1) Component lag that affects the entire server at once and that, apparently, I am personally responsible for. In other words, when SS/potions/shops pause for a few seconds/minutes while everything else continues.
2) WTB/WTS/WTT spam on shout. We have a trade channel dangit! It'll never happen, but I wish NC would classify the trade spam on the shout channel as an exploit of the comm system (it honestly is) and start suspending accounts :D
Getting Lag Killed is mine. Where u stare at your screen and go "I hope I'm not getting mauled by agros right now," unlag, and then find that you dropped your gloves and helmet....that happened to me yesterday.
1) Component lag that affects the entire server at once and that, apparently, I am personally responsible for. In other words, when SS/potions/shops pause for a few seconds/minutes while everything else continues.
2) WTB/WTS/WTT spam on shout. We have a trade channel dangit! It'll never happen, but I wish NC would classify the trade spam on the shout channel as an exploit of the comm system (it honestly is) and start suspending accounts :D
We've got two winners here. I love it (read: I hate it) when I pick up loot, run to the next mob and then my shots fire and a message appears "you picked up ### adena". But, yeah, NCSoft says it's our fault.
WTB/WTS chatter is friggin' annoying and, to those who do it (yes, I know some of you post here) it's counterproductive. You're forcing more and more to simply shut up shout in Giran. NCSoft really needs to make /ignore work on all channels.
You know, compared to the two I mentioned, the autofollow issue is relatively minor in my eyes. Perhaps it's because I regularly use both screens, I dunno...not saying it shouldn't bug ya, but I don't see it myself. Also, the only time I tend to have autofollow break is when the background client is loading too long (it causes it to black out a second or less, but in the process all targetting is lost, which nukes autofollow). If it happens more often to you...ouch?
It happens in certain places more than others. Leaving Giran or Dion it happens constantly. In actual hunting grounds, not so much. I know how to avoid terrain that causes toons to get stuck so that's no biggie. It's getting to the hunting ground that is the PITA.
Ah...yeah I get that, I've resigned myself to clicking near the horizon on each instance seperately and hoping for the best :eek:
I play two accounts on one computer so the screens are overlapped. I have the sound turned off on my second account. I finally stuck a pair of noisy shoes on my healer so I'd know she was still following me. True story.
Slowing mobs >.> AND people buffing me with Nuker buffs. I'M A [censored] DESTRO >.< I got 0 magic skills and getting empower, concentration and wildmagic eats precious buffslots so I need to get overbuffed until those get wiped. When will people learn to recognize Destros?
Btw, I use the shout-chat to peddle my wares ;) But I dont spam that much. 1 message now and then when I alt+tab to L2 from irc/forums.
Yeah i'm a lowbie but I have to say the buy/sell market system in this game is Awful. I have to sit in a town logged in to be able to sell something?! And then I can only have 3 things for sale at a time?! Not to mention having to wade through hundreds of people. They should keep the ability to set up your own shop but add an Auction house like FFXI. Is that so hard?
Do a search on "auction house" on these forums. You'll get the answer on why it's a bad idea. But let's not ruin a perfectly good thread by talking about it here ;)
My biggest peeve in game is actually kind of complicated.
I just HATE it when people complain about alliances, clans, certain hunting spots, the taxes, buy/sell shop prices. Basically I hate it when people complain about things that they can change.
If anyone puts their mind to it, thy can do a lot in this game. You don't like so and so alliance hogging Dion and Giran castles? Go take em foo. You don't like the prices on C crystals? Crush some C gear yourself.
If you have the ability to change it, shut the [censored] up and change it for [censored] sakes.
I hate it when somehow the cursor is in the chat box during halfway through grinding or PVPing. I spam my shortcut keys only to find it displayed in my chat box and died.
This really sucks because instead of putting things on stack, NOTHING HAPPENS during lag. For example... I'm running away from a mob when I'm down some HP... I pop a pot and try to target myself for battle heal... enter lag.. I spam battle heal and nothing happens... the monster is still targeted, so instead I spam sleep.... incorrect target comes up in the console while the moster teleports up to me... I finally end up targeting him but what ends up happening was a bunch of "incorrect targets" for what should have been heals, and then no response at all for sleep.... a few seconds later... I died.
