conversation any longer. We all know by now you don't LIKE EE and think that they're useless. Accept that maybe your opinion isn't the same as other people's and that an EE isn't quite such a loser class as you seme to think. If you want the thread to die, stop adding to it.
I personally like my EE that I rerolled to, she casts faster than the SE i tried out. I got that to like level 20 and just deleted it. As per all these posts here, she's going to be a lot more useful in PVP which is what I'm really interested in. Sure finding parties is hard, but if you're in a good clan that doesn't matter.
Nah, running away and ressing only become important after the EE did their heal thing - at which they are, in PvP, better than the SE. The bishop is argueably better for PvP healing, opinions vary from server to server, based mostly on whether the best PvP healers on that server are bishops or EEs.
Prophets and SEs can mostly just sit on the sidelines during PvP - a waste of a party slot mostly, since you can just buff up and then leave them.
actually SE and Prophets are invaluable to melee groups in PvP, Root is a lot cheaper than Sleep yet for some reason everyone thinks Sleep is overpowered, I blame player ignorance. Elven Elders are great, they have their uses which really only specialty parties would appreciate. Also on the killing fields during seiges a quick rez is appreciated by anyone and EEs heal REALLY fast when they want to, they have 2 different regular heals so to speak that they can go back and forth on and heal fast and well. Group heal is great and all but it can be difficult to pull off unless you got an Orc party or something, in which case a Bishop would be better. SE are strictly a buffer and rooter in PvP, their heals just aren't fast enough to make that a reason to be better than EE
Our clan's main healer is an EE and he rocks in both PvP and PvE. You might think that PR is only useful when you hunt far over your head... but ever tried thinking the other way around? :P
The EE allows you to hunt in difficult, more fun and more rewarding environments than any other healer. Get into trouble? Insanely fast heals and sleep, with a skilled player all at the same time. Get into really bad trouble? PR, whew that was awesome. When the [censored] hits the fan? Well good that we have such a high %-rez with us. :)
EEs suck as buffbots... granted. But for a dedicated healer they are probably the best choice.
The EE allows you to hunt in difficult, more fun and more rewarding environments than any other healer. Get into trouble? Insanely fast heals and sleep, with a skilled player all at the same time.
As long as it doesn't affect MP balance much, it is not a "trouble", but a "mob delivery service". Actually, you cannot claim that you know what the non-stop grinding is really about, if you weren't grinding in such "trouble" for hours.
what a useless topic this has become... can we get a lock and be done with it yet? does anyone even remember what the original post was about without looking? lol
People just keep repeating themselves now because they havent read thru all the 16 pages of crap. I think the orginal idea of the post was if the guys EE would ever stop sucking. Not how brilliant is my EE. So when i say his EE sucks im on topic thanks. Thread needs a lock and EE needs a boost to be a more desired class.
Ya I've not read the 16 pages of crap, got me there, but why do you try to silence the people who try to defend a class they like and value by calling for a lock? That's a bit poor. ^^
er i am an EE, and i defended my class plenty in this thread... but its like a nightmare-merry-go-round that wont let you off... i keep seeing the same **** horses pass by mouthing off at eachother with no new points and half of it copy+pasted. can read the first 3 pages and get all your ever going to get from this one. its just you suck - no we dont suck - you suck worse - **** you sucked first. time to let it die lol
So according to you EE's are usefull for a few things. Running like a *** from a fight, rez'ing you when dead (never happens because im actually good at the game) and pvp healing.
You never die? If that's true, then you must not pvp a lot, no matter how much you might claim you do. Anyone in a high profile pvp clan pvps at least once a day, sometimes more. They are involved in all kinds of pvp - while they're alone or in a small group, in a full group, with several ally groups, on the siege field, running up through TOI, porting into DVC, etc. Even if you are good at the game, at some point, you're going to die. You're going to be overpowered or outnumbered, whatever. If you don't ever die in pvp, then it's probably more cuz you suck than because you are good at the game. Any decent, high level player in a pvp clan is probably going to wind up a /target at some point in time. I don't pvp atm, on my sps, but on my EE I was in a high profile pvp clan. I was a /target for our enemies and we used that method as well. We'd be /targeting people when they were a floor or two below us in TOI, ready for them to come up. Unless you are truly unimportant, you are going to get /targeted and killed at some point in time. And seriously, saying that you never die makes me think it's because you suck at pvp and never do it, not that you are that good.
actually SE and Prophets are invaluable to melee groups in PvP, Root is a lot cheaper than Sleep yet for some reason everyone thinks Sleep is overpowered, I blame player ignorance.
