Some time ago someone mentioned a fidelity bonus for long time player. Balis it was you right ?
We were several to aggree that a two years commitment was probably worth a little help in a form different from a Chrono Cithara.
Several other balance topics showed us how hardcore players were constantly getting advantages and leveling help while the average normal player was often left behind. Each new chronicle is bringing higher end content and is widening the gap between the twice 75 and the once 60.
Even the economy is favouring the top players who have naturally more resources.
And with S grade's arrival, where a 70 could hope to survive against a 75.. now you can't. It takes a 75 to survive a 75.
The gap is widening.
Cool you'll say but what owuld be the solution ? I don't live in Utopia. It's a spectacular solution. But if you consider it long enough you'll see it's not as much a sacrilege as it seems.
I propose to offer free XP pourcent.
Each month, if your account is active, If you're not yet 70 AND IF you haven't leveled more than ONCE you'll gain 33%.
On that base an average player would not have gained more than 4 to 6 levels. Because it's 8 levels max on 24 months but you won't get those 8 levels since you have to level at least some of the months.
It's a nice incentive to keep your account active, a nice reward for your fidelity, a small step to lessen the gap between hardcore and normal player and not too much to penalise hardcore players.
The price of bones makes A Grade easier to get for a savvy player, especially if he or she has friends.
Are you just dumb or provocating ? No savvy player can get 10k bones from regular drops. And the friends struggle enough themselves to fund you. Do you actually play the game or are you just trolling here ?
The price of bones makes A Grade easier to get for a savvy player, especially if he or she has friends.
Are you just dumb or provocating ? No savvy player can get 10k bones from regular drops. And the friends struggle enough themselves to fund you. Do you actually play the game or are you just trolling here ?
Ignoring the posters tone, which is undoubtebly rude... he's right Maline. You can't get these amounts in any way. I any way that I know off at least.
Dumb ain't rude. Blunt yeah but not rude. And she's asking for it profering nonsense just for the sake of not agreeing.
Savvy ppl making profits from bones... yeah... sure. If you happen to have a stock which you don't need... = if you are not leveling or already in S grade. yeah.. everyone fits in here.
honestley i got eneugf mats to make a dle yesterday in 4.5 hours ported to town became a royal coin member made the dle and sold it. it took a over all investment of about 20m so i dont see where this whole " no one can afford a grade" comes from if you are smart you can make it in a fue days
what you ask for is (free) limited powerleveling service from NCsoft right ?
i'm proud of every XP point i have, i don't want these... if you want to lessen the gap, let's talk about banning every unlegit players (those who botted (even once), buyed powerleveling, or ebayed adenas to equip themselves and level faster). You'll probably not see much 75+ anymore. And those who would still be here deserve what they have.
It's not my fault you don't manor - a savvy player would.
Read better. I do manor... I am now the proud owner of 3k Great Codran which I can't sell back. I can't cash them due to the manor being bought out a few seconds after reset time. 2 reasons to that : automated players and too low buy back.
You play L2 theorically. Practically ppl face quite a few challenges you could learn from.
As for the stats, with a level 58 BH, on a holiday where we made 30% on mobs spoiling bones he made about 300.
So everybody is a BH in S grade and doesn't need bones. I'd love to play on your server...
what you ask for is (free) limited powerleveling service from NCsoft right ?
i'm proud of every XP point i have, i don't want these... if you want to lessen the gap, let's talk about banning every unlegit players (those who botted (even once), buyed powerleveling, or ebayed adenas to equip themselves and level faster). You'll probably not see much 75+ anymore. And those who would still be here deserve what they have.
How is this fair to the legit player who has played for 2 years and actually levelled up to 75+? I think the only fair rewards should be decorative (tint your gear, special accessory, different fishing pole).
I agree as someone who has been around since OB who has a DC set and has helped friends craft numerous A grade items, the market is open to those who know how to use it.
I feel that free 33% or whatever would be horrible if it capped at 70. How about instead we say that each day you pay for your acct and don;t log in you get 20k xp. nice fast lvling at lower lvls the hgiher ya get the less it benefits ya.
If in 30% you only got a few hundred bone where were you lvling. during a grind session with my BH and a clan bd (oop buffer) we netted over 1k animal bone in about 8hrs and that was not manoring. I love ppl who ocmlain about a.bone, I make 200a usually off of having a buy shop up one night then a sell shop the next day. Miz your "blunt" aka arragant tone is laughable since all your really saying is that you can;t seem to make money like other legit players maIIaine et co so then NC soft must fix it.
market is fine. its a free market economy, and as such it is usually the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. (on a side not Woot bought 40 black papyrus last night ended up with the "rare floor"s and got a mazg circ glv boot rec) Now I will be able to afford to craft my arcana mace
market is fine. its a free market economy, and as such it is usually the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. (on a side not Woot bought 40 black papyrus last night ended up with the "rare floor"s and got a mazg circ glv boot rec) Now I will be able to afford to craft my arcana mace
gratz :) iven bene wondering about the feaseabulity and proffitabulity on the back paps my self :)
While I agree that the "Originals" should get something other than the useless Chrono, I'm not sure about the XP bonus. I do think we (those that have been around since day 1 and have had an active, current account) should get something that the masses don't get.
However I think that come C5 or this current anniversary right now all the recognition we will get is "I play L][ and all I got was this sucky Chrono whatever" T-Shirt. :confused:
your not doing some thing right with the manor then and nc shoudent have to change that for you
rofl most undocumented manor post ever.
The manor cannot be better configured than your manor lord is clever and the manor lord cannot buy back more than the game mechanics allo = too few for the many ppl cashing in.
Also it's hard to beat automated players while cashing in. These are two manor facts which you should know about.
Ok unless things have changed with turning in stuff since C3...
I used to rearrange the windows so I didnt even have to move my cursor and I just clicked repeatedly until it bought back when the it became time to buy back
...AND still the automated players would beat me, every time for 3 weeks straight up, finally I gave up and sold the crops for a low price just to get some money out of it.
