*sigh*
After reading the translated skill list, I am once again asking myself, why I still keep playing Lineage2.
From Chronicle to Chronicle I am hoping for a new skill or a change to the existing skills of the bounty hunters, that will make the class worth playing some more (or again, as some would say).
And what can I see in the skill list as it is now ?
- Daggers get Might mortal as skill. Do they need it ? Yes, I think so.
- Tanks getting new overhit skills. Do they need them ? Yes, I think so.
- ....
Many new skills get added to a variety of classes.
However Bounty Hunters and Warsmiths get the following:
1. a toggle skill, which increases polearm accuracy
2. a toggle skill, which increases resistance to sleep and shock
Both skills drain MP.
For the Bounty Hunter using a blunt weapon (or anything but a pole), who is not constantly engaging in PvP, both skills are worthless. I cannot think of a single time, where I had hoped for such a skill, as they are now added.
Bounty Hunters in addition do not have the MP to use any toggle skills in PvE fights, regardless of being grouped or not.
I sure hope for the skill list to be incomplete still.
Of course I will still be playing Lineage2, and I will still keep my dwarf as a main, but it gets more and more depressing with every chronicle passing.
In Chronicle 2, I had offered a bet of 100.000a on the german fansite, that the dwarves in total will get no more than 1 skill added by C4, which is actually worth using, that not all other classes get too (like fishing).
I won that bet.
I am willing to increase that bet to 1.000.000a for C5 as I really lost the faith in the development on the dwarven part.
The developers obviously are dwarf haters and deserve their kneecaps smashed !
At least you did not get nerfed, like SE. Instead of only buffing the classes who needed it, like EE, they did the buffing AND nerfed SE, too. Which pretty much makes the SE a useless class now as a main char to actually be played. SE=the new prophet. Guess the witch hunt paid off, for the last chronicle SE was not "overpowered" at all, people were just too stupid to realize that e.g. bishop was a pretty good class actually and insisted on getting a SE for their party. And now the players with SE main pay the price.
Sorry, but spoiling A-Grade recipes is not benefitting the Bounty Hunter, it is benefitting the group, the bounty hunter is in, as in those reagions, there is no way in hell, that a BH can solo.
If I am able to spoil a recipe, and then some blondie gets it, while I get absolutely nothing, I do not see that as anything positive for the BHs.
We always get 100% the same darn skills as WS do, but beside that WS always have there golem wich meens twice the damage yes in fact the golem have more then the summoners damage evne... almost double....
And wherent this chronicle about balance the classes? Right now an WS beat an BH without even us scrating the WS HP in the first place. I'm quite afraid thoght that NCSoft can't see this, they are completly blind in this aspect as it's ben there since C1 this extream difference in balance. And so far the prommese to balance PvP have offered NOTHING OF THIS SORT. Thers no balance comming aparently not even with our classes.
Yes being able to spoil A grade armor recipes dosnt make up for the PvP aspect in this game to, all chars should have the right to be able to PvP at teh same grounds and have the same grounds to win, it should only go down to the skill of the player playing it's class, This is what makes an Fun PvP game.
But yeah I can't see NCSoFt give BH's any exclusive power to be able to be as usefull or anything beter then teh worst melee (side with side with warlord ) and give us something for ONCE.
Sorry, but spoiling A-Grade recipes is not benefitting the Bounty Hunter, it is benefitting the group,
Create a party matching window "BH WTSpoil Maj.Circlet Recipe". Then say you will pay 1M (or whatever) to each party member if you succeed. You know how to configure party drop options, don't you?
Sorry, but spoiling A-Grade recipes is not benefitting the Bounty Hunter, it is benefitting the group,
Create a party matching window "BH WTSpoil Maj.Circlet Recipe". Then say you will pay 1M (or whatever) to each party member if you succeed. You know how to configure party drop options, don't you?
Why should an BH pay the group for a spoil of his own?
And it the oposit, the group pay him for atl east 50% if a good spoil come up ? As you gained a good spoil, and it was all thanks to the BH in the group.
Create a party matching window "BH WTSpoil Maj.Circlet Recipe". Then say you will pay 1M (or whatever) to each party member if you succeed. You know how to configure party drop options, don't you?
Why should an BH pay the group for a spoil of his own?
To make some nice adena from the sale of the recipe. And, by the way, if the recipe has not been spoiled, you keep your money and still get all the extra spoil from the party.
Just double-check you party drop options, though :D
Ok. Have you ever tried to get a group setup like that ?
Has it ever succeeded ?
Or other way round, would you join such a group or allow a BH in your group with that settings ?
And do not belittle me, I know, how to set party loot options to not share spoils. But from experience, I also know, that it is a really small party (1 person) with that settings.
Real Kitten
@Loth: I am cuddly to people, who deserve it, which automatically excludes Elfes and non-dwarves.
Ok. Have you ever tried to get a group setup like that ?
Has it ever succeeded ?
Back in C1? Yes, every time :D
Or other way round, would you join such a group or allow a BH in your group with that settings ?
See no problem in that, especially if the BH pays.
Why the hell should we have to pay you anything. The fact is, you shouldn't even see whether the mob turns blue or any spoil we do get. That was the mistake NCSoft made. If I have to sacrifice PvP skills and ability for my spoil skill then you should not even know what I'm getting, if anything. You want spoils, roll a BH.
That is the problem with the whole dwarf situation. Originally our skills were unique to us. By choosing dwarf we knowingly gave up a significant portion of our PvP ability so that we would have an edge on money making by spoiling/crafting.
I don't really mind them being shared, I think it really adds flavor to the game, and is more fun for everybody. The real problem is that we have never gotten any skills to make up for the fact that we lost our money making edge.
At least WS's get their golems and hog cannons. BH's don't get squat. We are by far the least PvP friendly of ANY class, with WS's coming in a very close second.
Putting skills and stuff aside... The dwarf has taken a hit every chronicle at the mear idea that they are a money making race. It's becoming harder and harder to make a honest adena these days.
Or other way round, would you join such a group or allow a BH in your group with that settings ?
See no problem in that, especially if the BH pays.
Why the hell should we have to pay you anything.
Looks like you'd better play an Orc.
You want to get some nice money from the sale of that recipe? Yes or no? If yes, please consider how much you are going to invest in getting one.
That is the problem with the whole dwarf situation. Originally our skills were unique to us. By choosing dwarf we knowingly gave up a significant portion of our PvP ability so that we would have an edge on money making by spoiling/crafting.
Well... as a healer, I am probably supposed to show some compassion to you poor dwarves...
I don't really mind them being shared, I think it really adds flavor to the game, and is more fun for everybody. The real problem is that we have never gotten any skills to make up for the fact that we lost our money making edge.
You either know how to make money, or not. And "press F1, then F2, then F3, repeat" is not a way to make money, sorry. At least, not for a dwarf.
If you are aoeing in a spot that has alot of aoe stun mobs(middle rooms of martyrs) I can see how the stun/sleep toggle could be very helpful. Plus it isn't like you need to keep it on. Especially when your in a corner aoe group(I.E catacombs). Anyway if you have Tallum light to switch to inbetween the pulls you shouldn't run out of mp.
Plus it just makes us more usefull in pvp.
If you actually need the polearm accuracy in pve, then your doing something wrong. Why would a BH ever wanna be aoeing Blood red mobs? Less spoils and we would take more damage. NCsoft probably just gave this to us because they were giving all of the polearms the skill.
It sure would have been nice to replace that polearm accuracy with an increase M def or a mp regen skill.
You either know how to make money, or not. And "press F1, then F2, then F3, repeat" is not a way to make money, sorry. At least, not for a dwarf.
If that is supposed to relate to "playing the market" or anything close, I'd like to know, how that would be dwarf related then.
Everyone can play the market.
Everyone can do manor.
Everyone can do the same quests.
Everyone can craft in shops.
Everyone can overenchant.
Only Dwarves can spoil and that is always shared with the rest of the group.
Thank you. What did I miss about making money as a dwarf, that is unique to dwarves ?
Questioning Kitten
edit: @bunny:
So you are also saying, that the C5-skills are bringing absolutely NOTHING for blunt dwarves.
Yes, I agree with that.
Why would a dwarf only be a blunt dwarf? I always have both my blunt and polearm. It took me until 70+ to afford both :) however I finally got one.
I would advise any dwarf to have their main weapon as a polearm and when you can afford a blunt pick one up. My only blunt for the longest time was my guild club ^^
You either know how to make money, or not. And "press F1, then F2, then F3, repeat" is not a way to make money, sorry. At least, not for a dwarf.
If that is supposed to relate to "playing the market" or anything close, I'd like to know, how that would be dwarf related then.
Everyone can play the market.
First of all, everyone can roll a dwarf alt. If you are going to make more money than most people in this game, you, not your toon, should be somehow unique.
Only Dwarves can spoil and that is always shared with the rest of the group.
No, not always. And even if it is, you can still benefit from that if your party is not just random pick-up.
Thank you. What did I miss about making money as a dwarf, that is unique to dwarves ?
I've already said that. Getting compensated for making spoil raids.
Nobody who doesnt play a Dwarf themselves understands their plight. People just see the dwarves who sit in their groups and spoil [censored], but they dont see the 6 hours looking for that group, or them trying to sell the 120 mats they spoiled, when the manor farmers have 5000 to sell...
all i can offer as advice to dwarves is to hunt in the new solo areas. surely the instant items will help you.
also, dwarf + EE for pve makes an excellent duo. a BH in a cata with nothing but potions and a 1h blunt+shield can solo effectively on green mobs. dont tell me they cant, i have done it.
pvping with a dwarf gets easy with 1 of 2 accomplices; a bish or a paladin.
pala aoe hold, dwarf can beat on held vics, or bish mana burn vic while dwarf beats on them from there.
in this setup a dwarf can bean an archer. just get bish to root it.
...but still not going to duo with an Elven Elder... :D
Why not? If EE got a mele wearpon as well and area is easy enoughf that it's pocible to go on with minimal rests then EE it is! Especialy for blunted dwarf, since almost no need for critical and acuracy buffs.
...but still not going to duo with an Elven Elder... :D
Why not? If EE got a mele wearpon as well and area is easy enoughf that it's pocible to go on with minimal rests then EE it is! Especialy for blunted dwarf, since almost no need for critical and acuracy buffs.
well, to put it bluntly it is a gimpy [censored] elf afterall :p. nobody wants them in grps. lol
...but still not going to duo with an Elven Elder... :D
Why not?
Partly because they are not just looking for a group at that time.
If EE got a mele wearpon as well and area is easy enoughf that it's pocible to go on with minimal rests then EE it is! Especialy for blunted dwarf, since almost no need for critical and acuracy buffs.
But wouldn't you wish that some true DD could join your group in the field? :D
Thers no such thing as having an edge in gear being an dwarf at all, I can tell you that much, I have an high lv BH and I got an high lv WS; sure you can earn money crafting with an WS but trust me, it's a hell a lot of work and clicking, not fun and you need to be at the client every 5-10 min, doable? Yeah fast? not really.
For BH sure you help the group your in to help earn some bit of extra cash, yes most of the drops land on others not you, if your playing with friends you can sometimes ask nicly to get some of the items but yeah thats about it, you usualy don't gain ANYTHING more then anyone else in this group, best way for an BH is to find an duo or a trio and get most out of your spoil, still not to much cash here yet.
Fact is you can gain a lot of more cash doing manor then spoil, in fact one to two hours manoring can pull you in 4-5m worth of animal bone right now due the crazy price, how much animal bone will you have if you just spoiled? not even 1m worth of animal bone, and most of it landed on other poeples in your group.
Thirdly the best way to earn fast cash in L2, is to learn teh market, buy/sell items you can pull in 20-30m a day doing this if you know it well, can a dwarf spoil this much? No... But sure they can play the markety to just like everyone else.
Thers no such thing as an edge for an dwarf and it skills to earn cash anymore, specialy not for an BH since c1. WS can but a pain in the *** to do it and your beter of play the market insted ( less work more cash )
In any event, all peopels have access to the adventages of us dwarves, but WE do not have any close of the same PvP skills as you all do, nor damage nor anything of the sort, we are WORTH it and we should be alowed to have it to, to be able to PvP at you guys level and not be gimped. This is mainly for BH thoght, WS is quite strong after C4 due there golem, but BH dosnt even have one, and an BH is an identical to WS when he dont have the summon up.
Other thing who makes up for it is to TRULY put us on an edge of the market, increse spoil with at least 500% and so on, I can't see any other way to be able to compete here othervise.
Fact is you can gain a lot of more cash doing manor then spoil
...now. But we are speaking about what awaits Dwarves in C5. And NCsoft could easily help Dwarves there even without additional dwarven skills. Spoil from raid bossess, for example...
But if the bounty hunter does not contribute spoils to the group, they are contributing nothing another true DD wouldn't have done better. Asking to be selfish and keep all the spoils that the group has helped you to acquire is just that, selfish.
You contribute spoils to the group and in turn are rewarded with the benefit of being in a group. The fact that bounty hunters are unable to solo is the same plight as faced by several other melee classes, you simply lack the ability to deal enough damage to the mobs; but being forced to group still is not sufficient reason for not having to contribute spoils to the group.
But if the bounty hunter does not contribute spoils to the group, they are contributing nothing another true DD wouldn't have done better. Asking to be selfish and keep all the spoils that the group has helped you to acquire is just that, selfish.
You contribute spoils to the group and in turn are rewarded with the benefit of being in a group. The fact that bounty hunters are unable to solo is the same plight as faced by several other melee classes, you simply lack the ability to deal enough damage to the mobs; but being forced to group still is not sufficient reason for not having to contribute spoils to the group.
My god does the ignorance in regards to BH/FS end? You know what you need to do? Go play a dwarf and put your philsophy to work. Because this is just far from the truth about dwarves its not even funny.
ask a dagger to spoil a mob, he will laff his as off. dwarves without spoil in a grp are DD assists. dwarf wants to spoil, it should be available to everyone the loot.
also apoil = small mob hate. yes, youll get aggro if u spoil a mob.
These two BH skills suck, They should be the last to have a toggle skill that uses MP, they rely to heavily on MP, and when the BH is out of mana, it's rest time. So what does ncsoft do? they make a skill that takes up even more mana. Good one. The DWARF needs and should have better skills than this, and I don't even play one seriously.
ask a dagger to spoil a mob, he will laff his as off. dwarves without spoil in a grp are DD assists. dwarf wants to spoil, it should be available to everyone the loot.
also apoil = small mob hate. yes, youll get aggro if u spoil a mob.
Umm no
The group gets the dwarf spoil but what does the dwarf get?
You get 1/9th of the spoils.
Spoils are fragmented so what will you do with it besides A: store it in the wh or B: npc shop it.
Do you buy things in large stacks from players in giran OR do you buy 1 silver here and 1 iron there?
There is so much I can go into about your flaw philsophy about dwarves but I'm not even going to bother getting into it because its not worth my effort or time. You can say the dwarf player is greedy for wanting to keep their spoils. But I will say that the other is greedy for wanting to take the only skill they have away from them. Learn to consider the player instead of the toon.
We always get 100% the same darn skills as WS do, but beside that WS always have there golem wich meens twice the damage yes in fact the golem have more then the summoners damage evne... almost double....
And wherent this chronicle about balance the classes? Right now an WS beat an BH without even us scrating the WS HP in the first place. I'm quite afraid thoght that NCSoft can't see this, they are completly blind in this aspect as it's ben there since C1 this extream difference in balance. And so far the prommese to balance PvP have offered NOTHING OF THIS SORT. Thers no balance comming aparently not even with our classes.
Yes being able to spoil A grade armor recipes dosnt make up for the PvP aspect in this game to, all chars should have the right to be able to PvP at teh same grounds and have the same grounds to win, it should only go down to the skill of the player playing it's class, This is what makes an Fun PvP game.
But yeah I can't see NCSoFt give BH's any exclusive power to be able to be as usefull or anything beter then teh worst melee (side with side with warlord ) and give us something for ONCE.
There's a flip side to this.. the BH is always welcome in a party if they are willing to share spoils. The WS has their mech golem to solo with, but it takes 15% of their xp, and it's expensive as hell.
As far as pvp, a dorf can stand toe to toe with any other melee class. If you get a stun on a mage/archer chances are you are going to win that fight. Most of the pvp I lose is when I get kited. I think it sucks that DC robe set gives run speed... nothing worse than being kited by a mage lol
The 3rd class skills for dorfs are amazing in pvp though. A stun that cancels your opponent's target, and lowers their p.def/m.def at the same time. That's just SICK.
The game is designed such that by this chronicle you would have a subclass, and not be playing your dorf actively. That's my 2 cents.
All they need to do is run the numbers on what classes people choose when they sub and they would spot the problem instantly. It's a running joke in our clan about subbing BH. They really didn't need to bother making it so people can't sub WS, since no one in their right mind would do it anyhow. LOL
Plus, Dwarves can be a dd with a polearm. Even duoing with a SE I have out killed archers and mages in FG. Dwarves will never be as good as a pure tank or pure dd. However they aren't as bad as many make them out to be. Alot of it depends on the person controlling. Which is true for every class.
The difference between a stupid and smart player using the same class is like light and dark.
*sigh*
After reading the translated skill list, I am once again asking myself, why I still keep playing Lineage2.
From Chronicle to Chronicle I am hoping for a new skill or a change to the existing skills of the bounty hunters, that will make the class worth playing some more (or again, as some would say).
And what can I see in the skill list as it is now ?
- Daggers get Might mortal as skill. Do they need it ? Yes, I think so.
- Tanks getting new overhit skills. Do they need them ? Yes, I think so.
- ....
Many new skills get added to a variety of classes.
However Bounty Hunters and Warsmiths get the following:
1. a toggle skill, which increases polearm accuracy
2. a toggle skill, which increases resistance to sleep and shock
Both skills drain MP.
For the Bounty Hunter using a blunt weapon (or anything but a pole), who is not constantly engaging in PvP, both skills are worthless. I cannot think of a single time, where I had hoped for such a skill, as they are now added.
Bounty Hunters in addition do not have the MP to use any toggle skills in PvE fights, regardless of being grouped or not.
I sure hope for the skill list to be incomplete still.
Of course I will still be playing Lineage2, and I will still keep my dwarf as a main, but it gets more and more depressing with every chronicle passing.
In Chronicle 2, I had offered a bet of 100.000a on the german fansite, that the dwarves in total will get no more than 1 skill added by C4, which is actually worth using, that not all other classes get too (like fishing).
I won that bet.
I am willing to increase that bet to 1.000.000a for C5 as I really lost the faith in the development on the dwarven part.
The developers obviously are dwarf haters and deserve their kneecaps smashed !
Frustrated Kitten
Ok first off dwarves are the money makers thats why they are played if you picked one and thought you would be a bad *** well you messed up just like I did when I picked paladin over DA. However to answer your questions first a WS with a golem and pet SS can own in pvp agaisnt most other melee classes and any nukers you get close enough to stun and have the golem chew up. BH are screwed you guys are left in the dust I know but spoiling tons of mats and recipes makes you wealthy as hell which you should use to get yourself to subclassing as fast as possible. PVP only in mass battles like seiges where you can stun guys to give allies time to kill them avoid other battles unless you want to lose xp. As a paladin I had little use in pvp other then a stunner and even then it wasn't that great so I focussed on getting to 75 and subbing now on my sub I havea chance of killing anyone I fight which is why you should focus on getting your BH to 75.
Ok first off dwarves are the money makers thats why they are played if you picked one and thought you would be a bad *** well you messed up just like I did when I picked paladin over DA.
If Bounty Hunters would really be the money makers, I would be the first one to shut up, when it comes to new skills. The facts however are, that a nuker or DD class can easily make the same or more money, than a BH.
BH are screwed you guys are left in the dust I know but spoiling tons of mats and recipes makes you wealthy as hell which you should use to get yourself to subclassing as fast as possible.
I can sing this song already in three different languages. Spoiling is by far not the best way to get "tons of material". Manor System is, and that is not restricted to BHs. The real expensive materials cannot be gathered solo and as such, the BH is again making 8 other people rich to become rich themselves, which again is not a money advantage. Also I refuse to see the whole REASON of my class to be to reach subclassing as fast as possible. It is called SUBclass not MASTERclass.
I did start my Dwarf in open beta and it said, that Dwarves are sacrificing combat skills for their ability to be richer than the others.
Everyday life in L2 shows, that the richest chars are not Dwarves or that they did not get their money by using skills but by using the stupidity of other people (scamming or playing the market is both doing that).
Also I never said, I want to keep all my spoils. I know, that to get a group, I need to share spoils.
I also never asked to be a bad *** fighter, able to solo a full group of tanks.
What I am complaining about, is that the "more money" effect somply is not existant or at least extremely slim due to things like spoil sharing, manor system, quest rewards and the general inability of a BH to kill high level mobs on their own, or even sneak past some mobs to get to the treasures ("Fortune Seekers are rumored to be able to pluck strands of hair from the mustache of Valakas"... Yeah, with what skill ? Spoil Crush ?).
So with each chronicle I am looking for any changes, which will either make the Dwarves slightly better fighters or make them able to gain just a bit more money than everyone else in the group.
And with the C5 info I read so far, I see many classes get goodies, some classes getting OK skills and some classes getting 2 toggle skills, which I will never use.
If you want to scold me, get your facts straight, on what I am really saying.