Sleep and root cost exactly the same amount of mp for same-level players. A level 72 SE uses 67 MP to cast root, a level 72 EE uses 67 MP to cast sleep. So how is root cheaper?
People target the EE first in PVP so the rest of the group can't chicken out and warp back to town in mass. At least we do. The only time we PR is if we know we are totally outclassed, otherwise we take our deaths and deal with it.
So, do I understand correctly that a lot of people think that the EE is so good that it doesnt need a little boost in spells to make it more compatible to the SE/prophet/bishop?
Right, I will remember that next time when I am not wanted into a party because I am a sucky EE. When all the people are screaming we want SE.
Anyone ever seen people specifically requesting an EE for their party? If so please make a screenshot of that wondrous occasion, I want to see such a rarity.
actually SE and Prophets are invaluable to melee groups in PvP, Root is a lot cheaper than Sleep yet for some reason everyone thinks Sleep is overpowered, I blame player ignorance.
Sleep and root cost exactly the same amount of mp for same-level players. A level 72 SE uses 67 MP to cast root, a level 72 EE uses 67 MP to cast sleep. So how is root cheaper?
The English language, isn't it wonderful? :)
I meant its cheaper as in its more exploitive or more effective. Not cheaper in the sense of MP. I say Root is better than Sleep simply because of Waking Scrolls and the fact that the first time you get hit you wake. With Root you take away archers best tactic, which is kiting (hit'n'run), and you leave nukers vulnerable. Sure they can still sleep their attacker but they aren't going anywhere and if that attacker is in a smart group he will be awaken real fast. With Root you either got to wait it out or have an ES cure you or die.
So, do I understand correctly that a lot of people think that the EE is so good that it doesnt need a little boost in spells to make it more compatible to the SE/prophet/bishop?
Right, I will remember that next time when I am not wanted into a party because I am a sucky EE. When all the people are screaming we want SE.
Anyone ever seen people specifically requesting an EE for their party? If so please make a screenshot of that wondrous occasion, I want to see such a rarity.
Actually I have. Pure archer parties usually go Prophet and Elven Elder. Shilien Elder have NOTHING to offer archers and EEs have better regen, even though slight, so they can recharge more often and they have Evasion. Since they have a Prophet instead of a WC EE is the only one who can give Evasion. EE also have Weight buff so archers can carry mroe arrows and more soul shots for long hunts. Also EE can Sleep mobs whereas SE can only Root them effectively. And if archers need Root they got a Prophet.
So, do I understand correctly that a lot of people think that the EE is so good that it doesnt need a little boost in spells to make it more compatible to the SE/prophet/bishop?
Right, I will remember that next time when I am not wanted into a party because I am a sucky EE. When all the people are screaming we want SE.
Anyone ever seen people specifically requesting an EE for their party? If so please make a screenshot of that wondrous occasion, I want to see such a rarity.
I didn't say that EE was the premier uberpwn healer. But I don't think that they are so gimp as to deserve the leper status people foist on them. There's lots of people who don't understand the situational benefits of the EE and sadly, a lot of EEs which don't know this either. Where there's a will there's a way and any EE who doesn't like their lot and isn't going to be constructive about finding a way to appreciate their class just ought to reroll already.
I think EE could use a boost or two (purify) but they aren't even remotely as useless as people pretend they are.
Listof: Excellent post, said everything that needed to be said about noobs and their armchair pvp :D
You dont know me or my clan, so you are just makeing unfounded assumptions. I do pvp, its the only reason i still play lineage2, and the reason i have a dedicated pvp class. Is it so hard to believe that im good at pvp and have yet to find a need for party recall? I never get rolled on by a zerg, do you know why, i am that zerg. I have alot of friends and we unlike seemingly everyone else know how to survive to kill our targets. Im sure one day i will get killed and owned then when that happens people have the right to talk smack to my lifeless corpse all day. This is not about my pvp count anyway its about how EE's are gimps, sad fact but true, and they need a boost. I cant possibly see why we are still debating this. EE need something to help them be more desired other then being a mp battery for archer parties. I would actually like to one day be able to shout GLF EE, but untill they get something to make it worth while it isnt ever gunna happen.