So Maline, it certainly is a fact... unless things have changed, I see the manor windows have been vamped up in C4, dont know if that somehow makes it easier to sell back now.
Otherwise I agree though, its not that hard to get A.
And to stay on topic... I don't think exp bonus would be the best reward for active players of 2 years, how about a special kind of glow or aura like heroes(but different of course) or a unique accesory thats actually good looking.
How is this fair to the legit player who has played for 2 years and actually levelled up to 75+? I think the only fair rewards should be decorative (tint your gear, special accessory, different fishing pole).
Not any more fair than other systems that change and benefit certain players that older players miss out on already.
I used to rearrange the windows so I didnt even have to move my cursor and I just clicked repeatedly until it bought back when the it became time to buy back
Wrong way to do it, eh? If you don't know how to do it, don't complain about people beating you to it. Thinking you can beat the bots at doing things fast repeatedly is a bit silly, since they can, for example, most likely bypass some of the windows.
Judging by my own speed, if even four or five more people are doing the same crop properly, anyone coming with such a lax approach will fail to hand in. That's the simplicity of it - I'm not sure how many people actually bot the hand-in anymore.
Please tell me the people who got B Grade in c1 had it easier than me. It took me about a week, and that's when I was stubbornly crafting everything and spending a lot of time levelling too. >.>
market is fine. its a free market economy, and as such it is usually the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. (on a side not Woot bought 40 black papyrus last night ended up with the "rare floor"s and got a mazg circ glv boot rec) Now I will be able to afford to craft my arcana mace
gratz :) iven bene wondering about the feaseabulity and proffitabulity on the back paps my self :)
Blacks an white paps. I bought 30 white paps this weekend. Got enough of all the floors to turn in once. Got lucky and got the DC recipes. I also got several other rare floors. I sold the rest of the rare floors to make my adena back. Crafted DC boots, failed on gloves and sold the helm recipe for a rediculas amount of aden (half the price of what the helms sell for on devianne). Was going to try and craft the helm but decided to try and sell the recipe first. LOL what a good choice.
I am lvl 65 still in Demon/avadon. I started monday at working the economy without grinding. I had 16mil to start with. Its sunday and I have over 120mil adena now. This is all from buying and selling from/to players in Giran. So basically I made 105mil in a week without leaving Giran.
Of course I got lucky and made most of it with the TOI blueprints. But I did make 20mil buying and selling other stuff to get the capital to invest in the white paps.
Working the system and making adena can be done. Of course it takes time and you have to do it continually. Specially if you have 1 account like me. I hate having to do this and slow my lvling down, but I have to get my A gear somehow.
Just saying it is possible to make adena in this game. You can do it without ever leaving Giran. Just have to be patient.
Oddly enough, I happen to have almost 4k bones in my stash (850 of which belong to a player who has me as a handing-in friend).
I'll use those bones (and then some) to finance my alt once I've decided whether that alt will be a PW or a SwS.
If I ever find A Grade armour or weapons more pretty/**** and handy than Avadon, I'll consider getting myself 10k animal bone to craft it, too.
PS: I'm sure throughout B Grade I've sold around 10k animal bones and close to 20k varnish.
It's not my fault you don't manor - a savvy player would.
PPS: The resale margins on buying and selling mats also get a bit larger with increased inflation.
PPPS: I'm all for a market fix - until then, the market as it is is workable.
I have no idea what server you play on Maline, but I'd suggest you make a toon on Erica and then show me just how "savvy" you'll be with the manor we have. =)
You give me the crop, I hand it in for you. I need to stay up late tonight anyway, and the Dev manor I use is down. So you can meet me at about the full hour of the manor handin in front of the manor manager in Taurins' quarter in Giran.
However, don't be much later or it'll get messy. :p
Worst case scenario you get your crop back and I have to try again - best case, you'll have a few mats and look like a fool.
I take it you play on Devianne then? No wonder you can hand in crops lol. Maybe it's because Bartz has much more players on it which is why i'm having such a problem. Looking through your post, all I can see is you giving condescending replies as to how easy it is for you to use this mystery technique to turn in fruits. Please play on a server with more then 10 people. Kthx.
Devianne isn't a low population server - it's the third that hits full status when things go up, so maybe get your statistics straight before you try to bash other people.
I will gladly attempt a hand in on any given server, although of course not all at once. I can't guarantee my success, but I'd be quite surprised if I didn't manage after a few days.
Devianne isn't a low population server - it's the third that hits full status when things go up, so maybe get your statistics straight before you try to bash other people.
Which is still much lower then Bartz. I don't think this can be denied really.
I will gladly attempt a hand in on any given server, although of course not all at once. I can't guarantee my success, but I'd be quite surprised if I didn't manage after a few days.
So basically it goes from "This is so easy to do even a child could manage it" to "Well I may or may not be able to turn in chilly cobol on any server but i'll get it one day". You know I probably did come off as harsh but the reality on Dev does not match the reality on other servers. With the demand in S and A grade armor this Chronicle I have not been able to turn in chilly cobol for bones. It seems I will just have to keep trying or hope for some major power grid disruptions in China. If you have some magical technique to do this I can understand you not wanting to tell everyone. But don't say that you have already posted your technique in this thread when you have'nt. If you have please point it out to me and i'll make a new thread stating that my reading comprehension is not up to speed.
Since we don't have numbers - especially on the people using the manor - I doubt it can not be denied that easily.
I compliment your reading comprehension. It is definitely possible to beat an automated player, but obviously I don't have a 100% success rate either. I can get sleepy, I can get an itchy nose in the critical second, I can just be beaten by someone because I don't have seconds on the clock I use to do my time-in.
No, it can't be done by any child - which is why I'm not giving the instructions out.
Yes, it can be done, and consistantly, by any player willing to put their back into it a little.
