What is the general view on the chance of dropping items on death?
Personally I hate it!! In one week thanks to lag and silly pulls I managed to drop (at different times) BW light armour, my BW boots and my BW helmet!! I was really lucky and got my stuff back each time :D - but since then I have been really paranoid about dropping more stuff. If I died and dropped something I had spent hours working for, I would find it hard to get back into the game.
I suppose the only thing drops on death is good for is when certain unmentionable 'players' die and drop their items, I got a bronze breastplate on my first day through that - but for me on balance the fear of dropping something outweighs the likelihood of finding a random piece of armour.
Does anyone like the drops on death thing? Why do we have it?
(I guess at some point this has been discussed before, but I could not find anything - and hey the oldies are always the goodies ^.^)
I dont think this is on topic eactly, but I find the whole drop thing strange. I always put over 50 items in my inventory so in case I die, I drop some crappy antidote or 1 ngss :D. But I tested this and more than always, I drop a weapon or armor such as my bow or sword. It happened 2 times today. I dont know how the whole thing works, but I thought it was random. Maybe I was wrong (NEVER :p).
For being white (dying to mobs and pkers), it seems stupid to loose expensive items like armor/weapon.. I can do fine with inventory items/perhaps jewelry because it aint that expensive, but weapon or armor? thats just plain cruel in my eyes..
for being red, drop baby drop (pvp wise, not pve), you took the risk, you deserve it :p I love being a nervous idiot working off my karma when im red.. Start attacking a mob, look around in all directions all the time so u can see if ppl have spotted you :p
Dropping PvE wise mostly benefits trainers and non-trustworthy pickup group members really, thats the sad part about it.. Hey, someone in my group died and this game made him drop.. lets take his xx million worth equipment and soe! :/
I like that dieing has consequences. Takes the fun away from the game when a death doesnt mean much to you (XP loss is bad.. but expected. And brezs arent that expensive for higher lvls). But the posisbility of dropping items like A grade helmets is kinda harsh. I'd hate to drop my helmet... as I have no idea what I'd do if I lost it. I doubt I could get another one without a LOT of effort, which Im not prepared to put in again. Dropping on death is also a lot harsher to soloing characters, as there isnt anyone around to ppick up their items.
Ive only ever dropped my helmet once, and my main peice of armour once. And both those drops I got back. I'm ok with the drop upon death rate the way it is.. I just hope the next time I drop my helm, there'll be someone I trust next to me to pick it up.
I didnt say it was fun to drop. I said it made the game more interesting when you run the risk of dropping. It means you actually care about dieing more than just the bother of having to find a rez.
If they made dying a trivial event, then what reason would you have to avoid it?
Ummm not wanting to have to make the trip back. After experience with this and other games, each with having differing death penalties, I can safely assure you that the risk of having to make the journey back to your leveling spot is more than enough of an incentive to not die. This is especially true when you are within an instanced dungeon, and dying means you have to restart the entire dungeon from the beginning.
So you run the risk of dropping, but what exactly does that mean? When you say it makes the game more fun, how does it become more fun? Because it adds the chance that you might have [censored] day were you to drop that majestic circlet? Can you truly maintain that having the chance to drop something you cannot replace,that you have worked months and months for, really adds to the level of fun you are having?
Lets even go a step further. Why don't we say you are going to drop your equipment for sure if you die 10 times starting now. Now knowing that upon your 10th death you are going to lose that majestic circlet, will have more or less fun for worry that you will lose it at some point in the future?
Of course you are going to reply with something along the lines of, "Yes it adds to my level of enjoyment by adding the exciting incentive of working to prevent my own death, even when I could die because I was griefed, because of lag, because of some unavoidable error, all of which are things beyond my own control. But it still exicites me to know I can lose something valuable to me, even when the added risk does not carry with it an added benefit, say of earning triple experience rates." And perhaps if you were to maintain your current mindset, this would be believeable, because you have a large number of deaths buffering you from that 10th death which will guarantee you lose the piece of equipment.
Now lets say you have died nine times, and in one more death, that majestic circlet is gone for good. Knowing that you can die to extraneous reasons in which you could not prevent your own death, so that you will end up losing that circlet regardless of any action or inaction you may have taken, could you still say the surety of losing that piece of equipment is adding enjoyment to your game play?
No of course you couldn't, and you would be right for not accepting it any longer. The surety of losing something you worked for, something you receive benefit from, is something no one has the right to take away from when you do nothing wrong.
And death should be a trivial event, as it really doesn't mean anything. Dying very well might mean you were doing something stupid, but it might just as well mean that something stupid and unavoidable happend to you. Then in the former case it is fine if death has some penalty, to prevent players from doing stupid things, but it certainly is not right to make death nontrivial when it is the result of something stupid happening to a player.
