I am about to become a spellsinger and am torn between these two sets. The bonus to karmian being all positive is attractive but demon set gives +4 in at the cost of -270 hp and 1 WIT. Is 4 INT that much damage?
4 int is a lot of damage. Remember, casting speed does not affect efficiency, you will just drain your mp a little faster with karmian. With Demons set tho, you will deal more damage/hit->exp in bigger mobs->exp faster. Karmian does offer an edge in pvp, however, most ppl dont care about pvp ability before B grade.
At C grade all nukers IMO should go demon robes and an acumen weapon. The demon set bonuses are TOO GOOD to give up when you can get the stupid 15% casting speed on a weapon. Especially for an SPS who is fast anyway.
When I was in C grade I used Karmian because there were no Acumen weapons and the slow casting drove me nuts.
But as a spellsinger, you can cast pretty fast in the first place so up your damage a bit by using Demon. IF you want VERY fast casting speed then go Karmian but I don't know how that will affect your pve.
Spellsingers are limited by mana and efficiency at every turn.
You should not bother with serious PvP until 52+
At that time buy a set of Avadon and keep your demon for PvE.
At 61 get a DC set and keep your Demon for PvE.
Certainly, if you have the cash for Karmian as well, then go for it, but do not pass up demon if you can get it. You will use it the rest of your Spellsinger's life for PvE as the B, A and S grade PvE armors are not really worth the investment.
What about a warcryer? Off topic but it would help me :p. The reason I ask is because I already have Karmian from another character.
Factors: I dont use bsps on mobs unless im almost dead. Only on people.
Whats more like to land a curse:
1. Casting the same curse 2 times in karmian or
2. Casting the same curse 1 time but in demon
Also. As far as weapons are concerned. blunt with health and shield or dual swords? I have both but due to weight concerns can only carry one :(. I was thinking because of the low dex a warcryer has, duals would be better, but I would lose the extra health and stun ability. Advice?
But my question is... Sure you are getting more damage for your mana with demon, but you are also killing alot faster with karmian. Which means quicker runs with karmian or slower runs with more xp.
On a long enough timeline, either +4 int is 15% damage or karmian is better. And even then you lose 270 hp to demon.
You all agree demon is better. But I don't think you're looking at the long term benefits of killing that much faster with karmian.
I don't think you're looking at the long term benefits of killing that much faster with karmian.
Am I mistaken?
1) MP regen is a constant unless you have an outside source of MP. Thus, you don't actually kill faster in terms of "kills per hour" or a useful metric like that, as you spend more time resting with Karmian. In fact, over an hour, depending on what you fight, you may be as much as 30% slower on your Karmian kills than you would be in Demon.
2) 2-shot at -4% speed or 3-shot at 15% speed...which is actually faster? Demon wins here.
I don't think you're looking at the long term benefits of killing that much faster with karmian.
Am I mistaken?
1) MP regen is a constant unless you have an outside source of MP. Thus, you don't actually kill faster in terms of "kills per hour" or a useful metric like that, as you spend more time resting with Karmian. In fact, over an hour, depending on what you fight, you may be as much as 30% slower on your Karmian kills than you would be in Demon.
2) 2-shot at -4% speed or 3-shot at 15% speed...which is actually faster? Demon wins here.
Yes, you are mistaken.
You're trying to tell me that +4 int is 50% more damage?
Anyways, my homun has the damage modifier on it, so do I really want more damage?
if you go with demon, its a very good idea to get a +4 con-4str tatoo, also its also good to get a +4int - 4men tatoo, if you got $$$. the thing with nukers with any set is having little hp and while 270hp isnt that much you're much better with +4con. anyway to lvl faster go demon, to pvp better go karmian. opposites do perform, but not as good.
But my question is... Sure you are getting more damage for your mana with demon, but you are also killing alot faster with karmian. Which means quicker runs with karmian or slower runs with more xp.
I'm not sure that is exactly correct as you still have the spell recharge time which I believe is the same with or without karmian.
So you are casting faster but you still need to wait for the spell to be ready again.
I run into this problem a lot with Shadow Flare as I need to wait for it to be ready.
2) 2-shot at -4% speed or 3-shot at 15% speed...which is actually faster? Demon wins here.
You're trying to tell me that +4 int is 50% more damage?
No. I am telling you that there are some foes that require 3 shots with Karmian and only 2 shots in Demon. +15% damage is enough to make that difference.
Purely hypothetical example:
Monster has 100HP.
Base nuke damage is 45.
Karmian: 3 nukes to cause 135 damage.
Demon: 2 nukes to cause 103.5 damage.
...both kill the target, but Demon does it faster and using 50% less MP.
I'm not sure if you just weren't getting it or if you're intentionally misconstruing my statement, so I'll leave it at that for now :p
But my question is... Sure you are getting more damage for your mana with demon, but you are also killing alot faster with karmian. Which means quicker runs with karmian or slower runs with more xp.
On a long enough timeline, either +4 int is 15% damage or karmian is better. And even then you lose 270 hp to demon.
You all agree demon is better. But I don't think you're looking at the long term benefits of killing that much faster with karmian.
Am I mistaken?
Ok a little advice from a lvl 60+ Sps. We as a race LE have the weakest Matk but the fastest cast speed. We also have no BTM. As an Sps your number one priority in PVE is Matk. You need to kill mobs with the least amount of nukes. Anything that takes more than 2 shots to kill is bad for PVE.
I still use demon for PVE with a +5 SOV/acumen. I use avadon for pvp only. Ialso have the standard tat setup +4Int/wit -8Men -4str +4Con . I also use mana regen spell its not alot but if I use it and walk my mp will usually last a buff round. I hunt green mobs because I can get 10k xp per mob 2 shotting with overhit spell. Oh by the way because of the hours I play I usually hunt self buffed.
If you 2 box then going with a cast speed setup is just fine. But you will burn through mana very fast.
By the way I still use C/B grade armor because the A grade prices have gone through the roof on my server. DC robe 75mil, gloves & boots 20mil each and helm 150mil. SOM is 60 mil but another 80mil to get crystal for acumen. So im looking at 400 mil just to get into A grade. or half that to craft it all.