I'm starting to think about my future subclass. I think I narrowed it down to Sorcerer or Spellhowler so far. Now the question is. Which class has more options?
At first glance it seems SH with their many equally effective nukes, silence, slow etc.
On the other hand Sorcerer has sleep cloud, cancel and casts a bit faster (As spellhowler I'd go m.atk build anyway)
I don't want to OMGPWN everyone. I want to have fun playing the class, which for me is adaptability to many situations (PS main).
I'll be grateful for any input.
Sh got better mana management and therefore its better for pve, especially if u solo/duo a lot.
Sorc can be more suitable for groups if they willing to have sleeper.
At the end it doesn't really matter ) Just choose between human and de
Body to mind + vampiric claw ( or corpse drain, I myself prefer claw ) keeps your mana up until your buffs die. Clear mind + these things keeps it up indefinately, granted you are on /walk the whole time. This is while nuking constantly mind you.
Very strong overhit nuke ( overhit meaning you will get +25% exp each time you finish with it. Although this was rarely ever the case for melee, your over hit nuke at my level does well over 2k damage... ).
The Death Spike and CDL methods are the fastest grinding techniques in the game.
Put all these together ( and then some, these are just some personal highlights ) and you got yourself the best PVE class in the game. In pvp, they aren't ZOOMG OVERPOWERED, but they do very well if left alive ( which is hard to do... considering SHs have the lowest class/ race based def and con in the game ).
One thing you should know about SHs is to [censored] STAY AWAY FROM M ATK BUILDS. You're a SH.. you don't need M atk bonuses. Get the obligatory dyes, and go for cast speed. It won't fail you. It hasn't failed me, and I'm nearly 70 on mine.
I'd use it as opener just like sub 40... I don't like to have SP shortage and I don't really care about fast leveling.
Put all these together ( and then some, these are just some personal highlights ) and you got yourself the best PVE class in the game.
I'd have to argue that as Phantom Summoner I'm already best PvE class in the game ;)
One thing you should know about SHs is to [censored] STAY AWAY FROM M ATK BUILDS. You're a SH.. you don't need M atk bonuses. Get the obligatory dyes, and go for cast speed. It won't fail you. It hasn't failed me, and I'm nearly 70 on mine.
Could you explain how even more power can be bad? I'm used to building on my strengths instead of compensating weaknesses.
At the end it doesn't really matter ) Just choose between human and de
not in my case (subclass) I'm already DE.
P.S.
One more thing. I don't use shots. Ever. Is it possible to solo 1xhp greens without using shots?
Casting speed > matk for xping.
1. You can kill mobs faster and they usually die before they get to you.
2. Faster casting speed = reduced spell interruption
3. You can better handle "oh, -_-" situations with sleep saving yourself and party where u are the only sleeper
4. Faster B2M reuse, faster shadow spark reuse.
5. Its better for PvP.
At the moment i am using this strategy:
have +4 INT +5 WIT, i am running from mob to mob, cast claw, spark or huri if spark not ready (usually its ready), B2M, pick loot, in middle to next mob B2M. Result - perma-80%+ HP and MP making me ready to handle any PvE or at least put some fight in PvP situation.
One more thing. I don't use shots. Ever. Is it possible to solo 1xhp greens without using shots?
Wow... you are a rare breed, my friend.
Yes, it is possible, but you will obviously be mana short (takes twice as many spells to kill the mob). You can do it, but you will have more downtime.
3. You can better handle "oh, -_-" situations with sleep saving yourself and party where u are the only sleeper
True, but if I play carefully there won't be "oh -_-" situations... I somehow managed that before becoming summoner, can't be that much different at 40+
4. Faster B2M reuse, faster shadow spark reuse.
I'm the rare breed that doesn't care about leveling speed.
5. Its better for PvP.
I keep hearing that... actual testing to back this up?
Yes, it is possible, but you will obviously be mana short (takes twice as many spells to kill the mob). You can do it, but you will have more downtime.
This was my system sub 40... does it really change so drastically over 40?:
nuke - nuke (mob dead) - nuke - nuke (mob dead) - B2M - CLD - nuke - nuke (mob dead) - repeat as needed.
With shots it would be cut by half nukes... but I had no downtime since 35 at all when leveling casually (I do have downtime when I try to cut deep into GC trough 3 multi hp white mobs, but that's not leveling :P that's trying to solo a quest)
I'd use it as opener just like sub 40... I don't like to have SP shortage and I don't really care about fast leveling.
Put all these together ( and then some, these are just some personal highlights ) and you got yourself the best PVE class in the game.
I'd have to argue that as Phantom Summoner I'm already best PvE class in the game ;)
One thing you should know about SHs is to [censored] STAY AWAY FROM M ATK BUILDS. You're a SH.. you don't need M atk bonuses. Get the obligatory dyes, and go for cast speed. It won't fail you. It hasn't failed me, and I'm nearly 70 on mine.
Could you explain how even more power can be bad? I'm used to building on my strengths instead of compensating weaknesses.
