This raid boss exploit and the censorship around it needs to stop now. Ncsoft you need to deem this an exploit and send down the hammers quickly. Not one raid boss stood and has not since the exploit surfaced. 1 person should not be able to to do a raid boss, we have to contend with server police alliance types aka farmers on them already. What is taking so long on this, it is not like you didn't know about it in PTS.
****it people, use your heads. Although it is cute seeing so many people wanting to rise up and bestow upon us their revolutionary opinions on botters and exploiters, the topics will become deleted, and the GMs will address the situation at their discression.
I'm not sure it even counts as a exploit. Guess we will have to see.
I pmed a GM in game to see what he says about it. Have to let you know what he/she says.
According to the petition reply I got, it is not considered an exploit exactly. No idea what that means..is it legal?
if not an exploit, its certainly a bug... bugs like that should definitely be reported in. remember those free rides to dion from racetrack? no longer there, not an exploit, just a bug... but still fixed :p much as we liked the free travel lmao
GM´s it´s true that is dificult to found any raid boss up because of the farmers raids that owns everyone.
Why just don´t do raid bosses that only can be killed with a certain strategy?, thats mean for example Raids that only can be killed by melee, or by archers, or have their own form of attack for example a path that can be found throught a quest, or just thats need to do some quest, that would broke down the 20 nukers level 75 that kill 20 raid bosses in one day just with pure damague.
(they use to be 1 tank few healers and a bunch of nukers, that for a clan is no so realistic, but if you use to farm with the unattended trains that we are tired to see 24/7, you can have 20 75 nukers and whatever you want in one month)
I'm not sure it even counts as a exploit. Guess we will have to see.
It makes one person able to solo a raid boss in seconds.
If this is not an exploit, I don't know what is.
Lol yes, this definitely qualifies as an "exploit", and I am sure it will be either fixed or declared a bannable offense. This is simply taking advantage of a game flaw to get loot far easier than intended by the game designers, and that is pretty much the definition of an exploit.
There is not loot problem because raids do not drop anythin when using that exploit, but its huge powerleveling exploit people are leveling big time with it. It should be stopped now and offenders banned. Imagine going from 40 to 60 lvl in one day.
The situation is currently udner review, i posted screen shot in another thread about this. Give it a few weeks and im sure they will put raid bosses back to dealing no dmamage to weak hits again.
Its an exploits by all definitions of an exploit, two things in the game are being used contrary to what they're described as being able to be used as.
The only thing that can be decided is wether its a legal exploit, but seriously, anyone with just a tiny ounce of sense can see that having people soloing raidbosses 24/7 is a BAD thing for the game.
Shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes of talks to decide on this matter, not days or weeks. Every day this exploit goes on, the game will be flooded with items slowly.
Is that such a bad thing? I would love to see item prices finally go down for A grade.
Yes, it is. If NCSoft wants A-grade or whatever prices to go down, then they should make an event that give them, not let an exploit run, which is usually just getting exploited by the worst of L2 anyway.
There is not loot problem because raids do not drop anythin when using that exploit, but its huge powerleveling exploit people are leveling big time with it. It should be stopped now and offenders banned. Imagine going from 40 to 60 lvl in one day.
Great!!
Stuff like this makes me sooooo mad! I work my [censored] off to level and grind and people use this exploit to level up right past me!!! ****** off customer does not even begin to express what I feel right now.
This gets the BS award!! Legit customer who plays the game as intended gets the shaft once more! I want all these people that exploit this banned, if not I just might ban myself with the cancel button! >:(
There is not loot problem because raids do not drop anythin when using that exploit, but its huge powerleveling exploit people are leveling big time with it. It should be stopped now and offenders banned. Imagine going from 40 to 60 lvl in one day.
What are you talking about, you get loot when doing this exploit too. There's even several movies of people getting massive loots off the mobs.
****it people, use your heads. Although it is cute seeing so many people wanting to rise up and bestow upon us their revolutionary opinions on botters and exploiters, the topics will become deleted, and the GMs will address the situation at their discression.
Just an fyi, this exploit has been around since >>C3<< and has been reported since c3 BUT NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE.
How about you look at the fact and make your own opinion, instead of parroting what you are told.
Aye, you do get loot from it, so it affects the economy alot. NCSoft should really fix all the bugs and exploits that were found on PTS long before they get a chronicle update on Lives. Shame on you guys, really poor work here. The Olympiad bug was known on PTS, the raidboss exploit was known on PTS and still both are usable on the Live Servers. Dont you guys even read what people report to you? Even Blizzard is better at fixing bugs and exploits ffs, get a grip guys.
Aye, you do get loot from it, so it affects the economy alot. NCSoft should really fix all the bugs and exploits that were found on PTS long before they get a chronicle update on Lives. Shame on you guys, really poor work here. The Olympiad bug was known on PTS, the raidboss exploit was known on PTS and still both are usable on the Live Servers. Dont you guys even read what people report to you? Even Blizzard is better at fixing bugs and exploits ffs, get a grip guys.
The Blizzard coding team is here in the US at the same location as the rest of the company. That isn't the case for L2.
One of thing for people to keep in mind. There is a different mindset on the Korean servers and it's possible (I don't know for sure) that the people there are not using this exploit. If the exploit is not a problem in other markets (who are MUCH larger) than the US base, they are not going to fix it quite as fast.
The code has to be changed other places than here, then localized. It's not necessarily a fast process and we don't get top priority because we don't generate the revenue the other countries do.
I don't pretend to know what decisions and follow up have to go into making something bannable, but making something bannable if you can't enforce it is just not efficient.
Edit: What I mean here is that I'm all for them making it bannable, but I don't know if they can actually easily follow up on it.
If we don't get the same priority that shouldn't matter.
The GM's have the power to see those that do it and take action upon them. If they are relentlessly banning the exploiters people will learn to stop, if they don't they get banned.
Quite simple, doesn't require Korea to do anything and I would like to think that the GM's are working on this very issue.
