Im curious as to exactly how Aggro management works in Lineage 2. For example. I have a level 25 Elven Knight and the highest lvl of hate avilable to me trained. When im tanking raid bosses i can usually keep him on me by spamming hate, but not all the time. How much aggro does hate get for you, and does that aggro diminish over time? Does it stack and accumulate? Does the more damage i do to a mob or a raid bos while spamming hate effect my tanking enough to spend money on better weapons and have it be worth it? Is there any other skill i can use to keep my aggro high on the mobs list besides hate?
Thanks for the answers ahead of time, if anyone has a high lvl tank and can speak from experience id be very grateful.
hate has the effect of doing damage on a mob without actually doing any. when you hit the mob you accumulate hate.
so when a healer heals you too much, your hate lessens, and the mob aggroes the healer until you re-hate.
when someone outdamages you, they have transferred aggro onto them. hardest way to see the true effects of hate are with both a healer and another better DD then you. thats why raid parties are so difficult for the tank to keep hate. as a nuker i can tell you ive tanked more raid bopsses than some tanks my level.
thanks to the good healers out there ive done it more succussfully that way too.
So your saying all Hate or aggro in L2 is damage based? If me casing hate is = to x amount of damage done, then i guess having a better weapon is def worth the money when it comes to effectively tanking a boss. Good to know.
So your saying all Hate or aggro in L2 is damage based? If me casing hate is = to x amount of damage done, then i guess having a better weapon is def worth the money when it comes to effectively tanking a boss. Good to know.
if weapon has better Matk, yes. if its only a marginal imporvement, wait till next grade, or + it.
generally a tank with Empower winds up keeping hate much much better due to the high Matk.
Really? That is very odd; hate isn't a magic skill is it? You can still hate when silenced.
I haven't had any experience with empower and tanks but have always assumed it wouldn't help anything you could do while silenced. Are there any other physical skills that benefit from empower?
Really? That is very odd; hate isn't a magic skill is it? You can still hate when silenced.
I haven't had any experience with empower and tanks but have always assumed it wouldn't help anything you could do while silenced. Are there any other physical skills that benefit from empower?
odd. last time i tried it, hate was blocked by silence.
maybe changed since then. but i know hate works better with emp.
The hate skills are effected by silence, eh? Guess it's kind of hard to keep the monster's attention without being able to say "your mother"! Seriously though, the amount of hate you get when you use the skill is based of of your magic attack?
as a tank and archer i know a lot about hate and damage aggro. and at max level of hate its silly how easy it is to steal aggro with damage regardless if its from an archer or nuker. for raidbosses best bet is to spam hate and get recharges or risk losing aggro to a mage that crits. oh and only buff thats going to have affect on hate is haste for quicker use.
Hate isnt a magic skill
Hate cant be stopped with silence
Empower doesnt help hate at all...
Now that we have that out of the way.... with most raid bosses, I have to spam hate when Im tanking them on my TK. When I start loosing hate, I start doing hate/aoe hate spamming to keep more hate. Nukers will pull aggro pretty easily if you stop to swing your weapon too much.
Hate adds... and yes damage also generates hate. But this game is a bit wierd with hate. Last baium raid I was in, the archer in charge of kiting him smacked him around and then ran. I didnt see him stop running to shoot for the whole 30 minutes it took us to kill him. Im sure he did, I just didnt see it. The nukers sat there blasting him all this time, and he never, not once, turned to attack us. Archers have this wierd habbit of getting hate, even when there are characters that are generating more damage than the archer (like nukers). I dont know why.. they just do.
Not all hate is damage based. Effects like sleep generate a lot of hate. Damaging mobs which are in a group also generates hate amoungst the other members of a group. If you hate a mob in a group, other mobs in that group will also get aggro towards you. If you do an aoe skill effecting those mobs, you generate a huge amount of hate.
For some wierd reason, when Im tanking, I find it a lot easier to keep hate when Im in a full group. When Im in a small group with a few damage dealers, Ill frequently have to hate twice on a mob to keep aggro. When Im in a full group, I almost never do.
And since your playing a elven knight, if you do decide to go along the TK path, I'd like to suggest you use a sword as much as you can. Blunts are great for getting HP SAs... but in a normal, non-raid boss group, a sword generates a lot more aggro, meaning you save MP hating. I can keep hate in a full group just by getting two good swings at the mob before anyone else does. If I use a blunt though, I find this almost never works. Ive never played a human tank, but I can imagine they'd have the strength to use a blunt while keeping hate... but as an elf with low str and high dex, sword is the way to go.
