I understand that +wit is the best way to go for resurrection, but what about the power of normal healing. This increases with matk, so +int is the best??
Ha ha, don't bother, not that you even can. Matk has almost NO EFFECT on heals. The difference between healing with 20 matk and 1000 is like 20 hp difference.
Empower even helps heals. Bsps, effects heals quite a bit. But flat out base matk, no.
I've noticed a drop on my battle heal when I went down by 9 INT, so I assumed it calculated up. I also don't heal significantly better with BSpS with a no grade weapon, but very noticably better with a C Grade one, and the difference is probably even more pronounced with a higher weapon/more int/more magic buffs.
The way this works, I really doubt the game can sense where your MAtk comes from, be it a buff or not.
Do you play a healer? I didn't thnk so. An ES is not a real healer.
I heal for 884 hp with 696 matk. (+7 homu)
I heal for 869 with 125 matk. (NO weapon) Difference of 15 whole HP.
I heal for 1118 with a BSPS. That's 234 more HP over a heal with a high matk weapon.
I heal for 891 with empower 3 which gives me 1144 matk. So an extra 448 matk gives me another 7 whole hp healed.
I heal for 990 with prayer 3, no bsps, no empower.
Hell if you want I'll even put on a demon set with +4 INT and test my heals. But go ahead and make a weapon/tat decision based on me or the pony queen, I've only been playing a bishop since C1 WTF do I know.
No need to be so aggressive - I wasn't actually disagreeing with you, which you might have noticed if you didn't automatically expect a negative retort from me. I'm fairly certain (although who knows, maybe my brain is so broken now that it does censor these things before myself, and I'm too lazy to look now) that that's not the majority of all cases, since I know I agree with you on a fair number of things.
If this is still our disagreement in regards to whether or not the heart of DVC or a rift above the level of a group are "newbie areas," I thought that had been taken care of.
That aside, however, your numbers confuse me. You said up there that empower helps but base MAtk doesn't, but your numbers here seem to be showing (unless I'm reading them wrong) that Empower doesn't help. In that case, that's what the second line in my post was referring too, and I would assume it a simple misunderstanding.
As for the rest, you haven't shown any statistics with BSpS - I thought it was a given that people healed with them, especially in the context of MAtk. From what I have seen and heard, the formula for the bonus effect of a heal doesn't really come into play unless you're operating at extreme MAtks - such as when you're loading a BSpS (approximately 2.7k MAtk with your homu, if that's what you were using for that heal).
If a healer could sacrifice MEN for INT, it might be a valid choice. I never said (or meant, as evidenced by the fact that I removed my own +5INT despite playing as a healer class 99% of my time and as a nuker the other 1%) that MAtk was the be all and end all of healing - just that it, and thereby INT, did indeed have some noticable impact on heal powers.
Some summoners have noticed a significant improvement when switching to an INT build - but of course for a summoner, the switchover is more extreme (around 8 stat points and usually a melee weapon replaced with an arcane one) than for a bishop, and their statistics are usually slightly less accurate (I don't think the one I'm thinking of right now checked the exact new power of his heals, since it's a tricky process without FRAPS).
I'm sorry if I caused confusion, but it seems you need a bit of relaxation just as urgently as me. ;)
That aside, however, your numbers confuse me. You said up there that empower helps but base MAtk doesn't, but your numbers here seem to be showing (unless I'm reading them wrong) that Empower doesn't help. In that case, that's what the second line in my post was referring too, and I would assume it a simple misunderstanding.
The whole problem is one of level and build.
Empower DOES help - but only until you reach a certain level of matk. If you already have a relatively high matk without empower, it does not help much anymore. Same for INT, since all it does is raise matk, too. So you cannot really compare summoners who have outgrown their nukes and use a heavy-hitting melee weapon or bow, and "real" healers who use mage weapons like a staff or a homunculus.
When you use a weapon like an unenchanted or low enchanted homunculus, getting emp3 can give you a boost similar to the prayer buff. When you have a high matk weapon and already have 800-900 matk without empower, getting empower does not do much anymore. But if you have like 500-600 matk without empower, then it can give you a big boost when using blessed sps. Just increasing matk alone does not seem to do much.