At the end it doesn't really matter ) Just choose between human and de
not in my case (subclass) I'm already DE.
P.S.
One more thing. I don't use shots. Ever. Is it possible to solo 1xhp greens without using shots?
1. I lose enough xp in PvP to compensate for overhit :) Faster lvling allows me to afford dying more.
2. PvE is only path not goal. Well, at least for me :)
3. Because our weakness hurts much. We cast very slow. If you can't kill something fast it can kill(or do unnecesary damage to) you. Sure, there are occations when matk gear is necessary (when u hunting specific mobs u want to 2-shot or 1-shot but lack a little matk for it). Lvling on higher levels with no acumen pots is plain stupid.
4. Bsps is not only 2x dmg is 1/2 MP to kill a mob. You can't mantain your MP pool properly if you don't B2M and you need at least one B2M for 2 normal nukes. If you shoting green mob u will need 3-4 nukes instead of two and most likely mob will get to you and start pounding so that 3rd or 4th nuke might be interrupted and if mob has nasty specials like stun.. ouch..
1. I lose enough xp in PvP to compensate for overhit Faster lvling allows me to afford dying more.
I don't PvP much... but even if I did. look at 76+ skills cost... you need all SP you can get.
Lvling on higher levels with no acumen pots is plain stupid.
I never considered being rich as stupid <shrugs>
2. PvE is only path not goal. Well, at least for me
Can't argue this ;) but my goal is to have fun with friends.
4. Bsps is not only 2x dmg is 1/2 MP to kill a mob. You can't mantain your MP pool properly if you don't B2M and you need at least one B2M for 2 normal nukes. If you shoting green mob u will need 3-4 nukes instead of two and most likely mob will get to you and start pounding so that 3rd or 4th nuke might be interrupted and if mob has nasty specials like stun.. ouch..
That's *you* in cast speed build. have you tried it with m.atk build?
I don't see how... more cast speed = out of mana faster.
SH that can run out of MP hunting green 1hp mobs fast is ******ed
B2M is most overpowered PvE skill and you need faster casting to use it often. I like to get a lot of supplies and xp for hour or two not stopping rebuffing with my SE on-the-fly
I'd use it as opener just like sub 40... I don't like to have SP shortage and I don't really care about fast leveling.
You won't have SP problems. I never did.... and I didn't start diring since the 60s, and even then, I died like what.... five times?
I'd have to argue that as Phantom Summoner I'm already best PvE class in the game ;)
You could, but you'd be wrong.
Could you explain how even more power can be bad? I'm used to building on my strengths instead of compensating weaknesses.
You aren't compensating your weaknesses... you are complimenting your strengths. You have the highest M atk in the game... and using M atk sets doesn't help you in the slightest. All it does is take you from overkill to extreme prejudice. It serves no purpose. You will still be one shotting half hp mobs, two shotting single hp mobs, and etc. The only time it would help out is in Raids. The only time it would matter is if you have weak weapon... which in your case, shouldn't be an issue. +3 homu and devo set alone can do you good until lvl 57.... and this is unbuffed.
P.S.
One more thing. I don't use shots. Ever. Is it possible to solo 1xhp greens without using shots?
Don't go mage if you refuse to use shots. It's suicide.
I don't see how... more cast speed = out of mana faster.
More cast speed = faster body to mind.
I never considered being rich as stupid <shrugs>
There are no mobs you can 2-shot with no shots. Later you can't 2-shot some white mobs with shots in matk setup unless weapon is highly OE'd. Basically using shots is a must and in parties with no spoiler you are burning money, yet soloing you can afford shots from gold drop. I see your experience about SH is based on dark wizard. This is different now, primary source of damage is spell power (-> level).
Best gear way IMHO: karmian(if no +WIT tattoo)->demon(when +WIT tattoo)->get +INT tattoo->avadon->dark crystal robe set. Allways keep demons to use when extra matk needed. Zubey and doom sets suck. Nightmare OK if u can afford it as secondary set but demons is better, most even A-grade necros CDL with it in my server. Ye, for CDL u might need matk gear but if u can CDL some mobs with fast cast setup its safer.
Later you can't 2-shot some white mobs with shots in matk setup unless weapon is highly OE'd.
This depends on your situation. As a SH, hitting the next solves this problem if it ever happens. Using demon set in this situation works very well. However, if you have access to empower... even level 1, then this is a moot point. Outside if this, if you can find white single hp mobs, you can two shot them.
In the 60s I started out with +3 desparion staff and tallum robes ( -2 int XD ) and I still two shotted everything. Granted, I had emp 1 the whole time. Without emp, I had to use avadon set to two shot whites... and that was with the low weapon for my grade enchanted to +3.... which is kind of throws out the use for highly OE'd weapons just to grind.
As for soloing and shots... look at it this way. You will be two shotting mobs from 40 to 67, and if you're me, one shotting mobs from 67-74. What does this mean?
