I have been reading many threads and PMs about issues regarding the reporting of User Agreement violators. Please understand that all of these threads and messages have been read by the Head Game Masters and me. We fully understand the situation and will take action where necessary.
Violations of the User Agreement happen on a daily basis on all worlds and each is investigated and acted upon as necessary. Please understand that these actions will never be communicated to the public unless the Lineage II team feels if affects all customers as a whole. In the same vein we will never communicate when an investigation has begun for many obvious reasons. All of this is to prevent finger pointing as just because we are investigating someone does not make them guilty, just as accusing them does not.
When an allegation has been made by a customer on another an investigation always happens. Some of these investigations are easy and take little time (verbal harassment) and others take a lot of time and resources (guilds that bots, exploits, sells…etc.)
Understand that Lineage II support will not act in haste just to quite a protest. Methodical steps will be taken document all allegations of cheating before any action is taken (which again will not be communicated with the player base.)
Because of the constant protest in these forums on a particular group, valuable resources and time have been diverted from other investigations just to service the voices here. This is not a complaint in anyway, just a notice that we are constantly working on issues like this and they all will be solved in due time. Using the boards to protest or constantly “spam” (no pun intended) is not constructive and does not solve players’ problems any faster.
With all of the above said… while the GMs continue to investigate User Agreement violations I ask the players do their part. The illegal actions mentioned in many of the threads here over the many days are caused by the purchasing of in-game assets for real world money. The most effective way to stop this permanently is for people to stop buying game assets for real money. This is a community problem that needs to be solved by the community. If all the energy that was spent here on the forums was spent preaching to friends in game about not buying game assets (and actually shunning those that do,) the server would quickly shape up (of course in combination with GM enforcement.) If the whole server is truly upset by a particular group (for the reasons they say) it would be much more effective for the community to cut them off from the reason the do violate the User Agreement to begin with; Money. Yes, the GMs will continue to close the accounts of violators but it is only a temporary fix as the cost of a new account is a small price to pay for them to make more money.
Again, the Game Masters will continue to seek out and remove violators from the game. Please give Mistryl a break on this subject and send any specific reports to support.
This post will remain open for comment for at least a day it may be locked if comments become unruly.
First of all, thanks for the post. Second, I agree with cutting of this particular group off from the rest of the server, but we cannot know which is their stuff to sell to cut off their lifeline. Sure, we're sure of one shopdwarf they set up, but I'm sure they have more than that and we have no way of knowing which ones are theirs.
So if we try to just ignore them and make the problem go away, they'll just be free to raid all they want and we'll be none the wiser when they set up their 10 seperate shopdwarves with different names...
Thank you for the post. I would just like to point out a few things.
While you feel that it's up to the community to prevent buying of in game assets with real world money, we can not do it. We have no power or control over what individuals do as such it is up to NCSoft to remove the sources as soon as possible. Basically make it too expensive to even think about starting such an enterprise. Ban on detection. However I do understand that you also have to weigh the economics of the situation. More subscribers means higher profits for an asset in use (the server). Similar to a building or hotel, you want it as full as possible.
On the issue of our automated compatriots, well they are running rampant. This makes the casual player wonder if they can run everywhere then why can't I as a regular player use one. It would prove advantagious in pvp or in pve since you can tell the status and positions of the enemy as has been displayed in numerous screenshots in other forums.
There are other issues but I think these have been discussed ad naseum.
thx for a non automatical generated post...........this is definately a step the community has been waiting for...........hopefully in some weeks we will see some ingame results of ur investigations
There have been times Ive had the priveledge to log in right after NC has done a massive bot ban.. and I tell ya the difference is definetly noticeable! All of a sudden you can actually get your seeds in, Blazing Swamp is wierdly empty, and you can actually walk through a cata/necro and find an unoccupied room without too much trouble. Its great! But its been a while since the last one. Would be great to see those kind of bans on a more regular basis :)
Is there no legal action that can be taken against sites that sell virtual property? granted that there is no law against it, there must be a loop hole, just like downloading music.
Thanks for posting spam. It will help to at least put our minds at ease that something is being done about this issue.
And while there is no law specifically forbidding sale of virtual property, our EULA states that it is against the rules of NC Soft and a violation of terms to play the game. This is a touchy subject for lawmakers, as virtual property does not theoretically exist outside of some electrons in a person's, or in this case a company's, computer. That being said, virtual property is still intellectual property of the person or company which created it. Just like writings of various people are intellectual property and thus copyrighted, so is adena on Lineage 2 and thus under protection of intellectual property laws. The adena belongs to NC Soft. Sale of that adena outside of the rules set down by the company are illegal as such. This is not an easy matter to deal with, however, as legal costs would be extremely high trying to take companies to court internationally. And also, there is the problem of other countries not having the same intellectual property rights as we do in the US. It is possible to take these companies to court, and quite probable to win them in court as well, but to what cost? The Asian market, where a lot of the professional farmers hail from is a booming business, and a new economy which has just started to come out of its shell. There is a lot of money to be made from that economy, so there is also the issue of balancing possible future clients to alienating them.
