I'm dead serious.... What we need here is the clan leaders and the heros to start leading by example. They need to take a stand and clean up the server...
Or do you disagree with me? And everything is just find the way it is.
The question for me is how? how do we clean it up? pk? I used to have a perma red for killing bots. but soon as I log him in to clean up a bit im taken down by other players. they take my drops. they call me a liar when i say im hunting bots. so im not sure how were spose to clean it up. maybe not pk the bots but pk players repeatedly that we know are doing stuff there not supposed to be doing?. either way same result. you would be a target for other players trying to get there greasy little hands on your gear. what other methods of taking it back are there? petition a gm? lol. give me ideas and i will do them as soon as i get home tonight.
The clan leaders...the heros of the server. Need to take a stand and start leading by example. Only then can it work down to the players like you and i.
Show players that the "Right Path" is the only correct path in what is Easy and what is Right.
These in game structures of power can do little to pevent out of game wrongdoing. People don't need a "leader by example", they need to decide for themselves. It's difficult though, as Choch pointed out - I know many 'otherwisely nice' ebayers. All I can do is refuse their tag, which I did. But not everyone does. Not everyone wants the hard, rocky but rewarding ride in a legitimate clan, and not everyone wants it for themselves either.
As long as these people exist, they will find in game power - so don't expect them to clean up after themselves.
So what do we do here? It's easy to talk to talk to a clan leader about keeping his members on the path of right, but what about the clan leaders that are on the easy path themselfs.
NCSoft has do to its job and actually act versus bots and not only making random statements on how they fight bots. As long as there are obvious groups in nearly every cata/necro, as long as newbie areas are as infested by odd persons as it is now, as long as all player know the farmer clans on their server but rarely anything happens to them i'm not going to believe that NCSoft seriously makes any effort to remove these elements from the game. And if NCSoft isn't willing to do it, nobody can.
NCSoft has do to its job and actually act versus bots and not only making random statements on how they fight bots. As long as there are obvious groups in nearly every cata/necro, as long as newbie areas are as infested by odd persons as it is now, as long as all player know the farmer clans on their server but rarely anything happens to them i'm not going to believe that NCSoft seriously makes any effort to remove these elements from the game. And if NCSoft isn't willing to do it, nobody can.
I agree. a couple weeks ago i made a trip to dwarven village. I met a dwarf brand new to the game. this was the most annoyed player i have ever met. I asked him what was wrong and he was surprised that I talked to him. he told me he had been in this village for 2 days and everyone he has talked to had ignored him. I explained the situation to him. it didnt make him feel better. probably worse. I felt like the bad guy. I think NC needs to take the time to explain to new players what is going on. in a effort to boost his moral I gave him money and asked him to join me in giran and I would help him. of course i asked him to get some newbie buffs so I could see for sure that he was new. after that I took him for a leveling session in death pass. he seemed excited. but was still annoyed by our initial conversation. I added him to my friends and have yet to see him log in since that day.
Oh and splatter I have to say i admire your play style. you are probably my favorite player in the game even though i only know of you from FORUMS. good to see you stepping up to offer solutions.
Honestly Splatter, the best way to reclain the server, is to find likeminded people, and play with them. Adventurers Inc has all of 4 people left waiting for A grade helmets now, because we work hard together to get them for eachother (FINALLY got a Helmet recipe yesterday, Clan leader turned in the BP's, and got all 3 recs at once, helmet worked, boots worked so far).
Play with people that dont NEED to cheat to feel good about thier gameplay, and you will be much happier in the long run.
When I talk to some of the legit people, there is often a deep-running satisfaction with success that is only amplified by others' cheating.
On a small scale, I can notice it in myself also: When I hand in the manor for a friend or myself, I feel a jolt every time I manage to hand in a crop or buy a seed that I know is being targetted by Gaolifeng & Co. It's like a little victory every time - I'm especially happy during the handins are going straight to someone who rerolled her SpS into a WS. :)
That's right. We need to do something - not the heroes, and not the high level clan leaders, not anyone in particular, but anyone all in general. Your original request goes out not to yourself, as it should, but to a few who have no more responsibility than you.
Keep your own clan and where applicable alliance clean. Help other legitimate players by teaching them, encouraging them and cheering them on.