Dedicated pvp class? I dunno if you noticed but you're a gladiator XD Basically when it comes to pvp targets, you're at the bottom of the priority list, maybe right above tanks. In group pvp you have the highest survival possibility because you have the lowest chance to kill anyone and are thus, a nonfactor.
Funny how there are constructive people here trying to inform EEs that yes, they are wanted and no, they aren't useless. But we have misinformed people like you, and god-forbid EE players themselves trying to advocate mass rerolling of what few EEs remain.
Maybe you guys think casting the EE in its worst possible light in front of NC is the key to getting the class boosted. Well maybe you didn't realize the steady decline of the melee class every single chronicle despite numerous threads on their impending doom. Things probably aren't going to change anytime soon.
The EEs don't have it as bad as melee DDs imo. Awareness of their strengths need to be raised and many EEs need to learn to play their class to the fullest and thats what people are trying to do here. I think being constructive in a thread like this is the best course, rather than trying to get it locked for no reason other than spite.
Funny thing is, SPS, I strongly believe EEs need a BIG boost to compete with Bishops and SEs, but your posts are so volatile that I find myself wanting to take up the "EEs are great" banner. And I still have to laugh at someone saying that they have never been killed in PvP. As far as being the zerg, I can see that if you were on a smaller server where one ally rules, but you're on Bartz (according to your sig) and for you to have never been killed in pvp that would either mean you are the best pvper in the game or that you've not been involved in lots of pvp. But w/e, you're right, that has nothing to do with the topic.
Anyone ever seen people specifically requesting an EE for their party? If so please make a screenshot of that wondrous occasion, I want to see such a rarity.
Taraza is right, archer parties like EEs. Bishops are useless in those parties because they can't recharge. SEs are slower - both in casting speed and running speed. Root is nice, but archer parties kill mobs so fast it would be a waste of mp to root every mob. An EE is perfect for archer parties, because of agility (building on the SR's strength) and decrease weight (just a bonus, not a must-have). They are better rechargers than SEs because of their mp regen and they are great for crowd control with sleep. In an archer party, you don't need a full-time crowd control player, like an SpS, you just need it occasionally, and the EE is perfect for that. However, there are more EEs LFG out there than there are archer parties. You only need 1 EE for a full 9 person group. And in my experience, archer parties are well organized, with constant members (usually from the same clan) that play together for hours every day, so it's usually just luck if you get into one.
So, do I understand correctly that a lot of people think that the EE is so good that it doesnt need a little boost in spells to make it more compatible to the SE/prophet/bishop?
This post was in reply to my post... I'm not sure if it was intended in reply to my post (which had been several posts earlier) or just a general post. So in answer to your question - heck no! EEs need some serious help. I've made countless posts about it in the past, one of my threads even got a response from AshNC, saying I presented some new and interesting aspects on EEs and that he'd send it on to "the higher powers". And has anything come of that? Of course not. I was really, really hoping that C4 would bring about some changes for EEs, but of course, I was sorely disappointed. Now, I don't think they'll ever help EEs out. If they haven't done it after 4 chronicles, they're not going to do it. In my opinion, EEs need either purify or greater group heal. That wouldn't make us the best healers around, but it might just bump us up to a close third as opposed to a 500 miles distant third. Yes, we suck that much.
I rerolled to a SpS/SE long ago. I love my EE. I really enjoy being the healer and for me, playing an SE just isn't the same. I wish I could level my EE, but how? I rerolled because it was so hard to get groups - everyone wanted an SE or Bishop. Right now I dual box my SpS and SE, but I'd need a third account with an oop SE to duo my EE and SpS. That's just ******ed, IMO. Empower is the most important buff for mages, you just can't level without it. I wish they'd put empower in a bottle. I mean, they put the prophet's main buffs (haste, acumen) in bottles, they put the EE's main functions (PR/Rez) in scrolls and they put the Bishop's rez in a scroll - why are the SEs the only ones who get to keep their precious skills (empower/vr)? That really ticks me off. If empower in-a-bottle was as available as acumen, then mages could duo with EEs or use EEs for mage groups rather than SEs. It would help EEs out so much. Then I could actually level my EE, who has not gained a % since last spring.
