So, I had an experience over the weekend that got me thinking: how many people have had a valuable item in their hands (that someone dropped on death) and then actually returned it?
I recently came back to LII. My character is a 29 Palus Knight. The other night, when my character was level 27, I was grinding dire wolves outside Dion when all of a sudden I notice an object in the distance that doesn't look like the usual sort of thing. I get closer and I see it's a Brig Helm +3! I couldn't stop myself from grabbing it and then running over the hills, out of sight. No one saw me, my heart was beating, and the helm was mine.
Then, I start seeing Jaycan's !shouts about if anyone saw his helm. Some people responded, saying he'd never see it again, that people don't return items like that. At first I was thinking "haha, tough old world dude, anyone who dies outside of Dion doesn't deserve a Brig Helm +3." Blah blah blah. Jaycan's !shouts remained calm, but persistent. He offered to pay for it, said he really needed it. In my mind I started counting the millions I'd get for it in Giran's market... but I also started feeling really guilty. Even though no one know, not a soul, the fact of the matter was *I* knew.
Then I thought how lucky I was that SirElrohir had helped me out when he decided to leave Lionna. He gave me my Brig set and jewels. Could I really be so selfish that I'd steal myself a second Brig Helm +3, just to sell?
Long story short, I found Jaycan and quietly returned his helm to him. I refused any sort of payment, but he was persistent. Eventually I accepted 1 mil from him, reluctantly. He pointed out they often sell for 5-6 mil, so it was worth it to him.
Even before I relented and took his reward money I felt better. A lot better. I knew I'd given away millions but the guilt was gone. After I'd returned the helm I went hunting and we started chatting on pm. He insisted on giving me the mil (or he'd kill me he said XD). After that, the rest of the weekend was so cool. No more guilt plus I'd made a million adena I didn't expect to make just for, in the end, not giving in to greed.
So, there's my mini-saga from Saturday. I'm sure some of you all have had similar situations crop up. How did you handle it? And do you think I'm an idiot to have returned the helm? Do you think I should have refused the reward, even on pain of death? Do you agree with what I did? Just curious.
Btw, I'm not trying to make myself look good. The only person, imho, who comes out of this smelling like roses is Jaycan. He never flipped out on !shout, he didn't act all crazy when I approached him, and even after he had his helm back and I'd refused payment he politely insisted for several minutes that I take the reward, that he wanted me to have it. Imo, Jaycan demonstrated how to handle a tough moment in L2.
I think one of the real beauties of this game is how it ultimately shows the characters of individuals. Nothing about the game made you do what was right, that was all you.
it's nice to be nice. I'll return drops that I find unless I don't like the person or their clan. If they are in my party, I'll always return... but it is good to see people that haven't been corrupted by the greed in this game.
Heh Im that other guy that people just can't stand! The one who when people release to town yoinks the loot and walks away guilt free! It isn't the right thing to do but it is fun an the opposite of how I am IRL. In the real world I have found my fair share of wallets dropped money purses and all that good stuff and it has all been returned. But in the virtual world losing a helm isn't near as devastating as losing a CC or ID's. Game time is my time to relax let loose and do things I would other wise never think about doing.
Randomly kill younger people/players Steal items that knowingly do not belong to me! If there ever was guilt I cerntainly don't feel anyof it now ^_^\/
Heh Im that other guy that people just can't stand! The one who when people release to town yoinks the loot and walks away guilt free! It isn't the right thing to do but it is fun an the opposite of how I am IRL. In the real world I have found my fair share of wallets dropped money purses and all that good stuff and it has all been returned. But in the virtual world losing a helm isn't near as devastating as losing a CC or ID's. Game time is my time to relax let loose and do things I would other wise never think about doing.
Randomly kill younger people/players Steal items that knowingly do not belong to me! If there ever was guilt I cerntainly don't feel anyof it now ^_^\/
Hehe XD
Even though you do play differently than me, I respect your honesty!
+1 rec to OP! Yes, if i can identify the owner i always return it.
Opinion: The same person is at the keyboard as lives in rl. How you play the game shows the kind of person you really are. In rl you may 'pretend' to be good, you may even believe it yourself and one respondent above seems to, but it is the social reputation effects of your actions that make you do right, not the purity of your heart.
