Players of Consequence part 2

Letz try this 1 more time as the beginning of this thread never violated any rule book :)

I am curious to know if people of consequence post here?

Are there any leaders of major server alliances actively participating in discussions on these boards?

Are there any Hero's or Noblese actively passing on their wisdom here?

Plz note that I am not wishing to put others down or anything of the sort. Just posting a curious discussion starter.

Next if there aren't any truly consequencial players posting on the official forums? why not? is it the same in Korea? or does this place smell or something?

go go post ur thoughts

Panic

*don't mind me I tag one of my later posts on here as well :)

Getting back on topic

What is of consequence in C4 is essentially numbers and experience. Levels, equipment, correct party formation and pvp skill are all naturally drawn from and acquired through game experience.

Therefore I will contend that the top Alliance Leaders, Clan Leaders and Noblese are the players of consequence in any server.

Are there any here?

It's a simple question really.

I dont think so, at least not from Kain. Either they dont post on any boards, or they post on blah it seems.

most post on www.l2blah.com (http://www.l2blah.com)

Just to let you know, the first thread was removed because of flames and personal attacks. Please keep this thread to a flame-free discussion and it can remain on the board. Thanks!

what u destroy an entire thread because of flames and personal attacks? .... ah ... hello .... there was a quality discussion going on which will only continue now I spent my time reposting. This use of a flame thrower ban really can't foster any kind of community in my opinion.

If there had been enough quality discussion to keep the thread constructive, it wouldn't have been removed outright, but unfortunately there wasn't much to salvage. Please send me a message if you have any additional questions about a moderation decision. Thank you!

well that essentially the point of this thread ....

without players of consequence posting here where is the quality discussion?

All players are "of consequence". :)

All players never had the opportunity to consider what was originally posted because it was unceremiously nuked into non existence. Is this spamming personal attacks to become a tool players can abuse to remove threads that make their alliance/clan look bad?

Stop arguing with the boss.

i post on the kain l2guru forums. its pretty much where kain is run

Stop arguing with the boss.

Are you suggesting my concerns are not valid? careful now that could be considered a personal attack :P

Not sure why you have to be a hero, clan leader, or nobless just to be "of consequence". I've been here since open beta. Does that count? How about having been to a siege on every castle on the server? Antharas? Baium?

Lots and lots of people can claim all these things and never be a hero, or could give two figs about hitting nobless. Or just haven't reached it yet.

I know you said you aren't putting people down but you're basically saying anyone that "means" anything posts on blah. I read and post on blah personally but most of the time it's a little too juevenville for my tastes. Just as I'm sure this board is way too censored for those peoples comfort. You can't come here and rant and flame and curse and that puts some people off.

um oooops sry .... imo Bishops are of more consequence than any hero (cept hero bish). Peeps in L2 need to learn to <3 their Bishes like the uber teddybears they are, I do.

But to have a forum where none or very few of the people I suggested as consequancial post would be ... um ... inconsequencial ^^

Next if there aren't any truly consequencial players posting on the official forums? why not? is it the same in Korea? or does this place smell or something?

Lets first look at it from an ingame perspective. You are a leader of a powerfull clan and that clan is in a powerfull alliance that holds one or more castles. Since this game is not the lightest on the grind and money is not easy to come by, and wars are fought, you end up making friends and foes. Basicly (and sorry if I offend here): Shittalk will happen, some people will flame and swear etc. Its perfectly normal due to the nature of wars and ingame politics.

So why do not leaders, heroes etc. post in here, sharing knowleadge etc? Because if you even try to flame, swear or similair here, it will result you in a ban because of the strict forum politics carried out by the l2 staff, which we have seen work its magic tonight.

So what happens? People spread out to other forums with less strict policy, like l2blah (which is an excellent place if you just ignore the true idiots there). Most leaders/heroes hang there because there is much more freedom for the shittalk and politics - thus other players also hang there for the drama.