LordChaos is correct it should take no longer than a 10minute meeting if that to decide that this is bannable and to remove those exploiters.
I don't know how many of you have ever had to comb logs for information, but I do that often in my job. It's an absolute royal pain in the rear!
My point is, without tools and manpower banning something just isn't that simple.
Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see people cheating get banned... it just isn't always as easy as people like to think. I know Lord Chaos has extensive computer experience and I'm sure he understands what I mean.
Again, I do think it should be stopped. I'm all for that.
This bug must be fixed and everybody who has exploited it banned. Nobody believes the I didnt know it was bannable offence here.
Once more it is he who tries to game honestly get punished for his honesty. Ban ban ban then ban some more. Is it truly that hard to understand? Punish good, punish often make cheaters understand that cheating will always get you banned sooner or later.
Whoa just realized pl city O_o
I have been raiding with a group regularly on one of my characters and 10% each boss at about 46...and that is divided by 3 groups of nine. Lol, average math wise, if the boss would get the group and the 46 an average of 10%...then solo they would get about 2.7 levels. And people thought AoE parties were bad :confused:
It was reported during PTS from my understanding by a number of people. There are certain groups of people that proabably had the heads up since C4 tends to come out elsewhere before here. Just another example of why we need an NCNA dev team.
Still no word on this exploit and its legality. Also don't my usual ranting get deleted by now? Do love how some think these are "revolutionary opinions on bots/farmers" or whatever was said.
And that's what makes the "brokenness" factor so high.
REALLY horrible to see peeps solo raid bosses with no danger.
They are not cheaters, they are exploiters. Cheating is using the game in a way it wasn'T intented, thus gaining an unfair advantage.
Exploiting is playing the game how it was intented, but using a flaw in the system to gain an unfair advantage.
Cheaters is a problem with the user. Exploiters is a problem with the system. This SHOULD be addressed. FAST. Nobody needs to be banned, but fix this leak, because people are exploiting the game BIG TIME.
Provide one valid reason why those who have exploited this and continue to do so should not be banned?
They didn't know? Well it is kind of obvious what this is and if someone accidentally figured this out they should immediately report their findings to support via the website.
It's NC's fault? Yeah exploits are generally the result of something being overlooked and this is the case in any game. There is always a hole or a new way of doing things that people find in these games, especially when money is involved. Even more reason to ban those that exploit it.
NC didn't warn that it was bannable? So what, they can and should ban anyone using such an exploit they don't need to warn you. A lot of people are saying "exploit the hell out of this until NC announces it's bannable then stop". Why do they say this? Because they think they can use an exploit to gain an advantage themselves without risk of being banned. That kind of thing should not be allowed to take place.
Everyone using this exploit should be banned. Especially the ones who start doing it now because they think they can get away with it. The farmers who probably started this know it's wrong but they don't care as long as they make the profit until it's fixed. Farmer operations have many people working round the clock to find exploits/holes/cheats for all mmorpgs and L2 is sadly no exception. If they can find a dupe or an exploit like this they will use it as much as they can in order to make a profit in real life.
If NC does not ban those who have exploited this and also those who continue to encourage others to exploit this then I believe NC is making a mistake.
Provide one valid reason why those who have exploited this and continue to do so should not be banned?
Because they are not cheating.
They are EXPLOITING a flaw in the system. This flaw was reported, but got no fix. You can blame the speedy PTS time on C4 for that.
We need some kind of official stance on this. Good greif when they hacked the item database they closed the whole **** server. This exploit is even worst, because it gives you XP all well as items.
When players exploit, you only have the system designers to blame, unless the QA people missed it.
There not exploiting anything, the response i got which i put as a screenie somewhere, was that it is fine to kill RB this way, for now at least, it may be subject to change in the future. Meaning they are looking at the situation and deciding if they should change it. In the mean time people who have been told its not a bannable offense and are out doing this getting free gear/lvl's should not be banned as it has been stated it is not an offense. Hurry up and change the system back to how it was, make RB not hit back if you dont hurt enough, problem solved?
There not exploiting anything, the response i got which i put as a screenie somewhere, was that it is fine to kill RB this way, for now at least, it may be subject to change in the future. Meaning they are looking at the situation and deciding if they should change it.
So you're saying soloing RaidBosses is perfectly normal and "intended" as a way of playing ?
It's not. Hence why this is an exploit. It's not cheating, because use the game in a normal way (mechanically) but alas, the mechanical flaw makes it people gain an unfair advantage.
Cant publise exploits, but... maybe you should go to l2blah.com
excuse me?...cant publish exploits? so your labelling this an exploit when NCSoft hasnt said it is or it isnt..hmmmm?
amazing that the players know its an exploit...
If its not an exploit then we need to publish how to do this to the general public. Myself and the original poster will be telling the ingame players via normal chat ...how to do this "non expoit"...then we will see how NCSoft deals with the issue in-game.
hmmmm? I just love being told that famous line ..."oh we cant publish game exploits"....baaah
if this isnt an exploit then NCsoft wont mind the trick being made knowledgeable to everyone.
There's something about the word exploit that people don't seem to understand. To exploit something is to take advantage of it. Go look it up in a dictionary, it doesn't say "EXPLOITERS ARE CHEATERS LOLOL BAN BAN". Here's the difference:
1. If you could use a certain 5 skills in a row to double all of your stats and drop 50 billion adena on the ground because it was a bug in the game's code, that would be a cheat.
2. The people performing this feat are taking advantage of a combination of skills and items in the game. The skills and items are not being used in a way that makes them perform functions other than what their descriptions might suggest.
If you think these people should be banned, then maybe you should also consider starting up threads about Necros and mages. Perhaps mages should be banned for exploiting their ability to level quickly. Or maybe Necros should be banned for using transfer pain in pvp to beat any other class in the game 1v1.
Though doing it does not in any way go against the rules of the game, I'm sure that NC will start to enforce a policy against this type of raid boss soloing. Much like they did with training mobs to town. Nothing in the game rules said it was prohibited, but to appease the player masses, rules must be altered.
