The problem I've been having with a lot of the threads are everyone is saying that Nukers are so overpowered BUT I don't believe all nuker classes are for insist if you take the SH they in most cases I've heard have been very easy to take down by both another nuker class as well as archers etc.. the only class I have found out of the nuker classes to be overpowered has been the Necro's so why all this hostile towards nuker classes? they aren't all overpowered!
Hi,
I think Tiffy could have had a little more respect for her post.
I also think you havent got a clue what you're talking about.. probably never played a nuker?
My SH is 52, has WIT tattoo, which gives him a little more speed (nothing compared to other classes). If i want to put a decent CON tattoo I have to spend at least 4Mil on Sieg, which I dont have.
A hampster could kill me with the low HP I have. Archers and other nukers will most likely own my SH, there's no denying that.
Now, if you give both the same resources to upgrade their toons, the music could be different :)
>>If i want to put a decent CON tattoo ...
How blantant ignorant.
it takes -5str +4con from giran grocery dude, go check the price. that's all my respect. Respect is won not granted (at least when it comes to me).
even -20str +4con is a good tat for SH, understood?
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edit: you dont need really +CON to own. For the record: got bored yesterday and w/ my 27lvl wark wizzard seeder rolled over a 44lvl TH in PL, DScreamer and decent jewels (nukes didnt hit hard). That should not be possible. lvl3 sleep didnt fail at all.
Yes,
thanks for the lesson of applied maths, but I would like to see you, as an SH, soloing in a Cata like branded.
If you can find me a party, I will be more than happy to join it to get the AA that I need.
Last Raid I did was more or less when I was 40, a couple of months ago. And parties are really rare, at least for me.
Until this changes... "Hi Tiffy, yep, you're right!"
Yes,
thanks for the lesson of applied maths, but I would like to see you, as an SH, soloing in a Cata like branded.
If you can find me a party, I will be more than happy to join it to get the AA that I need.
Last Raid I did was more or less when I was 40, a couple of months ago. And parties are really rare, at least for me.
Until this changes... "Hi Tiffy, yep, you're right!"
N
i see no reason why you cant set up a buy store for 1a per AA or maybe party?
Stanimir,
I have not called you names, and I would like you to do the same. Maybe I m not that knowledgeable, true, but I have another life, the real one. I spend 1hr (2 max) not even every day on the game, so dont you dare throwing your cheap comments at me.
When you want a civilised discussion, post again.. you may be lucky and not ignore it.
>>I have a 3rd as well.
How your personal achivements do affect nukers' power?
{and yes i havent graduaded any english school, and yes i dont care about, and yes even the alphabet i use is not latin}
ya true I've just been reading and alot of people are knocking the nukers but I don't believe all nukers or nerfing them is the solution heh I think if melee's were given something that could grief that nukers then maybe it could balance things out?!? I really didn't think this thread would turn so sour but.. I can't really speak for how other people are feeling.. oh well sorry guys :D
I have played probably more classes than most people. I say that solely for reference.
I have a level 48 Spellhowler. She has absolutely great gear and has appropriate tattoos. She's hands down the absolute most powerful character I've played. (I have not played a necro however).
Now, the reason she's like this, is because of two things, her gear and the buffs she receives. Even with those, she dies a lot.
However, what people are talking about is if you compare the classes, nukers vs others at the same level (with the same kind of buffs and comperable gear) nukers far outstrip the others in their ability to kill.
Although tanking is important in some things, just as healing and buffing are important, killing is what gains you levels and pvp counts.
It's this ability to kill faster and more efficiently than other classes that causes the outcry.
30 malees got dropped by a single 9 nuker party...
Various classes and various grades of armor.. reguardless, maybe, perhaps 1 or 2 of the nukers were dropped.. But in the end they all won.
Reguardless, if a zerg squad arrives, made up of nukers, if your malee, everyone that is malee, general just calls it quits and receives the punishment without flagging as the best thing that can happen is for the nuker to go red rather then win an obviously easy pvp point.
or BSOE if you can click the scroll quick enough. (which i've seen some even unable to manage that cause they died apon the first hit)
How bout the fact that some nukers with the right buffs have been able to nuke crit every 6 bloody nukes. Yeah, 8-12K+ dmg dilivered, only CON driven orcs are usually able to handle that kind of nuke.
Reguardless, i've seen SH do just as much if not more damage, they just aren't able to fire them off nearly as quickly, but hell, plenty quick enough.
What's pethetically stupid is someone in Majestic Jewelery with **** good armor ends up dieing to someone 20lvls lower then them. Hell i've seen some really stupid [censored] happen.
Nukers are, Specially Necros, the top PVP/PVE class of them all right now, and have been since c3 got fired up (c4 for necro). And since C3, no malee, i don't care if you a tank or what with +5 majestic jewels, ever figures they are going to 1v1 a nuker and even remotely figure they are going to come out alive.
It's nuker vs Nuker, and occasionally a archer..... every other class simply doesn't matter. And out of the other classes, only the useful ones (SWS/SE/BD/WC) are all boxed or what i see majority of the time *Cough* Unmentionables *Cough*
There is one thing that I have too say. I am a lvl 6x SpS and I don't think we are completely overpowered. Yes I actually think we are fine, I just think more classes have to be jucied up a bit, and maybe make m.def mean a tidbit more than it does now.