Since this is the Suggestions forum, perhaps I can make a suggestion. It seems to me that EE and SE should be polar opposites in the game, which they, for the most part, are. SE gets offensive buffs, EE gets defensive ones. SE, however, gets one buff that, for melee DD's, makes hunting almost constant (no down time). VR is hugely useful to the melee DD, and it strikes me that the EE do not get a buff that really measures up to it.
In the interest of keeping the classes close to opposites, perhaps EE should get a fundamentally opposite buff. VR restores HP when you hit a mob. EE could perhaps get a buff that damages a mob when it hits you. Yeah, damage reflection buffs already exist, but I think it would be cool and might make good sense if EE got em too.
Any takers?
How about mp leach? with recharge would make awesome mage party
Funny thing is, SPS, I strongly believe EEs need a BIG boost to compete with Bishops and SEs, but your posts are so volatile that I find myself wanting to take up the "EEs are great" banner. And I still have to laugh at someone saying that they have never been killed in PvP. As far as being the zerg, I can see that if you were on a smaller server where one ally rules, but you're on Bartz (according to your sig) and for you to have never been killed in pvp that would either mean you are the best pvper in the game or that you've not been involved in lots of pvp. But w/e, you're right, that has nothing to do with the topic.
Anyone ever seen people specifically requesting an EE for their party? If so please make a screenshot of that wondrous occasion, I want to see such a rarity.
Taraza is right, archer parties like EEs. Bishops are useless in those parties because they can't recharge. SEs are slower - both in casting speed and running speed. Root is nice, but archer parties kill mobs so fast it would be a waste of mp to root every mob. An EE is perfect for archer parties, because of agility (building on the SR's strength) and decrease weight (just a bonus, not a must-have). They are better rechargers than SEs because of their mp regen and they are great for crowd control with sleep. In an archer party, you don't need a full-time crowd control player, like an SpS, you just need it occasionally, and the EE is perfect for that. However, there are more EEs LFG out there than there are archer parties. You only need 1 EE for a full 9 person group. And in my experience, archer parties are well organized, with constant members (usually from the same clan) that play together for hours every day, so it's usually just luck if you get into one.
So, do I understand correctly that a lot of people think that the EE is so good that it doesnt need a little boost in spells to make it more compatible to the SE/prophet/bishop?
This post was in reply to my post... I'm not sure if it was intended in reply to my post (which had been several posts earlier) or just a general post. So in answer to your question - heck no! EEs need some serious help. I've made countless posts about it in the past, one of my threads even got a response from AshNC, saying I presented some new and interesting aspects on EEs and that he'd send it on to "the higher powers". And has anything come of that? Of course not. I was really, really hoping that C4 would bring about some changes for EEs, but of course, I was sorely disappointed. Now, I don't think they'll ever help EEs out. If they haven't done it after 4 chronicles, they're not going to do it. In my opinion, EEs need either purify or greater group heal. That wouldn't make us the best healers around, but it might just bump us up to a close third as opposed to a 500 miles distant third. Yes, we suck that much.
I rerolled to a SpS/SE long ago. I love my EE. I really enjoy being the healer and for me, playing an SE just isn't the same. I wish I could level my EE, but how? I rerolled because it was so hard to get groups - everyone wanted an SE or Bishop. Right now I dual box my SpS and SE, but I'd need a third account with an oop SE to duo my EE and SpS. That's just ******ed, IMO. Empower is the most important buff for mages, you just can't level without it. I wish they'd put empower in a bottle. I mean, they put the prophet's main buffs (haste, acumen) in bottles, they put the EE's main functions (PR/Rez) in scrolls and they put the Bishop's rez in a scroll - why are the SEs the only ones who get to keep their precious skills (empower/vr)? That really ticks me off. If empower in-a-bottle was as available as acumen, then mages could duo with EEs or use EEs for mage groups rather than SEs. It would help EEs out so much. Then I could actually level my EE, who has not gained a % since last spring.
