I'd like to get everyones opinion on what constitutes a bulk shop scam. The shop in these images has a cougar charm for sale for 75m along with two +5 Dark Screamers for 1 adena in a bulk shop. The title of the shop is "always low prices".
It seems pretty straight forward to me, a classic bulk shop scam. However our very own Caleria of erica (who is in the same clan as the store char) seems to believe it is a legitimate store and that if someone fell for it, they are a moron and deserve it. Caleria argues that its so obvious the cougar charm is overpriced that it is your own fault if you buy it. But isn't this how all shop scammers work? It's pretty obvious if you are paying attention, but all they need is one person who isn't paying attention for a nice payday. Thoughts?
Wheter or not it is a scam, is of absolute no importance.
It is legal. It is not against the rules. Shopping with eyes open will help you to not fall for it.
That is all that counts. Selling 650 D-crystals for 9876 adena each can be an honest mistake too, but it is considered a scam. Still it is absolutely legal and only fools fall for it.
Just because its legal, doesn't mean its right. There are countries where its legal to beat children, that doesn't make it a right or good thing to beat children.
It is not a question of game legality, but more of showing some morals. Harming and scamming other players like that is not a good thing.
Not questioning the legality of it, it is certainly within NCSofts rules. That being said, its interesting hearing this person voice support for the store.
Did your little daughter buy something from X that she didnt need by accident or why are you so worked up about her shop?
You're right, scammers are not welcome in our clan... however it is common practise to sell all but one item for 1 a in a bulk shop and give one item (typically the breastplate in case of armor sets) the price of the full set. You may find that confusing, I think it's more convenient for the buyer as one can see the total price without dragging the goods into the "buy" area of the shop window.
If you have 75 mil on your hands and don't know how bulk shops work I feel sorry for you. Wether or not the offered goods are overpriced is up to the buyer... those who might be interested in those weapons probably know why, cant blame you for not knowing all market secrets tho.
On a last note I find it pretty pathetic that playa had to announce "Caleria = scammer" in "hero" chat, probably because you asked him to, after I put you on my block-list... A little angry that I didn't want to have a pointless debate about your personal opinion with you? :p
Why is this whole post so much about me anyway? It's neither my shop nor my clan after all... and if you think you have to prove that I cannot live up to the ideals of the good L2 player I like to draw in my posts on these boards... then you'll have to come up with something better.
I pity you. :(
Cal
Edit: ROFL I just noticed those screenshots are named "caleriascam" ^^ hilarious. *rolls out of the room laughing* SLANDER! SLANDER! CALL THE GUARDS!
I'd like to get everyones opinion on what constitutes a bulk shop scam. The shop in these images has a cougar charm for sale for 75m along with two +5 Dark Screamers for 1 adena in a bulk shop. The title of the shop is "always low prices".
It seems pretty straight forward to me, a classic bulk shop scam. However our very own Caleria of erica (who is in the same clan as the store char) seems to believe it is a legitimate store and that if someone fell for it, they are a moron and deserve it. Caleria argues that its so obvious the cougar charm is overpriced that it is your own fault if you buy it. But isn't this how all shop scammers work? It's pretty obvious if you are paying attention, but all they need is one person who isn't paying attention for a nice payday. Thoughts?
Dont think that one is a scam. 37 or so mil is within a reasonable limit to buy a +6 dager, that shop just forces you to buy both and the coguar.
Bulk scam shop is when you put title "Blessed EAB' and have 2 blessed and 2 regulars there at cost of blessed.
It is a common practice to sell items at a very cheap price and one item at a high price in a bulk shop...for scammers. There is no need to put the full purchase price on one item as the total is displayed when you drag the items down, as you mentioned.
Claiming its so obvious and it would be "impossible" for anyone to fall for it isn't even up for debate as many people have fallen for scams of this type before. Advertising A crystals for sale and selling soul ore instead should be obvious and "impossible" for anyone to fall for using your logic, but surprise surprise people fall for it. The scammers aren't fishing and hoping to catch every person who comes along, they just need one person who isn't paying close attention to come along.
Why? when you click on one item to purchase it all of the items drop down, the price clearly shows what you are paying, the item is listed as a bulk sale.
Scams are where you get something different that what is advertised. Not something different that what you thought that you may get, ie, a darkscreamer for 1adena in a bulk store.
If You look closely you will see that nothing is advertised as being something that it's not.
The seller is trying to be clever in selling items for one adena where the remainder of the cost are made by selling another items at a significanlty inflated price.
What you also have to realize is that this is a player run market.
If I set up a bulk store and sell lvl 2 lvl 12 crystals for 1 adena and then throw in a piece of coal for 160 million then where is the scam unless I lie and say something that deceives the player.
Remember.. it's a bulk store. The player is expected to buy everthing in the store so they would have to (or should) check the price of everything in order to see if the ultimate price is worth it.
Also... it is not a scam if I set up a shop and selling soul ore and charge 80 million per unless I actually say that they are soul crystals. One could (if one wanted to ) sell their items for anything they want. You can sell stems for 50 million if you desire. No one with any sense would buy them but you can do it.
