The past few days have shown us that some players of consequence post on these boards. Therefore this now leads to the next issue we could take a closer a look at is IF the players Decisions of Consequence are publicly displayed here. (please note that this debate should in no include events created by employees of NCsoft)
What I mean by Decisions of Consequence is for example:
1) Do large alliances declare war on each other and openly air their respective grievances via this official forums board?
2) Do clans publicly surrender here?
3) Do players post influencial commentary on how ingame conflicts are progressing on this forum?
If you can think of other such consequential decisions made out of game please post them so I add them to my list.
And this thread also begs the question ... If not, why?
The past few days have shown us that some players of consequence post on these boards. Therefore this now leads to the next issue we could take a closer a look at is IF the players Decisions of Consequence are publicly displayed here. (please note that this debate should in no include events created by employees of NCsoft)
What I mean by Decisions of Consequence is for example:
1) Do large alliances declare war on each other and openly air their respective grievances via this official forums board?
2) Do clans publicly surrender here?
3) Do players post influencial commentary on how ingame conflicts are progressing on this forum?
most info/flames/hate/love talk between clans are discussed on other forum (http://www.l2guru.com/forum/) not on the official forum. somehow the official forum isnt atractive enough for that
And this thread also begs the question ... If not, why?
All three topics that you posted are very often leading to flame wars, which would get the associated threads deleted on these boards.
That is probably the reason, why they are not posted here.
If however such threads were possible without flames and curses, then it might be a true enrichment to these boards.
On the other hand, this board is mainly about general discussion, players questions and suggestions... which is obvious by those three boards being the top boards, with the server specific boards being far lower on the list.... and so far it works well with it.
That's what I was pointing out. It's possible to have server discussions here - but of course that takes a certain kind of people, and those people just aren't in the top tier of most servers' power.
Do clans ever surrender on forums? We tend to handle such things in game. It's much easier (faster) to communicate there.
As mentioned, the Hindemith forum is quite active. I read a bit of it from time to time. Good reading sometimes. But I think people generally prefer to excersise their right to flame on other forums. Whatever floats your boat.
So are you trying to say these boards are not relavent because the top 10% of the servers don't come on here and flame each other endlessly.
If they did it would be another waisted board of irevelent information. I for one could care less who griefed who. Who's alliance is better than who's or who can pwn who. All that is irevelent to me.
I come here to learn about the game not who can flame better than the last guy.
The past few days have shown us that some players of consequence post on these boards. Therefore this now leads to the next issue we could take a closer a look at is IF the players Decisions of Consequence are publicly displayed here. (please note that this debate should in no include events created by employees of NCsoft)
What I mean by Decisions of Consequence is for example:
1) Do large alliances declare war on each other and openly air their respective grievances via this official forums board?
2) Do clans publicly surrender here?
3) Do players post influencial commentary on how ingame conflicts are progressing on this forum?
If you can think of other such consequential decisions made out of game please post them so I add them to my list.
And this thread also begs the question ... If not, why?
its simple, because people arent free to post their thoughts here
its simple, because people arent free to post their thoughts here
They sure are... within the limits of the house rules.
It is easily possible to talk about all kind of server politics as mentioned in the OP without ever coming in conflict with the board rules.
You know, it is not really necessary to have 10x [censored] in your message, to say something.
The declaration of war to another clan or alliance could be just that. A declaration of war. There is no need to degrade the others with words and accusations, which would rightfully be moderated here.
As for "players of consequences"...
I would like to add the following three types:
4: Players who give detailed bug reports.
5: Players who give reasonable suggestions for changes, in the attempt to help evolve this game for the better.
6: Players who answer the questions of other players to help them out.
These 3 types do have as much "consequence" to me, as if Ally A declared war on Ally B on my server. Oh, and these three types (4-6) are indeed very present on this board.
when you have a genuine concern about the game and been trying to get help from support, staff, gm's ect... then trying to come to the official boards seeking for recognition... somebody to acknowledge the problem...
but the response you get is the opposite.. you get ignored, deleted, banned... ect...
therefore the top players who automatically know ALOT about the game and can contribute alot to these boards refuse to come or post here.
Not saying that lowerlvl's arn't "as good" or know "less"...
The past few days have shown us that some players of consequence post on these boards. Therefore this now leads to the next issue we could take a closer a look at is IF the players Decisions of Consequence are publicly displayed here. (please note that this debate should in no include events created by employees of NCsoft)
What I mean by Decisions of Consequence is for example:
1) Do large alliances declare war on each other and openly air their respective grievances via this official forums board?
2) Do clans publicly surrender here?
3) Do players post influencial commentary on how ingame conflicts are progressing on this forum?
If you can think of other such consequential decisions made out of game please post them so I add them to my list.
And this thread also begs the question ... If not, why?
its simple, because people arent free to post their thoughts here
Yeah, I have to agree with him. Flaming goes a bit far, but the offical forums are so censored that even discussions that are in no way flame related get locked or deleted, especially those that criticize or comment on current in game problems, even technical ones not just in game EULA violaters.
its simple, because people arent free to post their thoughts here
They sure are... within the limits of the house rules.
It is easily possible to talk about all kind of server politics as mentioned in tOP whe ithout ever coming in conflict with the board rules.
You know, it is not really necessary to have 10x [censored] in your message, to say something.
The declaration of war to another clan or alliance could be just that. A declaration of war. There is no need to degrade the others with words and accusations, which would rightfully be moderated here.
As for "players of consequences"...
I would like to add the following three types:
4: Players who give detailed bug reports.
5: Players who give reasonable suggestions for changes, in the attempt to help evolve this game for the better.
6: Players who answer the questions of other players to help them out.
These 3 types do have as much "consequence" to me, as if Ally A declared war on Ally B on my server. Oh, and these three types (4-6) are indeed very present on this board.
Consequent Kitten
and the kain server has chosen that those limits are too strict, so you wont see anything of actual consequence of the kain server posted in the kain section. if you need info on kain go here http://l2guru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=13, thats where the community is
Wouldn't "we get deleted and ignored" be more appropriate than "you"? You implies the general public, but it's in fact only a small, select group of people that had this happen - and then only for childish stubbornness (if that's even a word).
High levels are of no greater importance than the way they set up the manor and taxes - quite an important job (and I can see on Kain that the right people aren't doing it, or at least when I last went to check they weren't), admittedly, but that's it.
Any low level player who sticks around Gludin or one of the starter towns and helps newbies out, anyone writing guides (Jute) or doing bug reports etc. has a greater impact on the game than those few high level clans.
Wouldn't "we get deleted and ignored" be more appropriate than "you"? You implies the general public, but it's in fact only a small, select group of people that had this happen - and then only for childish stubbornness (if that's even a word).
High levels are of no greater importance than the way they set up the manor and taxes - quite an important job (and I can see on Kain that the right people aren't doing it, or at least when I last went to check they weren't), admittedly, but that's it.
Any low level player who sticks around Gludin or one of the starter towns and helps newbies out, anyone writing guides (Jute) or doing bug reports etc. has a greater impact on the game than those few high level clans.
rofl. ignorance is bliss!
I'm really having a hard time to answer to you without this coming out as a flame or laughing at you but seriously.. anything I will say will come out like that lol.
read what you just typed. you and miss board kitten are hilarious... I'm trying to find out if you are both brainwashed or simply don't play this game... "a select few"... what server you play on... I dunno but the server I play on has more then 10% lvl75+ (not including the farmers, those weird named people you refuse to acknowledge)
and calling the biggest problem in this game, farmers, botters, ect.. childish stuborness... ROFL you my friend need to get ingame and start playing. Because you seriously know jack **** about this game.
when you have a genuine concern about the game and been trying to get help from support, staff, gm's ect... then trying to come to the official boards seeking for recognition... somebody to acknowledge the problem...
but the response you get is the opposite.. you get ignored, deleted, banned... ect...
therefore the top players who automatically know ALOT about the game and can contribute alot to these boards refuse to come or post here.
Not saying that lowerlvl's arn't "as good" or know "less"...
LOL. You just know everything don't you?
When I come here, I come here cause this is the only site that is not sensored out by my company.
I'd rather be on [censored] or Blah, however, even there sometimes the profanity gets to me.
Then again, I rarely go to a forums board of anykind when I'm home. I'd rather be in the game.
By the way, why is this thread still alive? someone kill it. Lol.
when you have a genuine concern about the game and been trying to get help from support, staff, gm's ect... then trying to come to the official boards seeking for recognition... somebody to acknowledge the problem...
but the response you get is the opposite.. you get ignored, deleted, banned... ect...
therefore the top players who automatically know ALOT about the game and can contribute alot to these boards refuse to come or post here.
Not saying that lowerlvl's arn't "as good" or know "less"...
LOL. You just know everything don't you?
When I come here, I come here cause this is the only site that is not sensored out by my company.
I'd rather be on [censored] or Blah, however, even there sometimes the profanity gets to me.
Then again, I rarely go to a forums board of anykind when I'm home. I'd rather be in the game.
By the way, why is this thread still alive? someone kill it. Lol.
That makes 90% lower than level 75 by your own numbers - you see the problem?
And no, complaining about farmers and botters is not childish or stubborn. I do it myself quite a bit (although I am childish and stubborn, so that's no frame of reference). But of course you still don't understand that tone makes a difference. You still don't feel the forum ban for spamming some of you received for spamming is justified despite even the dozen threads that I saw.
I don't usually say this, but - please grow up.
NCSoft is doing a **** sucky job of many things, but the things you're blaming them for right now (and that doesn't mean controlling the botters or farmers), you brought down on yourself.
That makes 90% lower than level 75 by your own numbers - you see the problem?
And no, complaining about farmers and botters is not childish or stubborn. I do it myself quite a bit (although I am childish and stubborn, so that's no frame of reference). But of course you still don't understand that tone makes a difference. You still don't feel the forum ban for spamming some of you received for spamming is justified despite even the dozen threads that I saw.
I don't usually say this, but - please grow up.
NCSoft is doing a **** sucky job of many things, but the things you're blaming them for right now (and that doesn't mean controlling the botters or farmers), you brought down on yourself.
if you would have read only 1 of those "letters" people tried to post here you would see they were in the correct "tone"
OH WAIT...
you couldn't have.. they where all deleted within 1 minute... and the poeple who posted then were banned... there is your problem.
and then you are surprised people come here being frustrated and have an angry "tone"?