All they need to do is run the numbers on what classes people choose when they sub and they would spot the problem instantly. It's a running joke in our clan about subbing BH. They really didn't need to bother making it so people can't sub WS, since no one in their right mind would do it anyhow. LOL
I plan on subbing a BH for my third class as a serious possibility. I mean if I have a lvl 78 WR and a 78 Necro, I have my group exp and my solo exp classes covered and two different types of playstyle. If I sub BH... I'll make loads of adena by spoiling enchants so I can make my other 2 classes much more powerful.
But never in your right mind would you pick a BH as your first subclass lol, just too slow at leveling, besides with my BH I wouldn't party, just not worth it unless I was duoing with a nuker or something.
Players playing a BH or WS know going into it that it's a hard class to play, very tedious, but there are rewards. It was actually a pleasant surprise Spoil could be enchanted for PvP skills.
I'll make loads of adena by spoiling enchants so I can make my other 2 classes much more powerful.
If you find that mob, which will spoil "loads of enchants" then please do tell me. I am spoiling mobs, that are listed to both drop and spoil EW:B for almost a month now, without getting one... Oh and I am making "loads of Charcoal" in the process. Unfortunately it is worth significantly less than EWs.
I'll make loads of adena by spoiling enchants so I can make my other 2 classes much more powerful.
If you find that mob, which will spoil "loads of enchants" then please do tell me. I am spoiling mobs, that are listed to both drop and spoil EW:B for almost a month now, without getting one... Oh and I am making "loads of Charcoal" in the process. Unfortunately it is worth significantly less than EWs.
Cave Kitten
Well 7x BH's can make 1m+ an hour on mats at the moment. EWB aren't what I'm looking for, I'm looking for EAA and up. There are some out there, it's not loads of enchants, but loads of adena because they add up.
Then Ramadear, please enlighten all of us lowly humans as to what the truth about dwarves are.
We certainly know they aren't DD, so thats their contribution to the group.
They are neither healers nor tanks. So what is left for them to be? What else can they contribute to the group? And they certainly must contribute something, for they are equally sharing in all of the experience, adena, and normal drops the group is earning with a disequal contribution if they are neither filling one of the above roles nor sharing their spoils.
Is it all right for a healer to go, "Sorry guys, but the heals are all for me" or a prophet to go, "Sorry guys but the buffs are all for me"?
Then Ramadear, please enlighten all of us lowly humans as to what the truth about dwarves are.
We certainly know they aren't DD, so thats their contribution to the group.
They are neither healers nor tanks. So what is left for them to be? What else can they contribute to the group? And they certainly must contribute something, for they are equally sharing in all of the experience, adena, and normal drops the group is earning with a disequal contribution if they are neither filling one of the above roles nor sharing their spoils.
Is it all right for a healer to go, "Sorry guys, but the heals are all for me" or a prophet to go, "Sorry guys but the buffs are all for me"?
Sure I'll kindly share my experience with you.
First I'm going to be straight up front about it. Your not a dwarf and if you had one its probably a "alt or a lowbie dwarf" hence why you have little to zero comprehension about the aspects of the class and what they are suppose to be.
Let me start with the typical dwarf doesn't do damage mindset, because its absurd. Damage is damge so it adds up. Ask yourself, do daggers constantly spam specials in pve? Do gladiators/tyrant constantly spam special in pve? No, they melee aka just hit with regular hits to accumulate damage. Can dwarf do this? Yes. What dwarves lack are special skills which are mainly used for pvp...but even that changes at 76+ where they get a arsenal of useful skills. So yes dwarves DO contribute to the group more than you try to make it out to be.
Another common mistake that is often looked over is that dwarves main attribute is to CONTRIBUTE TO THE ECONOMY and notice that I have that in caps. Without dwarves guess what? You wouldn't have weapons/armor/jewelry. Their role isn't to share spoil. Why? Because the people getting can't do anything with them but store them or npc shop them. What would you rather see? A single dwarf getting enough mats to create something to sell on the market OR you getting 1/9 spoils and taking months to make something? Better yet, with your mentality don't bother answering because more than likely it will be the later. So let me simplify this for you so that you can comprehend.
Healer heals the party
Tanks aggro mobs
DD do damage(And even dwarves are considered by ncsoft as warriors)
Mages do damage
Dwarves contribute to the economy.
Then Ramadear, please enlighten all of us lowly humans as to what the truth about dwarves are.
We certainly know they aren't DD, so thats their contribution to the group.
They are neither healers nor tanks. So what is left for them to be? What else can they contribute to the group? And they certainly must contribute something, for they are equally sharing in all of the experience, adena, and normal drops the group is earning with a disequal contribution if they are neither filling one of the above roles nor sharing their spoils.
Is it all right for a healer to go, "Sorry guys, but the heals are all for me" or a prophet to go, "Sorry guys but the buffs are all for me"?
Then Ramadear, please enlighten all of us lowly humans as to what the truth about dwarves are.
We certainly know they aren't DD, so thats their contribution to the group.
They are neither healers nor tanks. So what is left for them to be? What else can they contribute to the group? And they certainly must contribute something, for they are equally sharing in all of the experience, adena, and normal drops the group is earning with a disequal contribution if they are neither filling one of the above roles nor sharing their spoils.
Is it all right for a healer to go, "Sorry guys, but the heals are all for me" or a prophet to go, "Sorry guys but the buffs are all for me"?
well said.
Hardly.
This mindset is so old its not even funny. Why do people think this? Simple because they don't play a dwarf as a main so they only have the ability to view from the outside. Which is why their comments and quotes are very external. Typical.
As OP, I kindly ask you to stop arguing if a Dwarf should spoil share or not. If you want to argue about that, get yourself an own thread.
I am not talking about spoil sharing. I am talking about changing the Dwarves with C5.
And the skills that are currently on the list for the dwarves to get just do not meet my favour, as I do not see them usefull for blunt dwarves, who cannot spend their mana on toggle skills.
You now either can tell me to shut up and live with it, suggest some skill or other changes for a dwarf, or agree with me.
If you cannot do any of that, get the heck out of this thread. I am tired of the old "dwarves do not contribute to the group" argument. And I mean both the pro and the con side of that argument.
As OP, I kindly ask you to stop arguing if a Dwarf should spoil share or not. If you want to argue about that, get yourself an own thread.
I am not talking about spoil sharing. I am talking about changing the Dwarves with C5.
And the skills that are currently on the list for the dwarves to get just do not meet my favour, as I do not see them usefull for blunt dwarves, who cannot spend their mana on toggle skills.
You now either can tell me to shut up and live with it, suggest some skill or other changes for a dwarf, or agree with me.
If you cannot do any of that, get the heck out of this thread. I am tired of the old "dwarves do not contribute to the group" argument. And I mean both the pro and the con side of that argument.
Owner Kitten
When you get to lvl 76+ things start to get alot better. Spoil and spoil festival can be enchanted to be a DoT(which does very very nice damage) Blunt for crit power or attack power. Good stuff to look forward to. Though I think this should of been done for BH and not FS. BH doesn't have much going in terms of skills at that lvl. For FS those 2 new skills might be some what beneficial but for BH I can completely understand why they are considered useless.
Its cool how orcs got inferno body which gives them fire resist and fire element for their attacks. It would of been nice if dwarves got something similar that gave them elements of the earth and earth element on their weapon.
>>If you are aoeing in a spot that has alot of aoe stun mobs(middle rooms of martyrs) >>I can see how the stun/sleep toggle could be very helpful.
If you AoE-> you dont spoil; it's virtually next to impossible. And no one in the right mind spoils among stunners.
First of the one who complained that WS have problems to find groups, I'm just going to say one thing here. FIND A BETER CLAN AND YOUR PROBLEM IS GONE! Leave a clan INSTANTLY if they reject you becose they say things like, you suck, your an dwarf, you don't contribut to the group and so on. Don't stay! there is beter clans out there, trust me!
Secondly I wuld LOOOOOVE to be enlighted about how to EARN money specialy 1m worth of mats per hour playing, I've yet to see this, sure I admitt, I can spoil maby 100-200k worth of stuff and randomly maby up to 300-400k if I get lucky per hour, but fact is, thats counted in for the entire group, always play in a trio so, in the end I don't earn as much cash as you guys say, I can MANOR for more then this.
Yes I know spots to spoil EAA, EWA I've yet to see them land on me ofcorse, and yeah nobody is thankfull either for an BH to spoil them for them, yes on Lionna it meens I just GAVE them 10m, what did they give me? Nothing just a word 'nice' and the hunt continues.
Anyhow the reason why I always play in a trio nowdays is becose thoes are the only peopels I don't mind share my loot with, beocse they are nice peopels, and don't ust think of themself and love to play with them, And i don't mind at all to share and help them out. Anyhow I hate big groups XP is usualy slower in em to.
So yes after C1 the 'RUMOR' that dwarfs earn so much cash then all the others is competly GONE, we DO NOT. On other hand did we get something to compensate this at all? Such as more skills that culd be used in PVP? No we did, we just got a big nerf thats it.
Anyhow bottom end, Lineage 2 is a PVP game it's advertised as one to, every class should have the same right to be able to PvP as well as all other classes, BH is one of the few classes completly left out, yes there is more classes left out and turly something should be DONE about this, AND YES BH NEED UNIQUE SKILLS THAT WS DOES NOT GET AS WELL! Our skills culd be shared by other classes, BUT WE NEED AN BOOST, we are not even half as good as WS and thats something terrible wrong.
At least BH get spoil... Us Warsmiths got royally nurfed by player craft-shops, which then became 20 item ones, which means there are now a total of AFK dwarves that make 99% of all the B/A/S items on the server. Makes sense to use them since you only need 1 recipe instead of 2 recipes at 50m+ each. So crafting is basically useless.
Still no PvP skills...
Still no PvE skills...
Still sitting ducks...
Here's a clue for NC... once you have all the items you need in the game, exactly WHAT am I supposed to do as a Warsmith??? We're effectively useless for all endgame activities, siege, PvP, etc.
Oh, and as for the mech golem, it's useless for any group or AoE situation, i.e. all of PvE. So stop saying that's such a great deal. It's a cruel joke.
Roftl ! Sorry what i read here from some ppl is so .....
The worst part was a BH should pay every party member 1 mil to get a specific item ( especialy recipe ) or to have spoils set not share.
This wont happen not from a dwarf and not from other ppl.
The reason is simple other ppl just want exp most of em wont join a group with low exp. The few that will u wont find fast. Plus they can get a BH for the extra income in the good EXP groups due BH are at higher lvls forced to party.
Then a BH wont spend any money to other ppl to have spoils on his own and even if ppl wont stay long if they can find better groups and how long is the time rate 1 mil per hour ? Roftl.
Sorry if u ask me BH pay always for groups and dont even get a thank you. Its like a rule or something.
I remember the times when ppl shout for a BH to get a recipe or items spoiled and be thankfull.
As for the recipe to sell there is no real recipe market anymore the only recipes that are expensive are rare ones most of em drop only. IE top A grade Blunt recipe is now 700k while a B grade sword of valhalla or lance recipe is 15 mil.
As soon a recipe get spoilable pro farmers have stocks of em so the price drops.
Next was the one with the solo green in catas with potions only. True you can solo there spamming greater heals greater haste pots and SoulShots but it costs a lot more money then you will earn at high lvls. If you say in low lvl catas sure a lvl 20 char can easy kill mobs without ss and potions in top D equip.
As for the money making thing this was till c2 hit then everyone was a spoiler in group and loot was divided to all.
I like the aspect to share with friends and good ppl or give stuff someone needs or because the groups was just awesome but not to share to everyone even to ppl i dont know.
Now we come to the share skill stuff most of the argument all ppl say. A tank takes damage a healer heals and buffs damage dealers kill mobs fast why should a BH should not share his skill too.
Well i ask you why we party ? I think the answer is clear we do to get exp faster to help eatch other kill mobs faster and have a great time. A BH and warsmith only add damage to the party sometimes act as tank. Thats good enoght. A spoil skill dont kill mobs faster or crafting wont kill it faster too. The tank reduced heals for healers, healers buffs help all party members DD help kill faster true. Dwarfs in the other hand help you later after the party.
Remember without Warsmiths there is no craft so you would end up in mid C gear without soulshots/ spiritshots.
Without ppl playin a spoiler you would not have all the needed recipes and parts you need for crafts. So even if you have a Warsmith without the spoilers you wont get the parts that easy.
The only problem for spoilers are pro farmers ( automated or not ) the game relays mostly on em. They offer cheap recipes and materials so you have access to all materials you need.
But the idea was back then dwarfs support groups in a different way later.
Now look what we have now BH pays with spoils to get a party and a warsmith dont even get a party.
**** how selfish are you ppl ? You call dwarfs greedy ? Big Roftl !
Back to original topic.
It dont surprise me If someone ask me what a game Lineage 2 is i would say its a wizzy and archer game. The most thing you do is kill mobs and earn money for next equip.
If you dont have wizzy or archer dont plan in any pvp.
I finaly noticed a boost to dwarfs!!
According to Hellrose, there will be twohanded fighter blunts from C grade and up. I even remembered that as being sugested at these boards. Those wearpons also have SA's, from top of my head I remember health, hastle, focus and anger. But i think there are more.
Just checked it up to... all I can say, it's not going to increse our damage at all, non of the A grade have Crit sa, with meens Meteor shower will still be the best weapon to get.
But one thing for sure is, ice Storm Hammer is a way beter choise then AOBA as B grade :) as it got Crit SA :)
# Two-handed Blunt
* Dwarven Hammer: C Grade : Health, Anger, Crt.Bleed
* Horn of Karik: C Grade : Focus, Haste, Crt.Drain
* Star Burster: B Grade : Health, Haste, Rsk.Focus
* Ice Storm Hammer: B Grade : Focus, Anger, Crt.Bleed
* Destroyer's Hammer: A Grade : Health, Haste, Crt.Drain
* Doom Crusher: A Grade: Health, Anger, Rsk.Haste
Just checked it up to... all I can say, it's not going to increse our damage at all, non of the A grade have Crit sa, with meens Meteor shower will still be the best weapon to get.
But one thing for sure is, ice Storm Hammer is a way beter choise then AOBA as B grade :) as it got Crit SA :)
# Two-handed Blunt
* Dwarven Hammer: C Grade : Health, Anger, Crt.Bleed
* Horn of Karik: C Grade : Focus, Haste, Crt.Drain
* Star Burster: B Grade : Health, Haste, Rsk.Focus
* Ice Storm Hammer: B Grade : Focus, Anger, Crt.Bleed
* Destroyer's Hammer: A Grade : Health, Haste, Crt.Drain
* Doom Crusher: A Grade: Health, Anger, Rsk.Haste
I seen this too and I think its nice that they added more 2h fighter blunts. Though I wish dwarves got 2h blunt masteries to benefit from it more.
I seen this too and I think its nice that they added more 2h fighter blunts. Though I wish dwarves got 2h blunt masteries to benefit from it more.
Blunt mastery is blunt mastery, works on any blunt, 2 handed or not, so you have nothing to worry about. The problem is, the curently 2 handed blunts ingame is for mages.
I seen this too and I think its nice that they added more 2h fighter blunts. Though I wish dwarves got 2h blunt masteries to benefit from it more.
Blunt mastery is blunt mastery, works on any blunt, 2 handed or not, so you have nothing to worry about. The problem is, the curently 2 handed blunts ingame is for mages.
He means 2handed mastery like destrouers get. Which stacks with 1handed mastery.
One thing I want to add. BHs may not get new good skills, but dont forget they also add territories that can be very spoiler-friendly.
In C4 there is at least 1 spoiler-paradise in the new lands!
The paradise I was talking about, was the beast farm :)
No need for healers as pets heal u,good for solo or duo with a nuker or other DDer. Excellent spoils!
Also , the dimensional rift , there is a rift for all levels. Here u need a group of course.
But u are right, BHs need new skills.Not pvp skills, but enhanced spoil skills for example.
And BHs would be multi-billionaires if there werent so many automated colleagues :(
Keep the current spoils that are visible to party and distributed to party. And add an additional chance per mob to spoil a rare item not disclosed or distributed to the party.
Best of both worlds, imho. BHs will get grouped, AND they'll make some extra money.
Soooo many ppl post here playing non-dwarf classes, and they actually think they could say something about dwarfs. This is something only ppl who played a dwarf as main till lvl, lets say 65.
Yes, dwarf have money-making skills. BUT what is that worth today? NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Dwarfs were supposed to use the money making as pvp skill: get better armors and weapons easier and faster than others. that would have made pvp with a dwarf equal to other classes. So whats with that today? I see lvl 61's running around in full A grade. Wow, then it really helps me to make money easier. IGE is the biggest competition for dwarfs. Also the ppl who dont care about were they buy/craft their stuff. If ppl would support REAL dwarfs it would make it easier for us. But thats not the fact. Of course its easier and better to buy the elysian off a farmer for 5 mils less than from a real dwarf, no arguement here. But in the end this cuts off our "natural" skills and makes us lose pvp.
Also theres a big difference between BH and WS. Im a WS main (proud lvl 8 crafter) and I thank NC everytime for my golem in daily pvp because this little thing saves my *** so often. Whats with the BHs? they get nothing. hell, i can kill a 5 lvls higher BH if i really want. Is that fair? No.
Bhs are spoilers. What about a mean skill like "seed of greed". if it lands u gotta use stun and as soon as u hit the player with stun his pdef would be reduced greatly (making the armor burst if u want it symbolic). A reducement of pdef would make a BH equal to a WS (of course only if NC would make it to let the skill reduce a fair amount of pdef).
This would be something that would help them A LOT.
I personally am REALLY looking forward to those skills. Hey, skills are skills, even if they suck.
But what will BH's do with those skills? nothing!! they are more or less worthless in a BHs daily life.
They dont need it for AOE. a dex tat is much better since that doesnt cost mp. And even if BHs would use it? 1 or maybe 2 AoE trains and then they are outta mp. great. means sitting around for 5-10 mins. Recharge from the healer? wow, then the healer runs outta mp every 10 mins. No matter how u wanna see it, its all [censored]. Those skills are ABSOLUTELY worthless for daily BHs. how often do u use a pole in daily pvp? i never did. i have my blunt. i have a bow. thats all i need. daily pvp isnt mass pvp but (for me) maybe 3 vs 3 or small groups like that. A pole is worthless here.
And even for me as WS the sleep/stun thingy sucks. I need my mp for stun and the bow. If pvp lasts longer (what happens often for me since i got many pots and many many tanks in my clan) ill run out of mp if i use that toggle.
My suggestion: Give the BHs FINALLY a good pvp skill that makes them equal to WS (like the one i mentioned before) + 1 GOOD pvp skill for both.
God, I am sure every dwarf here will agree with me, WE WOULD BE DEAD HAPPY IF THAT HAPPENED!
Oh, at least we are not getting nerfed any further this time, as far as I can see.
So far, there are no Spoil potions, no spoil pets and so far, a blacksmith in town cannot craft everything for free.
We do not get any skills nerfed either (how could we, we do only have 2 active skills).
Yeah, we are not getting anything useful, but that is what being a dwarf is all about, isn't it ?
I guess, when the first Warsmith is subclassing Bounty Hunter and reaching noblesse with ONLY dwarf classes, the game will display a message accross all servers reading something like:
"Congratulations to (dwarf name). They beat the game, reaching noblesse in the hardest possible szenario. Since the game was beaten, the servers will go down in 30 minutes forever. Thank you for having played Linage2."
Seriously, if there were difficulty levels, I would describe them as follows:
So easy, that your dog could do it: Necromancer
Very easy: Nukers
Easy: Archers, Summoners
Medium: Defensive Casters
Difficult: Melee DDs
Hard: Warcryer, Overlord
Very Hard: Tanks
Need to be in love with the class: Bounty Hunter, Warsmith
I don't quite agree with the leveling though, depending on playstyle. But thats another discussion.
And we do get some nerfs, our summons can be banished, our MP drained and several other classes got super-hit skills (further limiting our advantage in high HP)
I would still love to see the "smash kneecaps" skill.
Only available with blunts, a melee skill obviously, which basically is a powerful damage + root skill.
Also I would love for Dwarves to be able to sabotage the equipment of enemies.... After all Dwarves did make the armor and weapons, we should know their weakpoints.
There are lots of debuff or detect weakness skills, which would be reasonable for a dwarf, but in the world of Aden (read Elfden), we Dwarfs are not allowed to be a serious competitions to the lesser races.
Maybe there could be a dwarven event some time, like for one week or just one weekend, Dwarves are the only ones allowed to use any SS/SpS. That would teach the other ones a lesson, who they really depend on.
Maybe there could be a dwarven event some time, like for one week or just one weekend, Dwarves are the only ones allowed to use any SS/SpS. That would teach the other ones a lesson, who they really depend on.
There is dwarf nerfs comming, in C5 you can obtain A grade armors without WS.... That is in a way an nerf to WS.
C4 was a few nerfs comming to, stuff who never got mentioned like stun attack geting less damage on stun resist mobs and stuff like that... Yeah only really affecting classes with Hammer crush and thats mainly dwarves + 2 more.
Dwarves usualy get hit by a ton of indirect ners like the manor, I don't think it was ment to actaulyl hurt BH's as much as it did, but it did. NCSoft have also NEVER EVER done anything about this stuff either.