The scam in my eyes is the idea of trying to deceive the buyer by placeing false information inthe store sign and the having the buyer purchase something that is not what was indicated.
And scamming is not against the rules in this game. Keep in mind I don't really support scamming as I feel it's scummy. I do however, support player's rights to play how they want in the context of the rules.
It seems to me a gray area as to whether or not the person in that picture is really trying to scam or if they are just being "clever" or "cute" and presenting weapons for 1 adena but then charging what may be their correct bulk price for another lesser item.
I don't know how much those go for but do 2 +5 dark screamers go for around 75 million?
I don't really consider this a scam. On the contrary, it just makes things easier. The red text in the shop name should tell you automatically that you have to purchase EVERYTHING in the store. If I wanna sell a BoP for 1a and 500 silver arrows for 100k each, then that's my discretion. It's a bulk shop. When you click on it, the price you have to pay is at the bottom above the ok button. Also, people should notice the fact that when you want to buy something from a bulk shop, all of the items go down to the buying window pane. Everything that has anything to do with a bulk shop is very noticable. If you end up losing a fortune to a bulk shop, then you deserve it.
I'd say it's a scam in the same way a clearly labeled "Cheap D crystals" shop is a scam where the amount and the price are reversed. You can clearly check each part and see how much it is, when buying it you can see the price. They are just hoping you don't pay attention, which is the basis of most of the scams in L2.
That being said there is nothing wrong with doing it, just something to be aware of.
I'd say it's a scam in the same way a clearly labeled "Cheap D crystals" shop is a scam where the amount and the price are reversed. You can clearly check each part and see how much it is, when buying it you can see the price. They are just hoping you don't pay attention, which is the basis of most of the scams in L2.
That being said there is nothing wrong with doing it, just something to be aware of.
Well, that is exactly my point. It isn't a scam. If you put up a shop that says "12,000 cheap D crystals" and then you buy 4 D crystlas for "12,000" adena, then of course that is a scam because you are being false in what you are advertising.
But this person just says "Sale by Bulk, always low prices".
So if the +5 dark screams are 20 million each then that leaves the value of the cougar to be 35 million (we don't know the level)
I think the player is being a bit dishonest then that these are low prices (that seems a lot for a cougar though).
It is not really a scam per se because there really isn't a trick. The cougar is 1 adena and the screamers are clearly marked.
I've seen stores where the player is trying to get rid of some items and even though there are 1 adena items in it the other items add up to either slightly less or the correct price when you take into account the actual market value of the 1 adena item.
Where this would be a scam is if the player advertised all items at 1 adena but (for example) one dark screamer was 75 million.
There really is no trickery here. Just a statement indicating low prices where the value of the items (given what we are given that the Dark Screamers are about 20 mill in actuality) is slightly overpriced.
but heck.. merchants do that all the time. It's not exactly honest but not false advertising.
Sort of like when stores advertise items for 10% off and if you present the coupon you get an additional 10% off. But in their add they advertise various items 10%-20% off.
So the buyer gets confused as to why they are not getting full 20% off and the cashier has to explain that their particular items are only 10% and then from that total another 10% is taken off.
It's not false advertising but does require the need of the buyer to excercise some thought.
So I would say that the seller could very well think that his cougar is worth actual value 35 million (when you take into account the actual value of the screamers) and therfore believes the whole thing is a good deal (again, don't know the lvl of the cougar). But anyone else would say "heck no!"
Lol, Tyranden doesn't care if it's a scam or not, this is a lame thread designed to make Caleria and her clan sound bad.
Rebember SP are the ones Accusing MANY legitimate players of illegal program use and adena buying just to give them a bad name. Still waiting for one of them to get a 72hr ban for that, it's totally uncalled for and should be bannable. (not had any word either way on it yet though.)
They really don't seem to keep themselves content. They traind the towns, scam, grief all and everyone on the server, pull magical lvl 78 toons out of thin air that you've never heard of in your life. They Recruit BOTH redGuards and PeaceCountry, the two raidboss farmer clans so not only is no one high level able to raid, subclass, finish quests or get high end content, but if they do finally get a group to beat the farmers they're going to have to kill SP too.
Now They are using herochat and forums to spread lies about good players on the servers to blacken their name where they can't reply or retaliate (hero).
Oh, just to show how old these guys are, they got a new alliance name now..... Baddies. :)
Am I right in saying those of you who say its not a scam believe so because there was no false advertising involved? How about this: Theres a dwarf that sits among all the other crafters in giran and has a title of "dss and mats". When you open up his craft shop you'll find just that, dss and mats...at a whopping 5,000,000 adena per craft. No false advertising involved here, but can any of you say hes out to provide a service to his fellow players? Hes scamming people, its that simple.
The thread was never about the morality of scammers. It was about Calerias defense of a scammer at worst and a misleading, severely overpriced shop at best. Caleria tries to hold himself and those around him to a higher standard and looks down on so called "cheaters" (note his tone on SP). Yet when I pointed one out he dismisses it as a legitimate shop.