If you are good ingame, then I will believe you are a good person in rl. If you scam ingame, it is the real you.
tell that to the farmers (ethnicity unknown) who took my duals/sally suit/graphetes bow when "lag" caused me to die.
tell that to the farmers who took my full doom suit when "lag" again caused me to die from the mobs.
I think to myself why would I want to keep something from others when they most likely really need it. I have players approach me with a rez and if I have dropped will wait until I can pick up myself. Or send me a trade window and then give the item back to me. I see your point though about when others do not know who picked it up.
It is sad though when I do hear the newer players shouting to have things returned to them and no one responds. Or laughs at their pitiful requests. That kind of attitude will discourage players of wanting to continue with the game. What will they do when they lose 15mil in equipment? Or spend 20 mil in materials just to see it "fail". We finally talked a fellow player back to the game over the "failed" issue.
Even though it is a "game" there are live players behind those screens.
**** Lionna is expensive >.> that helmet is worth a bit over 1mil on Teon ^^
It greatly depends on the person if I would return an item or not. Especially if it's an enemy then returning stuff is a big no no :)
currently my clan is at war, and I really don't like the people we are warring, but if I came across one of them red and killed him. I'd more than likely give back the drop faster than some other clan... It's funny... you get to know your enemy pretty well during a war, and I respect a lot of them... I guess there are certain members I wouldn't give drops back to, but I know I would return their leaders gear if he dropped.
was in DV once, on Lionna, and since i am in Aurorea Alliance, we are ofcourse at war with mirage. Well i came across a dead mirage guy, and i saw next to him his Full Plate helmet, and the mob that had killed him. Well, i thought, lets be a gentlemen and give it back, the guy is prob sad enough already, just be cool about it. SO i give it back to the guy, he says thanks, and 5 min later a huge mirage zerg of 9 people comes to kill me, including the guy i gave the helm back to.
I dont give drops back to enemy clans anymore, ever.
was in DV once, on Lionna, and since i am in Aurorea Alliance, we are ofcourse at war with mirage. Well i came across a dead mirage guy, and i saw next to him his Full Plate helmet, and the mob that had killed him. Well, i thought, lets be a gentlemen and give it back, the guy is prob sad enough already, just be cool about it. SO i give it back to the guy, he says thanks, and 5 min later a huge mirage zerg of 9 people comes to kill me, including the guy i gave the helm back to.
I dont give drops back to enemy clans anymore, ever.
Ouch! I don't blame you. An experience like that would change me, too, I think.
But, yeah, in the case I described I didn't know the guy, only that he'd lost his helmet, I definitely had it, and he was calmly asking on shout for it back. Since I had nothing against him my conscious wouldn't let me keep it. If it was an enemy's drop...? Hard to say what I would do, but if something had happened to me like what you described, then no, I wouldn't return it, at least not to THOSE enemies. XD
Dude you should have kept it, i would have, and then i woulda pm'd the guy offering to sell it back over the market value. Finders keepers baby, jerks for life.
was in DV once, on Lionna, and since i am in Aurorea Alliance, we are ofcourse at war with mirage. Well i came across a dead mirage guy, and i saw next to him his Full Plate helmet, and the mob that had killed him. Well, i thought, lets be a gentlemen and give it back, the guy is prob sad enough already, just be cool about it. SO i give it back to the guy, he says thanks, and 5 min later a huge mirage zerg of 9 people comes to kill me, including the guy i gave the helm back to.
I dont give drops back to enemy clans anymore, ever.
Well... I'd return it to the clan leader. Not the player... more of a hassle for them. I wouldn't blame the guy for comeing back to kill you... I'm suprised u didn't expect it...
Only reason i didnt expect it is cause i returned the item. Thought he might be chill with a enemy being there, guess not though, i should have expected it though, your right.
You shoula picked up the helmet, rez'd him, then pk'd him, dropped the helmet on his corpse then /socialdance, pick it up again and SoE and sell it. Funny thing is ive actually done this before, except with a strider bugle not a helmet. Also i mounted it then used an SoE, for extra insulting effect.
You shoula picked up the helmet, rez'd him, then pk'd him, dropped the helmet on his corpse then /socialdance, pick it up again and SoE and sell it. Funny thing is ive actually done this before, except with a strider bugle not a helmet. Also i mounted it then used an SoE, for extra insulting effect.