Like lv 60 is still the highest lv mobs who spoil mats like bone, coal, characoal and so on, only some very high lv mats who you need a tiny tiny tiny amonth on in craft spoils in a billion... but what does this help ?
I hope spoil get fixed in C5 ( doubht it ) and I truly hope htey will add some UNIQUE skills to BH ONLY.
Ultimate Suckage - When a Dwarf activates US, the monsters will have a 75% chance of recognising just how badly dwarves suck, take pity on them and leave them alone.
I soloed up to 58 on my Bounty Hunter... It was hell. It would have been so much easier with a Warsmith and Golem...
go try that
should be about the third mob when your golem dies due to drawing too much hate
BTW i soloed my ws to 65 (58-65 doesnt count due to big boom)
99% of the time i didnt use the golem due to cost and its poor survivability
esentially a true solo WS is nothing more than a scav without anyway to get a party and no spoil
in case you guys havent noticed C5 brings one of the biggest dwarf nerfs so far
[Life Ore System]
Drops from the many Raid monsters all over the continent are now more varied, and they host a new item combination system.
* Many Life Ores can be collected as drops from Raid Monsters lvl40+. Bring the crystals to the Adventurer Guild NPC or Adventurer Guild Leader NPC to create C to A Grade items (weapon, armor, accessories, fashion accessories)
* When a castle clan hunt a specific raid monster, an Adventurer Guild Leader NPC that can combine Life Ores to create A Grade weapon/armor.
* Life Ores dropped from raid monsters can be converted to other Life Ores needed to create A Grade weapon and armor at the Adventurer Guild NPC.
* You can also enjoy gamble by trading in Life Ores for certain items
just in case anyone of you WS's enjoyed crafting rare items or BH enjoyed hunting for that rare spoil
no need to stress anymore the elves will take care of it
Maybe I am missing something, but maybe it is just my dumb dwarfish brain, which does not work right....
With this "life ore" system in place, what exactly is a Bounty Hunter good for anymore ? And what is a Warsmith good for beside crafting shots ?
How about we have all the mobs drop healing potions and buff postions (all buff spells available as equal or better potions). That way, we could get rid of not only all dwarves, but also the healers and buffers, which noone wants to play anyway, right ?
Why don't we make only one class at all called "elfen rearside" ?
Dammit, logging in to this game is more and more tedious. Thank god, summer is ahead, and I will stay indoors much less anyway.
Kitten
(no special signature, cause of being disappointed by these changes beyond believe)
The cause of this is becose NCSoft have no CLUE what htey are doing, hell they won't even answer why we get nerf after nerf and after nerf, there havent ben a SINGLE chronicle dwarfs havent got nerfed and thats just counting in all the factors beside PvP, we have never ben good at PvP so :P can't call taht a nerf :P
Dwarves right now NEED to be fixed, our classes is completly destroyed and truly don't add an purpose to the game at all, not even ONE.
I'm still not sure how the life crystal system works at all - I'm curious whether it's much more efficient than raiding for drops (which pretty much makes dwarves unnecessary anyway, and is grr).
Well dwarves simply don't fit into the trend of getting your items through PvE (raidbosses) and PvP (castles) events. Someone noticed playing a dwarf is sooo boring only the people getting paid hard cash for that will do it... so instead of making it more interesting to play one they go the other route and give dwarven abilities to everyone else...
Why they don't simply remove dwarves from the game alltogether and get over it is beyond my understanding.
Apart from making distribution easier, I don't see much of a change for the dwarves (unless the value is greater, which I'm hoping against). And yes Caleria, the trend of passive nerfs to dwarf without reimbursement is discouraging - manor, raids, quests, now the Apella set... I wonder what's next.
Of course, this is excellent news for me as an organiser of PuRs. I never get any bloody loot. :(
It means that instead of shield dropping that everyone fights over, it now drops lifecrystals.
These crystals can then be devided out to everyone according to contribution or lack of same.
The, eventually, the individial player will get enough lifestones and he can go buy gear for the stones.
Wow, NC, you actually added a good change for once. I'm highly impressed, at least if this is how things will really work, and given that the above interpretation sounds sensible enough, is probably true.
It means that instead of shield dropping that everyone fights over, it now drops lifecrystals.
These crystals can then be devided out to everyone according to contribution or lack of same.
The, eventually, the individial player will get enough lifestones and he can go buy gear for the stones.
Wow, NC, you actually added a good change for once. I'm highly impressed, at least if this is how things will really work, and given that the above interpretation sounds sensible enough, is probably true.
Good for whom? In C4 they made so bosses drop more parts then whole items, good for WS more crafting will be done. They added all A parts, and some recipes (?) good for BH who actualy made it that far.
Those lifestones once again introduce a way to get top gear without dwarfs (who needs dwarfs at raids anyways?)..
Well dwarves simply don't fit into the trend of getting your items through PvE (raidbosses) and PvP (castles) events. Someone noticed playing a dwarf is sooo boring only the people getting paid hard cash for that will do it... so instead of making it more interesting to play one they go the other route and give dwarven abilities to everyone else...
Why they don't simply remove dwarves from the game alltogether and get over it is beyond my understanding.
Cal
My WS is my main and after being here since CB I've finally hit 60 and am doing the wedding dress quest.
Goal #1 finally reached..... Goal #2 to hit 75 and sub a more lvl-able class :(
We do need some serious overhauling in the skill department though... dwarves are so shafted.
Kitten
(no special signature, cause of being disappointed by these changes beyond believe)
thats the first time i ever seen that happen
no "disapointed kitten"?
no "rerolling elf kitten"?
life ore or as i like to call it dwarf death ore is prolly the biggest passive dwarf nerf to date
of course it doesnt compare to mammon, manor system or private craft but short of deleting the class nothing compares to them
The day you see a signature of me like "rerolling elf", you can be sure, that my account was hacked.
My current in game title is "elves must DIE".
Seriously, the elf model is an abomination to the world as Maphr created it. The mother world tree deserves to be burned down to feed the fires of our forges.
And the elves, as they are to clumsy and to weak for any real work, need to be herded to the beast farm and fed to the pets.
One little goodie from Diablo2 I do miss in Lineage2. I wanna collect ears. I want to wear a belt of elven ears.
i think its rly unfair (im a DA myself) that dorfs seem to be a fundamental part of the game (sieges, craft/economy) and yet they are of no "real threat" in pvp...
they shud give dwarves perhaps the ability to dual wield wpns no other class can, like dual poles ^ and that shud like x2 / x3 the damage output, so when u see a dorf inc, ull be like "oh pants ><" OR even allow dorfs INCREASED wpn mastery, since they forge these wpns, does it not make sense that they are elite wpn masters (like most fantasy games/lore) so perhaps give them insane wpn/blunt/pole masteries of lvl 80 odd - vastly out damagin other wpn users, since they get no specials or adv. melee/bow skills.
otherwise its rly unfair they are getting no love other than grtz S grd craft/more craft book space...
How would the Live Ore System affect the Raidboss farmers? Are there enough Ore giving Raidbosses, so they couldnt lock them all down?
I think the Live Ores are a half thought countermeasure to Farmers.
Perhaps if the Raidbosses get real Scripts, Spells, AE Damage, Spell resistances, and so on like EQ Raidbosses, then there will be a chance, that this will turn out good. ( Not for Dwarves, except they could spoil more Ores from the Raidbosses, and the WS could transform them better and cheaper than anyone else )
If i compare the Raidbosses in Lineage 2 to the nasty things we kill in Everquest, i think they are a bad Joke. :p
Its good for everyone, though NCSoft (as I said above) should have been sensible and given dwarves other things.
This system won't introduce MORE items, it will just make it more fair, so instead of getting a majestic helmet to 50 people, 50 people can get 1/50th of the helmet instead.
The day you see a signature of me like "rerolling elf", you can be sure, that my account was hacked.
My current in game title is "elves must DIE".
*sniffs* And some of us try and be nice, recharging Warsmiths and Bounty Hunters for nothing in return.
Anyways, I do feel kind of sorry for dwarves what with the manor system and mammon (weapon upgrade + trade should never have been included ever..). It's just stupid to give away all of a classes skills and not give them anything interesting in return.
In my opinion, the top recipes/parts of weapons/armour of each grade should be spoil only. Also no full drops of these items, not from raids or regular mobs. There should be no other way to get the top of the grade other than relying on dwarves, or having lots of adena of course, but there's no way around that.
It would just be really nice if dwarves got something interesting and unique to their class, that won't get screwed up again later.
Ty, ty, I was tired of people calling me "lvl 5x" and questioning my right to judge late-game content. :p
I want to become either dwarven tyrant or dwarven destoryer... If I should ever make it to 75... Depends which is nerfed more at that time. :p Anycase orc classes just seem to fit Dwarves. In C6 all of us will be retrained by orc masters as they will finally notice their gimpness. :mad:
Though dwarf nukers and summoners look pretty cute too and are funny as hell.
Well, ok, actually dwarves makes most classes cute.
I would pick a subclass for my dwarves if it wasn't because the chance of doing a subclass quest on Erica is about as good as winning the lottery 5 times in a row.
We always get 100% the same darn skills as WS do, but beside that WS always have there golem wich meens twice the damage yes in fact the golem have more then the summoners damage evne... almost double....
Ye BH whants golem too :mad: NC pls think about it ;)
I have been comparing my summons with those of regular summoner classes, mech golem and big boom on a level by level basis do not do more damage than the other summons. Furthermore we have no way to heal our summons, Mech Golems can not be healed at all, nor can we selfbuff our summons as regular summoners can. The WS one true advantage in seiges is the seige golem and wild hog cannon. While we can level quicker than our BH counterparts we do so at tremendous expense (ss, pet ss, crystals for summons). Grinding is not a break even experience, its a how much XP can I afford to make today experience.
Ye BH whants golem too NC pls think about it
Oh and if you get my summons I want your spoil skills, oh wait then there is no distinction between us at all is there? Well except for crafting.
Here is an interesting idea, want to see how many people really *play* dwarves? Take the ability to set up a buy or sell shop away from the dwarven race, only let us set up craft shops. Giran will become a ghost town until everyone makes a new alt of a differant race to set up their shops. Then NCsoft could get a real true idea of how many people actually play dwarves.
Oh and if you get my summons I want your spoil skills, oh wait then there is no distinction between us at all is there? Well except for crafting.
Sorry, but you can have Fake Death for your summons. Those are equivalent.
We got spoil, you got crafting. Those are two sides of a coin.
Spoil and Summons are differnent coins.
Yes, indeed. All we got for your summons, is Fake Death...
And expensive or not, the mere fact, that a WS can level faster than a BH is ridiculous, given the background of the chars....
Bounty Hunters are supposed to be the daring adventurers, who travel to places far and dangerous, boldly trying to gather a few rare materials from hostile mobs....
Warsmiths on the other hand sit in their forge, twiddling their thumbs, waiting for one of the Bounty Hunters to bring them the material, so that they can create a weapon from it, in the absolute safety of a town, protected by walls and guards....
And the cowardly smithies are the better fighters ? Come on.
Oh and if you get my summons I want your spoil skills, oh wait then there is no distinction between us at all is there? Well except for crafting.
Sorry, but you can have Fake Death for your summons. Those are equivalent.
We got spoil, you got crafting. Those are two sides of a coin.
Spoil and Summons are differnent coins.
Yes, indeed. All we got for your summons, is Fake Death...
And expensive or not, the mere fact, that a WS can level faster than a BH is ridiculous, given the background of the chars....
Bounty Hunters are supposed to be the daring adventurers, who travel to places far and dangerous, boldly trying to gather a few rare materials from hostile mobs....
Warsmiths on the other hand sit in their forge, twiddling their thumbs, waiting for one of the Bounty Hunters to bring them the material, so that they can create a weapon from it, in the absolute safety of a town, protected by walls and guards....
And the cowardly smithies are the better fighters ? Come on.
Ruthless Kitten
You know I would take fake death for summons. And cowardly? the name is Warsmith!
Which is another ridiculous setting of skills.
I wanna be able to try to craft A-grade weapons too, not loosing the materials until it works on the 100th try.
Warsmiths are pampered compared to Bounty Hunters.
Bah, I bet warsmiths are paying some elf for these benefits.
Which is another ridiculous setting of skills.
I wanna be able to try to craft A-grade weapons too, not loosing the materials until it works on the 100th try.
Warsmiths are pampered compared to Bounty Hunters.
Bah, I bet warsmiths are paying some elf for these benefits.
Growling Kitten
Um wow...bitter much? This is after all just a game there kitten, I am not saying BH's don't need some loving, they truly do. Lets just say that the end game for WS is payback for how no one would even consider partying us until we hit 52. Oh and I had to try several times to craft my clan leaders gear myself. I am not one of those warsmiths that sit in town all day as a craft shop, unless I am undercutting everyones prices to try and lower them on my server.
Got a high lv warsmith and even higher lv BH, all I can say, I have never had any problems at all findign an party with my WS not a single time.
It all ends up with what clan your playing with, if your in one who refuse be alwoed to join an party just becose your an dwarf or whatever, I recomend you to type Good bye then /leave and find an beter clan/aliance to be in.
I have an awsome clan, that crafts nearly everything instead of buying. However before finding a clan absolutly no one wanted me in party after finding out I was not a scavy or BH. Again why is everyone deciding to attack me now when I am not saying BH's don't need something more, try getting back on topic maybe. The title of this thread was what about dwarves not what about my poor bounty hunter.
You know I would take fake death for summons. And cowardly? the name is Warsmith!
Wrong chose :) FD is usefull only on mobs and its not 100% of succses. It cost 200 mp to turn it on and 40 mp consuming. In PVP i better prefer golem :) its bomb on pvp. If u use ss and got buffs on yuor golem. ;)
To my mind, what nc need to power on, its a BH :eek:
keep saying it time and time again
golem cost alot of adena
the only class that could use the thing and still turn a profit (without outside means) is BH
as for PVP yeah the thing is uber
gets 2 hit by mages 20 lvls lower and slept/para/rooted/stunned easier than an elphy
You know I would take fake death for summons. And cowardly? the name is Warsmith!
Wrong chose :) FD is usefull only on mobs and its not 100% of succses. It cost 200 mp to turn it on and 40 mp consuming. In PVP i better prefer golem :) its bomb on pvp. If u use ss and got buffs on yuor golem. ;)
To my mind, what nc need to power on, its a BH :eek:
Sorry a little out of context what I meant was that if BH's would also get my summons, then I would also like to get FD. I wouldn't give up my summons for anything.
keep saying it time and time again
golem cost alot of adena
the only class that could use the thing and still turn a profit (without outside means) is BH
Care to enlighten me as to how a BH is the only class that could use a summons and still turn a profit? Sorry but that statement is the height of hubris. It merely takes a little bit of intelligence to use the golems in a profitable manner, and that is not dependant upon your character class but upon the person in control of said character. This post has gotten completly off track and is now an argument over BH vs WS. I am surprised no one had anything to say about my suggestion that NCSoft take away the ability to set up buy and sell shops from dwarves to see how many people actually play dwarves.
hu·bris
noun
Definition:
1. pride: excessive pride or arrogance
2. excessive ambition: the excessive pride and ambition that usually leads to the downfall of a hero in classical tragedy
Care to enlighten me as to how a BH is the only class that could use a summons and still turn a profit?
didnt say summon i said golem
golem cost up to millions a day to run, since bh is the only class capable of making that money while hunting my statement still holds true
im trying to stear this discussion from ws vs bh please dont bring it back off track again
Care to enlighten me as to how a BH is the only class that could use a summons and still turn a profit?
didnt say summon i said golem
golem cost up to millions a day to run, since bh is the only class capable of making that money while hunting my statement still holds true
im trying to stear this discussion from ws vs bh please dont bring it back off track again
LOL ok I am the one that brought it off track, um can a BH spoil C crystals now? If not you need outside help (means) in order to even use the skill. The skill is summon mechanical golem. So calling it a summons is just as valid as calling it golem. I think you managed not to answer my question. And you are woefully uninformed about how much it costs to run a golem all day. I run mine all the time and turn a profit. And you started out saying BH's couldn't hope to make the kind of money other players can through manor. Now you say only you can make the millions a day it costs to run a golem. Um sorry I think I will have to disregard any further advice from you about the dwarven race.
LOL ok I am the one that brought it off track, um can a BH spoil C crystals now? If not you need outside help in order to even use the skill. The skill is summon mechanical golem. So calling it a summons is just as valid as calling it golem. I think you managed not to answer my question. And you are woefully uninformed about how much it costs to run a golem all day. I run mine all the time and turn a profit. And you started out saying BH's couldn't hope to make the kind of money other players can through manor. Now you say only you can make the millions a day it costs to run a golem. Um sorry I think I will have to disregard any further advice from you about the dwarven race.
please dont derail this anymore
you may still be able to turn a profit at lower lvls im not really sure (lvl 50 golem was alot cheaper when i had it)
manor system is an outside source remove that and i wouldnt have a hope to afford the golem
i've seen a BH make 10+ mil in 3 hours of hunting which is more than i could hope to make useing my kickass dwarven crafting skills while gaining xp
please dont derail this anymore
you may still be able to turn a profit at lower lvls im not really sure (lvl 50 golem was alot cheaper when i had it)
manor system is an outside source remove that and i wouldnt have a hope to afford the golem
i've seen a BH make 10+ mil in 3 hours of hunting which is more than i could hope to make useing my kickass dwarven crafting skills while gaining xp
Alright again you show how much you don't know. I don't use manor, I can afford to use the golem constantly. In fact all the mats I gather, and all the mats my clan gathers goes into crafting, we sell nothing. I can still afford to use my golem. Stop feeding people incorrect info about WS and BH.
Back to the OP's topic about the 2 new skills for dwarves. I can see tons of applications for a toggle that reduces my chances of getting slept or stunned! Grind in AL lately? Do any PvP against a mage?? And a toggle to increase my accuracy with a polearm, heck yes! I am nearly 60 but the majority of my clan is a few lvls higher than me, our BH is 65 and we frequently do pole partys where the mobs are red to me. I would love to be able to hit more often than miss TYVM.
Now all that having been said BH's need more.(I never in any of my posts said otherwise) WS's do have extra damage capabilty with their summons that a BH has no access to. At 76 at least they get spoil crush(they also get Hammer Crush like we WS do so thats one more skill post 76 than a WS), but lets face it how many BH are going to push for Fortune Seeker at this point? The large problem here is that demographically it looks as if there are thousands of dwarves acively playing cause so many are always on. The truth is that most dwarves are just alts that people make to Giran-sit. We look like a popular class (both BH & WS) while in reality very few people actively play a dwarf.
So much dwarven animosity coming to light on this thread, and now it's BH vs WS suddenly :mad:.
My slant on mech golem usage is this...that thing does cost a fortune to use for me, at least to 'dou' with it. Last week I was hunting with it one night and after consumables (A-SS, Beast SS, GSAP's, C-Crystals...i had an out of party bish for buffs/heals so was no cost in heal pots) I wound up spending 1.2mil for 2 hours grind. That's not exactly cheap lvling, donno how some of you other WS's are able to make money doing that. Also, the xp i got is slightly less than a good group, so it's not even practical...only if there is no group available. Forget bigboom for xp now, and mech golem is way to squishy at high lvl's, but both do serve a great purpose in pvp situations still.
I've been a huge defender of BH's since all these changes began long ago (starting with spoil-sharing). There really is little going for you guys since basic and even key mats are easily obtainable for everyone now. In C5, with the full gear being obtainable also if this is true, then us WS's have just become much less useful as well. 'Money makers' we're not, at least no more than any other class :(.
The one thing that does really set me afire though, is the belief that dwarves aren't DD's. Here is the thing...dwarves have no shield skills, and no hate...we aren't TANKS. However, we are more than capable DD's if set up right. I went the +4dex, +4str route with tallum heavy (haste) and halberd (haste). I will put down as much damage as anyone in a good party...and yes im talking about ANY other melee class.
Meh, at least im 74 now so I can sub a nuker or archer like everyone else and not have to worry about how screwed dwarves are much longer :).
How can you forget big boom for xp? It does AoE damage, perfect for use with a polearm. No it doesn't do uber damage, but it manages to one shot half hp mobs that con white to me just fine, and that is without the use of blessed beast spirit shot. I must have missed the boat on big boom that everyone thinks its so gimp now. I admit I just got boom a couple lvls ago but come on, I get 10% xp an hour in skyshadow meadow with the lil guy and my lance.
what about dwarves? They are here to make money, the player guide states they are here to make money, they arent meant to be a pvp class of any special caliber. I dont understand why people even bring up this topic. If you want to start offering spoil and crafting to other classes then the dwarves can have more pvp skills etc. If you want these skills to be dwarf exclusive then there is no way they should have good pvp skills.
Sorry, but spoiling A-Grade recipes is not benefitting the Bounty Hunter, it is benefitting the group,
Create a party matching window "BH WTSpoil Maj.Circlet Recipe". Then say you will pay 1M (or whatever) to each party member if you succeed. You know how to configure party drop options, don't you?
Why should an BH pay the group for a spoil of his own?
And it the oposit, the group pay him for atl east 50% if a good spoil come up ? As you gained a good spoil, and it was all thanks to the BH in the group.
because each class brings their skills to the party. buffers bring buffs, tanks take care of aggro, sleepers protect the party, a bounty hunter is absolutely worthless without their spoil. Of course people expect you to have spoil by turn or if you prefer you can solo and not get any good recs or parties at all. I sound like a dwarf hater but i have a BH myself.