Note that I do not have the necessary character type or items required to farm raid bosses solo, but I have seen it done and thought that it was fairly amusing. Although I do not think the people doing it should be banned, they do need to somehow prevent it from being done in the future as it definitely provides that small group of people with a brutally unfair XP/item gaining advantage.
We are aware of this issue and we are currently investigating it now. Please do not post any details about a possible exploit on the official message board, or the post will be removed. Thank you!
LOL. so it is an exploit? Make your minds up jeez.
Why would a GM direct me to discuss the matter on the forums, so as i can have my posts deleted? Get a clue GM's.
LOL. so it is an exploit? Make your minds up jeez.
Well, not yet. It's still under investigation... ROFL !
But you still can't talk about it.
This is like a guy running out of a bank with a party mask on and a bag with a dollar sign on it.
So you hail the police : LOOK ! Bank robber !
And the police officer looks at you, pauses for about 30 seconds, then tells you : "yes, we are investigating this. But don'T talk to anyone about how he did it."
We are aware of this issue and we are currently investigating it now. Please do not post any details about a possible exploit on the official message board, or the post will be removed. Thank you!
By this logic it is an exploit and I demand that anyone that has done it be Banned!
You guys might want to put a hussle on it too, the people that have benefited from it continue todo it until you say its an exploit!
actually they are exploiting, the descriptions of the involved "things" clearly shows that this is not an intented way of function, hence regardless of wether its seen as legal or not, its an exploit.
1. They shouldn't ban people now, because previous policy has been to "allow exploit until we deem it bannable". Its a bad policy they're running, but they shouldn't change the policy in the middle of one occuring. They should change the policy afterwards.
2. It is a cheat, the "state" involved in the exploit is CLEARLY stated as to not being able to do what its doing. Hence its both a cheat AND an exploit.
Mistyl stop beating around the bush and give a full answer, if i go and do this now, will i be banned in the future if u decide its is an exploit? Also why bother trying to silence it now, every man and his dog (wolf?) knows about this.
Just an fyi, this exploit has been around since >>C3<< and has been reported since c3 BUT NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE.
How about you look at the fact and make your own opinion, instead of parroting what you are told.
You BSed your way into making some cheap blanket statements, and you want me to look at the facts? To formulate an original opinion? To stop 'parroting what I am told'?
Sorry, but being an ignorant liar is not the way I roll.
Just an fyi, this exploit has been around since >>C3<< and has been reported since c3 BUT NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE.
How about you look at the fact and make your own opinion, instead of parroting what you are told.
You BSed your way into making some cheap blanket statements, and you want me to look at the facts? To formulate an original opinion? To stop 'parroting what I am told'?
Sorry, but being and ignorant liar is not the way I roll.
Sorry friend, but you are the ignorant liar. Telling us we are stupid for posting here, and that nc is working on this is what is BS.
I didn't make anything up. This IS A CHRONICAL 3 BUG. It has been ABUSED all throughout CHRONICAL 3 and NOW CHRONICAL 4. It has been REPORTED numberous TIMES and NC has given THE EXACT same RESPONCE YOU DID. Mistril just did it again!
The only difference between then and now is that it takes ALOT less effort to abuse, making it much more obvious to people who dont play the game like yourself!
LOL. so it is an exploit? Make your minds up jeez.
Well, not yet. It's still under investigation... ROFL !
But you still can't talk about it.
This is like a guy running out of a bank with a party mask on and a bag with a dollar sign on it.
So you hail the police : LOOK ! Bank robber !
And the police officer looks at you, pauses for about 30 seconds, then tells you : "yes, we are investigating this. But don'T talk to anyone about how he did it."
Muahahahahahahahahahha !
Have Fun ! ™
BoardPK
Official Board Devil
Concerned Citizen: Hey, Police, there is a hole in the bank vault!
Police officer: O'Rly [Que Bird Picture]
[Que bank robber entering vault]
Concerned Citizen: SIR! Bank Robber just stole all that money!
Police officer: O'Rly [Que Bird Picture, with ski mask]
Police officer: hold while we figure out if this is a crime! Oh, and don't show anyone that hole.
Sorry friend, but you are the ignorant liar. Telling us we are stupid for posting here, and that nc is working on this is what is BS.
Beating dead horses serve no purpose. Demanding a public statement about the situation serves no purpose. Repeating posts that we know mods read, and delete, serve no purpose.
I didn't make anything up. This IS A CHRONICAL 3 BUG. It has been ABUSED all throughout CHRONICAL 3 and NOW CHRONICAL 4. It has been REPORTED numberous TIMES and NC has given THE EXACT same RESPONCE YOU DID. Mistril just did it again!
The only difference between then and now is that it takes ALOT less effort to abuse, making it much more obvious to people who dont play the game like yourself!
Prove it. Me and SPS know why it couldn't have been possible ( though his post was deleted ). I want to hear your take. Keep it to PM if you have to.... but I want to see you try to prove yourself.
1. They shouldn't ban people now, because previous policy has been to "allow exploit until we deem it bannable". Its a bad policy they're running, but they shouldn't change the policy in the middle of one occuring. They should change the policy afterwards.
2. It is a cheat, the "state" involved in the exploit is CLEARLY stated as to not being able to do what its doing. Hence its both a cheat AND an exploit.
They should change this policy pronto.
Why?
Because there are people looking for exploits every time knowing they can gain millions from it. Right now they know they are safe so long as they keep their mouth shut about it. Until people start complaining, the thing gets forbidden and they are of looking for the next exploit. Rinse and repeat.
You want them to stop using any exploits (known and unknown). Hence you need to punish those exploiting.
Some1 can link me to banning policy, cos i want to know if i can go out and do this without consequence, i know mistyl is reading this, just chosing to delete posts instead of answering serious questions. Make DM a mod, he knows what hes talking bowt.