Drama makes up alot of this game. If there was no drama, we would all just be mindless drones of the grind. Drama excites us, makes people furious and it is a beautiful side of lineage II, even if it might look a bit rough for some :p



So summed up: No, leaders/heroes etc. do not come here often to post.. I know some read and some do post some, but with the current situation of what I (peronal opinion) consider way too strict forum politics, its hard to talk about issues and let our voice be heard.

Blod has boiled tonight (5am currently for me, not easy being an european player in l2), the original letter of concern from the bartz community was our voice to try and wake up NCsoft. Talk about the problems instead of turning into silence. Thats what happens when it just seems silence is yet again what we get. I know many the legit people on bartz, (and there are quite a few too, cooperation and strong will is why I love Bartz so much, and still wont budge to go to Teon that is considered the european server - I love the Bartz community. Known it from OB and still love the people on this wounderful server) they all love this game and despite bad grammar, some bad behavior and reposting of the concerns, I know they only want whats best for this game.

I hope this answers your orignal question.. We watch, we discuss, be it here or other places. We voiced concerns over a year ago, we do today too. Its discouraging to see the same people still hunting on the same spot as they did 1 year ago. Its discouraging to see lockdown on RBs thats important for high levels (for quests etc). Its a problem we have tried to handle ourself, but its just out of our hands.

I know Bartz is not the only ones having problems. Other servers are experiencing the same, and botters we know even brag about NCsoft not doing much. This is even more discouraging, as we have reported them and they are still in the game.



It is not the smell - It is the policy and lack of visual confirmation that stuff happens. We all love L2, we talk about it every day. We are friends and foes who enjoy this game on a daily/weekly basis, and have played since OB. New players even see the problems and quit because of it. We want new players, we wish for a strong community, but its not easy when it seems (personal opinion) that so little gets done. Bartz regulars have taken their time and risk to voice our concern today/tonight, atleast reconsider your current methods, and most of all: Do not silence yourself. Locking yourself out from the community only creates conspiracy theories and bad rumours.

Talking about bad rumours, you should only know how this game is known. When one ask a person what WoW is, he would possibly say its a great game, but with no endgame/horrible raids etc. What do you think L2 is known for? I was in the US, in the san diego area not long ago on a schooltrip visiting some space technology stuff.. and as a gamer, I ofc checked out the computer stores near our motels. I stumbled upon one where someone had actually played l2! He had quited a while ago, and I asked why.. You can guess the answer.

I hate seeing l2 getting this rep. Like someone said: Its a great game, if a certain problem was fixed..
I conclude with: Take into consideration how this game is handeled please. We do not mean harm, we are just fed up with not being able to handle the evergoing problem. We need help.. we pleed for help.. show us that many loud and a few tiny voices together can bring upon a better future for l2 - the game we love! :o

nice post DivineWolf ^^ (p.s. u might want to make a quick copy of it so ur work is not lost)

Im used to seeing posts vanish.. Seen it since OB hehe.. :p
I just hope NC actually sharpens up a little.. the community deserves that much. The community is everything, its what holds the game together, what keeps players from being bored or leave. Fail to realise this, and you have failed badly in my opinion :/
First step is to admit their mistakes.. Even the blizzard writer did that when he saw the lore he wrote for the new expansion messed up with the old lore.. Next is communication and discussion.. then action can be commenced. Not admitting it, and it just gets worse.

Honestly lasts longest as my mom would say ;)

Why are they really of consequence? You could remove all the heroes and top alliances off my server and it wouldn't really make a big difference.

If they aren't posting here, then *shrugs* thats their choice, probably because they can't control their language and want to be able to attack eachother in endless "board battles".

Not to mention a heck of alot of them don't play legit at all, so they'd not want a board like this.

Hindemith preferentially uses these boards over others. Many find blah undermoderated and full of children who like curse words. Call me crazy but if I met the little kid saying half that stuff I'd give him a good backhand and his parents a lecture. But that's youth today right?

