I've seen much subject about dwarves and precisely BH lately.
While people focus on skills etc, we never speak about the real deal.
I won't tell dwarves can't make some money with their skills, i know for facts that we do (got a BH lv 6x and a WS 5x, got also a WC 6x, a BD 5x, EE 6x, PP 5x, SWS 6x so i've seen some different playstyles that suits me).
No, dwarves make money indeed.... but:
- any class can make more money faster if they are willing to. example: in the last 2 days, i made 47 millions (approximately). I spent less than 3 hours actively buying and selling things, everything was done afk (overnight or while i work). No skill (in game skill from a class i mean) is required. Just time and dedication -> learning prices of items.
- about the (against EULA) option to buy adena with real money (see R.Garriot thread), why bother with "money making class" when the most you can expect after 60 levels of spoiling is less than 30$.
Compare those "skills" with the price of powerleveling of a char.... for 30$ you won't get far.
(REM: i don't advertise for this, i'm strongly against powerleveling and adena buying, but we have to mention this because we do all know how much Lineage 2 is influenced by those bad practices, and this is a good base to give a value to something. Basically, it shows that faster leveling skills are much more valuable than some money making abilities).
Those 2 things show how much BH (and WS in a lesser extend since they have a purpose in siege with their golem) is now a really BAD class, because of the games flows and the people who abuse it.
As a BH, i can't do anything else but pray that NCSoft open his eyes and give a boost to the dwarf race, not for the "money making abilities" but for high end content: pvp, raids... in a term of damage dealing capabilites (or new addons to the game mechanics where BH could get a unique and wanted skill, like sieges golems).. this would also help in the general pve context where blunt suffers from the worst design too.
Dwarves would be the richest class if it wasn't for adena buyers and farmers. Adena buyers stop ws from getting really rich as they just buy the adena to get their equipment rather than having to craft it. Farmers stop bh from getting rich as they supply a constant flow of materials that others buy.
Although saying that ws do get very rich, but not as rich as teh cheats do.
Just take a look at the various suggeestions "pro BH" that I made.
The last one being "claim spoil". You do not need cheaters, to make every other char as rich or richer than a BH. You just need greedy people and there are lots of them. Cannot really blame them for being greedy. I am greedy too.
What makes me different from them, is that I did choose a class willingly, who is supposed to be richer than the others, so their is a game mechanical reason for my greed. All the non-dwarves are just greedy, cause they would rather drop dead, than see anyone else have more money then them. They however got no problem with them having more power than we do.
If I were allowed to create an event, it would be a week of "only dwarves may use consumables". That would teach the ignorant scum, where their power comes from.
I think the Dwarf classes are rather boring, especially considering they have such great...ability.
For example in other games Dwarves are masters of metal yes, but are greatly skilled in killing things too. Dwarf slayers etc.
I still think you'll be getting some rather good incentives soon.
Maybe not this Chronicle but in a few, the important part is to think positivly and make good quality reccomendations on suggestions forum rather than "Zomg we R teh Sux!" etc type threads..
I still think you'll be getting some rather good incentives soon.
Erm. If you truely believe that, then I got that bridge forsale to you.. Leads from land of Giran to land of Oren and you may ask for taxes, if you buy it from me for only 100 Million Adena.. Ok ?
I think that dwarves have been cheated out of their birthright in the game. I think it's silly to have to kill creatures for high level recipes, weapon pieces, or armor tempers. I always felt that artisans and warsmith should be the ones to purchase these mats from dwarven village or craft them after they have completed level quests. Scavengers and BH's should do away with the sweep skill and just use spoil when fighting MOBs. When they kill a mob after spoiling, there should be an increase in the amount and/or kinds of mats the mob drops. On average a BH should be able to collect 3 times the raw materials a regular player gets...maybe even more from drops alone. For example, whereas I may get one piece of charcoal from a MOB...as spoiled MOB should drop 3-5 pieces for a BH.
Artisans and WS should be able to get most weapon recipes from dwarf NPC's with the exceptions of Orchish, Elven, and Dark Elven weapons. Those they should have to run quests to obtain the receipes from those respective races...
Also, I think that all dwarves should have the absolute lowest mana use for skills, but crafting should cost them SP....
Do you really play the game to be the richest player? It seems obvious that all the richest players in the game, with the best gear are the best at PvP, even though through potions and shots, one would think they would be the most expensive to play. Well, what can you do. I enjoy the game, because things are difficult to attain, and spending time with people who are fun to hang around. If Johnny X wants to go buy his stuff and then run around like he is Johnny Badass #1, well good for him. If you let that bother you, you are just going to be dissapointed in the end. You will never beat a cheater, but the world is big enough, that you don't even have to play with em if you don't want to. Even after months and months, i enjoy turning the mobs blue, and the sound of a good pole party. :)
i got a ws that just sits in town all day makkes 40-60M a day while im afk so dont you dare say ws's arent needed unless you wantto be useing FP when yout 78
yeah that sounds about right. And you have a team of 100 SE/EE recharging, and people crowded around your feet begging for your craftability. 1.3 billion adena per month. 16 billion adena per year.
Having a money-making class doesn't automatically get you rich. The most important thing is how good you are at taking advantage of the market. Saying you're a dwarf, and thus you should be automatically richer than everyone else.. is pretty funny!
Well I will have to agree. Although I only have a lvl 35 Scavy it isn't like money rolling in...lol.
My buddy has a lvl 52 WS and he makes a little bit selling shots, maybe like 2 mil a night, but that is about it. Mainly we use him to craft shots for ourselves and craft cost, instead of market price...lol. Or to craft gear ourselves if we need it.
