Warm rays of sunshine are finally upon us.
Remember to keep healthy throughout the change in season!
Meanwhile, here are the planned Chronicle 5 updates for the test server.
Planned implemation date is May 31st 2006.
Territorial Changes
A new territory along with new hunting areas and dungeons have been added in the Elmore area
Fire-Farmers Village has been added
Orc Castle has been added (conquer-type clan hall)
A new dungeon Fate of the Empire has been added
NPC-related Changes
Frintessa, a boss-type raid monster has been added
The AI and reward for party-type monsters have been increased
There has been a revisal of all monsters throughout Aden (we've clarified the distinctions between solo-type and group-type monsters)
New monsters and lvl80-100 raid monsters have been added in the Elmore area
Guard NPCs at all towns have been strengthened
You are now able to check the spawn status of raid monsters at the Adventurer's Guild NPC at each town.
Clan-related Changes
Clan rankings based on attributions to clan have been added
Penalty for leaving clan has been re-adjusted; from 5 days to 3 days with XP deduction.
Olympiad-realted Changes
Participation requirement for Same-class competition has been reduced from 5 people to 3.
Participation requirement for all-class competition has been increased from 5 people to 7.
A Rock,Paper,Scissor rule has been added. If the participant decides that s/he is unable to beat the opposition, s/he may choose to activate RPS.
If a noblesse, after having signed up for Olympiad, is found to be disconnected or on his/her subclass for an undefinable reason, that player will be considered to have surrendered and will be subjected to a 30% point penalty.
Players are still able to cancel an application through regular procedure through the NPC.
Soloing-related Changes
HP/MP/CP regeneration is faster under trees, in grass fields and near rivers.
Treasure Boxes now store various potions.
"Potion of Courage" has been added
"Potion of Magical Power" has been added
"Mana Potion" has been added
Skill and Special Ability Related Changes
The effect of Acumen SA has been slightly reduced
The effect of Magic Power SA has been increased
Shield defense percentage against magical attacks has been increased
Crt.Root and Crt.Slow have been added to daggers
Crystal Dagger Crt.Poison -> Crt.Slow
Kris BackBlow -> Crt.Root
Demon Sword Crt.Poison -> Crt.Slow
Bloody Orchid BackBlow -> Crt.Root
Soul Separator Crt.Poison -> Crt.Slow
Angel Slayer HP Drain -> Crt.Root
Creation costs for BSPS have been increased by 1.5 times
The effect of the 3rd class passive skill Wisdom has been increased
The amount of damage relegated through Necromancer's Transfer Pain has been decreased by 1/2
The bug where Shield Stun was not being broken by magical attacks has been fixed
The MP cost of Curse Deathlink has been increased
Magical Critical damage has been reduced from about x4 to approximately x2
Wild Magic now increases movement speed as well as Magic Crit rate
Refresh rate on Summon CP Potion has been greatly reduced
The effect of Chant of Victory on abilities of magical nature have been reduced
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mp pots ??
emp pots ??
[autocensored], [autocensored] and [autocensored] !!!
Territorial Changes
A new territory along with new hunting areas and dungeons have been added in the Elmore area
Fire-Farmers Village has been added
Orc Castle has been added (conquer-type clan hall)
A new dungeon Fate of the Empire has been added
All good imo
NPC-related Changes
Frintessa, a boss-type raid monster has been added
The AI and reward for party-type monsters have been increased
There has been a revisal of all monsters throughout Aden (we've clarified the distinctions between solo-type and group-type monsters)
New monsters and lvl80-100 raid monsters have been added in the Elmore area
Guard NPCs at all towns have been strengthened
You are now able to check the spawn status of raid monsters at the Adventurer's Guild NPC at each town.
The RB status checking sucks, otherwise not bad
Clan-related Changes
Clan rankings based on attributions to clan have been added
Penalty for leaving clan has been re-adjusted; from 5 days to 3 days with XP deduction.
Always a +++ if clans get something more
Olympiad-realted Changes
Participation requirement for Same-class competition has been reduced from 5 people to 3.
Participation requirement for all-class competition has been increased from 5 people to 7.
A Rock,Paper,Scissor rule has been added. If the participant decides that s/he is unable to beat the opposition, s/he may choose to activate RPS.
If a noblesse, after having signed up for Olympiad, is found to be disconnected or on his/her subclass for an undefinable reason, that player will be considered to have surrendered and will be subjected to a 30% point penalty.
Players are still able to cancel an application through regular procedure through the NPC.
RPS, LOL?
Soloing-related Changes
HP/MP/CP regeneration is faster under trees, in grass fields and near rivers.
Treasure Boxes now store various potions.
"Potion of Courage" has been added
"Potion of Magical Power" has been added
"Mana Potion" has been added
Mana pots, Emp pots.... yea right, really hope they aint serious
Skill and Special Ability Related Changes
The effect of Acumen SA has been slightly reduced
The effect of Magic Power SA has been increased
Shield defense percentage against magical attacks has been increased
Crt.Root and Crt.Slow have been added to daggers
Crystal Dagger Crt.Poison -> Crt.Slow
Kris BackBlow -> Crt.Root
Demon Sword Crt.Poison -> Crt.Slow
Bloody Orchid BackBlow -> Crt.Root
Soul Separator Crt.Poison -> Crt.Slow
Angel Slayer HP Drain -> Crt.Root
Creation costs for BSPS have been increased by 1.5 times
The effect of the 3rd class passive skill Wisdom has been increased
The amount of damage relegated through Necromancer's Transfer Pain has been decreased by 1/2
The bug where Shield Stun was not being broken by magical attacks has been fixed
The MP cost of Curse Deathlink has been increased
Magical Critical damage has been reduced from about x4 to approximately x2
Wild Magic now increases movement speed as well as Magic Crit rate
Refresh rate on Summon CP Potion has been greatly reduced
The effect of Chant of Victory on abilities of magical nature have been reduced
I like the raidboss check status, boss farmers have alts at most major bosses as it is anyways, at least this means players can confront the farmers at the boss (would be fun to get every major alliance on the server together and make sure these farmers couldn't get a raidboss all day long =)
There is a far more interesting way to lower the power of Transfer Pain and make it more down to play skill, both from the player with the skill and the players fighting him.
