what are those people at NCsoft thinking?? Blessed SpS = 4x dmg couples with a magic crit 4x dmg = 16x dmg, we're talking about 5k dmg here against good mdef, lol that's 1 hit for some fighter classes.....
Sry but you ARE wrong.Mages get x2 DMG from bsps.So its 1k dmg normal on a good m.def so its 4k dmg on a crit.When you got 15k HP+ its not that much right?
its not that formula...
Blessed SPS increases your M attack....
So its (M attack * 4)^0.5*spell power*some constant/(M def).
This equals 2*((M attack)^0.5)*spell power*some constant/(M def)
Add in the *4 for a crit and you got 8x damage.
You forgot to put the 4x M attack from the blessed under the square root sign.
Ok im a nuker (Sorc) so i make WITH bsps 1577 dmg on a mob.Without bsps on the same mob i get 788 dmg.Bsps IS x2 dmg sry.And magic crits without buffs is once in a lifetime :p You cant count on magic crits in a fight.
Nice formulas, but none of them was approved by official forces.
Face the facts, BSpS do not quadruple the damage you do, they quadruple the MAtk, which results in doupled damage. And since a crit does not multiply your damage with 8, you cannot come out at x16.
Mage crits are still awesome, but they are also still pretty rare, even with full crit-buffs.
>>Nice formulas, but none of them was approved by official forces.
They are. (the one I listed mainly... I am not sure if the multiplier 91 is not 89, though)
Nice formulas, but none of them was approved by official forces.
Face the facts, BSpS do not quadruple the damage you do, they quadruple the MAtk, which results in doupled damage. And since a crit does not multiply your damage with 8, you cannot come out at x16.
Mage crits are still awesome, but they are also still pretty rare, even with full crit-buffs.
Well i think you cant.An HP based tyrant (or a destro?i always mistake these two orcs :confused:) got 19k HP+CP as i read here.Thats the char with most HP ingame i take it.
A nuker buffed would make 1.5k dmg on a good mdef every 1 sec.You can calculate the rest no?Atleast this is what ppl right here.(i dont agree with them since such extreme numbers are hard to make and mostly made by lvl 75 chars with too much adena on their hands :p)
Oh and the nukes that have 140 power (it makes 20% more dmg than the standard) and lowers your ressist (another 30% dmg) CAN be quite ugly<.<
Magic Crits are rare, but when they come, they come with a bang.
When my SH was lvl 32 or so, wearing Knowledge(no gloves) and Goat Head Staff, I did a crit for 6.5k on a green mob. I was Unbuffed, but used Dbsps. My SH is now 45, and since then, I think I've only crited 1 more time for 4k+, and at 45 she has a much nicer gear than at 32. ;)
...now that bring us back to the original question: What were the people at NCsoft thinking???
Well i think you cant.An HP based tyrant (or a destro?i always mistake these two orcs :confused:) got 19k HP+CP as i read here.Thats the char with most HP ingame i take it.
A nuker buffed would make 1.5k dmg on a good mdef every 1 sec.You can calculate the rest no?Atleast this is what ppl right here.(i dont agree with them since such extreme numbers are hard to make and mostly made by lvl 75 chars with too much adena on their hands :p)
Oh and the nukes that have 140 power (it makes 20% more dmg than the standard) and lowers your ressist (another 30% dmg) CAN be quite ugly<.<
They added riposte stance after lvl 75 to some classes (not to mention the Wisdom skill ALL classes get after 75).So i think its not a bad nightmare (only a normal one).
riposte stance wont help much against mages...they give us wisdom to offset sleep enchantment...in their heads they only think about mages mages mages and mages....bastids!!!
One of the funniest things I saw recently was a clannie BH (60+) who went red on some raid boss farmer and then, still fully equipped, asked another clannie (sps) "can you wash me?" Sps: "ok", solar flare, BANG magic crit, dead :)
Like killing an annoying insect with a newspaper :)
lol noob, ripo stance occasionally reflects debuffs it doesnt help vs magic crits. Also the chance of deflection is about 1/5.
As for orcs haveing 20khp, that only happens when they go +8 con to have a maximum of CON55. Do you know what that does to their str and dex? It nerfs it to hell, they wont even catch up to the mage and "if" they do, dmg will be pitifull.
Magic crits are rare when solo'ing yes, but mage parties of 5-6 mages are way to strong, at least one of them is going to crit when they all send in those balls of flameing death. Chuck in the new dance and wild magic with +tat's and they come in more often then you think.