PS: Since juo didn't contact me, want me to try on Bartz instead? I don't mind either way.
PPS: In case it sounds like a rip-off for your seeds:
A) You apparently can't hand them in, so they're worthless to you anyway.
B) My reputation on these forums is worth more than money on a server I don't play on. :)
by the way i am on bartz and the manor is **** easy there if you cant hand it just think about it or il buy your ctop off of you for about 75% of the buy back price :P
and its not there is a cerent set up that once you find it its real easy hell my clan bacickley has goddard locked down on selling mats to becouse theay offer the best prices maby untill you figgure it out you should just use one of the middle offering towns the return is still good on the investment
and il have to look in to the black and white paps just wondering what did you buy them at on your server ?
bad idea I am a legit player and I was able to make it to 75 so if others aren't willing to put the time in they DON'T deserve to ever be 75 plan and simple. Its not an impossible feat guys yes it takes hard work and a lot of time but thats the way everything is. If you aren't willing to work for it why should it be given to you.
So you're both going to go quiet instead of allowing me to at least attempt to prove my point?
Very nice. :mad:
Sorry, I was out for the rest of the day doing some shopping and making returns on some merchandise. I sent you a pm with my character name MalineII, pm me on Bartz whenever you get on.
Humdi, so why am I handing in my chilly cobols and golden cobols NP? If you can't hand it in, don't blame anyone but yourself. :D
I'm logging in to get more chilly cobols now. :) I ran out of stuff to hand in during the week.
Il let you in on a little secret kid, you are able to turn in your 3X SEEDS because the farmers abandoned them along time ago. The poster you are aruging with is trying to turn in 6X SEEDS. 30 level difference here bud, and unlike your seeds, there's competition to turn them in from both legit and nonlegit players.
People like yourself doing lowbie seeds don't even belong in this conversation. S/He's on a totally different level than you and the competition is intense.
On my server only 2 castles buy great codran, and they buy less than 2k of them all together. Do you have any idea how many people try to do those seeds and turn them in? No, I doubt you do. You are too busy doing 3x seeds on your 2x character and bragging about it with your 6k post count.
Know how many chillies can be turned in per server? WELL OVER SEVEN THOUSAND. Of course you arn't having any trouble turning that in.
Let's not forget the already mentioned fact that you play on a less populated server then the other people you are trying to talk down to.
Il let you in on a little secret kid, you are able to turn in your 3X SEEDS because the farmers abandoned them along time ago. The poster you are aruging with is trying to turn in 6X SEEDS. 30 level difference here bud, and unlike your seeds, there's competition to turn them in from both legit and nonlegit players.
Five levels of difference. Chilly is still very operable at level 55, and I know that because I do it.
People like yourself doing lowbie seeds don't even belong in this conversation. S/He's on a totally different level than you and the competition is intense.
It's only a matter of quantities - if you're attempting a full hand-in or for that matter, a "major chunk" hand-in, that's your own fault. It's part of savvy manoring to know what you can do.
On my server only 2 castles buy great codran, and they buy less than 2k of them all together. Do you have any idea how many people try to do those seeds and turn them in? No, I doubt you do. You are too busy doing 3x seeds on your 2x character and bragging about it with your 6k post count.
Know how many chillies can be turned in per server? WELL OVER SEVEN THOUSAND. Of course you arn't having any trouble turning that in.
Same principle. The Chilly sells out just about as fast as anything else, and there is more competition for it because there are more seeds for it, and the seeds are so cheap that people can operate it up into silly levels.
Let's not forget the already mentioned fact that you play on a less populated server then the other people you are trying to talk down to.
Bartz, right? That's the last hand-in I did.
I'll tell you what.
Meet me at the manor manager and quit your whining until after I've failed to hand in your seeds.
Or, do a ju00, go quiet and save yourself the risk.
So we have to endure Maline's usual tactics to make a point :
Be the most vocal about it and burry every post with side to the points posts till everyone is bored and stops replying.
Please remember that :
1 : this thread is about fidelity reward and level gap
2 : the manor system is screwed FOR MOST PEOPLE due to TOO LOW BUY BACKS and automated cash-ins.
So you resort to moving away from the fact - that I handed in for someone who claimed it was impossible due to XY circumstances and admitted after hearing a few explanations that he was just doing it wrong - and resorting to critiquing my admittedly rather bossy posting style? :p
That's a nice attempt right there.
The "automated cash-ins" are very likely players that are faster than you - Giddeus attempted the same hand-in as me at the same manager with the same crop and quantity as me yesterday, and he didn't stand a chance any more than usual.
And yes, it's about fidelity reward - which has been discussed in its entire depth (it's unfair either way).
Go make your own thread about how it happens you're the only one to be able to beat them while returning crops.
Manor is broken and that's all there is to say to prove it. You being vocal about it si not a proof ... /hint
On topic.
And no it's not unfair. Not a single second more nor less unfair than life not letting you enough time to compete with 17 years old people not making their few homework to play and reach 75 in 4 months.
As you spend money on a long term, despite not making it to the high end content, is a proof of commitment. Those few %s would be a much appreciated an not unfair gift.
After all, for a hardcore gamer, those %s are only a day or two maximum. But for the normal player, those % can be a whole week and a step to make him go on, knowing his efforts ARE rewarded even if they're not enough to level him.
Basically malineII miz here seems to be sayign that the manor is broken because HE can;t turn them in. Even if you can or I can, he fcan;t therefore it must be broken. Miz your digging a hole for yourself here, what yoru showing is that malines opinion is less then yours. the manor system currently is not broken, it is used by an elite few to get wealthier, just as many similar programs where used irl.
I thnk we hsould be given Blessed Enchants for our long time with the company.
Halfling Heroes of Devianne (don't goooo Bitzy T_T ) manored their way up into a capital where they could start playing the market - that's a whole clan. Devilstar of Devianne also manored very actively while I was with them. Malmallen/Vanguards of Lionna do. I'm sure every server has clans like this.