Some of those changes are appealing, some are very odd. Why add yet more runspeed via Wild Magic? As if we don't have enough already.
It wont help the melee's that much either, and adding Mana Potions and Empower Potions aren't exactly going to help!
The Vortex nukes are still godlike and 3rd profession Nukers would still win against almost everyone :)
looks like they are trying to balance meelee vs ranged, crit root will do good work against archers
but hey, lvl 80-100 raid bosses?! hope they will also add RBs resist/weakness or its quite useless
If they'd actually increase the price of BSPS by 1.5 I'd dance in joy. Serves all those nukers right. Nerf them to hell. Let the next 4 chronicles be melee domination, then we can even think about some kind of balance.
If the cost of bsps goes up 50%, let the price go up 100% and all the necros' money can go to the Warsmiths (who deserve some love). That would Make My Day!
I really don't see a nuker nerf here. The MP pots are BIG BIG BIG. This means the nuker with 2 boxed SE will never have a downtime even if grinding really hard. Can't wait ^^. Also wild magic increasing movement rate? Woo hooo!!!! Kiting mages. Wonder if the movement speed stacks up zerk.
They are kiting already so big deal... if the MP pots are as expensive as QHP, and give like 100mp back, then they wont matter that much, but if they're GHP revised or even normal HP pots made into MP pots then it's time to change the game.
Anyway, they're just rumors ^^
How many healers really need BSPS in pve? I see plenty of healers going totally without em until it's time for some pvp so really it wouldnt hit healers hard, but it would definitely hit the nuker base. And as it is now, healers are perhaps the best grouping class when it comes to money making. They dont use even close to the same amount of shots than nukers/melees/archers do so they can live with a bit more expensive BSPS.
How many healers really need BSPS in pve? I see plenty of healers going totally without em until it's time for some pvp so really it wouldnt hit healers hard, but it would definitely hit the nuker base. And as it is now, healers are perhaps the best grouping class when it comes to money making. They dont use even close to the same amount of shots than nukers/melees/archers do so they can live with a bit more expensive BSPS.
As a bishop I spam bsps on every heal, as I don't have the lazy healer buff vr and its the only way to keep my mana up.
Even with vr in the group I like to use bsps so I can switch to my dd set and fight along with the crew, critting over 1k so I don't feel like a leach.
Of course I could go back to being a half afk healer sitting on the floor most of the time, but where's the fun in that...
I need BSPS ALL THE TIME when I'm fighting with a group doing a RB b/c it increases my heals and it saves me MP so I'm not sitting on the ground as much besides that I don't care for them but right now needing 3 more levels till Prophet it wont matter to me anyways b/c I wont use them at all once I'm a prophet!
I agree this better be BS. Rock paper scissors was supposed to be the way to balance classes, not the Olympiad. Honestly couldn't give a crap about the Olympiad.
Upping the cost of BSPS isn't a balance for nukers and melee's. It will just make top nukers even more ahead of the game. Magic crits are just a small part of why nukers are over powered.
Shields defending against magic attacks is BS. Only DA and TK will benefit. Most classes don't use shields. M.def should defend against all aggressive magic. Including sleep and hold, not just Men.
If you want to bring back he non archer melee's some serious reworking is needed. Nerfing Necro's isn't the sole answer. Give people as much m.def capabilities as p.def. Make m.def more effective.
Right now a Glad only stands a chance against a nuker if he is in Nightmare. It may stop the nuker from controlling him, but the nuker can still pump out more damage with faster/stronger attacks and do it from range.
I'm very sad to come back to my Warcryer and see melee class all together are disappearing. In sieges it's archers and nukers that decide who wins. A wall of tanks is a wall of death.
NCsoft I think your losing your status as a top PVP game.
If they'd actually increase the price of BSPS by 1.5 I'd dance in joy. Serves all those nukers right. Nerf them to hell. Let the next 4 chronicles be melee domination, then we can even think about some kind of balance.
All this does is favor those who "play at the next level", those people don't care what the BSpS cost. So you'll have the cheaters with the power and the non-cheaters with even less powers = BAD.
What they should do is nerf the actual powers of wizards, especially necromancers.
I agree this better be BS. Rock paper scissors was supposed to be the way to balance classes, not the Olympiad. Honestly couldn't give a crap about the Olympiad.
Upping the cost of BSPS isn't a balance for nukers and melee's. It will just make top nukers even more ahead of the game. Magic crits are just a small part of why nukers are over powered.
Shields defending against magic attacks is BS. Only DA and TK will benefit. Most classes don't use shields. M.def should defend against all aggressive magic. Including sleep and hold, not just Men.
If you want to bring back he non archer melee's some serious reworking is needed. Nerfing Necro's isn't the sole answer. Give people as much m.def capabilities as p.def. Make m.def more effective.
Right now a Glad only stands a chance against a nuker if he is in Nightmare. It may stop the nuker from controlling him, but the nuker can still pump out more damage with faster/stronger attacks and do it from range.
I'm very sad to come back to my Warcryer and see melee class all together are disappearing. In sieges it's archers and nukers that decide who wins. A wall of tanks is a wall of death.
NCsoft I think your losing your status as a top PVP game.
When it says shield defense against magic attacks increased...its says INCREASED meaning it was already there. Its not magic block with shields. But a increased chance to resist magic attacks. It already exists in game but the % for it to happen is super low. I see it a few times when lowbie nukers hit me.
LMAO if you read this closely it basically has all the changes the player base has asked for + a couple others thrown in for amusement. There is no way this is anywhere close to what is going to happen. It's nice to dream but someone is setting back and LTAO at all the yaa's and naa's on this thread.