If I was actually a mod, you wouldn't see the same jolly barking dog. It just wouldn't be BoardPK'ing with a banhammer.
It would be an exploit... Muahahahahahahaha !
Have Fun ! ™
BoardPK
Official Board Devil
Like others have said, give Dark the keys to boards for just a second the place will be in flames with darkmotion holding a single que-tip stating with a grin it was the only thing he could save.
WTB High level Buffleo!
"V" for Vendeta......... (good movie btw) But have I seen it before the masses? Hmmm let me get back to you on that......
What is very "broken" with it is that your can power lvl a lvl1 noob from 1 to 30 with like 1 raid boss that kill himself in like 3-4 minutes. This really have to be fixed asap.
Okay, folks; NCSoft is aware of the problem and has started their procedures to fix it. We should take a few steps back, calm down, and give them some time to decide on a fair resolution. Flaming each other won't speed the process.
It is clear to me that unfair advantages have been obtained, but I would not expect folks to get banned for actions prior to this being declared an exploit. Whether they will be allowed to retain the items and xp obtained is a different story. I would not be surprised to see 'corrections' made to these.
They havent started to fix anything, all they say is they are reviewing the situation, what is there to review >.>?
Also i doubt they would have the ability to go and take away peoples exp/items because items trade hands so quickly it would be impossible to trace.
BUT WAIT there is another bigger exploit that needs to be taken care of.....BLESSED SPIRIT SHOTS!! OMG!! REMOVE THIS EXPLOIT (and ban all the mages that used them) AT ONCE!!
you bunch of whining carebears make me wanna quit l2. but why should i quit? go play AO or even better, RoseOnline. :D
What the hell does this have to do with "carebear", other than allowing the exploit to exist makes the game more carebear, since many people can just superlevel themselves and items will flood the market eventually.
Oh wait, you're probably in the process of exploiting this exploit and don't want it patched, I gotcha.
Well she did say not to post any details on the "Offical" forums. There are several "Un-Offical" forums out there. If you really want to force NC Soft's hand maybe do as she said and not post the details on the Offical site. Be kind of like blackmail though maybe...fix it or the details will be made public on some other forum.
The details are already very public. Hell I would probably be doing it if I had a high level pet and there was for sure no risk of being banned. Or, you know, ruining things for other people.
There's something about the word exploit that people don't seem to understand. To exploit something is to take advantage of it. Go look it up in a dictionary, it doesn't say "EXPLOITERS ARE CHEATERS LOLOL BAN BAN". Here's the difference:
1. If you could use a certain 5 skills in a row to double all of your stats and drop 50 billion adena on the ground because it was a bug in the game's code, that would be a cheat.
2. The people performing this feat are taking advantage of a combination of skills and items in the game. The skills and items are not being used in a way that makes them perform functions other than what their descriptions might suggest.
If you think these people should be banned, then maybe you should also consider starting up threads about Necros and mages. Perhaps mages should be banned for exploiting their ability to level quickly. Or maybe Necros should be banned for using transfer pain in pvp to beat any other class in the game 1v1.
Though doing it does not in any way go against the rules of the game, I'm sure that NC will start to enforce a policy against this type of raid boss soloing. Much like they did with training mobs to town. Nothing in the game rules said it was prohibited, but to appease the player masses, rules must be altered.
Note that I do not have the necessary character type or items required to farm raid bosses solo, but I have seen it done and thought that it was fairly amusing. Although I do not think the people doing it should be banned, they do need to somehow prevent it from being done in the future as it definitely provides that small group of people with a brutally unfair XP/item gaining advantage.
I think number 1 actually describes this exploit pretty darn well...
because its NOT an exploit. whine all you want. Gm's already spoken about it (and FYI my pets are all lvl 25)
you bunch of whining carebears make me wanna quit l2. but why should i quit? go play AO or even better, RoseOnline. :D
What the hell does this have to do with "carebear", other than allowing the exploit to exist makes the game more carebear, since many people can just superlevel themselves and items will flood the market eventually.
Oh wait, you're probably in the process of exploiting this exploit and don't want it patched, I gotcha.
^^^Umm yea thats why Raid Bosses are called RAID instead of Solo Bosses. Anyone that has ever made the mistake of seeing a green or blue con Raid boss and think they could solo it before this issue knows that even low lvl raid bosses are not something you can do solo.
Question is why are you defending it so much? Are you using this "bug/exploit" to your advantage? Are others using it and your gainning from it? Or you just being a ***** that likes to go the opposite of others just so you can stroke your e-preen and make yourself feel all cool and stuff?
You seem like the type that someone running out of a burning house screaming MY HOUSE IS BURNING MY HOUSE IS BURNING...you would say no its not just to be the opposite of them in hopes of getting some sick entertainment out of it for your own ghoulish pleasure.
And yes the GM's are saying they are taking a look at it. I seem to remember the last couple times something came up that people appealed about and the GM"s were reviewing did IN FACT turn out to be a bug/exploit that was made a bannable offense untill they were able to correct it.
So why don't you do us all a favor...keep defending it the way you are...go in game and farm the heck out of raid bosses this way because the GM's are looking at it and in your mind that means its fine to use. Keep doing it so they ban your account and you can go crying to your mommie that your online life has ended BOO HOOO...sniff sniff.
Question is why are you defending it so much? Are you using this "bug/exploit" to your advantage? Are others using it and your gainning from it? Or you just being a ***** that likes to go the opposite of others just so you can stroke your e-preen and make yourself feel all cool and stuff?
GM's have simply so far said its not a BANNABLE exploit, that doesn't make it not an exploit.
What would you expect from third tier GM's? All they can do is report the issue to an higher tier and they they will go over it on a meeting that will be postponed because one of them has to visit the dentist. And then another time when the boss has a meeting in Korea. Then after a few weeks (if it is still on the agenda) they will ponder about this.
I expect an answer in 1 month. I predict that they will declare this an exploit and that the ones who do this will face diciplinary acvtions. Of course nobody will be banned by doing this before that time.