Personally ive been magic crit'd twice in a row by the same mage, obviously i died, the sad thing was he was 13 levels lower then me, talk about unlucky number. 2 Hit killed by a noob mage, i almost cried.
Didn't you get the memo? "Almost as much as a light user" is super pitiful defense, that balances their attack! And of course mages shouldn't die when you close in on them either, since that's just unfair not to have a chance...
Meh we should all just migrate to the Korean servers, the world must be perfectly alright there. :p Whatever it is they do different, somehow it must justify more and more mage boosts.
So if you return sleep/root its bad?Wisdom counters sleep also.Stanimir said its 8% fully buffed-1/12.
If i get 2 magic crits in pvp in a row ill go in RL to get a lotto ticket!
They should make the chance 2x and the dmg 2x.AS it is now you cant depend on those crits.
Actually im the slowest char ingame :( So i think any char can catch me and when they got 20k HP its no problem to drop me in a few swings no?Btw if you say DC set again you better think about it first(the speed bonus)-do you have problems with the nuker classes as a whole OR you got problems with the DC set?
A Tyrant at 75, wearing Doom Heavy, having +5 con, health SA fists, BtB, Ogre and Song of Vitality will have near 20k HP. If he has that(requires a high lvl prophet and SwS too for those stats) you sure as hell have DC set on you. And the damage he will deal will be _LOW_ as he has to lower either his str(bye bye pattk) or dex(bye bye runspeed, evasion, accuracy, attack speed, crit rate). Not to mention that orcs have 26 dex to start with so they're really slow(tyrant has wolf and rabbit totems to compensate a little, but a destroyer has nothing).
I've been magic critted twice in a row, back in good ol' C3. I've been magic critted _5_ times in 1 siege in C4. They're not so rare anymore, geez. In a exp party the **** nukers pulled several crits during a few hours of grinding, without the new dances or WM.
They should _REMOVE_ magic crits from this game as they unbalance pvp even more when they happen. Dark vortex is bad enough already, I dont even want to see how much it crits me for when it hits me for nearly 3k already. And 4-5k for a magic crit is low dmg ppl, thats something Aura Flare did lol.
Hmm you didnt get what i said.I think DC set is too powerfull and should be nerfed.So try to imagine a fight with weaker DC set than now plz.
How much time you will need to pass by 3k HP (1.7k? CP) when the nuker got 700 P def?
26 DEX?Too bad since i got 21!
BUT wait since when can we fighters one hit the mages when we can get close to them??? Oh and THAT IF WE CAN EVEN GET CLOSE TO THEM MAGES. and not to mention we probably have a few hundred hp left if we could ever manage to get close to them mages.
Didn't you get the memo? "Almost as much as a light user" is super pitiful defense, that balances their attack! And of course mages shouldn't die when you close in on them either, since that's just unfair not to have a chance...
sleep/root are not debuffs. so riposte stance doesnt work on them. Sure wisdom can help abit here and there until all the mages enchant their sleeping skills.
20k hp?? sure buddy, but that's witch full buffs from TWO other classes, oh and did I mention how ****ty our dmg would be if we go all CON?? we probably hit you for 100 dmg pet hit with SS's lol , and then what happen?? SLEEP FTW!!!!
So if you return sleep/root its bad?Wisdom counters sleep also.Stanimir said its 8% fully buffed-1/12.
If i get 2 magic crits in pvp in a row ill go in RL to get a lotto ticket!
They should make the chance 2x and the dmg 2x.AS it is now you cant depend on those crits.
Actually im the slowest char ingame :( So i think any char can catch me and when they got 20k HP its no problem to drop me in a few swings no?Btw if you say DC set again you better think about it first(the speed bonus)-do you have problems with the nuker classes as a whole OR you got problems with the DC set?
Hmm 335 base p def of DC set (including the +8% from the set bonus).Nightmare light got 391 base p def.After that comes the mastery (light gets more).Also you got +70% chance to ressist sleep/hold on top of wisdom skill.Also you get 4% M def bonus on top of the now unsealed A grade jewels (more m def).100 dmg?yeah riiight.More like 200-300 and 600 on a crit which is every 3rd hit.And with the insane attack speed you get you can say goodbye to that nuker.
Do you ppl know how much a nuker gets from enchanting his main nuke?1 power more.He has 108 power so a +1 skill means 109 power.Thats nice eh?So i dont think sleep will get alot stronger than this.
