Rogue classes: Reality vs. Theory

Player Questions Started Last reply 14 posts
I spent some time doing a comparison of the skills of the various Rogue classes and I'd like some practical feedback.

Here are the sheets I've done show the common skills versus the unique ones for each class:

Pre-40 Rogue Skills (http://jute.dreamhosters.com/rogue.htm)
Dagger users after class change (http://jute.dreamhosters.com/daggers.htm)
Archers after class change (http://jute.dreamhosters.com/archer.htm)

Now in theory, it looks very much like the Light Elves are heavily damage avoidant. They are faster and more agile. So they take less damage because of skills and although they don't do as much damage per hit as the other classes, it should even out with their higher critical rate.

Dark Elves don't avoid as much damage, but they should theoritically be able to kill faster, because they do a higher amount of damage per hit. Their critical rate isn't as high as Light Elves or Humans but when it lands their damage is spectacular.

Humans are a mix of the two with higher critical damage than Light Elves and higher critical land rates than Dark Elves.

So, at least in theory, every race should be reasonablely good to play, it would just depend on what you wanted.

Now, what I'd like to know is how close that theory ends up being reality. As has been stated repeatedly, Offense in L2 seems to be greater than Defense. Additionally, there is often a huge difference between PvE and PvP. Some skills that work well in one, do not work well in the other.

Any feedback is welcome.

(Also, I've done other sheets on other class comparisons if people are interested in those.)
I'm not experienced with daggers but I'd be interested in nuker comparison sheet ;)
Just one thing: human has the most martial stats to play w/. Human gets crit chance passive clearly outdamage DE.
Humans get haste passive and the best passives overall.
I'll post up the nuker one as soon as I get a chance...

As to the Rogue classes, one other thing I'd be interested in is whether or not the higher mana regen of the Light Elves makes any impact in reality.
While it may be play style, my human rogue/TH never seems to have any mana problems at all.

The tattoo/gear setup makes it so crits bring down the mobs rather quickly.

Same with PvP. If close <SKILL SKILL CRIT CRIT pick up drops>. If distance <STUN SKILL CRIT pick up drops>

That goes for nukers, too....if done right. I personally don't think that nukers>daggers. Nukers win if the dagger plays the nukers's game, daggers win if the dagger plays the dagger's game.

Non-conformity.
The only way a dagger is gonna win against a nuker is if the nuker does not know how to play his class. They have taken the dagger nerf way to far and have ruined that class for pvp.

Now against mobs daggers are real good until you start hitting your 60's. I could solo with a dagger up until the 60's. But once you hit A grade your gonna find that your not that effective in PvE either.

In groups you may fit in but as a TH you crit alot drawing the aggro on to you so your gonna need alot of healing. Because low hp and pdef makes daggers as much of a glass cannon as mages. But the mages get to enjoy the safety of distances.

Now to the original OP i have not added any real input to your comparisons. I am responding to Rumpunch and i do apologize. But this is really a pvp game as advertized and dagger users really do stink at that now since c3.
I would like to respectfully disagree with Freak. While it certainly helps if the nuker makes mistakes...the dagger can still win often (not always) against a competent nuker.

As I mentioned, play the dagger's game, not the nuker's.
in 1 vs 1 sure a nuker would win..

but if said dagger would come behind the nuker without the nuker expecting him you have one dead nuker
Exactly Orca! Standing where the nuker can see you, when they have mana, when they are ready for you...isn't that playing the nuker's game? If you die to that....how stupid!

When the nuker is out of mana, in broken terrain, facing away, isn't that the dagger's game?

Play to your strengths, not your opponent's strengths. If you give your opponent the advantage you have no right to complain that you lost, since it was your own fault.
So...getting back to my questions..

Do Light Elves seem to take less damage than either Humans or Dark Elves? Do they get more Crits? Do Dark Elves do more damage?

This is both Dagger users and Archers.

And one more thing...

Here's the list of skills

Skill definitions (http://jute.dreamhosters.com/rogue_skills.htm)
Im just wondering, a nuker cant kite a Plainswalker can he?
Arent they very fast with thier natural speed + boost to speed?
Once they get to the nuker they can just hamstring right?
Or would a dagger class loose to a nuker face to face both going all out dmg and both standing still?
Great job on this chart. Something like this should be posted in the official Library...that way everyone will have a side by side analysis at their disposal before they choose their class.

I've played a human rogue, but never an LE or DE. However, I note that many of the skills that DE Rogues have are shared by DE fighters. Just this morning, while hunting with my HE, I found myself wishing that this class had Hex and Drains or Elemental Heals.

Not just on paper, but in practice I think Human Rogues could benefit from more added skills. They are certainly viable characters in their own right, but are sorely lacking in terms of the "wow" factor. The HE is probably the most boring archer class to play. Target, shoot, shoot, shoot, dead mob. There's no hexing, no entangling, no draining, barely any kiting unless it's a multiple xp mob, and hence very little suspense (i.e., fun).

But then that is the point. Most of the skill sets that DE's and LE's have are designed to offset some weakness of the species. Humans occupy the middle ground, so naturally there isn't much need for all of those interesting bells and whistles. But, man, I wish HE's did have a few chimes added in there anyway.

Im just wondering, a nuker cant kite a Plainswalker can he? You can Avoid an Arrow or a Sword/Dagger strike. You can NOT avoid an incoming fireball sent from a nuker your way.

Arent they very fast with thier natural speed + boost to speed? Relevance to this is? She is comparing all 3 Daggers, NOT just the Light elves. Light Elves run fast, everyone else are in the Meh cattegory....as far as running. Slugging out with mobs/pc's is not affected by how fast you run.

Or would a dagger class loose to a nuker face to face both going all out dmg and both standing still? If you(Dagger) come face to face with a nuker, you are Dead. You just haven't realized this yet. What Ram said, you need to play the game by Dagger rules, not nukers. Daggers have a Stun skill(they got it at lvl 35) the land rate might be low since they can't upgrade it anymore as they are Daggers not Rangers, but.....point is, you have the tools and with a bit of luck(assuming stun lands), you should play by your rules. If you get face to face with a Nuker, and then go: CHARGEEEEE!!!!! well, you probably should either Reroll or Avoid PvP with nukers.




By: Jute:
Do Light Elves seem to take less damage than either Humans or Dark Elves? I only have a Silver Ranger out of the 3, and at time I'm lazy enough to just stand there and take some pounding. I know for sure that the amount of punishment I can take from mobs in the field would most likely kill an equal level PR. I have no idea how much damage my SR vs HE can take though as I don't know any HE's on a friendly terms.

Do they get more Crits? Sometimes I chain crit for 5 or 7 times in a row, sometimes I get nothing but regular hits for 10+ times in a row. It depends. Roll a dice, will ya :p

Do Dark Elves do more damage? As compared to Light Elves? Hell yeah :( Case in point, my clanie is 10 levels lower than me, if we're in the same duo, powered by the same buffs, the damage he does as a PR matches and surpases mine, especially when he crits........which is nice.......considering he's 10+ levels lower than me. Again, no comment on HE's on this matter. I have no idea about them. When I was hunting for the Kris recipe, I did a few runs with another friend who is an AbyssWalker. His dagger was lvl 52, mob's lvl is 55 as you know, 2x HP mob type. His AW left a very sour "WOW" in my mouth after I watched him mow through mobs like there's no tomorow.

Thanks so much for that information! This is exactly what I was looking for. Any other Archers want to add anything?