GM's have simply so far said its not a BANNABLE exploit, that doesn't make it not an exploit.
I agree.
They won't let us give details (that's the proof it's an exploit, a flaw in game design).
If I follow my experience with exploits and game design flaws, NC keeps VERY quiet about this (with reason, I mean who the Hell would admit openly they made a mistake... It's just not good business wise).
People WILL exploit this, just as long as they don'T declare it a bannable offense (more work for them) or just fix the exploit (also more work, but punctual instead of infinite...).
My guess is they will fix it in silence. If you ask them if they have any idea when it will be fixed, you'll get the "Korean No", wich is basically no response at all.
Some folks should just try it out once in a while and see if it still works... I've seen exploits last WHOLE chronicles...
Not that this solves the underlying problem, but if you see someone doing this, just PK him and take the raid drops for yourself. He's just one guy, after all, and there's a reason you don't want to leave a pile of expensive gear on the ground *evil grin*
Personlly I dont think anyone should get banned until NCSoft actually says it's an exploit. People have asked GM's in-game if it's an exploit and they have said "not at this time" and its not bannable. If a GM tells someone this then they should not be banned if they do decide it's an exploit unless they continue to do so after it has been announced. Even though it might be a lower-tier GM that told them it's OK they should take responsibility for what they tell the players since they could easily foward it to a higher level GM if they weren't sure.
Personlly I dont think anyone should get banned until NCSoft actually says it's an exploit. People have asked GM's in-game if it's an exploit and they have said "not at this time" and its not bannable. If a GM tells someone this then they should not be banned if they do decide it's an exploit unless they continue to do so after it has been announced. Even though it might be a lower-tier GM that told them it's OK they should take responsibility for what they tell the players since they could easily foward it to a higher level GM if they weren't sure.
Ive screen shotted my convo with a high-tier gm, so if any1 is banned, theres some proof at least, that they should not have been banned.
Personlly I dont think anyone should get banned until NCSoft actually says it's an exploit. People have asked GM's in-game if it's an exploit and they have said "not at this time" and its not bannable. If a GM tells someone this then they should not be banned if they do decide it's an exploit unless they continue to do so after it has been announced. Even though it might be a lower-tier GM that told them it's OK they should take responsibility for what they tell the players since they could easily foward it to a higher level GM if they weren't sure.
Regardless of how they put it, its an exploit. The whole matter is wether or not its a legal exploit or illegal exploit.
That will be up to NCSoft to decide. It still amazes me that it takes so long for them to think this through. Someone needs to milk it first?
If we get this to 500 replies & 5k views or w/e it is to get this a flameing status, then maybe a GM will look at it and answer a simple question. All they have to do is make the raid boss para, and then STOP attacking. What sort of a dumb *** mob attacks a target which can recieve no damage? Stupid *** developers. Almost as bad as stupid orcs in nub lands still going agro on me when im clearly in superior equipment to them, they seriously think they can even land a hit >.>???
Of course it is, if I found a way to make myself a trillion gold by clicking a single NPC, it would be an exploit, NCSoft could say, ok LC, we don't want to ban you. Then it wouldn't be a bannable exploit, but still an exploit.
Exploiting something doesn't require it to be punishable. Its perfectly within NCSofts right to allow us to exploit flaws in the game mechanics if they so deem it.
GM's have simply so far said its not a BANNABLE exploit, that doesn't make it not an exploit.
Nulla crime sine lege.
You cannot ban for something not mentioned in the EULA as bannable. The "exploiting NPC AI" part could be stretched to cover it, but under no circumstances should you expect them to ban anyone over anything, before it has been efficiently communicated to the users in a multidude of ways that "so and so" is a bannable offence - hence the latin in the beginning.
I was told by the GM that if they change the situation they will do so 'without warning' meaning when they change it to a bannable exploit they wont tell anyone and all of a sudden people will get mass-banned, and be like bbq i got pwned.
However, since this the EULA does not forbid NCSoft to make and enforce ex post facto laws (ie crime perpitrated b4 it was a crime) they can ban you for whatever they want, whenever they want. You do not own your character. They do.
That being said, bans loose them money. Every account banned is one less paying customer. So, I dont expect to see mass bannings from this.
You cannot ban for something not mentioned in the EULA as bannable.
Hogwash. They can ban whomever they want for whatever they want at any time.
Which is why they own all rights to the game and the accounts they allow us to use.
They control the game and these forums. They also do not like to admit when they are wrong, and they don't like us posting complaints about things that are wrong in the game like pro-farmers and bayers.
They'll fix this problem eventually and when they do those who used this will find other ways to do bad things. It's a nasty cycle.
Personlly I dont think anyone should get banned until NCSoft actually says it's an exploit. People have asked GM's in-game if it's an exploit and they have said "not at this time" and its not bannable. If a GM tells someone this then they should not be banned if they do decide it's an exploit unless they continue to do so after it has been announced. Even though it might be a lower-tier GM that told them it's OK they should take responsibility for what they tell the players since they could easily foward it to a higher level GM if they weren't sure.
Ive screen shotted my convo with a high-tier gm, so if any1 is banned, theres some proof at least, that they should not have been banned.
If they do not ban them then they have let a minority of exploiters not only gain huge rewards but disrupt many players gameplay by harvesting the bosses even faster than the armies of raid farmers.
To allow exploiters to gain so much and disrupt so many and leave them be is far worse than to ban them all without warning.
I would sooner ban a minority trying to gain an unfair advantage through an exploit than let those who avoid breaking the rules suffer for it.
Better to have say 500 accounts gone with a valid reason of "this is obviously an exploit, you knew this and still used it repeatedly", than to have 50,000 account holders who did the right thing suffer.
We all know the large majority of accounts that would be banned from exploiting this are likely farmers/botters. A small minority of genuine people who tried to exploit might get banned but that's their own fault for doing something that is clearly not supposed to be done. So do not say such things as NC will lose money on it.