While I fully agree that something needs to be done, there is also a limit to the scope of solutions. Banning Chinese IP's is completely out of the question, as the US customer base is roughly 15% of the Chinese customer base. Providing new servers for Chinese players is a valid option, as we have seen with a move towards a European server (Teon.) However, this costs money, and most people in China and other parts of Asia are quite poor compared to those in the US and Europe.
It's a horse apiece really. But, to at least ban a known group of botters/farmers would definitely put the players in the US and Europe at ease. It would also make the things NC Soft does behind the scenes slightly visible. It isn't expected that NC Soft disclose information regarding all EULA infringements, and they certainly should not have to. But an acknowledgement of this particular situation will help to keep the game alive in the US and Europe. As we say here in America: Throw us a bone. At least let us see that you are doing things to deal with this problem, as it has been getting out of hand recently.
It is simply amazing to actually see a real response to our concerns, Thank you! Thank you very much.
Here is a little idea to help you Elminate the RMT'ers and ProFarmers that are the source of extreme anguish.
Hire a Private Investigator to (dare I say it) buy adena from the Known vendors. This indiviual will then report and Log all information necessary to:
#1 Ban the account the Adena was traded from.
#2 Allow for a source, that can be used to Trace the Adena to all the given Pro Farmer Accounts.
For example: Bott1 trades 50 mil adena to PEye1 at X:XX pm on this day.
Bott1 receives 10 mil fromn Bott2, 5 mil from Bott3, 25 mil from Bott4 and 10 mil from Kiffy.
The P.I. can Screen Shot the character the is 2nd party in th transaction, document times and places.
The purchased adena will obviously be confiscated for evidence during trial/bannings.
Here's the Best part... Spam comes in and can see the given evidence (you have the Logs showing the player to player transactions) Whips out his Mighty Ban Hammer....
WHOP!
WHOP!
WHOP!
Thats one less adena seller plaguing our community!
I understand kiffy kills many raid bosses guys but comon she has offerd many times to share them. But You continually pk and greif them. I am not denying anything. But there is nothing that can be proved there. Every account they have IS being played by a person. There are many of tight-knit clans. For example KoS we would exp and put all of our money together and help equip. You guys continually come to the boards and whine and whine about the flaws in the game. How there is no pvp how the raid "farmers" suck. Give me a break Hindemith loves to PvP 300:20 odds. Go [censored] drop them then you nubs.
I understand kiffy kills many raid bosses guys but comon she has offerd many times to share them. But You continually pk and greif them. I am not denying anything. But there is nothing that can be proved there. Every account they have IS being played by a person. There are many of tight-knit clans. For example KoS we would exp and put all of our money together and help equip. You guys continually come to the boards and whine and whine about the flaws in the game. How there is no pvp how the raid "farmers" suck. Give me a break Hindemith loves to PvP 300:20 odds. Go [censored] drop them then you nubs.
Dropped them before, but they don't care... because they bot. Amazing concept alert!!
I understand kiffy kills many raid bosses guys but comon she has offerd many times to share them. But You continually pk and greif them. I am not denying anything. But there is nothing that can be proved there. Every account they have IS being played by a person. There are many of tight-knit clans. For example KoS we would exp and put all of our money together and help equip. You guys continually come to the boards and whine and whine about the flaws in the game. How there is no pvp how the raid "farmers" suck. Give me a break Hindemith loves to PvP 300:20 odds. Go [censored] drop them then you nubs.
Kiffy offered to share them? LOL
Kiffy has never offered to "share" the rb's
Anyone else comes to a raid they are planning to do, and they drop them.
Anyone tries to tag along, and they get dropped.
Kiffy is a...
nvm, i won't flame kiffy here.
Get your facts straight, and quit hiding behind a stupid forum name.
In reply to backagain's post ... I say kiffy today in game, and being the poor beggar newb I am, I asked if she could possibly help me with an item or two to sell being that I am still poor and cant afford my D grade helm to finish my set.... they responded to me by saying, a level 24 that wants to wear a grade?! and then asked who my main was, after i told them that i was fresh to the server and only had been playing a week, they said i was a "lier" and ignored the rest of my pm's...... so much for the idea of sharing!!!!
arghhh....
:mad:
Rant By your favorite RB Party Leading Lord Minion
Now that we have a formal post by a real person, lets all try to be content and let them do their job. Its hard for a fireman to run into a burning building if all you are doing is shouting in their ear on how to run in. I am pleased with the reply we recieved. Also, last request....lets keep this post civil and dont use ingame names on the situations at hand. Perhaps they will see some maturity out of Hindemith and will be more willing to help.
spam... spam... spam... this is as close to a predictable answer I can get out of anyone. You reply here giving us a speech as if we didn't know the problem and possible solutions. But you don't provide any reason to believe you will investigate more.