They are here to make money, the player guide states they are here to make money, they arent meant to be a pvp class of any special caliber.
Read the opening post again, Mr. Spock.
I did in no way suggest, that Dwarves were meant to be killing machines, able to kill every char that is not a Dwarf themselves (like nukers can for example).
I did also not suggest, that Dwarves can kill any char, who is 20 lvls above their own level (like everyone can with a dwarf as victim).
If there would still be this significant money making aspect to dwarves, I would agree to you and shut up, not asking for anything else.
But as it is now, the Bounty Hunter can only spoil items, that will really yield a real high income, if they are in a full party, and in that party, they will make 8 other people rich, who IN ADDITION are getting stronger to become a good PvP class. The BH is only getting "rich" and nothing else.
Also with the addition of the manor system, the Blacksmith-Weapon Upgrades, Raid Boss Drops and General Material Drop and Spoil decrease, the money making abilities of Bounty Hunters were severaly impacted.
Basic materials like bone, varnish, iron, coal and the likes can far faster and easier be gathere by any other char than a dwarf, simply cause every other char got a higher kill speed.
Warsmiths were crippled by craft shops (every craft is basically available for less than 100k a) and by the Blacksmith of Manor. Specific high level recipes are not even meant to be done by WS, but are NPC-blacksmith only.
So with these passive nerfs to the Dwarven race and the general ability of EVERYONE to become rich as fast or even faster than any Dwarf char could ever hope for, I am asking for the Dwarves to get something back.
That can either be a true money making advantage again, which I simply do not see at the moment....
... or some skill, that make them more viable in combat, to compansate for the lack of money making advantage as it was promised.
They are here to make money, the player guide states they are here to make money, they arent meant to be a pvp class of any special caliber.
Read the opening post again, Mr. Spock.
I did in no way suggest, that Dwarves were meant to be killing machines, able to kill every char that is not a Dwarf themselves (like nukers can for example).
I did also not suggest, that Dwarves can kill any char, who is 20 lvls above their own level (like everyone can with a dwarf as victim).
If there would still be this significant money making aspect to dwarves, I would agree to you and shut up, not asking for anything else.
But as it is now, the Bounty Hunter can only spoil items, that will really yield a real high income, if they are in a full party, and in that party, they will make 8 other people rich, who IN ADDITION are getting stronger to become a good PvP class. The BH is only getting "rich" and nothing else.
Also with the addition of the manor system, the Blacksmith-Weapon Upgrades, Raid Boss Drops and General Material Drop and Spoil decrease, the money making abilities of Bounty Hunters were severaly impacted.
Basic materials like bone, varnish, iron, coal and the likes can far faster and easier be gathere by any other char than a dwarf, simply cause every other char got a higher kill speed.
Warsmiths were crippled by craft shops (every craft is basically available for less than 100k a) and by the Blacksmith of Manor. Specific high level recipes are not even meant to be done by WS, but are NPC-blacksmith only.
So with these passive nerfs to the Dwarven race and the general ability of EVERYONE to become rich as fast or even faster than any Dwarf char could ever hope for, I am asking for the Dwarves to get something back.
That can either be a true money making advantage again, which I simply do not see at the moment....
... or some skill, that make them more viable in combat, to compansate for the lack of money making advantage as it was promised.
Reasoning Kitten
hi, sorry if you took offense. Well, I do disagree that spoilers do have some good opportunities to make some money. I spoiled 1k varnish just today. The manor does definately hurt them but usually the bots are running that anyway. At higher levels, if you just go hunting with your clan they will usually let you keep all the spoils as long as you help the clan sometimes if necessary.
LOL
man you're rich now....
i made 12 millions today with a level 1 char just buying and selling in giran... speak about dwarf superior spoil skill that make them uberrich... make me laught.
market overinflation led by adena farming companies flooding the game with bot-earned currency -> ruin the sole purpose of legit dwarves.
just remove this class from the game or make something to drive dwarves out of this hole. Basically, making them able to pve/pvp better is the only viable way i can see.
SO please you who's spoiled 1k varnish and say we can spoil a ton of good items every day, please enligten me, where can I go and spoil wortfull mats. Just so you know WE CAN'T.
This is what I wrote in another thread just a few moments ago
Wish the NCSoft did osmething about the base mats truly, thers many reasons why animal bone went up like crazy on some servers.
Eg Lionna many want A grade now, requires so many bones and thers not even close to that on the server and will never be.
First of in C4 manor got nerfed they now produce about 30% as many Animal Bone they where capable off befor C4... thats LOTS yes we talk like 30-40k animal bone less per day.
Not only that, the server population geting higher and higher, and did you know, not a single BH abow lv 65 can spoil a SINGLE base mat anymore, yes thats right, no animal bone or whatever, The highest lv mob who spoils base mats is lv 60. Abow this thers not a single mob, spoils here on is crap.
So combination of hte C4 nerf on the manor and that thers no freeking way for the dwarves except running on alts to farm them is relaly wrong, and who want to farm like 20k bone for his gear when he hit 61 with an alt? I for one wuldnt, specialy not as I'm a BH myself and far abow the lv I can spoil mats.
I can say this much, sure i can spoil a few items wich is worth much, does it help? oh hell no it dosnt, most of em never lands on me, Only worthfull item to spoil over lv 65 is Enchant weapon A, aka 15m spoil, but how often do they spoil? well maby once every second day if I play 3-4 hours every day, also how big chans is it that htye land on me? well a bit abow 10% chans.
I have never really ben able to produce lots of cash with my BH at all, and top of that sucking so much in PVP is just nasty.
because each class brings their skills to the party. buffers bring buffs, tanks take care of aggro, sleepers protect the party, a bounty hunter is absolutely worthless without their spoil. Of course people expect you to have spoil by turn or if you prefer you can solo and not get any good recs or parties at all. I sound like a dwarf hater but i have a BH myself.
Okay this is funny thoght, sure a tank is a tank, a buffer is a buffer, but a BH just being there becose they can 'spoil' then what about the rest of the 'useless classes' who bring nothing more then damage? becose yeah BH's can deal damage. If yuo want proof sure, here is your proof:
Quite old pic now but, yeah. we still on other hand lack in PvP, due we get no skills at all to help us here, plus our 'class unique skills' dosnt help to proofit us at all except helping the group we play in geting more cash. Whoever culd do, yes thats right all you need to be is in a party with a BH and you got same benefits as teh BH itself, ever thoght about that?
SO please you who's spoiled 1k varnish and say we can spoil a ton of good items every day, please enligten me, where can I go and spoil wortfull mats. Just so you know WE CAN'T.
This is what I wrote in another thread just a few moments ago
Wish the NCSoft did osmething about the base mats truly, thers many reasons why animal bone went up like crazy on some servers.
Eg Lionna many want A grade now, requires so many bones and thers not even close to that on the server and will never be.
First of in C4 manor got nerfed they now produce about 30% as many Animal Bone they where capable off befor C4... thats LOTS yes we talk like 30-40k animal bone less per day.
Not only that, the server population geting higher and higher, and did you know, not a single BH abow lv 65 can spoil a SINGLE base mat anymore, yes thats right, no animal bone or whatever, The highest lv mob who spoils base mats is lv 60. Abow this thers not a single mob, spoils here on is crap.
So combination of hte C4 nerf on the manor and that thers no freeking way for the dwarves except running on alts to farm them is relaly wrong, and who want to farm like 20k bone for his gear when he hit 61 with an alt? I for one wuldnt, specialy not as I'm a BH myself and far abow the lv I can spoil mats.
I can say this much, sure i can spoil a few items wich is worth much, does it help? oh hell no it dosnt, most of em never lands on me, Only worthfull item to spoil over lv 65 is Enchant weapon A, aka 15m spoil, but how often do they spoil? well maby once every second day if I play 3-4 hours every day, also how big chans is it that htye land on me? well a bit abow 10% chans.
I have never really ben able to produce lots of cash with my BH at all, and top of that sucking so much in PVP is just nasty.
because each class brings their skills to the party. buffers bring buffs, tanks take care of aggro, sleepers protect the party, a bounty hunter is absolutely worthless without their spoil. Of course people expect you to have spoil by turn or if you prefer you can solo and not get any good recs or parties at all. I sound like a dwarf hater but i have a BH myself.
Okay this is funny thoght, sure a tank is a tank, a buffer is a buffer, but a BH just being there becose they can 'spoil' then what about the rest of the 'useless classes' who bring nothing more then damage? becose yeah BH's can deal damage. If yuo want proof sure, here is your proof:
Quite old pic now but, yeah. we still on other hand lack in PvP, due we get no skills at all to help us here, plus our 'class unique skills' dosnt help to proofit us at all except helping the group we play in geting more cash. Whoever culd do, yes thats right all you need to be is in a party with a BH and you got same benefits as teh BH itself, ever thoght about that?
each class has their specific points they are good at and what they were meant to do. The whole point of a game like this is having good points and bad points to each class to make a balance. Sure, 600patck w/ full bd dances, zerg and might 3 and the dwarfs con is so low they cannot even be a backup tank. Whats the point of that dwarf? To make it into something it wasnt meant to be and no matter what you do to a dwarf it will never be a true DD and its a waste of time turning a class into something it isnt.
WS' has siege tools
BH should have something in the realm of pvp but i'm not sure what. Nothing that spectacular just a little something. I imagine the purpose of almost every single dwarf ever created was the player or the bot wanting to make money. There is a reason all bot trains start out with a shillen oracle and a single BH because they make money.
I just made a secondary BH the other weekend. I could barely finish the quest because there was so many bots going through the quest at that time.
dwarves make money, maybe a BH should get a 25% increase on manor goods or perhaps no matter what, a BH can always turn in 100 crops.
dwarves make money, maybe a BH should get a 25% increase on manor goods or perhaps no matter what, a BH can always turn in 100 crops.
i disagree again.
this class is allready screwed by bh bots everywhere, a "solution" like this would flood the market with unneeded materials, bringing more adena on the game and more materials than needed = overinflation.
Item prices would sky rocket everywhere making it even harder for people who don't allready know how to make money in this game.
I do know how to make money in this game, and BH are a joke compared to any lv1 class putting enough time in learning what to buy and what to sell at the right price.
I would completely accept the REMOVAL of all "money making abilities" of BH in the favor of a complete redesign of the class, making them more PVP and PVE oriented.
There is no Fitghing dwarf right now... no one fears a dwarf, they are a joke ! This race needs a boost. Missing the best aspect of the game (i mean pvp) for a "money making ability" that ANYONE can do (i can do more than 5 mil a night, everynight... i DIDI IT FOR MORE THAN 2 MONTHS)
I never ever spoiled anything on a regular basis that could comptete with this kind of earnings.
REMOVE SPOIL = screw bots
everyone then gets on the same ground for getting the materials.
redesign the game, and above all, redesign the BH class.
SO please you who's spoiled 1k varnish and say we can spoil a ton of good items every day, please enligten me, where can I go and spoil wortfull mats. Just so you know WE CAN'T.
This is what I wrote in another thread just a few moments ago
Wish the NCSoft did osmething about the base mats truly, thers many reasons why animal bone went up like crazy on some servers.
Eg Lionna many want A grade now, requires so many bones and thers not even close to that on the server and will never be.
First of in C4 manor got nerfed they now produce about 30% as many Animal Bone they where capable off befor C4... thats LOTS yes we talk like 30-40k animal bone less per day.
Not only that, the server population geting higher and higher, and did you know, not a single BH abow lv 65 can spoil a SINGLE base mat anymore, yes thats right, no animal bone or whatever, The highest lv mob who spoils base mats is lv 60. Abow this thers not a single mob, spoils here on is crap.
So combination of hte C4 nerf on the manor and that thers no freeking way for the dwarves except running on alts to farm them is relaly wrong, and who want to farm like 20k bone for his gear when he hit 61 with an alt? I for one wuldnt, specialy not as I'm a BH myself and far abow the lv I can spoil mats.
I can say this much, sure i can spoil a few items wich is worth much, does it help? oh hell no it dosnt, most of em never lands on me, Only worthfull item to spoil over lv 65 is Enchant weapon A, aka 15m spoil, but how often do they spoil? well maby once every second day if I play 3-4 hours every day, also how big chans is it that htye land on me? well a bit abow 10% chans.
I have never really ben able to produce lots of cash with my BH at all, and top of that sucking so much in PVP is just nasty.
because each class brings their skills to the party. buffers bring buffs, tanks take care of aggro, sleepers protect the party, a bounty hunter is absolutely worthless without their spoil. Of course people expect you to have spoil by turn or if you prefer you can solo and not get any good recs or parties at all. I sound like a dwarf hater but i have a BH myself.
Okay this is funny thoght, sure a tank is a tank, a buffer is a buffer, but a BH just being there becose they can 'spoil' then what about the rest of the 'useless classes' who bring nothing more then damage? becose yeah BH's can deal damage. If yuo want proof sure, here is your proof:
Quite old pic now but, yeah. we still on other hand lack in PvP, due we get no skills at all to help us here, plus our 'class unique skills' dosnt help to proofit us at all except helping the group we play in geting more cash. Whoever culd do, yes thats right all you need to be is in a party with a BH and you got same benefits as teh BH itself, ever thoght about that?
each class has their specific points they are good at and what they were meant to do. The whole point of a game like this is having good points and bad points to each class to make a balance. Sure, 600patck w/ full bd dances, zerg and might 3 and the dwarfs con is so low they cannot even be a backup tank. Whats the point of that dwarf? To make it into something it wasnt meant to be and no matter what you do to a dwarf it will never be a true DD and its a waste of time turning a class into something it isnt.
WS' has siege tools
BH should have something in the realm of pvp but i'm not sure what. Nothing that spectacular just a little something. I imagine the purpose of almost every single dwarf ever created was the player or the bot wanting to make money. There is a reason all bot trains start out with a shillen oracle and a single BH because they make money.
I just made a secondary BH the other weekend. I could barely finish the quest because there was so many bots going through the quest at that time.
dwarves make money, maybe a BH should get a 25% increase on manor goods or perhaps no matter what, a BH can always turn in 100 crops.
Obviously you must be new to playing dwarves. Like Ple said, there is no way for high lvl dwarves to spoil base materials. I'm a Fortune Seeker and the only thing I spoil is Sgrade parts and Enchants. Sometimes Enria, Ori ore, asofe thats about it..
dwarves make money, maybe a BH should get a 25% increase on manor goods or perhaps no matter what, a BH can always turn in 100 crops.
i disagree again.
this class is allready screwed by bh bots everywhere, a "solution" like this would flood the market with unneeded materials, bringing more adena on the game and more materials than needed = overinflation.
Item prices would sky rocket everywhere making it even harder for people who don't allready know how to make money in this game.
I do know how to make money in this game, and BH are a joke compared to any lv1 class putting enough time in learning what to buy and what to sell at the right price.
I would completely accept the REMOVAL of all "money making abilities" of BH in the favor of a complete redesign of the class, making them more PVP and PVE oriented.
There is no Fitghing dwarf right now... no one fears a dwarf, they are a joke ! This race needs a boost. Missing the best aspect of the game (i mean pvp) for a "money making ability" that ANYONE can do (i can do more than 5 mil a night, everynight... i DIDI IT FOR MORE THAN 2 MONTHS)
I never ever spoiled anything on a regular basis that could comptete with this kind of earnings.
REMOVE SPOIL = screw bots
everyone then gets on the same ground for getting the materials.
redesign the game, and above all, redesign the BH class.
You're joking right? Somebody obviously doesn't understand economics. Item prices go DOWN with manor useage. The manor system CONSUMES adena from players and castle lords to PRODUCE materials/items. The manors thus DECREASE item prices. Operational manor systems have a DIRECT impact on server item value, especially basic crafting. Hindemith has experienced times of extreme difficulty on the market with item values inflating almost 500% when all the manors have gone down. Siege weekends alone, you can track mat prices increasing over a few days because some lords don't want to risk losing a M adena if their castle gets taken over.
There is absolutely NO way BH/WS should be taken from the game simply because they are a support race. The dwarves are a support race. They have NO fighters. Look at the female dwarves. Hell, LOOK AT THE MEN. Look at the summons for sieges! Dwarves are an entertaining support RACE. Many many many players choose support classes. Now I'm all for making support classes more pvp hardy, but dwarves (BH/WS) are in no way especially inept more than others. If anything they are stronger in pvp than your classic healer like a bishop or worse, elven elder.
You want to fix melee? Give them all a 1 min sprint to move at double speed every 5 mins. Make TH sprint 4x speed. Everyone will be playing all the classes, they will ALL be good then. But that's just one way you could do it.
>> Make TH sprint 4x speed.
Hell no! I play TH and w/ ww2,zerk2,SoW and equipment dash can surpass 270, you need close to zero ping w/ that speed to properly navigate (unless no obstacles at all)
If wonder if that would be enough to kite antharas in c5 w/ renewal (and all speed boosts, incl S grade dagger) to get permanent dash.
=====
But yes manor lower the prices significantly, down w/ hinde Oren manor.
Somebody obviously doesn't understand economics. Item prices go DOWN with manor useage. .... blah blah blah...
yeah i agree, and ?
i also said : redesign of THE GAME AND BH.
they CAN indeed make material dopr x 5 or x10 if they want...
Actually, the BH class is completely screwed by BH bots representing more than 90% of the BH (don't say it's not the case, it may also be 99%). Adding something to make this class earn more mats or money is not helping the few legit BH out here, but making them less and less usefull because we can't compete with the materials and adena produced by bots.
A change is needed. A big one... or things will only get worse and worse for legit BH each time they redesign the game (adding manors, etc) without thinking about us.
so again u show ur a total fool... you are asking to nerf us... between sentences even just to delete us cause were so **** useless....
ya never thought about that if the many farmer bots were the only ones making bh's teh prices wouldnt skyrocket? wouldnt even be suprised if they would ask 10k+ for a varnish if they could.... and they would... so i completly agree with other posters boost the bh, either let us keep spoils (like prelude), give additional spoils or make us usefull in pvp
Artisan/ws's atleast got their seige golems to help out teh ally and craft... a bh can do what? spoil?
ya can get moer mats faster manoring or killing a single raidboss (if ya ever get a force there before raidboss farmers or kill them while they are killing it
so again u show ur a total fool... you are asking to nerf us... between sentences even just to delete us cause were so **** useless....
yes, this class is a shame for a game like this. BH have no role at all in raids, siege, and big pvp wars, which are the best of the end game content.
ya never thought about that if the many farmer bots were the only ones making bh's teh prices wouldnt skyrocket? wouldnt even be suprised if they would ask 10k+ for a varnish if they could.... and they would...
it's allready the case, you think the 1000 varnish "you" spoiled mean something in the server production of varnish... legit BH material production is a drop in the ocean of the manors and BH bots.
open your eyes man.... you're not driving any economy at all... the manor is.
redesign is the only solution right now, either you screw the BH (++ manor) or make them material gods (++ spoils), you'll never ever control anything in the gobal market, but suffer from it.
good spots are allready infested with bots spoiling the mats 24/24, i'm glad they nerfed the spoil rate... or i wouldn't be able to play anywhere now, because of bot overpopulation ...
right, i'm fed up with my class, the game is spoiled (lol) by too many unlegit ways of getting money, which is the sole purpose of making a BH... so.. BH need a radical change.
BTW, i'll stick to my class and grind to 75 untill i can choose a sub.... that is the only dream the BH can have ?
One player will NEVER have influence on a server market. The famers do not have influence based on class but based on population. If you had an ally of 40 BHs you would have great influence on server prices if you worked together. 1 legit BH intrinsicly isn't enough. People choose a different class and choose to ebay. There in lies the real problem that makes you less valuable.
One player will NEVER have influence on a server market.
sorry, but it's wrong:
I did it. And it was quite easy. I was controlling the prices of doom helmets (back in the old days) for almost a month ...and made some really nice millions but at the end i couldn't keep it under control and had to sell quickly the remaining stock i had.
well.. short story.. ok that's something different from basic materials and i was not trying to say that one BH should be able to control anything rather: ALL legit BH can't control ANYTHING (based on his spoils) because of BH bot overpopulation and manor system.
Guess what, ?... i'm not happy at all beeing a slave of those morrons running bots nor castle lords producing seeds. BH "cash making abilities" are conditioned and regulated by something else, thus making them basic workers, and not kings of material income as they SHOULD be.
The famers do not have influence based on class but based on population. If you had an ally of 40 BHs you would have great influence on server prices if you worked together. 1 legit BH intrinsicly isn't enough. People choose a different class and choose to ebay. There in lies the real problem that makes you less valuable.
gotta aggree with that xcept for the 40BH part.. 40 legit BH really exist on one server ?... doubt that, and even if it's true, 40 BH << 1000 BH bots running 24/24.
One player will NEVER have influence on a server market.
Sure they could. Give me 200mil and I will make you 1billion in a matter of days controling the crystal prices.
Only if others are too lazy to follow, but people catch on. I have 500 M in net worth. People started driving crystal prices up, so I started undercutting. Which is the principle of a free economy. That's not influence, it's economics. You can't control a price unless you control supply. You can't charge whatever you want for crystals, just more. And if you charge enough they won't buy. If you charge for too long, somebody beats you to your own game. All you've really done is discover that an item was undervalued and people were willing to charge more. That's not influence, it's just working with the market. That value is purely a function of # of items in circulation, demand, and adena in the hands of those with demand.