-at LEAST 10%
and if you want to be so persistant in this"part of the community" ok let's go at it alltho this isn't the problem...
lets take L2.BLAH for example... how many more visitors, forum members, clicks, posters do they have comparing to official boards? 3 times? If so it looks to me the majority of the community is located there.
but that wasn't the point, thatssomethign you just love to bring up.
So i guess looking at stats "we" are in the majority?
EDIT: If they let the first post ever made my GS live.. there would never been any "spamming". and postign something 2 times is hardly spamming... banning those people for spamming is called in the outside world "shutting people up"
There were no letters posted, only one letter - over and over. That in and out of itself is already bad tone. If they delete it once, they will not stop deleting it just because you post the same thing again.
you couldn't have.. they where all deleted within 1 minute... and the poeple who posted then were banned... there is your problem.
And I did read the letter several times after it was posted here (the threads lived quite a while), and I did read it long before it was posted here - namely when Savage was first gathering up people for this little stunt on blah.
It was most certainly of an inappropriate tone.
The letter was posted and /signed by all involved at least around a dozen times - yes, that is spamming.
As for the numbers - I haven't checked them. I know a smaller quantity of people post here, but coincidentally the average joe is more likely to come here than to blah, since it is the official page.
Since you criticize me by name, Mr. illaaa, I want to set a few points straight...
Your precious letter is currently posted on the board, that I am administrator of. That site is listed as an official fansite on these boards, which l2blah and l2or are not.
You seem to be one of those guys, who think, that anyone below lvl 75 got ansolutely no understanding for the game and thus got no say in any matter concerning the game.
How many suggestions have your 75-bunch made ?
How many times do you answer questions of newbies ?
Do not belittle us (the "board crew"), for the time we spend on the boards. I am currently at work and I can only access the boards and not the game obviously. I use this time to read up on discussions and think about suggestions, which would benefit the game and my own class. I also sometimes make suggestions for classes, that I do not even play or support suggestions that only affect classes, that I do not play.
That all does not mean anything to you, fine, so be it.
But if you got no respect for the board community, then do not expect us, to see your 75-crew as the center of the lineage universe.
I see that botters and farmers are a problem. You see that too... And you are the co-leader of a major alliance I heard... Well, how about you read my "Hen or egg" thread and comment on it ?
Can you honestly say, that in your alliance, there is no player, who did ebay ?
If there are players in your alliance, that did ebay, and you know it and you not kick them out of the clan and alliance and PK them back to lvl 4, than you Sir, are a hypocrit.
On one hand, you blame NCsoft for not doing there job, while on the other hand it is the playerbase themselve, who is creating a market for the farmers.
All those bots do not earn money by being in game. They earn money by selling adena. And that adena is bought be the same players, who are complaining about the farmers being there.
So next time, you write an open letter about how bad the farmers are and how NCsoft is not doing their job, you might want to look around yourself and see, where the problem originates from.
Your precious letter is currently posted on the board, that I am administrator of.
good.
That site is listed as an official fansite on these boards, which l2blah
why not..? lol i'm not even gonna go into that. I'll leave this one for Billy.
and l2or are not.
good.
You seem to be one of those guys, who think, that anyone below lvl 75 got ansolutely no understanding for the game and thus got no say in any matter concerning the game.
you seem wrong. If you would know how much of my personal earned adena I have spend to equip or help equip lower lvl members in my alliance who were not as fortunate as I or did not have as much playtime as I did. you would seem different.
How many suggestions have your 75-bunch made ?
ALOT!
How many times do you answer questions of newbies ?
countless.
Do not belittle us (the "board crew"), for the time we spend on the boards.
It is not that what I belittle, but the persistance you seem to have in defending this topic for NC.
I am currently at work and I can only access the boards and not the game obviously. I use this time to read up on discussions and think about suggestions
I use this time to work. And I aswer you during my lunchbreak ;)
...which would benefit the game and my own class. I also sometimes make suggestions for classes, that I do not even play or support suggestions that only affect classes, that I do not play.
I truely hope NC will ever listen to one of those suggestions you and others make. keep your faith.
I see that botters and farmers are a problem. You see that too... And you are the co-leader of a major alliance I heard... Well, how about you read my "Hen or egg" thread and comment on it ?
I believe I did.. but I will check it again.
Can you honestly say, that in your alliance, there is no player, who did ebay ?
If there are players in your alliance, that did ebay, and you know it and you not kick them out of the clan and alliance and PK them back to lvl 4, than you Sir, are a hypocrit.
I personally am responsable or partially at least for one of our ex allied clans to leave our alliance because they harbored a few ebayers who openly spoke about it on TS. They refused to dismiss them.. so I started acting like a drama queen to get rid of them.
Does my ally have ebayers.. I'm sure it does... but there is no way I can tell that.. and I do not know 1 that did for sure. cause the people I play with daily are or seem to be extremely legit.
On one hand, you blame NCsoft for not doing there job, while on the other hand it is the playerbase themselve, who is creating a market for the farmers.
All those bots do not earn money by being in game. They earn money by selling adena. And that adena is bought be the same players, who are complaining about the farmers being there.
I'm sure that most of the "complainers" are not ebayers themselves... Seeing at the prices... you would need to spend what? 200 USD for like 100mil??? thats a bit too much for me tbh.. for a game that already costs 15 USD a month.
So next time, you write an open letter about how bad the farmers are and how NCsoft is not doing their job, you might want to look around yourself and see, where the problem originates from.
the problem originates indeed from the demand (buyers) but the problem continues cause of this mentality.
you seem wrong. If you would know how much of my personal earned adena I have spend to equip or help equip lower lvl members in my alliance who were not as fortunate as I or did not have as much playtime as I did. you would seem different.
Seem means something else altogether... but ... aight. o_O
You have 20 posts - so no, you did not make countless suggestions. You made a single one, and that was not even your own, it was Savage's.
You can phantasise about things in game as much as you like - the devs won't see unless it gets discussed here.
You coincidentally don't know what kind of suggestions Schmuse has made or does make, so maybe you shouldn't be so ready to dismiss them.
Nobody is saying NCSoft does perfectly.
The forums are certainly not the most open, and the lack of communication from NCSoft is more than just a little frustrating. It gives me drive to try harder at my studying so I may one day be in the position to do it better.
However, pretending that any voice of criticism gets deleted because having a major drama queen fit and reposting the same thing over and over after it was rejected once instead of rewriting it doesn't really help make you look good.
The way you blink out peoples' attitudes, opinions and actual posts makes me think that you're the one who is brainwashed, if anyone at all.
you seem wrong. If you would know how much of my personal earned adena I have spend to equip or help equip lower lvl members in my alliance who were not as fortunate as I or did not have as much playtime as I did. you would seem different.
Seem means something else altogether... but ... aight. o_O
You have 20 posts - so no, you did not make countless suggestions. You made a single one, and that was not even your own, it was Savage's.
You can phantasise about things in game as much as you like - the devs won't see unless it gets discussed here.
You coincidentally don't know what kind of suggestions Schmuse has made or does make, so maybe you shouldn't be so ready to dismiss them.
Nobody is saying NCSoft does perfectly.
The forums are certainly not the most open, and the lack of communication from NCSoft is more than just a little frustrating. It gives me drive to try harder at my studying so I may one day be in the position to do it better.
However, pretending that any voice of criticism gets deleted because having a major drama queen fit and reposting the same thing over and over after it was rejected once instead of rewriting it doesn't really help make you look good.
The way you blink out peoples' attitudes, opinions and actual posts makes me think that you're the one who is brainwashed, if anyone at all.
excuse me english is not my native language.
however, GRANDsavage is my alliance leader HOHO... So i'm sure I have had a certain influence on his idea. And This is more of an idea from "the people" at least the ones that care and participate in fighting the problem.
but I give up.. i'm really not match for you pro forumwarriors :D
illaaa, you always make your posts sound, as if only the recent elpy swarm was caring for the problem.
You know, we (the "board warriors") spend a bit more time on these boards than you guys all together and we know of this problem for a while longer.
We were posting about these problems with farmers, when it was not a banned topic. We did not like the topic getting blacklisted either... or rather focused on that one thread.
We did however learn to voice our opinions and concerns within the bounds of the board rules and as such, we are hardly getting our own threads or posts deleted.
Your crew came here, posted a letter which includes more than a bit of "do this or we quit" attitude, saying nothing new about the topic in total. There is no new information in your letter. There is no explanation, WHAT NCsoft should do.
I said that before in another thread:
"If NCsoft would ban without proper investigation and there would be only a 5% chance, that I get innocently banned along with the bad guys, then I do not want it."
Maline and me are not blaming your message, but we blame the messenger and the way they message was delivered.
You acted like hooligans, where there is need for a diplomat. And sending in another and another and another suicide-attacker was not helping your cause in any way.
If you have a common goal with people, which they have agreed is a common goal, by the way, why oh why do you persist in trying to make them enemies?
Don't mistake the German kitten for a lightweight. Her, Maline and a dozen other people here are not NCSoft 'brown nosers'. They complain loud and long about numerous things.
This is the true root of the entire problem. The players in NA cling to their elitism and will not even unite for a common goal that is important to them all.
Apparently it's not important enough to put aside your differences and work together to try to accomplish something. There are countless people here who can help you get a point across in a manner palatable enough to the admins to keep the topic from being locked. Why not use their knowledge instead of belittling it?
Schmusekatze, Maline, Splatter, Darkmotion, SirEl, LordChaos and at least a dozen others here have complained over and over about issues and if you let them, can help you.
So how about we all call a truce? Or are you too stuck on trying to PK anyone associated with the official boards that you can't see your way to getting some decent help with an important cause?
English isn't my native language either - nor Schmuse's by the way. ;) When I don't know a word, I usually look it up.
As Schmuse pointed out, you are not the first to protest about this problem. You are just the first (well, the second if we count finalELF I guess) to do it with such a self-righteous attitude.
If you're trying to make your arguement look any less weak by calling us board warriors, you fail - these are the boards. You made them a worse place for all of us with your little hissy fit. Implying "I'd own you in game" on the forums is just as idiotic as implying "I'd own you on the forums" would be in game.
ETA: Jute, this goal does not need uniting against. NCSoft knows that everyone hates the farmers and wants them gone, NCSoft knows that people are quitting for it (hey, they have the numbers), and NCSoft is doing whatever they can or want to under the circumstances.
All we can do is throw out ideas that might make their job easier, but that's nigh impossible if they don't even tell us what their problem is (lack of staff? Bad policies? ).