Keep in mind, Hellrose has never really been wrong in the past. Though there have been updates to her translations.
yeah..
but she also says to read it for fun ^^
I dont like the mp pots idea. Mana regen is part of game balance, you know ^^
I have to agree with you. I really don't think they need to put mp in the game. However, if they did I might use them, depending on cost, etc. However, since I can go for a while without a mana infusion, more than likely they will be more for spellsingers or raids, etc...
Hmmm, wonder if it will be a backward effect on all acumen weapons/magic power weapons? If not I have to get crackin' and get a SOM w/acumen :) And then wait for the emp sword. Be nice to see a few more decent SA's.
The bsps raise probably will either mean, people will just farm more/buy more money to get it. Or people will use sps to level/bsps for pvp.
EDIT:
Planned implemation date is May 31st 2006.
that date would be for Koreans, and then we get it 6 or so months later correct?
ever thought that a monk can burn through an mp bar just as fast as a nuker?
how bout an archer who spends mp every shot?
how bout a WC/OL who buffs his group once an has no mp to spend fighting?
how bout dwarfs who must use mp to craft the beloved shots you so dearly complain about? with bsps costing 1.5x more, mp cost will go up too. not to mention the materials which will make the end cost not 150% but 300% (at current dwarf markups).
mp potions were what every newb complained they didnt have.
now that we MIGHT get them, wow might collapse and the tards who played that might just come over.
i am apalled at just how narrow your field of vision is.
i think i can be sure that you rolled a FOTM more than once.
I have to agree with you. I really don't think they need to put mp in the game. However, if they did I might use them, depending on cost, etc. However, since I can go for a while without a mana infusion, more than likely they will be more for spellsingers or raids, etc...
Lol, what are you talking about Sov, you already have Mana pots since you are a SH, they are called healing pots. ;)
What I think is funny is ppl saying, ZOMG MANA POTS, NOOO, ZOMG, EMP POTS, NOO, ZOMG, NERF NERF NERF.
Then 3 lines later they see the mass amount of mage nerfs, including raising bsps shots that will only encourage, like another said, people to "play at the next level" and then people go, Yea, yea, yea!!! Rofl...you guys are funny! I think people will only be happy if their class is the uber, and people will stop complaining about mages when each nuke does about 250 damage to someone....ROFL. I won't go really deep into this, I just thought it was funny...dunno if ppl are too blinded to see why though...
The only thing that will make me sad about the pots and empower pots is...SE's will be out of a job, almost all the time. Granted an SE is always better because their recharge and buffs are free. I don't necessarily think that it is the best idea to put these into the game though...but I do like the idea of faster regen times under trees, grass fields, and streams. But I have a feeling Aden will be needing a lot more trees and streams and grassy fields...but the thing I like abou this is...maybe ppl will start leaving the catacombs and go play outside...lol
If they make bsps more expensive, and they make mana potions as expensive to begin with, and further nerf the skills of some mages, I dont see why you would quit. A lot of people mention that healers need bsps also and mana potions. If I had mana potions on my prophet I would always have enough mp to buff a full party. Right now, I can do like half :eek:. I see this as a way to nerf mages but at the same time keep them happy. Hey, lets keep melee happy and take away some damage from bsps, but lets give mages mana potions not to whine too much about the bsps.
Can you imagine how many mages would be whining if they really did to them what they did to daggers?
If this is true, it is a pretty good compromise to start with. Not enough, but it's a start.
This should slow mages down a bit because we all know most of mages power comes from bsps.
Everyone's yelling about the mana and emp pots but what about the zerk pot? Isn't potion of courage a zerk pot? Zerk is BIG TIME for nukers. At high levels it's the difference between 2 shotting a mob versus 3 shotting.
Already got the SE and now leveling the prophet. Raid groups are fun and you can level really fast. So now the question is to get another account later and twink it and keep the buffers out of party or just go with the pots.
Everyone's yelling about the mana and emp pots but what about the zerk pot? Isn't potion of courage a zerk pot? Zerk is BIG TIME for nukers. At high levels it's the difference between 2 shotting a mob versus 3 shotting.
Already got the SE and now leveling the prophet. Raid groups are fun and you can level really fast. So now the question is to get another account later and twink it and keep the buffers out of party or just go with the pots.
poor baby has to use 3 hits to kill mobs booo hoooo wow he cant level anymore oh nooooooes.
ROFL I'm not crying about anything. I'm just wondering why no one commenting about the zerk in a bottle. I don't have a pocket prophet and really don't need it. Two more enchants and it fixed that 3 shotting problem.
Everyone's yelling about the mana and emp pots but what about the zerk pot? Isn't potion of courage a zerk pot? Zerk is BIG TIME for nukers. At high levels it's the difference between 2 shotting a mob versus 3 shotting.
Already got the SE and now leveling the prophet. Raid groups are fun and you can level really fast. So now the question is to get another account later and twink it and keep the buffers out of party or just go with the pots.
poor baby has to use 3 hits to kill mobs booo hoooo wow he cant level anymore oh nooooooes.
:p
suck it up.
Did you even read that quote before you answered? Medina1 said that having a Zerk Potion would make 3-shot nukers turn into 2-shot nukers...it's not a "oh boo hoo" post, he's saying nukers get even stronger from this :p
In short if all of this is true, then "playing on the next level" nukers will be incredibly powerful (even more so now), while legit playing nukers will be nerfed severely.
You know...this game was a lot more balanced in Prelude. Let's just rollback.
I kind of agree.
And I want the mobs back on the fields like in Prelude!!! And I want trains of fettered souls agroing on poor unsuspecting players. Seriously. Game was a lot more fun when there was some danger.
healers stiks to bsps
if you dont know it you didnt played one
i tried to be a cheap and use only sps but cant do my job effective. lesser heals = more mp breaks. And my root/sleep is a crap. I cant land root on a white mob without bsps usually.
>>I cant land root on a white mob without bsps usually.