Instead of letting the client handle things like this, the client has to request every single action... and then wait for the server's reply before doing something else. Nothing goes on stack... nothing goes as planned... instead I die, lose my [censored], and then have the GMs tell me it's my fault.
You know what game offers this? WoW.... and that game sucks....
I really want to see these things handled client side... but I guess it would be too convenient.
I hate to say this, but...I agree with you. It doesn't seem like a very good design, since not only does it lead to those targetting issues you described, but it also requires more network traffic, introduces more delays in each action, and forces both the clients and the servers to do more processing. I can see a couple, very minor, benefits of this system, but it's really not what I would have gone with...
Also, training is a big pee-vee, very annoying tactics thats so out of wack in reward/loss compared to other PvP.
It has unfortunately been fixed.. to the big pleasure of farmer trains...
15 sec delay to pickup loot ... means you'll only get a drop form the last farmer to die...
On topic :
My biggest annoyance in L2 is how we are not heard.
We simply know the game better than NC does. But you can count on the half hand of Berek the number of times our advices have been listened to.
Hmm....
Automated GM responses!!! j/k
Nah I think my pet peeve has to be not enough undead mobs. Or mobs that are now labeled undead from C4 but don't have that actual attribute. :confused: Sometimes a bishop needs a place to hunt when he can't find a group. And now chant for solo!
solo! solo! solo! solo! :p
Actually ... handling the effects of actions server-side is good practice, since it minimizes cheating. Imagine if the people using you-know-what could tell the server "I hit Bhodosativa for 23723 damage." instead of "I attack Bhodosativa, do I hit and for how much damage?" ...
Adding a client-side action queue with the server retroactively deciding on the outcome as if the lag wasn't there is, of course, still a good idea, but it needs a lot of tricky programming server-side to ensure consistent results. It would thus increase server load instead of decreasing it.
Lag. Definitely lag. General "delay after click" lag (i.e. targetting a mob, using a skill, and realizing the game did not register the click and you still have something else targetted) and especially item lag. Pretty much nothing is as annoying for a nuker as sps not working - it is outright dangerous when you usually two-shot a mob, but suddenly sps triggers too late, you fire a non-sps nuke and the mob is in your face and stuns you.
There are so many things in the game which have been designed with players using sps/b-sps in mind. Green mobs two-shottable by nukers - but only using sps. Sleeping cloud has worse landing rate than standard sleep and is very dangerous to use when it fails on several mobs, but it works quite fine with sps. Debuffs like surrender to element and skills like root do not land very reliably if you do not use sps. Heals without sps heal for several hundred hp less and take far longer to cast - quite dangerous when a party member is getting clobbered. Yes, blessed sps make some skills overpowered in pvp - but at the same time, it seems as if quite a lot of the pve content has been balanced with players using shots in mind. So it is very dangerous when you expect them to work, but they suddenly do not trigger due to lag.
So - yes, lag is at the top of my personal "fix it NOW ****it" list.
1. Skills being accidently dragged off my shortcut bar. Usually happens in the middle of dire situations and annoys me so much that for a long time now I also keep my skills window open and slid almost off the screen as a back up. How hard would it be to make a toggle lock for this??? Sheesh!
2. People sitting on the steps and blocking walkways. I love to wade through the shops sometimes, but HATE being stuck on them! There is plenty of area in Giran for people to sit - can't they make it so the walkway areas are places you can't sit? Like make it physically impossible? Pretty please?
Peeve #1... Lack of GM support
Peeve #2... Lack of A grade helm recipes
peeve #3... any looser with 3 or more aco***** trailing him thinking he's hot [censored]
Peeve #4.... Lack of GM support (I know I said it already but it cannot be stressed enough)
My biggest pet peeves are people who be me for buffs or merely run up to me and "buffs". If you dont ask nicely I'm not giving it to you. And also beggars. I wonder if its because I'm a healer that I get asked alot by people for money. Well I'm sorry, I earn my adena by partying people and crafting and selling. its not that hard and they can **** well do it themselves! The worst are the ones who go 3k pls or 5k pls. Just go kill a few mobs and you'll have the adena.