And i meant that they should up the chance on crits with 50% and LOWER the dmg on magic crits with 50%!
well if we go for that 200 dmg then our hp wouldnt be at 20k would it and if we use nightmare light set (which costs two arms and a leg) and we even have less CON. And why are we talking about fighter's pdef?? Mdef?? you can have 4k mdef and Sleep still land. This has been tested. HOW?? havent you heard of Bsps?? Sure it might not land the first time but it will land, and I bet you know how fast you can crank those Sleep out with Bsps.
SAY NO to magic crits, I think magic crit is a BULLSHAT idea, whoever came up with this idea should be put into the toilet ,head-first, and flushed away!
BTW when you enchant Sleeping skills it increases chance of sleeping by a certain % NOT power.
And enchanting your main nuke from 108 to 109 yields an increment of 15 dmg (with bsps) which dont probably seem too much, but of course it doesnt seem too much compared to your 1.5k dmg base! You know what price do we fighters pay to get such an increase in our dmg output???
Hmm 335 base p def of DC set (including the +8% from the set bonus).Nightmare light got 391 base p def.After that comes the mastery (light gets more).Also you got +70% chance to ressist sleep/hold on top of wisdom skill.Also you get 4% M def bonus on top of the now unsealed A grade jewels (more m def).100 dmg?yeah riiight.More like 200-300 and 600 on a crit which is every 3rd hit.And with the insane attack speed you get you can say goodbye to that nuker.
Do you ppl know how much a nuker gets from enchanting his main nuke?1 power more.He has 108 power so a +1 skill means 109 power.Thats nice eh?So i dont think sleep will get alot stronger than this.
And i meant that they should up the chance on crits with 50% and LOWER the dmg on magic crits with 50%!
I used the power to point out the % of increase while enchanting!Its not even 1% increase ****it!
Why dont you erase the archers crits too eh?They are too powerfull too!
Someone said mages get almost the same P.def as light armor chars-this is why i posted it.
Nightmare costs alot?More than DC?
Ever heard of spell interruption?It sure is nasty for that nuke/sleep you try to pull off when someone hits you every second for 300 dmg(double on crits).This is even without the specific skills fighters get.
I can tell you that STUN is a mage killer (spell interrupted and a few seconds you stand there taking the freaking dmg-much worse than ANY sleep).
Any increment to an already overpowered skill is too much! Sure archers they do alot of dmg to mages and the same from mages too them OR more! Archers may have abit higher HP but guess what their attack is slower and you can still sleep them (OMG do i have to tell you how to play your mage??) STUN? You can get that dmn majestic set the same way you told us to get nightmare set .
Oh please at higher lvls interrupting a mage is about as rare as having magic crit!
Let me conclude this, a good mage will never lose to a good fighter at the same lvl.
And to answer your question DC cost little bit more than NM set. but not by much say on lionnaDC helms are on sale at 100mil and NM are at about 95
I used the power to point out the % of increase while enchanting!Its not even 1% increase ****it!
Why dont you erase the archers crits too eh?They are too powerfull too!
Someone said mages get almost the same P.def as light armor chars-this is why i posted it.
Nightmare costs alot?More than DC?
Ever heard of spell interruption?It sure is nasty for that nuke/sleep you try to pull off when someone hits you every second for 300 dmg(double on crits).This is even without the specific skills fighters get.
I can tell you that STUN is a mage killer (spell interrupted and a few seconds you stand there taking the freaking dmg-much worse than ANY sleep).
>>...And magic crits without buffs is once in a lifetime
or around 7.5% w/ +WIT/DC/WM/Dance...
----
GG
Wait until you see Dance of Siren in action. Every volley from our mage group generates at least one crit in PVP, and the damage is unbelievable, usually over 6k dmg against other L75+ characters. How balanced is that? lol
A Tyrant at 75, wearing Doom Heavy, having +5 con, health SA fists, BtB, Ogre and Song of Vitality will have near 20k HP. If he has that(requires a high lvl prophet and SwS too for those stats) you sure as hell have DC set on you. And the damage he will deal will be _LOW_ as he has to lower either his str(bye bye pattk) or dex(bye bye runspeed, evasion, accuracy, attack speed, crit rate). Not to mention that orcs have 26 dex to start with so they're really slow(tyrant has wolf and rabbit totems to compensate a little, but a destroyer has nothing).