Ok well anyway, ppl say warlords aren't the best at PvP. But wholly crap they can -_- my light elf mage ***... With a crit stun lance and equal buff as I have...****...thats all I have to say...I am almost in a constant state of shock...and on top of that they have revival...so god dang...I feel like I am nuking a god **** brick wall!!! All I have to say is that is INSANE. It took me and a sorceror to kill the mutha...and no...it he wasn't like 20 lvls higher than me or her... Not too mention when he crits, which is like every third hit he hits me for over 1000 damage...lol...so he can drop me in four hits...I can't even drop him in that many nukes...
So what I am trying to say is...I think ppl just want everything to have an equal chance to kill another class...that is lame. Yes nukers have a severe advantage over 85% of the classes in L2...but that isn't our problem...that is some of those classes problems... Like WTH...the gladiator can't even catch me if my ice bolt lands...and if he can't catch me he can't kill me... But I know sleep is just god **** fine with buffs... I mean melee such as gladi's and warlords with lionheart and buffs are impossible to sleep. I kid you night, I kept trying to sleep like 20 times...and they resisted it! I mean ZOMG...see me resist stun...yea right! lol
There is some truth in the OPs post. And yes Necros are just rediculas...freakin insane!!!
I applaud the OP's attempts to refute what some are saying here regarding nukers.
However, you will never win your argument.
lvl 40 SH can go in with a lvl 40 SE to Dark Omens and pull out mobs, root, kill. (seen it)
Name one melee that would survive there at 60 with just one buff/healer to help.
Nukers are overpowered. The game is broken.
If you did not roll a ranged, you can not beat one.
Have fun with the game folks. :mad:
WTH are you smoking!!! Ok if I went in there with an SE, that buffs me and then the SE roots (even if it didn't root) I would barely be able to take out that one room before both me and her run out of MP! I have tried and tried, COUNTLESS times. I always hear my Gladiator Leader go in there and solo with a healer all the time...the Blade Dancer is even more crazy because he has powerbreak and hex, along with his dances.... They have no down time with VR and whatnot. If you think a mage specifically a SpS is good at PvE...better than a melee such as destro, BD, SK, Gladi, Warloard, Tyrant...then you are playing a different game man...I mean I can't belive you actually said that...LOL Sorry bud, you are definately wrong on that... The xp per hour I would get in a cat soloing is worse than killing half HP mobs in field for an hour.
ya true I've just been reading and alot of people are knocking the nukers but I don't believe all nukers or nerfing them is the solution heh I think if melee's were given something that could grief that nukers then maybe it could balance things out?!? I really didn't think this thread would turn so sour but.. I can't really speak for how other people are feeling.. oh well sorry guys :D
Could you perhaps talk in sentences? Read it back to yourself and see if you can do it before collapsing from lack of oxygen...
And all RANGED classes are fine, its melees that are underpowered, they should have abilities to slow ranged classes, not the other way round.
And all RANGED classes are fine, its melees that are underpowered, they should have abilities to slow ranged classes, not the other way round.
Remember we use slow skills in PvE. This is very important for us. If we wanna go out and solo a bit, we should be able to. One reason I picked a nuker is because I figured it would let me solo because I don't always have time for group play (I get better XP per hour in groups anyway because I can manage MP better). But I HIGHLY AGREE that melee classes should have some sort of slow skill, it is just rediculas that not all of them do! I mean come on...I actually feel sorry for the gladiator trying his hardest to get into range...It isn't fair! :( We are just fine in PvE...we aren't even as good as the DD melees when they get VR put on them.
Like I said in my previous post...a gladi or BD can solo like crazy with buffs from an SE...whereas mages are restricted because of mana use. Recharge keeps us going for a about 20 min longer, but still a melee with VR can go practically non-stop.
I think Nukers with slow is fine, they dont have high run speed themselves, but the concept Vs Melee's is just silly.
Dont you think its stupid to play a melee? heres the down lo:
- Melee runs to attack archer/mage
- Archer FreezeStrike/Entagles Melee
- Melee starts to run away
- Oh noes! Archer/Mage can still catch melee.
- Melee decides to go back and fight till he dies
- Archer/Mage runs back and keeps 50 feet of melee.
- Melee stands still, cant run to him, cant run away from him.
Like I said in my previous post...a gladi or BD can solo like crazy with buffs from an SE...whereas mages are restricted because of mana use. Recharge keeps us going for a about 20 min longer, but still a melee with VR can go practically non-stop.
I group with another Spellhowler, my Elven Elder and my Spellhowler. We can pretty much go non-stop unless we are fighting things out of our level range. I've tried being recharged by both an SE and an EE. I found it interesting that in actuallity I prefer the EE. She regens mana a LOT faster. Her heals are a lot faster as well.
I know that SEs are the class of choice primarily because of Empower, but in all honesty, I have found I prefer my EE for this and my SE for my melee characters.
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"When The Going Gets Tough, Lay Down And Play Dead"
Prophet 40+ *Tiffy10* Clan: Cronsion Ally: Eternity
Elven Scout 30+ *TiffyTart*
Dark Wizard 30+ *Tiffany*
your a lowbie you coudent even touch a SH ( your only a sh at 40+ btw) so lets not hear any more of the sub 4o
and bahamat you think nukers are ok but outher classes should be brought up to meat them hummm woudent it be easeyer to drop nukers down or would you like nc to add 4 zeros on to the end of every thing in game maby ? " elpie hit you for 30,000 dammage"
its not that nukers are to strong hinestley its that every thing in the game is ment to amplafie a nukers power blessed sps, emp zerk over enchanting. just a little bit in any ofthoes catagories blows nukers power off the charts
this is well said. my melee's usually die before i can open an inventory box.......a couple thousand cp and 2500 hitpoints in 3 hits. That's with the best c-gear and at least good self-defensive buffs including increased magic resistance--also top c-jewels. Give me a break!
are nukers overpowered compared to other classes? only the nukers who can use magic.............