E.g. compare in the table linked below homu+3/maj set/no emp3 (655 matk) to bomt/demon set/emp3 (1736 matk): 842 to 858 heal. And then look at homu+3/maj set/no emp3 (655 matk) with blessed to the same, but with emp3 (1072 matk): 1081 heal compared to 1141 heal. In the one case, emp3 gives a boost of 16 heal, while in the other it gives a boost of 60 heal
Instead of talking much, here's a (very ugly) table I made, comparing my SE with various weapons (homu+3, homu+6, bomt) with majestic set and demon set, with and without empower 3 and with and without using blessed spiritshots. Draw your own conclusions. Ah yes, skill is maxed out SE greater heal lvl 74.
As for the OP's question - if you play a "real" healer, there cannot be any question about which tattoo to get. WIT improves your casting speed, which helps land your heals faster, and it improves your res %. And since the only tattoo alternative you get as healer is improving MEN at the cost of WIT (which would make your heals slower and decrease the res %), the choice is clear.
First I'm going to ask which class are you, a bishop, a elven elder, or a shillen elder.
first and primary, as a SE, get +5 wit -5 men and mejestic robes at 61. a SE will not notice any drop in MP poll but you will a slight drop in MP regen..M. robes adds +8% to mp regen rate.
as a prophet (which is not a healer) you don't need a tattoo, and it will only hurt you if you lower your men, cause humins lose abour 300 mp from +4 wit - 4 men. so for a prophet no tattoo.
For a Bishop: I'd disagree; with my last statement, get +4 wit -4 men. and mejestic robes.
EE: I got no clue, but I'd go with SE set up.
For all classes, get a h0mo with acumen, till you hit A/g then get a SoM or desperation with acumen. only exception would be prophet if you want to pvp some you can go carnage with mana up SA.
Elle; hun I totally dissagree.
I tested out differrent weapons and M atk with aliza on the PTS for a reason. and I came to find out that I was healing sanifigantly more with a higher lvl weapon and more M atk. I tested it with a h0mo, and with verious SoM and S/g weapons, and the higher her M atk the more her heals did. (rechange not effected)
Now healers can't touch INT, and if I was a bishop I'd not want to. but you'd think a SE would heal better but thats not really true, bishop does. SE are great when it comes to healing and MP regen. but bishops are better, and EE are best.
Also there is a S grade weapon that has the effect of +% to mp regen. I think it's 8% or 4%, I can't really remember.
First I'm going to ask which class are you, a bishop, a elven elder, or a shillen elder.
first and primary, as a SE, get +5 wit -5 men and mejestic robes at 61. a SE will not notice any drop in MP poll but you will a slight drop in MP regen..M. robes adds +8% to mp regen rate.
as a prophet (which is not a healer) you don't need a tattoo, and it will only hurt you if you lower your men, cause humins lose abour 300 mp from +4 wit - 4 men. so for a prophet no tattoo.
For a Bishop: I'd disagree; with my last statement, get +4 wit -4 men. and mejestic robes.
EE: I got no clue, but I'd go with SE set up.
For all classes, get a h0mo with acumen, till you hit A/g then get a SoM or desperation with acumen. only exception would be prophet if you want to pvp some you can go carnage with mana up SA.
Elle; hun I totally dissagree.
I tested out differrent weapons and M atk with aliza on the PTS for a reason. and I came to find out that I was healing sanifigantly more with a higher lvl weapon and more M atk. I tested it with a h0mo, and with verious SoM and S/g weapons, and the higher her M atk the more her heals did. (rechange not effected)
Now healers can't touch INT, and if I was a bishop I'd not want to. but you'd think a SE would heal better but thats not really true, bishop does. SE are great when it comes to healing and MP regen. but bishops are better, and EE are best.
Also there is a S grade weapon that has the effect of +% to mp regen. I think it's 8% or 4%, I can't really remember.
I really can't settle with this.
1) EE the better healer? :confused: Come on they only have Greater Heal, while SE's have Greater Heal and Greater Group Heal and bishops got all 3 the Greater Heals.
2) Even if you can touch your INT as a healer, doesn't make much difference for it. M attk affects healing in such a minor way, you really shouldn't bother to have high m attk weapons alike a Homu or SOM/SOV. You said you tested it out, I did too, from a NG Falchion to a SOV/Acumen makes 18hp difference, now that's certainly worth all the millions :)
3) What I do agree with you is that acumen is a good SA to have, but can be done through Wit tats and potions too, so it's merely a personal touch imo.