I've been magic critted twice in a row, back in good ol' C3. I've been magic critted _5_ times in 1 siege in C4. They're not so rare anymore, geez. In a exp party the **** nukers pulled several crits during a few hours of grinding, without the new dances or WM.
They should _REMOVE_ magic crits from this game as they unbalance pvp even more when they happen. Dark vortex is bad enough already, I dont even want to see how much it crits me for when it hits me for nearly 3k already. And 4-5k for a magic crit is low dmg ppl, thats something Aura Flare did lol.
You forgot to mention the Tyrant using Ogre will be moving like a snail and couldn't catch a rooted mage before getting killed. 20k HP is nothing if attacked properly. Even a simple gloom or surrender followed by some nukes means that Tyrant is dead in 4 seconds. Throw a cancel in there first and he's a goner in 1 second.
Price is diff on another server.OMG did i ask you how to play my mage?Maj set means-no insane cast speed and no 8% p.def bonus.
You want to tell me mages do more dmg to archers than vice versa?Keep dreaming!Archers are made to fight mages lol.
An archer with nightmare and wisdom skills is not gonna be slept at all pfft.There is 1! skill in this game that says bb to sleep-that is mental shield.Yeah i know its a buff but still you got alot of options to counter sleep.
These nuker vs melee topics are so boring.Its the same old story over and over and over again.
If you think mages are so overpowered make one!
Oh i just visited Aden on Teon.A guy is selling Nightmare light for 13m.Another one is selling DC robe for 50m (it is overpriced but i have never seen DC robe for less than 40m)
You dont know much about mages do you? Just read the post made by the guy above, i am tired of arguing.
And why do i choose not to make a mage? But wait a minute I do have a mage. But why dont I play him you asked? Just simply because I dont like to take cheap wins.
Price is diff on another server.OMG did i ask you how to play my mage?Maj set means-no insane cast speed and no 8% p.def bonus.
You want to tell me mages do more dmg to archers than vice versa?Keep dreaming!Archers are made to fight mages lol.
An archer with nightmare and wisdom skills is not gonna be slept at all pfft.There is 1! skill in this game that says bb to sleep-that is mental shield.Yeah i know its a buff but still you got alot of options to counter sleep.
These nuker vs melee topics are so boring.Its the same old story over and over and over again.
If you think mages are so overpowered make one!
lol?All those ppl whining about nerfing mages are funny.One of them didnt even know Sorcs dont get over hit spell.Why dont YOU look up my skill tree first then come and tell me i dont know anything about my class?
And you dont have to quote everything i say geez.
Sry but you ARE wrong.Mages get x2 DMG from bsps.So its 1k dmg normal on a good m.def so its 4k dmg on a crit.When you got 15k HP+ its not that much right?
15k health is cool. Which game is that. I play L2.
Last night I was on my 72 WS and got jumped. I was hit for almost 2300 damage each attack, by light vortex. I have A jewelry. Got hit 3 times plus a mormal spell for about 680 damage. It happened so fast I barely had time to bsoe, with only 500 health left.
So on a crit that would be 2300 x 8 = 18,400 damage.
Since magic crits came out, I've done a total of (insert drum roll here) one magic crit to another player, and it failed doing a whopping 4 dmg. Counting on a magic crit in PVP is like counting on a full drop. You might get lucky and get a couple in a row, but probably not. Even with Wild Magic 2, I'll only get 2-3 magic crits per buff set. The crit damage from melee classes during the same time will add up to a lot more than the damage from my magic crits.
How can ppl like you tell me nukers are unbalanced?
x8 dmg?Are you freaking kidding me?A magic crit is x4!
Now i noticed that dwarfs got the best M.def from all the melee classes thx for sharing this info.
You got jumped by an S grader!Light vortex is lvl 75+ skill!That guy is a milion years ahead of you!The damage nukers make come mostly from skills!A lvl 74 nuke got 108 power.Light vortex got 139?Not to mention it surrenders you making another 30% more dmg.Maybe he had arcane skill activated too since he jumped you.
Not to mention you are fighting the best pvp nuker from the 3.With the fastest cast rate of all!
How can ppl like you tell me nukers are unbalanced?
x8 dmg?Are you freaking kidding me?A magic crit is x4!
Now i noticed that dwarfs got the best M.def from all the melee classes thx for sharing this info.
You got jumped by an S grader!Light vortex is lvl 75+ skill!That guy is a milion years ahead of you!The damage nukers make come mostly from skills!A lvl 74 nuke got 108 power.Light vortex got 139?Not to mention it surrenders you making another 30% more dmg.Maybe he had arcane skill activated too since he jumped you.