Crystal staff doesn't help. Try w/ real a grade weapon and emp. It does even on reds.
Bsps is ust 4x mattack this is why.
You sir are incorrect. BSPS are 2X out of the square rooted magic attack; which gives us the real formula: (2/(magic attack)^(-1/2)). And as expected, it doesn't land all the time, even with bsps, and this is especially true on red mobs, where the land rate can be close to 50% or less, depending on how much higher the red mob is. Now were you to tell me you were examining a massively deleveled healer when you saw this, then we could believe you knew what you were talking about.
And I really really hope this is just a falsely translated set of patch notes. I mean honestly, a 1.5X increase in BSPS cost? As if I wasn't paying enough for them already, and don't try to make me believe I can level without them at this stage in the game. I did try, and I died a horrible and miserable death because the damage output wasn't enough to kill the mobs running at me, my sleep had too small of a land rate to fully get to all the adds, and I simply was leveling too slowly to have fun. As things are now, the cost vs reward is well balanced for bsps. Yes the reward vs cost ratio for bsps vs soulshot use is higher, but that is because soul shots cost too much, not because bsps cost too little.
And if you think this is only necessary because bsps increase casting speed, then a better alternative would have been to make regular spirit shots double the amount of damage done from a nuke, and have the bsps as they are now be the ones that have the 1.5 increase in cost. This would essentially give everyone what they want, or at least prevent anyone from losing what they truly do not want to lose.
People seem to forget that making a class weaker in any form, will eventually end up coming back to bite them in the *** when they are partied with this now nerfed class.
Edit: Though I do believe the reduction in magic critical damage from 4 to 2 was long overdue, provided that the critical rate gets increased severely, or the fail rate gets reduced severely. Afterall, who likes dying to a mobs magic critical, knowing that even were they at full health, they would have died.
As a Melee i can do nothing more then to hate you... :confused:
Well, the problem is that the damage nukers do to mobs seems to be balanced for blessed sps. When a nuker with good equipment attacks a single hp mob which is green to him (ignoring CDL for now), the nuker needs two nukes+blessed to kill the mob, right when it stands in front of him. If you reduce the damage output (by reducing blessed sps damage or by making blessed sps so expensive that you cannot use them regularly), the nuker needs more nukes, and maybe a sleep extra to stop the mob from stunning etc. That means that you need 1.5x to 2x the mp per mob, which of course has a direct influence on the exp/time speed (double the mp cost per mob means half the exp per mp bar). So a small modification of blessed cost or power would effectively make soloing "not worth it" anymore for nukers. Reducing the power of blessed sps instead of making them more expensive would also mean that skills like e.g. sleeping cloud or aoe debuffs would be severely reduced in their landing rate. Which could cause havoc (ever seen what happens to a nuker if a sleeping cloud on 10-15 mobs fails on half of them?). These skills right now work well with blessed sps and not good at all (quite useless) without sps. They would have to be balanced, since right now they basically require you to use blessed sps.
Sadly this list of inofficial changes sounds quite realistic as far as I am concerned due to two points:
1: There is absolutely no mention of Dwarf skills in it.
2: The Warsmiths are kicked by making BSpS 1.5x as hard to create (while still using the same material), which would exclusively hurt the legal Warsmiths, not the ones, who sit on their *** 24/7 with a DE-SE slave beside them to recharge.
I don't really care for the other changes, but everytime I miss a whole race in the patchnotes, it drives me one further step away up to the point, where my dwarven arms can no longer reach the game.
>>You sir are incorrect. BSPS are 2X out of the square rooted magic attack; which givesus the real formula
----
Debuffs, root, sleep, dots, etc. dont use sqrt for calculations the success landing rate but pure mattack...
So a small modification of blessed cost or power would effectively make soloing "not worth it" anymore for nukers.
Why should a nuker be able to lvl from 1-78 solo when melees cannot? One part of balance is the lvling speed which is alot faster for nukers. Which is alot cheaper for nukers. Which is alot easier for nukers. NERF them to hell. If you're so worried about needing more mp per mob, how about you get a party? This is a MMO, not a single player shooter.
Ever seen what happens to a solo melee if they get 10-15 mobs on them? They got _zero_ crowd control abilities, so they will get butchered unlike the nuker who still can sleep the mobs.
1. Leveling is not easier for nukers.
2. Soloing is as easy for both, it really depends on wether you have buffs or not. But heck even a dwarf with prophet buffs can "solo" very very well. While a nuker without buffs is basically = dead in many high level areas.
3. The level cost is higher for nukers than for most fighter classes, even my dwarf has less expenses.
Ever seen what happens to a solo melee if they get 10-15 mobs on them?
The same thing will happen to you, as will a nuker...you will both die, with the exception of Spellsingers who have AOE sleep, but without BSpS, it will fail on alot of mobs and you're dead.
not cryst staff.
i have +3 carnage bow
and of course I _always_ have emp3
sps gives the same cast speed as bsps but only 2x matk, right.
Probably bsps not only increasing matk by 4 but also increase the debuff chance. Without any sps i failed root sometimes even on dark blue mobs.
You saying that solo 2 shotting mobs all the way to 78 isnt easier than grinding in parties, which you first need to make?
Unbuffed SH/Necro can solo for a _long_ time and get lots of exp+money as he actually makes profit killing the mobs. Same lvl melee can kill a few mobs and then needs to rest. Or drink a lot of GHP. And the ss spamming costs more than BSPS spam.
Nuker without buffs = good soloing in Forest of the Dead.
Melee without buffs = dead or _really_ slow soloing in Forest of the Dead. And that's a high lvl place. Ever wondered why so many more nukers hit 75/78 before melees?
And when did nuking become more costly? 2x BSPS B/A is alot cheaper than 10-15x SS A/B. A nuker actually makes profit 2 shotting mobs. The best a melee can do is break even.