4) Blessed shots increase your healing speed and amount far more then your weapon.
Elle; hun I totally dissagree.
I tested out differrent weapons and M atk with aliza on the PTS for a reason. and I came to find out that I was healing sanifigantly more with a higher lvl weapon and more M atk. I tested it with a h0mo, and with verious SoM and S/g weapons, and the higher her M atk the more her heals did. (rechange not effected)
Look at my table in the post above.
Homunculus+3 + empower + blessed heals for 1145
Branch of the Mothertree + empower + blessed heals for 1159
Sure, if that's enough of a difference for you to buy the 60-70m Branch (plus getting a lvl 12 crystal for acumen...) over a 10m homunculus/acumen, go for it :)
Really, there is a cutoff point. I would say it is at about 800 matk or so, with empower buff (for maxed out heals lvl 74). After that, every 200matk more seem to increase the heal by only 5 points, even if you use blessed sps.
Someone actually posted a graph of the healing power in a post here somewhere, cannot find the post though. It basically confirmed that there is a cutoff point.
Ignore the argument going on in the post and listen.
All healers (with Greater Heals) should use ONE tatoo, thats +4 WIT & -4 MEN. Another +1 WIT -1 MEN would be up to you but i doubt its worth it.
My EE is in BW and has +4 WIT -4 MEN, i have 35 INT, 30 WIT & 35 MEN. I had about 2400 MP before i put the tatoo on and then it went down to 2150 or about that, along with my SoV+Acumen i have a NO BUFFS cast speed of 667. (Dont have Faster Casting Passive Lv 3 yet). Buffed with Acu 3 / Zerk 2 it goes to about 940.
I have Greater Heal 6 (Lvl 54 EE) which i heal for 475 without bsps and 635 with them. Thats a significant difference of 160.
The only real way to improve your heals is by using sps/bsps.
And since the only tattoo alternative you get as healer is improving MEN at the cost of WIT
Actually healers also have physical attributes they can tamper with, if you're going +4 WIT (and not +5), then +4 Dex and +4 Con aren't a bad idea.
As for Maline, M.atk is really insignificant, even in the most extreme of cases, you will still only see a very minor difference, if you get 30 more points, thats really nothing if you're healing a person with 6000 hp with a heal doing 1100 hp healing.
Thanks everyone. My main is a WS, almost ready to subclass. Just before C4 I realized I should 2-box to help level the subclass. Leveling a WS has been very hard, and soloing without buffs/heals is just too much anymore. I boomed a prophet, bishop, and SE to 40. I figured I would decide which to use later. To my delight I have found opportunities to use all three, in combination with my main or other alts. They are all in the level 42-46 range at the moment. Even at these low levels, they can make a big difference in downtime.
Most recently the bishop has been very helpful when doing raids (the other healing classes being already available). I found some hard data on how +wit effects resurrection. I understand what to do with wit. I also wanted to be sure I was doing my best with respect to healing. It seems that int is a small factor, that I can ignore. Now I just need to find cheap +wit tats.
Do you play a healer? I didn't thnk so. An ES is not a real healer.
I heal for 884 hp with 696 matk. (+7 homu)
I heal for 869 with 125 matk. (NO weapon) Difference of 15 whole HP.
I heal for 1118 with a BSPS. That's 234 more HP over a heal with a high matk weapon.
I heal for 891 with empower 3 which gives me 1144 matk. So an extra 448 matk gives me another 7 whole hp healed.
I heal for 990 with prayer 3, no bsps, no empower.
Hell if you want I'll even put on a demon set with +4 INT and test my heals. But go ahead and make a weapon/tat decision based on me or the pony queen, I've only been playing a bishop since C1 WTF do I know.
First I'm going to ask which class are you, a bishop, a elven elder, or a shillen elder.
first and primary, as a SE, get +5 wit -5 men and mejestic robes at 61. a SE will not notice any drop in MP poll but you will a slight drop in MP regen..M. robes adds +8% to mp regen rate.
as a prophet (which is not a healer) you don't need a tattoo, and it will only hurt you if you lower your men, cause humins lose abour 300 mp from +4 wit - 4 men. so for a prophet no tattoo.