Even 1000 BH Bots don't influence basic mat prices. There is too much out there moving around between them, manors, and regular drops. The market decides value, you have to control both ends of the chain to monopolize.
I still don't see how dwarves will be able to compete in pvp.....not enough skills for them to be efficient. Even though WS is miles ahead of BH..
Give BH to summon a wolf with high p.atack and good hp, thats all. I will love to have pet support on soloing and pvp :) I try to lvl a wolf, but its harder then lvl BH to 75 and i give up :confused:
show some <3 for BH :mad:
Wolves are only hard to lvl if you are trying to power lvl one, if you have a character around the same lvl as the wolf it is easy. It takes time, but what doesn't in this game.
::added::
I only wish I started my wolf at the same time as my BH :(
A new concept in raid boss rewards has been introduced to the world of Lineage2.
40+ Raid Mobs will drop various life orbs which can be turned in at adventurer's guild NPCs for C-A grade items (Weapons, Armor, Accessories and hair accessories)
If a clan has the "raid monster characteristic" (???), the clan can find out from the Adventurer's guild NPC what A drops a given raid monster can drop. (not sure on this translation...but it seems right)
(Something else about adventurers' guild and A weapon armor???)
You can also gamble with the life orbs with the NPC.
mb just delete dwarfes from game it will be easyer?
One player will NEVER have influence on a server market.
Sure they could. Give me 200mil and I will make you 1billion in a matter of days controling the crystal prices.
Only if others are too lazy to follow, but people catch on. I have 500 M in net worth. People started driving crystal prices up, so I started undercutting. Which is the principle of a free economy. That's not influence, it's economics. You can't control a price unless you control supply. You can't charge whatever you want for crystals, just more. And if you charge enough they won't buy. If you charge for too long, somebody beats you to your own game. All you've really done is discover that an item was undervalued and people were willing to charge more. That's not influence, it's just working with the market. That value is purely a function of # of items in circulation, demand, and adena in the hands of those with demand.
Even 1000 BH Bots don't influence basic mat prices. There is too much out there moving around between them, manors, and regular drops. The market decides value, you have to control both ends of the chain to monopolize.
How wants to control prices down? Controling crystal prices to drive them up is easily done. Buy everybodies stock, and set the price for 2k aboce theirs in the middle of the night. People wake up and set their price for 1k below yours. Netx night, buy em all again, do the same. Prices will go up.
One thing is sure i gave up my BH since c2, share spoils is ruins, and all that said before, dwarfs suck so bad, and what make me more mad everysecond i run on my dwarf is that everyone thinks you have a wallet stocked with 999m a and other one with 999m aa, somethin must be done so dwarfs can rise again, and i will gladly come back to being a dwarf.
Cant kill, cant solo, cant spoil, even the darkest blue mob beat me badly without ss, so its worse than rl, why to bother? , ah i almost forgot, get party is a rare item now, there is no one willing to make a non spoil share party so.... what is gonna be? ncsoft should just delete dwarfs at this rate... :mad:
huh? I can spoil varnish/leather/charcoal all day long no problem with either vr or heal pots if i have to and no buffs and no ss. I love my spoiler in conjunction with my crafter. I made a ton of mid d grade yesterday and crushed it for around 3500 crystals.
huh? I can spoil varnish/leather/charcoal all day long no problem with either vr or heal pots if i have to and no buffs and no ss. I love my spoiler in conjunction with my crafter. I made a ton of mid d grade yesterday and crushed it for around 3500 crystals.
and ?
playing a class as a main and play a sub one day for 3500 D crystals (that is nothing to brag about man...) is 2 completly different things.
Just like some people like to fish sometimes, you say you play with your dwarf sometimes... well... this just show how much it is a joke. Imagine your only skill is fishing.. how cool it 'd be to play l2 as a fisherman class !... you have no clue (oh oh sure.. fishing can make you "rich" too !! IMO this should be a 2d class change alterntive for dwarves then ! *joke NC, don't do it !*)
I wanted to air out my complains a little and dont get too much into the things already said, well beatin mobs 50+ is not easy if you dont want to spend a hell of money on ss,pots,scrolls,bsoes and such, in the end the stuff you get at that point is c grade equip mats and maybe, just maybe some nice recipe, or you can try EV, oh but you remember mobs there have X2,X3 hp and what about you? beating them is gettin X2,X3 harder then you get the part of adventurer from dwarfs, they are small suicide bombs runing around lol :) ok nvm :p im losing it :cool:
Ah i forgot since when ss is a must? is supposed to be the edge to fight in pvp or some hard stuff, not "any" stuff... its an extra cost that kills... your wallet... ::pk wallet!::
I have been reading the boards for several months now, but this thread made me decide to sign up and post. While my main is not a Dwarf, I rolled one to help finance my expeditions. I already have links to several high level Warsmiths, so I decided to go for Bounty Hunter. For a while he sat around, as leveling a fighter is an awful experience. I bought a second account and began using him to level a Shilien Elder and things are much better now.
I agree that the Dwarves need some boosting. While I can be considered a newbie, from reading these posts it appears that Dwarves have been inadvertently shafted due to other classes need for nerfing. The story of the Dwarves within the Lineage universe tells that they are the vital force controlling the world’s economy. However, this is no longer the case, and lots of Adena will never be equal to amazing PvP skills (which is where they appear to be most lacking, and the true point of this game).
As far as comparing skills, Warsmiths do seem to have a better use in the game. The manor system appears to have replaced the need for Bounty Hunters, in general. So what would be some good boosts to our height-challenged friends?
Within the mythology of Lineage, Dwarves are the followers of Maphr. Dwarves are the only race that does not have mystical specialties. The other Gods grant many gifts upon their followers, even the fighters! However, for some reason Maphr seems to have granted none (other than spoil and craft). So my first suggestion would be add some mystic appeal to Dwarves. The new C5 toggle that allows them to resist sleep and shock could change to a self-buff: Blessing of Maphr. Are Dwarves the only race without self-buffs? Perhaps this could have a stronger effect than the other’s toggles as well as Mental Shield and Resist Shock. Any other suggestions for self-buffs?
Also, while I think each Dwarf class should be given one type of magical attack granted to them by Maphr, I can not think of one. Any suggestions?
All races, excluding Dwarves who have completed their second class transfer, could be subject to a low tax amount on their buy/sell shop. The various Dwarf guilds have pacts with the Lords preventing the taxation of their goods and services. I suggest the tax amount be set at something below 1%. The Lords should not have any control in this tax as well. As there is nothing less than 1 Adena (that I am aware of), the system will hold anything over .0 until it reaches .5. Then it will round up, in favor of the Lords, and deposit it into their treasury. This may also boost the appeal of Giran Castle.
For Warsmiths, let’s begin with their summons. The problem with fighter/summoner hybrids is their incapability to tend to their summons. Warsmith should receive a Repair Golem skill, it may only be used on the Mechanical Golem. This should not be as quick as Servitor Heal and take several seconds to complete. It will be intended as something to be done after disposing of the mob(s). This could consume mana or maybe some type of consumable.
My next suggestion would be allowing high level Warsmiths (possibly even Maestros) the ability to exchange d-grade armor to low or mid c-grade, as Trader of Mammon does not have this function. This would be an exceptional boost for newbies who had a hard enough time getting d-grade armor and fretting over c-grade. Another possibility could be the talent to exchange c-grade weapons to low or mid b-grade. These exchanges however should require some type of consumable as well as whatever Adena cost the Warsmith sets forth. To protect players, this skill can be available in a private creation type setting.
The final boost for the Warsmith, would be a nerf on the town blacksmith. Increase their failure rate. Even it it’s a 100% recipe, the town blacksmith should have an 80 or even 70% failure rate. This will encourage the use of player character Dwarves. Please support your community members before your local non-player character!
Next, let us look at possibilities for Bounty Hunters. While crafting for a Warsmith is to spoiling for a Bounty Hunter, what is summoning to? With the Warsmith, we see that Dwarves do have the capability for crafting and using some type of gunpowder. Thus I suggest a Hand Cannon summon for the Scavenger. The Hand Cannon (two-handed) will be a ranged-attack summon that automatically removes the equipped weapon and/or shield. I suggest its range be somewhere well below 900 (as Dwarves have heavy armor mastery). At later levels the cannon could possibly include an area of effect attack.
The next summon, to be given at Bounty Hunter class could be a bomb. This summon could provide one or more bombs (limit 5) that when thrown creates an area of effect attack. This would be decently powerful and should consume more experience than the Hand Cannon. The range on this should be less than the Hand Cannon skill. A different twist on this would be a land mine/trap summon. This skill could only be used while fleeing and must be dropped from behind the Dwarf as he runs. When it comes in contact with mobs, it explodes.
While my Bounty Hunter is not near end-game content, it does seem rather odd that base materials aren’t spoilable from higher mobs, yet higher grade gear requires more materials. This does not encourage Fortune Seekers! Allow more mobs to spoil base materials, and have higher level mobs spoil a varying degree of more. For instance a level 60 mob could give 2-4 animal bones in one spoil, while a level 65 could give 4-6.
I liked the earlier suggestion of a special spoil simply for the Bounty Hunter. I think this should be a late level skill, which could possibly spoil new mid-grade weapons of any varying grade. Although a whole weapon spoil should be vary rare, the special spoil should provide better spoils to the Bounty Hunter nonetheless.
While it is too late to implement any of these proposed changes, there is one thing we can all do: Please try to buy from legit Dwarves. This is dependant upon every player! There are many on my server in Giran with nonsensical names (the types who associate with those who have issues with town guards).
I have to admit I read very very little of the post, but noticed Sith's post about the market and monopolizing. Currently on Hinde there are only monopolies with 2 items, A grade crystals and A grade helmats. S grade are generally available, just expensive. Occasionally real players get 11-12 crystals from baium and lilith, but those are always used immediately and never sold by those clans. Level 13s come out of the rift so the market is a little less constrained on those ---------- however those are indirectly controlled by the supply of 12s. I don't know how it is on other servers, but on Hindemith level 12s are roughly 65-70 million - a market price set by farmers. This drives 13s to 150mill or so (250 mill by farmers, but players undercut them because of rift bosses).
A grade helmats just don't drop enough, and farmers camp those boss, yes one, that drops NM / Maj helm, since every armor set robe/heavy/light requires one, they have 3x the demand of the other pieces. AFAIK Tallum helm is about 120m, DC 160, maj and nm 200+ on Hinde, I have no idea how that compares to other servers.
It's true you can make a lot of money selling crystals, since there are so many players who need like 10 of them to craft jewelry and dont really care about what it will cost to get them, etc. Only the players who buy in bulk generally care about the price.
I could not read all the pages of moaning. If you are having problems getting groups, you might want to learn some knock knock jokes. (*between the lines* it might not be your class that is the problem with finding parties) If it hurts your ego that people arent jumping up and down to party with you, quit and make a se or bd. if you have to be able to kill anyone thats close to your level, play a nuker. I love turning mobs blue, and i enjoy sharing spoils so everyone is having fun. and the fact is, when partying, you will kill more mobs, so wanting to keep all the spoils is selfish. You get 3 times as many mats as you could every get by yourself. how could you possibly want them all. If you have to solo, get some str/dex tats. with the tats and proper buffs, i do 2k damage on a crit of like level mobs. I love the HP, I LOOOVVVEE the spoiling, and I LOVE the stun. I LOVE FAKE DEATH ( and so do the bots)I LOVE THE BH. the class has a lot of plusses, and used properly, you can have all kinds of fun.
but seriously, they need a p atk skill or at least some m def.
So the nukers have to nuke you 10 times instead of 2-5. nukers love being stunned. they just love it
for ewb's play the rooms with snakes and fatties in apostate/patriots, you should get one every 2-6 hours depending on how fast you kill em, and a billion BO recipes!!
i agree with everything you said, still.. you fail to see that this is not enough... it's by far insufficient to make a class worth beeing played.
try a nuker, an archer (or even WC, BD...) .. you'll discover what L2 is really about : raids, pvp.
And about the money "problem" there are other easy ways to make more money than a BH could do in 3 lifespan.
Each chronicle make BH worst and worst... you can be satified with what you have, but I don't take it and I expect more from this game: balance.
Level 75+ mobs should be spoiling high end craft materials including Mithril Alloy, Synthesis Cokes, Durable Metal Plates, and Varnish of Purity instead of weapon/armor/jewel parts.
huh? I can spoil varnish/leather/charcoal all day long no problem with either vr or heal pots if i have to and no buffs and no ss. I love my spoiler in conjunction with my crafter. I made a ton of mid d grade yesterday and crushed it for around 3500 crystals.
and ?
playing a class as a main and play a sub one day for 3500 D crystals (that is nothing to brag about man...) is 2 completly different things.
Just like some people like to fish sometimes, you say you play with your dwarf sometimes... well... this just show how much it is a joke. Imagine your only skill is fishing.. how cool it 'd be to play l2 as a fisherman class !... you have no clue (oh oh sure.. fishing can make you "rich" too !! IMO this should be a 2d class change alterntive for dwarves then ! *joke NC, don't do it !*)
I dont consider my dwarf as my main and I dont plan on leveling him above level 40. Sure, 3500 d crys and 500 c crys a day is nothing to brag about but multiply that over a year and the money is good. Also, if I want to spoil and level another character from 30-40s I can just go and spoil mobs and have that character sit in the same area.
To me my spoiler and crafter arent mains, they are a means to an end for making adena for my real main. I enjoy different classes and by playing several different classes I dont really get sick of grinding/spoiling/crafting. If I get bored of one thing, I can just go do another.
You can spoil key mats, you can spoil 3-10x more mats than an average player can get via drops.
The only lacking area for spoilers is around 40-55. It all depends what you want your dwarf to do.
You can either want him high level to spoil key A grade mats.
You can have him low to mid level to spoil tons of animal bone/varnish/seed for manor at the same time.
You can use him to powerlevel chacters using a polearm or a big boom if you are a WS.
You can use the WS for sieges if you want.
All dwarves are multifunction moreso than any other class in the game. They have many uses and I think its really your fault for not finding a good way to take advantage of them. Dwarves will always suck at pvp and they will never have huge dd skills and instead of complaining you might want to find a way to make your dwarf work in a profitable or fun way /thread.
LOL
man you're rich now....
i made 12 millions today with a level 1 char just buying and selling in giran... speak about dwarf superior spoil skill that make them uberrich... make me laught.
market overinflation led by adena farming companies flooding the game with bot-earned currency -> ruin the sole purpose of legit dwarves.
just remove this class from the game or make something to drive dwarves out of this hole. Basically, making them able to pve/pvp better is the only viable way i can see.
Wow, you are really becoming a jerk and I imagine dwarves isnt the only thing people like you complain about, sounds like you have one of those 'poor me' attitudes.
It's not ncsofts fault that people sell their items for too cheap and some sell it for too high. You dont gain xp while playing the market, you dont enjoy any game content, you dont party with people etc. Dwarves cannot be upgraded just because people can play the market. Get more than a few dozen people trying to play the market everyday and you are going to find that it is not a profitable solution.
SO please you who's spoiled 1k varnish and say we can spoil a ton of good items every day, please enligten me, where can I go and spoil wortfull mats. Just so you know WE CAN'T.
This is what I wrote in another thread just a few moments ago
Wish the NCSoft did osmething about the base mats truly, thers many reasons why animal bone went up like crazy on some servers.
Eg Lionna many want A grade now, requires so many bones and thers not even close to that on the server and will never be.
First of in C4 manor got nerfed they now produce about 30% as many Animal Bone they where capable off befor C4... thats LOTS yes we talk like 30-40k animal bone less per day.
Not only that, the server population geting higher and higher, and did you know, not a single BH abow lv 65 can spoil a SINGLE base mat anymore, yes thats right, no animal bone or whatever, The highest lv mob who spoils base mats is lv 60. Abow this thers not a single mob, spoils here on is crap.
So combination of hte C4 nerf on the manor and that thers no freeking way for the dwarves except running on alts to farm them is relaly wrong, and who want to farm like 20k bone for his gear when he hit 61 with an alt? I for one wuldnt, specialy not as I'm a BH myself and far abow the lv I can spoil mats.
I can say this much, sure i can spoil a few items wich is worth much, does it help? oh hell no it dosnt, most of em never lands on me, Only worthfull item to spoil over lv 65 is Enchant weapon A, aka 15m spoil, but how often do they spoil? well maby once every second day if I play 3-4 hours every day, also how big chans is it that htye land on me? well a bit abow 10% chans.
I have never really ben able to produce lots of cash with my BH at all, and top of that sucking so much in PVP is just nasty.
because each class brings their skills to the party. buffers bring buffs, tanks take care of aggro, sleepers protect the party, a bounty hunter is absolutely worthless without their spoil. Of course people expect you to have spoil by turn or if you prefer you can solo and not get any good recs or parties at all. I sound like a dwarf hater but i have a BH myself.
Okay this is funny thoght, sure a tank is a tank, a buffer is a buffer, but a BH just being there becose they can 'spoil' then what about the rest of the 'useless classes' who bring nothing more then damage? becose yeah BH's can deal damage. If yuo want proof sure, here is your proof:
Quite old pic now but, yeah. we still on other hand lack in PvP, due we get no skills at all to help us here, plus our 'class unique skills' dosnt help to proofit us at all except helping the group we play in geting more cash. Whoever culd do, yes thats right all you need to be is in a party with a BH and you got same benefits as teh BH itself, ever thoght about that?
This is going to seem lame but I wont tell you where to farm varnish and other key mats at a high amount because that means more people there which meansn less mobs and more of that item on the market...my dwarf is to make myself money not other people ;D
only three posts in a row??!!?? its just irratating for some dwarf players that there greatest ability (making money) is a non issue for most people. a class that costs twice as much money to run, and makes a third of the money, should have inferior equipment than any dwarf the same level. but when most everyone you run across at similar levels has consistently better equipment, its frustrating. I've learned that im never going to compete with cheaters, and getting upset about it will do no good. I just keep hanging with my friends, enjoy the excitement of not knowing what is going to be spoiled, and be soothed by the sound of aoe.
A little more p atk and m def would be really appreciated. Its sad when almost any other class in the game can beat up on a dwarf. and it just takes way too long to bring down a mob solo. and someone had it right. A-grade dwarfs need to spoil mithril alloy or VOP or more multiple spoils in addition to key mats.
It is not only the Bounty Hunters
The Warsmiths suffer a much much bigger disadvantage even
The problem doesn't lies so much in skills, but in the
mentallity of the people playing!
Whenever a dwarf is party'd at one moment or another u get
to hear u sucj annyways, but here's the fresh news, whitout
us bounty hunters and Warsmiths you people would only
walk arround in stupid Luxury shop items at most!
And even those u wouldn't get because u need crystals, so, if
u like u'r B - A and S grade gears, pay respect for the
dwarves
and whenever u see on looking for a group take him in,
he just might give u the item u need or craft for free for you
Warsmiths are a clan and friend class, period - and they render a service to the clan, while making money off the people who didn't party them. Don't expect to get into pickup groups without going the extra mile - because de facto, that warsmith that you let into your party will likely run off never to be seen again.
Stick to your friendlist (best made in Giran - you'll meet people who are more interested in money than EXP there most easily - that means potential partymates - on forums and at the racetrack arena) and clan for parties, don't expect to be picked up as a tank or DD unless there's a spare slot and no other taker.
Wow, you are really becoming a jerk and I imagine dwarves isnt the only thing people like you complain about, sounds like you have one of those 'poor me' attitudes.
Who are you to judge people like this ? i have something to say about a class that i actually play as a main (and not stay <40 for whatever reason). You can disagree, but speaking like this contributes nothing to the thread... and is a direct personnal attack.
Try a personnal attack again and you'll be dealing with the moderators... (i don't have the "poor me" attitude, i can answer attacks... try me... i'd gladly show you..)
It's not ncsofts fault that people sell their items for too cheap and some sell it for too high.
who cares ? did someone complain about this ? i don't think so...
You dont gain xp while playing the market, you dont enjoy any game content, you dont party with people etc.
again.. who cares ? you can't judge the way people have fun with the game. What makes you think it's better to play for levels ? or only pvp ? or only party ?
I may talk and meet more people playing the market in giran than a level 75 nuker with his own buffbot have met in his whole L2 gaming advendure...
Everything depends on the aim you have in the game.
Some want to be high level
Some want to meet players and talk a lot and find friends they don't have IRL,
Others want to get rich... or kill special raid bosses, or siege and win a castle.
ETC...
you can't judge the reason why people play the game and say it's wrong (unless they break the EULA).
Most of the players who play dwarves as a main may do so because they read on this website that they are the race that can earn the most money... this is obviously wrong... This is what we're saying here. they can make money, but it's not the BEST way of making money... so what's the point playing this class since it's its best side ? ANY other class would be better for any other reason of playing... and since any other class is allready better for *really* making money (not some stupid millions people seem to be proud of..., talking about x100millions here ok !), the dwarves are screwed.
It's not a complaint, it's FACTS, and we need to state them since NCSoft don't seem to see.... People who think NCSoft know it and don't care are indeed the one who wine.