Not to mention you are fighting the best pvp nuker from the 3.With the fastest cast rate of all!
I dont believe I ever used the term unbalanced, and someone else said a crit was 8x, I was just using his number. However, a 4x crit would kill my WS.
I imagine my mdef is about average for a melee. With no buffs (my usual condition when soloing) it is 607. I have all A grade, only the necklace is unsealed and at +2. Is this high for a level 72? Probably not.
i am sorry but what does overhit have anything to do with this???
And to the guy who say magic crit doesnt have any factor in pvp, you sir, are the noob yourself. With full buff I crit at least 1 per big pvp fight and usually result in an instant death, if not just add 1 or 2 more shots and people are dead.
Not to mention the number of mages we have on the server, and let's say about 10% of them crit each day in pvp fights that's how many deaths?? And how are you an experienced mage player complaining about archers? Sure they are strong, BUT if you play your mages right you should AT LEAST have a 50% chance of killing GOOD archers. Oh may be you're right mages dont even need magic crit to kill anyone.
lol?All those ppl whining about nerfing mages are funny.One of them didnt even know Sorcs dont get over hit spell.Why dont YOU look up my skill tree first then come and tell me i dont know anything about my class?
And you dont have to quote everything i say geez.
Lol?You are telling me over hit nukes DONT have ALOT more power than regular nukes?AND they dont have alignment?Sry can quite understand that.
To the dwarf getting ganked-mate you got 617 M.def when you want to survive a Mystic muse spamming non stop nukes at you with the best cast speed ingame prolly fully buffed?Look at 3rd class skills for nukers.A lvl 76 nuker is MUCH more powerfull than lower than that.Reason is that most magic dmg comes from POWER.And pls see that light vortex has 139 power (OMG 21 MORE than normal lvl 74 nukes!) and it casts surrender to light when first cast (each next light vortex does 30% more dmg i think-not sure might be more).
And if he had arcane buff on him.....well you get the picture.
oh by the way, punch of doom lv 3 has the power of 9132 and with ss and at 1k based pattack a tyrant can do about 1.2dmg which is less than your 109 pwer spells with bsps, and you think 27% diffence in spell power is nothing???
Ok ill explain for you then.
There are 3 nukers-Spellhowler,Spellsinger and Sorcerer.
Spellhowler get an over hit nuke with dark alignment(strong vs weak to dark attack mobs).On lvl 74 SH gets a "normal" nuke with 108 power and the overhit nuke with 135 power.Do you notice anything?
The Spellsinger gets an over hit nuke with light alignment (strong vs light weak mobs).On lvl 74 SpS gets a "normal" nuke (water element) that has 108 power and an over hit nuke with dark element with 135 power.Noticing the thrend?
Now Sorcerer DOESNT get an over hit nuke.This means SpS and SH get a 20% bonus dmg and alignment nuke.
Btw the over hit nuke is first taken at lvl 25 and each skill lvl afterwards.
>>and it casts surrender to light when first cast (each next light vortex does 30% more dmg i think-not sure might be more).
This is wrong. It surrenders BEFORE you rcv the dmg. The debuff (surrender) may NOT last enough for a second vortex. All sacred SpS (mystic muse) attack however take surrened into consideration.
Light vortex completely sucks donkey balls compared to dark vortex. Dark vortex: surrenders, hits very hard (and drains benefit too, Death Spike too) and drains in the same time.
If dark vortex lands (the surrender part) any melee is just screwed...
Also 21MORE oMG--> results in VERY slow casting speed compared to the main nukes. And Shadow flare is 135 power for example. Mind you again it's slow casting (cool down incl). It's not main nuke in any way. It's excellent opener thanks to ranged part. But that's all.
----
Comparing DC (low A grade) to NM (high a grade) is almost not right. NM light is mostly PvP armor; it lacks the bonuses of DC light. While nukers have it PvE and PvP the same: DC.
----
I dont want to discuss any more: magic crits are 8x normal nuke. Magic crits are VERY far from rare now (esp +WIT setup). The ones who claim no crits (not seen) in PvP: dont be such a *carebear* and PvP more (just got one crit on a bot w/ my farming dark wizzard)
You can switch between them!Unlike the Sorc that has 1! nuke only right?
Not to mention when you are a SpS with that cast speed its very fast cast too.