Umm I think nukers are fine in PvE, I stated that directly as a repost to them having a slow ability! Actually I feel that DD melee are much better then us actually. I know..I am in a clan with only one other nuker and there is about 5 nukers in the whole alliance. EVERYONE else is melee or support...I have seen this everytime I log in... And yes there are bsps but there are SS and yes there is Empower but there is VR...granted Empower helps much much more in PvP than VR would, but still. I am saying nukers are fine in PvE, and if you played one you would relize this...actually I could think of things that could make a nuker have a more fun time in PvE. Like I said, I picked nuker because I figured they could solo, or duo because I don't have the time to put in for a large party most of the time. Thats my playstyle and the nuker fit it. It would be unfair to make everyone have to party, and it would be unfair to have "support classes" able to solo. IMO I know 5 ppl that play buffer/healer as mains and enjoy the playstyle of it...so it is just preferance.
I agree 100% when it comes down to nukers or any range really being able overpower a melee. I don't think they should nerf nukers by effecting their skills at all. I have stated that I think m.def should be more of a difference and that every melee should have a skill that slows down a target...enough so they can get into range. Why don't melees want that skill...why would they rather see mages get hit with something...do you hurt so much that you actually wanna PK my **** class? I mean WTH?
Yes what I say will effect mages in PvP, or 'nerf' them so to speak. But it leaves the playstyle that I enjoy, so don't [Censored] with it ok? If you are unhappy with the melee play style, then that is what needs to be changed. I agree...what the other poster mentioned about PvP with most melee is absolutely correct! IT ISN'T FAIR FOR THEM!!! Even though melee, esspecially this one **** warlord, can kill me...no problem....
Yes I am a nuker. But I do love melee! I like all my buddies that play them, and I want them to enjoy PvP as much as I do...so I want it to be balanced. I don't want super easy PvP because I am a nuker (it isn't super easy...but it is a bit unfair)...plz realize I am not here to say "lawl, pwnzor...reroll...haha melee" NOT at all do I want to say that. I just want to enjoy the class I chose, and for melee to enjoy theres. Adding skills is always exciting, where taking away or nerfing them is depressing...do you think L2 needs to loose more honest players because NCsoft brings down a ban hammer on a class's skills?
I am a fan of this game, I and frankly I don't want to[Censored] it up because I am a greedy bastard and what my class to be uber!
Edit: One more thing. You said it would be easier to nerf a nuker than raise other classes. It may be easier, but easy isn't always right! Remember that. NCsoft should be looking for the best way, not the easy way!
Umm the same way rangers and daggers can beat lvl 60+ in NG gear!
Plus if ur weapon is NG...all I have to say is WTH? That must be some sweet ng...or the dude you killed was lying about his lvl, or had no jewels or NG jewels himself...not to mention your skill set is quite a bit higher when you get into 50's...but still there was something wrong with that melee if you could actually kill him in less than 13 shots.
i have a 4o sh that i have killed 70 tanks it maj with.
blessed sps not only doubbles dammage it increases speed, emp 1 is some thing like a 50% increase to m atack. please tell me ANY THING that meles get close to thoes.
Edit: One more thing. You said it would be easier to nerf a nuker than raise other classes. It may be easier, but easy isn't always right! Remember that. NCsoft should be looking for the best way, not the easy way!
if we want to talk about right nc soft is waaaaay off from right
also nukers are over powered in pvm with the current increases theay can reseive ( ie cast speed via zerk blesseds acu and tats ) i have no problem with them launching 2k dammage nukes but every 4 seckonds ? give me a breake
To everyone saying nukers aren't overpowered in PVP.. ever fought a 76-78 nuker? Guess not..
Vortex vortex vortex.. A full group of 70-77 was taken out by 2 Necros, fine they got the jump on us, but wait, one of the necros made -5- magic crits Oo..
I just had the pleasure of fighting a 78 SH, i think I did pretty good as a 77 Sagi with draconic Focus, critted 3 times, I died, he had 4k hp left, one of my crits was broken by an excellent shield block as well, yay..
Make BSPS act like normal SPS in PVP, and take away their shields! They are like tanks with shield equipped against archers!
Ok well anyway, ppl say warlords aren't the best at PvP. But wholly crap they can -_- my light elf mage ***... With a crit stun lance and equal buff as I have...****...thats all I have to say...I am almost in a constant state of shock...and on top of that they have revival...so god dang...I feel like I am nuking a god **** brick wall!!! All I have to say is that is f'n INSANE. It took me and a sorceror to kill the mutha...and no...it he wasn't like 20 lvls higher than me or her... Not too mention when he crits, which is like every third hit he hits me for over 1000 damage...lol...so he can drop me in four hits...I can't even drop him in that many nukes...
1. If a WL even gets into melee range against a SPS and a Sorc you must have lost your SLEEP button.
2. Even if a WL manages to sneak into melee range, Thunderstorm (let alone Crit stun lol @ that SA) will probably not land. Even if it does, it will probably break and then you can find your sleep button and heal yourself.