The manor is just another competitive element - just like it's possible to get to level 75 legit, it's possible to turn in legit. Calling anyone who can do it a cheater just because you can't won't change the facts.
And yes, a little "loyalty pack" of items adjusted to your main's level might be nice. It shouldn't depend on not playing though - that's backwards. Those that play more deserve more reward.
PS: Real life insults are more petty than anything you can say about the manor. There are plenty of people who work full time and still play relatively successfully. It is not the game's responsibility to adjust for your real life: I don't go play football goalie place and ask people not to shoot at my goal just because I have a real life circumstance either (fear of balls), because it is beyond ******ed.
The whole thought pattern that you should be able to make it to 75 definitely is what's hurting people, not the inability to do so.
there is no problem with the manor think about ti there are legit people who are 75 theay have some thing most people dont and there are legit people who can rule the manor theay have some thing you dont dont whine about it and find what yo ucan do better then outhers
I use the manor often. I have never complained to NC when I have to compete for the perfect-timing click, it's part of the game, it's possible, some days I win, some days I lose. I do not use a third-party program to spam the turn-in requests.
The manor is a great way to make money if you know which seeds to do and what materials can be sold at what prices (some castle owners don't even understand this, as they set their seeds to lose their seeders money). I totally agree with the response to people who find themselves broke in Lineage to direct them to the manor as an in-game, no-huge-clan-required method to improve your economic situation.
However, I am not too stubborn to admit that the process of turning in seeds could use some big improvements. Timing a click at a specific game moment is silly and not fun at all. There could be a queue, there could be a mini-game, there could be something else which is a bit more fulfulling, but trying to predict when the server silently goes from "under maintenance" to "turn in now!" is not rewarding.
As for the original poster, seniority rewards would be good, but they shouldn't marginalize the time someone has put in this game. There are many MMOGs out there and by design, Lineage II requires more time than most. You would have to be in serious denial to think you should get to the top any other way.
In CoH they gave all orginal CoH players (from Issue 1/beta) auras on their highest toons.
Why not give Capes or something similar to all the orginal Prelude/beta players in L2. Nothing funtional but when someone walks by you they know you are an orginal player of the game.
However, I am not too stubborn to admit that the process of turning in seeds could use some big improvements. Timing a click at a specific game moment is silly and not fun at all. There could be a queue, there could be a mini-game, there could be something else which is a bit more fulfulling, but trying to predict when the server silently goes from "under maintenance" to "turn in now!" is not rewarding.
As for the original poster, seniority rewards would be good, but they shouldn't marginalize the time someone has put in this game. There are many MMOGs out there and by design, Lineage II requires more time than most. You would have to be in serious denial to think you should get to the top any other way.
Ty for your reply Amer.
On both points.
That's why I propose a quite low %age. I'm sure you wouldn't have gotten those %s many times if you analyse your leveling. You are not an utterly fast leveler but you are quite steady. And so even if someone is activating his account he could only be ... lvl 8 after 2 years.
And if he does level to 24 he won't be able to be more than 31. And if he goes past 50 there are very few chances he can make it in 2 months being thus max 56. And while past 60...You will have leveled during a few months meaning you could only be something like 64. Etc.
At 70 you don't get any more additional %s.
If you get to 70 without ever getting any benefits from that system, what will it mean ? Only that you had enough time and resources to get there by yourself. And still the 5 longest levels ahead.
On top and sole on top, with the masses not alone in the dark.
Well, I have multiple reactions to that idea. Yes, you have solved the problem of not undermining my hours spent playing, but.
1) If it's so little of a reward, would it even satisfy a casual player?
2) Why CAN'T I get something too? That's why I like the CoV Aura/Cape or the Guild Wars alpha tester shirt. Those things don't help me at all in game, but they have a kind of social meaning, which has a value.
I think the Chronos feel insufficient because they occupy (waste) an inventory slot and there is really no reason to ever to have it on, except to blatantly prove you were around for whatever Chronicle. Similar to Pledge Shield.. good for screenshots or AFK shops, but really, if you can't wear it when you are actively playing (hunting) it really is kind of impractical.
To be honest the rate at which people can level now makes me sick. I remember grinding incessantly at Kariks in pit in C1 for 800 xp a kill. Dangerous as hell also. Now you can get 10x that XP or more in the same amount of time. I wish they would have never adjusted it at all. All that works amounts to very little now.
It certainly would be nice if this game would at least make a small effort to encourage the casual players! It would also be nice if I crapped gold! :o
I'm afraid this game is nothing but (and is content to remain) a niche, filled by the "hardcore players". It's a dirty, dirty shame that it looks and sounds better than anything else on the market today, because I am a casual player myself. I guess style is just more important to me than content!
Anyway, here is an example from one of the most loved/hated MMOs currently popular in North America.....
The " Experience point Vitality" system in EQ2 was a great idea, and I think that something like it could be implemented without a huge negative impact on this game, if done carefuly....
Of course, ANY increase in leveling speed will ruin the game for many people, so it would probably not even be considered. Are ANY suggestions from the NA fanbase considered?
Anyway, here is how they did it: Every hour, a certain amount of Vitality was added to the player's pool, to a maximum of 100. A percent "Vitality" bonus was added to all XP gained, at the cost of Vitality.
Also, EQ2 rewarded Loyal players in a (yearly, I think) event, giving out XP+% potions, Wands of repair and such.
Sorry to be so negative about it, but I feel very strongly that loyalty should be rewarded and Casual play should not be punished, it's just that that's the way this game was designed.
The gap in level and gear is intended to drive people onward, and even to discourage them.
How about geting us a Stryder with armor and weapons for the peeps that have been here since Prelude. That would be a very good prize. You can keep it or sale. Is worth a few $$ to. So win win situation.