Dwarves cannot be upgraded just because people can play the market. Get more than a few dozen people trying to play the market everyday and you are going to find that it is not a profitable solution.
have to disagree here:
yes, dwarves HAVE to be upgraded JUST because anyone can make more money than a dwarf timewise without any skill (be it playing the market or ebay or whatever). Money is no more an issue for dwarves compared to other classes.
And, btw, there are allready much more than 12 people playing the market everyday...
While we all know that dwarves in L2 are supposed to make money and that is what they are about, adding new spoils, better spoils, or better spoil drop tables will only benefit the farmers. This is not something I feel would help BHs. If new combat skills are added we will be getting compensated for the skill that was removed from us (making adena), without benefiting farmers by providing them with even more loot.
/deleted because i got 1/2 way through and the OP told me not to comment on it.
to OPs suggestion: make spoil work on reds and in seiges. if you get spoiled AND swept you drop gear (just as if you had died from a mob, but including equiped weapon) to the dwarf that swept you. new gank partys will consist of: Necro, Necro, BH...
...no im not kidding, i think spoil should work in seiges. now BH can DO something at a seige, instead of running around real slow and failing to stun.
PS: ...as long as bots dont show up to seiges...
other side effects include: people would not bring their uber+++ equip to seiges, ebayers might be hesitant to buy a 300m weapon which could be easily lost, and everyone would seige in B grade or lower gear, trying to hide their level from attacking BHs.
When I see in town private craft shops that provide all their craft list at 0.01% of price 24/7, I wonder why I'm still playing my WS when I can do crafting on any other char.
Recipe:BW Helmet costs 4.5M, private craft shops craft for 50k fee so you need someone to craft it 100 times to get back what you paid for recipe :(
As for PVP, at beginning dwarves weren't so gimp at it. Yes, they lacked skills but stun was very good. Every chronicle gave something to other classes and nerfed dwarven PVP abilities a bit.
When I chose a dwarf, I chose a class that can craft but still manage in PVP and has better equipment than others - now, after 5 chronicles, all these 3 statements are false.
craft shop prices, like the party loot, is a social problem. people like to provide low prices on crafting so that other people will like them or they will get recs or something. the price of craft shops should actually be slightly Higher than the town BS, since you dont have to have the recipie for each item made. problem is that people either feel bad charging so much or trying to undercut the person next to them way too much. 1 adena crafts should be reserved for clannies, if everyone actually charged people to use their service then you might be able to make money from it.
craft shop prices, like the party loot, is a social problem. people like to provide low prices on crafting so that other people will like them or they will get recs or something. the price of craft shops should actually be slightly Higher than the town BS, since you dont have to have the recipie for each item made. problem is that people either feel bad charging so much or trying to undercut the person next to them way too much. 1 adena crafts should be reserved for clannies, if everyone actually charged people to use their service then you might be able to make money from it.
I'm unfamiliar with the term "town BS" . . . what is that?
Ok I'm stupid and figured itout . .Black Smith derrrrrrrr :eek:
Anyhow my comment is . . . if you sold the item slightly higher than the BS . . . why would anyone want to use your skills when they could just go to him (the NPC) and pay less?
craft shop prices, like the party loot, is a social problem. people like to provide low prices on crafting so that other people will like them or they will get recs or something. the price of craft shops should actually be slightly Higher than the town BS, since you dont have to have the recipie for each item made. problem is that people either feel bad charging so much or trying to undercut the person next to them way too much. 1 adena crafts should be reserved for clannies, if everyone actually charged people to use their service then you might be able to make money from it.
The social problem is all those dwarves that set exhorbitant prices for their craft shops if you ask me. Yes it can be hard to get a certain recipe and hard to find stuff should cost more to craft. But the shot recipes and the material recipes are'nt that difficult to come by and people charging 50k for one DMP craft are still living in the past where that recipe was impossible to get. I had my DMP rec within 2 days of C4 hitting the live servers andd saw lots of them for sale for over a mil each. (hint if you have 5 DMP recipes yourself and so does every other shop in Giran...well it's not worth a mil in adena folks)
I hardly ever set up a craft shop but when I do I set my prices lower than those around me so that I will make money. Face it I am getting adena while afk. I don't have to do anything at the computer.
At 1a price I am still making a profit on crafting. If you want the prices on your server to drop start charging less to get things done.
Ok I'm stupid and figured itout . .Black Smith derrrrrrrr :eek:
Anyhow my comment is . . . if you sold the item slightly higher than the BS . . . why would anyone want to use your skills when they could just go to him (the NPC) and pay less?
For the NPC you will also need to give him the recipe. It doesnt maters for B and A crafts, if npc blacksmith have those becouse you will still need a recipe to craft. But Imagine you will need 100 cbp, then you will have to also have 100 of those recipes on you..
As for PVP, at beginning dwarves weren't so gimp at it. Yes, they lacked skills but stun was very good. Every chronicle gave something to other classes and nerfed dwarven PVP abilities a bit.
/appologies to the OP since i replied to the wrong half of what was said >.<
as for PvP skills, what skill does BH need to make them scary in PvP? i suggested spoil work in seiges, i dont know anything that would make sense to give to WS, but kneecap snashing (overhit skill that slows opponent) sounds justified to me.
Then Ramadear, please enlighten all of us lowly humans as to what the truth about dwarves are.
We certainly know they aren't DD, so thats their contribution to the group.
They are neither healers nor tanks. So what is left for them to be? What else can they contribute to the group? And they certainly must contribute something, for they are equally sharing in all of the experience, adena, and normal drops the group is earning with a disequal contribution if they are neither filling one of the above roles nor sharing their spoils.
Is it all right for a healer to go, "Sorry guys, but the heals are all for me" or a prophet to go, "Sorry guys but the buffs are all for me"?
This is the exact kind of dwarf hatred that really gets under my skin, because what you are saying is that I a Warsmith can contribute nothing to the group, and therefore do not deserve an invite. I'm not a DD, a healer, a nuker, so therefore, you don't need to group me because I offer you nothing. Wow so much for comraderie, so much for playing with people because you like to group with different people.
Your logic is flawed, healers play a class where they are designed to heal. I feel sorry for Prophets too, because now most are boxed and are only in group when there is an empty spot, because otherwise they don't "add" anything to the group for 20 minutes.
Should BH's share their spoils? That's up to the BH and how they want to play that. But I want to be in parties that want me for my personality and not because I "offer" the party some nifty skill, because I sure as heck DON'T HAVE ANY NIFTY PARTY SKILLS. I don't have them. So all you dwarf haters out there can just leave our class alone, because some of us still like to play the class we chose back in Prelude/Open Beta, even with all of the racism these servers are froth with.
I can make from 20m-50m+ per night. Its possible believe me. Give me a pm and I'll let you know some good spots. Whats your level?
I'm sorry, but you are just smoking. Smoking, smoking, smoking. BH making 20-50 mill per night, means one, that you're not in a party that's splitting up that loot by 3 or more people, and two and you're playing the market and not spoiling mats. Sorry, but if you main a dwarf, you have lost the dwarf perspective... Take your Bill Gates millions and invest in Humans, Elves or Orcs.
My WS is my main and after being here since CB I've finally hit 60 and am doing the wedding dress quest.
Goal #1 finally reached..... Goal #2 to hit 75 and sub a more lvl-able class :(
We do need some serious overhauling in the skill department though... dwarves are so shafted.
Wow, my same predicament. Been playing a WS since Prelude or shortly into C1 and just barely hit level 60, and have no hopes of subclassing legitimately before C6, unless I give up my job and play full time. Yeah I meant C6...
Bounty Hunters are supposed to be the daring adventurers, who travel to places far and dangerous, boldly trying to gather a few rare materials from hostile mobs....
Warsmiths on the other hand sit in their forge, twiddling their thumbs, waiting for one of the Bounty Hunters to bring them the material, so that they can create a weapon from it, in the absolute safety of a town, protected by walls and guards....
And the cowardly smithies are the better fighters ? Come on.
Ruthless Kitten
And I thought you loved me... Wow Schmuse ist doch boese Heute! Lieb dich!
Its good for everyone, though NCSoft (as I said above) should have been sensible and given dwarves other things.
They already have special abilities for
-Scamming
-Lying
-and making fun of
newbies.
...what do they need more?
Oh boy... Another one hits the fan... Since when do dwarves have the corner on these skills? Last I checked most of the scammers that find themselves covered by the anti-scammer kitty on Gustin are not dwarves. We can't help if farmers/botters use dwarves, but we can defend ourselves if people use silly language like this to incite us.
I definitely agree that dwarves need some kind of boost.
My 52+ BH has been using D grade weapons and armor since level 20, not for a lack of money but for the fact that updating my equipment doesn't really improve my ability to make money. Soloing has always been inefficient, if I'm spoiling mobs I can't even use my one attack skill since the mp cost is so high.
As for getting parties, they don't really care if I'm contributing any damage. As long as I'm spoiling items for them and pretending that I'm doing damage with my Tarbar they seem pretty content. I didn't really plan on PvPing with my BH, but it would be nice to be able to solo effeciently and not just be a source of extra items for anyone who feels like dragging me along.
I hardly ever set up a craft shop but when I do I set my prices lower than those around me so that I will make money. Face it I am getting adena while afk. I don't have to do anything at the computer.
At 1a price I am still making a profit on crafting. If you want the prices on your server to drop start charging less to get things done.
This is the exact type of attitude that hurts WSs like me who spend most of their time in town crafting. We have tried to set reasonable prices on crafts and have been reasonably successful doing exactly that. But then you have some hot shot, who comes in and thinks wow they're charging 25a for a level 1 craft, I can make money by charging 10a. I'm sorry regardless of what you think that's not true. Sure you're AFK, you're in shop so what do you care, but the fact is that at 10a it costs you 2.5 times the MP it costs me to craft that item. Luckily most players are pretty smart and charge reasonably and make a descent living and provide a great service.
There are real WSs out there, whose only income is sitting in town craft shops. If you think you're making adena at 1a per craft? You missed the boat somewhere. You're MP is gone in seconds and you've gotten 250 adena, while someone who charges a reasonable amount can have made 25 times that.
There are real WSs out there, whose only income is sitting in town craft shops. If you think you're making adena at 1a per craft? You missed the boat somewhere. You're MP is gone in seconds and you've gotten 250 adena, while someone who charges a reasonable amount can have made 25 times that.
thats gonna sound like greed to most non-ws's
hope some of you can see how reasonable that really is
Then Ramadear, please enlighten all of us lowly humans as to what the truth about dwarves are.
We certainly know they aren't DD, so thats their contribution to the group.
They are neither healers nor tanks. So what is left for them to be? What else can they contribute to the group? And they certainly must contribute something, for they are equally sharing in all of the experience, adena, and normal drops the group is earning with a disequal contribution if they are neither filling one of the above roles nor sharing their spoils.
Is it all right for a healer to go, "Sorry guys, but the heals are all for me" or a prophet to go, "Sorry guys but the buffs are all for me"?
LOL its been awhile since I read this thread. Way before I got my 2h blunt :P Again I will point out that this statement and train of thought is severly flawed rofl. My lvl 77 FS has 1756 patk fully buffed with Dragon Hunter ax. If thats not contributing then I don't know what is lol.
Wow, you are really becoming a jerk and I imagine dwarves isnt the only thing people like you complain about, sounds like you have one of those 'poor me' attitudes.
Who are you to judge people like this ? i have something to say about a class that i actually play as a main (and not stay <40 for whatever reason). You can disagree, but speaking like this contributes nothing to the thread... and is a direct personnal attack.
Try a personnal attack again and you'll be dealing with the moderators... (i don't have the "poor me" attitude, i can answer attacks... try me... i'd gladly show you..)
It's not ncsofts fault that people sell their items for too cheap and some sell it for too high.
who cares ? did someone complain about this ? i don't think so...
You dont gain xp while playing the market, you dont enjoy any game content, you dont party with people etc.
again.. who cares ? you can't judge the way people have fun with the game. What makes you think it's better to play for levels ? or only pvp ? or only party ?
I may talk and meet more people playing the market in giran than a level 75 nuker with his own buffbot have met in his whole L2 gaming advendure...
Everything depends on the aim you have in the game.
Some want to be high level
Some want to meet players and talk a lot and find friends they don't have IRL,
Others want to get rich... or kill special raid bosses, or siege and win a castle.
ETC...
you can't judge the reason why people play the game and say it's wrong (unless they break the EULA).
Most of the players who play dwarves as a main may do so because they read on this website that they are the race that can earn the most money... this is obviously wrong... This is what we're saying here. they can make money, but it's not the BEST way of making money... so what's the point playing this class since it's its best side ? ANY other class would be better for any other reason of playing... and since any other class is allready better for *really* making money (not some stupid millions people seem to be proud of..., talking about x100millions here ok !), the dwarves are screwed.
It's not a complaint, it's FACTS, and we need to state them since NCSoft don't seem to see.... People who think NCSoft know it and don't care are indeed the one who wine.
Dwarves cannot be upgraded just because people can play the market. Get more than a few dozen people trying to play the market everyday and you are going to find that it is not a profitable solution.
have to disagree here:
yes, dwarves HAVE to be upgraded JUST because anyone can make more money than a dwarf timewise without any skill (be it playing the market or ebay or whatever). Money is no more an issue for dwarves compared to other classes.
And, btw, there are allready much more than 12 people playing the market everyday...
Who am I to judge someone like this? I was trying to have a civil conversation and you kept insulting everything about my posts and myself personally so what am I supposed to do?
Anyway, moving on.
If you think that NCSoft is going to make a change to dwarves to make up for the market being completely hosed due to ebay then thats ncsoft admitting that they aren't doing anything about it and are willing to accept it as part of the game thus breaking theeir own EULA so its safe to say nothing will happen in this area.
If dwarves do get a boost, the only area could be pvp or maybe pve. I saw the c5 video and noticed some dwarf stuff but the release notes dont seem to have anything about it. If dwarves get any boost outside of pvp I imagine that the bots will be the only real ones benefitting from it and it will just end up making things worse.
I notice you and others have some pvp stuff you want to add and I would be totally up for at least trying some of this stuff out or seeing what NC wants to propose. You could argue its a broken class simply due to the extrenal factors playing on the game and I couldnt really argue..but there just isnt much of a way to fix it.
craft shop prices, like the party loot, is a social problem. people like to provide low prices on crafting so that other people will like them or they will get recs or something. the price of craft shops should actually be slightly Higher than the town BS, since you dont have to have the recipie for each item made. problem is that people either feel bad charging so much or trying to undercut the person next to them way too much. 1 adena crafts should be reserved for clannies, if everyone actually charged people to use their service then you might be able to make money from it.
The social problem is all those dwarves that set exhorbitant prices for their craft shops if you ask me. Yes it can be hard to get a certain recipe and hard to find stuff should cost more to craft. But the shot recipes and the material recipes are'nt that difficult to come by and people charging 50k for one DMP craft are still living in the past where that recipe was impossible to get. I had my DMP rec within 2 days of C4 hitting the live servers andd saw lots of them for sale for over a mil each. (hint if you have 5 DMP recipes yourself and so does every other shop in Giran...well it's not worth a mil in adena folks)
I hardly ever set up a craft shop but when I do I set my prices lower than those around me so that I will make money. Face it I am getting adena while afk. I don't have to do anything at the computer.
At 1a price I am still making a profit on crafting. If you want the prices on your server to drop start charging less to get things done.
lol, yes you're still making a prophet but not anything useful if that ws is your primary source of income and you dont have a clan lavishing you with adena and mats to craft for them. I dont bother setting up private creation, there is no money for it outside of A/S grade really. SS creation can be ok but typically I have to use a spoiler to find low c grade stuff to crush and craft...there are a lot of fun creative ways to take advantage of the class but they are all quite time consuming.
edit: omg you know you play way too much l2 when you start spelling 'profit' as 'prophet'
Then Ramadear, please enlighten all of us lowly humans as to what the truth about dwarves are.
We certainly know they aren't DD, so thats their contribution to the group.
They are neither healers nor tanks. So what is left for them to be? What else can they contribute to the group? And they certainly must contribute something, for they are equally sharing in all of the experience, adena, and normal drops the group is earning with a disequal contribution if they are neither filling one of the above roles nor sharing their spoils.
Is it all right for a healer to go, "Sorry guys, but the heals are all for me" or a prophet to go, "Sorry guys but the buffs are all for me"?
This is the exact kind of dwarf hatred that really gets under my skin, because what you are saying is that I a Warsmith can contribute nothing to the group, and therefore do not deserve an invite. I'm not a DD, a healer, a nuker, so therefore, you don't need to group me because I offer you nothing. Wow so much for comraderie, so much for playing with people because you like to group with different people.
Your logic is flawed, healers play a class where they are designed to heal. I feel sorry for Prophets too, because now most are boxed and are only in group when there is an empty spot, because otherwise they don't "add" anything to the group for 20 minutes.
Should BH's share their spoils? That's up to the BH and how they want to play that. But I want to be in parties that want me for my personality and not because I "offer" the party some nifty skill, because I sure as heck DON'T HAVE ANY NIFTY PARTY SKILLS. I don't have them. So all you dwarf haters out there can just leave our class alone, because some of us still like to play the class we chose back in Prelude/Open Beta, even with all of the racism these servers are froth with.
*hugs Dwarves everywhere*
WS's have rooms in groups just depend what groups they are. WS's will succeed in the following areas
1. Clan wants to craft, of course they are going to take that WS
2. Pole groups, if you are good with teh ol' polearm you will be a very popular lil dwarf.
It's just like warcryers dont have anything outside of polerarm groups but they cant craft anything. At least a dwarf can craft and have polearm options eh?
It's just like warcryers dont have anything outside of polerarm groups but they cant craft anything. At least a dwarf can craft and have polearm options eh?
I think I missed that memo. How do you figure again?
Woah woah I meant Warlords, pardon me...with three classes starting with the word 'War' I start getting confused :*(
Warcryers can be in pole groups too. I powerleveled my toons with it, and my friends toons too. Root, Accuracy, and slow seals draw all the aggro onto you, while the small dwarves just whack at the mobs :D. It works really well...
Woah woah I meant Warlords, pardon me...with three classes starting with the word 'War' I start getting confused :*(
Warcryers can be in pole groups too. I powerleveled my toons with it, and my friends toons too. Root, Accuracy, and slow seals draw all the aggro onto you, while the small dwarves just whack at the mobs :D. It works really well...
My whole point was both dwarves get polearm masteries and a warlords only use is polearm but at least dwarves get to craft too.
My whole point was both dwarves get polearm masteries and a warlords only use is polearm but at least dwarves get to craft too.
Hmm I can craft? Sure Lv 1 items, so not sure what your talking about here, You can easely create an lv 10 dwarf and craft as good as least of half the dwarves out there.
On other hand warlords sure need some boost thats not what I'm talking about but not sure I understand at all what your trying to say, also PS warlord got a ton of more skills then BH have beside teh 'pole mastery'
and don't forget warlords can craft from craft shops too...
the craft skills are shared with other players, whenever you need to craft you can do it as good as a WS, but just for less money (not even sure about that since recipes cost so much... and your personnal MP pool is far from enough to craft a weapon by yourself ina reasonnable time (and time is money... so...))
On the other hand, dwarves can't get access to the others's pve/pvp skills when they need them... (95% of their play time).
Though i'll agree that Warlord need a serious boost too... the dwarves have a lot less pve/pvp skills than them, so yes, they are really worse in any way you take it.
This is the exact type of attitude that hurts WSs like me who spend most of their time in town crafting. We have tried to set reasonable prices on crafts and have been reasonably successful doing exactly that. But then you have some hot shot, who comes in and thinks wow they're charging 25a for a level 1 craft, I can make money by charging 10a. I'm sorry regardless of what you think that's not true. Sure you're AFK, you're in shop so what do you care, but the fact is that at 10a it costs you 2.5 times the MP it costs me to craft that item. Luckily most players are pretty smart and charge reasonably and make a descent living and provide a great service.
There are real WSs out there, whose only income is sitting in town craft shops. If you think you're making adena at 1a per craft? You missed the boat somewhere. You're MP is gone in seconds and you've gotten 250 adena, while someone who charges a reasonable amount can have made 25 times that.
Oh well.
Sorry but in my opinion any WS that spends the majority of their time in AFK craft shops doesn't count as a played WS. If sitting in town is your only income as a WS thats an alt not your main.
My WS is my main I party with clan mates, I craft all the gear for my clan, I occasionally set up a craft shop for a little extra adena. Usually when I craft something for anyone outside of clan though it's because they have heard I craft at a fair price and pm me or send me an in game email. Sitting in town afk 24/7 is not playing a dwarf, it's leeching adena from the general population.
lol, yes you're still making a prophet but not anything useful if that ws is your primary source of income and you dont have a clan lavishing you with adena and mats to craft for them.
Well I wouldn't say they lavish me with adena, but I get all the base mats from everyone in the entire clan. The clan BH hangs onto any recipes or key materials (blades, fabrics, etc) that I am not in the process of crafting for someone currently. We use manor, we use the quests for materials, we craft nearly 100% of the gear that our members use. On occasion we have to buy gear but usually when we can't get a recipe for it.
As surely as L2 is a PvP oriented game it is also a team play one. Anyone just looking to get as rich as possible isn't getting everything they could out of it. Of course if that's how they enjoy themselves playing L2 well...more power to them.
Just don't try and tell me you play a warsmith if all you do with that char is sit afk in a craft shop.