If you have a common goal with people, which they have agreed is a common goal, by the way, why oh why do you persist in trying to make them enemies?
Don't mistake the German kitten for a lightweight. Her, Maline and a dozen other people here are not NCSoft 'brown nosers'. They complain loud and long about numerous things.
This is the true root of the entire problem. The players in NA cling to their elitism and will not even unite for a common goal that is important to them all.
Apparently it's not important enough to put aside your differences and work together to try to accomplish something. There are countless people here who can help you get a point across in a manner palatable enough to the admins to keep the topic from being locked. Why not use their knowledge instead of belittling it?
Schmusekatze, Maline, Darkmotion, SirEl, LordChaos and at least a dozen others here have complained over and over about issues and if you let them, can help you.
So how about we all call a truce? Or are you too stuck on trying to PK anyone associated with the official boards that you can't see your way to getting some decent help with an important cause?
elitism...........................comon...
We bump into a fully buffed baium and his angels (you)..
and it's you holding on to your little elitist forum where we are not welcome... don't turn it around on us. elpy this and elpy that...
Nobody cares about your low post count - two of the people I respect most (although I'm sure it's not mutual) on here have low post counts: Masa_Paladin and Aleena. They're barely out of the elpy shoes themselves.
It's the way you came here pretending to be the only ones who cared to make a complaint, when you hadn't twitched a finger at NCSoft before, the way you spammed Savage's post as if nothing could possibly be wrong with it, and took off in a huff assuming NCSoft deleted everything on the subject that got people growling at you, not your post count.
PS: I used "imply" for a reason: Calling someone a board warrior (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=board+warrior) implies that they are actually weak when it comes to the game, and I was pointing out how ludicrious the accusation is to make on a board. :p
and it's you holding on to your little elitist forum where we are not welcome
I have said countless times, that a high post count does not mean anythig to me. A single good post can make up for more respect than 1500 spam posts.
However the "swarm of comlpaints" was not made up of good posts. Apart from the first post with the letter, it was spamming, spamming and more spamming...
There IS a rule against just bumping a thread with "/signed" you know ?
I will admit, that I had not deleted the first initial letter, but if you would do such a spam festival on my boards, I would sure as hell, delete the threads and ban the users.
We are not calling this board elitist. But we also refuse to see only the in game top 10% as "people of consequence" as you worded it.
New players are always welcomes here. Old players, which come new to the boards are also welcome. It is the way that you make your entrace, that decides, if you get welcomes or are met with a shotgun bullet.
If you're working in a large company and they did forget to pay your salary, you got all the reason to be upset, but if you burst into the CEOs office sit on his desk and call him names, then you will get removed, no matter if your cause is justified or not.
Once again, you entered like Hooligans, when you should have come as Diplomats.
On the boards, we all are the same level. There is no nuker, there is no tank, there are no grades. Level means nothing here. Only your words matter and the way you put them together.
Only your words matter and the way you put them together.
This is something that actually transcends the boards into the game. Too often, people are willing to escalate a problem into the stratosphere rather than sit down and talk it out.
What I am seeing here is little more than a reproduction of what I see in the game. It doesn't come as a surprise, I might add.
And I'm behind those who are saying "Hey, time to calm down and talk things through."
I am a negotiator. Words have all the power in the world.
I post on blah, and I post here... I have a different name on blah... the reason is that I see these forums for talking about the game itself. Asking question and giveing suggestions. If I ever had a problem with getting the game to run, I would ask here and not on blah. If I want to post a ss of the last siege and and flame my enemies, I'll post on blah.
The two forums are used for two different thing imo. There is nothing wrong with either. Personally I love the freedom blah provides for trashtalking those people I don't like. It is also nice to ask a question without being insulted.
Nobody cares about your low post count - two of the people I respect most (although I'm sure it's not mutual) on here have low post counts: Masa_Paladin and Aleena. They're barely out of the elpy shoes themselves.
It's the way you came here pretending to be the only ones who cared to make a complaint, when you hadn't twitched a finger at NCSoft before, the way you spammed Savage's post as if nothing could possibly be wrong with it, and took off in a huff assuming NCSoft deleted everything on the subject that got people growling at you, not your post count.
PS: I used "imply" for a reason: Calling someone a board warrior (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=board+warrior) implies that they are actually weak when it comes to the game, and I was pointing out how ludicrious the accusation is to make on a board. :p
board - warrior --> warrior on the boards... If you make it into they are weak in the game.. thats your problem.
and for twitching a finger at NC... ffs.. I used every way NC provides and they are all USELESS. thats why we come here as a last resort.
and it's you holding on to your little elitist forum where we are not welcome... don't turn it around on us. elpy this and elpy that...
I make it a general point not to argue with people for the sake of arguing. I also don't argue with people who will not budge and only can see their point as right. It serves no purpose.
I called no one elpy. I belittled no one. I, in fact, exhorted BOTH sides, to work together.
How many suggestions have your 75-bunch made ?
How many times do you answer questions of newbies ?
Plenty. Id say around 750 of my posts are based on suggestions (even DM has picked up that - see sig :P). Atleast 300 comes from friends who have suggested it ingame but who are banned/does not post on forums/doesnt even know about the suggestion forum/just a whim idea etc.
Have I been heard? I don't know, NCsoft has never replied on any one but one, confirming we will not get European/scandinavian letters making it hard for me and my friends to communicate over PM/MsN ingame.
And I have atleast spent over 1 million on NG equipment/given out money for beginners, and answered on some posts here, on blah and ingame (ingame mostly, thats where the few beginners are). I have buffed, and even helped someone go from 1 to 20 in a day. I help my friends ingame, and if they Ebay, I would never know but I doubt it because I have never seen them suddenly get money unless a friend of us quitted because of bots/problems and I know that for sure. If I found one of them Ebaying, I would be very sad and ask why.. Althought I have to say myself, I have been tempted and I can understand why with the prices that exist because of farmers/game mechanisms I have tried to change giving suggestions I doubt NCsoft even read. In my 2 years of play, I have only seen two suggestions get into the game: Fishing and C5s new skill shortcut bar lock (thanks for Hellrose for translating). And the fishing is even not as we have suggested it..
Can you honestly say, that in your alliance, there is no player, who did ebay ?
Again, hard to say, but if they had, it would be kinda obvious for me.. I have personally been there for many of the crafts my fellow clan members have done, seen them go up to the dwarf (bishop is great for moral support ;)) and take the "click" and succed or fail. I personally made it my buisness to go out with my bro on a lan and actually get all the material for his D-grade full body armor (+ some material/key material we had in our WH). That's what a clan is there for, helping each other out. Most of the A-grade we have comes from the raid bosses we did before the pro farmers locked them down. We strive, we succed - if someone ebayed, it would be hard to say, because now a days it seems everyone wears A-grade and stuff, it would be obvious before when non had it and suddenly one day someone is wearing a full set.
On one hand, you blame NCsoft for not doing there job, while on the other hand it is the playerbase themselve, who is creating a market for the farmers.
One one hand you blame us for creating a market, yet in the 2 years I have played, I am yet to see NCsoft work against allowing them to create the market. Who is to blame?
All those bots do not earn money by being in game. They earn money by selling adena. And that adena is bought be the same players, who are complaining about the farmers being there.
Assumptions, assumptions, we all like to assume, right? Human nature, and little we can do, but I can always assume you are payed by NCsoft to quiet down the mess.. I can assume you buy adena.. I can assume alot, but with mere assumtions we do not get far. How do you know the people complaining here has fueld the farmers? You don't, so that comment wasnt all fair now was it?..
So next time, you write an open letter about how bad the farmers are and how NCsoft is not doing their job, you might want to look around yourself and see, where the problem originates from.
I have looked for an answer to that every day of my l2 time, the problem is never 2 sided. We have NCsoft who I have sadly seen little action from, and if they do stuff, I never see it because they never tell me about it. Thats another problem, communication! We have buyers, sellers, idiots, those who try, those who do not.. the problem is not just with us, but with others too.
You have 20 posts - so no, you did not make countless suggestions. You made a single one, and that was not even your own, it was Savage's.
You can phantasise about things in game as much as you like - the devs won't see unless it gets discussed here.
Illaaa has made suggestions to me once ingame, and to others who enjoy this forum as well as other forums. Don't just assume.
And I am yet to see much of NCsofts dicusson even for having posted countless suggestions here in the past 2 years. I have seen one discussion about PvP a long time ago, and I have no idea if anything good came out of it, NCsoft hasnt said a word..
It seems for me, its no use discussing it here either..I have so to say given up on it, its more frustrating than a reply saying "nay" from them. Even more when posts just vanish.
The forums are certainly not the most open, and the lack of communication from NCSoft is more than just a little frustrating. It gives me drive to try harder at my studying so I may one day be in the position to do it better.
However, pretending that any voice of criticism gets deleted because having a major drama queen fit and reposting the same thing over and over after it was rejected once instead of rewriting it doesn't really help make you look good.
Lets see.. we have tried posting about it when we could discuss about bots.. we have tried to tell NCsoft we would freely help them ingame.. I have myself and relayed others suggestions for helping them.. We have been ingame trying to stop them.. we have tried to take controll.. We have petitioned GMs many times, over and over about the same ones that I still see ingame..
You know, I have only seen one bot (and i know it was a bot, studied its actions for a little under a day.. same pattern (i even drew a map over the room with mob spawns, and how it went), never replied, when I managed to get it killed it wouldnt go to town until the bot over came and let the bot reset to village etc. I pmed and got a live GM (amazing, they existed before, now a days I just get that copy-paste reply.. ) and it was banned, or atleast I think because I never saw the bot again..
Thats the only time I have ever seen a bot be banned (I think, because I never even got confirmation from NCsoft saying something like "gratz, u helped us find a bot!" so I can never be sure.. ).. However, I used to have a list over bots, petitioned them.. and went on leveling with hope.. I found the list around 5 months later, and went back to see them still playing in the same spot.. petitioned again, but with hope lost, so dunno, if I find the list again i will check the same spot.. wouldnt surprice me if they are still there thought..
What action is left? People are way overdue with anger, people like finalelf might not have words in their power, but they have atleast helped ingame time and time over to bring down farmers, playing classes that could pvp and basicly "farm the farmers" as he called it once. Our letter may not have been the best, but its concerns that has been there since we first saw farmers, its concerns we still want to see more action on..
