Which is hardly appropriate for a discussion on farmers, or company policy. I conciously avoided bots in that particular locked thread, because I know there is a better place to discuss that. ;)
And I know that unlike moderator6, Tisirin reads things to identify their content before locking, so I'm sure he's digging up the appropriate official thread (which I couldn't find after a quick scan) at the moment.
That's not really a customer friendly policy to threaten people to ban their accounts for posting a well written letter which just states the opinion of a great majority of the players imo.
jeese, i just looked at that "official" thread, and boy was i dissapointed. all it is is people bashing each other, and nuts proposing conspiracy theories about how the FBI can track down hard drive numbers and find your house.
one word. Useless.
if tisirin would like to propose an alternative thread to tha cesspool, or perhaps creat a new thread where this topic can be discussed openly, it would be greatly apreciated
I don't quite get it. Splatter - bot detection has nothing to do with farmer bans. The bot detection is a matter of collecting hard facts - the locked thread was specifically about things we can not get hard facts on, and what people thought about that. If Tisirin didn't want any discussion, he would have locked it with a "no discussing this on the forums" or deleted it.
But he did refer us to an official thread. Bot behaviour definitely isn't it - unless we've just been given official permissin for the biggest hijack in board history. Thus, it's only natural to wonder which threads we're meant to go to: From me at least, this is a sincere question. ^^: Posted it in PM as well, but then this thread happened.
As I have said, we have had a rash of threads today that not only defied the rule on the proper place to discuss this issue, but also broke the rules on spamming the forums and endlessly reposting removed threads. This must stop.
We have been very clear on this issue and all the information we can possibly convey is in the first post of the official thread. What else is there to say? We can spend our energy in endless circular arguments here or we can spend it on enforcing our terms of service. The choice is obvious.
I would like to refer you to this portion of the official post by Mistryl:
---------------------------------------------
Q: Why can’t I talk about botting/selling adena on the official message board? Are you trying to censor me?
A: The forum policy asking players not to discuss these violations on the message board is not intended as a form of censorship. These discussions tend to be circular and more often than not result in accusations and arguments, so the policy was put in place to prevent that from happening.
We do understand about the desire to share concerns and information about this issue, so we ask that this thread be used for that purpose.
-------------------------------------------------
This policy has been in place for quite some time.
I am well aware of the rule Tisirin, sorry if I wasn't clear.
I do, however, believe that that rule is usually only used to lock topics that contain no fresh content, which was not the case here. If the rule is to be enforced indeed, can we have a thread similar to the bot detection one for discussion of farmer/communication issues?
TheIronGolem, it's part of the much-grumbled company policy not to tell you how many threads were deleted (that thing about not discussing disciplinary status). I believe they were banned for spamming/breech of the botting discussion rule.
Why the one on the official thread was deleted, I'd also be curious to know - unless it was late to arrive and this spamming started before it was posted there, not as a result of its deletion, in which case you have your answer.
PS: Thanks for leaving this open for feedback/discussion Tisirin.
ETA: Splatter, if it is it should be cleared up. These issues are basically the reverse of each other, so putting them together seems sorta backwards.
It's kinda ironic.
If the in-game GM's would be as active as Tsirin and ban as many raid farmers as Tsirin removes threads / bans ppl on the boards, then we wouldn't have been here posting in the first place.
It's kinda ironic.
If the in-game GM's would be as active as Tsirin and ban as many raid farmers as Tsirin removes threads / bans ppl on the boards, then we wouldn't have been here posting in the first place.
Except, due to company policy, a board infraction is much easier to confirm and act upon. That arguement is just as old as "they don't ban botters cos they need the money" when there's always, of course, "botters come back with a new account, which means more cash".
The forum staff is not the same as the in game staff. Most of the deletes were not performed by Tisirin but by moderator02 and 09 (or 2 and 9? Beats me).
Absolute incompetence in community management are words that comes to my mind, I have no idea why, wonder why this place is deserted and there are only 60k players in a NA in a game that has 1.3 million in Korea...
And to add, that is a [censored] policy you have right there Tisirin =)
Now my post has been deleted by SOME BODY and noone at NCSOFT has felt to be KIND enough to provide me with a reson or even what parts of the post where not allowed
In my post all I asked for was to be informed of what parts of my post was in violation of the forum policy.
This is from GrandSavage, since he cannot speak for himself, since he has been banned "spamming":
If these issued are indeed circular, is that not a good indication that there is and has been a problem present for some time that warrants your attention? Shouldn't that be a good indication that the botter and farmer problems are of great concern to the playerbase? The only way that discussion of this matter will stop is either:
1. The problem is addressed.
-- or --
2. You ban everyone that is discussing it, which seems to be the current policy.
some mods may be getting offended at this, might be thinking we are providing a harsh critique(I am not saying they are but it might be a possibility). More than likely the lack of farmer control is not due to the incompetence of the current of nc staff, but much more likely do to understaffing, outsourcing, and etc.
I would assume that they don't think you're providing a harsh critique, but rather that you're being odd for thinking yourself somehow martyrs by losing game access over something that was, beyond obviously, posted in an inappropriate format.
If you come to a new country, you play by their rules, the same goes for forums. You probably collectively made actually discussing this matter harder, and it is a crying shame that upstanding and concerned players are so willing to throw everything away over a bit of petty pride.
You know how they can afford more people for their staff? Get more new players in game by providing a solution for the problems descripted in the letter and marketing the game, C5 as being the best chance to do so, cause there will be lots of "midgame content"
I would assume that they don't think you're providing a harsh critique, but rather that you're being odd for thinking yourself somehow martyrs by losing game access over something that was, beyond obviously, posted in an inappropriate format.
If you come to a new country, you play by their rules, the same goes for forums. You probably collectively made actually discussing this matter harder, and it is a crying shame that upstanding and concerned players are so willing to throw everything away over a bit of petty pride.
If the man gets you down at work, you form a union, and with that union you put preassure on the employer until he has to fold, you dont accept stupid policies that gets shoved down your throat by incompetent hacks, you fight back and show the power of the little people =) (Eventhough this is the internet, which means often the players are "bigger" people than the "powers that be")
Unions generally don't get better work contracts if they attempt to set the factories on fire. They operate by the rules set forth by an agreement of how much striking is allowed how, when and where, strict formalisms and so on and so forth.
These people do, as I said, unfortunately not have to care for 100, or even 200 or 300 people leaving. You are not the bigger people - you are asking for them to make good on their promise to give you a pony (and believe me, I do really want one), and you won't get it if you don't ask right (and quite possibly not even if you do ask right).
I hope you see, Maline, that though your original post was at least from a certain perspective constructive and well-written, these threads always, always return to circular arguments, unconstructive negativism and emotional criticism.
Now we have agents for banned players acting as their conduits to post.
This low level of discourse is why we instituted this policy in the first place. I am locking this thread and hope that I do not have to police on this subject further. If so, we will escalate the disciplinary process to include game account bans. I'm sorry that it has to come to that because I have very much enjoyed my holiday that I have spent on the Lineage II forums. :)