Please understand that these actions will never be communicated to the public unless the Lineage II team feels if affects all customers as a whole.
So you don't believe the Real Money Trading industry effects all customers? It sure as hell does. It manipulates the economy, it gives advantages to players whom are richer in the real world, it deprives real players of enjoying certain features of the game. If the RMT industry completely eliminates one feature of the game (Raiding high level mobs) then don't you think something needs to be done? And wouldn't this effect all customers? I love raiding and I've looked and tried to raid but haven't been able to do so in months.
Some of these investigations are easy and take little time (verbal harassment) and others take a lot of time and resources (guilds that bots, exploits, sells…etc.)
Yes, the farmers do take much longer but the Redguards clan were talking about has been around since the early reign of Chronicle 3. How much time does it take? How many years?
The most effective way to stop this permanently is for people to stop buying game assets for real money. This is a community problem that needs to be solved by the community. If all the energy that was spent here on the forums was spent preaching to friends in game about not buying game assets (and actually shunning those that do,) the server would quickly shape up (of course in combination with GM enforcement.) If the whole server is truly upset by a particular group (for the reasons they say) it would be much more effective for the community to cut them off from the reason the do violate the User Agreement to begin with; Money. Yes, the GMs will continue to close the accounts of violators but it is only a temporary fix as the cost of a new account is a small price to pay for them to make more money.
*clap* *clap* BRAVO! I love your performance SPAM. You turn the blame on us for not doing our job. True if it worked it would be the most effective method, and on paper it is. But like communism it just doesn't work, GREED is a factor.
We do spend our time in game telling people not to buy adena but do they listen? No. Most don't get caught, they tell lies of other ways they got their adena. And the ones that are obvious, the people that care about the problem don't associate with the bunch. Here on Hindemith at least players have gone up in arms against players who buy adena and have killed bot trains only to see them back hunting 5minutes later. Of course the community hasn't shaped up. As well it's almost impossible to not buy from illegal sellers because you don't know who is legit and who is not all the time. Players like Kiffy we do though and players do still buy from her if it's the cheapest.
As an end, I will outline a long ago example of how players have tried to handle the problem. A clan whom went by the name of Divine in Chronicle 1 blocked off the entrance into Cruma Tower to all whom we knew were farmers. At this time farmers botted many rooms in Cruma Tower. For a little while it was working, until GM's intervened and ported the blockade outside. At this time the GM's stressed the players to handle the matter themselves only to have the GM's respond faster against legit players trying to make the game fair than the illegal players themselves. Ever since this incident I've never had faith in the systems GM's use to try to keep the game fair. As a result players are still unable to raid which is supposed to be a feature of Lineage 2.
Vent does bring up a valid point. Why are we the customers being told to handle all these issues in game? What do we pay you for?
How are we expected to police the bots, ebayers and other issues? What options we have are very limited, we have pvp and pking...so to police the game for the GM's we have to chance losing our own gear and time and levels?
I really see this as being overly flawed. Botters and ebayers and professional adena resellers are not a community issue, and not something we as the community of players can police or even detect. Most of us use all our petitions in one day reporting bot trains that have little to no effect.
I don't understand why you don't study the coding for [removed] and come up with a way to disable it from connecting to the server. I've read on other sites that it has automated scripting to answer in game pm's and GM petitions. So even if we petition the same train everyday for the rest of our lives as long as it answers the GM then it is no longer suspected?
I am just extremely frustrated by the entire situation and the continious run around I get. More often then not I do not even get a live GM for my questions and I get a lousy auto-mated response which tells me my money is not good enough for your company. But the 9 accounts bot and paid for by an adena resellar are.
Please don't post the name of third-party programs. - M
And Domi was as guilty as any clan leader on the subject. I hope some clan leaders, including whomever ends up my next, take this to heart. In reality, most will sell their souls to win a pvp or have a good member in a party. If this is necessary to be succesful, it sounds like a design issue. Back at ya spam o.o
One thing I read in your post spam, that many have already commented on, was policing the matters ourselves. Someone already mentioned that it could cost us OUR -hard earned- gear. Bots/professional adena farmers have no risk of loss when engaged in pvp. Something that takes us our entire L2 lives could be lost in a single day of "policing" bots. While they get theirs back in a matter of minutes. Also, as far as items go, adena gets on their websites by matter of their farming. In essence for us to get what we want legitly, we pay an unlegit player adena in which they turn and resell to other nonlegit players. By NCSoft not stopping these problems, it allows this particular faction we are talking about to continue to get their drops, sell to us, then resell the adena made from us. You put lovely new toys in the game and we can only get from illegal characters since the larger alliances can not get these raids done due to the bosses not being there. But yeah, I'm rambling now I'm sure. Most every point I've made has been made 2 or more times. The community cannot police this matter without the fear of losing their L2 careers worth of work pking them, and since we cannot pk in town, we cannot police that matter either. Please don't ask us to do your jobs.