And really, seeing that this game is not teaching important life lessons, it is not teaching morals or anything useful, there is no need to hire a nanny to slap jonny's hand when he reaches for the cookie jar before dinner.
Ummm not wanting to have to make the trip back. After experience with this and other games, each with having differing death penalties, I can safely assure you that the risk of having to make the journey back to your leveling spot is more than enough of an incentive to not die. This is especially true when you are within an instanced dungeon, and dying means you have to restart the entire dungeon from the beginning.
So you run the risk of dropping, but what exactly does that mean? When you say it makes the game more fun, how does it become more fun? Because it adds the chance that you might have [censored] day were you to drop that majestic circlet? Can you truly maintain that having the chance to drop something you cannot replace,that you have worked months and months for, really adds to the level of fun you are having?
Lets even go a step further. Why don't we say you are going to drop your equipment for sure if you die 10 times starting now. Now knowing that upon your 10th death you are going to lose that majestic circlet, will have more or less fun for worry that you will lose it at some point in the future?
Of course you are going to reply with something along the lines of, "Yes it adds to my level of enjoyment by adding the exciting incentive of working to prevent my own death, even when I could die because I was griefed, because of lag, because of some unavoidable error, all of which are things beyond my own control. But it still exicites me to know I can lose something valuable to me, even when the added risk does not carry with it an added benefit, say of earning triple experience rates." And perhaps if you were to maintain your current mindset, this would be believeable, because you have a large number of deaths buffering you from that 10th death which will guarantee you lose the piece of equipment.
Now lets say you have died nine times, and in one more death, that majestic circlet is gone for good. Knowing that you can die to extraneous reasons in which you could not prevent your own death, so that you will end up losing that circlet regardless of any action or inaction you may have taken, could you still say the surety of losing that piece of equipment is adding enjoyment to your game play?
No of course you couldn't, and you would be right for not accepting it any longer. The surety of losing something you worked for, something you receive benefit from, is something no one has the right to take away from when you do nothing wrong.
And death should be a trivial event, as it really doesn't mean anything. Dying very well might mean you were doing something stupid, but it might just as well mean that something stupid and unavoidable happend to you. Then in the former case it is fine if death has some penalty, to prevent players from doing stupid things, but it certainly is not right to make death nontrivial when it is the result of something stupid happening to a player.
And really, seeing that this game is not teaching important life lessons, it is not teaching morals or anything useful, there is no need to hire a nanny to slap jonny's hand when he reaches for the cookie jar before dinner.
go back to WoW if you cant handle it. working back to your hunting spot difficult? Im a lvl 75 Elven Elder/52 Tyrant, I can get to any hunting spot with ease, no matter the lvl, it just requires being crafty. I.E. sleeping your way through and restarting to drop agro, or training on my tyrant and restarting to lose agro, ive trained up ToI on a 52 tyrant without dying and ive trained EVERYWHERE on my EE without dying. And yes it DOES suck having the chance to drop gear, but, i agree with the adding to the gameplay. It makes you more careful about dying. I tried WoW on a friends account for about a week, and I would die 5 jillion times a day and not care one bit cause you dont lose anything at all. Where's the fun in that? Go back to your "instance's" or learn how to play the **** game.
> but since then I have been really paranoid about dropping more stuff.
And here's the kicker, now that you ARE paranoied about dropping stuff, which means you are paranoid about dying - you suddenly have an INTENSIVE incentive to NOT die!
...what does this mean? Besodes the long article a few posts up by someone who doesn't agree, this means fighting for your life actually MEANS something. Surviving is suddenly meaningful, your in-game life has a meaning!
Screwing up politics or looking the wrong way at a bypassing player means you could get trained by them! Screwing up PvE is equally if not even worse. Meaning you should NOT go out and solo if you want to increase your chances of not dying, and on death increase the chance of getting your drops back.
Some people are so god **** anti-social! If you drop dead, drop your majestic circlet and don't have a partied friend to pick it up for you - YOU screwed up, noone else :)
And this constant feeling of real danger, because a drop like that would hurt for real, is what makes Lineage 2 so awesome. It's what makes PvP meaningful and challenging, because by gaining enemies you risk more while doing "PvE", especially if you do it alone or with one of those stupid buffbots.
Whenever you step outside a town, anything goes. Anything. Danger. Reward. Risk. Fun. You are not alone. Don't step out of town unless you are well prepared to face the true world outside! Bring company!
I tried WoW on a friends account for about a week, and I would die 5 jillion times a day and not care one bit cause you dont lose anything at all. Where's the fun in that?
it's fun for people who don't want to have high death penalites or drop gear. People really shouldn't compare the games becuase it's apples to oranges. One game is for people who want a lighhearted fun online game that won't suck up their lives.