3. If a WL manages to sneak into melee range and somehow stuns you, and then begins criting you for 1k damage (mind you polearms have the LOWEST crit rate in the game I think) then the WL has BD and SE/Proph buffs on or is a WAY higher level than you are.
4. Revival is useless in PVP. By the time a WL is down to 10% health, you should kill him before Revival finishes firing.
5. Warlords, like most (all?) warriors, have extremely low Mdef. We are debuff puppets. Slow, sleep, surrender, nuke. Bam, one dead WL. A lvl 55 SPS sleeps me 1 out of every 2 tries, I am 10 lvls higher, and I am wearing NM. Go figgure.
Ok no offense to you Muad but the reason why he gets in range is because he doesn't sleep. With PP and SE buffs (I had the same) he dosen't sleep. I tried casting it about 20 times...I swear he wouldn't sleep...ever hear of lionheart? Works Well Use IT! Mages are easy to stun too...and crit stun works well. My alliance leader is a warlord and mobs are almost constantly stunned with his skill and the sa...
Anyway, mages are not overpowered in PvE. Oh yes we do more damage that smacking a mob, but our damage is directly linked to our MP, where urs is not. If you play your class properly, you would know that with VR on using shots you could go all day unless you are a tank type... Even with empower (which I absolutely need if I even think about duoing/soloing) my mp is drained beyond imagination. For those who are saying all these low level nukers are being uber solo, do they have some insane overenchanted weapon...cause it just doesn't add up!
PvE we are fine...there could even be improvements!
PvP we are overpowered to many classes a good % of them melee. We don't need nerfs, but instead melee needs skills that slow their opponents and m.def actually has to count towards something! THE END!!
PvE we are fine...there could even be improvements!
lol
its not about how long you can kill mobs its about how quickly you can kill the mobs
sure you have to rest once every 10 minuets while i go on soloing forever (with an OOP se)
but i guarantee in 1 hour you have killed more mobs in less time while spending less adena with less risk.
sure boost that
There is way more risk because we are very squishy...
But I guess in a way everyone thinks what they know is correct, this includes myself. I am only despensing what I know from playing a Spellsinger legitly for close to two years! Thats all, everyone can have their opinions, and I guess nobody can say they are right...we only know what we know from our experience. So if you feel you have more experience playing a Spellinger or nuker than I do...well then you may be right in your opinion, but arguing our point is futile...because ppl are always going think their view is valid and correct...because if they didn't they wouldnt be arguing it...lol
And in my past 6 months of watching my leader who is a gladiator solo in the catacombs with his SE killing mobs faster then I could possibly imagine to kill those mobs...I will say yes...some melee can still lvl faster than a nuker.
A melee can't go solo a cat unless they're way buffed up either (with the exception of a PW/TH who might be able to with lure).
At the level where a melee can comfortably solo in a cat, a nuker also can - I've seen both done. Of course it's more dangerous, then again the risks in nuker PvE are supposed to make up for their killspeed, but most nukers don't die that much more frequently than melees, if at all (ubermage/VEKRANDER, of course, has died a nigh legendary amount).
LOl you can say anything you want about my post but so far the post has turned out pretty good. I feel a lot of people have gotten things off there chest by posting here & personally my post wasn't something everyone had to agree with it was just an opinion! Thanks for posting guys :D
the damage that nukers diliver to mobs is fine.....
the damage we receive shouldn't be the same..
It is not. Surrendered (and we don't surrender most mobs) we reach 1/3 - 1/2 mob damage vs player with semi-decent M.Def (jewlery and level). 1/4 - 1/6 vs players with good M.Def.
Please stop with those 2k fairy tales. Vs a somewhat decent opponent (+-10 lvl range) with somewhat decent jewels (-1 grade) about 900 dmg is best we can hope for.
nukers are a little overpowered but mostly due to their range and cast speed. Archers are easily more powerful given they have proper buffs/songs/dances. One thing that sucks in this game, well not for SwS :), is that when you PvP nukers you NEED SwS. If they balanced the game so that it was an even fight without SwS songs it would mean ANY group with SwS songs would pwn the shiit out of nukers, making nukers an underpowered class which would be wrong for a DD class. SwS songs can half wind and fire nukes and lower dark nukes by a lot and thats not even including things like Resist buffs, Elemental Protection and Divine Protection which all look like they MIGHT be getting better in C5 as they may not cancel out with Surrenders. Make it fair to fight nukers without songs and I cannot imagine nukers even having a chance at beating that same group with SwS songs. The balance has to favor one side a little bit and if anyone has played this game since Prelude you would know nukers REALLY sucked until C2-C3 but even in C2 without easy access to tatoos they weren't a problem.
When a Gladiator (the hardest hitting heavy DD) can spam his skills on a mage at zero range, and the mage can stand and deal out more damage than the glad is, then we have a problem.
Gladiator is NOT a hardest hitting DD. He is a tank/DD hybrid. I think warriors used to be called "meatshields". Funny thing people started actually calling them DD, when they are not, IMO. Not full anyway.
Ok no offense to you Muad but the reason why he gets in range is because he doesn't sleep. With PP and SE buffs (I had the same) he dosen't sleep. I tried casting it about 20 times...I swear he wouldn't sleep...ever hear of lionheart? Works Well Use IT! Mages are easy to stun too...and crit stun works well. My alliance leader is a warlord and mobs are almost constantly stunned with his skill and the sa...