I think most what you said was fair, and to me you have given the impression you guys are investigating our problem with the clan mentioned.
Although, like a couple of other posters made, we cannot control ppl buying in-game items for RL cash. I understand the concept of no ebay=no bots, but even if ppl didnt ebay, ppl wud still bot for lvls.
not as a flame but i feel NCSoft needs to just improve with the informtaion that we give in a petition, as we spend out time making one. Only to find the problem hasnt been sorted. I understand sometimes, you guys short staffed, or many petitions, or even the fact that the offender cannot/isnt actually affending. but i can honestly say in the last month ive made prolly like 20 petitions, and i cant to mind remember one being sorted.
-Sorry also justa quick question please, i always wondered this..
Why can a GM not just run around for himself to check bots, isnt too time consuming as he wud find lots on a 10 min run. Again please dont take this as a flame, just something i always wondered.
By the time he/she read petitions the GM cud easily have run around for himself checking out spot 10 minutes per bot would clear an easy 40 bots or so.
Is there no legal action that can be taken against sites that sell virtual property? granted that there is no law against it, there must be a loop hole, just like downloading music.
They already work with ebay programs to reduce it but seriously...just host the site outside the country and what are you gonna do?
<grabs phone>
Get me the minister for internal affairs in China! We have a bot problem in Lineage 2!
Is there no legal action that can be taken against sites that sell virtual property? granted that there is no law against it, there must be a loop hole, just like downloading music.
They already work with ebay programs to reduce it but seriously...just host the site outside the country and what are you gonna do?
<grabs phone>
Get me the minister for internal affairs in China! We have a bot problem in Lineage 2!
ROFL
If I'm elected president, I just might try this...
Is there no legal action that can be taken against sites that sell virtual property? granted that there is no law against it, there must be a loop hole, just like downloading music.
They already work with ebay programs to reduce it but seriously...just host the site outside the country and what are you gonna do?
<grabs phone>
Get me the minister for internal affairs in China! We have a bot problem in Lineage 2!
ROFL
If I'm elected president, I just might try this...
IMO
:D
you been running your campaign for presidency since c1... and you havn't been elected yet?
-Sorry also justa quick question please, i always wondered this..
Why can a GM not just run around for himself to check bots, isnt too time consuming as he wud find lots on a 10 min run. Again please dont take this as a flame, just something i always wondered.
By the time he/she read petitions the GM cud easily have run around for himself checking out spot 10 minutes per bot would clear an easy 40 bots or so.
it is true and for example if u check the "Catacomb Of The Apostate" there isn't even 1 single room without bots
it is ridiculous that people have to pk bots just to earn some XP... :(
it is true and for example if u check the "Catacomb Of The Apostate" there isn't even 1 single room without bots
it is ridiculous that people have to pk bots just to earn some XP... :(
lol yes - we went to Patriots yesterday to exp with subs/lower lvl clannies. There literally was not ONE SINGLE ROOM without bots. There were no "real" players in there, only (totally obvious) bot trains. Usually you flag on them, they leave the room and politely wait outside until you finish xping, but yesterday they were a bit more annoying, so we actually had to go red on them until they got the point. Like people in this thread already said, it is SO **** OBVIOUS they are bots. I mean, you could lead them by the nose by dropping adena/seal stones in front of them, then all the healers in the party ran for the 1 adena pile to pick it up. When we pulled a mob over to have a little fun with them, they all force logged at the same time. We reported them, but for some reason I do not believe they will be gone when we go there again in the near future...
Yes, it might take a while to thoroughly investigate a "normal" player who is suspected to bot. But come on - a bot train like this should not take longer than a few minutes to port there with a non-gm toon, have a look and hit the "ban" button. A "operation cleaning time" in every cata/necro every few days would really, really help. Just have a gm port there with a normal toon, walk through the cata and remove all the **** obvious bot trains.
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"operation cleaning time" in every cata/necro every few days would really, really help. Just have a gm port there with a normal toon, walk through the cata and remove all the **** obvious bot trains.
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Can I add forest of outlaws/bandit stronghold area? Can I add: spider nest. Can I add just east of aden. Can I add DE village?
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"operation cleaning time" in every cata/necro every few days would really, really help. Just have a gm port there with a normal toon, walk through the cata and remove all the **** obvious bot trains.
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Can I add forest of outlaws/bandit stronghold area? Can I add: spider nest. Can I add just east of aden. Can I add DE village?
I really appreciate efforts of GMs to make the game clean of RMT and botting.
Nevertheless, I'd like to emphasise the ineffectiveness of current game protection against botters. It looks like mostly client-side and still not working properly for most popular bots :/
GameGuard hinders legit players from running various legit third-party programs in conjunction with LineageII. But bots are unafected as much as intended.