For the rest of us there is L2
I remember a time when I dropped my Karmian top. This was in Dragon valley before you could port to Anthara's cave.
I had to run back with my extremely slow casting time (because mages need the robes for casting speed, take off the robe and you will see a difference) went to the area where I dropped the top, searched frantically but someone must have picked it up... and died again.
Ummm not wanting to have to make the trip back. After experience with this and other games, each with having differing death penalties, I can safely assure you that the risk of having to make the journey back to your leveling spot is more than enough of an incentive to not die. This is especially true when you are within an instanced dungeon, and dying means you have to restart the entire dungeon from the beginning.
So you run the risk of dropping, but what exactly does that mean? When you say it makes the game more fun, how does it become more fun? Because it adds the chance that you might have [censored] day were you to drop that majestic circlet? Can you truly maintain that having the chance to drop something you cannot replace,that you have worked months and months for, really adds to the level of fun you are having?
Lets even go a step further. Why don't we say you are going to drop your equipment for sure if you die 10 times starting now. Now knowing that upon your 10th death you are going to lose that majestic circlet, will have more or less fun for worry that you will lose it at some point in the future?
Of course you are going to reply with something along the lines of, "Yes it adds to my level of enjoyment by adding the exciting incentive of working to prevent my own death, even when I could die because I was griefed, because of lag, because of some unavoidable error, all of which are things beyond my own control. But it still exicites me to know I can lose something valuable to me, even when the added risk does not carry with it an added benefit, say of earning triple experience rates." And perhaps if you were to maintain your current mindset, this would be believeable, because you have a large number of deaths buffering you from that 10th death which will guarantee you lose the piece of equipment.
Now lets say you have died nine times, and in one more death, that majestic circlet is gone for good. Knowing that you can die to extraneous reasons in which you could not prevent your own death, so that you will end up losing that circlet regardless of any action or inaction you may have taken, could you still say the surety of losing that piece of equipment is adding enjoyment to your game play?
No of course you couldn't, and you would be right for not accepting it any longer. The surety of losing something you worked for, something you receive benefit from, is something no one has the right to take away from when you do nothing wrong.
And death should be a trivial event, as it really doesn't mean anything. Dying very well might mean you were doing something stupid, but it might just as well mean that something stupid and unavoidable happend to you. Then in the former case it is fine if death has some penalty, to prevent players from doing stupid things, but it certainly is not right to make death nontrivial when it is the result of something stupid happening to a player.
And really, seeing that this game is not teaching important life lessons, it is not teaching morals or anything useful, there is no need to hire a nanny to slap jonny's hand when he reaches for the cookie jar before dinner.
I must say I agree with you. With the XP penalty on dying, I have no problem. But the chance of dropping equipment, is stupid. It adds nothing more then grief and frustration, especially when you've done nothing wrong to deserve it, as is the case many times. Working your a*s off for months to get that A helmet only to have it dropped and lost in a matter of minutes simply due to lag, a train or anything stupid like that, is, well, just wrong.
What exactly does your Blessed Scroll Of Escape do? Does it bring you back to the spot where you where or died or dropped stuff? And I thought you couldn't drop your weapon that you were equipped with? I understand you can drop gear and other weapons that you might have on you but I thought you couldn't drop your weapon in your hand? I could be wrong I was just told this in the game you couldn't!
The danger of dropping items makes the game real and intense. I am all for it. Without the risk of dropping items on death, the game would be too light...even with the exp loss.
What exactly does your Blessed Scroll Of Escape do? Does it bring you back to the spot where you where or died or dropped stuff? And I thought you couldn't drop your weapon that you were equipped with? I understand you can drop gear and other weapons that you might have on you but I thought you couldn't drop your weapon in your hand? I could be wrong I was just told this in the game you couldn't!
BSOE works exactly like a regularly SOE -- but faster. You instantly leave the area and return to the nearest town.
There IS a tension when playing L2 that is kinda cool...worry, nervousness, alertness. I don't know exactly what to call it.
That sense pervades this game...and I find I like it.
At this point I have only lower level toons (2 through 2nd class change and some alts) but even at those levels the reality of dropping makes the game "important" somehow. Hey, when you only have 1 million adena in WH--even dropping +3 Brig stuff is tense!
I would be disappointed if the drop system changed at this point (and yes, I can appreciate that dropping a 26 million adena weapon would be devastating).
How many folks with high B and A or even S gear are soloing around anyway? I solo very little anymore in the low 40's. Friend or companion or clan can be counted on (usually) to return drops.
I've even returned items to strangers when I rezzed them (just to be nice).