Why should a nuker be able to lvl from 1-78 solo when melees cannot? One part of balance is the lvling speed which is alot faster for nukers. Which is alot cheaper for nukers. Which is alot easier for nukers. NERF them to hell. If you're so worried about needing more mp per mob, how about you get a party? This is a MMO, not a single player shooter.
If you read the interviews with the L2 devs, it should become obvious that there are classes in this game which are intended to be capable of solo play. And if you look at the patch notes and preview information for recent chronicles, you will see that they DO put in features for "solo" players. L2 is *not* a "party only" game. If you want to solo, choose a solo capable class. Archer, nuker, summoner come to mind. And some other classes if you have access to buffs (not necessarily 2-boxing, there are clan hall buffs, too).
Soloing *is* a valid option in this game. And there are probably quite a lot of players out there who chose their class specifically because it CAN solo and because they WANT to solo. So any change which makes soloing either impossible or not "worth it" anymore for classes which up to now could do it is a Bad Thing. MMO =/= being forced to party. Not all classes in the game can solo equally well (heck, some cannot solo at all). But that is why there are lots of classes to choose from, and taking away a class-defining feature (and "solo-capable" is one) is not good.
Just for the record, I play a nuker sub and I only solo when I have to (when not many in clan are on). I prefer to party. Still, I do know quite a lot of people who prefer soloing.
>>Probably bsps not only increasing matk by 4 but also increase the debuff chance.
Debuff chance is based on mattack/lvl vs target mdef/lvl [cant recall the fomula by heart].
>>sps gives the same cast speed as bsps but only 2x matk, right.
Right
>>Without any sps i failed root sometimes even on dark blue mobs.
I can show you a screen shot of 77lvl Storm Screamer failing hurricane on a bat in E.Ruins TI... [and bats are vulnerable to wind]. So it's just luck I believe [also some deep blue mobs may have higher mdef than some reds]
And in your opinion boosting the solo abilities is better then? Encouraging even more people to abandon the party dependant classes? No class should be able to solo well. Parties should always be better than soloing, but as it is now, you can go from 1-78 without ever partying.
And how does the cost make it "not worth it"? Because now nukers cant make profit soloing? OH NOES. Melees cant make profit soloing or in groups so whats the big deal here? BSPS should be 3x the cost so it would be only for PVP/Raids/Emergencies. Use SPS for pve, alot cheaper, no? As it is now, noone even makes SPS as they're useless.
2. Soloing is as easy for both, it really depends on wether you have buffs or not. But heck even a dwarf with prophet buffs can "solo" very very well. While a nuker without buffs is basically = dead in many high level areas.
====================
This is my fav.
So soloing for melee dictates prophet/SE/WC buffs? While nukers could be fine w/o.
---
Nukers need only acumen to solo costwise. Even if they cant 2shot things, surrender virtually lands w/o sps. And they can mix bsps/sps if needed.
Show me a dagger class that can solo effectively even w/ 1/3 speed of a non-buffed nuker.
Utilizing CH buffs [while being great] heavily restricts zones one can hunt. Giran CHs are virtually useless after mid 60s.
1. The reason why nukers can level faster is because IF they have the correct buffs, recharge and BSpS they can kill very fast.
2. Without buffs, a nuker is incredible vulnerable, while soloing is doable, it carries a high risk of dying, especially if you're not on a pure fast connection. Fighters don't have that problem in most cases.
3. They don't make that kind of money at all, if they're not buffed a nuker will easily have to spend 3 or 4 shots on a mob, thats 1200+ adena per mob, well beyond the adena drops a mob give.
4. Nukers are costly, fighters can with relative safety fight without shots, a nuker can easily die to DEEP BLUE mobs if things go wrong, because a fighters attack can't be disrupted, a nukers spells can. Fighters don't have to worry about mobs being in sync so much because they're up close, a nuker can fire a spell off, and all of a sudden 3-4 mobs snap over and group agro.
And yes, I have extensive experience playing both fighter classes and nukers, even to the 60+ range.
if i get agroed by mobs, regardless of how many, i'd rather be playing a nuker than a melee
Depends on the circumstances. a buffed nuker sure. Otherwise, rather a melee, especially those that get fake death if there's trouble.
Even normally a fighter can outheal (with pots) monster damage because of the high p.def. Mages on the other hand, cannot.
a mage 3 hitting mobs will still spend less adena than a melee class with less down time
3 shots = 900+ adena per mob (more if a-grade), there's very few mobs you can 3 shot without buffs that gives 900 adena on average. A Melee character might spend 10 BBS on a mob, but thats still only 600 adena per mob. Heck, I make a profit spamming BSS on my dwarves purely adenawise.
dark blue mobs can still kill melee
Only if you play completely stupid and get alot of them on you. A nuker can die to a single one if things goes badly, once you get a disrupt streak or out of sync mobs it doesn't take them long to beat you to death.
And in your opinion boosting the solo abilities is better then? Encouraging even more people to abandon the party dependant classes? No class should be able to solo well. Parties should always be better than soloing, but as it is now, you can go from 1-78 without ever partying.
And how does the cost make it "not worth it"? Because now nukers cant make profit soloing? OH NOES. Melees cant make profit soloing or in groups so whats the big deal here? BSPS should be 3x the cost so it would be only for PVP/Raids/Emergencies. Use SPS for pve, alot cheaper, no? As it is now, noone even makes SPS as they're useless.
Once again, I personally do not like to solo that much, I just do it when I am in game and cannot find a clan party (I do not like random parties that much). But obviously there ARE people who ONLY want to solo, and they are a large percentage of the Korean customer base, so the developers WILL cater to them. So don't attack me for just stating the obvious, that there are classes which can solo (and always will be able to) and classes which cannot. It is simply a design decision the devs took. I think it sucks that I cannot solo on my SS and would like it if all classes were capable of soloing AND making a profit (party should still be better, though).
Check this out from the C5 preview:
Greater Support for Soloing
According to (Korean) player demand, various game elements will be added to allow for easier soloing with less downtime.