Right so your calling my class a non-threat factor, considering all my pvp is done in dungeons and hunting grounds such as catacombs where i meet people in rival clans i do very well. You'll notice the lack of space to move in such places so being kited is not a problem, as for being to weak to target first...you think hitting some1 for 3.5k Dmg in 3 seconds is weak? I dont that almost kills a mage instantly. TSS,TS x2 chargestone, DSS, /incorrect target.
On bartz we dont often get one dominate alliance so its very hard to get rolled on by a huge zerg, simply because on bartz we like to fight and argue so no one stays in power for too long, if on the smaller servers your getting pwned by a huge alliance all the time i suggest you rebel against it and destroy it from the inside.
All the things ive said about the EE are true, you just dont like to hear it. Point one thing out ive said thats wrong? SE have better buffs, true. Bishops are better healers, true. SE are more desired in groups...guess what its true. Just because i dont sugar coat things to make it sound like its no big deal...
People keep comparing EEs to bishops, SEs and prophet, but I think thats the wrong way of looking at it.
Of course they cannot beat SEs in what makes them great, they are not that much a bishop as a bishop, and they certainly are not prophets or warcriers either. So why compare?
Wether you like it or not, EEs can do a lot of things and there are situations in which it's better to have them around than any other support class. Those situations might not be too regular during everyday grinding... maybe that's why most players think EEs are gimp. But true EEs learn how to shine when they are needed, you will learn to value and respect them when you've seen them in action. Maybe you really don't need EEs on Bartz... just like Teon doesn't need BHs. However you could at least accept that some people grab the "defend EE" banner out of personal positive experience.
So, do I understand correctly that a lot of people think that the EE is so good that it doesnt need a little boost in spells to make it more compatible to the SE/prophet/bishop?
This post was in reply to my post... I'm not sure if it was intended in reply to my post (which had been several posts earlier) or just a general post. So in answer to your question - heck no! EEs need some serious help. more snip
Good, it seems we agree on that point. EE's need some loving badly (just as melee's need). That said, I still like my little EE. To bad I will probably never reach the exalted heights of having the instantanious party recall to truly appreciate its usefullness on a battlefield. Because I am unable to get myself into parties nowadays.
EEs have windshackle too - and sleep. They can also cast it faster.
The fact remains that in keeping a target alive in protection from a melee, the EE is superior to the SE (and before the windshackle nerf, was superior to the bishop also).
I think very few things are really necessary to fix them - just restoring windshackle to its original power and duration or giving out an arcane version of it might already suffice.
well I agree with SpS on one thing in this thread, how the hell can someone say a Gladiator is a non-threat?! thats just utter insanity right there. Run speed don't mean shiit when you got back-up to root or slow and Gladiators can maul most classes to death once they get to them, thats there only real obstacle, getting to the enemy. However with proper support that becomes less of a problem. And please don't feed me that BS most people say to me, "are you saying you need 2 classes to kill 1." NO, I'm not. Its truly not that difficult for a SE/Prophet to assist a Glad and cast Root and then go on with his business. Same with SwS or SH or whoever else has slow. A quick assist on a party memeber, cast slow/entangle, go back to your business. Its not that hard. Many classes are there simply for assistance, NOT killing. Let the killers do the bulk of the killing and let the support classes support the killers. Skilled Gladiators are to be FEARED, especially when they hit Duelist.
Root/Slow needs a flagged target. Root/Slow needs a distance 600. Root/Slow is not so easy to land on a buffed mage. Wind Shackle easily lands on a flagged Gladiator, but doesn't affect mages.
Actually, I have a suggestion that could make Gladiators (and other melees) love EE, and at the same time would not hurt other supports much (in PvE, I mean :)). Give Wind Walk 3 to EE.
well if they aren't flagging then let them run like cowards, lol. THEY are the non-threat then.
Personally I don't care much for PvP outside of seiges and clan warfare. If people trash talk and need an ***-whoopin' and run I just let them go. Its not worth it.
Except, of course, that an ES as well as the Seraphim are tough targets to take down.