For a Bishop: I'd disagree; with my last statement, get +4 wit -4 men. and mejestic robes.
EE: I got no clue, but I'd go with SE set up.
For all classes, get a h0mo with acumen, till you hit A/g then get a SoM or desperation with acumen. only exception would be prophet if you want to pvp some you can go carnage with mana up SA.
Elle; hun I totally dissagree.
I tested out differrent weapons and M atk with aliza on the PTS for a reason. and I came to find out that I was healing sanifigantly more with a higher lvl weapon and more M atk. I tested it with a h0mo, and with verious SoM and S/g weapons, and the higher her M atk the more her heals did. (rechange not effected)
Now healers can't touch INT, and if I was a bishop I'd not want to. but you'd think a SE would heal better but thats not really true, bishop does. SE are great when it comes to healing and MP regen. but bishops are better, and EE are best.
Also there is a S grade weapon that has the effect of +% to mp regen. I think it's 8% or 4%, I can't really remember.
I really can't settle with this.
1) EE the better healer? :confused: Come on they only have Greater Heal, while SE's have Greater Heal and Greater Group Heal and bishops got all 3 the Greater Heals.
2) Even if you can touch your INT as a healer, doesn't make much difference for it. M attk affects healing in such a minor way, you really shouldn't bother to have high m attk weapons alike a Homu or SOM/SOV. You said you tested it out, I did too, from a NG Falchion to a SOV/Acumen makes 18hp difference, now that's certainly worth all the millions :)
3) What I do agree with you is that acumen is a good SA to have, but can be done through Wit tats and potions too, so it's merely a personal touch imo.
4) Blessed shots increase your healing speed and amount far more then your weapon.
I would like you to reread my post, and I ask you: at what point did I say EE was the better healer. there was nothign there where I said that.
I was pointing out that I know very lil of the class, yes they got shafted and have very few buffs or heals. but the EE has a very high MP regen rate (so I've been told many times over the years).
a Bishop is one class I'd love to try and yet haven't gotten around to yet. I know that bishops are the best healers, that cause that is their soul role, and what they are ment to be. also best rezer.
a SE is a hyprid healer/buffer. they are the secound best healers, and a good if not great buffer.
Prophet worist healer, best buffer.
I'm not talking about WC or Ol, but they in a different area.
WC is a great party buffer, but their buffs aren't maxed out as fast as the prophets or SE's.
Maybe geting the SoM isn't worth the money in your openion, but I think it is. and if you got a good ally you can get that lvl 12 SA crys. for free.
Now what I was tring to point out, is I beleave that the higher the weapon the stronger you are. so maybe it makes a difference to you and maybe it don't..But I like to beleave that it does.
You can like to believe whatever you want but the healing difference is almost nil. No reason why a C grade weapon can't last until you sub something else.
You can like to believe whatever you want but the healing difference is almost nil. No reason why a C grade weapon can't last until you sub something else.
And I just second this statement. I'll probably use my emi till 70+
you can do that, but you will save more money if you move off of C grade and into B or A. Cause the use of shots go from 3 down to 1, and the waight of shots is less so you can carry more.
Not a proplem if your a prophet sence they don't use shots.
you can do that, but you will save more money if you move off of C grade and into B or A. Cause the use of shots go from 3 down to 1, and the waight of shots is less so you can carry more.
Not a proplem if your a prophet sence they don't use shots.
I know, but here its also the following rule: If you want to save money, you have to be rich first...meaning first you got to find yourself a B or A grade weapon and then you can start saving on shots and weight.
That's completely correct, but I'm not really into digging up millions to save afterwards.
Exactly. You'd have to use that weapon for like 10 years to cover the sps savings for going up a weapon worth an extra 50 mill or so compared to C grade.
Except unlike shots, an SoM is no loss in value when you buy it. It might go down, or you might sell it for a profit - but you can't treat it like money that's gone.
My point is having 2 less SPS use because it's an A weapon isn't really going to help much. As a healer. There is no boost in heals, so there's no benefit there.
A ghoul staff is about 10 mill on my server. A SOM is 70. That's 60 MILLION difference. Is being able to carry more SS worth 60 MILLION to you? It might be but if you can't afford it it's just silly.
