I was just looking how it was on other servers. In my server (Teon) Dawn has won every time since competition was started.
I was kinda shocked to see that situation in every server is the same, Dawn wins roughly 499-1 (or more if Festivals are done).
Is this sick joke or anything?
I thought this was meant to be a *competition*.
Currently, as it stands, it's nothing more than extra income with bonuses like teleports every other week.
I think allowing money subcription to Dawn side is bad mistake. Approval tickets, I don't know how many can be produced but I get this feeling that it's not much.
Please, give us an official response if anything will be done. I, at least, want competition. Wouldn't mind if I was on losing side sometimes (admit, I'm on Dawn currently as every sane player).
Couldnt agree more.
Due to that stupid 50k-dawn buy-in , we are missing the competition. I also play on Teon, and I buy a Dawn ticket too, but what else can I do, as everyone does it.
Remove the 50K ticket and give us back the main content of C3, an exciting competition
Yes that was the idea I had, remove pay-to-join totally. To leave it floating around (even if very expensive) means people still go for Dawn.
I cannot say how many Approval tickets can be produced but if production output is a lot, they would need to be removed as well.
Anyway, "competition" as it is now, is totally nonexistant. Severely limiting Dawn access is way to go.
One Castle can produce 40x300=12000 Dawn certificates per 1 competition cycle(atleast it could in C3, havent asked if they cut the production but I doubt it). Now then, 1 Castle can produce enough certificates for about the whole server so even if you removed the 50k price on the Priest, people could still join Dawn, only difference being that they would be paying the Castle lords instead.
Well it was the same thing on kain server, till a clan decided to go for dusk, and they made it...yep only 1 clan (big zerk but still) against all the server...
If you want dusk to win, stop whining, register for dusk, contribute seal stones and do the festival!
The reason why dawn always wins is because rival allies own castles, so they don't want to get the penalties that dusk imposes on their own castle.
Removing the pay ticket or the certificate will not solve it. There is a lot more to do to make this competition real.
The festival suposed to be a competition at all level (with the categories) and in fact it's just the higher level that control it with sub/alts because they have the most overenchanted weapons.
And the seals stone participation is screwed with farmers.
I dont have one solution but this is much more complicated than just remove the buy ticket and certificates; this will just be bad for small clan/ally cause the big ones, who generaly have castles, will still control it and make sure dawn win.
we've had some competitive festivals on Hindemith but now that competitive and able clan/alliance owns a castle now and nobody has the balls to fight for Dusk like they did. Whats funny is that they ****** of A LOT of farmers, lol.
This is old... and has been heavily discussed long time ago.
Just like with legacy of insolence: they dont respond wich means nothing will be done anytime soon. (ever?)
Removing the pay ticket or the certificate will not solve it. There is a lot more to do to make this competition real.
The festival suposed to be a competition at all level (with the categories) and in fact it's just the higher level that control it with sub/alts because they have the most overenchanted weapons.
And the seals stone participation is screwed with farmers.
I dont have one solution but this is much more complicated than just remove the buy ticket and certificates; this will just be bad for small clan/ally cause the big ones, who generaly have castles, will still control it and make sure dawn win.
Feanorr
Make it so that one character per account can participate in the Festival only. Then make it so that once the character has participated (on subclass or not) it cannot participate in a different section of the competition for that period.
This would allow the lower level players on the server to have more influence over the competition and allow for real effort to be put into the festivals. True, the subclasses that could be used might hurt some of the mid level festivals, but if that's so it can always be changed as well.
The problem with the whole thing is, there are such nasty penalties if you are on the losing side that no one wants to be on it. It ruins all sieges plans for that week if you lose and makes hunting annoying and very disadvantageous if you are in war with someone who is on the Dawn side.
For the system to work, Dusk would have to heavily outnumber Dawn all the time, but I doubt it will. Seeing as most castles are owned by one alliance, an alliance which is 200 or so people. You're already fighting 1200 or more Dawn people. These people have gear, money from the castle and the ability to take castles so surely they can rack up a good festival score. The 2000 sub 52 players on the Dusk side wont really be able to help the higher level Dusk players do much towards winning the competition.
I think if they reduced the penalties for losing it would then be better to remove the buy in for Dawn. It's a bad idea to have so many without a castle fall further and further behind those with a castle.