I would have given it back, but then again 5 mill isn't going to buy me much at my level. If I were a sole level 25 char again though, I would probably keep it.
I think one of the real beauties of this game is how it ultimately shows the characters of individuals. Nothing about the game made you do what was right, that was all you.
Quoted for truth!
Automated characters are mobs, drops are keepers.
+1 rec to OP! Yes, if i can identify the owner i always return it.
Opinion: The same person is at the keyboard as lives in rl. How you play the game shows the kind of person you really are. In rl you may 'pretend' to be good, you may even believe it yourself and one respondent above seems to, but it is the social reputation effects of your actions that make you do right, not the purity of your heart.
If you are good ingame, then I will believe you are a good person in rl. If you scam ingame, it is the real you.
Like I said, that's an opinion.
I agree.
I know a lot of people who claim to be "social" in RL but total jerks ingame. However, I know not one who is antisocial in RL (probably wont tell me anyway ^^) and acts good ingame.
There is no punishment system ingame for stealing and scamming. So I dare to assume that ingame thieves only don't think in the same patterns in RL because punishment is a factor there.
Which leaves the group of people like the OP as the people with an actual conscience... of which L2 could use a lot more. :)
The good feeling in one heart is worth more than a +3 brig helm. People who don't agree with me won't understand it anyway, so save your breath.
Opinion: The same person is at the keyboard as lives in rl. How you play the game shows the kind of person you really are. In rl you may 'pretend' to be good, you may even believe it yourself and one respondent above seems to, but it is the social reputation effects of your actions that make you do right, not the purity of your heart.
If you are good ingame, then I will believe you are a good person in rl. If you scam ingame, it is the real you.
Like I said, that's an opinion.
I agree 100%. Well, maybe 95%, LOL.
If a RL enemy was in need of my help, I would help them. Even if I knew they'd ridicule me or do something mean to me in the future, I'd help them.
But in game, I would never help my enemy or return items they dropped. I'm not in the same ally as Veansa, but I have the same enemies and as you can see, they are not high calibur people. I know if I dropped something and they came across it, not only would they not return it, but they'd post a thread on those other forums just to say "Haha! Thanks for the Nightmare Helm!" So while my first inclination would be to return their stuff, knowing how they are, I would not. I think in RL if you help your enemies, that makes an impression on them, but in game, for some reason it doesn't.
You shoula picked up the helmet, rez'd him, then pk'd him, dropped the helmet on his corpse then /socialdance, pick it up again and SoE and sell it. Funny thing is ive actually done this before, except with a strider bugle not a helmet. Also i mounted it then used an SoE, for extra insulting effect.
Why am I not suprised to see you write this?
Nvm eh?
To the OP I salute you. In my optinion you make the game better especially as this kind of action would either make you friends that way or you become a respected enemy in the future.
In PvP I rather see my enemy in full gear. Then the both of us can fight with honour.
The good feeling in one heart is worth more than a +3 brig helm. People who don't agree with me won't understand it anyway, so save your breath.
Cal
I obviously agree with that. It's sort of like that old saying, the one that goes something like: "the journey is not just the destination, but what you do along the way."
Generally speaking I will snag the dropped item and hang out near the item location for a bit waiting for the whisper commentary. if it's a request to get it back I will give it to them, if it's leet noob crap I will generally walk away with my new found item conscience free. I have had cases where returning the item was rewarded with accusations of taking other items, and other instances where the insults came after teh item was returned shrug...
On the other hand like someone said previously I wouldn't even concider giving back items to "automated players" and have occasionally generated the drop in those situations...killing one AI for drops is as good as killing any other AI for drops.
Being the bad guy is fun. Its the same with actors they always enjoy playing the role of villian more then when they play the hero. When i play lineage2 i really dont give a hoot what other people think, i play for me, i am my first priority. Most of the time if i dont know who the item belonged to then i would keep it, if i could get away with it. If i did know the person and i considered him/her a friend then yeh i would return it. I dont really care if i took an item belonging to a power clan or alliance, because if they wanna do something about me they have to face me in pvp, and im confident most of the time in my abilities to defend myself so i dont fear the consequences of my actions. If i get attacked 1v1 then if i lose fair game to the other guy, but if its a zerg then that makes them look like losers. That doesnt make me a bad person in real life and its a stupid assumption for people to make, show me some evidence that when people play different roles in a game it actually correlates to their real life behaviour. I pk people in-game, doesnt mean im gunna grab a knife and stab some people up in the street. Its a game, its totally seperate from real life. If the guy who i pvp with goes and crys irl then thats his personality defect not mine.