77 you get another (fire vortex-- not sure if overhits [dark/wind didn't] but using it for overhit won't be smart, unless you get crit in the 1st place).
Yes, sorc is kinda screwed. SH has it easy w/ 3 main nukes, one overhit. Then dark voretex, then wind vortext.
But you have AF, cancel and slow (no buffs against slow).
Edit: 4 main nukes (if you count CDL.. which does insane dmg w/ dark vortex combo, needs b2m after dark vortex, CDL+Dark Vortex (+gloom+zerk) complete own RBs)
ok and got a bad formula, yeah why dont you point me to a single link that has official formulas for dmg?? And did you see the guy comment thinking hold/sleep are debuffs?? And you calling that knowing much about mages??? Please..
and what's wrong with me seeing the unblance among my classes?
More that the 16x comment was completely wrong. You're calling others ignorant when the subject line to the thread you created has false information.
Every1 nows Lis knows jack about pvp ignore him, i think hes timecops long lost twin or something.
FACT= Mages can kill any one in 3 hits to a max of 10. (1-2 hits with crits)
FACT= Mages have insane cast speed, and can spam nuke and sleep instantly without re-use timer.
FACT= Mage have around 900 atack range
FACT= Melee can kill a mage in 10-30 hits.
FACT= Melee have a very long re-use timer of skills, up to 45 seconds for the strongest moves.
FACT= Melee have to be close, point blank, to hit a nuker
FACT= All Nukers get a slow Skill and not all melees do.
FACT= Mage cast speed is faster then archer attack speed (nuke, sleep rinse repeat, dead archer)
Im sure theres 'more' facts but i most likely forgot them.
Mage owns melee, do i have a problem with that? not really, i guess thats the way the game is intended. What i do have a problem with is when people state melees stand a chance against nukers, they dont, unless they have a zerg to take it out.
I believe overhits are only for the extra exp not extra power. Sure it helps a bit in PvE but not by a big margin. My main concern is on PvP tho.
Ok ill explain for you then.
There are 3 nukers-Spellhowler,Spellsinger and Sorcerer.
Spellhowler get an over hit nuke with dark alignment(strong vs weak to dark attack mobs).On lvl 74 SH gets a "normal" nuke with 108 power and the overhit nuke with 135 power.Do you notice anything?
The Spellsinger gets an over hit nuke with light alignment (strong vs light weak mobs).On lvl 74 SpS gets a "normal" nuke (water element) that has 108 power and an over hit nuke with dark element with 135 power.Noticing the thrend?
Now Sorcerer DOESNT get an over hit nuke.This means SpS and SH get a 20% bonus dmg and alignment nuke.
Btw the over hit nuke is first taken at lvl 25 and each skill lvl afterwards.
Comparing me to timecop is an insult.
We are talking right now how can a lvl 76+ nuker can kill a lvl 72 dwarf and the diff between normal and overhit nukes.
You are nothing but a n00b as i see it :/ Really sad that.
And non magic skills have another dmg formula.A dagger special can make 2k dmg on a nuker IF it lands.
ok and got a bad formula, yeah why dont you point me to a single link that has official formulas for dmg??
That's unnecessary since even a very casual test will show you that base damage for a nuke is:
MAtk^0.5 * Power * (A Constant)
...and Blessed Spiritshots double the damage, not quadruple it (casting a single spell with a BSpS, ever, would be enough to prove that point).
A very slightly more in-depth test would show that Blessed Spiritshots affect the MAtk part of that equation--see how much the shots affect heals?
Thus, we have a BSpS attack spell using the formula:
(MAtk*4)^0.5 * Power * (A Constant)
...which is functionally the same as:
2*(MAtk)^0.5 * Power * (A Constant)
...given that is 100% accurate in determining damage trends, it'd be silly to pretend it's wrong.
okay? did you just shoot at your own foot?? I dont know who timecop is but may be I should take SPS's advice....
Comparing me to timecop is an insult.
We are talking right now how can a lvl 76+ nuker can kill a lvl 72 dwarf and the diff between normal and overhit nukes.
You are nothing but a n00b as i see it :/ Really sad that.
And non magic skills have another dmg formula.A dagger special can make 2k dmg on a nuker IF it lands.
The noob part is for SPS not you.Oh and did you EVER had a magic crit in your life?Just follow me here.
Normal dmg around 750--->with bsps 1500---->on a crit 6k.So why the hell do i need a formula to figure this out?