I would venture to believe that NC has made more money from banning farmer accounts than they have lost, by far.
The only items still selling above crafting cost on Sieg are S grade. Many items are selling for 3/4 of what it costs to craft one, and falling.
Basically, the economy has completely collapsed and is awash in items. No matter what you're looking for, 5 people are in giran selling one (or 50,000) or them.
Not hard to see why. They will fix it, eventually.
The exploit is "monster abuse" according to the description in that NPC AI is being exploited thus a violation - still it has to be adjudicated as such by NCsoft.
My use of "cannot ban" was intended to mean "it is bad policy" not actual inability. They can set the servers on fire if they want to. The EULA is subject to unilateral modification, still one would expect that the modification actually takes place before it is enforced.
>>We are aware of this issue and we are currently investigating it now.
What's so difficult to figure; reflect dmg check is executed before the one giving zero dmg. The para check seems to be the last thus it is a BLANTANT bug and obvious exploit.
>>Please do not post any details about a possible exploit on the official message board, or the post will be removed.
GMs in game did reply it's not an exploit. So it's a client side bug or what?
Like stated above it's a blatant SERVER SIDE bug and so is the exploit. Official boards are not so popular due to the stiff restrictions, but virtually any sane player knows how to exploit it.
The exploit was known on PTS however due to chaos week it didn't get mega popularity.
Thus said. Any boss 70- (w/ dungeon ones) is a subject of the exploit.
>>Thank you!
What For?
For so many a day you can't make up your minds; just being grateful for not-sharing-obvious-exploit-that-might-be-deemed-possible.
...
The exploit is "monster abuse" according to the description in that NPC AI is being exploited thus a violation - still it has to be adjudicated as such by NCsoft.
My use of "cannot ban" was intended to mean "it is bad policy" not actual inability. They can set the servers on fire if they want to. The EULA is subject to unilateral modification, still one would expect that the modification actually takes place before it is enforced.
Well, then, you should've been careful when throwing out "facts" like "they cannot ban for _____" when you know it's not true. If that wasn't what you meant to say, take 5 seconds take type what you meant.
So, accuse me of being rude and I will accuse you of being stupid for typing something you didn't mean to type. Demon-hand syndrome or something?
Deleting posts obviously shows it's a bug being exploited. Now everyone knows about it...
Like shown there are plenty of ways to exploit it... Probably it did exist in C3.
Stop burying heads into the sands... Or at least - label it as one.
please!
It's been a few days since this thread was made, there's only been one statement from a L2 official. That statement said that the L2 team is checking out what is going on.
The ability to do this has been around since C4 came out, appearently people have known about the ability to kill bosses in this way since atleast C4 arrived on the live servers.
It reminds me of stories of when those quest monsters trees were being camped and killed for the great XP. This, IMO, falls under the same catagory - and those platers were not banned. This is a way for some players to reap the benifit of a system to kill bosses easily and gain better than average intem/loot/xp?.
I think that it will be changed but I don't think that the people that are taking advantage of it will be banned. We all 'know' that it is not 'right' but NCSoft has not deemed this as an exploit or bug and are doing things the way they think they should for the betterment of the game/players/company.
The same with training afk stores in towns. Have fun until you are unable to do it anymore.
GM´s it´s true that is dificult to found any raid boss up because of the farmers raids that owns everyone.
Why just don´t do raid bosses that only can be killed with a certain strategy?, thats mean for example Raids that only can be killed by melee, or by archers, or have their own form of attack for example a path that can be found throught a quest, or just thats need to do some quest, that would broke down the 20 nukers level 75 that kill 20 raid bosses in one day just with pure damague.
(they use to be 1 tank few healers and a bunch of nukers, that for a clan is no so realistic, but if you use to farm with the unattended trains that we are tired to see 24/7, you can have 20 75 nukers and whatever you want in one month)
the raid farmers raid as their thing and they have a system for it, why should they be punished because they put aside lvl'ing, to get organised to do raid boss's. You could do the same thing if all you did was raids and lvl. but no you have to talk to your firends for a couple hours or goto the MRT or sit in afk shops selling [censored].
GM´s it´s true that is dificult to found any raid boss up because of the farmers raids that owns everyone.
Why just don´t do raid bosses that only can be killed with a certain strategy?, thats mean for example Raids that only can be killed by melee, or by archers, or have their own form of attack for example a path that can be found throught a quest, or just thats need to do some quest, that would broke down the 20 nukers level 75 that kill 20 raid bosses in one day just with pure damague.
(they use to be 1 tank few healers and a bunch of nukers, that for a clan is no so realistic, but if you use to farm with the unattended trains that we are tired to see 24/7, you can have 20 75 nukers and whatever you want in one month)
the raid farmers raid as their thing and they have a system for it, why should they be punished because they put aside lvl'ing, to get organised to do raid boss's. You could do the same thing if all you did was raids and lvl. but no you have to talk to your firends for a couple hours or goto the MRT or sit in afk shops selling [censored].
I thought this was a joke when I first heard it, guess its not. If ncsoft knew how to do the right thing, this would already be deemed as a exploit by now. Guess ncsoft enjoys the economy being ruined. Gj ncsoft! Guess everyone better get their gear before a decision is made.
For those of you who do not get this joke, it is a reference to the opening scenes of Army of Darkness, where the hero, played by Bruce Campbell, tells the audience his hand became infested by an evil spirit, and the only way he could excise the demon was to cut off his hand with a chainsaw.
For those who think this had no connection to L2; the avatar used by AshNC was of Bruce Campbell in this movie.
For those of you who do not get this joke, it is a reference to the opening scenes of Army of Darkness, where the hero, played by Bruce Campbell, tells the audience his hand became infested by an evil spirit, and the only way he could excise the demon was to cut off his hand with a chainsaw.
For those who think this had no connection to L2; the avatar used by AshNC was of Bruce Campbell in this movie.