Atleast NCsoft could open up more, right now all my faith is lost, the only person who seemed to care was spam, mistryl and miykael, the latter I havent seen in a while so id assume he couldnt take it either or was "banned" from the forum.. for all that I assume NCsofts heart doesnt beat like it once did..
People, and even I did /signed, because I very much agree with them.. I went over the rules, but with my soon 1000 posts trying my best to follow the rules, I dont see why I should care anymore, for my mindset over watching our try to get NCsofts heart to beat is that NCsoft doesnt seem to want to care much, so why should I?..
What is left for me to do for a game I love and many others love and have their cups filled to the brim (mine has even spilled a little on the table) to do? Fly to NCsoft with others and sit at their table and yell at their faces? They show little sign to communicate here, I see few options left really.
One could call our attempt spam, I call it taking action.. Atleast its 1000x more than I have seen NCsoft do over the last 2 years :(
Because most of this thread seems to focus on whose opinion "matters" the most, I would like to mention that the opinions of all players are important, no matter where they post. We do visit other Lineage II fan site forums, whether they are listed/official fan sites or not, to see what's going on with the community. Threads and discussions on the official message board more often than not support or reflect the same discussions happening on other forums.
As a general warning, please keep this thread civil; there is no need to attack another player because of the message board they visit, their level, or their post count on the official board. Thank you!
yes you are right, its where part of the community is. its the part though that controls the sieges, the boss raids, and the wars. its where the "players of consequence" are that the poster was speaking of
yes you are right, its where part of the community is. its the part though that controls the sieges, the boss raids, and the wars. its where the "players of consequence" are that the poster was speaking of
Must be server-specific. Hindemith definitely prefers these boards for most of that stuff.
Wouldn't "we get deleted and ignored" be more appropriate than "you"? You implies the general public, but it's in fact only a small, select group of people that had this happen - and then only for childish stubbornness (if that's even a word).
High levels are of no greater importance than the way they set up the manor and taxes - quite an important job (and I can see on Kain that the right people aren't doing it, or at least when I last went to check they weren't), admittedly, but that's it.
Any low level player who sticks around Gludin or one of the starter towns and helps newbies out, anyone writing guides (Jute) or doing bug reports etc. has a greater impact on the game than those few high level clans.
well no one has any impact on the game. i learned this when brigadine armor was outlawed back in prelude because they couldnt simply change the text on the description.
people can however have an impact on the server, such as deciding who gets what castles, who wars who, and controling the politics. politics tend to get messy and there is simply no room for that on these boards and so there is no desire for those players to post here about them
I have impacted this game (and this board) more than you think.
It doesn't matter where you speak from, it's what you say that counts. You "game-warriors" seems to have difficulty putting that through your thick skulls.
I have impacted this game (and this board) more than you think.
It doesn't matter where you speak from, it's what you say that counts. You "game-warriors" seems to have difficulty putting that through your thick skulls.
Have Fun ! ™
BoardPK
Official Board Devil
well i'd be happy to hear about how you had any impact on anything in the game that actually mattered. feel free to pm me with these changes. i dont care how you have impacted the boards
no you see we are not the types to sit back and let the paper work go throw I have been around on thee forums a while I don’t always post but i read them allot now I know we have tried to go throw the channels nc wants us to go throw and they really just haven’t worked i mean log in and look around. so in a plea to NC allot of players deiced to post a message on the forums we figured if we all posted the same message it would show nc that we are united in what we want. but no we have to bicker over who has post count insult each other etc ... its embarrassing. that letter was posted on theses boards as a plea to nc to not let the game we al love to die off.
But between the bickering and the censorship of the issue its almost as the issue was never brought up all we are left with is a few locked threads and a continuing bickering. I don’t care if your splatter or savage if were all working to the same goal lets work together. And if you need any more proof, other then 2 years of us saying ban the bots on the official forums , that this is not the place to do it just look at what happened Monday
L2 is a game that requires, if not demands social interaction. You can happily pretend that all players opions matter but the GAME reality is that they don't! So take a minute and be honest with yourself now ... do you really truly matter? Do you moderate your own servers ingame politics or do you compensate by pretending to be special by posting here?
At any given time the dominant alliance dictates what is good and bad for the rest of the sever. Whether you agree or disagree is truly a matter of opinion because what typically determines outcomes is the decision to fight your current oppressor or not.
Go Go Despotism and down with professional farmers [Censored].
And if you need any more proof, other then 2 years of us saying ban the bots on the official forums , that this is not the place to do it just look at what happened Monday
Well, you may not post often, but you do say interesting things.
I mean, why do you guys think it's not allowed to discuss bots ? Because over the past 2 years, we've been through that subject and kicked that horse so much there was no horse left to kick.
Oddly enough, shortly after getting banned for accusing one of my own chars of botting, discussions of botting were prohibited. HAhahahahahahahahahha !
But they'll always want more proof, saying this or that is not really valid... However, board folks seem to have the ability to keep it in their pants... Sometimes...
darkmotion if your not part of the solution your part of the problem. all that poast satys is you got tired of fighting for what you once beleived to be right
An interesting point - but a decision about sieges or wars, for example, doesn't impact the players most directly involved beyond the taxes and the manor: In short, what matters is the impact you have on other people, and higher level people certainly don't have more of that by default, nor do the people on blah.
I would assume more people have used the quest guides or SA guides listed on stratics than care about the current posessor of the current Throne of Aden on Sieg.
An interesting point - but a decision about sieges or wars, for example, doesn't impact the players most directly involved beyond the taxes and the manor: In short, what matters is the impact you have on other people, and higher level people certainly don't have more of that by default, nor do the people on blah.
I would assume more people have used the quest guides or SA guides listed on stratics than care about the current posessor of the current Throne of Aden on Sieg.
i can see your point, but it is pretty much relative. you are correct that more people use the quest guides and other than care about who owns aden. that doesnt matter to me or others though.
i wasnt trying to imply that high levels are the ones of consequence or anything like that. and really players of consequence is probably wrong, it should probably be guilds or alliances of consequence. here is a good way to meause it. if you guild or you had never been on the server, would the server landscape be any different? if so, then yes you matter, if not, then sorry you dont. the degree of change would show how important you would be. now that certainly sounds harsh, but honestly alot of people just dont matter when it comes to server politics and how a server is run. if they played on server b or c instead of a, not many outside of their friends would see a difference
This is a very interesting discussion topic, hehe.
Personally, I feel that an impact on political landscape (which is very fleeting) is less important than an impact on other players. For example, one of our most largest and peaceful alliances on Devianne (Alliance of One/Ao1), is certainly a starting stone (and also a very important home) to many people, even if beyond some tussling at Gludio or Dion (I don't remember) they aren't on the central stage of politics.
HalflingHeroes/HH is another example - if they never came to the server, certainly nothing much would be changed politically. But they are a clan of consequence because they prove that collective effort on the market means more respect than ebay.
I mean, why do you guys think it's not allowed to discuss bots ? Because over the past 2 years, we've been through that subject and kicked that horse so much there was no horse left to kick.
No, the reason it can't be discussed is because it tarnishes NCsoft's image, and that could negatively impact the Company's revenue.
I agree with your reasoning about the server politics, but you are missing one thing.
Most of the people, I meet on this board on a daily basis, I have never met in game and will likely never meet in game.
Still they matter to me. I hope I do matter to some of them.
The boards are part of the game. The off-topic area is small. Almost everything we talk about here, is closely tied to the game. Not one server, but "the game" in general.
Yes, we are not talking about who is owning Aden and which alliance is currently the biggest fish in the sea. But we are talking about more general matter, like how certain classes work out in different setups, where you should go to accomplish certain things, etc. We are brainstorming about ideas, that might make this game better and if only one of those ideas gets ever implemented, it was worth the effort.
So your "players of consequence" are specilised, while the "board-crew" is more for the general game.
I wouldn't dare to decide, which is more important.
If today, whole Nightmare and Synergy alliance would vanish from the server Gustin, I would only notice that, cause one of them is on my friendlist. There is no other impact by that on me. I was there, when EA ruled Gustin. I was there, when Nightmare took over. I witnessed the offspring of Synergy...
The high politics of Gustin... which all got absolutely no effect on me.
It does matter to you, of course, but there are lots of players on the server, that do not care, who is the boss currently, as long as they do not get killed by them.
To me, the sudden absence of Darkmotion or Maline or Splatter or SirElrohir or siLve (german board) would mean more, than the complete explosion of all servers but Gustin and the vanishing of all players on Gustin, who got a subclass.
i'm not sure what you mean by board crew, i guess you mean the people that post here alot. i generally spend more time on the boards than i do ingame, i just dont spend it here because this board really doesnt matter to me. i visited here monday because i wanted to see how the bartz people were doing with their threads about the raid farmers. they got as far as i suspected. the only other time i come here is when the login servers are down and come to see if they have a solution posted. i just happened to see the player of consequence thing and figured i'd chime in.
if they could actually change any of the game balance or fix problems, i'd certainly post here alot more. since they cant posting why class x should have this and not that or about other problems, is simply just a waste of a post
Mistryl posts the devs direct links to these boards (and as she just, to my surprise, said, others), so it's not that bad.
But just as an example: look at this (http://l2pets.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=495). While obviously many things were changed, the basic ideas run very close to what actually happened.
If we want a change, we must whine - and we must whine loudly, consistantly and in an appropriate manner.
i'm not sure what that is suppose to show me. are you trying to imply that the north american version is different from the korean? nothing gets changed here unless it gets changed there first. you want something changed you need to get the koreans to complain about it. sure they can offer suggestions but they arent going to do anything unless they want it over there.
sorry if that seems cynical, but thats just the way it is. i thought everyone knew that
. . . here is a good way to meause it. if you guild or you had never been on the server, would the server landscape be any different? if so, then yes you matter, if not, then sorry you dont. the degree of change would show how important you would be. now that certainly sounds harsh, but honestly alot of people just dont matter when it comes to server politics and how a server is run. if they played on server b or c instead of a, not many outside of their friends would see a difference
I am at a loss for words in the face of such an attitude; but Rod Serling wasn't, as he stated in "The Obsolete Man:"
The Chancellor - the late Chancellor - was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so was the State, the entity he worshiped. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of man, that state is obsolete. A case to be filed under 'M' for mankind... in the Twilight Zone.