Anyway, mages are not overpowered in PvE. Oh yes we do more damage that smacking a mob, but our damage is directly linked to our MP, where urs is not. If you play your class properly, you would know that with VR on using shots you could go all day unless you are a tank type... Even with empower (which I absolutely need if I even think about duoing/soloing) my mp is drained beyond imagination. For those who are saying all these low level nukers are being uber solo, do they have some insane overenchanted weapon...cause it just doesn't add up!
PvE we are fine...there could even be improvements!
PvP we are overpowered to many classes a good % of them melee. We don't need nerfs, but instead melee needs skills that slow their opponents and m.def actually has to count towards something! THE END!!
Cancel the WL then. Lionheart is a 1 minute self buff that takes 10 minutes to recharge, so it isnt available most of the time. If you cancel it, there goes my resist sleep. NM armor with Lionheart I still get slept fairly easily, and all it takes is one to land. What is your setup? Do you use shots with Sleep? What wep are you using? If you are gimping yourself with horrible tats etc. then stop [923]ing about how a Warlord (the worst PVP class in the game) beats you. I use the Haste SA, crit stun is for C and B grade if you have adena to blow. I am in +5 NM light armor, Halberd +3 (Haste), with full unsealed Majestic jewels. I have +3 dex -1 con -2 str. And even with all this, BSPS sleeps from nukers 12 levels below me land at a decent rate.
This conversation has lost me!
Can we talk numbers?
Can someone pick a nuker class and share details of a specific range? All this talk about 'somewhat equal...+/- 10 levels....hahaha. In this game players aren't "equal" if they are THREE levels apart. And there is precious little EQUAL pvp out in the hunting grounds....pking hasn't been equal in my experience (lmao).
Could someone pick a lvl 48 nuking class (any) and share the details? I can toss in the DA stats. I KNOW what I get hit for by HIGHER mystics--they pk me fairly often--usually in 3-4 hits. Between my cp and hitpoints that's 4500+ gone in the time it takes 3 spells to land. Obviously I'm always going to believe from that experience that nukers are overpowered--perhaps falsely believe that!
So, anyone have the stats on nukers 'equal' to 48 DA they want to share?
Sorry, 64 here. But back at 48 my equipment and cast speed was so poor I don't think I could have done much in PvP. Well, against melee, maybe. Until my Destro friend borrowed a bow that is ;)
The problem isn't that Necros are so overpowered. They really aren't gods. Cancel is still overpowered. Archers are still overpowered. Overlords are still overpowered. There are a lot of overpowered classes, but you will only see Nerf necro threads cause Necro's are fotm, and a lot of people are playing them. If people still didn't see how powerful necros were, then we would be seeing mass, "Nerf sps/sorc" threads, or "Nerf HE" threads.
Just to clear something up, I hit people of roughly equal level and in the same jewel grade range. I never hit for over 1k damage unless I crit, or I have some crazy *** buff which I yet have to see :confused:. I am hitting you for over 1k damage then you have insufficient jewels, otherwise I am not.
I hit for usually about 600-800 damage dependant on class and level, but if they are in my grade range I rarely ever see it break 1k damage. Yes I know I crit for like 1.7k damage (pvp) or something like that, I have only seen myself crit on someone in PvP 5 times...(I may have missed one or two when I was in mass pvp) but that really isn't that much. I have probally critted mobs about 80 times magically and yes I even AoE...so that isn't much esspecially considering I am 60+....
So to clear up some confusion, we don't hit players for the same amount of damage we hit mobs. Considering my main nuke takes 64 MP...it is almost fitting. I do have +4 INT tatts too and this damage is with zerk and empower. If I have a BD dance well then I may be up there to about 900 and maybe...just possibly 1,000 (give or take 100 digits) damage...but still I RARELY ever see me hit for over 1k damage. I am still not saying that we still have a better advantage than you do, cause we do...but I just thought I would try to destroy these rumors that someone pulled outa their butt. There is no way in hell I crit for 4k damage or whatever. And there is no way in hell I do constant 1k damage to a player of equal lvl (that is someone within my own grade and within 7 levels).
Yes the bsps is being used...how lame do you think I am if I really wanna sleep a player...of course I am gonna use it. The only time i wouldn't is if I was playing around with someone...Oh, maybe I will make a replay of it...because apparantly you do not see how this is working...
Just to clear something up, I hit people of roughly equal level and in the same jewel grade range. I never hit for over 1k damage unless I crit, or I have some crazy *** buff which I yet have to see :confused:. I am hitting you for over 1k damage then you have insufficient jewels, otherwise I am not.
I hit for usually about 600-800 damage dependant on class and level, but if they are in my grade range I rarely ever see it break 1k damage. Yes I know I crit for like 1.7k damage (pvp) or something like that, I have only seen myself crit on someone in PvP 5 times...(I may have missed one or two when I was in mass pvp) but that really isn't that much. I have probally critted mobs about 80 times magically and yes I even AoE...so that isn't much esspecially considering I am 60+....
So to clear up some confusion, we don't hit players for the same amount of damage we hit mobs. Considering my main nuke takes 64 MP...it is almost fitting. I do have +4 INT tatts too and this damage is with zerk and empower. If I have a BD dance well then I may be up there to about 900 and maybe...just possibly 1,000 (give or take 100 digits) damage...but still I RARELY ever see me hit for over 1k damage. I am still not saying that we still have a better advantage than you do, cause we do...but I just thought I would try to destroy these rumors that someone pulled outa their butt. There is no way in hell I crit for 4k damage or whatever. And there is no way in hell I do constant 1k damage to a player of equal lvl (that is someone within my own grade and within 7 levels).