Keep the drop system--it's like pking--necessary or L2 isn't really L2 imo.
To the OP--would you mind if I followed you around for awhile? :)
I think it definitely makes the game more interesting. I've never lost anything substantial on death that I didn't get back (except a full plate helm... :mad:). Besides, it's like Christmas when you find someone else's unclaimed drop (thanks for the +4 Brig Tunic, whoever you are!).
Oh, and this time some DE noob dropped a Karmian top in DV? That really helped me out! :cool:
Dropping equipped items on PvE death for innocent characters I find pointless. For RBGs it's a pain as you have to simply sort out everyone's dropped equipment. Sometimes I simply lose things because I don't remember everything in my inventory and the log scrolls too quickly.
The biggest issue though is that it allows innocent chars to be trained and lose their equipment. This is opposite of the PvP rule on innocent characters and therefore inconsistant.
I definitely think items on red chars should drop in PvP. I have no issue with the XP penalties on death in this game. But the item drop in PvE doesn't serve any purpose. It doesn't make me want to die less (XP penalty is big enough for that) but it does make it more of a pain and a hastle and can be used to circumvent the usual PvP drop rules via trains. For those reasons, I don't think it should be in the game.
Wey you seem to be of the opinion that people need to group, that we shouldn't be allowed to solo. But some of us like doing it, especially when we don't want to spend hours and hours shouting "LFG", only to still end up groupless. And when you only have two hours to play that day, is it really worth the time to spend half of it looking for a group, and then half of the half traveling with the group to the hunting spot, to be left with more than half an hour for hunting, and that at a rate comparable to what you would have earned solo? Not really, I'd rather, and do, spend the full two hours soloing, using the alliance chat to keep myself entertained. Sure I do group when I have more time, but that is only when the first hour spent searching for a group will not be a considerable portion of the time I will actually spend playing for that day, which looks to be a sensible use of my time. Group when you have time for it, and not when you don't.
And I have been in party situations where someone died and dropped, someone else in the party picked it up, and then never returned the item to its rightful owner. So for sure, there is no way to guarantee that if you do die and drop, you are going to get the item back. Well maybe you could guarantee you would get it back, if you also control every other person in the party, but I only have one account, so for me this isn't possible.
When you can die in the game because of you encountered an error, or had a spat of lag, or a random and rare enounter with a 5 aggro and social mob resapwn which you could not live through, or someone sneaks up behind you, catches you unawares and then mortal blows you to death while you are busy trying to not die while fighting a mob, then we cans ee there are a variety of reasons why you can die when there is nothing you could have done to prevent that death.
Now you can play this game in a variety of ways which will guarantee that you won't die and drop equipment, such as never logging onto that character, but is that really playing the game?
Once you take your first step outside of town, no matter where you are and what level you are, you face the possibility of ending up in a situation where you can die, but there is nothing you could have done to prevent that death.
Thus while fighting for your life might mean something, when there is something you can actively do to prevent the death; dying when you cannot prevent that death does not, yet the game makes no consideration for the difference, nor indeed does your argument.
And I would provide a counterargument to another point, it is this constant feeling of dread and paranoia that you might lose something irreplaceable, be it that 4 hours of your life you spent grinding, or that majestic circlet, which makes pvp rarer than it would have been otherwise, and more discouraging than it need be. I certainly don't see how it makes it challenging, especially with the current state of the game. There is not so much skill and challenge as raw luck, or simply having sufficiently higher numbers than another person, both of which can guarantee success even when the player behind the wheel is incompetent.
Furthermore, when you say the risk adds to the fun, would you say there was more funt o be had for having that article of clothing drop, or when that article of clothing did not drop? Do not answer this based assuming it had a chance to drop, answer to according to the time when you have had equipment drop, and then tell me if you wouldn't have had a better day had you not dropped that article.
Noone, I think, is able to say there day was better for having actually had that equipment drop, They can argue, until they are blue in the face, that the risk makes the game more fun, but none can disagree that their day was made worse for having actually done so.
Perhaps, the people who say the risk adds to the fun, are inwardly optimistic, and believe they really have no chance of dropping an item, so the idea that there is a chance, which they don't believe they ever will do, of dropping an item simply hightens their pleasure. Then I, as a pessimist who upon seeing there is a risk of dropping equipment, automatically assume I am going to drop equipment upon my next death with surety, and so view the problem differently.