Also note that there are some special cases where aggro is "fixed". For example when you go to Giants' Cave and hunt the Beast Lord groups there, whoever kills the Beast Lord WILL get aggro from the rest of the group, and you cannot hate these mobs away from that character.
And yes, it seems that classes which do a lot of critical hits (archers especially) get aggro more easily, even though other classes (nukers) might actually do more damage overall. Seems like critical hits produce extra aggro.
have a 70+ tank and like other have said, empower does not affect hate at all and silence doens't either since hate isn't magic.
As for people pulling aggro from the tank... Must be crappy tanks if they can't keep aggro off a nuker since keeping aggro over a nuker is so much easier than keeping aggro over a physicall DD like an archer. Think my hate skill currently has a power of around 2k, which doesn't sound too bad untill you realize an archer can freaking crit for upwards of around 5k per shot almost every single time they fire their freaking bow... Don't see how tanks are supposed to keep aggro over a class that can do an extra 3k dmg more than I get to do with my hate skill...
It actually isn't the one who kills the group mob's leader so much. The person who obtained the highest hate value against the leader will have the full agro of the mob. Once the leader is dead it's basically (but not quite) impossible to take agro back just like you said. Also, the person who gets the highest level of hate on the group will get the sole attention of the leader no matter who does what to the leader.
if weapon has better Matk, yes. if its only a marginal imporvement, wait till next grade, or + it.
generally a tank with Empower winds up keeping hate much much better due to the high Matk.
Absolutely false.
Like others said, Hate IS NOT a magical skill and IS NOT AFFECTED by empower.
EDIT: from my experience most aggro is dealt by crits of bows, they ALWAYS pull the mob out of tank. Debuffs get aggro too, i dont know how it is calculated tho, since sometimes heals get the aggro .. :confused:
And sometimes you just cannot figure out WHY somebody got aggro.
We were doing raids, and I was in the tank group. We actually were far too many healers on that raid, like two bishops and three SEs in the tank group. There was also a clannie of mine in the tank group, a high lvl bishop. Since we both were a bit low on mp from the previous boss and from buffing, we both did not heal/recharge much at all - I did maybe two recharges on the tank, and my clannie did maybe one heal on him. The other healers in the party did all the work. Still, when the boss was nearly dead, he suddenly ran from the tank, whacked me and killed me, and then ran over to my clannie bishop and killed him, too. Then the tank finally managed to hate him back, and the boss was killed.
No idea why he suddenly attacked me or my clannie. We both did absolutely NOTHING at that moment, no heal, no recharge. And the other healers in the tank party should have generated far more aggro. Weird. Looked like "random aggro" to me...
Absolutely false.
Like others said, Hate IS NOT a magical skill and IS NOT AFFECTED by empower.
Yes. If it is a magic skill - it needs a book to learn. Exceptions are skills you get for free at lvl 1.
(yes, that means that spoil also is not a magic skill and also is not affected by empower, even though I know some dwarves who swear that empower makes them get more spoils)
But this game is a bit wierd with hate. Last baium raid I was in, the archer in charge of kiting him smacked him around and then ran. I didnt see him stop running to shoot for the whole 30 minutes it took us to kill him.
Did Baium manage to hit him at leats once with a physical attack? Sometimes monsters will be hell bent on wacking just that one character that annoyed them, disregarding all the other annoying pests. Seen that happen on a variety of monsters, different types and random circumstances, too.
I'm a tank hunting with a pet. This is my experience in C4 tanking :
If i pull a mob with a damage spell, then debuff it, and start meleing it along with the pet, the mob will never pay attention to the pet.
If i pull a mob with a hate, then start meleing it along with the pet, the mob will sometime turn and begin attacking the pet.
for some other funny occurences :
It happened to me a couple of time that i was hunting when someone passing by aggroed a mob, but just continued running. As they pass in front of me, i usually hate the mob. On several occurences, after i hated that mob, and started meleing it, i saw the mob suddenly turning back and running after the person that first aggroed it, and this even if that person is no longer in the vicinity.
In fact, C4 hate is close to useless, i generate more aggro with debuffs.
I know your all saying empower doesnt effect hate, and i would tend to agree, except that today during one of my many 10+ Raid Boss tours, i tried a few encounters with and without emp on... it seems, atleast to me, that emp makes quite a bit of difference. In the raid boss fights where i didnt have emp, and i spammed hate like usuall near the end of the fight the boss got pulled off me onto a nuker. During fights where i had emp, not once did the boss leave me, not a single time.
Maybe coincidence, but what i SAW today does imply empower effects hate, or atleast the skill Agression. Ill do more trials like today when i do Rbs again, but i do agree hate is weird... ive seen a boss leave me and go to a afk character who didnt even touch it O_O... lol.
