There are days when I have to just sit back and wonder about this game. NCSoft did a wonderful job making this game. It was completely accessable up till B grade in terms of gear. But A grade gear became a complete and total nightmare to EARN(This is not ranting because I dont have A grade, Im in full Tallum Heavy).
Poor decision making by game designers made getting a PvP set on a North American server an almost impossible mountain to climb. This situation was tolerable in C3 as raid bosses provided a steady influx of A grade gear(Please do not infest my thread with Raid Farmer chatter).
With C4 bringing about a total nerf to raid bosses and thier drops, and with the armor recipes remaining quest only, attaining your A grade gear has become a mind numbing and annoying process.
Like others have said, spending 200+ Hours in ToI to finish a blueprint set only to recieve 1 glove lining is insulting to real players. We used to be able to kill a few raid bosses here and there, and we always concentrated on bosses that dropped helmets(everything else is barely worth the effort), but that is no longer worth the effort.
It has come to the point where the only option left to those of us not in power alliances is to work very hard as a clan to fund the purchases of helmets for our clan mates. Yes, it can be done, but it is a very long and tedious process. Fortunately, there are ways to make a quick buck in this game if you have the right people for the job.
Im just lamenting the current situation, and I am not quite sure how best to fix it without making the situation "too easy". I looked at the S grade bonuses, none of which intrigued me.
what do you mean it takes a verry long time ? your in a crappy market then i made 50 mil just last weekend crafting and selling stuff. think about the market find your nutch theres awlays a way to make good cash
You are missing the point, the market in this game is flawed by the lack of ways to EARN these items. There are TWO ways to get A grade. Drops. Or Quest for Recipes. Now this wouldnt be so bad, except that Questing for these recipes can only be done in 3 places. ToI, DVC and GC. There is a great big world out there full of places to hunt, but if you want A grade without spending hundreds of millions(Lionna, NM Maj and DC helms are all near or over the 100m mark), you can not take advantage of these other places.
no maby your not getting this. i crafted my first nm helm by getting all the BP's. i ended up tradeing with some friends, this was in the first 2 weeks of the chron, got the helm rec and crafted it. a fue months later sold it for over 200M, then i sat on my *** for 3 weeks buying BP's. i got recs for 5 helms, 2 boots and 2 gloves crafted em all, got 3 helms 1 boot and 2 gloves from it ( still havent spent the 200m yet ). then resold all but 1 helm. if you work the system you can make proffit , dont waste your time questing for the bp's. there will awlays be farmers questing for them and people hunting money exploit the farmers. set up shops next to them for 1 third of there price hell i even had players sell me the recs to nm boots helm and gloves for 5 mil each ( first month of chron). like i said work the system dont be the sucker in toi hunting the bp's.
No you are not getting this. I crafted my first nm helm by getting all the BP's. I ended up tradeing with some friends, this was in the first 2 weeks of C3, got the helm rec and crafted it. a few months later sold it for over 200M, then I sat on my *** for 3 weeks buying BP's. I got recs for 5 helms, 2 boots and 2 gloves crafted em all, got 3 helms 1 boot and 2 gloves from it ( still havent spent the 200m yet ), then resold all but 1 helm. If you work the system you can make profit , dont waste your time questing for the bp's. there will awlays be farmers questing for them and people hunting money, exploit the farmers. Set up shops next to them for 1 third of thier price, hell I even had players sell me the recs to nm boots helm and gloves for 5 mil each ( first month of C3). Like I said work the system dont be the sucker in ToI hunting the bp's.
-------
There we go, spelling errors fixed, caps added, and I can understand it now.
What Im saying is, relying on farmers to provide things should NOT be the way to play this game. A grade seemed to be designed for clans to earn and equip members, but it is just far too limited in scope for that to be realistic. Sure, the XP on ToI 10 is hot, but who is going to spend every single night there grinding for a CHANCE to get recipes. Getting 100 Karik Horns and 100 Howler skulls AFTER doing the stupid first part of the quest(65 lights, 65 teeth, 1 mysterious stone. Clan leader turned it in 4 times before she got the stone) is another lame grind, especially because spoils and drops in DVC are..weak.