At the end of the day, it is afterall, only a game, so none of it means anything anyway. So whether death is made to mean more than it is, is entirely arbitrary. It is only part of a game and so it can mean nothing, no matter how much you try to attach to it. Even if death were on a more permanent basis, where upon dying, your character, and everything on it, are deleted forever and you must restart from scratch, death still would have no more real meaning than it did if nothing ever happened were you to die. The only difference is, in the scenario where you lose everything, the player will become anguished before restarting from scratch. and in the other scenario they wouldn't, there was never any higher lesser to be learned, no one is better off for the experience, hence why I call it meaningless. Then why anyone would feel the need to make one person suffer from playing a game when they are not made better for the experience is beyond me.
Certainly dropping clothing can be make someting more meaningful and fun even when it happens randomly, but that only holds true for strip poker, which Lineage 2 is not.
Wey you seem to be of the opinion that people need to group, that we shouldn't be allowed to solo. But some of us like doing it, especially when we don't want to spend hours and hours shouting "LFG", only to still end up groupless. And when you only have two hours to play that day, is it really worth the time to spend half of it looking for a group, and then half of the half traveling with the group to the hunting spot, to be left with more than half an hour for hunting, and that at a rate comparable to what you would have earned solo? Not really, I'd rather, and do, spend the full two hours soloing, using the alliance chat to keep myself entertained. Sure I do group when I have more time, but that is only when the first hour spent searching for a group will not be a considerable portion of the time I will actually spend playing for that day, which looks to be a sensible use of my time. Group when you have time for it, and not when you don't.
And I have been in party situations where someone died and dropped, someone else in the party picked it up, and then never returned the item to its rightful owner. So for sure, there is no way to guarantee that if you do die and drop, you are going to get the item back. Well maybe you could guarantee you would get it back, if you also control every other person in the party, but I only have one account, so for me this isn't possible.
When you can die in the game because of you encountered an error, or had a spat of lag, or a random and rare enounter with a 5 aggro and social mob resapwn which you could not live through, or someone sneaks up behind you, catches you unawares and then mortal blows you to death while you are busy trying to not die while fighting a mob, then we cans ee there are a variety of reasons why you can die when there is nothing you could have done to prevent that death.
Now you can play this game in a variety of ways which will guarantee that you won't die and drop equipment, such as never logging onto that character, but is that really playing the game?
Once you take your first step outside of town, no matter where you are and what level you are, you face the possibility of ending up in a situation where you can die, but there is nothing you could have done to prevent that death.
Thus while fighting for your life might mean something, when there is something you can actively do to prevent the death; dying when you cannot prevent that death does not, yet the game makes no consideration for the difference, nor indeed does your argument.
And I would provide a counterargument to another point, it is this constant feeling of dread and paranoia that you might lose something irreplaceable, be it that 4 hours of your life you spent grinding, or that majestic circlet, which makes pvp rarer than it would have been otherwise, and more discouraging than it need be. I certainly don't see how it makes it challenging, especially with the current state of the game. There is not so much skill and challenge as raw luck, or simply having sufficiently higher numbers than another person, both of which can guarantee success even when the player behind the wheel is incompetent.
Furthermore, when you say the risk adds to the fun, would you say there was more funt o be had for having that article of clothing drop, or when that article of clothing did not drop? Do not answer this based assuming it had a chance to drop, answer to according to the time when you have had equipment drop, and then tell me if you wouldn't have had a better day had you not dropped that article.
Noone, I think, is able to say there day was better for having actually had that equipment drop, They can argue, until they are blue in the face, that the risk makes the game more fun, but none can disagree that their day was made worse for having actually done so.
Perhaps, the people who say the risk adds to the fun, are inwardly optimistic, and believe they really have no chance of dropping an item, so the idea that there is a chance, which they don't believe they ever will do, of dropping an item simply hightens their pleasure. Then I, as a pessimist who upon seeing there is a risk of dropping equipment, automatically assume I am going to drop equipment upon my next death with surety, and so view the problem differently.
At the end of the day, it is afterall, only a game, so none of it means anything anyway. So whether death is made to mean more than it is, is entirely arbitrary. It is only part of a game and so it can mean nothing, no matter how much you try to attach to it. Even if death were on a more permanent basis, where upon dying, your character, and everything on it, are deleted forever and you must restart from scratch, death still would have no more real meaning than it did if nothing ever happened were you to die. The only difference is, in the scenario where you lose everything, the player will become anguished before restarting from scratch. and in the other scenario they wouldn't, there was never any higher lesser to be learned, no one is better off for the experience, hence why I call it meaningless. Then why anyone would feel the need to make one person suffer from playing a game when they are not made better for the experience is beyond me.
Certainly dropping clothing can be make someting more meaningful and fun even when it happens randomly, but that only holds true for strip poker, which Lineage 2 is not.