I'd like to stress this point again. Server-side bot protection is needed. GameGuard does not work well enough, it should be replaced or upgraded to the point it will effectively prevent botting.
I am not eluded. There is no such thing that will prevent every illegal activity and will never be. But the current state of game protection systems is obviously not enough to make RMT ineffective enough to drive RMT companies out of business in LA2 "adena market".
The adena buyers we can and do shun if we know for sure. Which is really hard to prove. Your events last year really made a lot of people rich, and those of us that used that adena to invest into crafting and selling, has made it hard for me to say that a guy e-bays just because he pays 30m for an item.
People, keep the focus on the main problem. One step at a time. That one clan is on every server under different names HGSPAM, and it shouldn't be a suprise to any of you. If we can take care of the raid farmers, like you guys did when there was 2 clans of them on hindemith, I would be happy to continue my training of bots on a daily basis in branded and worshipers. Kind of a give/take relationship.
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"operation cleaning time" in every cata/necro every few days would really, really help. Just have a gm port there with a normal toon, walk through the cata and remove all the **** obvious bot trains.
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10 minutes a day wud clear hundred of bots per week with out player having to petition, also saving the GMs time having to read petitions. Also making it a more effective against illegal programs.
It doesn't, but i want to keep the priorities straight. While I wish neither were present, I personally believe the raid farmers are the more intense evil for reason we all already know.
it is true and for example if u check the "Catacomb Of The Apostate" there isn't even 1 single room without bots
NCsoft will never do a [censored] about botters for a very simple reason - if bots are banned, i imagine more than a half people will leave the game because they find it too boring to work hard to get this or that item etc. Also the money botters pay are no different from those any others player pay for their accounts. So Spam has a point there, its not NCsoft fault that people want easier ways ingame, such is almost anyone's character.
I report, train, they force log.. Nothing changes.
Then perhaps HGMSpam could address the force log issue. It seems to me that it would be something that would be easily detected by reviewing the logs, if reported. I'll see if I can get him to respond.
I was in apostate the other nite trrying to xp my Ws again(need lv 62) and have to say I was disappointed. I did find a room but it appeared an bot train had just been wiped and I got lucky finding the room. For the 2 hours I was there, they continually ran through the room to see if I was still there. I mean it's plainly obviuos they are using a 3rd party program. If gm's would just go run trhough the necro's/cat's, they would see how bad the problem actually is. The only bad thing is, the profarmers are leveling their new toons at the same time they are farming cats. SO it's a never ending process. Good luck and i hope to see a new post in the next few weeks of another round of bots being banned. I hope its right before the next L2 event. :) More money for me!!!!
oh ok. So Farmers/3rd party program users just have fast fingers, and can log a full group out with the lineage 2 game client in a matter of like 2 seconds? i dun think so.
Actually you don't have to have fast fingers to log out 9 accounts.
I have two accounts and get them both logged within a couple of seconds simply by going to my task manager and clicking end task on each client. Ending the process tree from gameguard has the same effect, but has a chance of messing up your computer.
So, no, you don't have to get into each client to log out. I'm sure the bot programs they use have much better ways of handling logging out. And ways to not have them in combat mode also. I saw a couple bots in Field of silence a few weeks ago. I flagged on one and they ran away and logged. But the one I flagged on was not in combat mode for some reason. Still don't understand how that happens to tell the truth.
First of all I would like to thank everyone for remaining civil and observing the forum rules during this discussion. (For the most part I saw some edits by ~M.)
I would like to say that I am not blaming the community or pushing this issue off as one the community has to “Police.” Everyone that works in CS for NCsoft knows that you are the customers and we are the employees. We fully understand that it is our job to keep the game as fair as possible. The point I was trying to make in my original post is that many folks that start out in the, “I’m going to play by the rules,” camp, sometimes fall into the “If you can't beat them, join them,” camp. I truly meant to reinforce your faith in the fact that we as a customer service department are working on removing User Agreement violators and it would be a shame for a once legitimate player to be caught on the wrong side of the line when their judgment day hits. I am also not telling players to keep track of who the bad guys are. I am asking that if you have a friend or clan mate that has obviously purchased assets, let them know how wrong you feel it is.
I do not think it is the responsibility of the community to completely stop RMT (real money transactions) but by lowering the overall purchasing it make the job easier for Game Masters. As it stands now when 100 accounts are closed for User Agreement violations, 120 are created right after because it is profitable for them to purchase more accounts.
I have kept my 2 posts as general as possible (not mentioning any group in particular) but still have tried to answer your questions. Let me restate that your outcry has been heard. It was heard when the very first petition or support ticket was sent. There are no automated replies; a GM has to read every single petition that is sent and has to perform some task for that ticket before it can be closed. It just so happens that the same question or same report comes in so often that of course the same answer will be given.