My opinions may be unpopular and unwelcome, but thats how it is for me, and alot of others that i know.
If I can find who dropped the item, yeah I generally give it back. The exception is of course farmers, thay have more stuff than they need anyway. But a legit player, yeah I would give them their gear back if I could find them.
I think one of the real beauties of this game is how it ultimately shows the characters of individuals. Nothing about the game made you do what was right, that was all you.
Quoted for truth!
5 stars for you, Mr. OP. This kind of behavior is always very popular with chicks. This reminds me of a TRUE story :
I was seeing this really hot black chick. One beautifull summer day, I invited her for a nice BBQ. She said ok so we headed on to the grocery store to get some nice cuts of meat, and maybe a salad to toss...
We buy some nice steaks, and a few more items, so we head out to the cash register to pay our items. The lady in front of us had a lot of stuff, so she loaded her bags, and went away as the cashier was ringing up our items.
BUT BEHOLD ! My eagle eye spots a bag the lady forgot. So I hastely handed over more than enough money to pay for our stuff, and told her I'd be right back.
And I grab the forgotten bag and rush towards the lady, sneaking a peak in the heavy bag all the while (**** ! Meat, cheese, nice loot bag) but I continue outside and run up to the woman (it was a quest by now...). She was a bit startled when she saw me running up to her, but when I handed her her bag and explained she had forgotten it, she smiled, looked into the bag, then she hugged me.
I could just picture the "Level up" over my head. As I headed back to my date, with a satisfied smile, I saw her coming out of the store. She asked me if I had found the woman, and then a car passed by, honked, and a woman waved with alarge smile on her face. My friend turned to me, she smiled, and took my hand to head back home.
We had a nice BBQ, a nice evening, and needless to say I got some hot chocolate for desert.
Last night I set up a buy shop for the letter S and R. Got up in the morning to an email asking can I please get my 2 R's back. At first I was like hell no you sold them thier mine now.
But then I looked at my buy shop and realised I had inverted the quantity and price. So it looked like I was scamming.
WTB 35,000 R's for 11 adena and 110,000 S's for 8 adena.
I felt bad and couldn't believe I had done that. So I gave him back his 2 R's. I'm sure someone probably has a ss of me doing that calling me a scammer.
Generally speaking I will snag the dropped item and hang out near the item location for a bit waiting for the whisper commentary. if it's a request to get it back I will give it to them, if it's leet noob crap I will generally walk away with my new found item conscience free. I have had cases where returning the item was rewarded with accusations of taking other items, and other instances where the insults came after teh item was returned shrug...
On the other hand like someone said previously I wouldn't even concider giving back items to "automated players" and have occasionally generated the drop in those situations...killing one AI for drops is as good as killing any other AI for drops.
That's how I feel about it also. If they're going to be nice about it and not be a ******** more then likely they'll get what they dropped back. Otherwise.. I just gained some goodies. :D
when i find its i usually shout if anyone dropped something, if they cant tell me what it was i usually keep and go on my merry way. (the few times i did find something i was traveling from point a to point b so i didnt hang around)
I think one of the real beauties of this game is how it ultimately shows the characters of individuals. Nothing about the game made you do what was right, that was all you.
Quoted for truth!
5 stars for you, Mr. OP. This kind of behavior is always very popular with chicks. This reminds me of a TRUE story :
I was seeing this really hot black chick. One beautifull summer day, I invited her for a nice BBQ. She said ok so we headed on to the grocery store to get some nice cuts of meat, and maybe a salad to toss...
We buy some nice steaks, and a few more items, so we head out to the cash register to pay our items. The lady in front of us had a lot of stuff, so she loaded her bags, and went away as the cashier was ringing up our items.