Eliky: Since you brought up WoW, let me ask you this:
How would you play WoW if there was a chance to loose XP? Seeing as you don't loose XP in WoW either, how would it be when you had a risk of loosing it, when the fact is that a person playing WoW runs a greater risk at dying simply because mobs there can heal/cast special spells/run to get friends etc (with less distance than L2) unlike Lineage II? Would you not be more considerate if that risk was there? IMO comparing the two is just stupid, its like saying that apples and oranges are just the same.
Ellisande: Nice post! You summed it up pretty well in my thoughts. Imo, equipped item drops in PvE is just silly because time spent for the equipment is of a greater value than the paranoia pleasure in the game.
When my alliance was in our longest durating war, I was more paranoid about the enemies gank groups than I was for our equipment. I would go looking around constantly, checking the opening to our room constantly. Why? Because there would always be those who took the time to go down in dungeons to just kill us so we couldnt level up or to delevel us. imo what counts in this game is numbers and skill, if you have both ur far more superior to the other, so ofc you would want to level to get on equal or better grounds.
What keeps players from going down a path to fight their enemies? Loosing their equipment.. The horrid thought of dropping your valuable equipment you spent so long to get, not the mobs nor the XP. If you say that you wouldnt drop equipment unless your red, what would keep you from going down that path? XP. the time spent leveling. It is less scaring, thus you might just risk it to go PvP your enemies.
Having possible enemies coming, thats what keeps me paranoid, thats the feeling I enjoy :) Ofc, different people, different enjoyments, different thoughts, but you can't please everybody. The opinions I make here are mine, not yours so ofc we will differ. We play this game because we like it differently, no use telling people to go enjoy WoW if there is one thing they don't like in this game, when in fact they might enjoy the 98 other % :)
Im all for dropping when your red thought.. why? Because thats another thing, you made the choice of killing that white player, its a concequense of your actions, you have to be paranoid about your equipment as a toll for your actions. PvE however, its just silly.
Well, for those of you that think it adds to the game, I have this suggestion. We have a switch that we can turn chance of drop on or off so those of you that enjoy the risk can have at it, enjoy, live on the edge, whatever floats your boat. Those of us that don't like it can go about our business without bothering your playstyle and we all enjoy the game. My, what a wonderful idea.
Nothing quite like running for 20 minutes to a prime hunting location (prime = no professional ancillary gaming types), encountering a lag death, dropping not one, not two, but 5 items (I dropped my SOL, mith tunic, great helm, elv mith gloves, and an Elven ring on one lag death) and having to race all the way back to your prime location, hoping all the while that (A.) the server doesn't restart; (B) no other player sees your equipment and claims it for their own; and (C) you don't get killed by the various aggro mobs that had little difficulty killing you while you were fully equipped, let alone partially clothed and weaponless. Yes, I made it back and recovered the items, a train of mobs behind me. I actually died again just as I picked up all of the items. Fortunately I didn't drop anything on the second death.
Ahhhh, the good old days of C1.
Huh? What do you mean things haven't changed???? :)
Full plate helmet + mermaid neclace. Lag death, no karma involved. Died a few times truing to get them (mostly due to rushing, but some lag as well). Did not recovered the items..
Nothing quite like running for 20 minutes to a prime hunting location (prime = no professional ancillary gaming types), encountering a lag death, dropping not one, not two, but 5 items (I dropped my SOL, mith tunic, great helm, elv mith gloves, and an Elven ring on one lag death) and having to race all the way back to your prime location, hoping all the while that (A.) the server doesn't restart; (B) no other player sees your equipment and claims it for their own; and (C) you don't get killed by the various aggro mobs that had little difficulty killing you while you were fully equipped, let alone partially clothed and weaponless. Yes, I made it back and recovered the items, a train of mobs behind me. I actually died again just as I picked up all of the items. Fortunately I didn't drop anything on the second death.
Ahhhh, the good old days of C1.
Huh? What do you mean things haven't changed???? :)
OHHH... I'm geting flashbacks... OHHH.. THE PAIN!!! :confused:
Wey you seem to be of the opinion that people need to group, that we shouldn't be allowed to solo. But some of us like doing it, especially when we don't want to spend hours and hours shouting "LFG", only to still end up groupless. And when you only have two hours to play that day, is it really worth the time to spend half of it looking for a group, and then half of the half traveling with the group to the hunting spot, to be left with more than half an hour for hunting, and that at a rate comparable to what you would have earned solo? Not really, I'd rather, and do, spend the full two hours soloing, using the alliance chat to keep myself entertained. Sure I do group when I have more time, but that is only when the first hour spent searching for a group will not be a considerable portion of the time I will actually spend playing for that day, which looks to be a sensible use of my time. Group when you have time for it, and not when you don't.