. . . here is a good way to meause it. if you guild or you had never been on the server, would the server landscape be any different? if so, then yes you matter, if not, then sorry you dont. the degree of change would show how important you would be. now that certainly sounds harsh, but honestly alot of people just dont matter when it comes to server politics and how a server is run. if they played on server b or c instead of a, not many outside of their friends would see a difference
I am at a loss for words in the face of such an attitude; but Rod Serling wasn't, as he stated in "The Obsolete Man:"
The Chancellor - the late Chancellor - was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so was the State, the entity he worshiped. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of man, that state is obsolete. A case to be filed under 'M' for mankind... in the Twilight Zone.
its a good thing i'm speaking of a video game server and not real life
I see people arguing back and forth but what are you really arguing about.
The initial question begs a question. Why? I feel that Panic wants to make a point but has decided to do it in a way that is episodic and that he already believes to be correct.
So he has his final conclusion and has then decided what the plot points of his argument will be:
1, Do people of consequence post on these boards
2, If People of consequence post on these boards, do they use the boards to declare/discuss large scale ingame events (playerbased such as wars, sieges, economics etc).
3, ?
Panic seems very well spoken and I get the intelligence behind his posts but I can't help wonder that he is leading us down a road toward a conclusion that he already knows (and that some of us might guess at).
Ok, so he seems satisfied by the idea that people of consequence post on these boards (and as Mystryl has pointed out, all players are of consequence). However, it does seem subjective.
If you are a role player who doesn't PvP yet mostly PvP players post then obviously no one of consequence posts on the boards (unless of course you know and respect them yadda yadda). The Opposite is also true then.
Do these players use the boards to post about ingame events that effect the majority of their servers? Depends on what one thinks is important. Seems that their are some differing views on this.
Ok Panic, the next question is your silver bullet (done in "3's" never "4" as odd numbers give us better results in this form).
darkmotion if your not part of the solution your part of the problem. all that poast satys is you got tired of fighting for what you once beleived to be right
NO !
I am both the problem, and the solution.
The thing of it is, I have "board" influence. The "game-warriors" have the edge in-game.
MY question is, the "game-warriors" came in a raiding in here but never took the problem upon themselves.
If I controled X heads such as you high levels Heroes who are roaming around these days, I would put lower levels on Bot detail to ensure maximum disruption of illegal activity.
I would also organize raids against higher end "cheaters".
But no. These leaders with tons of human ressources came here and spam-posted a letter asking NCSoft to get rid of cockroaches on planet earth. NOT gonna happen.
Getting the roaches out of your game is YOUR responsibilty. If leaders would like some tactical advice, they are always welcome here, on the official boards, to chat about strategy.
I honestly can not feel any particular intelligence - he is bluntly trying to imply that these boards are worthless because blah has more threads and more high level posters.
He got proven wrong when he tried this about players, so he tried it about server politics and once again had it pointed out to him that the forums are perfectly usable for this.
I honestly can not feel any particular intelligence - he is bluntly trying to imply that these boards are worthless because blah has more threads and more high level posters.
Just like a game of "Risk".
They risked it, but their attack was not planned well enough, so they looked like dorks, and they don'T undestand why, because they did perfectly fine on blah.
So now they are trying to save face, but it's already too late, as we tactical folks have already pegged them. Oh God if Darraess was still here...
The past few days have shown us that some players of consequence post on these boards. Therefore this now leads to the next issue we could take a closer a look at is IF the players Decisions of Consequence are publicly displayed here. (please note that this debate should in no include events created by employees of NCsoft)
What I mean by Decisions of Consequence is for example:
1) Do large alliances declare war on each other and openly air their respective grievances via this official forums board?
2) Do clans publicly surrender here?
3) Do players post influencial commentary on how ingame conflicts are progressing on this forum?
If you can think of other such consequential decisions made out of game please post them so I add them to my list.
And this thread also begs the question ... If not, why?
Combat sieges scamming etc are all over the Hindemith boards. With replies from many of the leaders and videos of events influencing future ones. Absolutely. Blah is not used for this purpose for us. Blah is just a place for children to swear or brag about other means of exping.
Was it them that gave us a L2 favicon? NO...
Was it them that got rid of the outdated Primaguide? NO...
Was it them that gave us a Fan Fiction section? NO....
Is it them that are striving for NC to put up a torrent system? NO...
the communists ... the communists have a long histroy of oposing free speech and expecting everyone to conform to one understanding. Btw if you look closely you could see the possibilty that a lot of board communists post here.
What makes L2 great is that many different peeps can get what the want the same game. For almost 3 years now I've been helping my clan and alliance by protecting every individuals right to do their own thing and in doing so get what they are seeking from this computer game. I've proactively held peeps together by warning of the great dangers involved in telling others how to play this game.
Saying everyone matters is a nice enough viewpoint for the real world but letz not forget we play a computer where you can choose to adopt new philosophical viewpoints and go off and kill whomever you like.
For the peeps who enjoy massive pvp in Lineage POWER IS EVERYTHING. We endeavour gain power and then we use it. L2 is a conflict based game and many peeps play for the fun of mass pvp.
That the server superpowers don't seem to fight it out on the official forums is to me ... a curiousity.
The thing of it is, I have "board" influence. The "game-warriors" have the edge in-game.
MY question is, the "game-warriors" came in a raiding in here but never took the problem upon themselves.
If I controled X heads such as you high levels Heroes who are roaming around these days, I would put lower levels on Bot detail to ensure maximum disruption of illegal activity.
I would also organize raids against higher end "cheaters".
But no. These leaders with tons of human ressources came here and spam-posted a letter asking NCSoft to get rid of cockroaches on planet earth. NOT gonna happen.
you see its past the point of the players being able to control the server the roaches hold too much power and it is harder then you think to keep moral up when fighting people with near unlimited resorces
and yes im going to call my self a game warrior my allinance regurlay kills off farmers in low level areas we have a clan for it for our perma reds and i can gladley say 100% we have none of thoes unmentionabules in any of our clans and if you look now on bartz we are fighting back against the farmers more and more each day but its just a matter of us being un able to inpact them the problem is to the point that nc soft has to remove the profesional farmers to cut theses people off at there sourse and as there coffers run dry theay will move on them selvs , it becomes a war of attrition then
we came here asking nc soft to do what theay promiced follow there owne eula and get rid of the blatent farmers but theay chose to siclence us
As far as I am aware, Devianne's top alliance (if I can call it that) Covenant fights the farmers for the epic and the raid bosses, often successfully. Between the downfall of the first massive dominating farmer faction and until the arrival of that one massive wave of ebayers, at that, there were considerably fewer farmers on the server.
That was because of the community.
But people "of consequence" are too busy padding their ego to "hold hands" a bit to actively beat down on the farmers - because of coure aggressively pursueing getting that plague of the server would be "carebear".
I am tagless right now - not for lack of offers either. It's just that the only clan among those I would like to join of which I am reasonably certain that it has no ebayers is composed of real life friends, and I thus have no offer for it.
Then I look at a player who got rejected from my former clan for asking the recruitment officer if she knew somewhere to buy cheap adena show up in a "respectable" alliance, and I have to ask myself how many people are really left that give a **** anymore.
If ebayers were consistantly beaten down on at sieges, unable to find alliances except with each other and the farmers, things might look a bit different. But they're not - just hush it up and don't brag about it too loudly, and everything's JUST dandy.
PS: "Board communism?" So much for any doubts that panic might indeed pursueing a deeper, rethorically clever goal with his threads than "You suck and I won't say it directly". The fact that not everyone can agree with your narrow view does not make them communist, and you're not a rebel: You're a follower.
However, it can run a different way too - the top alliance on Devianne is very very muddy around the edges from what I hear now, but they were relatively clean for a long while - as deduced by the fact that people were always complaining about the same two or three people from the whole alliance not being legitimate.
Either way, it definitely won't happen. As I said, people aren't thinking outside the box in the least, so no changes from the player base can be expected. Since NCSoft seems unwilling or unable to fix the problem (I would personally guess it's the latter for at least the majority of staff), and the players definitely aren't willing to cooperate about it either - I would guess that it's here to stay. :p
So this is really a "clever" way to say that nobody who matter post here? Who whould have thought. But I didn't expect you to say that we all have the same opinion and are communists. That shows me you don't know the first thing about people here.
A lot of us have been using this forum for a long time. And we know what not to do (spamming and flaming mostly, which suits me fabulously). People usually keep to one thread dedicated to the topic when addressing bots directly, because we know that the post is gonna get locked or deleted if we make a new one. Doing otherwise would be stupid. I can accept that. There are only so many times you can read the same thing and keep your sanity. But it's a shame that real original ideas can't be posted as a new thread. But these are the house rules, and as a visitor, you should abide.
But answer me this; How would we have any kind of discussion, if we all have the same opinion? You think we're holding hands and agreeing with eachother the whole time?
@ the topic: It really depends on who you are, who and what you find important.
On a multi-sided server, there are so many people that thinks their own fragtion and their opponents are the most important thing in the game, while two (or more) other sides wouldn't give a flying [censored] about either. Or maybe that's just me... I don't care about any other sieges than the one I attended myself. Why would I? I have nothing invested in the others, though maybe if a castle changes hands, I might care about the tax/manor. Nothing else. I do not care who holds any other castle.
That's not to say that what I don't care about isn't important, because it might be important to someone else.
So this is really a "clever" way to say that nobody who matter post here? Who whould have thought. But I didn't expect you to say that we all have the same opinion and are communists.
Did I say that .... my bad .... maybe I should clarify my position by saying that the illustrious Mystryl has been expounding what could be viewed, in another time and another era, as communist doctrine. Operating this forum with a communistic hardline effectively repells the despotic player lords from ever posting here. It's a clash of ideologies. Mystryl would proclaim "I have the power to protect you" and the despotic lords would vehemently reply "I have the power to protect myself. Who are you?".
In all seriousness I am in the process of writing a proposal for a PHD thesis centred on this games gaming community. I posted my questions of consequence in order to gather data because forums are a significant part of the highend gameplay. One of my proposed chapters will be on how and why the Official Forums became so far removed from the core community. (p.s. if NCsoft would like to fund my thesis plz send e-mail me)
I would argue that this forum constitutes a nice little utopia because, as we've seen this week, it is so well protected 24 hours a day by paid employees of the game maker.
However L2 is a game system and players will creatively work every part of a game system to war their enemies. Decisions of Consequence can't be effectively publicised here because the very system of moderation that protects all will be manipulated to silence and sabotarge enemies.
Sorry to smash the illusion that this ideolically carebear forum creates but forums like Blah in all improbability provide a higher quality protection to players of LineageII by giving none.