Well, out of an almost full clan, I only have doubts about TWO people. The rest, I KNOW where thier gear came from, since I farmed the mats and lowlevel raid bosses to help make that gear happen. When you make it a point to work together, to help eachother fully, to sacrifice your own time and energy to help the clan, you know how everyone got thier gear. We STILL go into GC now and then in our 70s to get A grade recipes for people, or to craft and crush for crystals. Soon enough we'll be working on S grade stuff for folks, and we'll get it the same way, we will work together, bust our butts, and enjoy the game along the way. I monitor the market, I watch whats going on, I look at other servers to see what the trends are there. I ask Korean friends to find out what is happening on Korean servers, what hot items are, what becomes rare with each new chronicle. I make sure that my clan leader has access to as much knowledge as possible to make her life easier. Others help her with buy and sell shops, or procuring key materials and other things she needs. She takes on this responsibility, and handles it wonderfully.
Splatter..you REALLY wanna know what a new player experiences? You SURE?
Cause I can tell ya. Started Jan 2006. Never played an mmorpg in my life (some Halo my son-in-law had).
You play alone. Silently. The few players you see non-tagged are alt twinks--they won't talk to you. The "hghghghgfk" folks run around constantly...they won't talk to you.
If you see ANYONE--any-freaking-one at all in graded gear with a real name and/or a tag....they pk you over and over.
You play for a few hours--get to lvl 10....have 25k accumulated and cant afford anything even in the starting area.
You run around alot aimlessly....nearly always alone. Few answer your questions. Players with a couple years of experience treat you pretty badly..."[Censored] NOOB!" "leave or die, noob"(on my server this = 1 alliance and practically defines them!)....funny stuff generally, but not when you're new.
You make a LOT of mistakes.
Oh, and every once in awhile a higher level player comes along who is nice and helpful....you really appeciate those folks.
I can easily imagine what the game is like for new people now....despite the bonuses and quest and play improvements it's a rather disappointing game world that confronts newbies.
For all that it's a beatiful game to experience--challenging--and more addictive than cocaine (lol).
I've made a point of helping new players as much as possible even though I'm sure not wealthy. My little way of salting the server with good deads in hopes that spirit will take root in others.
Your question raises a point that I felt should be illuminated.
omg that rocks. im gonna go make an EE right now. on topic: at level 26 for my first character, i was still using a falchion and no ss. i knew about the manor system, i had made lots of money, but i spent it on armor enchants because they were cheap due to the event that was going on. im just saying that even one noob mistake (lesson of the day: weapon THEN armor) can set you back a long ways and i probably wouldnt be still playing if it wasnt for some advice and help from a higher level character. and NCSoft knows the lowbie levels are lonely, thats why they put the new "goto giran" quests in, but it really doesnt work very well, these quests just fustrate and confuse new players more, and encourage them to beg for money for teleporting (a VERY bad habit at level 3). a better solution i think would be to add manor halls to the starter towns, just 1-3 per town to encourage some higher levels to be in these places to recieve new members and give the basic information they need to tackle the learning curve. also, this would provide clans with new members, win-win ftw.
I saw someone level 18 using a 12k weapon when I went to Talking Island for fun, it made me sooo sad, I gave that person a lot of money to upgrade.
I think I might just stay in a newbie town and help people, that was actually fun helping someone (but I cannot give each person I see 10k... I am lvl 37 and have not enough to go for C-grade, ohwell :D).
suggest we start from the bottom up. for the players taht actually CARE about helping noobs understand how to play, pick a noob village and a single day each week to make a lowbie character. answer questions, show noobs how to party, chat, websites, etc. teach them the manor system or how to powercycle weapons, or kiting, or macros. whatever you think is useful. lineage still has a growing new player base, but its up to the players that are already here to cultivate those seeds so that they dont become frustrated with the interface and quit. i probably help about 1 noob every 2 weeks on average, maybe it should be more, but ive been fairly consistent with it since about 3 months after i started and realized that i knew the basics pretty well. also, i have realized, giving equipment is not what new players really need. its much more satisfying for a new player if you teach them something, rather than just walking by, giveing them a composition bow, and saying "when you level, join my clan".serriously, i think most new players either play the game for a few days and quite because they didnt understand something (like how to kite mobs) or they ask the right person the right questions and become a true addict ^^
Well Splatter, your words make good sense and anyone who has seen my posts in the past will know my stance.