A couple months ago Dusk ninja'ed a win on Gustin. They waited until everybody who went dawn got complacent and stopped doing festivals then they won them all at the last minute (with scores like 100 points :p).
There is actually a few reasons why no one actually desires to see this as a competition. Though I shall focus only one one apsect of the problem which I consider to be the fundamental problem.
The losing side gets a 20 minute highly negative buff which greatly lowers either casting speed or attack speed. No one wants to play with such a possibility because it makes the game unfun for them for a whole week if they lose. In point of fact, one could almost surmise that people are paying 50,000 adena in order not to be given this negative buff. And why should they receive it? Why should their week become miserable just because they lost a silly competition.
Adding to a competition some element which punishes the losers as well as awards the winners should significantly skew the numbers of each side, especially when no person in particular is likely to be able to make a large difference in the outcome of the competition; which is exactly what we have seen.
Now if the only result of being on the losing side was not being able to enter the catacombs or necopli for a week, instead of what we have now, then I am sure the number of people going dusk would increase. And in the case where people are fighting for castle control, and being on the offensive side of a siege, where you can respawn two towns away upon dying, and will be lamost guaranteed to have this negative buff byt he time you get back to the siege field, well it is again no wonder that no one goes dusk.
If you want dusk to win, stop whining, register for dusk, contribute seal stones and do the festival!
Phaere was not whining, merely stating (the obvious) that on most servers the "competition" is not a competition at all. Everyone can join one side, which ensures that side will win, which ensures that everyone gets the benefits and nobody gets the penalties...so everyone does join that side.
It's been a competition a couple (rare) times on Hindemith. When it does come down to actually competing, it's a blast. It's a real shame it's not always like that...
In my opinion there is a simple solution to bring some competition into the Seven Signs system:
Make an approval ticket the only way to join Dawn for all characters that are not members of a castle owning clan.
Reduce the number of approval tickets each castle can produce per cycle to 300.
Wouldn't really add any competition, it would only screw over the medium and lower players royally. And they would have no chance whatsoever at winning the competition.
What would need to be done is to make Dusk and Dawn true sides, make it so that castle lords can be revolutionaries too. This would mean actual sides can battle eachother.
Wouldn't really add any competition, it would only screw over the medium and lower players royally. And they would have no chance whatsoever at winning the competition.
If I understand you correctly you assume that Dusk would have no chance of winning? Don't you think the Chinese "community" that inhabits most of the catacombs, would at least make some effort to win the competition? And is there no strong alliance on your server that doesn't hold a castle? I'd be more worried about Dawn in the scenario I suggested, to be honest.
What would need to be done is to make Dusk and Dawn true sides, make it so that castle lords can be revolutionaries too. This would mean actual sides can battle eachother.
That's another possibility but it doesn't force people to start a competiton. The whole server could still somehow "agree" to let Dusk or Dawn win (until some ally starts a surprise takeover on the other side). Also if both castle owners and non-castle owners can join either side then the Seven Signs competiton has nothing to do with castle ownership anymore and Seal of Strife makes absolutely no sense.
The "Chinese community" as you said, sells sealstones to private buyshops more than they do turn in them for AA so they're not actually affecting the outcome that much. The people buying sealstones in mass quantities(I included) however influence it, and many of us have ties to Dawn. Not all sellshops with tens of millions of AA are farmer shops, many of them are alts that are just named randomly.
Also, the Festivals are one of the biggest point makers for the competition so the strongest clans will always have a say in the competition. And as they most often own castles they will fight for Dawn.
There is actually a few reasons why no one actually desires to see this as a competition. Though I shall focus only one one apsect of the problem which I consider to be the fundamental problem.
The losing side gets a 20 minute highly negative buff which greatly lowers either casting speed or attack speed. No one wants to play with such a possibility because it makes the game unfun for them for a whole week if they lose. In point of fact, one could almost surmise that people are paying 50,000 adena in order not to be given this negative buff. And why should they receive it? Why should their week become miserable just because they lost a silly competition.
Adding to a competition some element which punishes the losers as well as awards the winners should significantly skew the numbers of each side, especially when no person in particular is likely to be able to make a large difference in the outcome of the competition; which is exactly what we have seen.