And to take this argument one step further, the existence of forums like Blah possibly makes this official forum, not the people who post here, very inconsequencial indeed.
Sorry to say that, but if you write a thesis based on your own views as I have seen them so far, I can only pitty you.
What you are seemingly going to write is a story of your perspective, centered on your own part of the whole thing, without looking at the whole matter from a neutral viewpoint.
One of my proposed chapters will be on how and why the Official Forums became so far removed from the core community.
What is the core community ? You are still focused on your in game levels. That is all that matters to you. If you are not lvl 75+, you are not a "core community member" ?
Who are you to say, that I am not part of the core ? Who are you to decide, that the player, who started yesterday is not part of the core community ?
As for your "communist" argument:
This is not a government. This is a privately owned board. The owner is the NCsoft corporation. As every other person, NCsoft can make rules. You got to abide the rules, or you stay out of the house.
In game, you are unable to kill me, unless I leave town. That is a fact and a fixed rule of the game.. And in a way - following your logic - it is NCsoft telling you what to do and what not to do. You cannot kill me in town, so the "communists" are making us all equal in town, as a lvl 75 cannot kill a lvl 1. Still you seem to have no problem accepting in game rules, but you cannot accept board rules. That seems illogic to me.
Decisions of Consequence can't be effectively publicised here because the very system of moderation that protects all will be manipulated to silence and sabotarge enemies.
Sorry, but that is utter nonsense.
You can post your declarations of war all the time you want. You can post, which clans you will KOS, you can say, which players you will KOS and which are under your protection. You can order all players to sit down every Friday noon. You can even organize player driven events of any kind, including a mass-bot-hunting, should you wish for.
All that is perfectly within the board rules, and I do not see you ever having even tried to do any of that.
Other clans and alliances are already doing it (point Hindemith board), so how can you say, that it is impossible ?
And I still do not like your precious "decisions of consequence" wording. If you decide to lay siege on Aden, that is of no more consequence to me, than if you decide to have Pizza for lunch.
You got power, but that does not mean, that I will care for what you are doing. In game you even got the power to kill me all day long. With an alliance in your back, you can most likely enforce it, that I am killed whenever I leave any town.
But guess what, you cannot make me go down on my knees. Simply cause the game mechanic does not allow you to force me to do anything. So your "decisions" got absolutely "no consequence" to me.
And to take this argument one step further, the existence of forums like Blah possibly makes this official forum, not the people who post here, very inconsequencial indeed.
So what? Really. IMO let's keep the politics on blah, where people get to talk and spit like sailors if they wish. The reason I still read and post here, is because you can't do that here. I don't need all that aggression in my face.
Why are you taking this so personally if I may ask?
Because you are implying with your posts, that a high level makes a player more important. And that collides with my natural stubborness of being a female illogical computer science cat.
As an aspriring PHD, you should know, that you cannot just go around and plant a thesis without any arguments, and then expect all the people who read them, to just hold still and not care.
Wouldn't you take it personal, if I'd say "all players with a subclass are silly boys with to much time on their hands, who should really go out and find a girl" ?
So this is really a "clever" way to say that nobody who matter post here? Who whould have thought. But I didn't expect you to say that we all have the same opinion and are communists.
Did I say that .... my bad .... maybe I should clarify my position by saying that the illustrious Mystryl has been expounding what could be viewed, in another time and another era, as communist doctrine. Operating this forum with a communistic hardline effectively repells the despotic player lords from ever posting here. It's a clash of ideologies. Mystryl would proclaim "I have the power to protect you" and the despotic lords would vehemently reply "I have the power to protect myself. Who are you?".
In all seriousness I am in the process of writing a proposal for a PHD thesis centred on this games gaming community. I posted my questions of consequence in order to gather data because forums are a significant part of the highend gameplay. One of my proposed chapters will be on how and why the Official Forums became so far removed from the core community. (p.s. if NCsoft would like to fund my thesis plz send e-mail me)
I would argue that this forum constitutes a nice little utopia because, as we've seen this week, it is so well protected 24 hours a day by paid employees of the game maker.
However L2 is a game system and players will creatively work every part of a game system to war their enemies. Decisions of Consequence can't be effectively publicised here because the very system of moderation that protects all will be manipulated to silence and sabotarge enemies.
Sorry to smash the illusion that this ideolically carebear forum creates but forums like Blah in all improbability provide a higher quality protection to players of LineageII by giving none.
And to take this argument one step further, the existence of forums like Blah possibly makes this official forum, not the people who post here, very inconsequencial indeed.
I wasn't taking it personally before... but now I am, because if you can get your degree with a thesis that displays a similar level of insight as your posts here, that's an insult to anyone in higher education (take this as you will).
First, you have already been flat out proven wrong about your assumption that it's impossible for relevant politics and like matters to be discussed here: see the Hindemith forums. You just have to do it in a mature tone - and that's, of course, not always what you want to do on a game, which is why L2Blah exists.
Yep, there are many problems, both in game and with the boards. There's no denying that - and guess what, nobody is trying to. But you are making up problems that don't exist or are actually so small that they're not worth noting, and you're trying to get an academic pat on the back for that?
If I can get a PhD that way, why on earth am I still bothering with Analysis and Linear Algebra?
I wasn't taking it personally before... but now I am, because if you can get your degree with a thesis that displays a similar level of insight as your posts here, that's an insult to anyone in higher education (take this as you will).
First, you have already been flat out proven wrong about your assumption that it's impossible for relevant politics and like matters to be discussed here: see the Hindemith forums. You just have to do it in a mature tone - and that's, of course, not always what you want to do on a game, which is why L2Blah exists.
Yep, there are many problems, both in game and with the boards. There's no denying that - and guess what, nobody is trying to. But you are making up problems that don't exist or are actually so small that they're not worth noting, and you're trying to get an academic pat on the back for that?
If I can get a PhD that way, why on earth am I still bothering with Analysis and Linear Algebra?
you proof flat out again.. that you ARE a warrior of the board by implying Panic did not get a degree.. hereby trying to let the peopel know you DO have one and imply you are smarter then Panic is. You are full of yourself.
Now a question I have mainly for a GM or Admin... and you people can put in your opinions also if you want.
If one of these socalled "Raid farmers" leaders get caught on ingame screenshot saying/admitting they camp/raid/**** these raidbosses to gather adena so they can sell it for real life money. IS this enough reason to ban?
MMO's are a new interactive media that have now become a lifestyle choice.
A PHD media student at my university is writing a thesis on 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' as it has mass appeal and as usual some peeps would just like to know why?
If one of these socalled "Raid farmers" leaders get caught on ingame screenshot saying/admitting they camp/raid/**** these raidbosses to gather adena so they can sell it for real life money. IS this enough reason to ban?
I freakin hope so! Good luck getting that screenshot though :confused:
I did catch one of these farmers *implying* that they sold adena a while ago... Which I reported hoping that it could be part of building a case against them. But I lost the screenshot when I reformatted my computer T_T
There is nothing wrong with writing a PHD thesis about computer games. We had at leas half a dozen philosophy and sociology students on the german boards this year, asking the MMOG-community to fill out a survey, which they wanted to use for some scientific work.
I got absolutely no problem with that.
But when it comes to scientific work, there need to be some effort put into it, and I feel your thesis being based to much on assumptions and to little on facts.
You are seeing the topic you picked from one viewpoint only (your own), when you instead would need to look at the topic from all sides.
Unless however your thesis is already "Only players of a certain in-game achievement are counting as players of consequence". If that is your thesis, then that is OK of course, altough I would not agree with it.
But your thesis seems to be based on other thesises already. Your thesis sounds like "Players of consequence do not frequent official boards, as they are not allowed to voice their opinion there."
Again, that would surely be a valid thesis, but it would easily be shot down.
Being a mathematician myself, I am used to making assumptions (mathematical ones!) and try to disproove them. The assumption is valid, as long as noone is able to disproove it.
But the moment anyone does disproove the assumption, it is null. And that needs to be accepted by the person, who is making the assumption in the first place.
The more you base your assumption on prior assumptions, the higher the risk of your assumption getting nullified by one of your base-assumptions getting disprooven.
Obviously proove and disproove are far easier in math or computer science, than they are in philosophy, but still it is possible to disproove a thesis.
Personally I would not dare to say "Posts of l2blah are of more consequence than posts of lineage2.com". Simply because such a thesis is giving far to much hookpoints to bring it down.
And I do not like my assumptions being disprooven.
Unfortunately, it was stated, that anything said in game, cannot be sole ground for a ban.
Personally I would love to havbe a rule in place like:
"If you are so dumb to find it funny, to say in jest, that you are a cheater, then you will be treated like you are a cheater, no matter what."
Currently I am allowed to shout in Giran:
"I am a botter and ebayed 500 Million adena !" and nothing would ever happen to me, as it is not true.
this "innocent until prooven" sometimes is a real hard case.
Your reading comprehension abandons you. I am saying that someone with a few as restricted as Panic should not be allowed to graduate (even though he is) while I actually have to work hard just to get my bachelor (and study difficult subjects, instead of writing a baseless rant - I'm already good at those).
Panic, your reading comprehension only strengthens my point: I have no problem with the topic, but with your capacities of fully understanding it.
Would just like to clarify that I haven't writtern a thesis yet (unlike some on this forum). As I said before I am in the process of putting together a proposal :)
And I dont speak french, or whatever it was, that you said.
Since we all speak english and maybe one or two other languages, wouldn't it be logical, to stick to english ?
Not that I want to scold the players of consequence, of course. If the players of consequence decide, that we must all speak french, I am pretty sure, that it will indeed have consequences ;)
Vraiment, I believe, means "truly" or something to that effect - it's the adjective for true in French at any rate, or so I think. class with Frau "Kleinundgemein" Mächtig was a rather traumatic on a whole.
To resolve this simply: Kitty, did you imply he had already written his thesis?
- German, English or broken French or Japanese Non-Kitten
Nope, I figured, he was a PHD in the process of writing a thesis or an aspiring PHD in the process of writing a thesis.
In any case, it is my feeling, that the thesis is currently not based sufficiently on facts, but to lose based on other assumptions, which are questionable themselves.
A fundamental math rule is "Ex falsum quodlibet" (latin!)
That saying means: "You can conclude everything from a false assumption."
Or in other words: "If the moon is made of green cheese, then 2+2=5".