My Scavy, i use along with the broken manor system...lol (on kain anyway) I don't really sell mats (unless I really need quick cash) but instead collect them for myself or for clan members. Selling them wouldn't really be worth it because I would rather craft a weapon or something and then sell that, MUCH MORE money...lol.
Really these two dwarves just help out the clan and ourselves. The market is screwed up, and in this way we aren't supporting farmers that much (there are some things you just HAVE to buy from them :mad: )
I wouldn't really say they are money makers, but instead money savers. They give you that little below market price... Then again you need to use money on your dwarf, but happy to say on my lvl 35 I have used probally about 150k and everything else was hand me downs... +6 Glaive FTW...lol.
simple problem is that dwarves were meant to be rich to offset their poor PVP and PVE skills
basically whenever you see another class with a +10 weapon and standing next to them an equal lvl dwarf with a +5 then the plan has failed
not really much NC can do to fix the problem now except give us pvp and pve skills
im considered a moderately rich dwarf....
ive made 40+ million from manor system
ive made 60+ million from infernium ore
ive made 50+ million from a quest (some ppl will know which one)
i wear BW heavy armor
i have 2 low A grade weapons
my jewlery is substandard for my lvl
i have 30 million adena in inventory
really gotta wonder when all that cash went to
yeah that sounds about right. And you have a team of 100 SE/EE recharging, and people crowded around your feet begging for your craftability. 1.3 billion adena per month. 16 billion adena per year.
i don't want to be mean, but i don't think you're anywhere near "rich".
500 mil cash, 2x full A grade armor/jewel/weapons w/SA all safely enchanted, 4x full B armors sets/BO/weapons, 3x full C armor/jewel/weapons ... speaking here. And i don't think i'm that rich. I know some (maybe like 50-100 players) players on kain have much much more than i do (hello cliffen)...
I made this money only buying and selling, everything is LEGIT. Never spent time on quests, nor manoring.
i don't want to be mean, but i don't think you're anywhere near "rich".
500 mil cash, 2x full A grade armor/jewel/weapons w/SA all safely enchanted, 4x full B armors sets/BO/weapons, 3x full C armor/jewel/weapons ... speaking here. And i don't think i'm that rich. I know some (maybe like 50-100 players) players on kain have much much more than i do (hello cliffen)...
I made this money only buying and selling, everything is LEGIT. Never spent time on quests, nor manoring.
you see now ? how much it's broken ?
Youve seen players with more, yes, but youll see a hell of alot more people with less that what you have.
Saying you have all that and dont consider yourself rich is treason.
but having all that by just buying and selling things (which requires no ingame skill) is a trahison to the "money making capabilities" of dwarves.
I would have never been able to buy more than a single A armor "uncomplete" (without helm) set with my spoils...
So ? if i can do it, you can do it too... all you need is some millions (5 mil at least) to begin with and spend time in giran.
It's so easier than leveling a dwarf .... don't you think dwarves are completly screwed ? Shouldn't dwarves get more pvp/pve skills (not for money...) since things got allready out of hand concerning adena and "rich people" ?
Buying low and selling high only works if only few people do it.If every player would play the market, no one would make profit.
Dwarves on the other hand, are always assured of a slow but steady income, no matter what.
???? How that ? with craft shops at 1a, every Glad and his panther can buy soul ore in elmore and craft SS for the same price warsmiths do !
And with the 'spoil sharing ppl' refusing to party a 'non sharing BH'... everyone makes money from spoil.
A : remove the spoil share
B : private craft shops shoud give less SS per craft than Dwarven Craft
C : Dorves indeed need skills to compensate A and B not happening
Assez, do you understand that 'playing the market' exist just because of your complains in the 1st post. Like nameless pointed many classes lose money to level -- dont gain. If you think about you'd understand that unless ppl bring enough money so the price level gap exist you'd never have that.
I,myself, dont considere trading w/ surprsingly-rich-without-resason mentally legit... This is what you have done to offest your dwarf inability to make 'adena'.
legit only means that i didn't break any close of the EULA, never scammed either..
I'm not here to judge people who buy adena, they do what they want with their money. As for me i don' t need this service (and don't like it only because it promotes botting, raid farmers.. etc) and really enjoy getting profit. This, takes time and dedication. If someone don't want to do it, i understand and that's probably why so few people do it (and why it works so well).
Now if i still do it, it 's not because i need it.. but because i like it ! that's one of the best part of the game to me.
I cant comment for WS, but being a lvl 65+ BH I can make money.
I either
-solo at beast farm where spoils are good and solo is possible.
-go rift 70+ and share all good spoils between all members after party.
True share spoil makes all members of party equal, but the BH is the only char that can do "parties with BH included" all the time.
thank you for the advice... now tell me how rich you are please ?
don't you feel disapointed that anyone can make adena more efficiently than you (and any BH) without any (ingame) skill and that they can fully play a class that
- levels faster
- can pvp
- is usefull in raids
sure BH and WS make money, but playing those class to be rich is one of the worst way of making money in this game... so.. pointless.
i'm glad you disagree with me, at least someone still believe in the BH class...
Maybe the higher warsmiths make all the money--I don't know.
I haven't reached 50 yet so crafting isn't much help to me.
I love playing a dwarf in the game--unfortunately he's about as welcome as a ****** in church in parties/groups.
I can't see any real advantage to the warsmith thus far in game. Leveling is slow, no attack specials, no magic....they carry a lot of stuff and can make shots for almost no profit.
The golem is cost prohibitive to use through c-grade....
I gotta lean toward "worst class" in answer to your OP question.
My ws can't do anything to make money in the market that is unique so far. Anyone of any race/class could have bought and sold what I have (with the exception of a few plate shields I churned out cause I had the pieces by the ton).
Buying someone's cast-off salamander at 1.5m and making it +3 for 300k in ead's and selling it for 2.2m is open to everyone...............