This one is easy for me. The PVP imbalances between ranged and melee classes is beyond broken in this game.
Everyone is playing a nuker or archer. Every week we see less and less melee DD classes being played, except in the Olympiad where they have to play their main.
handling the effects of actions server-side is good practice, since it minimizes cheating. Imagine if the people using you-know-what could tell the server "I hit Bhodosativa for 23723 damage." instead of "I attack Bhodosativa, do I hit and for how much damage?"
I don't think you quite understand, though. That's not what is being suggested.
Currently, the system is more like...
Client: I have a mouse click at location X.
Server: Location X is a monster. You now have that monster targetted.
Client: I have a monster targetted. I click shortcut 3 2.
Server: You click shortcut 3 2. That shortcut is Twister.
Client: I'd like to start casting Twister at the monster at location X.
Server: The monster is no longer at location X. He is at location Y. Location Y is too far away.
Client: Location Y is too far away. I'd like to move closer.
What the player sees: "Target is too far." and his character takes a step forward.
This is what we're saying is a peeve, Akjosch. Waaaay too much is handled on the server. Wouldn't it be cleaner if instead it was...
Client: I have the monster at location X selected. I'm casting Twister.
Server: You start casting Twister at the monster.
What the player sees: casting animation.
The results of actions are, as always, decided server side...but do you see how many steps the current implimention uses just to cast a single spell?
Edit: In other words, it's not the effects of "actions" as a player sees them that should be client-side, it's all the minor steps involved to process an action.
Actually, clicking & targetting is done purely client-side from what I can gather from you-know-which sources. The client just sends one "attack this" or "use this skill on that mob" TCP packet to the server, which gets either granted ("ok, this is the effect of your attack/skill use") or not ("failed due to ..."). So, in fact, your second example is what is happening right now.
You want an example? While you're sitting, targetting someone generates just one TCP packet, as does un-targetting(*). Clicking somewhere else doesn't. Since you can't move anyway, your client checks that what you're clicked on isn't a valid target and doesn't bother with sending a "move me to ..." packet just to get it denied by the server. By extension, what is actually happening is more like:
Client: I target X
Server: Ok. Target aquired. *scribbles "Client Y targets X now" into his data*
Client: I use skill A
Server: Ok. The effects are: ... *updates his world data*
The problem stems from the fact this packets from the client might come out-of-order, or get processed out-of-order by different server threads. Since L2 uses TCP networking, where out-of-order packet arrival is not a problem (they get sorted in the "right" order on the server, even if it uses more resources and produces lag spikes as soon as even one packet arrives late or has to be resent), this can't be reason for the server not recognizing your targetting. So we've got a multi-threaded server (which are a b**ch to debug, by the way) which sometimes, under load, doesn't keep his threads synchronised.
Adding more "intelligence" to the client wouldn't accomplish much about this bug. The proper solution is to fix those so-called "race conditions" in the server, not apply half-arsed workarounds. On the other hand, it would make cheating that much more easier for you-know-which-program users, and we certainly don't want that, do we?
----------------------------
(*) In case you wonder: I just counted the packets here, but didn't actually look into what they're carrying. I can guess that pretty easily just by knowing a few dozen internet protocols by heart and having studied more game engine and network-related source code than I care to remember. No EULA violation were commited or needed to check the validity of my claims.
I hate to nitpick when you clearly appear to know what you're talking about, but...
Client: I target X
Server: Ok. Target aquired. *scribbles "Client Y targets X now" into his data*
Client: I use skill A
Server: Ok. The effects are: ... *updates his world data*
The "target aquired" step is one more than I had suggested. My suggestion was for the client to say "do X at target Y" rather than two seperate transmissions for "target Y // do X".
Maybe it's trivial, but it is cutting the necessary transmissions for that situation in half, which I see as a good thing. It also removes the problem of not being able to update your target during lag, which is what Bhodosativa was peeving.
I think we agree on what's happening now, but I'm not sure if we agree that's a good thing. One thing that I so agree with is
The proper solution is to fix those so-called "race conditions" in the server, not apply half-arsed workarounds.