However, I am not too stubborn to admit that the process of turning in seeds could use some big improvements. Timing a click at a specific game moment is silly and not fun at all. There could be a queue, there could be a mini-game, there could be something else which is a bit more fulfulling, but trying to predict when the server silently goes from "under maintenance" to "turn in now!" is not rewarding.
As for the original poster, seniority rewards would be good, but they shouldn't marginalize the time someone has put in this game. There are many MMOGs out there and by design, Lineage II requires more time than most. You would have to be in serious denial to think you should get to the top any other way.
Ty for your reply Amer.
On both points.
That's why I propose a quite low %age. I'm sure you wouldn't have gotten those %s many times if you analyse your leveling. You are not an utterly fast leveler but you are quite steady. And so even if someone is activating his account he could only be ... lvl 8 after 2 years.
And if he does level to 24 he won't be able to be more than 31. And if he goes past 50 there are very few chances he can make it in 2 months being thus max 56. And while past 60...You will have leveled during a few months meaning you could only be something like 64. Etc.
At 70 you don't get any more additional %s.
If you get to 70 without ever getting any benefits from that system, what will it mean ? Only that you had enough time and resources to get there by yourself. And still the 5 longest levels ahead.
On top and sole on top, with the masses not alone in the dark.
Still a Stupid idea! Play the game more if you want to be a higher level. I've played since prelude and been just fine why should someone who has done nothing differently get rewarded because he is lower level screw that learn to level yourselves and stop crying if you have seriously been playing since prelude and aren't lv 70-75 yet then you either aren't playing very routinely or suck at it! Either way why should you get for free what others had to work for? There should never be a reward for lazyness and casual players should never expect to be in the same league as hardcore ones. Its like just cause you go to the gym every other week you think you should look like those body builders things don't work that way grow up. If I am reacting harshly its because I can't understand how stupid one must be to think they actually deserve a free hand out and others not, Lazyness is one thing but being lazy and expecting and still being selfish enough to say only you and others like you should get it thats just stupid.
How about geting us a Stryder with armor and weapons for the peeps that have been here since Prelude. That would be a very good prize. You can keep it or sale. Is worth a few $$ to. So win win situation.
Cheers!!
What you have been here since prelude and dont already have a strider fully decked out with armor and weps. Or have you sold your strider already.
Still a Stupid idea! Play the game more if you want to be a higher level. I've played since prelude and been just fine why should someone who has done nothing differently get rewarded because he is lower level screw that learn to level yourselves and stop crying if you have seriously been playing since prelude and aren't lv 70-75 yet then you either aren't playing very routinely or suck at it! Either way why should you get for free what others had to work for? There should never be a reward for lazyness and casual players should never expect to be in the same league as hardcore ones. Its like just cause you go to the gym every other week you think you should look like those body builders things don't work that way grow up. If I am reacting harshly its because I can't understand how stupid one must be to think they actually deserve a free hand out and others not, Lazyness is one thing but being lazy and expecting and still being selfish enough to say only you and others like you should get it thats just stupid.
Not being able to use empathy and reasoning you fail to see a few points...
Not having enough time to compete with hardcore players does not mean being lazy or not enough motivated.
There are a few reasons why people can't spend 8 hours per day in an online game mind you (or 2 if you prefer smaller figures). I'll name a few. Work. School. University. Kids. Wife. Social life. Sports. Friends. Family at large. Traveling. Illness. I believe you've heard about a few of those. Even other games would be a good reason mind you.
Lazyness in thinking is less acceptable than any other form. Think smarter. You only see a very small part of the picture and still think you're allowed to express judgments on people and call them lazy. So who needs to grow up ?
The problem is the game is most entertaining at high end content and that a very small %age of people attain it. And those people don't get there for good reasons. While this suggestion (and every other btw ) will never reach in game status it would help a vast majority by reducing the gap between hardcore and normal players. The width of this gap is just a design flaw than some people seeing a bigger picture than you do acknowledge and try to prevent.
As in the reply to Amer you should see the hardcore players' work is NOT in any way diminished and the people getting that help still would have to make all their way in 70+ world which is by far the longest.
With all the help they get, new players only spend very few days below 40. While old time players had to grind massively to get there. Then new areas were added benefiting the hardcore ones while the normal ones were left aside.
With each chronicle, noobs (newbie buffs) and hardcore players (new areas with better XP, more raid bosses for gear, better gear) see their leveling curve softened. Normal players should too. Just a return of the balance.
How about geting us a Stryder with armor and weapons for the peeps that have been here since Prelude. That would be a very good prize. You can keep it or sale. Is worth a few $$ to. So win win situation.
Cheers!!
What you have been here since prelude and dont already have a strider fully decked out with armor and weps. Or have you sold your strider already.
Nope i could get one, but nver though it a good investment coming from my own pockets...lol
But as a gift, it would difinitly rock :P
The question people are asking is - if you can not invest the time, why should you be able to compete with hardcore players?
I'm level 5x, I get owned left and right when and if I PvP. That is because I spend most of my time studying (am in fact right now, or am supposed to be :p ) or trolling forums instead of playing.
And that's how it is. Someone who can put in two or three times my time DESERVES to pull past me - why are you trying to make it out like we should all be able to get to 75 in a few months?
The game is fully enjoyable if you set your goals right even at lower levels - of course some aspects remain closed (like sieging to win), but others pretty much close down at higher levels (soloability on almost all classes, which higher level casuals might miss). The many areas open at any level are: open field PvP, clan wars, PvE, questing (past 40, which is easily reachable for a casual, there is a constant supply of rewarding quests), roleplay (heaven forbid), the market (the hands down most interesting part of the game, IMHO, and playable in large parts by a level 1!), the manor...
If you force yourself to have a tunnel vision on high end content, you'll obviously be unhappy - but that's your fault, not the game's.
Getting rewards and investing time are not two opposite concepts.
Yes, but the rewards suggested in this thread are typically attained by investing time. The point that I'm trying to make is make the loyalty rewards something that is not a time-investment-based achievement.