EULA violators are a problem, and my current view is that NCsoft may be investigating certain violators, but their methods are not efficient at all. This isn't rocket science, most of these violators are just so blatantly obvious and they don't bother hiding what they are. This is quite evident considering they even form clans, and lately alliances as well.
But the sad truth of the matter is this... as legitimate players, we are powerless against them. Because first of all, we earn what we get. They get their items and exp with no effort, deleveling or any exp loss doesn't hurt them. Even dropping items doesn't hurt that much in the long run because they don't earn anything.
The other reason we can't stop them, because they cheat. Their cheating methods make them far more dangerous than a normal player of equal level. On Hindemith, I've seen groups of them take on some of the most powerful alliances on the server and hold their own against far superior numbers/levels of legit players.
They grief legit clans trying to fight raid bosses, so they can steal the RB for themselves. They have no morals and no reason to ever stop, they are winning.
The bottom line, only NCsoft can do it. If they are indeed fighting these problems, their methods of investigating need to be completely rewritten. How about eliminating the red tape and beauracracy and simplify things a little? Spending 3 months investigating a violator is pointless. He's cheating now! One violating clan disappeared from Hindemith a month or 2 ago, but they had already established a sister clan which was not removed. Now at least 3 more clans have joined them.
I feel sorry for new players who join the game and come into this mess also. If I could, I would give them back the money they paid for this game myself.
Danielle--nice sentiment. But new players don't need that level of pity.
The game is incredibly fun--it's very challenging--and it's still very satisfying.
I'f I were to define my need from playing L2 as "I want to be at top levels and do what 2 year players are doing" then I would need to be pitied. That isn't going to happen.
But as I approach B-grade, and have a warsmith and scavi and Palus Knight and orc mystic for when I get bored--I feel good about playing L2 so far.
I have raided 60+ raid bosses with alliance, I have tanked dozens of rb's myself, been in two clans (happy with this one!), partied, solo'd, met in-game friends that I speak with regularly now and according to the game rules felt like I accomplished things.....that's been since the first of January 2006.
I think if you like the game there are still a lot of benefits for starting to play--even now.
I don't deserve to have my money refunded....the game has exceeded all my expectations!
Your concern for newbies is laudable....but not necessary. We'll survive and who knows? Maybe someday I'll be at lvl 60+ myself and get to participate in those other parts of the game..........if not? NCSoft and me are all square for the service they sold to me already.
Truth be told?....i'm kind of proud of myself for accomplishments thus far! Without a guide and going alone it has been a challenge of mistakes to even get 2 toons to C-grade! I owe a lot to frequent posters on this forum and to a few nice folks who have helped me from time to time--to my first clan and to my current clan.
When I get my DA to B-grade this month I'm going to feel GREAT about that! (although he'll be the poorest 52+ DA in the game...lmao)
It's not about pity because they can't be super uber gods immediately. It's because the cheaters etc... are not only an eyesore, but they interfere with people trying to play honestly and cause many other problems, including screwing up server economy. Some people do like to have a certain type of role playing immersion in a game. It kind of ruins the immersion when you can't even go to fight a few monsters without having dozens of characters with names like xxxzzzzqqq slaughtering every mob in the area faster than they respawn.
And as far as RBs go, I am in one of the biggest alliances on Hindemith, lately it's been quite a struggle to kill any raid boss without being griefed by the above mentioned cheaters. Some people don't consider it fun to have your entire raid group wiped out by griefers all the time.
I'm happy that you are accomplishing things in the game and good luck on whatever future achievements you try for. It is refreshing to see people with a positive outlook on the game.
There are many things I like about the game as well. I just feel that the game is not quite as good as it could be. I plan to keep playing for a while. But I also plan to keep fighting for change, to make the game better and more fun for the honest players.
I agree Splatter, although the worse the server economy gets, the more people will feel that the only way to win is buying their adena online.... then the cycle continues.
It's very hard for the hero's and clan leaders of the big clans to step up and show by example when most of them and there allies do the boting and the farming and even pking LOL one of our biggest clans on my server own majority of the bots & farmers so they enjoy that because it gives them money for clan halls & castles & etc... and they wont stop and unless all the little clans work together to take the big one out that would be extremely hard and impossible :(