And I have been in party situations where someone died and dropped, someone else in the party picked it up, and then never returned the item to its rightful owner. So for sure, there is no way to guarantee that if you do die and drop, you are going to get the item back. Well maybe you could guarantee you would get it back, if you also control every other person in the party, but I only have one account, so for me this isn't possible.
When you can die in the game because of you encountered an error, or had a spat of lag, or a random and rare enounter with a 5 aggro and social mob resapwn which you could not live through, or someone sneaks up behind you, catches you unawares and then mortal blows you to death while you are busy trying to not die while fighting a mob, then we cans ee there are a variety of reasons why you can die when there is nothing you could have done to prevent that death.
Now you can play this game in a variety of ways which will guarantee that you won't die and drop equipment, such as never logging onto that character, but is that really playing the game?
Once you take your first step outside of town, no matter where you are and what level you are, you face the possibility of ending up in a situation where you can die, but there is nothing you could have done to prevent that death.
Thus while fighting for your life might mean something, when there is something you can actively do to prevent the death; dying when you cannot prevent that death does not, yet the game makes no consideration for the difference, nor indeed does your argument.
And I would provide a counterargument to another point, it is this constant feeling of dread and paranoia that you might lose something irreplaceable, be it that 4 hours of your life you spent grinding, or that majestic circlet, which makes pvp rarer than it would have been otherwise, and more discouraging than it need be. I certainly don't see how it makes it challenging, especially with the current state of the game. There is not so much skill and challenge as raw luck, or simply having sufficiently higher numbers than another person, both of which can guarantee success even when the player behind the wheel is incompetent.
Furthermore, when you say the risk adds to the fun, would you say there was more funt o be had for having that article of clothing drop, or when that article of clothing did not drop? Do not answer this based assuming it had a chance to drop, answer to according to the time when you have had equipment drop, and then tell me if you wouldn't have had a better day had you not dropped that article.
Noone, I think, is able to say there day was better for having actually had that equipment drop, They can argue, until they are blue in the face, that the risk makes the game more fun, but none can disagree that their day was made worse for having actually done so.
Perhaps, the people who say the risk adds to the fun, are inwardly optimistic, and believe they really have no chance of dropping an item, so the idea that there is a chance, which they don't believe they ever will do, of dropping an item simply hightens their pleasure. Then I, as a pessimist who upon seeing there is a risk of dropping equipment, automatically assume I am going to drop equipment upon my next death with surety, and so view the problem differently.
At the end of the day, it is afterall, only a game, so none of it means anything anyway. So whether death is made to mean more than it is, is entirely arbitrary. It is only part of a game and so it can mean nothing, no matter how much you try to attach to it. Even if death were on a more permanent basis, where upon dying, your character, and everything on it, are deleted forever and you must restart from scratch, death still would have no more real meaning than it did if nothing ever happened were you to die. The only difference is, in the scenario where you lose everything, the player will become anguished before restarting from scratch. and in the other scenario they wouldn't, there was never any higher lesser to be learned, no one is better off for the experience, hence why I call it meaningless. Then why anyone would feel the need to make one person suffer from playing a game when they are not made better for the experience is beyond me.
Certainly dropping clothing can be make someting more meaningful and fun even when it happens randomly, but that only holds true for strip poker, which Lineage 2 is not.
This sounds like a script for Mojo Jojo from Power Puff Girls. :eek:
"That is not how I sound like, that is not an accurate imitation of myself who is I Mojo JoJo, who is now speaking. I am curt, succinct, to the point...."
The exact quotations are too troublesome to find :p
Wey you seem to be of the opinion that people need to group, that we shouldn't be allowed to solo. But some of us like doing it, especially when we don't want to spend hours and hours shouting "LFG", only to still end up groupless. And when you only have two hours to play that day, is it really worth the time to spend half of it looking for a group, and then half of the half traveling with the group to the hunting spot, to be left with more than half an hour for hunting, and that at a rate comparable to what you would have earned solo? Not really, I'd rather, and do, spend the full two hours soloing, using the alliance chat to keep myself entertained. Sure I do group when I have more time, but that is only when the first hour spent searching for a group will not be a considerable portion of the time I will actually spend playing for that day, which looks to be a sensible use of my time. Group when you have time for it, and not when you don't.
And I have been in party situations where someone died and dropped, someone else in the party picked it up, and then never returned the item to its rightful owner. So for sure, there is no way to guarantee that if you do die and drop, you are going to get the item back. Well maybe you could guarantee you would get it back, if you also control every other person in the party, but I only have one account, so for me this isn't possible.
When you can die in the game because of you encountered an error, or had a spat of lag, or a random and rare enounter with a 5 aggro and social mob resapwn which you could not live through, or someone sneaks up behind you, catches you unawares and then mortal blows you to death while you are busy trying to not die while fighting a mob, then we cans ee there are a variety of reasons why you can die when there is nothing you could have done to prevent that death.