Read the post I was replying to - in which you obviously hit reply on the wrong person. Anyway, fidelity rewards should not be in parallel to time investment rewards. Some unique, untradable visual accessories or a special kind of formal wear might be better - and not discourage people from levelling.
Getting rewards and investing time are not two opposite concepts.
Yes, but the rewards suggested in this thread are typically attained by investing time. The point that I'm trying to make is make the loyalty rewards something that is not a time-investment-based achievement.
Again, the concepts are not opposite by design. It's a bit like quests giving money and XP as rewards.
You're basically rewarded for running around instead of killing mobs.
There's nothing in game that can't be obtained by spending time if you think about it. You want that super extra cool item to put uselessly in your hair ? Time will bring it if you use enough afk shops to play the manor.
And what would be the point of rewards that would bring you things that wouldn't help in game. And what many people strive to get in game is exp. Also remember the amounts involved are small, and if not symbolics, nothing to make someone stop leveling to get them.
For once ppl would receive somehting that's worth something. And hardcore players would benefit from it too. On their alts which probably even them don't have enough time to level them all ;)
Getting those rewards would not make you able to compete with hardccre players. At 70 you can't compete with them. And if you read back you'll see you won't get more than 2-3 or maybe 4 levels on your way to 70.
A nice help, but nothing to make you get there without hard work.
It's just "A BIT" of XP.
And it's not based on 'focusing' on high end content. But then what's the point of chronicles since for ppl level 50+ and 65- the game wouldn't be different if we were still in chronicle 2 besides they would still get owned by daggers and not nukers.
So helping LONG TIME PLAYERS (over a year) to get to use that content cannot be a so bad idea. It's a way to keep those people who might legitimately feel they're not taken care off.
As said above, the leveling curves are softened for noobs and hardcores, but never for the average player.
So yeah, you get small rewards by investing small portions of time... They're play time rewards.
Not fidelity rewards. You could get play time rewards and fidelity rewards helping you in game.
Accessories are crap. Who needs a hairpin ? Will it help you take yellows more easily ? You'll look cuter according to once's standard ? How cool.
Except of course, if it's a unique, untradable items reserved for long term customers (I always thought it was a bad idea that you can trade Chronos), it won't be achieavable by putting in time. That's the whole point.
Why spit on someone else's effort? That's not the sort of game this is. Running around for quest exp usually involves killing a fair number of mobs and then getting less experience than grinding in a good spot during the time would have gotten you. :p
Except of course, if it's a unique, untradable items reserved for long term customers (I always thought it was a bad idea that you can trade Chronos), it won't be achieavable by putting in time. That's the whole point.
Useless. Not interested. If I want to remember how a long term player I am I only need to look at my credit card bills.
Why spit on someone else's effort? That's not the sort of game this is. Running around for quest exp usually involves killing a fair number of mobs and then getting less experience than grinding in a good spot during the time would have gotten you. :p
Depends of the quests. But even if a bit a caricature, questing is basically a: kill 20/100 mobs, run around, rinse repeat.
Besides the fantastically designed ToI quest of course. There it's just 'kill 10000 mobs and don't get your BPs'.
As everyone can't RP, not everyone can't love quest. (and I have my quest book about full permanently - not wanting to lose an occasion to get something)
But since quests are made to relieve you form the boredom of grind, it's a bit like you get XP for NOT GRINDING ;-) exactly what I propose ;)
Stop bringing RP up if you have no clue about it please - no roleplayer who doesn't play a compulsive-obsessive toon could possibly RP these quests.
There is no quest in the game that will get you more exp than if you had spent the time grinding - but you are proposing that people who barely get on should get free exp that others had to grind for. As I said - spitting on someone's effort.
Your long term subscription should gain you nothing better than a free but fairly useless item over people who work harder than you.
Stop bringing RP up if you have no clue about it please - no roleplayer who doesn't play a compulsive-obsessive toon could possibly RP these quests.
There is no quest in the game that will get you more exp than if you had spent the time grinding - but you are proposing that people who barely get on should get free exp that others had to grind for. As I said - spitting on someone's effort.
Your long term subscription should gain you nothing better than a free but fairly useless item over people who work harder than you.
I don't think my sentence was associating Rpers and questers. It was mentioning two types of gameplay that aren't shared by everyone.
Not spitting. Reread. And it's your opinion which you already stated.
I can't help you if you don't see how offering free transportation to standard in game goals as reward for something people did out of game is not a slap to the face for people who worked for it IN game.
Your trying to compare it to quests is ridiculous too - quests are a purely in game system, and every quest requires you to do something to complete it in game - killing, running around, etc. The vast majority of quests that award you experience as a reward require a solid amount of killing first, with the quest usually ending up boosting experience only by a small percentage above what you actually received fighting.
The notion that quests are a break from the grind is also funny - you should tell that to people running Insolence and Exploration quests, I'm sure they'll have a good laugh. They're another means to get additional money, another grind. Just like everything else.
how much you must have been upset by new players getting some undroppable weapons for C4 launch?
Well, it is not as if nobody ever had something useful in the game... Many things were done for new players, but what have ever been done for old, old ones? I was a closed beta tester, what did i got from being a beta tester? Nothing. What did i got since prelude? all the chrono weapons.... I like them, but i would not call them useful.
At the same time, as i had old chars on other servers, i got them these fancy weapons. One of those chars, lvl 23 still had a longsword. Back in those days, equiping yourself, and leveling was certainly not as easy as it is now.
Maybe oldtimers could get something useful for those who did put a minimum amount of time in their chars? Why not a coupon for some commemorative untradable A or S grade armor?
The notion that quests are a break from the grind is also funny - you should tell that to people running Insolence and Exploration quests, I'm sure they'll have a good laugh.
I specifically mentionned the ToI quest.. You prolly missed the sarcasm too.
And didn't you say already you didn't aggree ? For me you can move on. So I can stop replying you that I know you don't aggree. Your posts tend to look like spam atm. And as I won't fail and let you be the most vocal about this topic ; you've entered a circular argument only you can stop.