Yes the bsps is being used...how lame do you think I am if I really wanna sleep a player...of course I am gonna use it. The only time i wouldn't is if I was playing around with someone...Oh, maybe I will make a replay of it...because apparantly you do not see how this is working...
As a nuker myself I call BS. I Magic Crit without Wild Magic 1-3 times per buff round, double with Wildmagic 1 and triple with Wild Magic 2. I nuke average 1.2k damage on same level with appropriate jewelry. I have Majestic Jewels +3 and can get hit for 1.6k+ damage by Spellsingers simply 5 levels above me. Rather 800 damage factoring in TP. My Necromancer has greater survivability than my Plainswalker at level 76. Has more HP, 100~ less P.Def, more M.Def, not to mention I absorb 50% of the damage to my pet.
Bahamut2Lineage is a biased supporter of nukers. As such, he blatently stretches his facts into lies or rather, he just doesn't have the right nuker setup.
Haha I remember you Ventx. So you subbed a necro eh? Figures, I knew you whined too much before...and I am sorry I had to flame you like this but it was definately overdue, and you make judgements upon me. Careful around Ventx, he could turn this post into some crazy thing...which I do not want.
Biased eh? Hell I even agreed that melee need something to help take nukers out (ie. slow skill). I even agreed that m.def should have more effect. 1-3 times a buff round eh? Ok maybe I could crit once, but in PvP I rarely ever last 20 minutes to really see it... Maybe a necro could last more than 20 minutes...but not a SpS, Sorc, or SH...well I guess they could last 20 min if they were far away from pvp and not nuking anyway...lol...or in a super zerg party...
Anyway, that is how it sits. Period. That is what I have. My setup is the same as 90% of the nukers out there. I got the acumen gear, I got the tatts, I got the jewels, and I got the bsps with buffs. I do know that necros can practically one shot me tho...
Necros are also really good in PvE...cause they have a lot of things to keep there skills up there to constantly fight. They are a bit expensive tho with summons and the cursed bones, but these days adena doesn't seem to mean too much.
It is like I said though, ppl will stand by their opinions no matter what, if they feel they are correct. That is why I said that this is probally futile to argue. Just so everyone knows, Koreans see the imbalance too, and are whining practically as much as we are...so you may see something...but I just hope it is the right something...something that adds to the depth and fun of the game.
Vent must be quoting being hit without buffs by a buffed mage who is 5 levels higher...
7x spellsingers hit for 900-1000 on non-magic resist even leveled melee or 800ish against magic resist targets like other mages or knights with +3 unsealed majestic... this is using a +4 BoMT/acumen and 41INT (DC robes) buffed with Empower and Berz for the mage and Mdef buff of your choice (Elfie, Prophet, or Human knight) This does not count BD or Sws buffs, water resistance or 76+ spells/buffs etc.
Note this also does not count using Solar Flare which does about 50-100 more, nor does it count Surrender, Gloom or Vortex.
7x archers hit for 2k two out of three shots with moderate buffs... Why are you complaining about a buffed mage hitting an unbuffed target with a vortex spell for a piddly 1600?
Properly buffed archers in the same situation would hit you for 5k+... and hit plate classes for 1600+ through a shield block.
The fact of the matter is that mages and necros are dead come C5... there will be only the archer.
Necros are indeed overpowered in both PvE and PvP in C4.
Full powered x2 HP nukers are quite frankly wrong period.
This is being fixed (level your necros before C5...), but mages and summoners are dying with them.
No, I'm always buffed. Besides the point doesn't Spellsinger have Cancel so they can make it full buffed vs no buffs fight anyways.
And no... nukers aren't dead come C5. All nukers but Necromancer is nerfed. Necromancer gets AoE Gloom and the power of Corpse Burst is increased 2x. So now a Necromancer can AoE efficiently. Other nukers are nerfed because of clan passive buffs that increase resistance to elemental damage. There isn't an increase to dark resist though just a lvl 56 buff learned by a couple healers.
Why do you say Necro's and mages are dead come C5? I've heard of the nerf sleep and the healers are getting an erase spell but what else is going to happen to all the nukers out there?
>>Why do you say Necro's and mages are dead come C5?
Can you, please, reread Vent's post.
Since you are OP: nukers are BLANTANLY overpowered.
Here are a few facts for you:
* Casting speed as a result of:
* overpowered WIT stats adding hell a lot more than DEX
* overpowered acumen 15% no matter what - compared to melee speed SAs
* overpowered Sets (starting from NG!!), and finishing w/ a DC - on top of +2WIT AND 15% casting AND reduced interruption of casting ++ 7 running speed. effectively making a SH faster than a gladiator!
* double masteries - both mdef, pdef, dmg increases w/ skill level and masteries. melee dmg increases w/ masteries only, skills increase dmg too but not in pve
* completely overpowered tats: same setup for PvE and PvP. Melee needs different setup for PvE and PvP. On top of that free +CON.