Korean players want to solo, so there will be classes which can AND still make a profit. It seems they think it is enough when some classes can solo and others can't. And we here get what the Koreans want.
My dwarf with golem and using ss and beast ss will cost more than any nuker (even sps) using blessed sps and I will do less damage than them still and kill ALOT slower because of the time it takes to move between mobs.
Nukers need a nerf no doubt, today I fought an equal level SH and he was hitting me for freaking 2000 damage per shot and I was buffed by prophet AND swordsinger (warding was up) and here I was hitting for 100dmg each swing after he just 2 shotted my golem without even sleeping it and I couldn't interrupt him either. Thank god he didn't crit me or I would have been one shotted (well blasted into my CP anyway).
Not to mention this was in the arena and everytime I could attack him he also runs outside and can still shoot in, yeh yeh I know who cares about the arena but I do because it's not fun to lose your buffs every time you enter.
Sometimes I wonder about the people that make this game, I've spent the last 3 chronicles getting pwned by treasure hunters, cancelled by spellsingers and obliterated by all ranged chars because of the classes I choose to play are supposedly 'for the weak'.
1. The reason why nukers can level faster is because IF they have the correct buffs, recharge and BSpS they can kill very fast.
Acumen2 potion, BSPS and you can go for a long time 2 shotting mobs.
2. Without buffs, a nuker is incredible vulnerable, while soloing is doable, it carries a high risk of dying, especially if you're not on a pure fast connection. Fighters don't have that problem in most cases.
High risk of dying? A soloing melee has higher risk of dying since he actually takes DAMAGE. A nuker is piss easy to lvl.
3. They don't make that kind of money at all, if they're not buffed a nuker will easily have to spend 3 or 4 shots on a mob, thats 1200+ adena per mob, well beyond the adena drops a mob give.
Get a better weapon, no wonder if you're nuking with a C-grade weapon at 60+ that you need 3 shots. SH 2 shots mobs easy without buffs, thats 600a for 1,2k drop. Go to Blazing Swamp, go to Forest of the Dead. Hell, go to FG, FP. ANYWHERE.
4. Nukers are costly, fighters can with relative safety fight without shots, a nuker can easily die to DEEP BLUE mobs if things go wrong, because a fighters attack can't be disrupted, a nukers spells can. Fighters don't have to worry about mobs being in sync so much because they're up close, a nuker can fire a spell off, and all of a sudden 3-4 mobs snap over and group agro.
Fighters can fight 1-2 mobs without SS and then need to rest. Is that your definition of easy and safe fighting? Have you played really at 60+? Unbuffed, a nuker is 10 times better soloer than a melee.
And yes, I have extensive experience playing both fighter classes and nukers, even to the 60+ range.
Doesnt sound like it. List the classes and equipment on them perhaps?
Destroyer, using Dragon Slayer, BW heavy and STR+4 tattoo is what I base my melee experience on.
SH, using SOES, demon set is what I base my nuker experience on. The SH is a killing machine. Pure soloer that _makes_ money nuking. The Destroyer _LOSES_ money soloing.
Oh, just noticed how you say that 1,2k is well beyond what a mob drops... you havent played this game much have you? Mobs drop _alot_ more than that in this game. Perhaps leave TI ?
Even normally a fighter can outheal (with pots) monster damage because of the high p.def. Mages on the other hand, cannot.
You need GHP to even keep at the same HP, cant outheal the dmg really with only potions. Go to Valley of Saints where mobs can and do hit for 400-500. HP potions work at 1-40, after that you will get more dmg than they give back hp, and it will _cost_ alot to spam GHP.
3 shots = 900+ adena per mob (more if a-grade), there's very few mobs you can 3 shot without buffs that gives 900 adena on average. A Melee character might spend 10 BBS on a mob, but thats still only 600 adena per mob. Heck, I make a profit spamming BSS on my dwarves purely adenawise.
There's many mobs you can 3 shot, more to the point - 2 SHOT without buffs, and they drop 1,2-1,5k adena on average. Thats alot of pure profit from the money alone. A buffed melee character might spend 10 BSS, an unbuffed one is spending alot more.
Acumen2 potion, BSPS and you can go for a long time 2 shotting mobs.
If you start counting in potions, L2day scrolls, etc. Then you're hardly unbuffed. And without any buffs, there's not many mobs I can twohit kill with a SOM
High risk of dying? A soloing melee has higher risk of dying since he actually takes DAMAGE. A nuker is piss easy to lvl.
I die a heck of alot with my nuker on my own, melee characters would only die if I really really play stupid. Nukers would only require 1 out of sync situation and its "your spell has been disrupted" "your spell has been disrupted" "your spell has been disrupted" "your spell has been disrupted" "return to town", despite the concentration 2-3 we get.
Get a better weapon, no wonder if you're nuking with a C-grade weapon at 60+ that you need 3 shots. SH 2 shots mobs easy without buffs, thats 600a for 1,2k drop. Go to Blazing Swamp, go to Forest of the Dead. Hell, go to FG, FP. ANYWHERE.
Uhm, blazing swamp mobs have 3,5-5K hp, I doubt you can twoshot them without any buffs at all. That seems terribly unlikely. I can't do that with a SOM.
Fighters can fight 1-2 mobs without SS and then need to rest. Is that your definition of easy and safe fighting? Have you played really at 60+? Unbuffed, a nuker is 10 times better soloer than a melee.
Its alot safer and easier than it is for a nuker without shots at all. Yes, I play alot 60+, now of course rarely unbuffed on any of the characters.
Now granted nukers are better levelers and monster killers overall (but man, do you get more cramps in the fingers playing them for extended period of time), especially once you gear them up right, buff them, BSpS spam, etc. BUT AGAIN, these changes only make it so that regular players are punished, the powerplayers will just have even more power than before, this is what you want?
Doesnt sound like it. List the classes and equipment on them perhaps?