2 Anthras raids led
15+ sieges led
2 Alliances on senior staff, 1 Second in command
Politically connected
4k posts

As for other alliance leaders/noblesse on Hindemith, I'd approximate 75% of them post here, 25% L2blah. About 33% of the L2.com posters (that's 25% of the leaders/noblesse/hero that post here) are frequent posters (200+ posts, hey not everyone takes the time to post rather than sub 3 times...so you can reroll fotm as much as possible).

So yes, people of consequence post. Not from all servers however. I find Hindemith to be a more...adult population than other servers.

If they aren't posting here, then *shrugs* thats their choice, probably because they can't control their language and want to be able to attack eachother in endless "board battles".

That hits the nail on the head right there. Most of them use Blah so they can cut each other down and be as juvenile as they want. Also most of them just like to flame and they do it to every single thread. You would be lucky to find 1% of the threads on the other boards with contructive conversation and suggestions without pages of flames and personal insults.

Not to mention a heck of alot of them don't play legit at all, so they'd not want a board like this.

Ya so many people openly admit to cheating on the other boards. If they are not admitting to it then they are accussing other players of cheating. I have seen so many SS on the other forums where you can plainly see the cheats they are using.


Personal im glad alot of the higher alliances and heros dont post on here. Specially since the ones on my server don't kno how to have a conversation without braging about how uber they are and how they PWNU.

These boards have a ton of information on them and I will come here to find and or discuss information before I go anywhere else. People are more honest here and like to help each other with this game.

Why are they really of consequence? You could remove all the heroes and top alliances off my server and it wouldn't really make a big difference.

That is your server. Each server and each person have a different opinions. Just because you do not feel that taking away them doesnt make a difference for you, it would make a difference for me and many others on Bartz atleast.. Taking away the legit higher level players of Bartz, people with alot of experience in this game, would be like killing Bartz's culture. There is alot of history behind the time we have spent on Bartz, a history that makes the server our personal home. I dont abandon my home nor my family there!

If they aren't posting here, then *shrugs* thats their choice, probably because they can't control their language and want to be able to attack eachother in endless "board battles".

Again, each person their own opinion. I myself visit both the official board and l2blah.. I like the drama, I like the talk on blah for how it is. Language is a wounderful thing.. I had an exam today just about the very same thing (norwegian language and its changes). Just because some like it very formal and strict like here, others enjoy the "loose" language found on l2blah. Each their own. Stop putting down the people of l2blah just because there are non-legit players there also. Respect is an important thing.. I used to respect you when I first read ur posts here, now a days its a little different.

Not to mention a heck of alot of them don't play legit at all, so they'd not want a board like this.

I wont go much into this, because I can not account for the people who doesnt play legit.. I have played this game legit since OB, and many many many of my friends have done so too. We have helped each other in thick and thin, and just because you only see the black sheeps on l2blah, you have no right to diss the people I know personally, many of the legit ones. It is us who wish to wake up NCsoft.. We dont want the black sheeps, even thought they roam l2blah often to troll. Especially not inside the game. Nor do we wish for the RB players we know are black sheeps too.. A cleaner game would be healthier to the community. Show the kids that there are limits, but do not hinder those legit who only wish the best for their gaming experience.

You and me both wish for a fun gaming (atleast I hope you wish for it). We only want help to correct what ruins our gaming experience. We have tried before (PK, PvP, training - taking matter in our own hands) and GMs.. God knows how many times I have gotten the "we will look into this.." message. At one time we just have to realise we really need big help.. but with how this game has been run in the last 2 years and the threatment one would get on this forum, its not easy for someone to trust NCsoft, nor the local forumers here in one day, when ur hoping for support and get a delete. They didnt read the rules, yes, they should have checked on the forum customs a little more, yes.. But give em/us a break.. we just wanna have fun in this game again, control the market and enjoy the flow of new players that aint automated..