* malaria
* free shield (which block a lot w/ blessed shield -- that is available in CHs too) and adv block makes it block more dmg
* blessed shots - making debuff always lands and virtually bypass mdef
----
if you need more just tell.
you knoiw what if yoiur not hitting for over 1k dammage to a mele and your 70+ its time to sell your valhalla il get some screenies of my tank getting blasted by my sh friend
btw " its over" lol what the hell is wrong with you your not rignt if nuklers coudent get buffs this would be perfect but buffs for nukers are retarted and tanks doi get slow skilsl now and will get a root in next cron but guess what you think its going to land ? WE HAVE NO M ATACK!!!!!!! i dont care what you say to give a class meles have no m atack becouse we onbly have 3 levels of wepon mastery so out low matack + your high mdef = no way we can slow you down
Make is a physical skill you dummy, Slow would be like 'Hitting someones vital points to make them slower' as a melee. Or perhaps something like a Glads Sonic Slash thing could make someone slow too "Winds you opponent" or whatever.
But a Sourcer and SH, which i've played myself, i can continueally fire off spells for hours on end... top nuker spells to..
^^ you can't be serious.
A Sorc has lvl 1 BTM, gives 22mp, takes 100+hp. A nuke costs 60+ mp (Lvl 6x). Even if you use BTM after each spell, you'll be out of mana bloody soon.
Not to say, if you BTM after each spell for crappy 22mp, you end up poor (Bsps toggle) or you'll get crazy (Bsps for spell, no Bsps for BTM).
Equal lvls, SH with Empower and SwS with JUST Spirit Barrier, Dark Vortex does roughly 1800. With Warding and Invocation buffs, roughly 900. With Divine Intervention, probably around 700. Also with songs, the Vortexes really do not land often, and when they fail they do lower damage. Death Spikes do maybe 400-500 damage to me with songs (NO Divine Protection). The average fighter DD class has about 10% less mdef than me as well. And when I did these particular screenshots the SH (well....Storm Screamer) didn't have Dance of Mystic (+20% matk, pretty much +10% damage)
Taraza, bear in mind SH has 2 vortexes (and WILL used them both), so either you can prepare for dark or wind. If wind vortex lands you are done, anyways.
Also I suppose the Screamer is not 78 to unleash some ***extra*** power (Not just dance of mystic).
Screamer didnt have high end buffs (just emp). Since you have S grade jewels did the screamer have S grade weapon?
Through out this post i see one constant thing the nuker is overpowered. When is the last time any one fought an unbuffed nuker. I ask you to try it. Mele any thing elese un buffed will own the crap out of the nuker. So mabey the fult lies no in the nuker being overpowered but in the buffs.
Like the post about the lvl 40 se and lvl 40 sh goin to dark omens and xping. the Sh could not no it with out the help of root wich the se gave. (ahh some one makes a point). So mabey the fact is the se's buffs are overpowered. Cuz in the end its Empower that does the differance. And mabey its accumen thats over powered.
But then we get into more fights about what other buffs are over powered. Like any dagger user with something above vr 3 can solo all day long and only need to stop for more ss.
I herd talk of a mele party of 30 getting whiped by a party of 9 mages. question what lvl werre the mele what leve were the mages. A DA(dark avenger) of close to same lvl range with his cat out does close to 700-900 damges a hit combined. Thats approx 5 hits each and thats with out the cat using beast ss combined provided i dont have bts or song of vitality on to kill me. The DA has what close to 7khp at upper lvl 60's the cat has 5k hp. No way im wining. People need to learn how to play their characters and quit whining. Not every class can be expected to win against a nuker. Some are going to loose. But the other key is dont go pvp a nuker 5-6 lvls out of you range and xpect to win. it aint gona happen.
funny you should mention specifically a DA vs nuker..
a lvl 67 DA vs a lvl 61 SH, who died... several times?
DA...
The cat don't mean squat when it's already dead, and the sad fact, the Nuker was using a C grade Homu with acumen which was +7.
Senario one was played out with the use of sleep.
Both the DA and cat were slepped instantly with sleeping cloud, next, the SH nuke the cat 3 times (cat never made it to the nuker). Lastly, a nuke followed by either sleep or another nuke, followed by sleep usually. In then end, the DA never managed to fire off a single spell/shot of any sort, and the cat never laid a paw on the sucker.
Next senario NO sleep was used (by request of the DA for more "fairness")
Instantly, the nuker took out the cat as soon as he could, cat never made it to the nuker obviously. DA started off with a few things such as hamstring. Nuker tried to keep his distance while nukering the DA, DA still couldn't really catch up to him much for a good wacking, so nailed UD and started Draining health and anything other ranged attack he could muster (hell even grab a bow and started fireing that off)..
In the end, even though it took several nukes, the SH still won with pretty much all of his HP to spare. SH being 6 ...count em, 6 Lvls lower, with a +7 Homu, using BSPS the entire time. I beleive he was also in Blue Wolf with +3 Black Ore Jewels. Shield i think was doom.
Both cases were tried with an without Buffs, The only difference buffs made was a much shorter fight.
I played a Sourcer, right up to lvl 65, Walk mode on, only self buffs and Acumen Pots, along with BSPS and Greater Healing potions. Not to mention a +3 Homu sword.
I could solo, indefinitly. Only using Prominence.
Yes you can burn through mana **** fast, but if i managed myself, and made **** sure to do BtM between EACH spell casted, PLUS about 2-3 times inbetween each mob (Basically i held down the BtM key all the time).
I think in 1 hour, i went through 20 GHPs?... not sure.. also carry the normal potions as sometimes a GHP isn't nessary. You walking regenerates MP quickly. Drain Corpes is also quite nice. Use 3 spells.. that's pretty much it.. (and don't turn BSPS on auto, only use it when you need it.. )
Both the DA and cat were slepped instantly with sleeping cloud, next, the SH nuke ....
hmmmm...... a SH using Sleeping cloud :) .... guess the lvl61 SH can do a little trick that my lvl62 SH can't :)
Just kidding.... I get the point :)
btw...... If anyone dont like playing a melee class due to the "overempowered" nuker stuff..... well then DON'T PLAY A MELEE...... instead you should play a NUKER.