Now you can play this game in a variety of ways which will guarantee that you won't die and drop equipment, such as never logging onto that character, but is that really playing the game?
Once you take your first step outside of town, no matter where you are and what level you are, you face the possibility of ending up in a situation where you can die, but there is nothing you could have done to prevent that death.
Thus while fighting for your life might mean something, when there is something you can actively do to prevent the death; dying when you cannot prevent that death does not, yet the game makes no consideration for the difference, nor indeed does your argument.
And I would provide a counterargument to another point, it is this constant feeling of dread and paranoia that you might lose something irreplaceable, be it that 4 hours of your life you spent grinding, or that majestic circlet, which makes pvp rarer than it would have been otherwise, and more discouraging than it need be. I certainly don't see how it makes it challenging, especially with the current state of the game. There is not so much skill and challenge as raw luck, or simply having sufficiently higher numbers than another person, both of which can guarantee success even when the player behind the wheel is incompetent.
Furthermore, when you say the risk adds to the fun, would you say there was more funt o be had for having that article of clothing drop, or when that article of clothing did not drop? Do not answer this based assuming it had a chance to drop, answer to according to the time when you have had equipment drop, and then tell me if you wouldn't have had a better day had you not dropped that article.
Noone, I think, is able to say there day was better for having actually had that equipment drop, They can argue, until they are blue in the face, that the risk makes the game more fun, but none can disagree that their day was made worse for having actually done so.
Perhaps, the people who say the risk adds to the fun, are inwardly optimistic, and believe they really have no chance of dropping an item, so the idea that there is a chance, which they don't believe they ever will do, of dropping an item simply hightens their pleasure. Then I, as a pessimist who upon seeing there is a risk of dropping equipment, automatically assume I am going to drop equipment upon my next death with surety, and so view the problem differently.
At the end of the day, it is afterall, only a game, so none of it means anything anyway. So whether death is made to mean more than it is, is entirely arbitrary. It is only part of a game and so it can mean nothing, no matter how much you try to attach to it. Even if death were on a more permanent basis, where upon dying, your character, and everything on it, are deleted forever and you must restart from scratch, death still would have no more real meaning than it did if nothing ever happened were you to die. The only difference is, in the scenario where you lose everything, the player will become anguished before restarting from scratch. and in the other scenario they wouldn't, there was never any higher lesser to be learned, no one is better off for the experience, hence why I call it meaningless. Then why anyone would feel the need to make one person suffer from playing a game when they are not made better for the experience is beyond me.
Certainly dropping clothing can be make someting more meaningful and fun even when it happens randomly, but that only holds true for strip poker, which Lineage 2 is not.
This sounds like a script for Mojo Jojo from Power Puff Girls. :eek:
"That is not how I sound like, that is not an accurate imitation of myself who is I Mojo JoJo, who is now speaking. I am curt, succinct, to the point...."
The exact quotations are too troublesome to find :p
It's not of any universal significance, but I didn't understand anything of what you just wrote :confused:
It's not of any universal significance, but I didn't understand anything of what you just wrote :confused:
:( You are right, it is no universal significance. Yet, another day with disscommucation, and uninformation. I just amused myself, and try to point out that too much contemplations is too much for average joe.
I dont think the original poster of this thread was trying to start up an argument.. just wondering who thought what.
I like partying or soloing in dangerous areas, where its difficult to stay alive. It makes the grind significantly less boring when soloing if you are fighting for your life... rather than fighting to prevent yourself the inconvenience of walking back to your hunting spot. But thats just my opinion.
And in no way whatsoever does dropping prevent people form pvping. You dont drop in PvP unless your red and have 5+ PKs. Theres a quest to prevent you going over 5 PKs... so I really dont see how dropping in pve has anything to do with pvp.
Lag, Crit Errors, and Server Crashes that cause potential loss of items are a problem. I lost a pair of elven mithril boots when I was 35ish to a server crash. I nuked, server lagged, I relogged and no boots + dead character. Its not fun, I didnt like it... but I accepted it and moved on. I guess its a trade off isnt it. Element of danger and risk of loosing something important, or no element of danger, and no risk of significant loss.
I wouldnt be upset if they removed item dropping on death. But you have to understand that there are some people out there that like this element of danger, and no amount of argueing is gonna change that. And no amount of argueing is gonna make NC change anything either :p
wait can u drop an item when u die if ur not flagged?
No, you will not drop items when you are white and die, ever. Neither when killed by players nor when killed by mobs. They changed the rules for dropping items - instead of dropping something, you now get the death penalty. Those posts up there are from times long gone by when you could drop stuff.