Am I right in saying those of you who say its not a scam believe so because there was no false advertising involved? How about this: Theres a dwarf that sits among all the other crafters in giran and has a title of "dss and mats". When you open up his craft shop you'll find just that, dss and mats...at a whopping 5,000,000 adena per craft. No false advertising involved here, but can any of you say hes out to provide a service to his fellow players? Hes scamming people, its that simple.
The thread was never about the morality of scammers. It was about Calerias defense of a scammer at worst and a misleading, severely overpriced shop at best. Caleria tries to hold himself and those around him to a higher standard and looks down on so called "cheaters" (note his tone on SP). Yet when I pointed one out he dismisses it as a legitimate shop.
Well... though I think it is wrong to craft shots for such a huge amount, one should be able to craft for that amount. It's insane and extreme but suppose someone decided to sell DSS for 20 each. As long as they didn't say it was anything but DSS then it is the buyer's duty to make sure they want to pay that price. it is a bit disgusting to also go to the extreme and charge 2000 per DSS. But again, not a scam per se unless there is misleading information. Also, people tend to stay away from shops like that when they learn that the vendor is not "quite right".
As far as Caleria's defense of this person. I don't know Caleria but Caleria's opinion is Caleria's opinion. Just as valid as yours in this scenario given what we know.
But you are correct in that, in general, people should not adopt one attitude on a subject and then take a completely different take on it if it is a peson they like or if it benefits themselves. However, who is to say where the line is drawn in an ambiguous example where it really does sit in a gray area.
But it seems that maybe this is more between you both and since this is the general discussion, the only thing we can do is spur a discussion on the fine points of sell shops.
Dont blame anyone else but your self if you dont pay attention to what you buy and what you pay for.
You can see all the items you buy/have crafted, you can see the amount adena's you have to pay and most of all YOU are the one who click the "OK" button.
Apearently people have to much adena's these days to pay pay a bit of attention on their spending....
The thread was never about the morality of scammers. It was about Calerias defense of a scammer at worst and a misleading, severely overpriced shop at best.
They really don't seem to keep themselves content. They traind the towns, scam, grief all and everyone on the server, pull magical lvl 78 toons out of thin air that you've never heard of in your life. They Recruit BOTH redGuards and PeaceCountry, the two raidboss farmer clans so not only is no one high level able to raid, subclass, finish quests or get high end content, but if they do finally get a group to beat the farmers they're going to have to kill SP too.
Now They are using herochat and forums to spread lies about good players on the servers to blacken their name where they can't reply or retaliate (hero).
Oh, just to show how old these guys are, they got a new alliance name now..... Baddies. :)
That's the whole Irony :P. For those who do not play on Erica, Only Server Police(or Baddies now) are allowed to Grief, PK, and Scam. IF anyone else does it, then it's a baaad and immoral thing to do :p
Tyranden, you my friend are a moron. Maybe with that 85m you can buy yourself a c4 guide to learn about bulk sale shops; with the extra 321k buy yourself some common sense and think about them. Sorry im not as diplomatic as Sovrath.
Love always,
Duke
Ironically enough, a certain site tells me that the other prices for high level baby pets on Erica were in a similar range recently, meaning it was no more of a scam than the recipes for, say, A Grade helmets. :p
But what you are doing here - isn't it pretty close to out of game harassment?
You know this can work against a person too. Recently I purchased Avadon robes, shield and gloves for 1 adena each. Not my fault the seller forgot to click on the bulk item sell. I passed up the helm for 15mil adena though.
Am I right in saying those of you who say its not a scam believe so because there was no false advertising involved? How about this: Theres a dwarf that sits among all the other crafters in giran and has a title of "dss and mats". When you open up his craft shop you'll find just that, dss and mats...at a whopping 5,000,000 adena per craft. No false advertising involved here, but can any of you say hes out to provide a service to his fellow players? Hes scamming people, its that simple.
It seems to me you have a different opinion from everybody else here what constitutes "scamming".
Just opening a store and charging ridiculous amounts of money for something is not scamming, it is simply opening an expensive shop. When I put an ad in a newspaper "want to sell VW Golf 1985, $90.000", is that a scam too, in your opinion? Of course not, everybody can see the price, point at it and laugh. Same with your overpriced craft shop. It's not a scam unless you deceive people somehow. Opening a store with a title "soul bow staves, A crystals" and then selling soul ore and stems, now THAT is a scam.
It's actually less misleading to mark all of the items 1a except for one. Why? Because only an absolute moron would think they found a DS +5 for 1a. Whereas if each item was marked as it's intended price, a person might think they found a DS+5 for 30 mil or whatever, buy it and find they got the whole bulk rate and just blew 75 mil.
On top of that it's not like he was advertising the DS's as Kris's or something, like the ole D gems instead of SoP's switcheroo.
It's not a scam, it's just the way bulk shops are done. Whether or not the items are overpriced really has no bearing, but +5 Homu swords (same as DS) fetch a decent price, and high lvl cougars also go for a decent amount, so I'd say I don't even think it's severely overpriced.
Sounds like we have a ****** bag OP on our hands here.