Bountyhunter, high 60's, AOBA+BW (fixing majestic)
Warsmith, mid-60's, AOBA-Avadon
Spellhowler, SOM/SoV, Avadon
and so on.
Oh, just noticed how you say that 1,2k is well beyond what a mob drops... you havent played this game much have you? Mobs drop _alot_ more than that in this game. Perhaps leave TI ?
Only the newer mobs do that. And you should remember that its not a fixed amount, typically it will be 1000-1700 adena drops, and thats with a 70% chance droprate, so in reality it would be 700-1190 REAL adena you're getting. Some of the really good new mobs give 1500-3000 Adena, which translates into 1050-2100 Adena (which both a nuker and a melee would get out of it).
So really, the number isn't that far off on any mob.
1 potion, dont need more. And the scrolls, not needed, still 2 shotting. You might wanna test changing that Avadon for Demon set or if you can afford, NM robes.
Ye, well the new mobs are perfect for nukers. FOTD is the heaven of nukers now.
I find it really hard to believe that your dwarves, with lesser gear than my Destro would be faring any better in comparison O.o
I find it really hard to believe that your dwarves, with lesser gear than my Destro would be faring any better in comparison O.o
WS is the pve god of melee
but it comes at a heavy cost
no offence man but get out of blazing swamp
that is the gimpest xp availiable in game
mobs give jack crap xp, have high mdef/pdef/high hp/hit hard/drop crap money
seriously the second c4 hit i was outa there in a flash
only reason i returned was for moonstone shards and its what i recommend everyone does
I have not played a nuker to a high lvl but i have Friends / clan m8ts that does. and they lvl so fast compared to me that i would have no chance keeping up.
I say what a sps say in my clan "this is a nukers game".. there best in PvP and PvE.
Thats why i fell gimped like hell, when a nuker tell me he lvls slow with out Bsps and he is still levels 5 times faster then me.
*I'm crying a river *
Illegal nukers are much better...for real players playing nukers you'd most likely start having your fingers hurt alot quicker than with a fighter character, hence play less.
Anyway, the point is that this change doesn't "nerf" nukers per se, it only nerds low end nukers, while making the already strong "play at the next level" nukers more powerful.
* Greater Balance between classes
Elimination of PvP superclass. The classes will be counterbalanced in a RockPaperScissor way. Certain classes will be stronger against some classes over others. (note: necros)
Here is a quote from the first C5 info thread. The one I beleive is real. I don't beleive the new one is. People would cancel there accounts faster then NCsoft could say sorry, considering they never have it's pretty easy.
I like the way C5 is going in the original preview. Being a WC, a balance between nukers and melee's would benefit me the most. I'd be in the highest demand for plenty of melee parties. My casting skills give me a way to fight even archers.My melee skills will let me fight nukers.
All though WC and OL aren't PVP super classs, we have enough balance that we can fight any one.
WS is the pve god of melee
but it comes at a heavy cost
no offence man but get out of blazing swamp
that is the gimpest xp availiable in game
mobs give jack crap xp, have high mdef/pdef/high hp/hit hard/drop crap money
seriously the second c4 hit i was outa there in a flash
only reason i returned was for moonstone shards and its what i recommend everyone does
I wouldnt call a WS pve god of melee even with the golem out. What a WS lacks is _criticals_ and same goes for the golem too. Tyrant/Gladi/Dagger/Destro all have high DPS and when properly buffed it will be alot better than that of a WS with the golem, due to the constant high dmg criticals. I crit for 3-4k all the time. I 2 hit mobs from time to time :) and thats without Frenzy, that can now be used even in pve with the proper support. And with proper support, the cooldown timer is like 2mins or something, ask Taraza for details ^^
And I dont exp in Blazing Swamp with my Destro lol :P Wall of Argos is much better. FOTD is much better. Even ToI and catas are better imho.
Empower is a buff, and spiritshot is ... consumable, how vould they not stack? Is it like "I cannot healtank when he pops healing potion or vice versa"? Or not double damage with soulshot while I buff you with Might? Makes no sense.
Or do you mean that it quadruples total MATK, not base value of naked character? Sorry if you mean that.
Casting speed with bsps is another question though.
Ok, the original idiot, who many months ago said without proof that m attack is quadrupled when using bsps needs to be shot, because anyone with half a brain who goes out and buys some bsps, then proceeds to nuke a mob or player will notice that the damage done is only doubled, the chance of landing status effects or dots will only be doubled as well. Thus we can have proved that bsps do not quadruple m attack anymore than soulshots quadruple p attack. Yes you can insert a little formula that effectively places in a squared 2 within both formulas, but only when it is under a square root. So we can do the following insanity:
Physical damage with no soulshots=(p attack)*70/(p defense)
With soulshots, this becomes
=((p attack)^(37)*137,438,953,472)^(1/37)*70/(p defense)
Holy cow, soulshots increase p attack by 137,438,953,472; thats not fair, why don't bsps do that much?
The exact same trick can be used for both magic damage and the probability to land function. So that yes, you are inserting a 4 into the equation, but only within a square root, take it outside of the root, and it becomes a 2 again:
2=((2)^2)^(1/2)=(4)^(1/2)=2
2=(2^37)^(1/37)=(137,438,953,472)^(1/37)=2
Now to say that empower plus blessed is a nasty combo, seems to ignore that might plus all those other useful physical attack buffs also make for a nasty combo, and all stack in the same sense that soulshots double the final score of the physical damage given, and bsps double the final score of the spell damage given, though in both cases neither one has any noticeable effect on determining the land rate of the attack or spell.
Perhaps if you could define for us what you meant by balanced, then we could more easily understand this.
Ok, the idiot who said without proof that m attack is quadrupled when using bsps needs to be shot, because anyone with half a brain who goes out and buys some bsps, then proceeds to nuke a mob or player will notice that the damage done is only doubled, the chance of landing status effects or dots will only be doubled as well. Thus we can have proved that bsps do not quadruple m attack anymore than soulshots quadruple p attack.