Warlords get thunderstorm, among other things that dwarves do not get. (WL's also have more HP)
I can definitely agree that WL's and Dwarves are pretty much in the same boat when it comes to PvP.. unless it's a siege, then give me a few warlords to hang by the flags or behind the gates any day. Nothing stops a rush like a couple thunderstorms followed up by some wrath...
Warlords get thunderstorm, among other things that dwarves do not get. (WL's also have more HP)
I can definitely agree that WL's and Dwarves are pretty much in the same boat when it comes to PvP.. unless it's a siege, then give me a few warlords to hang by the flags or behind the gates any day. Nothing stops a rush like a couple thunderstorms followed up by some wrath...
True but ws' get big boom/siege golem so they have their place and time. I am just saying there are plenty of characters out there that seem limited but people still play them...and the specific example I stated was to show that there are classes that have limited use but they are still useful and dwarves get to craft/spoil on top of it all.
and don't forget warlords can craft from craft shops too...
the craft skills are shared with other players, whenever you need to craft you can do it as good as a WS, but just for less money (not even sure about that since recipes cost so much... and your personnal MP pool is far from enough to craft a weapon by yourself ina reasonnable time (and time is money... so...))
On the other hand, dwarves can't get access to the others's pve/pvp skills when they need them... (95% of their play time).
Though i'll agree that Warlord need a serious boost too... the dwarves have a lot less pve/pvp skills than them, so yes, they are really worse in any way you take it.
Yes, the way NC has the game made is that it balances very nicely without botting. I wouldnt be hearing this song and dance if there were craft shops of only legit players. This goes back to my statement about NC Soft making game balances and changes that force them to admit botting is totally out of hand and that they are willing to accept it and change the game to function around it which I doubt would happen.
Take away craft shops, fine by me, most good alliances have a few kind dwarves that are the clan crafters.
Sorry but in my opinion any WS that spends the majority of their time in AFK craft shops doesn't count as a played WS. If sitting in town is your only income as a WS thats an alt not your main.
My WS is my main I party with clan mates, I craft all the gear for my clan, I occasionally set up a craft shop for a little extra adena. Usually when I craft something for anyone outside of clan though it's because they have heard I craft at a fair price and pm me or send me an in game email. Sitting in town afk 24/7 is not playing a dwarf, it's leeching adena from the general population.
I can only be sorry that that is your opinion. 99% of Gustin will confirm that I am a played WS, I don't have another alt that I main. The reason for my time in town is 2-fold. A work/school combination that adds up to over 60 hours of non-play time a week, and because I like helping people out.
I see sitting in craft shops as helpful to others. Most know that if I'm at the keyboard, they can PM or email me and request that an item be setup. I only get to level about 2 hours a night, on weekdays, if I'm lucky, and slightly more time than that on the weekends.
I'm sorry you see craft shops as leaching. I see them as providing a valuable service, I see myself as in the customer service business. In fact many on Gustin will testify that after using me for several times and developing a relationship I will adjust my price down to 1A if I'm at the keyboard, this I do for friends, and thus my craft shop is very successful, plus it is the ONLY source of L2 income that I have.
I'm sorry you're so shallow as to see how a dwarf could be played differently than you play yours based on a different environment. I wish you the best of luck in your dwarf endeavors.
I can only be sorry that that is your opinion. 99% of Gustin will confirm that I am a played WS, I don't have another alt that I main. The reason for my time in town is 2-fold. A work/school combination that adds up to over 60 hours of non-play time a week, and because I like helping people out.
I see sitting in craft shops as helpful to others. Most know that if I'm at the keyboard, they can PM or email me and request that an item be setup. I only get to level about 2 hours a night, on weekdays, if I'm lucky, and slightly more time than that on the weekends.
I'm sorry you see craft shops as leaching. I see them as providing a valuable service, I see myself as in the customer service business. In fact many on Gustin will testify that after using me for several times and developing a relationship I will adjust my price down to 1A if I'm at the keyboard, this I do for friends, and thus my craft shop is very successful, plus it is the ONLY source of L2 income that I have.
I'm sorry you're so shallow as to see how a dwarf could be played differently than you play yours based on a different environment. I wish you the best of luck in your dwarf endeavors.
I didn't say that craft shops are leeching, I said doing nothing but being a craft shop is leeching. You start off attacking me about 1a crafting then state here that you set up 1a for people. And talk about people being shallow for playing dwarves differantly how about all of the people who say my +con build is the wrong way to go. Suits my playstyle just fine.
If you actually regularly spend time leveling, be it 1-2 hours a day whatever then yeah I would say you are a played WS. Read what I said carefully, I am saying the leechers are those that do nothing but sit in town. As for the only source of income in L2? Well I will say I can average 100k adena for a few hours of Giran sitting, or I can get a lot more than that by getting out and grinding for xp. Usually takes 1/4 of the time grinding to make what I could sitting in town.
I attacked the premise that crafting for 1a is somehow more legitimate than having a regularly and nominaly based craft shop. The premise that 1a crafts is the moral "high ground" is ludicrous. Secondarily I attacked the claim that because I spend 90% of my time in town that I am therefore not a played WS. You and I are close in level, and my bet is that you haven't been playing since Prelude, or you'd already be up into the 70s. I've been playing since Prelude and have been playing catchup the entire time due to my time constraints.
I'm not going to attack your +CON -STR situation. I honestly believe that you play a WS different than most everyone else does. You're the first I've known to go +CON. I've only got a +4 STR -4 CON, but have been considering a +DEX tat as well. My significant other is a BH at the same level with no tats, and she doesn't have 3k more HP than I do, she has about 800 more HP than I have, so I'm not sure that a +4 CON Tat would land 3k HP, but that would remain to be seen.
I can appreciate people who chose to play the same class that I play differently. Good for you for trying something new. I apologize if you took my 1a craft attack personally. I find it highly frustrating that people some how assume a moral high ground because they craft that way to bring prices down, and then tell me that I leech XP of real players. You can see how the combined statements would set me off.
I don't use the Golem in mass pvp, because I find him more cumbersome than useful. Just me. I use a bow in mass pvp, because normally I can't get in range with duals or with the AoBA. Unfortunately like BigHands, as a clan leader, I am a #1 target on the siege field, so both of us have different pvp experiences than most other dwarves do. Plunder, my significant other, normally dies about 1/3 the times that I do at a siege, so I have some frustrations with dwarf pvp skills as well.
Best of luck to you in that setup. I'm glad it works for you.
Well with the tat and the doom heavy my con is +7 total and str -7 total, add the HP bonus of doom heavy and yeah, lots of HP. I have more HP than my clan's lvl 65 BH. Being a clan leader I can see that you would get targeted first, and with that no amount of extra HP is gonna help I would imagine.
I went heavy con because my experiences thus far in seiges was getting one shotted. Granted I was in my 40's and wearing Dwarven Chain mail but getting taken out after taking a single step towards the enemy really sucks. I have seen plenty of dwarves that go with a +con build. However for some reason they hardly ever post on forums. I did run into a WS wearing Doom light the other day and weilding Dual swords who loved that set up. Used her golem most of the time as well and mowed through mobs quite quickly. After asking I found she had +5str +4 dex and -9con for tats. With Doom light that's a total of -11 con, I didn't ask what her HP was, but I did notice she got stunned a lot.
Honestly I have thought several times about going with a light armor setup just for the sheer "huh? what's that dwarf doing?" factor.
Level 75+ mobs should be spoiling high end craft materials including Mithril Alloy, Synthesis Cokes, Durable Metal Plates, and Varnish of Purity instead of weapon/armor/jewel parts.
High level mobs do spoil mats, but not enough really. Want to drop prices to get stuff done, make animal bones drop and spoil from everything in great quantities.
I am perfectly fine with not getting a BH's spoil. Making the BH share that one unique skill they have is unfair if you ask me. Maybe make it so if the spoil goes to another party member the BH gets extra adena automatically. Heck I don't know but I will never ask a BH to share spoils.
As OP, I kindly ask you to stop arguing if a Dwarf should spoil share or not. If you want to argue about that, get yourself an own thread.
I am not talking about spoil sharing. I am talking about changing the Dwarves with C5.
And the skills that are currently on the list for the dwarves to get just do not meet my favour, as I do not see them usefull for blunt dwarves, who cannot spend their mana on toggle skills.
You now either can tell me to shut up and live with it, suggest some skill or other changes for a dwarf, or agree with me.
If you cannot do any of that, get the heck out of this thread. I am tired of the old "dwarves do not contribute to the group" argument. And I mean both the pro and the con side of that argument.
Owner Kitten
quoted not for truth, but for thread focus. the focus is on PvP for dwarves, not how much money they make. here are some suggestions that have been made:
other ideas: 2handed blunt mastery, AOE earth attack, stun-on-crits for blunts, allow spoil to work in PvP, "duct tape" repair skill that heal the WS's golem. did i miss any?
"duct tape" repair skill that heal the WS's golem.
Back in Prelude there were items called Golem Parts, or something like that which would heal WS golems. No idea why they took them out. But even back then our clan WS said they were useless, so maybe thats why. :p
"duct tape" repair skill that heal the WS's golem.
Back in Prelude there were items called Golem Parts, or something like that which would heal WS golems. No idea why they took them out. But even back then our clan WS said they were useless, so maybe thats why. :p
"Mechanic Golem Spare Parts" items are sometimes found in Cargo Boxes from Hunt of the Black Lion quest.
I thought that they have no actual use so i was selling them to shops.
If they work like a healing potion on the golem, it won't be of much help. There was too little of these items recieved, and since they are available from newbie quest, they'd hardly be abundant.
If it isn't consumed upon use (i.e. only mp are spent), then it would be like a must-have artifact for WSs, and a bit of a boost still. Although i'm still inclined they are just unusable.
Level 75+ mobs should be spoiling high end craft materials including Mithril Alloy, Synthesis Cokes, Durable Metal Plates, and Varnish of Purity instead of weapon/armor/jewel parts.
High level mobs do spoil mats, but not enough really. Want to drop prices to get stuff done, make animal bones drop and spoil from everything in great quantities.
I am perfectly fine with not getting a BH's spoil. Making the BH share that one unique skill they have is unfair if you ask me. Maybe make it so if the spoil goes to another party member the BH gets extra adena automatically. Heck I don't know but I will never ask a BH to share spoils.
Mats rarely spoil at high level....only metallic fiber, enria, asofe and maybe thons. I think c2 in terms of spoils and drops was the most balanced chronicle. When c3 hit spoils and drops got nerfed big time.
Mats rarely spoil at high level....only metallic fiber, enria, asofe and maybe thons. I think c2 in terms of spoils and drops was the most balanced chronicle. When c3 hit spoils and drops got nerfed big time.
Well the BH in my clan can spoil any mat I have requested of her, some of the mobs under GC that are in the 70's spoil ori ore and such. And as she put it any BH regardless of how high they have gotten can still spoil lvl 60 mobs. She did mention that perhaps not everyone is aware of that rule.
Well the BH in my clan can spoil any mat I have requested of her, some of the mobs under GC that are in the 70's spoil ori ore and such. And as she put it any BH regardless of how high they have gotten can still spoil lvl 60 mobs. She did mention that perhaps not everyone is aware of that rule.
Do you play a BH? Guess not, you know the very same rules about drops is true about spoils to, the char who spoil the mob need to be top 5 lv's abow it to not get penelised, then after every level the % chans get lowered, exactly as drops.
Not only that, who want to hit blue mobs? Not me.
So I for one is not close to sure what 'rule' your talking about.
Anyhow the most important mats in the game, Animal Bone, Coal, Iron ore, Varnish, and so on all ends at lv 60 mobs.
Sure mobs spoils different mats at 60+ But did you know, this things is extreamly low priced, like Mithrill ore, i nfact just an night at TOI I can get 200-300 of em to the entire party, one craft is like what? 200-300 ? so 9 days hunting there and viola an entire 9 man party got enought of em for crafting all what htey need.
On other hand bones? A grade? hmmm for same armor sets we talk far beyoind 20k bones.
This is also the very same reason that some servers got over 2k in bone prices right now like Lionna, I can't craft anything right now, PLUS I CAN*T EVEN SPOIL THE BONES I NEED!
Well the BH in my clan can spoil any mat I have requested of her, some of the mobs under GC that are in the 70's spoil ori ore and such. And as she put it any BH regardless of how high they have gotten can still spoil lvl 60 mobs. She did mention that perhaps not everyone is aware of that rule.
Do you play a BH? Guess not, you know the very same rules about drops is true about spoils to, the char who spoil the mob need to be top 5 lv's abow it to not get penelised, then after every level the % chans get lowered, exactly as drops.
Not only that, who want to hit blue mobs? Not me.
So I for one is not close to sure what 'rule' your talking about.
Anyhow the most important mats in the game, Animal Bone, Coal, Iron ore, Varnish, and so on all ends at lv 60 mobs.
Sure mobs spoils different mats at 60+ But did you know, this things is extreamly low priced, like Mithrill ore, i nfact just an night at TOI I can get 200-300 of em to the entire party, one craft is like what? 200-300 ? so 9 days hunting there and viola an entire 9 man party got enought of em for crafting all what htey need.
On other hand bones? A grade? hmmm for same armor sets we talk far beyoind 20k bones.
This is also the very same reason that some servers got over 2k in bone prices right now like Lionna, I can't craft anything right now, PLUS I CAN*T EVEN SPOIL THE BONES I NEED!
No I don't play a BH, I said that was what I was told by the BH in my clan. Seeing as how she has been on Erica since the day it came online I am inclined to believe her.
Lilim priest lvl 60 spoil animal bones, why don't you try and see if she is right? Or would you rather whine about how gimp your class is here than try? Even if you don't get a lot of xp you could easily get rich by reselling the bones if she is right.
Oh and I know how many bones it takes to craft stuff, I'm a crafter remember. Right now I need over 50k animal bones for all my clans needs. That's down from 80k thanks to the BH in my clan and others chipping in.
Lilim priest lvl 60 spoil animal bones, why don't you try and see if she is right? Or would you rather whine about how gimp your class is here than try? Even if you don't get a lot of xp you could easily get rich by reselling the bones if she is right.
what's the highest lvl someone hunt those mobs? 68? After that mobs turn deep blue. How fast will a solo dwarf kill 4x mobs? And who will take a dwarf 5-7 lvls higher to an XP party? Or who will hunt light blue mobs, but a clan party going to that spoil?..
Lilim priest lvl 60 spoil animal bones, why don't you try and see if she is right? Or would you rather whine about how gimp your class is here than try? Even if you don't get a lot of xp you could easily get rich by reselling the bones if she is right.
what's the highest lvl someone hunt those mobs? 68? After that mobs turn deep blue. How fast will a solo dwarf kill 4x mobs? And who will take a dwarf 5-7 lvls higher to an XP party? Or who will hunt light blue mobs, but a clan party going to that spoil?..
And here is the true problem with those playing the NA servers, they don't understand teamwork and sacrifice.
I'm to high lv to spoil lv 60 mobs, thats final, they are dark blue to me, and I won't tutch them.
And sure teamwork is needed, problem is, after a while all get higher lv, right now we got way to high lv chars to actually deal with it, we can't get the mats by spoil, our bh's is all just nearly 70, and we got 4.
i got 1600 animal bones from manor today on bartz the busiest of servers. There are chances to get up to 3600 animal bones per day via manor...bots still suck but that doesnt mean that there arent plenty of ways to win.
I'm to high lv to spoil lv 60 mobs, thats final, they are dark blue to me, and I won't tutch them.
And sure teamwork is needed, problem is, after a while all get higher lv, right now we got way to high lv chars to actually deal with it, we can't get the mats by spoil, our bh's is all just nearly 70, and we got 4.
Well as I said my friend who is a high lvl BH says that no matter how high you get you will still be able to spoil lvl 60 mobs. She does it but obviously you would rather whine that NCsoft fix it instead of trying to work with the game. I would tell you about the lvl 32 quest you can do to get bones, cbp or VoP, but you obviously wouldn't be interested in doing that either. Maybe I should mention we earned 63mil worth of varnish of purity working that quest within a couple days. And we only worked it a few hours each day. And not a one of us was under lvl 59. Have fun crying about not being able to craft anything, we will be busy crafting what we need.
Oh wait I am a lowly lvl 60, what could I possibly know about the game.
Duroon you don't seem to get it do you? The lv 60 mobs is dark blue for me, you get this right? wich meens the mob is 9 levels below me.
When a mob is more then 5 levels below you drop/spoil get penelised heavely, at the point it's dark blue it's like 10% chans of what it was befor. Sure you 'CAN' spoil, but it's not even clsoe to worth the effort.
And sure you can still be 65 and spoil the lv 60 mobs just flawless but that change so fast you hitt 66 and abow, get it.
Duroon you don't seem to get it do you? The lv 60 mobs is dark blue for me, you get this right? wich meens the mob is 9 levels below me.
When a mob is more then 5 levels below you drop/spoil get penelised heavely, at the point it's dark blue it's like 10% chans of what it was befor. Sure you 'CAN' spoil, but it's not even clsoe to worth the effort.
And sure you can still be 65 and spoil the lv 60 mobs just flawless but that change so fast you hitt 66 and abow, get it.
Yes and you don't get that there are people who say you can still spoil those lvl 60's no matter how high lvl you get and are too stubborn to even try.
Unless your willing to give it a try you will never know will you. And unless you are willing to try anything available to you why should anyone bother trying to help you out by fixing the system.
Yes and you don't get that there are people who say you can still spoil those lvl 60's no matter how high lvl you get and are too stubborn to even try.
Unless your willing to give it a try you will never know will you. And unless you are willing to try anything available to you why should anyone bother trying to help you out by fixing the system.
Well, I tryed spoiling deep blue mobs, seems same penalty as on drop for them. Well, my spoiler isnt 60+ yet, so I only tryed on lower lvl mobs. Spoil lands, but you get nurfed spoils.
I will say this again, according to my friend the rule is supposed to be that no matter how high level your BH or FS gets you will always be able to spoil lvl 60 mobs. Not that a low level BH can spoil even lower mobs. If no high lvl BH or FS is willing to test this then you will never know if it's true.
I will say this again, according to my friend the rule is supposed to be that no matter how high level your BH or FS gets you will always be able to spoil lvl 60 mobs. Not that a low level BH can spoil even lower mobs. If no high lvl BH or FS is willing to test this then you will never know if it's true.
I will say this again, according to my friend the rule is supposed to be that no matter how high level your BH or FS gets you will always be able to spoil lvl 60 mobs. Not that a low level BH can spoil even lower mobs. If no high lvl BH or FS is willing to test this then you will never know if it's true.
it's NOT true...
you can be LUCKY and still get some random sweeps, but it's nowhere near what you used to get when the mob was still green.
I will say this again, according to my friend the rule is supposed to be that no matter how high level your BH or FS gets you will always be able to spoil lvl 60 mobs. Not that a low level BH can spoil even lower mobs. If no high lvl BH or FS is willing to test this then you will never know if it's true.
How about you go out there and 'TRY IT YOURSELF'
Ben saying it many times, and I geuss I say it again, YOU CAN'T you get an penelty so fast the mob get blue to you, the very same penelty drops have.
Only difference here is, spoil is calculated from the lv of the one spoiled it, drops is the one who delt most damage. But still got an lv 70 BH you will very rarrly spoil lv 60 mobs.
And since you ben on it so much, go out and try it, I know it by fact.
I will say this again, according to my friend the rule is supposed to be that no matter how high level your BH or FS gets you will always be able to spoil lvl 60 mobs. Not that a low level BH can spoil even lower mobs. If no high lvl BH or FS is willing to test this then you will never know if it's true.
Wow. You're giving some very misleading advice to your fellow dwarves.
First. Tats - Only a fool nerfs his kill rate (str) in order to give himself even more HP (con). The reason why - The faster you kill, the more xp you get. 60 or 80 points of Patk is going to get you way more mobs killed per hour than another 1k of HP, hell even 4k of HP. Especially taking into consideration that more HP will let you hunt for longer without a break, but is going to require much longer breaks to regen. The exception would be hitting the lvl cap. I may change my build to +Con when I hit the lvl cap, since I won't need XP anymore, and the HP is nice for PvP.
Second - Spoiling Blue mobs. I'm a BH, in fact, I'm a 7x BH. I've been playing the class for over 18 months, so I think I'm qualified to speak on this topic. The spoil rate goes in accordance with the drop rate. ie. If the mob is 7 lvls below you, the drop rate is approx 30% of normal, same with the spoil rate. For every level beyond that, it is reduced more and more. Sure, my spoil will land about 98% on lvl 60 mobs, but they simply do not turn blue very often.
Lastly. Mats spoiled. Some base mats (metal fiber, SoP, MH, ML's) are very common above about lvl 60-65. The really important base mats (Bones, CBP, Steel, Varnish) stop spoiling somewhere in the upper 40's/low 50's. This is the reason why certain mats are extremely expensive, and others are cheaper than the should be.
If you don't believe me, hop on over to stratics, and check the spoil table for the base mats.
Only a fool nerfs his kill rate (str) in order to give himself even more HP (con). The reason why - The faster you kill, the more xp you get. 60 or 80 points of Patk is going to get you way more mobs killed per hour than another 1k of HP
I feel it is false to say all -str tats are foolish. You also have to consider the roll you normally play in parties.