Well, I will agree that I would probably not buy a higher-level weapon as a bishop or elder as long as my root was still landing in PvE. I'm just saying that you can't try to calculate the price of the weapon off against the shot cost.
Just for healing, by the way, I would use a soulfire dirk. Wear a shield, use 2x CBSpS (so it does actually save a significant chunk of money), and provide plenty of MAtk at higher levels (break the 800 mark with emp easily).
the main reason to upgrade to a som is for the added 30% (?) damage in pvp
the main reason not to upgrade is the rediculous price of soul crystals
a +10 (? once again) will have the same mattack and be just as effective as a som and since 30% extra pvp damage is useless to a prophet/bishop/se they really dont need one
Prophets do still use shots if I'm in a small group and they need healing I use my cbsps well healing them bcause it increases the heals because I already know my heals aren't the best and I need that little jump to help them out! I also use CSS for fighting when I'm soloing with my duels or helping out in a group, it's called a battle Prophet look it up :)
Well, the arguement isn't between a +10 Homunkulus' sword or an SoM, but pretty much between a plain Homu or crystal staff and the SoM - the bottom line for me would be the land rate of root.
And yes, it's money removed from the business, but then, if you have 200mil loose that you can invest after covering everything else, there's little problem keeping a homu in your back hand and trying to sell the SoM for profit every day. I used to do that with my D Grade weapons (without a backup at the time), and never had a problem.
Prophets aint considred "healers" anymore. At least they shouldnt. Bad bad heals as you get farther from 40 :D :D :D
Im pretty sure they are talking about pure healers and healer/buffers such as Bishops, SE and EE
Prophets are a hole class appart ^_^
I understand that +wit is the best way to go for resurrection, but what about the power of normal healing. This increases with matk, so +int is the best??
Back to the main topic, get +4 wit -4 men for sure. With your next 2 tat spots get any of these 3 depending on which u like more:
+1 wit -1 men : faster casting speed
+4 con -4 (or -5) str : more hp, more weight (carry more junk), less stun
+4 dex -4 (or -5) str : faster run speed being the main thing here.
Doesn't matter if the healer is an SE, EE or Bish, this works for them all.
The only reason for a healer to get a higher matk weapon is to improve your landing rate of sleep/root and debufs.
If your poor and want to save money use a ng weapon and the free newbie sps you can get from starter towns.
Cheap way to spam heals on mobs too. ^^
Except for an SE. Homun + Empower = Sleep/Root lands.
My point is having 2 less SPS use because it's an A weapon isn't really going to help much. As a healer. There is no boost in heals, so there's no benefit there.
A ghoul staff is about 10 mill on my server. A SOM is 70. That's 60 MILLION difference. Is being able to carry more SS worth 60 MILLION to you? It might be but if you can't afford it it's just silly.
No, 60 million is not worth carryin more ss to me =P Decrease Weight 3 ftw. Besides, i use a +3 SoV anyway, my M.atk still sucks lol. Lv 54 with 402 M.atk (35 INT from BW Set)
Prophets do still use shots if I'm in a small group and they need healing I use my cbsps well healing them bcause it increases the heals because I already know my heals aren't the best and I need that little jump to help them out! I also use CSS for fighting when I'm soloing with my duels or helping out in a group, it's called a battle Prophet look it up :)
ok hun, I know what a battle prophet is.
I'm not includeing them into the discoustion, I'm talking about a prophet that buffs up people then sits on his or her's ***.
They don't need Bsps, unless your playing back up healer, for tinny party's.
@ 49 while in AoE I'll play back up healer for the tanker.but mostly I try to keep my mp above 1500. which isn't easy.
And healers do zero damage in PVP (or close to zero) so the highest matk is not needed.
Well you better look ahead to c5, because that statement will no longer be true. I'm guessing things like mana burn and erase will land better with a high m atk weapon.
Meanwhile, hi m atk weapons are useful for healers NOT for heal strength but for crowd control (sleep/root and in c5, trance.)
Thats why even when people proved a NG weapon with bsps gave almost the same amount of heal as a CG weapon with bsps, I stuck with my more expensive weapon/sps. Crowd control was a large part of what my EE did in parties.
Yeah I'm getting a SoM soon but it's def not for savings on weight capacity. And we'll see how often mana burn and such gets used, as I rarely sleep in large scale pvp esp since our clan is almost entirely mages.