:)
Anyway I also play a SH, but has just started up on my Gladiator wannabe, and I must admit its hell-a-lot-of-fun of cause thats in PvE not PVP :)
I think some people base nukers being overpowered on arena 1v1. anyone who can sleep you at will, will kill you. i was in arena the other day fighting a necro, sleep nuke sleep etc.but then i throw up lionheart and kill him in seconds. anyway the arena doesnt mean anything, and in that situation youre playing to the nukers strengths. 1 huge advantage nukers have is buffs, as they really only need SE buffs to be effective, and BD/sws buffs to be extremely effective (high end sword muse). as wher the melee/archers are going to need basic buffs +BD and sws bufs to be effective against nukers in pvp. IMO a high end archer with drak bow and focus > nuker in pvp. also too many nukers in a clan creates unbalance. nukers biggest weakness is terrain IMO, as with the right buffs some melee classes can kill them in a few hits. and given the terrain necro/cata for example, the melee have a huge advantage, in the open the nukers have the advantage. I think that its much easier to pvp with a nuker, and your mistakes dot showa much, i think a mle requires more startegy and higher lvls, and n actual pvp build. alot of melee have -con builds for pve, which leaves their con way too low. in pve i think an extremely high end melee/archer party can get xp faster than most duo-ing nukers, if they know how and where to be most effecient (learn for yourselves im not tellin ya lol). and also ive noticed on the dawn/dusk festivals(if yoiur server still does this lol) that everyone goes allnuker party thinking that nukers are the only ones that can get a high score. when a nukerparty gets 7500 in no limit festival, then lemme know.
Well there is something you have to consider to figure out if mages are overpowered.
Mages follow some sort of formula which states they can only attack when they have mana but their attacks hit very hard.
They also receive low HP but in turn deal out a lot of damage.
So one has to decide if this is fair or has the balance been thrown way out since there are MP rechargers, sleep spells, healers etc that can essentially allow these characters to attack nearly indefinately.
Also, low HP doesnt matter when someone cant get close enough to even hit you.
Thats true but I was owndering what if the tables were turned and it was the Prophet helping the melee char with Prophet buffs and sleeping/rooting the nuker would that give the advantage back to the melee chars? and do you think then they would win? My clan has a lot of melee chars and as a Prophet I would love to see them happen and test my theory out! :D
funny you should mention specifically a DA vs nuker..
a lvl 67 DA vs a lvl 61 SH, who died... several times?
DA...
The cat don't mean squat when it's already dead, and the sad fact, the Nuker was using a C grade Homu with acumen which was +7.
Senario one was played out with the use of sleep.
Both the DA and cat were slepped instantly with sleeping cloud, next, the SH nuke the cat 3 times (cat never made it to the nuker).
I dunno what kind of armor the DA was using in the one you refrered to but the on i pvpped a few times had on Full NM and was buffed with mental sheild wich = No sleeping sure as hell no chain sleeping. I cant help it that the DA who was pvping the sh your refering to did not get properly buffed or have the cat buffed or numberous otherthings.
i normaly nuke a tank with +3 a grade jewls surrended for around 1000-1300 dmg
magic barrier- 300 dmg -resist fire-200dmg song of warding -250 dmg (these are not accurate just rough estimates all i know is my damage goes down to about 400)
If people all quit rerolling to "nukers' and worked more on support classes (cuz thats what they are they are there for) you wouldnt see all the little girlies crying about overpowered nukers. My clan has 2 active SWS do you think i go around complining about nukers. I also have a few others clases not listed on my sig that I play i dont complain about nukers on them either. So instead of complaing on the forums every dam day about how nukers are overpowered recruit an sws or two, or rerole and make one. And if you say they are hard to level then the clan your in is gimp. beacuause if your not doing something to help all your clannies level no matter what their class is you shoud quit your clan.
Sorry if i made a mistake about the sleep cloud.. ment just sleep.. (although it may as well be sleep cloud)
Yes the DA had Majestic jewls.. Yes the DA had nightmare
They had SE buffs and pots, that it's
Cat was buffed up.
Sleep didn't always land, but didn't mean the DA could ever catch the sucker,
And frankly i've seen some all out few nukers vs various malee.
I don't say a SWS is useless, the warding helps a pile, but They are both hard to come by (i am a SWS as well) and they aren't always if ever available. And in the end, they target the SWS and drop him instantly. If they can, they instagate pvp by killing him before anyone realizes.
PVP requires quick smart decisions.... no intelligent person would neglect to nuke one of the most hindering class first, SWS is by far the first thing that'll be dropped, BD is usually never first because it's purely malee dances thrown up. So, followed by the SWS being dropped, usually it's ranged or healers next followed by the DDs if not tanks.
And i was only speaking of ONE instance.. i've seen so many battles that nukers thrive on reguardless. It pointless to argue, even if your main class is DD or tank or non nuker, frankly i don't care, and alot of others don't care, cause when a nuker zerg is on the loose, and that's frankly all you see if red nukers usually, your screwed period, point blank, and the odds will always be in there favor by a large margin... throw your SWS in for all i car, but your chances of surviving are marginally improved.