There could be a multitude of quests to get these things, but no, there is 1 quest for each section and all rewards are random(except GC, its set up nicely).
Dont diss on the guy for his grammer, his point remains valid.
My opinion, A grade is end game, only hard working hardcore people should have it, not your average joe who plays 30 mins a day.
Thats where you and I differ SPS. I believe that my 15$ should earn me the same as your 15$. Hardcore and Casual are just silly labels. I grind 4 hours a night with my clan, and usually play another hour or two a day. I still consider myself to be a casual gamer, because I am not wrapped up in the game, I have my life outside of it. And I may or may not have said this already, but I HAVE my A grade. I worked hard and earned it. I crafted my Tallum Heavy for less than 4m, recipe from GC quest provided by clan, boots and gloves bought for 3m or less each, helmet provided by clan due to seniority as we work our way down the list providing people with helmets. Elysian failed, working on another craft attempt, will make do with +8 Heavy War Axe with Health in the meantime(better than +4 AOBA, glows better, and its fairly unique).
People expect to much to get A grade as soon as they hit level 61, it shouldnt happen. You really should be able to start putting it on untill level 68ish. & to get to lvl 68ish you need to be a dedicated player, meaning you deserve it. If every1 has top gear then whats the point, no 1 is seperated we are all the same. It will just come down to who has the highest OE. Getting into A grade should be a kick *** feat. Every1 is jealous because when they hit lvl 61 they are still runnin about in B grade and get green eyes when they see the 'hard kids' in their A gear, so they then go to the old ebay.com and the rest doesnt need 2 be said.
Hmm..thats odd, I put on my A grade at 64, so I got it too early? I finished my B grade set at 55, C grade at 43, D grade at 33(my longest stretch). Im 68 now, it took me 2 years to get there, not all of us are powergamers looking to get as high level as possible as fast as possible.
Of course there is natural variation. But through hunting for your money alone you cant possibly expect to be able to buy Anything as soon as you get the mastery passive for it. I mean c'mon A grade is up to 200million, GL makeing that through the grind.
Prices wouldn't be so friggin through the roof if not everyone would want it NOW and ALL of it. But also in the world of video games... the product should to a certain point be oriented towards what the customers need... otherwise it won't sell very well... or be flooded with bots. :p
I still think A grade masteries at 61 is a big mistake. Do it like SPS said, no A grade masteries before 68, you won't need it anyway. Anything else is like dangling the metaphoric carrot on a stick infront of the noses of a couple thousand impatient kids. Which hardly ever leads to a happy end. ;)
Ok, I see where we differ SPS, you are thinking in terms of buying all your A grade, in terms of adena. I think in terms of crafting things, which is just plain cheaper if not easier. My tallum heavy set cost me a total of 8 mil out of pocket, my helmet cost the clan 60ish. My complaint, in total, is not about the COST of A grade, it is about the scarcity of recipes, combined with the nerfing of the raid bosses pushing A grade into the range of "yeah..right.."
There are how many more chronicles to come? who know's when it will end. And NC soft has all the grades of gear implemented already. What's gonna happen in C6-C8 (if it goes that far) everyone will be wanting more gear and will be bored with the current stuff. I agree NC put it in game and do make it difficult to get. Hardly anyone has the ability to make 5 out of 8 helms at 60% and to have a dwarf that's able to do that, obviously that guy had a good streak going. Now because he's living high on the moment he comes and says "hey it's easy to make money look at me". Nice try bro
Im not suggesting to move the masteries i like it where they are. I just want people to understand it is not their personal right to deserve an item simply because they have the mastery to use it.
A grade mats and recipes are not as hard to get as your all makeing it out as, its called "co-operation" it works wonders.