As I feel that I have explained this as best I could (without breaking forum rules myself) I will not answer in this thread again. Feel free to discuss what I have said. Please stick to the forum rules.
Is that actually worse than an aggie? Or about the same?
Being from Texas myself, I think being called an aggie in a good thing. Don't know what the heck tea sipper means.
Spam, I hope to god you mean what you say and when I can get my computer running and back in game that I'll see a difference. You're a fellow Texan bud, I'm trusting in that and the fact NCsoft is still getting my $15 a month even when I'm not playing. Everyone I know knows how I feel about buying Adena so I think I've done my part of what you wanted done....the rest is upto you my friend.
Is that actually worse than an aggie? Or about the same?
Being from Texas myself, I think being called an aggie in a good thing. Don't know what the heck tea sipper means.
Spam, I hope to god you mean what you say and when I can get my computer running and back in game that I'll see a difference. You're a fellow Texan bud, I'm trusting in that and the fact NCsoft is still getting my $15 a month even when I'm not playing. Everyone I know knows how I feel about buying Adena so I think I've done my part of what you wanted done....the rest is upto you my friend.
I think the misunderstanding is people need to hear the same thing from spam once a month or something.
I think that would be an excellent suggestion. No sarcasm, I think it would help to have periodic "we're still doing our jobs" posts to keep people on-track.
I honestly like the idea. The bitter truth would be, if I did it unsolicited or said the same thing each time it would be considered an automated message. :)
I think that would be an excellent suggestion. No sarcasm, I think it would help to have periodic "we're still doing our jobs" posts to keep people on-track.
I can see it now....
When a person fills out petition about a person using a 3rd party program, they complain that they are getting auto responed from the GM. When really the GM is typing out a reply, it's just they end up typing the same things over and over again.
So spam posts once a month but he ends up covering the same topics because they don't change. Then people will say they are getting an auto SPAM.
I honestly like the idea. The bitter truth would be, if I did it unsolicited or said the same thing each time it would be considered an automated message. :)
Anyway, I will see what Tis and M think.
LMAO.... I was thinking the same thing as i was typing my reply and spam was posting his. :)
Next winter, people will be thankful for the snowplow drivers but not the guys who go by in the middle of the night and salt the road. They rarely see the latter and often see the former, and that visibility really affects how people think. If we never see it, psychologically it's not really there...
I think the problem is that it's all behind-the-scenes work and, without some kind of "we did stuff, by the way" message, it's easy to start wondering if someone is still out there.
A couple things about what happened that month and some high- or low-lights would probably placate a lot of people, even with 90% recycled material. Yes, some people will say "well he said basically the same thing last month!" but at least you'd be right there, reminding us that the roads are being salted ;)
If nothing else, it's a professional way of saying "we still care"--and that goes a long way with a frustrated customer.
Yanno, about those proxy servers. You can still find the originating IP even through an anonymous proxy server. Does it make it harder to track the originating IP? Of course, but it is not impossible to do. If the Chinese government can trace and block an IP that has gone through 5 ISP's and 15 anonymous proxy servers to let out information to those connected to the internet about current Chinese human rights violations, I think that NC Soft could IP block China as well, and also stop the problem of proxies at the same time. Only problem is that they would lose about 60% of their subscription base. That hurts the pocket book just a little bit.
In addition to that, it will still take time then to assess the current drop tables and modify them accordingly. While that may be automated to keep economic growth on the server at a decent pace, it will still take time.
Mass IP ban, while theoretically a good idea, fails to follow NC Soft's main goal: to make money. Gradual IP bans and account banning lets them gain new customers at roughly the same rate they block them, altho probably a little bit less than that. This helps offset the cost of banning accounts, while at the same time keeping the game's economy from going to hell in a handbasket.
It is a solution, though not the rigt or practical one from any point of view. I do not like botters or farmers, but mass banning them will cause economic breakdown on the server.
Well in my opinion, how this whole thing sparked was a move from Hindemith as a public outcry against Raid Boss Farmers. I am positive NCSoft will lose more subscriber base if they left Redguards alone than banning any organized raid boss farming attempts. It really isn't hard to do, NCSoft knows of Redguards presence you can be sure. But I can tell you, only NCSoft knows why they haven't taken any steps.
Theres two types of farmers, farmers who try to avoid players and try to not inconvinience them and the farmers who have no care about the features which the game provides and will interfere with legit players. The latter is a far bigger problem than the average farmer hunting in a corner of the map, and in my opinion all manpower should be on the latter until it's resolved, then crack down on the hidden farmers.
Maybe NCSoft is lying low trying to figure out Redguards adena trail and find sufficient proof until they can ban all of their accounts and prevent them from being able to buy accounts in the future.
However saying that, each day that NCSoft waits is one less day players in Lineage 2 can raid high end content. This means it's best for NCSoft to forget longterm plans and put down their foot on these guys killing the Raid Bosses. If they buy accounts and try again, then so what? Same thing as before, clamp down and ban those accounts.