My biggest beef is raid bosses that you need for quests which are constanlty killed by farmers. I had to sit and watch spawn locations for 17hrs on sunday to get the last raid boss I needed and 5 hours saturday for the first one luckily the 2nd and third where up when I went to them.
p.s. no i didn't sit at my computer waiting that long but I did have a toon logged in at those places and would check every hour or so
Targeting a mob/player hitting it then targeting the next one pressing /attack and hitting the first mob. Mostly annoing when pulling non-aggro mobs, also is anoing when it switches me to just killed corpse instead of attacking next mob.
I hate to nitpick when you clearly appear to know what you're talking about, but...
Client: I target X
Server: Ok. Target aquired. *scribbles "Client Y targets X now" into his data*
Client: I use skill A
Server: Ok. The effects are: ... *updates his world data*
The "target aquired" step is one more than I had suggested. My suggestion was for the client to say "do X at target Y" rather than two seperate transmissions for "target Y // do X".
Maybe it's trivial, but it is cutting the necessary transmissions for that situation in half, which I see as a good thing. It also removes the problem of not being able to update your target during lag, which is what Bhodosativa was peeving.
No, you're not cutting anything in half, at least not while fighting mobs. To illustrate, the current client request list for a (very short) fight is as follows:
Target X (... and send me the current monster HP and level)
Stun
Attack
... while your version would yield:
Send data for X
Stun X
Attack X
Same three packets, just a little more data sent from the client to the server in each but the first one.
In the end, it's a design decision, and the L2 team decided to minimize the amount of data the server gets from the client. I couldn't care less either way, but there are surely non-broadband users who do care. For them, the lag problems would only get worse, not better.
The sending HP and level is a very good point. That does, in fact, even out the number of transmissions. My mistake.
I disagree about slower-connection users, though. A change there would benefit them more, if anything, since it would spell the end of what Ledaa just described. ;)
press a ctrl to pvp and next press the windows button that minimises the screen: i end up dead every time.
I had that issue with counter strike.... So i took a screwdriver to my keyboard and popped the windows key right out of it's socket. Then threw the key away. :)
I had that issue with counter strike.... So i took a screwdriver to my keyboard and popped the windows key right out of it's socket. Then threw the [windows] key away. :)
Heh. That's a hardcore solution for sure. I'm a wimp and usually just remap the key to "Kanji" ... :)
Pobably not my biggest peeves to date, but these almost win on frequency alone:
1. Having to click to target. The number of times I've gone to select an agro mob only to start barreling headlong towards it...
2. "Target is too far" >_<
Oh yeah, I forgot the "Target is too far" bug. This annoys me to no end.
No, target is NOT too far, since when I try to use the skill again, it works, without me moving an inch. :confused:
1) Component lag that affects the entire server at once and that, apparently, I am personally responsible for. In other words, when SS/potions/shops pause for a few seconds/minutes while everything else continues.
2) WTB/WTS/WTT spam on shout. We have a trade channel dangit! It'll never happen, but I wish NC would classify the trade spam on the shout channel as an exploit of the comm system (it honestly is) and start suspending accounts :D
We've got two winners here. I love it (read: I hate it) when I pick up loot, run to the next mob and then my shots fire and a message appears "you picked up ### adena". But, yeah, NCSoft says it's our fault.
WTB/WTS chatter is friggin' annoying and, to those who do it (yes, I know some of you post here) it's counterproductive. You're forcing more and more to simply shut up shout in Giran. NCSoft really needs to make /ignore work on all channels.
you guys do know that the WTS/WTB has been going on since retail hit don't you? if so quit whining about it and move on and learn to accept it.
you guys do know that the WTS/WTB has been going on since retail hit don't you? if so quit whining about it and move on and learn to accept it.
1) Obviously the concept of a "pet peeve" is beyond you--it means "a recurring source of irritation". That fact that it's been around a long time justifies it as a peeve :p
2) Just because it's been done a long time doesn't make it right. Bots have been here at least as long, want me to stop reporting them?
Maybe I need to make an orc so I, too, may pound the incurably dense.