Helmet, 100mil(NM/Maj), Heavy armor, 20mil(NM/Maj) and Gloves/Boots 8-12mil each (NM/Maj) so 140mil for armor on average if you buy from shops in Giran. I find it really amusing that the helmet price is more than even some SA'd A-grade weapons >.>
Anyway, 1 month of market play only and you can buy those straight off from the shops, just takes a little dedication. But then again, how many people can dedicate 1 month for crafting, buying and selling just to get 1 set of armor for their toons?
Imho they should add another quest for helmet recipes, or make them even _extra low_ chance drops or spoils from some really nasty mobs.
You overlook the fact that people in general are dumb, smart advises won't help much, only changing the game mechanics in certain points.
But as it seems you are perfectly satisfied with the game as it is... hyperinflation... bots... pvp imbalance... endless grind... you name it... SPS loves it all. ^^
I see it differently from you thats why. You see a pvp inbalance, i see a challenge and tactics. You see bots, i see a free meal. You see a grind, i see the most important part of the game, where you actually meet people and see the game.
You overlook the fact that people in general are dumb, smart advises won't help much, only changing the game mechanics in certain points.
But as it seems you are perfectly satisfied with the game as it is... hyperinflation... bots... pvp imbalance... endless grind... you name it... SPS loves it all. ^^
If every1 feels so strongly with such passion that the game is so seriously pwned and unbalanced, why are you all still here? Because you like the game, live and let live. Dont call for changes where they aint needed. A grade is hardly rare is it. Before long S grade wont be rare either.
You gotta play the market, when supply > demand, buy buy buy and horde for all your worth, then when demand > supply (eg more players hitting lvl 61) sell sell sell. Commen sense, yes. But no 1 bothers to play the market so cry "nerf the prices i cant afford it!"
Well, so far in this thread, the only smart advice I've seen is "buy from farmers". Sorry, you may feel comfortable continueing thier grip on servers, but I am not. I avoid purchasing almost everything from farmers when I am not in a buy shop.
Dont diss on the guy for his grammer, his point remains valid.
Be that as it may, like Sir E said, when it's that incomprehensible I can say something.
That being said, everyone here has an opinion, and wether or not they have something is not the issue. The issue is how to make the item more easily attainable for the rest of the world. A grade is not the end game, and every single person here deserves it for getting to that lvl. However, if you are not in a big clan or powerhouse alliance, you will have a harder time obtaining A grade than those that are.
It doesn't matter if you are "hardcore" or "casual" you are still able to have it. My game runs 24/7 and after 3 years I am still only lvl 58. I spend about 95% of my time crafting shots in town so I can afford A grade right now if I so choose.
So I ask you this..... if it takes me 2+ years to reach A grade does that make me any less deserving than people that have been 75 for who knows how long? (I bet if I gained XP for crafting, I'd be on my 10th subclass by now ><)
Farmers cannot be stopped their a part of the game, you cannot defeat them, give up, its over. The number of 1337ist kids who cba to grind and earn their gear far out weighs you moral juggernauts. Untill mass bannings happen to those who e-bay the farmers will rule supreme. This will never happen however because i would guess well over half the population would be banned, meaning a huge loss of profits. Better take this back to topic if we dont wanna see the golden padlock.
You would deserve it yes because youve worked the market. But other people who grind like nuts and pop out of apostate catacomb level 61 and go "hey wheres my A grade" how can you say they deserve it jsut cos they are 61? They didnt do anything at all except grind, thats only 1 part of the game. There is always a way to make money but most are to blind to see the holes in the market and farm it for all its worth. For example soon after C3 was released there was a huge increase in the knowledge of the PL set, everyone wanted it, so i come in and provide the boots and i got insane high prices for what it cost to make. After a while the supply of boots was far greater then the demand, you have to know when to pull out and go on to the next item.
SPS, just stop please. You are talking about a completely different topic than I am. You are talking about BUYING A grade equipment. I am talking about RECIPES. You keep saying blah blah blah market blah blah blah money, its NOT ABOUT MONEY. Money means NOTHING in this game anymore. The majority of people just buy thier money so I gave up trying to keep up with them.