BSPSC = 115
BSPSB = 275
BSPSA = 290
C weapons use 3x consumption. B-A uses 1x consumption. If you do the math, you would see that it becomes gradually cheaper to use shots.... where the adena drops increase dramatically as time goes by. Where I hunt, I make 12k exp and 2k adena per two shot kill.
- They have a higher capacity for aoe. SHs get an aoe nuke and aoe poison. Sorcs get an Aoe nuke, an omni direction nuke ( blazing circle ), and group sleep.
- Faster cast speed, def, and con, while having slightly less m atk due to having -2 int, and -3 run speed.
For the MAtk vs. Casting Speed, look at it this way, Dalamarthalas. Casting Speed will increase your damage per second directly in addition to lowering the timers on most spells and reducing the chance you'll be interrupted. MAtk will increase your damage per second by a square root, which means that even huge increases stop mattering really fast.
So, basically, the benefits are...
+50% casting speed = +50% DPS, -33% interruption chance (less time casting).
+50% MAtk = +22% DPS. That's it.
Only downside with casting speed is that you also use up MP faster in some situations--but if you aren't having MP problems, then go for it!
...now, that said, I wouldn't do anything to hurt my MAtk (no -Int, for example)...but if you can pick one or the other, Casting Speed is almost always the better choice.
Aaaanyway, if you're looking at pure entertainment value, I'd probably say Sorcerer simply because it's not a DE option. It'll be a change from both your PS and your DE-Wizard days.
Biggest plus over SH and PvE funfactor is Sleep Cloud. You can solo group-mobs, always exciting.
You cast faster than SH and you have more Con/CP. Sorcs do very well in PvE and PvP, but are not Uber. I am perfectly happy with my char and would not trade it against any other. You have good castspeed and high matk, whatever route you will take. Good balanced middle between the other nukers here. You have an emergency spell (Aura flare) in PvE, you have decay, poison cloud, slow...
But there are some drawbacks as well, since C4 hates Sorcs:
- No more Minibosses, I loved to solo them with sleep cloud in C3
- Cancel "adjusted" (would not say nerfed)
- Auraflare in PvP no longer existent, must use it's small brother Auro Bolt now
- your AOE Skills lost importance due to 20 mobs limit
- you really have only ONE nuke after 2nd class change (good thing about that: you'll not have problems to get all important skills in your hotbar)
The nice thing C4 did to us:
- nice new animation of Prominence ;)
These are the things I miss/envy SH for:
- Silence (one-shot kill in PvP against other casters, if it lands) / OMG overpowered NERF NERF :p
- better mana management due to higher body to mind (big advantage in PvE) / Our BTM becomes worthless in higher lvls.
- CDL (exciting Spell, wish I had it)
However, as you are a DE, I would take sorc over SH. It's nice to see a DE cast Prominence.
On a sidenote:
Why dont you consider going Necro (as everybody does these days)? Not because they pwn (you say you dont pvp much), but they really have a very interesting Skill-set, many different nukes, silence, mass slow, summons (maybe you don't want any more summons with your sub? ;) ) Interesting choice for sure.
Why dont you consider going Necro (as everybody does these days)? Not because they pwn (you say you dont pvp much), but they really have a very interesting Skill-set, many different nukes, silence, mass slow, summons (maybe you don't want any more summons with your sub? ) Interesting choice for sure.
sucks that they are so overpowered and will prolly be nerfed
definately one of the funnest classes to play
BTW the nerf will come when i sub one you watch :P
Spellhowler is OK. My boyfriend plays spellhowler, and I had similar question ... I want to level nuking box, choose SH or Sorc? (did not want necro, they do not have cheap non-dark attack nukes and no overhits, plus it's FOTM) I choose SH. They have better mana management and they have overhit skill.
Just go with standard +4wit +4int -8 men +4con -4 str(*) Demon set for PVE and some casting speed set for pvp. Wisely choose what to kill and do not worry about shots - I can guarantee you you will be counting like "When I use one shot I loose 308a, but earn 600a atop of that" ... playing nuker can be very economic :) That's why Demon set ... +4 INT has some magic in 2-shotting Doom knights without empower when they are pink/yellow to you.
That's just my suggestion for one build, keep your mind opened for other suggestions, they are not bad either.
Oh, and "level fast and be low on SP with overhits" style ... no, that's not the case once you get Curse Death Link spell ... at 70 you may be able to make 2 level5 clans in a row and still learn all your skills :D
Hmmm... for some reason I thought I posted in this thread at some point but I don't see it.
What Crawlerin says about shots is true. I try to hunt mobs that I can kill with 2 hits. Each A grade shot costs from 350 to 375 (380 on a bad day) each. But I get anwhere from 1200 to 2900 (once got in the early 3100's) adena drops.
Not bad at all. And since I usually use my dwarf to make extra money I think nothing of porting from our Giran Clan Hall allllllll the way up to Forest of the dead to hunt. I pretty much break even doing that... a small profit really. And like I said there is the "dirty dwarf money".