I try to speak for them in a more plesant-spoken way, not always easy for someone who doesnt even have english as his first language, but I try, for my heart lays with bartz, I feel their pain and I know it well. Its just a game, but when the game isnt fun anymore and you still love the game, wouldnt you do anything to bring back the fun? :)

I agree with you that each server is different. Though as I said, I suspect the impact of lost players doesn't just lie at the top of the game, not to mention the sheer volume of cheating people keep talking about often either comes from the top players or are encouraged by them, so its hard to say that they are much more important as a *whole group* and I am not talking about individuals who can very well be legit and have actually worked their butts off to get where they are, they would indeed be a bad loss to the game.

I am not saying they can't enjoy blah or post really nasty and crappy posts. Heck I do so myself on certain stratics boards with as lose rules as blah does. The difference is that I can control that and post in a civil manner on these forums. Many people won't or can't do that, so they really don't have a place here. This is an official business site not the place for "ha ha, look at me putting a guys girlfriends face on a zombie screenshot and calling her a <censored> just to piss him off" posts.

In the end the legit people want to post where the non-legit does too, because they're part of the game, the drama and the politics. Thats what made certain alternative sites so popular.

wouldnt you do anything to bring back the fun?

I kinda gave up on the "anything" bit when a banned player could hold Aden castle.

But yes, I would like to see more fun brought back to the game, raidboss farming lessened, high end players checked better, approach cheating like they do in sports, Take out gibberish playernames that play 24/7 and so on.

True enough, it is not only the top that would impact the game if there was a player loss.. And when I speak of the top, I mean those legit who have seen more aspects of the game than just the way from gludin to giran.

I am a level 57 bishop, I have played my class from OB til now (with alts and rerolls that never really became rerolls because I love my bishop too much) along side with the current uprising alliance on Bartz (up until last autumn where my school studies took over and I left since I wouldnt be active enough, and I ment someone else could fill in the spot to keep uprising hardcore!). On the way I have met players high and low and the one thing im proud of when it comes to bartz is that cheating has never been tolerated. People do it, yes, some even brag about it, and I have reported every person I have seen on bartz I knew were cheating... I still, sadly, see many of them still in the game, because they somehow manage to fool the GMs or whatever..

I dont know what other servers do, but I know for sure, while forming the letter of concern on blah, some guy who openly admitted he used bot software and said to us we would never get anywhere, because he himself had even petitioned a GM admitting he was a bot and the GM hadnt done anything.. I would love to quote the replies, but like we know, that kind of language wouldnt fit in.. but to make it short and fitting: it wasnt exactly the warm language you see as when people came up with ideas to forming the letter..


People (atleast on bartz) hate cheaters, hate RB campers and the more, and we have worked against them many times. Alas, one should know when things just dont work anymore, and outside help is needed.

I know l2 mods aint exactly the best at going against cheaters on l2blah, but they try.. I have been on irc with them for over 7 hours now talking with them and the bartz community (high and low) about everything. Many doesnt trust a word NCsoft says, and can you blame them?
I gave up reporting bots after I got the same exact message 1 year ago when i used up my petitions reporting "them".. I still find some of them in just a little higher areas (where my alt BH would have found a nice spot for bones if it wasnt for "them" being all over the area :/)..

I know you and me both want to see an end to bad things.. so do many other legits.. some have just less faith and patience than others, so they put up with the cheaters who never see their ban coming and just sorta goes into the "if only one day.." mode.. :(

I love the thread I saw spawning the idea of a mutual date and writing of the letter many now have seen here over and over again.. there was fire and passion.. stuff I hadnt seen since the time we had like 400 vs 400 PvP fights or when we managed to drive out many of "them" from DVC once.. Its rare I shed a tear, but I might have done that today.. I see response, hope, discussion.. I just hope its mutual for NCsoft.. thus I write.. and yeah, I know I write alot.. but I got alot of crap on my mind :eek:

Edit: going to bed now.. actually im in bed, but havent slept through the night.. its 7pm and im still writing lol.. darn exams and now this, im glad its pizza day for us graduating students today hehe :D)