I didn't feel like reading all those paragraphs people were writing... so anyways.
I don't know 1 Hero, 1 member of a major alliance, 1 top ranked player of Bartz, that posts in these forums on a regular basis.
The players that have been around since Open Beta/C1 most likely used to post here, but as the problem wasn't going away and NCSoft was deleting their posts/banning them to keep their game "looking" as though there were no problems, they moved on to other forums where they could freely express themselves.
Oddly enough the same isn't true for other servers - and as pointed out multiple times, by multiple long-time whiners without bans or excessive deletes, it's not like you can't complain, you just can't have drama.
Well, 184 would mean he has been reasonably active in one subsection - by how he talks, however, I would assume that he has kept more strictly to "safe" topics than any of the regulars.
Oddly enough the same isn't true for other servers - and as pointed out multiple times, by multiple long-time whiners without bans or excessive deletes, it's not like you can't complain, you just can't have drama.
weather your poasting here now or got banned it doesent matter the problem has bene around since prealude and it has only gotten worse
It's funny how all these people with low post counts know so much about this forum. I'm impressed.
for the love of god stop being sutch a eleetist *****!
It's got nothing to do with being elitist - the fact is people are crying impossible, when obviously it's not (so much easier to prove something is possible than impossible).
We're all aware of the problems. We all hate them with a passion. We all want a fix. We just don't all totally don't get the problems with company policies and beaurocracy.
I just wish they would ban more decisively faster, but then, more Liltas would continually point out that they got NO APOLOGY. A false positive can do more harm than a thousand ignored negatives, it seems, so there must be detailed procedures to follow etc.
for the love of god stop being sutch a eleetist *****!
DUDE! That's my first comment of that kind! And I was refering to the fact that this person obviously doesn't use this board, but seems to know a whole lot about it. FFS.
thats al lany of us want some deside to follow within the normal boundries some deside to go out side them is all
DUDE! That's my first comment of that kind! And I was refering to the fact that this person obviously doesn't use this board, but seems to know a whole lot about it. FFS.
sounded a afaul lot about makeing fun of people with low poast counts and lack of respect for them but if it wasent i withdraw my comment
It wasn't to make fun of anyone, or belittle. I just find it interesting that people who do not use these forums know so much about them.
I think I've shown them enough respect so far in this thread and the stickied one, but it kinda gets to me, that some of them judge the users of these boards wrongly as well as how they are managed. You may say that the moderators are ****es for not allowing new threads about bots, but come on.. How many unconstructive bot threads have we seen so far? Yes, many. And those have ruined it for the people who try to come up with a solution, or try a different perspective. This is how I view it.
What she was saying, and this is true, that a whiner with a post count of 184 knows less about the risks of getting banned and if it's possible to evade it than a whiner with nearly 10k post counts (isn't that what LC is up to now?).
I personally think that people who want to have a drama queen fit should stay out of this trouble, as they're only making the community look worse.
There are two possibilities.
A) NCSoft doesn't care. In this case, they just laugh when people complain and go about their merry way. There is nothing you can do to change your mind, they do not need your subscription fee.
B) NCSoft can't do it. In this case, they whince a bit every time they get beaten down on. Unless they pay their GMs for being liars, I would say this is the case - the GM I recently talked to broke into a "smiley-a-line" after I said a simple phrase (which is something I pretty much always do, albeit sincerely, when dealing with service staff of any kind) - "Thank you for your hard work". I would assume that they read these forums, and that whatever restrictions they're working on bother them just as much if not more than us. Slapping them down for it won't help.
Yes, they're not handling the situation well - no doubt at all. We don't know the reasons for that, however, and I refuse to believe that there's a company that is 100% full of staff that doesn't give a flying toss about the game.
If even just a handful of staffers love this game, the hate they get here is unwarranted - for anything except their refusal to communicate, although who knows, maybe, that, too, is ordained from above.
PS: Bash the people who still don't code MMORPGs expecting that people will attempt to bot, if you need someone to bash.
It's kind of a sarcastic comment (and a rather poor attack).
Une chose à laquelle il faut faire attention, c'est que lorsqu'on fait l'imbécile, peut importe la langue, il y aura toujours quelqu'un pour le remarquer.
Faut pas faire de chèques si t'a pas de fric en caisse pour les couvrir.
and for the others.. look again.. again you whine about "our" low post count ... you guys are a sad bunch of territorial whinegums.
continue derailing threads... and whine about peoples postcount and cry cause you can't get past lvl60 whatever.. you guys claim to be "complaining" about this problem for 2years now... well you suck at getting your point out there cause your too busy putting your nose ... well you get the picture.
Kinda ammusing.
I have never seen anyone whining about not being able to level.
Also both Maline and me stated (more than once), that high post count does not make anyone any more important. Likewise a high level in game does not make an opinion any more right or important.
And I really do not see your "people of consequence" having made any bigger impact on the topic, than we did in the past 2 years.
And once again you need to resort to calling others brown nosers.. I wonder why, cause noone here does defend NCsoft, but that seems to be a point that you do fail to understand.
Oh well. I suggest you go back in game, kill some lvl 50 with your full group of 9 70+ players and congratulate yourself on your l33t PvP skills.
panic was at least able to discuss in a civilised manner, but you are just acting like you are the pride of creation and everyone should stand in awe, when you speak.
and for the others.. look again.. again you whine about "our" low post count ... you guys are a sad bunch of territorial whinegums.
continue derailing threads... and whine about peoples postcount and cry cause you can't get past lvl60 whatever.. you guys claim to be "complaining" about this problem for 2years now... well you suck at getting your point out there cause your too busy putting your nose ... well you get the picture.
salut les gamins.
Well... lets do server politics... on lineage2.com ... It could be fun to see if everybody can not use profanity...
Here we go...
Dawn is a scrub alliance. It is nothing but a zerg with no recruitment standards. Everytime somebody posts a LFC post on blah... dawn is there right quick fast and in a hurry. It doesn't matter if the person is a blatent botter/ebayer... you are there to recruit. Good game.
Definition of irony: Haveing shogonitze in your clan and screaming about bots.
one must admit though there is a contention between the normal board posters and the resent influx of game warriors on the boards so that might have blurred a bit but i digress
A) NCSoft doesn't care. In this case, they just laugh when people complain and go about their merry way. There is nothing you can do to change your mind, they do not need your subscription fee.
that might be the case hence why some members of bla are trying to get a mass deactivation of accounts
B) NCSoft can't do it. In this case, they whince a bit every time they get beaten down on. Unless they pay their GMs for being liars, I would say this is the case - the GM I recently talked to broke into a "smiley-a-line" after I said a simple phrase (which is something I pretty much always do, albeit sincerely, when dealing with service staff of any kind) - "Thank you for your hard work". I would assume that they read these forums, and that whatever restrictions they're working on bother them just as much if not more than us. Slapping them down for it won't help.
true it wont but if nc is scared of getting beaten down they really should look in to the acting’s on bla. since the letter wasn’t heard here there taking it to the masses and that’s going to be one hell of a beat down
Yes, they're not handling the situation well - no doubt at all.
im sure we all agree on this one or as some might say /signed
We don't know the reasons for that, however, and I refuse to believe that there's a company that is 100% full of staff that doesn't give a flying toss about the game.
im sure they do care about the game and im sure they don’t like reading this and i know the silence either needs to come down from Korea or rust ( my moneys on Korea ) but if it is well some thing really has to change
i mean the lack of information we get from nc is amazing every other game in the world gives you more information then them we don’t even get full patch notes any more :/
It's funny how all these people with low post counts know so much about this forum. I'm impressed.
It's funny how most of the people with low post counts on a forum are actually Bartz Heroes, Alliance Superpower Leaders, and server vs server competition champs of Bartz that have been playing since closed beta, and know more about the game then someone who's been playing on the last made server.
That is, IF we want to look at post counts and signatures to judge someone.
It's funny how all these people with low post counts know so much about this forum. I'm impressed.
It's funny how most of the people with low post counts on a forum are actually Bartz Heroes, Alliance Superpower Leaders, and server vs server competition champs of Bartz that have been playing since closed beta, and know more about the game then someone who's been playing on the last made server.
That is, IF we want to look at post counts and signatures to judge someone.
maybe they should post here and help out the new L2 community. This is the first place that people go. I direct a lot of them to blah as I post quite a bit there as well. In the bartz section I posted 2 links for all new players to bartz. Links going to the l2blah clan list and war post. So taht new people would have an idea of what the server is like.
Blah > politics
l2.com > discussing the game
You guys should seriously come here and start posting and not just negative bs. I came here as a joke to mock rollplayers, but I stuck around... now I have 1500+ posts. :(
The arrogance that has been shown the past few days (from both sides) is really quite pathetic. It is just rediculous crap. The back and forth, "You just post on forums all day! GO LVL you are meaningless!" and the "You are just game warriors! Go post on blah cause u need to swear cause u are kids!"
This is all just crap. So everybody just needs to grow the -_- up.
I want an answer as to why blah is 'communist' since billy has rules.
Oh sorry it was late where I live and this thread actually put me to sleep. Hmmmm this IS an interesting question too and me thinks we should let the wonderment of the internet better answer it for you.
What kind of Forum is Blah? (http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34198)
I trust this will grant you a satisfactory answer to your question
I want an answer as to why blah is 'communist' since billy has rules.
Oh sorry it was late where I live and this thread actually put me to sleep. Hmmmm this IS an interesting question too and me thinks we should let the wonderment of the internet better answer it for you.
What kind of Forum is Blah? (http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34198)
I trust this will grant you a satisfactory answer to your question
it did... cause limepro agrees with me.
You just don't get it. This forum is a part of the NCsoft corporation. A corporation is going to do what they can to have a good reputation. Hence threads about how bad the corporation is are obviously banned from here because:
A: They give bad pr.
B: They don't add anything.
Now what kind of a system would have a corporations that cares about profits? The obvious answer to that must be a communist system. Your logic and arguments are so flawed it's amazing.
btw... billy (I would assume) doesn't allow adena/account selling because then blah would become a joke in the L2 community. What happens if you post about selling adena/accounts on blah? Same thing as what happens here.
Limepro's example is of how a Blah thread was locked becoz the person who started isn't respected .... this to me sounds more like Fascism than Communism.
Mystryl has said that all players are of consequence and as the mass forum account bannings have shown, this is only true if they follow the party line.
Is "don't shoot people in the street" a "party line" too?