As well I have issues with some other policies NCSoft has. Banned players, if they wait long enough can get their account/gear back. Now how does this help? They tell their friends "hey even if you do get banned, just wait a month or so and you'll have your account back!" I find this ludicrous and I've seen some views of some botters and if they see NCSoft start cracking down on botters and doing alot of bannings they will hide low and stop botting for that period of time. Now only if NCSoft could keep this up all the time.
True NCSoft may lose 50% of their userbase but their will be a good effect and players from other games will come back if the bot problem is minimalized. 90% of most players reasons for leaving Lineage 2 is the plague of bots, what will happen if there are less bots? More legitimate players will come back.
US workers wont play l2 in 12hr shifts for 50 cents a day will they? the conditions these ppl work in would be illegal in the west. they are basically 21st century sweatshops
US workers wont play l2 in 12hr shifts for 50 cents a day will they? the conditions these ppl work in would be illegal in the west. they are basically 21st century sweatshops
ATM I play L2 in more like 15 or 20 hour shifts for nothing!!
US workers wont play l2 in 12hr shifts for 50 cents a day will they? the conditions these ppl work in would be illegal in the west. they are basically 21st century sweatshops
if it ever did happen... and believe me this is a big "WHAT IF". Adena prices would at least skyrocket to at least $10 a million. Making the amount players can buy in adena very very low. As well you might say it would encourage legit players to sell their in game currency as well. If adena was going at $10 a million... my account would be worth well over 4 grand on the market, not that I would ever be tempted to do that...
But as of right now the Chinese rmt industry completely wipes out any chance for any western company to get a foothold in because of the unbelievably low minimum wage.
“We fully understand the situation and will take action where necessary.”
It’s just a shame it took a server wide outcry for you to take action on a known farmer clan that is on EVERY server. So far all I have seen from support is spin control while the farmers keep killing the raid bosses. But I am glad you people over at Ncsoft understand the situation and will take action where necessary. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when I read that.
“Please understand that these actions will never be communicated to the public unless the Lineage II team feels if affects all customers as a whole. In the same vein we will never communicate when an investigation has begun for many obvious reasons.”
You don’t need to communicate that you have done nothing about the infamous farmer raid boss clan on all the servers. Every time we log in to take down a raid boss we have a clear message of what you guys are doing. NOTHING! This is not a new problem. This clan has been here since C3. When you say nothing on an issue that effects the “population as a whole” we assume you are doing nothing. When we give you time to take action and still see the same people farming the same raid bosses for months and months, then we are not assuming you are taking any kind of action, except to delete and lock are post about a serious subject. This problem does effect all the customers as a whole and needs to be addressed with more then a public relations post that doesn’t tell us anymore then we already knew. NOTHING
“When an allegation has been made by a customer on another an investigation always happens. Some of these investigations are easy and take little time (verbal harassment) and others take a lot of time and resources (guilds that bots, exploits, sells…etc.) “
Allegations have been made my dozens and dozens of players on ALL the servers. If you had a server **** would it take you months to fix the problem? No, most likely you would have everything up and running and the person banned in 24hrs. Stop making excuses why you can’t ban Redguards and either admit they are on your payroll or that you guys don’t want to take the time track and ban the numerous accounts they have on ALL the servers. If you ban them on Hinde, then you have to ban them on all the other servers and man is that a lot of work!
"Understand that Lineage II support will not act in haste just to quite a protest. Methodical steps will be taken document all allegations of cheating before any action is taken (which again will not be communicated with the player base.)"
Like I said before, by not communicating with the server base you are sending a message that you don’t care and that nothing is going to be done to resolve our problems.
I can’t imagine if my boss came to me and I said, I will not let you know the status of this project and that you just have to wait months, years or never to see it completed. I would be fired. I have played free online games that where run by 3 or 4 people in their homes that had better support then what you guys “provide”.
“Using the boards to protest or constantly “spam” (no pun intended) is not constructive and does not solve players’ problems any faster”
Really, how many GM responses did we get BEFORE we took it to the boards? How many complaints did we leave in game and on your support website to only receive a bogus automated response and no action.? Don’t think that this post is enough to make us forget the Redguards problem. This bought you guys a week, maybe two to do something about them. The longer they stay up the more legit players you lose. New games are coming out and it only takes ONE good one to replace a broken has been. Keep us happy should be the number one priority of Ncsoft, not keep the farmers happy and fed.
“.
“This is a community problem that needs to be solved by the community”
LOL you can’t be serious. To fight them you need to use the programs they use and be on 24/7 to scout them. That is complete BS and an insult to every legit player in L2. If you mugged walking home from work, would you like it if the police said, “um this is a community problem and if you don’t want to get mugged then I suggest you fight back next time the gang of 5 pulls a gun on you.” You are sending us to war without a weapon.
Do your freakin jobs and ban then and then ban then again. They are not hard to spot.