You know full wel that you can stop it just as well as me, but let's not go there.
Ombre, you raise a very valid point - I didn't think the weapons were a good idea for the same reasons that newbie shots aren't a good idea: They gave you something for free and gave you the illusion of a way the game works in which it doesn't work - on the other hand, it was a nice promotion to get some new (non-ebaying) players into the game, even if I don't like it.
This, however, holds no merit - it actively punishes (by refusing them the experience) those who actively work on their level and allows others to pull past them by actively not working on the experience - in short, it does nothing to even out the gap between a casual and a hardcore, and only hits hard the people with medium level rates (I probably go slow enough to fall under casual) and particularly competent casuals.
Giving something for an out of game reason is already bad - specifically denying it to someone because they worked hard in game is nothing short of absolutely ******ed.
Either way why should you get for free what others had to work for?
Because we've paid the exact same amount of real money for our time, regardless of how hard we've 'worked for it,' as those who did 'work for it.'
Why should we be punished simply because we don't have the same amount of time to devote to the game as the so-called 'hardcore' crowd? Or, what if we just don't care to invest that much time and effort into a GAME, when at any time it could have its plug pulled and it could go away forever?
I come to a game to relax and have fun after a long day of real work.. why in God's name would I want to do MORE work IN THE GAME?
If that's how you think, you're in the wrong genre.
This is a "game" (it's actually a hobby) that is based primarily on effort and reward - if you didn't want to work, you should probably play a strategy game or FPS.
NCSoft does not owe you in game assets for the real life money you pay. Doing so disturbs something that keeps this game healthy and fun for legit players - justice - to a more harsh degree than any amount of ebaying could.
PS: As I pointed out, the slap doesn't go to the hardcore crowd, but to those who make the best of their game time and have worked for their experience.
By your logic - would you like to remove the level system and talk to an NPC to get fully enchanted S Grade gear upon joining?
Getting rewards and investing time are not two opposite concepts.
Yes, but the rewards suggested in this thread are typically attained by investing time. The point that I'm trying to make is make the loyalty rewards something that is not a time-investment-based achievement.
Stop begging for handouts you BUM and play the game!!!
Giving something for an out of game reason is already bad
Must i understand that you boycott events like christmas events? independance day events? L2day events? all these events give something to us for out of game reasons.
During all of those games, an in game action directly results in the reward.
Not playing is out of game. Participating in an event is in game.
The roleplayer in me doesn't like those events by the way - but I don't think they're a bad thing. You're purposefully twisting my words in a painfully obvious way. :p
During all of those games, an in game action directly results in the reward.
Not playing is out of game. Participating in an event is in game.
The roleplayer in me doesn't like those events by the way - but I don't think they're a bad thing. You're purposefully twisting my words in a painfully obvious way. :p
Well, if you don't have anything against these events, you will have nothing against oldtimers getting their personalized easter bunnies?
There is no difference, you could present this as "Heroes of ancient times" event, having everyone complete a quest that would give them a reward based on the date of activation of their account, and limited to the highest char of the account. This reward could take different form, fixed number of xp, commemorative piece of equipment, or something else...
I don't see any difference with many features and events that were brought since last year.
None of those except the newbie one (which, as I explained, I did not like) brought in any out of game requirement - such as having an old account.
And no, don't even start on me being selfish. My accounts date back to mid-OB and early C1 respectively, so I wouldn't be excluded.
Of course, if it's an event, it's more bearable - I don't like the idea of OOG requirements entering the in game floor (because that's right down there with purchasing in game goods or powerlevelling services with real money, except NCSoft would be endorsing it), but I could flinch and deal (as I'm a big believer in doing that with events one doesn't like).
However, if you've read the whole thread, then you'll be aware that it's not an event being discussed, but a permanent free experience reward for anyone who is either
A) enough of a bum not to level once a month or
B) so high level that it would push things ridiculously out of whack if they got that much experience free just for not levelling.
I don't like OOG requirements - i.e. probably more than half of the player base being excluded from participating in real life reward events, events catered at people with specific join dates, be they old or new - but I can accept that they make nice promotions in the form of an event or commemorative items.
I can not, on the other hand, believe the idiocy of argueing that a third of your level should be free if you can't be arsed to get it yourself, and that that's somehow not unfair towards people who DID get their level themselves.
The injustice of not being able to play much is YOUR real life issue - trying to push it into the game breaks one of the most valueable things in MMORPGs, as I said, more than ebaying can.
PPS: Yes, half this post is directed at Miz again.
Well, i have played this game for so long, beginned it even before closed beta, on L2japan open beta (and i don't speak japanese at all, not even speaking of reading it).
Since that time, i have seen so many things, including some people out leveling me in a few weeks using 3rd party softwares, exploits, etc... What's my reward for having been a legit player all that time? There is none. What's my reward for never having used exploits (raid boss bug in C4 anybody?). I think we can assume that players that are still not at level cap after all that time are, like i am, legit players.
I just think that it would be nice to get something for those legit people. Sure, some of those that got to level cap are legit too. And what, while some of us will just win a few months of grinding, these people would just gain a nice boost to yet another subclass... A reward given to everyone, but that would make more sense to those lagging behind in terms of of levels/equipment, would just be nice.
What bother you, that some lucky people should get something while you had to earned it the hard way? Welcome to the world of Lineage2, where many of us have felt the same way for many events. But maybe it is making too much sense to let the old legit players be the lucky ones this time?
Not everyone who outlevels you is using exploits or botting.
Not everyone who has more money than you ebayed.
Your reward is having enjoyed yourself - as a casual or legit, if you can not deal with being a casual and legit and go at your own pace, taking your own pride in being legit or getting far on what time you have, that is your fault, not the game's.
What is my reward for adding depth and storyline to my character? I get to RP with it. That's not a reward from NCSoft, but the reward I created for myself.
