I don't really want this to turn into flaming or anything. It seems like the subclass system, which was mostly designed to lengthen the playtime of players, has somewhat ruined lineage 2. I say somewhat because I know not everyone will feel this way.
What subclassing has accomplished is a very easy way for any clan to become whatever class is "fotm". Some people do subclass because they genuinely wanted to make a new class like a dark elven destroyer, or whatever you can imagine. But for the most part what we have is an easy outlet for all the people in a specific clan to suddenly "reroll" into the new fotm without having to make new characters nor make room in their clan. Now instead of a wide variety of classes, many people in specific clans have deleted their old subclass and turned into necromancers. It won't be long before the servers are not only primarily ranged/support classes (which they already are), but a great deal of those will be necros.
You might say this is no different from just making a new character to reroll into a necro, or whatever fotm exists at the time. This is partially or even largely true. But think about it for a moment. Many players try to only stick with one character and refuse to reroll. However, subclassing has created an outlet to allow these stubborn people to suddenly have to choose a class to reroll in order to advance their class and eventually try to become noblesse or hero. Now they are forced to create a class that will get their main up to that point as fast as possible. Nine times out of ten what they will choose is the current fotm because it levels well in addition to pvping well. Eventually they realize the true effectiveness of their necro/fotm sub and they won't normally pvp (or even play) on their main class anymore because "it sucks".
So what has the subclass system accomplished? A way for most of the servers to be primarily comprised of "fotm" rerolls. As said already, this is because even people who would not normally reroll are forced to in order to advance their main class. Not everyone is like this, but the "problem", as I see it, is extremely widespread across the server I play on.
It is like that on all servers, what I hate the most is the nolesse TP system, they really should of made that for 3rd classes.
They are makeing PvP too easy for alot of the high lvl toons.
Necro is so strong cause of TP, i bet C5 they will remove TP from summoners and necros. that is about the most they could do that would ballance and not neirf the class all together.
Actually, the 3rd class was made because there was a player consituency who didn't like the idea of having to do noblesse only to then have to go hero. So NC created the 3rd class so that players would be able to further their characters without having to do the noblesse route.
Actually, the 3rd class was made because there was a player consituency who didn't like the idea of having to do noblesse only to then have to go hero. So NC created the 3rd class so that players would be able to further their characters without having to do the noblesse route.
That's partially true, although it isn't clear if it was actually intended the way you say it is. In any case levels 76-78 are only a few levels and despite the grind, they only take 1-2 months of dedicated leveling to get through. If you are level 75, you are a dedicated leveler and fully capable of accomplishing that quickly if you truly want to. Also, the design still pretty much forces characters to do subclass in order to get some of the important advantages, in particular hero but also the teleports...and of course, bragging rights.
But that is conceptual talk; the reality is that almost all people do subclass for some reason or other and most subclasses are some form of fotm; as of right now it is commonly necro.
I may not have expressed what I consider to be the real problem though. Maybe my way of thinking is just too out of date but in my eyes, the constant resubbing of ranged classes has caused a huge issue with pvp in this game. Pvp is now fought almost strictly with ranged characters and their support. Subclassing has contributed to the ever dwindling population of melee characters participating in pvp. It is not the direct cause of this, but it contributes nevertheless.
Actually, the 3rd class was made because there was a player consituency who didn't like the idea of having to do noblesse only to then have to go hero. So NC created the 3rd class so that players would be able to further their characters without having to do the noblesse route.
That's partially true, although it isn't clear if it was actually intended the way you say it is. In any case levels 76-78 are only a few levels and despite the grind, they only take 1-2 months of dedicated leveling to get through. If you are level 75, you are a dedicated leveler and fully capable of accomplishing that quickly if you truly want to. Also, the design still pretty much forces characters to do subclass in order to get some of the important advantages, in particular hero but also the teleports...and of course, bragging rights.
But that is conceptual talk; the reality is that almost all people do subclass for some reason or other and most subclasses are some form of fotm; as of right now it is commonly necro.
I may not have expressed what I consider to be the real problem though. Maybe my way of thinking is just too out of date but in my eyes, the constant resubbing of ranged classes has caused a huge issue with pvp in this game. Pvp is now fought almost strictly with ranged characters and their support. Subclassing has contributed to the ever dwindling population of melee characters participating in pvp. It is not the direct cause of this, but it contributes nevertheless.
A while ago Center (I think i was center0 published the notes of a korean "get together" and that was essentiall what was said.
Besides... lvl 76-78 isn't about being higher lvl but more (it seems) about getting skill points to enchant your skills) If you look at the new skills for 76+ there are only a few of them.
enchanting kinda sucks now. it could turn the balance of a hero competition but just that.
and I agree w/ the OP.. I have seen quite a bit ppl who deleted their sub just to roll a necro.
And necro is not just powerful because of TP but minions hit hard, nukes hit hard, anchor (no comment), silence and mass slow.
You forgot curse gloom, which essentially acts as a universal Surrender to __element__. :)
I see what you're saying sovrath. They definitely did seem to make the third class as an alternative to leveling a subclass among other things. It doesn't really last though; most skills aren't even worth enchanting and in general the boosts you get past level 1 seem small. It really did nothing as far as I see to curve the ever increasing turnover of normal classes into fotm rerolls. D:
If I ever get to 75, I am definitely trying to max out either my merrow or my mirage (not sure which I'd prefer to push for PvP), since that means extra levels. Then again, I won't. ;)
I disagree, not all people do that with their subclasses. Our alliance has many who subclass as needed classes. For example our first generation of Warcryers got 75, so naturally we need mroe buffers and we got people subbing WCs. We also have a few more subbing SwS which is obviously essential now that there are so many enemy nukers.
As every day passes, less and less melee DDs are played. The only people left playng them either don't care about PVP, or do so they can be a hero with melee DD main. Most other DDs are ranged DD classes.
// the constant resubbing of ranged classes has caused a huge issue with pvp in this game. Pvp is now fought almost strictly with ranged characters and their support.
That's not the fault of the subclass feature though, that's the ridicoulus overpowering of ranged classes, or the silly nerfing of melee, however you like to see it.
I doubt that people would reroll to the fotm classes if NCSoft didn't keep on doing the same mistake over and over again and making the fotm so extreme. It's nice that a class gets boosts now and then. So far they ended up overpowering one class each chronicle so much though that everyone just rerolled to it.
So now they don't need to reroll but can sub it.
Subclasses are fine... fotm classes aren't. =/
I don't think you quite understood what I was saying. I'll repeat the general idea to you:
Many people will absolutely not switch to a reroll given the choice. They've already made their character and they don't want to suffer through the noob levels just to reroll a better character. For these people, what does subclassing do? It forces you to reroll in order to advance your main. Yeah you could just level to 78 and only exp to enchant your skills, totally ignoring subclassing, noblesse, hero etc but let's be reasonable. Every single person I've met who has reached 75 has subclassed when they got the chance. Most of those who subbed have subbed one of the ranged classes. When I ask them why, the response is something akin to "because they own". In the end, if you want to get to the final endgame content, you have to sub at least once.
What this means is that the people who wouldn't have rerolled into a fotm suddenly do have to make a choice of what they want to reroll in order to get farther in the game. This eventually leads to even those who wouldn't have ever thought of being a fotm into turning fotm. Thus, subclassing is not the cause but it does contribute to the problem. Rather than making another whine thread about ranged classes I thought I would try to shed new light on the subject that, as far as I have seen, hasn't been presented well enough.
This is not the only problem I mentioned, but it was the key one and you seemed to not have understood it.