The TOI quest isn't designed for you to get all 13 BPs yourself. It's designed for you to trade BPs with other people. Whether it's farmers or actual players is immaterial, although I do think that NCsoft should work 1000 times harder to remove farmers.
I don't think it's any problem if players can't complete their a-grade until they are close to 75. I remember when even level 75 players couldn't get A-grade (there was none!).
If you're complaining that you can't get a full, complete A-grade set all on your own then you're missing a big part of lineage2, which is interacting with other players *through the economy*. You're not supposed to farm it all yourself. You're supposed to find your nitch in the economy, and pump out 1 or 2 money making items at a time, through spoiling, crafting, questing, seeding or arbitrage (trading).
Helms *ARE* relatively overpriced, and relatively overscarce compared to what they should be. But it's not ruining the game, because it affects everyone.
There is a theory saying that mentally ill people pretend to themselves that they love what hurts them to protect themselves from even more pain. Who am I to judge wether that theory or that behaviour is right or wrong tho?
If money is NP then you can just buy the helm, if you have a good clan then grind that son of a recipe out >.>
Anyway im out of here, im already lacking in the friends department because i dont follow the sheep, wheres timecop when you need a quick escape?
Again, my problem isnt that I cant get A grade, I HAVE it. I've had it for a couple months. We work the ToI quest as a CLAN and have still only managed 3 turn ins. We worked HARD in C3 to earn helmets. We rolled up alts to do the 25-30 raid bosses every night. We were making 20-40 mil per night off that (13 knowledge gloves, 8 brig helms and 20k D crys every few nights) and buying our helmets that way. We work hard, we have always been a crafting clan, our clan leader made B grade for most of the people in the clan, she made all our B jewlery, we take care of eachother and make things work.
There is a theory saying that mentally ill people pretend to themselves that they love what hurts them to protect themselves from even more pain. Who am I to judge wether that theory or that behaviour is right or wrong tho?
To the poster who said A grade is not exactly rare...it is more rare than it appears at first glance. Why? Because you have silly people running around wearing A grade without haveing that all important helmet (and therefore bonus) just to look 'hot'.
I have spent many, many hours grinding in TOI in parties and duos trying to collect the blueprint and have yet to make a single BP set...still need level 13 and have hundreds of some other stuff. I'm level 68, a huge chunk of 58-68 spent in TOI. I didn't expect to get A grade at 61 but I would have expected to be somewhere closer to it by now.
As clannies get high enough to get the quest we have them sign up and throw their parchments into the pot. So I am not just doing this on my own, we have a group of people doing it together. Gets somewhat disheartening when time after time of opening those things you still can't make 1 single BP set. Then even when you can I hear there is a very good chance of getting 1 single mat rather than any rec at all.
If this is how hard it is to get A grade it feels like I'll be in B grade for the rest of the game....unless I finally get greedy and start making money for me rather than the clan and buy from a kiffy like creature.
I am totally against using realworld money to buy in game gear, and make my views very clear to anyone I find out does it. However, even I can start to see why some people would give up and go that route when working for the recipes feels almost impossible.
I like how A grade mastery is at 61 but people think you shouldn't have it then. If you can wear it, there's no reason why you shouldn't have it.
Even so I'm 71, I'm well over this 68 limit some are suggesting. I've put together 1 set of BP's in two clans I've been in. I've been able to try to craft NO helms in over 9 months for utter lack of recipes. And both clans I've been in have been working to gear their people, through BP's, raids, etc. And I still don't have a helm. That's messed up.
All Im gonna say is LoL, wait until you start your S grade helmet/armor recipe quest... You will think back to this and be amazed you were so worked up over it.
Actually, I wont be, the S grade armor is utterly useless to me. I looked at the set bonuses, and Crusader does not appeal to me or my playstyle. Weapon recipes I'll deal with just fine.
Dont diss on the guy for his grammer, his point remains valid.
My opinion, A grade is end game, only hard working hardcore people should have it, not your average joe who plays 30 mins a day.
Yes End game...right before the S grade end game >.> And wait then hero end game >.> And anything else that ever comes out end game >.> ****, I've gone and confused myself.