I know your all saying empower doesnt effect hate, and i would tend to agree, except that today during one of my many 10+ Raid Boss tours, i tried a few encounters with and without emp on... it seems, atleast to me, that emp makes quite a bit of difference. In the raid boss fights where i didnt have emp, and i spammed hate like usuall near the end of the fight the boss got pulled off me onto a nuker. During fights where i had emp, not once did the boss leave me, not a single time.
Maybe coincidence, but what i SAW today does imply empower effects hate, or atleast the skill Agression. Ill do more trials like today when i do Rbs again, but i do agree hate is weird... ive seen a boss leave me and go to a afk character who didnt even touch it O_O... lol.
well there are a few raid bosses that actually hate certain classes and will tend to aggro them more often. like as an example, the raid boss tauren thats just outside HV reallly hates nukers. youll find he often runs around hitting each nuker that damages him during the raid, even the healers. i have yet to see him stay on the tank for any length of time.
but i also stand by my previous statement; to me, this skill must be a magic skill because i have experienced it for myself as Oxygen also has stated. i SEEM (and it may numerically be falseproven) to draw more hate or if i may say so, i SEEM to keep hate longer with empower than without.
i have not YET seen evidences concrete to prove it wrong, nor yet have i seen evidences of any solid founding to back up what i have seen with my own eyes.
so please if youre going to disprove me, please show me why i am wrong instead of using the standard "im a lvl X tank and i say it doesnt affect hate" etc.
its really a mental thing. why would active skills get a boost from a magic skill buff? we already know a magic debuff(silence) doesnt change hate, why would a magic buff be different?
I know that some mobs now have a really good AI. They'll go after a healer that hasn't healed or a nuker that hasn't nuked.. I'm assuming because the AI has something programmed in such as "robe wearer.. weak.. kill the weak.."
I know your all saying empower doesnt effect hate, and i would tend to agree, except that today during one of my many 10+ Raid Boss tours, i tried a few encounters with and without emp on... it seems, atleast to me, that emp makes quite a bit of difference. In the raid boss fights where i didnt have emp, and i spammed hate like usuall near the end of the fight the boss got pulled off me onto a nuker. During fights where i had emp, not once did the boss leave me, not a single time.
Maybe coincidence, but what i SAW today does imply empower effects hate, or atleast the skill Agression. Ill do more trials like today when i do Rbs again, but i do agree hate is weird... ive seen a boss leave me and go to a afk character who didnt even touch it O_O... lol.
Placebo imo.
And just to not make this post seem like it's spam (cuz I hate spam as much as anyone else), if it not being an active skill isn't enough to show it doesn't depend on matk - maybe the fact that when you bsps, your hate doesn't consume your bsps is?
I've got a 75 TK and I still swear hate doesn't get affected by empower. O_O
I know your all saying empower doesnt effect hate, and i would tend to agree, except that today during one of my many 10+ Raid Boss tours, i tried a few encounters with and without emp on... it seems, atleast to me, that emp makes quite a bit of difference. In the raid boss fights where i didnt have emp, and i spammed hate like usuall near the end of the fight the boss got pulled off me onto a nuker. During fights where i had emp, not once did the boss leave me, not a single time.
Maybe coincidence, but what i SAW today does imply empower effects hate, or atleast the skill Agression. Ill do more trials like today when i do Rbs again, but i do agree hate is weird... ive seen a boss leave me and go to a afk character who didnt even touch it O_O... lol.
well there are a few raid bosses that actually hate certain classes and will tend to aggro them more often. like as an example, the raid boss tauren thats just outside HV reallly hates nukers. youll find he often runs around hitting each nuker that damages him during the raid, even the healers. i have yet to see him stay on the tank for any length of time.
but i also stand by my previous statement; to me, this skill must be a magic skill because i have experienced it for myself as Oxygen also has stated. i SEEM (and it may numerically be falseproven) to draw more hate or if i may say so, i SEEM to keep hate longer with empower than without.
i have not YET seen evidences concrete to prove it wrong, nor yet have i seen evidences of any solid founding to back up what i have seen with my own eyes.
so please if youre going to disprove me, please show me why i am wrong instead of using the standard "im a lvl X tank and i say it doesnt affect hate" etc.
show me numbers, statistics, anything concrete.
apart from jimmy hoffa.
Do you even have a single character that is a tank class?
Lets use some logic here...
1. Hate is a skill that is learned without the use of a book.
2. Skills that are learned without the use of a book are not magic skills.
3. Magic based buffs do not affect non-magic based skills.
4. If hate was a magic skill in any way shape or form silence would prevent you from using it, however it doesn't.
If you can't get those simple conpects through your head then you need to just not comment on something you know nothing about.