Now if the only result of being on the losing side was not being able to enter the catacombs or necopli for a week, instead of what we have now, then I am sure the number of people going dusk would increase. And in the case where people are fighting for castle control, and being on the offensive side of a siege, where you can respawn two towns away upon dying, and will be lamost guaranteed to have this negative buff byt he time you get back to the siege field, well it is again no wonder that no one goes dusk.
Correct. The flaw in the competition is the debuff and severe disadvantages one faces from being on the losing side. There are enough advantages the winners gain over the losers to make it worthwhile without adding the annoying debuffs and castle siege hassles.
I'm sure many more people would risk their chance of hunting in a Catacomb or Necropolis in order to enjoy the competition. Although they'd also lose Mammon access for a week, this isn't usually a problem as more often than not someone has a friend on the other side to fix this.
There have to be consequences and reasons to fight, else it becomes a pointless competition where it doesn't matter who wins or loses. But just give the winners the amazing advantages they gain from it and leave the losers unable to access those things. Making hunting even harder for the losers and sieges extremely difficult doesn't make it fun.
all in all people CANNOT blame the system. The only ones to blame are the ******* that are too afraid to be competetive and MAKE it a competition. This game is VERY community controlled, its up to the players, not NC Soft. However if I could I would TOTALLY change the system as to FORCE people to compete because I realize most NA server population are *******.
The "Chinese community" as you said, sells sealstones to private buyshops more than they do turn in them for AA so they're not actually affecting the outcome that much.
I didn't say they have any influence on the competition now. I was talking about the efforts they might make in the scenario I suggested (Which would mean no catacombs for them every second week if Dawn wins).
Also, the Festivals are one of the biggest point makers for the competition so the strongest clans will always have a say in the competition. And as they most often own castles they will fight for Dawn.
I agree that the strongest clans will always have a huge influence on the competiton because of the festivals. But there are also many strong clans that don't hold a castle.
A Dusk Priest?! Where did you find one? As far as I've seen, they've got some nice cleavage and such and definetely look female to me >.> Or are they just playing dress up and thats why most people shun em after they learn the truth the hard way? :o
the system needs to be changed a bit i agree. the fact that i can go up to the dawn priest and sign up for only 50k, and my alts under 40 for free just makes it too easy.
Now the penatlies are harsh for a reason, you don't ever wana get them, which means your gona do whats ever in your power to not get it/screw over other people for kicks.
alliances need to grow some courage and start doen dusk, but like mentioned before, most alliances who are strong enough to oppose anyone already own castles and are dawn. so if you want more competition between the signs, your going to need more alliances with teh capabilities to opose each other.
now one thing that happend on gustin which was kinda funny, was dusk did win, only because dawn was nieve and didn't care "someone else will take care of it" was the common thought, thats usual what i think. so if a group of people really wanted to organize for it, they could do it.
all in all people CANNOT blame the system. The only ones to blame are the ******* that are too afraid to be competetive and MAKE it a competition. This game is VERY community controlled, its up to the players, not NC Soft. However if I could I would TOTALLY change the system as to FORCE people to compete because I realize most NA server population are *******.
I stopped reading after I read this post, I don't think a more true statement has ever been made.
all in all people CANNOT blame the system. The only ones to blame are the ******* that are too afraid to be competetive and MAKE it a competition. This game is VERY community controlled, its up to the players, not NC Soft. However if I could I would TOTALLY change the system as to FORCE people to compete because I realize most NA server population are *******.
I agree, get rid of the certificates to join Dawn. Lets get an actual compatition going. I thought about that when I bought my dawn cert.
Why would they allow any if so many to be produced? Dusk has had 3 points since I don't know when. They will never win under the current system. Basicly the only propose 7 signs serves is to give us Mammon every other week and make castle harder to siege. Also every other week all taxes go to 25%...
I thought 7 signes sucked when it was put in place, it still does because it makes no sence and no one competes.
all in all people CANNOT blame the system. The only ones to blame are the ******* that are too afraid to be competetive and MAKE it a competition. This game is VERY community controlled, its up to the players, not NC Soft. However if I could I would TOTALLY change the system as to FORCE people to compete because I realize most NA server population are *******.