And about the 8x dmg on crit.I take nuke+bsps as "normal" since the dwarf said he got nuked 2k dmg each.So its with bsps.Also i dont think there is a nuker at 60+ that doesnt use bsps ;/
Also spell power is not square rooted like matk.Its aplied directly to your dmg.I sure see how a 20% increase in spell power can give you enough dmg.
Magic crits are not so freakin rare zomg. My baby human mystic gets 1 every 20mins on TI, he has crap WIT and not even buffed! Completly tat up mages with the right buff set up actually can crit every few mins. You claim relying on a magic crit for pvp is not a good idea (not that you even need magic crits), but for daggers they have to, they must rely completly on their gimp specials to land and the rate is around 50%. Thats sad!
Glad that you dropped the insults-after all we dont want this thread locked right?Once every 20 minutes?You are lucky<.<
You said it yourself-how many nukes we need to kill a char?
The chance one of those to crit is how much?
Btw as ive read it dagger specials have chance as it follow-
from the fromt 25%,from the sides 50% and from the back 75%-i dont know if this is true but you do crit more if you are in the back of the enemy.They can launch 2 specials in 0.5sec-got awesome crit rate (good vs nukers low p def and cast interrupting alot) and are fast (reach nukers very fast).
When you try to kite a dagger you are actually with your back turned to him-got droped once because of this.Best bet is to sleep/heal/move out of range.But daggers got a fast attack speed (spell interruption).Also daggers killing ANYTHING is a game of chance.You might miss 20 specials in a row-you might land all of them.
Kiteing a dagger is easy, mage slow spells land almost all the time, and there is little you can do buff wise to prevent it. As soon as slow lands you can simply walk away and nuke at your leisure. Also it is impossible to hit a moving target with a melee move, this bug is still in-game and it sucks. So i imagine you stood still whilst this dagger stabbed you from behind. I cant even hit a mage thats walking and im running full pelt, i click the attack button and it constantly says incorrect target, wth is with that, im point blank and am still useless, GG.
Nah the first time he came to me (no slow-he is white) and droped me with 2 specials(0.5 sec remember?).Next time he comes to me again-first special failed-i try sleep-he interupts me (need to wait for sleep to recharge!) try to run-turn my back on him-next special lands.Dont forget that enemyu must flag so you can use slow!
it is not 0.5 seconds. A dagger cant pull off 2 specials in 1 second. First, i doubt your fingers can move that fast, and second you wouldnt even see the animation. When daggers do skills i can see their bodys turn and arm extend and stab, if that was all done in 0.5 seconds then i must have mutant power to slow down time in my minds eye.
He attacked you first, even if he fails he still flags, so you launch out a slow then walk away. /social dance /social laugh. /social fireball of death.
The time between the specials didnt give me to CLICK away even.I couldnt even react to my HP bar at all.Almost instant.Just push 1 2 and there you go-2 specials.
Two buffs still isnt enough to kill you tho, then the dagger has to wait for the re-use timer meaning he has to rely on stabbing you, and so long as your running it wont happen.
Mmmmk ive posted this but....first special 1.7k dmg.Most all my CP and parts of HP are gone.Second special 1.7k dmg again=dead nuker.He didnt have buffs he was hunting at my spot for over an hour and i didnt see him use scrolls either.
It was a B grade dagger+4 im in Demon set+3 all (including boots and helm).Two specials are more than enough to kill me IF they land.I nuked him 4 times before he came to me 700 dmg each-at the last nuke he came to me interrupting it with the first special.
BTW i should say that this thread has been answered.The absurd name of 16x dmg is cleared so we are getting it offtopic:/
You always mention daggers in every post you make and how they beat you. I know of no other mage in the world that has problems vs dagger classes, they have insignificant HP, those 4 nukes should have killed him, as for you hitting for just 700 dmg to an un-buffed no m def passive class...i laugh at you, were you even using bsps? did you use 'surrender to element' ?
On white?Then you should read again about the 50 INT.The guy had BO full set+3.It DOES make a diff.
Im not saying daggers can kill 100/100 mages-im pointing out classes that do MORE than 100 dmg to a nuker and if the nuker isnt carefull hes dead.Im posting my own experience of the game.I dont think these things up-its what happend to me.Too many ppl here just talk without knowing.
Its not about me losing to someone-im saying this class is a clear danger to any nuker out there.He has alot of speed,nice crits and awesome specials WHEN they land.
Also this is not a chat and we have gone too far off topic.