The seraphim has the highest HP out of all the ESs summons, if it gets targeted for some obscure reason will probably be UDed (that's how many seconds of trying to kill it, failing and getting pummeled on by enemey DDs?), and the summoner himself is a very chewy target thanks to TP.
well I agree with SpS on one thing in this thread, how the hell can someone say a Gladiator is a non-threat?! thats just utter insanity right there. Run speed don't mean shiit when you got back-up to root or slow and Gladiators can maul most classes to death once they get to them, thats there only real obstacle, getting to the enemy. However with proper support that becomes less of a problem. And please don't feed me that BS most people say to me, "are you saying you need 2 classes to kill 1." NO, I'm not. Its truly not that difficult for a SE/Prophet to assist a Glad and cast Root and then go on with his business. Same with SwS or SH or whoever else has slow. A quick assist on a party memeber, cast slow/entangle, go back to your business. Its not that hard. Many classes are there simply for assistance, NOT killing. Let the killers do the bulk of the killing and let the support classes support the killers. Skilled Gladiators are to be FEARED, especially when they hit Duelist.
Are you a gladiator? I ask because the only people I hear call Gladi a pvp class are the Gladis themself.
Typically I see a Gladi do this in pvp: Sonic Blaster one opponent, then spend the rest of the time chasing a soft target around...which would be great if I hired one as a physical trainer. The rest of the time, they're sleeping on the job.
But I digress, this thread isn't about Gladis. That deserves its own thread.
Bottom Line:
If you rely on pick-up parties (yuck) to xp, reroll your EE immediately.
If you like having things easy and being an inert leech of a healer, reroll.
If you think NC is going to boost your class, reroll or learn to cope with the EE in its current state.
If you want to be the best pvp healer in the game, learn to play your EE and get into a clan that will appreciate you (they ARE out there).
Lol what a noob glad if he just does a blaster, (why even a blaster?) then runs pointlessly. Why waste time makeing a new thread when we can discuss it here, this thread has gone way off topic anyway. Would you like to see some replays of how a glad should pvp? Maybe i should make a video guide for all those noob glads out there who make us look bad. I swear 99% of gladiators have never even heard of a charge stone, let alone know what the hell it does AND they dont even carry a blunt for stun.
Lol what a noob glad if he just does a blaster, (why even a blaster?) then runs pointlessly. Why waste time makeing a new thread when we can discuss it here, this thread has gone way off topic anyway. Would you like to see some replays of how a glad should pvp? Maybe i should make a video guide for all those noob glads out there who make us look bad. I swear 99% of gladiators have never even heard of a charge stone, let alone know what the hell it does AND they dont even carry a blunt for stun.
Haha, noob glad(s), I see them on both sides of the war carrying on like this. Ironically I like when they do the sonic buster because that's the only time they contribute to the pvp besides clean-up.
I can't believe that on Bartz, the biggest server, Glads don't know about charge stones. Well they do on Kain and it doesn't save them from being about as handy as a dwarf in pvp (actually WS might be more useful).
Stun? I could see this tactic helping in 1v1 melee, but in group pvp, a gladi is sleep/root/slow fodder (what does lionheart do anyway?) and with no way to actually reach an opponent, a gladi is just a sub-par nuker who has to wait ages between each shot. I suppose if our healer would root stuff for the gladi instead of heal whoever is being assist-targetted by the enemy, then gladi could get some kills :p
But yeah, sometimes we gank an enemy hunting party and our gladi gets a couple kills and he gets really happy. Please give me some advice so I can see him smile like this more often :)
I would greatly appreciate real advice instead of more theorycrafting though.
With the right gear, mental ageis you wont get slept/rooted on the siege field anyway. Lionheart when its lvl 3 basically prevents para/stun/sleep/root for 60 seconds. I have no troubles getting into the scrum pit to unleash on people, its easy, you see a huge fight going on you and your party then proceed to get into 900 range, the ranged DD's let lose, then when they react to that you run the lines and whomp em, they wont have time to switch targets before your in their face. You may die soon after but at least you can wail on them. Most of my pvp isnt siege based anyway, sieges are to few and far between. I take my anger out on scrubs in the hunting grounds, at least there getting to the target is a breeze. Also Glads have two ranged attacks, you can alternate the two so you dont ever stop attacking, but its costly in MP, as our all glad skills...Oh and when hammer crush gets fixed (its bugged atm) then most glads go around stunning the nukers and healers when in melee range, you dont have to physcially kill the target all the time, just prevent it from fighting so others can take care of business.