If someone spammed to the extent that happened on here on blah/Devianne, we would soon here a "rang rang -_-" from Wrenn or Mune and be faced with a lock and permaban, no questions asked.
Is that also a party line?
The rules don't become socialistic just because you don't like them.
It's funny how all these people with low post counts know so much about this forum. I'm impressed.
It's funny how most of the people with low post counts on a forum are actually Bartz Heroes, Alliance Superpower Leaders, and server vs server competition champs of Bartz that have been playing since closed beta, and know more about the game then someone who's been playing on the last made server.
That is, IF we want to look at post counts and signatures to judge someone.
maybe they should post here and help out the new L2 community. This is the first place that people go. I direct a lot of them to blah as I post quite a bit there as well. In the bartz section I posted 2 links for all new players to bartz. Links going to the l2blah clan list and war post. So taht new people would have an idea of what the server is like.
Blah > politics
l2.com > discussing the game
You guys should seriously come here and start posting and not just negative bs. I came here as a joke to mock rollplayers, but I stuck around... now I have 1500+ posts. :(
The arrogance that has been shown the past few days (from both sides) is really quite pathetic. It is just rediculous crap. The back and forth, "You just post on forums all day! GO LVL you are meaningless!" and the "You are just game warriors! Go post on blah cause u need to swear cause u are kids!"
This is all just crap. So everybody just needs to grow the -_- up.
the point is, I think quite a few players used to post here untill they realized something.
you dont become a leader of a superpower alliance if you talk to a wall and keep doing so.
a hot topic atm is "Farmers".
we report them, nothing happens.
we report them again, nothing happens.
in many many cases the reported farmers are bots. still they keep doing their farming business 24/7.
so ppl go to the official boards and find themselfes ignored, if they keep pushing the issue, they find themselfes being banned, their posts deleted.
if you just want to talk, these boards are fine.
if you remind the game company that they set rules they have to enforce, this forum is not the right place.
if you want to tell the sevice company you pay that they are doing a terrible job providing the paid service according to rules set by THEM, this forum is the wrong place.
that is at least how i think.
if i can't use a companies forum to adress issues that aren't us player's to deal with, then i dont see the point using this forum at all.
and, im sorry, maybe im just an imature *** but if i am posting in a game related forum and i am able to murder someone in this game, break into someones house every other weekend in this game, then the least i expect, posting on the related board, is to be able to say "[censored]" without being censored.
but again, that is my personal opinion.
-have a nice day, everyone.
edit:
post count of 1, I allready posted on these boards, like a year ago or more.
couldn't even be bothered to do something about that terrible username.
Most companies that provide a service do NOT have forums. If they did they would also be heavily moderated. If my local/Regional Telephone company had a forum, I wouldn't expect any less than heavy moderation.
NCSoft is not the only company with an MMO Game in todays market. You are guaranteed a service, and that is what your pay for and recieve. If you do not think you are recieving a reasonable service, you can easily spend your money elsewhere. I know plenty that have done exactly that. The Truth is, nearly every service provided by any company has faults or issues. This is the norm for our technological age. This doesn't mean that the companies should ignore the problem or give up trying to fix the issues. I believe they ARE trying to take care of the problem as best they can. Just because they can ban anyone or everyone they see fit for any or no reason at all, does NOT mean that they should. Likewise, most companies in the field of MMO's realize that it would not be within thier best interrests to do so.
Likewise they also must follow certain Laws of privacy and other such complicated issues no matter how mundane or ridiculous they may seem. I believe that is where the problem stems from.
The past few days have shown us that some players of consequence post on these boards. Therefore this now leads to the next issue we could take a closer a look at is IF the players Decisions of Consequence are publicly displayed here. (please note that this debate should in no include events created by employees of NCsoft)
What I mean by Decisions of Consequence is for example:
1) Do large alliances declare war on each other and openly air their respective grievances via this official forums board?
2) Do clans publicly surrender here?
3) Do players post influencial commentary on how ingame conflicts are progressing on this forum?
If you can think of other such consequential decisions made out of game please post them so I add them to my list.
And this thread also begs the question ... If not, why?
Yes, they definitely should post here! I would enjoy the drama. All the news I really hear in game comes from players shouting to each other as they pass close enough to my camp to be heard. Kinda boring sometimes, being an inconsequential soloing Spell Howler.
It's funny how all these people with low post counts know so much about this forum. I'm impressed.
It's funny how most of the people with low post counts on a forum are actually Bartz Heroes, Alliance Superpower Leaders, and server vs server competition champs of Bartz that have been playing since closed beta, and know more about the game then someone who's been playing on the last made server.
That is, IF we want to look at post counts and signatures to judge someone.
Who cares if they are heroes? How is that relevant? Did you understand what I meant at all? Or do you just want to gloat about how far you have come in game?
Listen, it doesn't mean you have a less valid opinion because you have a low postcount. But it suggests that you have not been using this forum very much, and that's why your opinion on the topic of how this forum works weighs less. This is not elitism. I don't know how I'm going to make you understand what I mean...
Next are you going to tell me how much adena you have? How uber your gear is? :eek:
I dont think anyone really belives that NCsoft cant stop 3rd party programs being used in offical servers. just think on this for a wile, like someone said, it it easyer to prove they can do it then they cant. So if NCsoft can do it, why havent they? do they need more $$? not enuf personel? l2 Private servers dont have bots, or very little can get away with it. But if you go to the Spiders Nest on the Bartz server you can count about 30-40 3rd party bots killing for weeks on end. People have emailed support telling them what they need to do to ban the bots, the private severs have done it, so why not NCsoft? This is there game, they can change it in a snap of a finger, but baning 2000 accounts is a lot of $$- thats like 30k a month would you be slow about doing anything about those accounts if 30k is at stake what if it was 10000 accounts? I find it very interesting to see what the WHOLE comunity is up to, as you guys said look at it in a Nutral perpective. I enjoy reading the single minded post, the hyporcirtical posts, the drama post "before they get deleted" i never post here but I know what is going on around me.
Most companies that provide a service do NOT have forums. If they did they would also be heavily moderated. If my local/Regional Telephone company had a forum, I wouldn't expect any less than heavy moderation.
NCSoft is not the only company with an MMO Game in todays market. You are guaranteed a service, and that is what your pay for and recieve. If you do not think you are recieving a reasonable service, you can easily spend your money elsewhere. I know plenty that have done exactly that. The Truth is, nearly every service provided by any company has faults or issues. This is the norm for our technological age. This doesn't mean that the companies should ignore the problem or give up trying to fix the issues. I believe they ARE trying to take care of the problem as best they can. Just because they can ban anyone or everyone they see fit for any or no reason at all, does NOT mean that they should. Likewise, most companies in the field of MMO's realize that it would not be within thier best interrests to do so.
Likewise they also must follow certain Laws of privacy and other such complicated issues no matter how mundane or ridiculous they may seem. I believe that is where the problem stems from.
- this forum exists, since the ingame petition system sucks badly, same with the mail support system, why would we (the customers that have issues to adress) not use the forum?
because we are censored, silenced, made shut up by deleting posts and topics adressing issues.
would you call that moderation?
i wouldnt.
NCsoft is working to resolve the problem, yes.
not only I, many players reported farmers on a regular base, the major part of the farmers, mostly even bots, are still there.
one farmer "clan" in particular has been spotted + reported, glitching (exploiting) trough the door to Zaken wich was closed.
they still roll and exploit their way to zaken. on a sidenote, they have like 20+ accounts online at once.
a player is reported because, when riding a wyvern, for some other players he showed inside antharas lair, while he was flying over and did see himself outside.
the player immediately is banned.
conclusion for me:
who cares about a player, its just 1 person, 1 account, [censored] 15 bucks a month.
farmers? oh you mean those 25 accounts ... well thats 15*25=375 bucks a month, lets just ignore them!
it's not really smart of NCsoft to ignore this kind of issue we players (PAYING CUSTOMERS FFS!) have, since it isnt really hard to talk to games magazines etc.
btw, yes, i can spend my money elsewhere and sooner or later (when the farmers and ebayers > the fun of playing with my friends) i will. as long as its only me, ncsft wont give a [censored].
The same as what the poster before you said about banning bots holds true about moderation. It is much easier to prove that someone can do something than that they can't.
Excessive whining about this problem without getting censored or moderated here is possible. Just because you can't manage to follow a few instructions (aka forum rules), you cry censorship and deletion.
The same as what the poster before you said about banning bots holds true about moderation. It is much easier to prove that someone can do something than that they can't.
Excessive whining about this problem without getting censored or moderated here is possible. Just because you can't manage to follow a few instructions (aka forum rules), you cry censorship and deletion.
I agree, on the other hand i have to ask, why do we have to excessively whine about this issue? maybe, just maybe because the company is ignoring the issue itself?
if someone is doing something within the game rules, the EULA, if it doesnt suit me i have to deal with it.
if someone is constantly violating the rules, how can the company expect me to deal with that by ingame actions within the same rules?
if NCsoft would actually enforce the rules THEY set, there would be no reason for me and others to keep whining about it.
i pay for a service wich is bound to certain rules and i simply expect the service provider to make sure everyone else is staying within these rules ... or am i a 2nd choice customer who has to abide the rules while certain ppl are 1st choice customers and dont have to give a **** about the same rules? are they paying more than me?
i never got offered the service without rules.
no wonder after some time spent without solution, customers get upset.
Nobody's saying NCSoft's handling it well - they're not ignoring it either. For some obscure reason they are working on only to a very limited degree and as pointed out - they are working on it, bots are getting banned.
I agree that it should not be necessary.
Modern MMORPGs should be written to automatically flag suspicious behaviour.
They should be written so that a GM's presence in game can not be noticed by a farmer.
They should probably be written so the client doesn't get a [censored] of information it has no business having.
They should be operated by staff fluent in the language of service (yes, plenty of GMs that speak fine English, but can't read it worth a ****).
There should be a lot of things, but they aren't. The people who came on Monday are whining and moaning about a problem that is somewhere between imagined and irrelevant (the moderation on this board), when they should be (politely) whining about the other things that matter, or just wait for NC to get their act together and ban a few more bots.
On the other hand: Why has Kain been light? Please don't tell me there's been a mass exodus of "legit" players from that server.
On the other hand: Why has Kain been light? Please don't tell me there's been a mass exodus of "legit" players from that server.
I have noticed and remarked on this too. My theory is that NCsoft is testing 'something' on Kain, which seems to be working. My response is, "Go, go, go!"