Its not far off topic, besides its free post counts and i get to educate you.
What do you mean by 'on white' ??
Any class can be a threat to another, hell an EE can threaten a mage if its para'd. You say your experiances are that you lose to daggers, i can tell you other mages experiances are that they 2-3 shot mages with ease at melee range. Also m def enchanting makes jack all difference seriously, i take like 30 less dmg now that i made my whole BO set +3. 30 dmg big woop.
I know for a fact my TSS can out dmg a daggers special. My TSS can take the CP of a mage, which isnt that impressive as they have crap all cp anyway. I then need to brake thru there 3k hp.
Why is it also you compare a B grade dagger vs you in C grade?
I cant surrender a white player.I didnt have the time to surrender or sleep him after he flagged.
Even if i had full avadon+3 i was STILL gonna get killed.
Some ppl think that melee doesnt have any chance.Well daggers/archers can pretty much even the odds i say.Because ive seen the dmg output on low p def classes like the nukers.
Also Sorc isnt SpS-SpS got 3 more WIT.it might not seem much but every other bonus takes the one before into account.400 cast speed+4 WIT=488 cast speed.Add 15% from robes and it goes to 560.And on and on.
Educate me?Nah im just getting even more bored.
Its 1:30 here.have to get up at 8 so im going to sleep.
Doesnt matter what most ppl here think.Nukers are not as strong as you ppl think (atleast my class-bad thing is each nerf hits hardest on the Sorc<.<)
If you want to complain about a class then do so with the Necro.Gloom adds 33% dmg-GG!
A Storm Screamer with SE buffs critted me for 2400 damage and I'm still using 2 Black Ore Rings. She didn't have Dance of Mystic but I didn't have Divine Protection either. Destroyers can one shot nukers without a problem and can use a bow. People need to stop overexagerating or learn to better buff yourselves for the situation.
Destroyers need to be at 30% HP to do that. Nukers can be 100% hp, 100% CP so it doesnt really justify their damage output. Especially when the Destroyer is capable of doing the damage only for 90seconds and even then needs a crit for some spectacular damage. I do _not_ one shot nukers with normal hits and with my low Dex, hitting with a bow is hard enough already. Getting a crit after that is something entirely different then again. And I have low range on the bow so chances are I'm dead before I can use it well.
And now that we're at it, I can one shot almost all classes, nerf me? There's not many classes that can take a crit from 12k+ pattk but you dont see people screaming "Destroyers pwnz0r! Destroyers are FOTM! Destroyers are invincible!", wonder why...
How many high lvl destroyers do you know? rare breed so not many people know. Where as mages are as common as mud, you cant swing a cat without hitting one in the face.
77 you get another (fire vortex-- not sure if overhits [dark/wind didn't] but using it for overhit won't be smart, unless you get crit in the 1st place).
Yes, sorc is kinda screwed. SH has it easy w/ 3 main nukes, one overhit. Then dark voretex, then wind vortext.
But you have AF, cancel and slow (no buffs against slow).
Edit: 4 main nukes (if you count CDL.. which does insane dmg w/ dark vortex combo, needs b2m after dark vortex, CDL+Dark Vortex (+gloom+zerk) complete own RBs)
SH has five nukes with "main nuke" range: Hurricane, Shadow Flare, Death Spike, Vampiric Claw, Curse Death Link. And they get two vortex skills as 76+, for a total of seven main nukes.
SpS has two main nukes (Hydroblast, Solar Flare) and gets two vortex skills, for a total of four main nukes.
Sorc has one main nuke (Prominence) and gets one vortex skill - at 77 (other classes get their first vortex skill at 76), for a total of two main nukes.
Yes, SpS and Sorc have aura flare/aura bolt, but we were talking about "main nukes" (max range) here.
Arcane Protection protects (is supposed to protect, but it seems buggy) against debuffs, i.e. also against Slow.
this was edit for 4 main nukes.
And the brackes were about CDL( however you cant mix vamp. claw/dark vortex w/ CDL and keep nuking), although it's extremly powerful.
Shadow flare I dont cosider main nuke ("3 main nukes, one overhit"). It has higher reuse timer and can't be spammed. Vamp claw is between (still a main nuke).
Note:
I consider main nuke: smth that can be spammed and use in any case; flare and vortex are not among them.
But again: vortexes are not "main" nukes in anyway. They have resue timer like 1 min or so [cant clearly recall now].
Vortexes are simply vortexes. Good, powerful, slow to cast and reuse.