I watched an olympiad fight on bartz, the duelist didnt use a single charge stone and got owned because of it, my class is tarnished by people like him who have no freakin clue. People see a glad and laugh then go and kill it with ease, but this class requires the most skill to use out of any other class in-game, except maybe the tyrant, and since every1 is to scared to pvp they never learn how to play their class correclty. I think all major clans and alliances should make playing the PTS when it comes out a mandatory thing, you can pvp all day 24/7 and learn so much and at no cost also.
Im seriously thinking of makeing a video pvp guide for glads..i mean my god i know of only a few who know how to play this class.
Anyway im not comming back to this thread everything has been said and im not proof reading this utterly pointless post ive made, post count +1 ftw...
I don't know why you guys are bothering to discuss this with SPS. He clearly doesn't understand how to play or make use of an EE in the appropriate situations.
At any rate, as for the original topic (EE's sucking), at the siege last Saturday, my EE took over 12k damage before dying (I took more, but I couldn't scroll back any further). I had an archer, nuker, and one other ranged DD attacking me (they were about my level). They couldn't kill me until the archer finally landed a stun shot and I couldn't keep healing myself. I was always the last to die in my party too. It helps to disguise yourself as a PW, everyone ignores them. EE's suck? Probably, but it was still fun.
Oh yeah, I got a PvP at the siege too. I have no idea how. Must have been when I was defending our overlord.
Speaking as an EE, I have gotten compliments in every party I have healed in. I get a party whenever i look for one, and I am prefered over most other healers when I am looking for a group because I know how to play my toon to its maximum potential. My clan actually has a higher number of EE's then SE's. In other words, I am extremely useful, and I am a EE, it all comes down to the player behind the toon, not the capabilities of the toon itself.
I think I'm finally getting back into the groove of healing, me and my gladiator duo partner hunted for 3hours straight, no rest or anything killing at a casual pace in EV. He's level 52 and I'm 46, we got 50% and 67% respectively. Ya thats right SPS, ee's can duo with a gladiator and kill at a steady rate with no downtime and not having to spam heals. I guess I take back my post about sucking. Got frustrated and posted for no real reason. It did generate some good discussion tho =). Just can't wait to hit 48 and get greater heal...mmmm.
I have discussed what I wanted to on EE, they are great when you use them right. But I HAD TO respond to that ingorant post about Gladiators being a non-threat, I thought it was just insane. And about summoner/summoners, true DDs kill the summoner NOT the summon. Unless somehting has changed I was under the impression that when the summoner dies he can't control teh summon nor use beast shots. Also Sleep in mass PvP= worthless. We got Waking Scrolls for idiots who think Sleep is good for mass PvP.
And the summoner is one of the hardest classes to drop in the game when outfitted properly (shield & health blunt > homu acumen for when the 25% are gone and of course potions and shots for healing).
No you can't control it once you are dead but if it was attacking something it will keep doing it until the target dies or leaves some how. Then it returns to you, too bad it can't rez you :)
Actually, I have a suggestion that could make Gladiators (and other melees) love EE, and at the same time would not hurt other supports much (in PvE, I mean :)). Give Wind Walk 3 to EE.
Cure slow/root wouldn't be bad, and having magic barrier sounds good since it's the 'defensive' buffer and it doesn't have anything against magic, giving them barrier also doesn't affect mages.
Another thing, EE is the only buffer that doesn't get the resist to the nuker of it's own race, resist aqua.
Don't tell it to EE. And don't tell it to Gladis, or they will forget fo put their Lionheart on. And when you are shackled, and your triple-slash gets interrupted by sleep...
And the summoner is one of the hardest classes to drop in the game when outfitted properly (shield & health blunt > homu acumen for when the 25% are gone and of course potions and shots for healing).
You'd be disgustingly surprised how fast a Destroyer or Gladiator can drop a summoner.
I've seen a few characters pummel on one of our stunned summoners and not dropping her.
Sure, without TP they're easy prey - with it? Good luck.
PS: Destroyers, obviously, dropping even tanks in one or two shots, will have no problem mowing down a summoner. Then, they don't have a problem mowing down anything.
PPS: Sleep in mass PvP is not a CC but an interrupt spell.