For those of you who do not get this joke, it is a reference to the opening scenes of Army of Darkness, where the hero, played by Bruce Campbell, tells the audience his hand became infested by an evil spirit, and the only way he could excise the demon was to cut off his hand with a chainsaw.
For those who think this had no connection to L2; the avatar used by AshNC was of Bruce Campbell in this movie.
What the hell, did NCNA send a freaking telegram to Korea to get their thoughts on this ****.
You ruin everything that "Normal" players have going for them at the moment when you make a post like this. Farmers control the raid bosses on my server and every other, this is the only way some "normal Players" can actually GET SOME LOOT and raid bosses. How about Use it yourself and stop complaining.
If the only way to fight the farmers is by doing this, then until NC gets off their [censored] and either fixes it or declares it bannable, I will use it. I take no pride in the fact that I do however, but there's no other way to combat the bots camping all the rb spawns.
I have a 76 Mystic Muse - Subclass 75 hawkeye, i will be the hero on kain
i also have 75 ol
75 glad with 75 bd subclass (not leveling for hero)
and a 60 prophet
Ive been around and seen it all, You CANNOT set times to do raids like other games simply because of farmers, the only ones you can "SET" is antharas, baium and them, and even then, you need 100-150 people who Already have done the quest.
That leaves the small allys with 30 or so people with nothing to do. This Trick is perfect, it means we can spot a raid boss and instantly port 10-15 people and get it straight away, not have to wait for 10 mages to be on and to go and find the farmers have already done it.
There are more benefits than negatives to using it.
Yes I stacked 11 pk's on farmers the other day when we had 15 people and they had 20... took their raid boss and got nm helm drop.... i stacked 35k KARMA yes 35k.
Next raid boss they tryed to pk us with 15 people, we got over 70 pvps between our guys, thats how many times they rezed, its absolutly stupid.
You know why i have so little posts, its because what we write here NEVER MATTERS, gm's couldnt give 2 craps thats the worst thing about ncsoft, the poor customer support. I mean its pretty dang obvious who the farmers are and their bot crews. Get rid of the Raid farmers and we will be happy for this exploit to go. Simple
You know why i have so little posts, its because what we write here NEVER MATTERS, gm's couldnt give 2 craps thats the worst thing about ncsoft, the poor customer support. I mean its pretty dang obvious who the farmers are and their bot crews. Get rid of the Raid farmers and we will be happy for this exploit to go. Simple
Being you have been around this long. You should know that what you says does matter.
And that the people doing the raid bosses have every right to farm them as you do.
What the hell, did NCNA send a freaking telegram to Korea to get their thoughts on this ****.
You ruin everything that "Normal" players have going for them at the moment when you make a post like this. Farmers control the raid bosses on my server and every other, this is the only way some "normal Players" can actually GET SOME LOOT and raid bosses. How about Use it yourself and stop complaining.
what he said. On Hindemith, raiding is a thing of the past. a farmer clan called Redguards has locked down the 66+ RB's 24/7. Our alliance tried raiding this weekend, not a single boss up. They are raiding at least 19 hours a day non-stop, from their office in China no doubt. Theres no way in hell we can compete with people whos JOB is farming RB's in L2.
Just BAN THEM and give us our server back.
The RB issue is more then funny now, every single lvl 60+ RB is camped, i been trying to scout for RB's and they all got some small party..sitting..waiting..And strangly its always a sorc/sps thats camping it o.O i wonder why....
hi all heard aboot this thread and came runnin think aboot this ....the farmers are getting nearly all the raid bosses atm but this gives the real players a chance to get them before the lil scout farmer logs in... i beg u please promote keeping this going OR ...get all the raid boss farmers banned?
My ally hasn' t done a single Raid, for 1,5 week.
Before the exploit became known, we did 1-3 a day.
Beating the reflexes of professional farmers was very hard, and it needed a bit of luck and very strict organization in the ally when a RB was spotted alive.
But beating the reflexes of duo exploiters, is just impossible.
The exploiters are ruing our game just as the ones they are accusing (the RB farmers) did. And if I must be more precise, they are ruing it in much greater degree.
The proffessional RB farmers is a great problem that has to be solved partially or fully. I have petitioned the ones in my server, expecting NC to take some action.
But IN NO WAY, the current riddiculus situation is a solution to the problem.
As the OP says the exploit needs format address IMIDIATELY. And until a fix is applied, name it as a bannable action.
what he said. On Hindemith, raiding is a thing of the past. a farmer clan called Redguards has locked down the 66+ RB's 24/7. Our alliance tried raiding this weekend, not a single boss up. They are raiding at least 19 hours a day non-stop, from their office in China no doubt. Theres no way in hell we can compete with people whos JOB is farming RB's in L2.
Just BAN THEM and give us our server back.
It's the same on every server. Farmers have a monopoly on all raid content that is worthwhile except the super bosses like Antharas.
But relying on an exploit to beat the farmers to bosses is also stupid. There are many farmers who are using this exploit to beat the other raid boss farmers to the bosses. This doesn't help the server in any way it just means that the bosses are even more out of reach for real people.
Real people can't have an automated scout logged at every single raidboss spawn in game and continuously have it cycle through every spawn until it shows that a boss is up. Nor can real people stand at the GK 24hours a day waiting for the very second a boss is up and move out to kill it immediately.
Raid farmers are smarter now than they used to be. It makes them so much adena they don't use bots as obviously as they used to. This means that they are probably harder to ban as you have to trace where the adena they make goes and I'm sure they make it pretty difficult for the GM's.
Unfortunately it takes the GM's several months to ban each raid crew if at all and all it takes is one week and they are back, a few more weeks to be at their old strength. Even if the GM's were able to find them and ban them once a week the farmers would still be back a lot because they can bot up the levels so fast.
I don't know how the GM's investigate the raid farmers but they are certainly a nuisance to them and to us the players.
It doesn't help when players defend them saying things like they are entitled to raid as much as anyone. No, they aren't because they aren't here as a paying customer for a game. They are here to make themselves money which makes their bosses lots of money. Players who sell adena on the side are just as bad as farmers and they deserve the same treatment.