If you are considering for the support/DD role then its a good statement :)
Well, as the spoil rates get nerfed, how about a spoiling pet? DA's get panthers, BH's get spoil pets (I vote something bizarre for the novelty value). The pet autospoils when in range, and can spoil lower level mobs, meaning that while the higher BH completes the kill and activates the spoil, it's the pet who gets the proper level of spoil, negating any level penalty. (open to modifications)
Only a fool nerfs his kill rate (str) in order to give himself even more HP (con). The reason why - The faster you kill, the more xp you get. 60 or 80 points of Patk is going to get you way more mobs killed per hour than another 1k of HP
I feel it is false to say all -str tats are foolish. You also have to consider the roll you normally play in parties.
If you are considering for the support/DD role then its a good statement :)
Dwarves are DDs without spike dmg skills when you get a 2h blunt. 1h blunt gimps them so much.....so yea +str the way to go.
Lastly. Mats spoiled. Some base mats (metal fiber, SoP, MH, ML's) are very common above about lvl 60-65. The really important base mats (Bones, CBP, Steel, Varnish) stop spoiling somewhere in the upper 40's/low 50's. This is the reason why certain mats are extremely expensive, and others are cheaper than the should be.
If you don't believe me, hop on over to stratics, and check the spoil table for the base mats.
Umm u sure ? Well steel: grave predator lvl 59 or fallen orc lvl 55. Did not test forbidden path invader yet.
Bones: you can get in witch catacomb from lillim priest lvl 60.
Varnish: soul of ruins lvl 54 or harit lizard shaman 54 is good or harder the beast seer (group mob lvl 59 ).
If its worth the efford you must decide your own but you can still spoil that stuff at lvl 64 at a very good rate.
Lastly. Mats spoiled. Some base mats (metal fiber, SoP, MH, ML's) are very common above about lvl 60-65. The really important base mats (Bones, CBP, Steel, Varnish) stop spoiling somewhere in the upper 40's/low 50's. This is the reason why certain mats are extremely expensive, and others are cheaper than the should be.
If you don't believe me, hop on over to stratics, and check the spoil table for the base mats.
Umm u sure ? Well steel: grave predator lvl 59 or fallen orc lvl 55. Did not test forbidden path invader yet.
Bones: you can get in witch catacomb from lillim priest lvl 60.
Varnish: soul of ruins lvl 54 or harit lizard shaman 54 is good or harder the beast seer (group mob lvl 59 ).
If its worth the efford you must decide your own but you can still spoil that stuff at lvl 64 at a very good rate.
5x is lower lvl spoils...when you get to mid 6x+ the only keymats that spoils at high lvls are the few Bighands mentioned.
Lastly. Mats spoiled. Some base mats (metal fiber, SoP, MH, ML's) are very common above about lvl 60-65. The really important base mats (Bones, CBP, Steel, Varnish) stop spoiling somewhere in the upper 40's/low 50's. This is the reason why certain mats are extremely expensive, and others are cheaper than the should be.
If you don't believe me, hop on over to stratics, and check the spoil table for the base mats.
Umm u sure ? Well steel: grave predator lvl 59 or fallen orc lvl 55. Did not test forbidden path invader yet.
Bones: you can get in witch catacomb from lillim priest lvl 60.
Varnish: soul of ruins lvl 54 or harit lizard shaman 54 is good or harder the beast seer (group mob lvl 59 ).
If its worth the efford you must decide your own but you can still spoil that stuff at lvl 64 at a very good rate.
5x is lower lvl spoils...when you get to mid 6x+ the only keymats that spoils at high lvls are the few Bighands mentioned.
He said you can spoil bones varnish steel only at the 47-52 witch is not true you can spoil that stuff still at 63 while the mobs are still green or white.
Grave predator is lvl 59 for steel, bones lillim priest lvl 60 varnish from beast seer lvl 59.
Mid 60tys is what 65+ ? i think its 63-66.
So later sure wont disagree. Beside that i think its still stupid to spoil at 65+ low lvl stuff like varnish bones and steel. You should be able to spoil VoP, Mithril alloy, crafted leathers and RMP more but thats how the game is.
I will say this again, according to my friend the rule is supposed to be that no matter how high level your BH or FS gets you will always be able to spoil lvl 60 mobs. Not that a low level BH can spoil even lower mobs. If no high lvl BH or FS is willing to test this then you will never know if it's true.
How about you go out there and 'TRY IT YOURSELF'
Ben saying it many times, and I geuss I say it again, YOU CAN'T you get an penelty so fast the mob get blue to you, the very same penelty drops have.
Only difference here is, spoil is calculated from the lv of the one spoiled it, drops is the one who delt most damage. But still got an lv 70 BH you will very rarrly spoil lv 60 mobs.
And since you ben on it so much, go out and try it, I know it by fact.
I can't go and try it myself I am not a high level BH. You are and obviously to lazy to try something that may work.
I will say this again, according to my friend the rule is supposed to be that no matter how high level your BH or FS gets you will always be able to spoil lvl 60 mobs. Not that a low level BH can spoil even lower mobs. If no high lvl BH or FS is willing to test this then you will never know if it's true.
Wow. You're giving some very misleading advice to your fellow dwarves.
First. Tats - Only a fool nerfs his kill rate (str) in order to give himself even more HP (con). The reason why - The faster you kill, the more xp you get. 60 or 80 points of Patk is going to get you way more mobs killed per hour than another 1k of HP, hell even 4k of HP. Especially taking into consideration that more HP will let you hunt for longer without a break, but is going to require much longer breaks to regen. The exception would be hitting the lvl cap. I may change my build to +Con when I hit the lvl cap, since I won't need XP anymore, and the HP is nice for PvP.
Second - Spoiling Blue mobs. I'm a BH, in fact, I'm a 7x BH. I've been playing the class for over 18 months, so I think I'm qualified to speak on this topic. The spoil rate goes in accordance with the drop rate. ie. If the mob is 7 lvls below you, the drop rate is approx 30% of normal, same with the spoil rate. For every level beyond that, it is reduced more and more. Sure, my spoil will land about 98% on lvl 60 mobs, but they simply do not turn blue very often.
Lastly. Mats spoiled. Some base mats (metal fiber, SoP, MH, ML's) are very common above about lvl 60-65. The really important base mats (Bones, CBP, Steel, Varnish) stop spoiling somewhere in the upper 40's/low 50's. This is the reason why certain mats are extremely expensive, and others are cheaper than the should be.
If you don't believe me, hop on over to stratics, and check the spoil table for the base mats.
Which part of lvl 60 Lilim priest spoils bones could you not understand, and if you, since you are 7x, would go and try and spoil them for bones that would answer the question of whether my friend (who has been playing a BH since open beta thank you) is correct. But since all of the 7x FS and BH are too lazy or arrogant to just try I guess we will never know. All of the base mats, bones skins etc., have a lvl 60 mob that they can be spoiled from. The spoil tables on Stratics are mostly outdated, our BH maintains her own. The BH in my clan is at least open minded enough to try whatever necessary to aquire these items.
As to my build, it may be incorrect for the average dwarf but it works great for me.
And as for that lvl 32 quest, plenty of people have pm'ed me about it and I have let them know what it is. Including higher level BH's, so I won't say all of you are too lazy to do what it takes to get what you need.
I will say this again, according to my friend the rule is supposed to be that no matter how high level your BH or FS gets you will always be able to spoil lvl 60 mobs. Not that a low level BH can spoil even lower mobs. If no high lvl BH or FS is willing to test this then you will never know if it's true.
Wow. You're giving some very misleading advice to your fellow dwarves.
First. Tats - Only a fool nerfs his kill rate (str) in order to give himself even more HP (con). The reason why - The faster you kill, the more xp you get. 60 or 80 points of Patk is going to get you way more mobs killed per hour than another 1k of HP, hell even 4k of HP. Especially taking into consideration that more HP will let you hunt for longer without a break, but is going to require much longer breaks to regen. The exception would be hitting the lvl cap. I may change my build to +Con when I hit the lvl cap, since I won't need XP anymore, and the HP is nice for PvP.
Second - Spoiling Blue mobs. I'm a BH, in fact, I'm a 7x BH. I've been playing the class for over 18 months, so I think I'm qualified to speak on this topic. The spoil rate goes in accordance with the drop rate. ie. If the mob is 7 lvls below you, the drop rate is approx 30% of normal, same with the spoil rate. For every level beyond that, it is reduced more and more. Sure, my spoil will land about 98% on lvl 60 mobs, but they simply do not turn blue very often.
Lastly. Mats spoiled. Some base mats (metal fiber, SoP, MH, ML's) are very common above about lvl 60-65. The really important base mats (Bones, CBP, Steel, Varnish) stop spoiling somewhere in the upper 40's/low 50's. This is the reason why certain mats are extremely expensive, and others are cheaper than the should be.
If you don't believe me, hop on over to stratics, and check the spoil table for the base mats.
Which part of lvl 60 Lilim priest spoils bones could you not understand, and if you, since you are 7x, would go and try and spoil them for bones that would answer the question of whether my friend (who has been playing a BH since open beta thank you) is correct. But since all of the 7x FS and BH are too lazy or arrogant to just try I guess we will never know. All of the base mats, bones skins etc., have a lvl 60 mob that they can be spoiled from. The BH in my clan is at least open minded enough to try whatever necessary to aquire these items.
As to my build, it may be incorrect for the average dwarf but it works great for me.
And as for that lvl 32 quest, plenty of people have pm'ed me about it and I have let them know what it is. Including higher level BH's, so I won't say all of you are too lazy to do what it takes to get what you need.
Are you new?? High lvl BH spoiling low lvl mobs doesn't work. Why do you think farmer BHs delevel at town guards?
Lastly. Mats spoiled. Some base mats (metal fiber, SoP, MH, ML's) are very common above about lvl 60-65. The really important base mats (Bones, CBP, Steel, Varnish) stop spoiling somewhere in the upper 40's/low 50's. This is the reason why certain mats are extremely expensive, and others are cheaper than the should be.
If you don't believe me, hop on over to stratics, and check the spoil table for the base mats.
Umm u sure ? Well steel: grave predator lvl 59 or fallen orc lvl 55. Did not test forbidden path invader yet.
Bones: you can get in witch catacomb from lillim priest lvl 60.
Varnish: soul of ruins lvl 54 or harit lizard shaman 54 is good or harder the beast seer (group mob lvl 59 ).
If its worth the efford you must decide your own but you can still spoil that stuff at lvl 64 at a very good rate.
ROFL.
One mob spoiling each of those to 64 is not going to keep the economy going.
If I'm not mistaken, Forbidden Path Invaders are in the rift - so good luck farming those..
What you did point out though is that I was right. Base mats stop spoiling in the lower 50's.
There are a couple of exceptions, but since the rate you can kill the mob along with the rate of spoil for the mob determines how many mats you can get, I'm going to have to say that group mobs are typically not the way to go for farming mats.
If you want to try and farm Varnish off of Beast Lord groups, be my guest. lol
Are you new?? High lvl BH spoiling low lvl mobs doesn't work. Why do you think farmer BHs delevel at town guards?
Can you read??? I have said several times now, my friend who is a high lvl BH says that there is a rule where no matter how high lvl you get you can always spoil lvl 60 mobs. She has been playing a BH since open beta, please do me a favor and read the posts. Also do us all a favor if your high enough lvl, try it so you can either prove her wrong or right.
I will say this again, according to my friend the rule is supposed to be that no matter how high level your BH or FS gets you will always be able to spoil lvl 60 mobs. Not that a low level BH can spoil even lower mobs. If no high lvl BH or FS is willing to test this then you will never know if it's true.
Wow. You're giving some very misleading advice to your fellow dwarves.
First. Tats - Only a fool nerfs his kill rate (str) in order to give himself even more HP (con). The reason why - The faster you kill, the more xp you get. 60 or 80 points of Patk is going to get you way more mobs killed per hour than another 1k of HP, hell even 4k of HP. Especially taking into consideration that more HP will let you hunt for longer without a break, but is going to require much longer breaks to regen. The exception would be hitting the lvl cap. I may change my build to +Con when I hit the lvl cap, since I won't need XP anymore, and the HP is nice for PvP.
Second - Spoiling Blue mobs. I'm a BH, in fact, I'm a 7x BH. I've been playing the class for over 18 months, so I think I'm qualified to speak on this topic. The spoil rate goes in accordance with the drop rate. ie. If the mob is 7 lvls below you, the drop rate is approx 30% of normal, same with the spoil rate. For every level beyond that, it is reduced more and more. Sure, my spoil will land about 98% on lvl 60 mobs, but they simply do not turn blue very often.
Lastly. Mats spoiled. Some base mats (metal fiber, SoP, MH, ML's) are very common above about lvl 60-65. The really important base mats (Bones, CBP, Steel, Varnish) stop spoiling somewhere in the upper 40's/low 50's. This is the reason why certain mats are extremely expensive, and others are cheaper than the should be.
If you don't believe me, hop on over to stratics, and check the spoil table for the base mats.
Which part of lvl 60 Lilim priest spoils bones could you not understand, and if you, since you are 7x, would go and try and spoil them for bones that would answer the question of whether my friend (who has been playing a BH since open beta thank you) is correct. But since all of the 7x FS and BH are too lazy or arrogant to just try I guess we will never know. All of the base mats, bones skins etc., have a lvl 60 mob that they can be spoiled from. The spoil tables on Stratics are mostly outdated, our BH maintains her own. The BH in my clan is at least open minded enough to try whatever necessary to aquire these items.
As to my build, it may be incorrect for the average dwarf but it works great for me.
And as for that lvl 32 quest, plenty of people have pm'ed me about it and I have let them know what it is. Including higher level BH's, so I won't say all of you are too lazy to do what it takes to get what you need.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I've been playing my BH for 18 months. I am above lvl 70. I actually started playing in OB. Over the past 18 months and 70 levels, I've spoiled a huge variety of mobs, including hundreds of dark blue mobs. I don't need to go and record the spoils of 100 lvl 60 mobs to tell you that the spoil rate is so nerfed that it's a waste of time.
Here's a question for you:
As a lvl 70+ BH am I wiser to waste my time spoiling lvl 60 mobs at a 20% of normal rate for bones.. or would I be better off trying to spoil something like say.. A grade Weapon Recs, Maj Jewlery Recs, A grade weapon parts, EWA's, or EAA's?
If your clan has your BH wasting their time trying to spoil base mats off of dark blue mobs instead of instructing the members to use the manor while your BH goes after the really hard to get stuff, then that's your decision to make.
The fact is, there should be base mats spoiling in good quantities at 60++ so that I have to choose whether to go after recipes or go after mats, or hell, go after the recipes and then the mats to make the items, but there are not.
Lastly - The spoil tables on Stratics are actually very up to date, they contain C4 info. If they're not good enough for you, there's a site that's not allowed here that is even more accurate.
Only a fool nerfs his kill rate (str) in order to give himself even more HP (con). The reason why - The faster you kill, the more xp you get. 60 or 80 points of Patk is going to get you way more mobs killed per hour than another 1k of HP
I feel it is false to say all -str tats are foolish. You also have to consider the roll you normally play in parties.
If you are considering for the support/DD role then its a good statement :)
I don't know of a dwarf role in a group that doesn't involve doing as much damage as possible. We can't tank, because we have no hate, and if you're in a party where the dwarf is able to maintain aggro even after --Str/ ++Con, I recommend finding another group, because the DPS in that one is just sad.
I suppose in a polearm party that extra 2k of HP might be handy.. but I'm still thinking the extra 10% Patk is much much more handy. Kill faster = take less damage.
For dwarves, and especially BH's it's all about kill speed. The more mobs you kill per hour, the more spoils you get per hour, and the more XP you get per hour. As I said before, ++Con might sound like a way to up the number of kills per hour, but it just doesn't end up that way, because you have to rest longer to regen, and because --Patk makes you end up actually taking more damage, because of the extra 2 or 3 swings the mob gets on you.
Are you new?? High lvl BH spoiling low lvl mobs doesn't work. Why do you think farmer BHs delevel at town guards?
Can you read??? I have said several times now, my friend who is a high lvl BH says that there is a rule where no matter how high lvl you get you can always spoil lvl 60 mobs. She has been playing a BH since open beta, please do me a favor and read the posts. Also do us all a favor if your high enough lvl, try it so you can either prove her wrong or right.
YOUR FRIEND IS WRONG.
Since there are many of us telling you that, and only one of you saying it, the burden of proof is on you.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I've been playing my BH for 18 months. I am above lvl 70. I actually started playing in OB. Over the past 18 months and 70 levels, I've spoiled a huge variety of mobs, including hundreds of dark blue mobs. I don't need to go and record the spoils of 100 lvl 60 mobs to tell you that the spoil rate is so nerfed that it's a waste of time.
Here's a question for you:
As a lvl 70+ BH am I wiser to waste my time spoiling lvl 60 mobs at a 20% of normal rate for bones.. or would I be better off trying to spoil something like say.. A grade Weapon Recs, Maj Jewlery Recs, A grade weapon parts, EWA's, or EAA's?
If your clan has your BH wasting their time trying to spoil base mats off of dark blue mobs instead of instructing the members to use the manor while your BH goes after the really hard to get stuff, then that's your decision to make.
The fact is, there should be base mats spoiling in good quantities at 60++ so that I have to choose whether to go after recipes or go after mats, or hell, go after the recipes and then the mats to make the items, but there are not.
Lastly - The spoil tables on Stratics are actually very up to date, they contain C4 info. If they're not good enough for you, there's a site that's not allowed here that is even more accurate.
The problem was that there are BH's saying it is impossible for them to get animal bones at their level. I am pointing out that according to my friend who has also played a BH since open beta says it can be done. Not that it should be done by the BH, but that it can be done. PleChan is saying there is no way for him/her to get the bones needed to craft. I am saying just too lazy to go and do what must be done. Animal bones, animal skins, and iron ore all have lvl 60 mobs they can be spoiled from. Lvl 60 treasure chests in AL, GC, DV, TOI, and VOS all spoil both bones and skins. Iron ore has a lvl 62 spoil from Ghost War up near devestated castle. If my friend is correct, and no one wants to try this out, then you can readily get those materials by spoiling. Unless you are prepared to test her theory out and prove once and for all if she is correct why keep argueing?
ROFL.. It's not impossible, it's just stupid to do. I could also go kill Elpies, they drop bones and I can one-shot them, eventually I'd have all the bones I could ever want.
We are arguing because you are giving misinformation on the topic of dark blue mobs.
In addition to that, while the availability of spoils for mats post 55 are not non existent, 1 mob type is not enough to satisfy the economy.
Crack open your Recipe book and look and see what mats it takes to craft an A grade weapon - say SoulBow.
Then ask your BH friend how long it's going to take to gather all the mats, especially if they are trying to do it on dark blue mobs...
The problem was that there are BH's saying it is impossible for them to get animal bones at their level. I am pointing out that according to my friend who has also played a BH since open beta says it can be done. Not that it should be done by the BH, but that it can be done. PleChan is saying there is no way for him/her to get the bones needed to craft. I am saying just too lazy to go and do what must be done. Animal bones, animal skins, and iron ore all have lvl 60 mobs they can be spoiled from. Lvl 60 treasure chests in AL, GC, DV, TOI, and VOS all spoil both bones and skins. Iron ore has a lvl 62 spoil from Ghost War up near devestated castle. If my friend is correct, and no one wants to try this out, then you can readily get those materials by spoiling. Unless you are prepared to test her theory out and prove once and for all if she is correct why keep argueing?
When will you freeking drop this? Your stating MORE AND MORE AND MORE MORE MORE wrong things, first off.
HIGHEST LEVEL MOB WHO SPOIL ANY OF THE LOWER LV MATS IS 60. Ghost War don't even spoil MATS AT ALL. It on other hand spoil, 2x Recipe: Mithrill Arrow, and Earing of black ore piece.
Secondly, yet again GO AND CHECK IT YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!, darnit you don't need to be an lv 70 BH to test it, all you find is to find your 'BH' FRIEND, who so likly clame he can spoil them just fine, and go and hunt them. As I'm seriously doubht you will find ANY other BH who's willingly to go and waste there time doing it.
You have as well have more then 5 peopels here typing the very same thing, when will you give up?
ROFL.. It's not impossible, it's just stupid to do. I could also go kill Elpies, they drop bones and I can one-shot them, eventually I'd have all the bones I could ever want.
We are arguing because you are giving misinformation on the topic of dark blue mobs.
In addition to that, while the availability of spoils for mats post 55 are not non existent, 1 mob type is not enough to satisfy the economy.
Crack open your Recipe book and look and see what mats it takes to craft an A grade weapon - say SoulBow.
Then ask your BH friend how long it's going to take to gather all the mats, especially if they are trying to do it on dark blue mobs...
I know exactly what it takes to craft stuff, and animal bones is one of the mats that my clan always needs plenty of. My clan consists of maybe 6 of us that are on at least 2-3 hours a day.
So far I have crafted
1 set of DC robes
2 sets of BW heavy
1 set of bw light
1 set of doom heavy
4 sets of avadon robes
1 Hell Knife
2 Bow of Perils
1 Damascus
with the exception of the BW when I say set I mean full set. For BW I crafted doom helms and sold them to buy the BW helms as the 100% recipe is very hard to get. Also I sold a BoP to get the DC robe. Lots of other lower grade stuff, don't tell me what it takes to craft I already know. And I also know it takes team work to do it. Thankfully my clan works together to get things done.