Elli, I like your posts, they are usually well thought out, but sometimes you get fired up and miss the point.
The "idiot" that you referred to above is in fact right, he specifically was talking about sleep/root/debuffs which is 4 x land rate with bsps, not damage which of course is 2x with bsps.
The reason has to do with the placement of the quad multiplier with bsps when comaring damage versus debuff forumlas.
The best explanation I could find on short notice is as follows - its a tad convoluted, but I didn't have the time to reword it. Its still pretty clear tho if you read it carefully - incidentally, the context for the post made by this person was looking at the how to solve the unbalancing effects bsps has on the game for pvp land rates of debuffs, sleep etc.
Very simple fix for bsps's effect on debuff land rates though it takes a bit of math to describe:
.
The formula for magic damage looks something like:
(Skill power*91(SQRT of m.atk.))/mdef
.
with sps it's
(Skill power*91(SQRT of (m.atk.*2.25)))/mdef
.
with bsps it's
(Skill power*91(SQRT of (m.atk.*4)))/mdef
.
the formula for landing debuffs varies but for sleep it's pretty much like:
((EM - aegis - set bonus)*level)*(matk/mdef)
EM is basically the sleep's base chance to land
i.e, it has to pass a skill level versus player level check and a matk versus mdef check, but with overly high matk vs. mdef, the level check doesn't matter nearly as much
.
with bsps it's
((EM - aegis - set bonus)*level)*((matk*4)/mdef)
.
See where the *4 is applied? On the matk. This leads to 2x damage and 4x land rate on debuffs.
.
Let's mod the formulas.
Magic Damage:
sps: 1.5*(Skill power*91(SQRT of m.atk.))/mdef
bsps:2*(Skill power*91(SQRT of m.atk.))/mdef
.
Debuff Sleep:
sps: (EM - aegis - set bonus)*level)*(1.5*(matk/mdef))
bsps: (EM - aegis - set bonus)*level)*(2*(matk/mdef))
.
There, now the land rate on debuffs is *2 for bsps, not *4. All I did was change where the bsps is applied - instead of multiplying on matk, it now multiplies on both the damage and the matk part of the debuff land rate formula.
If you want to see the effects of this in "reality", watch olympiad matches. With only sps being allowed for use, sleep, entangle etc all have much lower land rates - so significant that many mages dont even try to use it on certain classes and builds. I play as a Evas Templar, and with Imperial Crusader I think I have had sleep land maybe 3 times since I have been playing the Olympiad?
On the other hand, when I step out of the olympiad and into the arena, I get slept all the time, which really irritates me.
Other examples of how bsps is unbalanced for land rates has been seen in the recent battle tournament, with a Myst Muse almost taking out an entire opposing team in the 5v5 survival mode - to be honest, she would have gone through all 5 of them undefeated but had no way to keep her mp from running out after facing so many opponents! All she did was routinely use the extra cast speed and land rates of bsps, cobmined with her natually high LE WIT, and combo spells in a way that barely even let her opponents touch her.
There is no doubt about it - the use of bsps for cast speed, and land rates, needs a nerf to balance the game, in particular for pvp.
Ok, the original idiot, who many months ago said without proof that m attack is quadrupled when using bsps needs to be shot, because anyone with half a brain who goes out and buys some bsps, then proceeds to nuke a mob or player will notice that the damage done is only doubled, the chance of landing status effects or dots will only be doubled as well. Thus we can have proved that bsps do not quadruple m attack anymore than soulshots quadruple p attack.
Of course bsps does quadruple matk, this is known since bsps were introduced into the game. And standard sps double matk. Yes, the "4" is only introduced under a square root in the damage formula, but what does that change about the fact that the player's matk is quadrupled for damage calculation? You get 4 times the matk, which gives 2 times the damage. But it still is 4 times the matk.
bsps=4 times matk, which results in 2 times damage
sps=2 times matk, which results in 1.41 times damage
WC and OL are PvP superclasses, just not played so much as nuker
My sub is TH and I was unable to make single adena by hunting mobs no matter is solo or in group. I always spent much more per mob than others. + add money for healing pots, cuz melee cant solo without healing pots. (solo with buffpet is not solo)... and all nukers I was talking with told me that they make money soloing, and some of them are using just acu1 pots from shop and unbuffed
I wouldnt call a WS pve god of melee even with the golem out. What a WS lacks is _criticals_ and same goes for the golem too. Tyrant/Gladi/Dagger/Destro all have high DPS and when properly buffed it will be alot better than that of a WS with the golem, due to the constant high dmg criticals. I crit for 3-4k all the time. I 2 hit mobs from time to time and thats without Frenzy, that can now be used even in pve with the proper support. And with proper support, the cooldown timer is like 2mins or something, ask Taraza for details ^^
well i'd really have to test that side by side with a tyrant
equal lvl buffs with a crit build WS spamming golem odds are the tyrant may get more xp (due to the -15% xp penalty) but i still think the ws will have the faster more consistant kill speed
you're right that crit is pretty much all that matters in pve but i think you'd be surprised just how often the golem crits (i have no friggn idea why)
i wasnt saying that you hunt in blazing i was saying that to the nuker complaining that nukers get crap xp there (everyone gets crap xp there)
FOTD is the best xp spot in game, i unfortunately outlvled the lower mobs and vampires are heavily camped by high lvl nukers
as far as i know argos is the next best xp in game
now that i went so heavily off topic time to go back on :P
this c5 info better be a joke
East hill at BS is very good xp for solo SH/Screamer (overlords, shamans).16k per overlord in 2hits (w/ shadow flare overhit). Drop is ok as well.
---
@Nya, as TH I can make adena but only if i have outside buffs (CH or sorta) or duo w/ WC and not massively spamming SS. Solo (only haste2, and focus from SoES) is huge money waste.Vurtually 1GHP per 2mobs or so. [Provided I use OE'd Kris (so no A grade shots - which completely kills a TH adena wise - 900attack speed spamming *** is pain)]