It is an exploit, it has always been and always will be an exploit. Even the GM's refer to it as an exploit, that's not really the issue.
It's all about whether it is bannable or not, as yet no decision has been made that anyone is aware of.
Until they make the decision an awful lot of people will be gaining a lot of things very unfairly and preventing any rule abiding real player from raiding until the GM's deal with it.
While everyone may label this as an exploit, NC has had a long time to fix this. As a result they can't just one day say it bannable retroactively. Besides a single statement at the start of the damage routine could easily fix this. Instead of deciding on a ban, just fix the code routines and that would be the end of that.
Watch the farmers do Skylancer one day, they dont run up the road to the mountain, they go straight up the side of it(using terrain real players can not climb). Do I need to point out the obvious?
i petitioned on this issue regardin boss farmers,
same ol bs answers.
il post ss of reply i got soon cos im late for work.
basically they say farming raidbosses is not illegal ingame
You know why i have so little posts, its because what we write here NEVER MATTERS, gm's couldnt give 2 craps thats the worst thing about ncsoft, the poor customer support. I mean its pretty dang obvious who the farmers are and their bot crews. Get rid of the Raid farmers and we will be happy for this exploit to go. Simple
Being you have been around this long. You should know that what you says does matter.
And that the people doing the raid bosses have every right to farm them as you do.
Attention Player: Your petition has been looked and and put in our recycle bin, We have also removed the Bug Section from our forums as we do not care about what you say. We will not help you with any technical issues in the game.
We are also aware of the bug where PEOPLE WHO DEFEND A CASTLE CANT GET OUT OF THE DOORS, WHICH WE CAUSED IN C4 introduction. ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS PUT BACK THE OTHER NPCS WHO WERE IN THERE.
BUT WE WILL NOT.
There are multipul bugs, IMO the castle one is more serious and needs addressing. Whats the point of defending when u have to break the top door to even get out of a castle.
Made over 300m in 5 days from this btw so keep it goin, beat those farmers
I wondered why there were noobs camped out at a 70+ RB. Found out who they belonged to and it was the leading chinese farmer group on TEON. We wont name names.
But I do know they dont always come to the spot as soon as he pops up. So the rest of us normal players can do the same. Camp the RB with noob players.
I wondered why there were noobs camped out at a 70+ RB. Found out who they belonged to and it was the leading chinese farmer group on TEON. We wont name names.
But I do know they dont always come to the spot as soon as he pops up. So the rest of us normal players can do the same. Camp the RB with noob players.
And will you have 24/7 coverage then? With teams ready to scramble the moment the boss arrives?
don't want to doubble post but this question deserves its own entry, IMO.
Where's NCSoft at on this issue? not a riding the fence rail answer. YES do it or NO don't do it.
I have my own theory, I think it is a NO but they cannot do anything about it at the moment without restructuring/breaking alot of other things. Bannable? no question about that - no, it's not bannable; it's been allowed for too long.
There is a new method being used that can work against and boss mob, even if they are lvl 87. I know this will be deleted if I say how, but im sure anyone can figure it out who knows a little about the game and this exploit.
People are getting Full A and S drops using this method. It literally takes about 15 seconds to kill any raid boss with 3 people. I never saw in any patch notes that 3 people were now considered a raid in this game.
Btw, this can also be done on any mob in the game, including antharas, valakaras, and baium. I dont know why this is taking so long to be addressed by NCsoft, except that they can not lable it an exploit until NCsoft Korea says it is.
This is very sad NCsoft, ev ever person knows it is an exploit, everyone wants it fixed and you sit there saying nothing about it like you dont even know what is going on. How long does it take to look at this and figure out how it is done?
Valakaras, Baium, zaken and Antharas's main damage is from specials, there is no way the exploit would even work for it.
Your own clan uses it, go have a cry more.
Just like how "Big BOom leveling was an exploit"
Just cos your class is useless you cry a river.
You know whats funny, i was the first person to figure it out on kain, how to do these raids, other people copyed me, i know at least 2 people in your clan using it.
Valakaras, Baium, zaken and Antharas's main damage is from specials, there is no way the exploit would even work for it.
Your own clan uses it, go have a cry more.
Just like how "Big BOom leveling was an exploit"
Just cos your class is useless you cry a river.
You know whats funny, i was the first person to figure it out on kain, how to do these raids, other people copyed me, i know at least 2 people in your clan using it.
Ferst, you really have no clue do you. It is possible to do on any mob is the game, no matter who they are. If you think about it, you can do any boss.
I dont care if my own clan uses this, doesnt mean I dont want it fixed. Just cause they use it, doesnt mean I think it should stay that way.
How were you the first person when it was posted by another server with a fraps? Were you this first to d/l it? You didnt start going around with a BD till after it was posted.
Dont be stupid, no reason you try and talk trash when you dont know how to do certain mobs. Just cause you do the lvl 87's raid bosses with 2 other characters, doesnt mean you cant do the top bosses in the game. Sorry you are to narrow minded to figure it out.
What level is antharas classes as, it would have to be level 71 for it to work. I always assumed he was like like 75. If so the pet cannot be paralized.
Yeah I think after the downtime it was fixed. A couple people in our clan watched some farmers try to do the VoS boss. Same observation, the boss wouldn't attack the pet after it was petrified.
Now what will they do about all the people who exploited this tirelessly for several weeks for personal gain?
Nothing. Similar to when people used the exploit to level hatchlings really fast. It was never officially declared an exploit with warnings against doing it and now the problem is fixed. That's just what I think.
Yeah .. don't forget the Grim Collecter quest bug. How about having millions of adena in prelude ? They ended up disabling that quest for what... a full chronicle ? I don't recall if anyone was reprimanded for it, but I don't think anyone was.
Oh man that was an old school exploit too. Yeah that quest was down for ages. Can you imagine A grade prices if all raids are disabled? Or other items for that matter.. haha