BUT BEHOLD ! My eagle eye spots a bag the lady forgot. So I hastely handed over more than enough money to pay for our stuff, and told her I'd be right back.
And I grab the forgotten bag and rush towards the lady, sneaking a peak in the heavy bag all the while (**** ! Meat, cheese, nice loot bag) but I continue outside and run up to the woman (it was a quest by now...). She was a bit startled when she saw me running up to her, but when I handed her her bag and explained she had forgotten it, she smiled, looked into the bag, then she hugged me.
I could just picture the "Level up" over my head. As I headed back to my date, with a satisfied smile, I saw her coming out of the store. She asked me if I had found the woman, and then a car passed by, honked, and a woman waved with alarge smile on her face. My friend turned to me, she smiled, and took my hand to head back home.
We had a nice BBQ, a nice evening, and needless to say I got some hot chocolate for desert.
Have Fun ! ™
BoardPK
Official Board Devil
Haha! Great story.
I aggro'd a State Police officer this morning (cons red to me) when I ran a yellow light. I didn't have any soul shouts or pots on me (though in the second case that is a good thing I am sure) so I realized I would have to feign death to have any hope of escape. He asked me what a yellow light meant. I said it means caution. He said no, it means stop. So, I used a Scroll of Disverisimilitude and said, why yes, yellow does mean stop; thank-you for teaching me that, I apologize, sir! The mob ending up giving up on me and returned to his spawn point. I SOE'd to work without losing any adena!
No need to be nice to people who try to harm you. It's totally ok and imho necessary to show evildoers that their deeds have consequences.
well the guy got his bw back so that shows im not heartless
although if he had a +4 bw top you can bet your *** he woulda got my +3
i have done that...gave the person that doped and lesser + then what he droped(only to someone i didn't like) everyone else got their full OEd gear back....and once it was a +8 galive :O
I aggro'd a State Police officer this morning (cons red to me) when I ran a yellow light. I didn't have any soul shouts or pots on me (though in the second case that is a good thing I am sure) so I realized I would have to feign death to have any hope of escape. He asked me what a yellow light meant. I said it means caution. He said no, it means stop. So, I used a Scroll of Disverisimilitude and said, why yes, yellow does mean stop; thank-you for teaching me that, I apologize, sir! The mob ending up giving up on me and returned to his spawn point. I SOE'd to work without losing any adena!
Should have used BSOE (afterburner). ;)
And ya that was a great story DM. To all those leet ***** kids in their parents basement: In your face! ^^
I look at it like this, any good deed you do may be forgotten a few minutes later, but will come back to you tenfold. Any bad deed will follow you for the rest of your life.
Most people tend to remember the bad things that happen to them. You remember a bad beat in Poker far longer than you remember the bluff that won.
I will ALWAYS return the item that is dropped due to mob death(unless you are a farmer, or sitting with a farmer party in a catacomb). Reds dont get thier gear back, there is a reason its called Karma.
What if the guy went red killing the farmers, and then got ganked and dropped, you would then not return it?
If someone is red that means nothing to me unless i know what they are red for. When you are red it does not mean you randomly pk'd some poor lvl 1 scrub, why you noobs always think that i dont know, but its the thing in-game which ****** me off the most.
PKing bots is a waste of time and effort. They dont care. So if thats what you are doing, you deserve to die and lose gear. But you know as well as I do, that "I PK'd bots!" line is more often than not, false. I dont go red hunting until they've killed one of my clannies or allymates.
Its not a waste of time, its that mentality which allows them to rule over us. I go to my hunting grounds and i see a bot there, np for me i pk them and hunt away and work off the karma. They DO NOT come back to that spot again, most the time they log out and never return or they stay dead on the floor for hours sometimes days. If some jerk then comes up to me and thinks hes cool for attacking me it seriously ****** me off so i then end up with even more karma to work off. Pking bots actually does work, most of the time they log off before you get to finish the kills, so for some reason they dont actually like dieing.
I remember people that have been nice and returned drops for a long long time. I remember someone that gave me back my helm in DVC when my group left me for dead and PR'd out. That was back in C2 or something. I also remember the people that have stolen things for just as long too. I guess it all depends no how you want to be remembered.
When I play my bishop it's just not in my nature to steal, or even talk smack. The dwarf and other alts though, it's so very on.