What is my reward for putting together PuRs that allow melees in, allowing some of them to partake in something they can't usually do? I can always count on these melees to join my rift groups, too. Not a reward from NCSoft, but from myself.
This topic is not about a reward given to everyone - it is a reward given specifically to those who did not acquire a level in a given time frame. That means that the old legit players who buckled down and worked - and they deserve rewarding over those who did not, that is how this game works - are punished by being left out of the reward scheme, while the slackers like myself are rewarded. That's wrong.
What you are suggesting now is different from what I'm argueing against (thus you taking what I say so far out of context), and different from what was suggested originally.
I believe a long term reward could be established in terms of "chronicle attendance" - it's a bit late to do it now, but how about giving everyone who participated in the majority of open-to-all events in a chronicle, no matter how successfully, a little token at the break of a chronicle? Nothing significant to a hardcore player, but something that might matter to a slacker like you and me. :p
Already, you're in a completely different area than saying "you have an old account and didn't play it, so we shall give you free things!"
So, you are now agreeing that the idea isn't that bad? The original poster would have sure appreciated that you started positive cristicism right from the start instead of some "go level u noob" comments, like those you did initially.
I think that the initial poster had a good idea, even if there is lots of room for improvement. That improvement in term of xp for example, could be easy to implement. Let say oldest accounts get 10% of what is required to level from 78 to 79... Well, it will save some time for those already 78, but if you translate that amount of xp for someone lower level, it can represent a big boost. After that you make it so people that have newer accounts get only a fraction of that boost, et voila! You managed to give a slight boost to ancient high level people, slight boost to newer low level ones, and nice boost to ancient low level people.
Like the initial post, this is only a suggestion of how it could be done, and there is certainly room for improvements. But this is what the dev team is for, making it work, and getting everything balanced.
Concerning those who had an account back in prelude and haven't played since, well, maybe it could entice them into coming back? With appropriate level of advertising, a way to have some people that left early to come back and take a second look at what L2 has become. There are many differences with the original game, not only in terms of content, but also in terms of gameplay.
Oh, and remember, it make you look way smarter to answer with positive criticism, instead of the dumb "go level u noob" kind of answer. Maybe in the end it will not be possible, or it is not the right time to do it, or any other reason could show it to be totally impractical. The "you should go level u noob" just isn't going to be one of these reasons.
I don't believe I told him to go level - I told him that if he didn't have the time to level, he shouldn't have the levels given to him for free just because he didn't level. I will gladly say so time
and again - and put that clearly, doesn't it sound ******ed?
Should everyone who made less than 50 million adena in a given month be handed 25mil for free? Should everyone who doesn't have a stryder yet have the hatchling they keep in WH boosted by five levels for free every month?
It would make you look smarter if you didn't put words in my mouth. You're twisting the idea inside out by making it "available to all" as opposed to "restricted to old timers who have some sort of issue and can't enjoy the game unless they're at the top and want that handed to them since they can't reach it themselves".
Well, i'm just trying to be constructive. Twisting the idea should be what you could have done if you hadn't been so busy trying to dismiss the entire idea.
And now that i think of it, This idea would even make more sense for all europeans players that left their servers to come to Teon. A nice move toward the many casual players that left their servers, leaving behind them the characters they had leveled, to start again from scratch on the euro server. Many are casual players, and the change really didn't helped them levelling.
The idea is corrupt at its basis - rewarding inactivity over activity - so there was no point in trying to improve it - and you aren't, you're posting a completely new idea.
"Let's drink some petrol!"
"How about no?"
"Don't dizz him, it was a good start - how about some bitter lemon instead?"
An event with experience rewards would be good - but I honestly don't see how someone who specifically did less (even if they did it longer) is a more important player (not customer, mind you) than anyone else and deserves an in game reward.
If they want to make a long term customer reward, they should keep it out of game - for example by sending people who have been there from the start a free special addition prettily-printed game time card at the launch of every chronicle. Or to make it less elitist, sending them one if they'd been there (and active) for the last two or three chronicles before the one that's being launched.
But of course, that's something so quintessentially different than Miz's suggestion that it should go into its own thread. I don't want to be associated with the "you suck, you actually found the time to level" school of thought.
It is not a new idea. The basic idea was to give a boost to old players that are still low level. What i came with is still the same, giving a boost to old players that are still low level, just in a different way. So it is rather :
"Let drink some tea from that bucket"
"How about no?"
"ok, let drink some tea from a cup instead"
It is still tea... (and don't come say me tea isn't as bad as petrol or bitter lemon, it is for me :eek: )
No. The original idea was to give a boost to players who didn't level that month - in short excluding players that did something in favour of including players that did nothing. The boost would be much more significant for a high level (I can still get a level in maybe 10 hours, but at level 75, a casual can't "definitely" make a level a month even at only a few hours of levelling time a week).
Not for the sake of it... LOL
Of course not. You just can't stand people expressing opinions opposite to yours without speaking.
You feel compelled to reply till no one express something you don't aggree with.
I had already noticed, no point continuing discussing with him.
You had an idea, gave an example of how it could be done, and he dismissed your example, and your idea at the same time. When i came along with the same idea, but another example of how it could be done, he just dismissed the example as being different from the original one, without paying attention to the idea in itself.
Just another forum warrior... There is really no reason to continue answering him, none of his posts brought anything useful to the discussion anyway.
How about geting us a Stryder with armor and weapons for the peeps that have been here since Prelude. That would be a very good prize. You can keep it or sale. Is worth a few $$ to. So win win situation.
Cheers!!
What you have been here since prelude and dont already have a strider fully decked out with armor and weps. Or have you sold your strider already.
Nope i could get one, but nver though it a good investment coming from my own pockets...lol
But as a gift, it would difinitly rock :P
Cheers!!
LOL I feel the same way. Would love to have one but dont want to buy one and im to impatient to lvl one. But thats just me..