"Again, the Game Masters will continue to seek out and remove violators from the game. Please give Mistryl a break on this subject and send any specific reports to support."
If support didn’t ignore our problems then Mistryl would not need a break. The fact is support is helpless and we have no faith in the system. If you guys did your job , we would not be having this conversation.
“This post will remain open for comment for at least a day it may be locked if comments become unruly.”
Yeah we all know you guys got that part of your job down. LOCK, DELETE, EDIT you are all pros.
US workers wont play l2 in 12hr shifts for 50 cents a day will they? the conditions these ppl work in would be illegal in the west. they are basically 21st century sweatshops
ATM I play L2 in more like 15 or 20 hour shifts for nothing!!
But, then again, I keep my drops and adena, too.
<scratches chin> It's time to get out more o.o
Nairb has the exact same opinion as I do about Spam's post. He says he needs time and we've given him a whole chronicle to sort it out. If Spam is waiting to see who the kingpins are, we the players don't care, we want our raid bosses, each day is a fun day of raiding down the drain.
Yeah I can tell how Lineage 2 is the ultimate PvP game, because the entire PvE element is dominated by farmers.
If when you ban 100 they create 120, keep doing it, 120*30$ every time! surely this is a no-brainer.
yeah no kidding eh? I wonder how much of the other parts of his posts are exagerated? I mean because he represents NCSoft all of what he says has to be true right?...
If when you ban 100 they create 120, keep doing it, 120*30$ every time! surely this is a no-brainer.
How much money do you think they make before they get caught? If you spend 30 bucks on an account, and then make 50 before it's banned...you're coming out ahead. And that means the "no-brainer" is that this is profitable.
To be honest, I've been tempted at times to "if you can't beat em join em" and run a catacomb of trains. It's disgusting that you could be making car payments with virtual means. Then the Republican comes out in me and I think...but gosh, it's such a big market... Oh well, values > all.
No i mean its profitable for NC to ban them, regardless of what profit/loss the farmer makes.
Ah while true, his point was it will be ineffective as a solution. It actually just makes them money as they go register new CD keys >.> Regardless, spam's original point is entirely true. If you are too afraid to express your opinions on ebaying to your own clan members, then the community standard is acceptance. When that's the case, it doesn't even have to be underground or hidden and self perpetuates like a rum runner during prohibition.
If when you ban 100 they create 120, keep doing it, 120*30$ every time! surely this is a no-brainer.
How much money do you think they make before they get caught? If you spend 30 bucks on an account, and then make 50 before it's banned...you're coming out ahead. And that means the "no-brainer" is that this is profitable.
That is part of the problem yes. You should start to ban them from the newbie village when they first log on. If you ban them before they make good their investment and do that consequently. They will have to find other ways of making money.
In other words, shorten then time between spotting the perb and banning him.
Please understand that these actions will never be communicated to the public unless the Lineage II team feels if affects all customers as a whole.
Some companies that have MMO's have a list posted on their website of all players that have been banned and why, as to inform their customers of what's been done to keep the servers "clean". I know NC Soft does things their own way but I don't see the harm in posting such information. One reason I would like to see such information is because I'd like to know if the bots I reported were actually banned. There are some that I have been reporting for almost a full year now and they are still hunting around the Gludio area as they were back in C2.
Having bots banned won't hurt the server's economy too much given that players that play as bounty hunters can still provide what other players need and the manor system is there too for basic mats. Many botters use the manor system so if they were banned then more seeds would be available for legit players to use.
Also, the issue with people ebaying gear/adena ties in with the botters that provide such services so if the bots get banned then the amount of such transactions will be reduced. Raid boss farmers are probably one of the best providers given they make a fortune off of raid drops.
Some companies that have MMO's have a list posted on their website of all players that have been banned
One of those is NCSoft.
"huh?"
Yes, Lineage2.co.kr has a list of more as 10,000 banned bots publically on the main website. Between 3 and 5 characters from their name are withheld (with *'s).
Spam, honestly, why does your own company have such a thing in Korea, but not here? I have no problems honoring the decissions of a company ('we do not tell you about who we ban'), but it just seems odd the very same company does it for the Koreans, but not here.
Some companies that have MMO's have a list posted on their website of all players that have been banned
One of those is NCSoft.
"huh?"
Yes, Lineage2.co.kr has a list of more as 10,000 banned bots publically on the main website. Between 3 and 5 characters from their name are withheld (with *'s).
Spam, honestly, why does your own company have such a thing in Korea, but not here? I have no problems honoring the decissions of a company ('we do not tell you about who we ban'), but it just seems odd the very same company does it for the Koreans, but not here.
The laws for sharing such information is better defined in other countries. To share this information for the North American and Euro (servers are hosted in US) service could open the company up to legal action as the sharing of virtual alias by a company is not well defined.
Not to mention that having a list of names that only have 2 letters is just silly.