manor questions

ok I have never owned a castle or been in a clan that has owned a castle so I have some questions about the system from the outside lol
Are you unable to purchase back 4x the number of fruit to the seeds you sell? {ie. sell 100seeds buy 400fruit}
would this be a giant loss to the castle ? or is it just not able to be set that way?
When seeding I usually get a 3 per fruit average using chars at levels optimal to the seed and searching for mobs that give 3-4 fruit per. I know setting it to 4x would be a little overkill but then the market could sell back all its fruit.
If its too big a loss then how about atlest 3x fruit purchase to seed sales.

Now like I said I dunno if this is possible even, seems how I have never seen or read the interface for the manor system so someone who knows could they let me know ...

thanks

I think most castle lords set the buy back at max but the game limits them and it is too little, I agree. Hard to sell back crops especially the popular ones :confused:

It's possible to do this by reducing the number of seed sales, but most castle lords that can sell their seeds will, since it means extra profit. It's not in their interest to "drain the market".

ok then nobody who has ever done the manor system wants to answer eh ... it seems the only people who responded are also speculators ...
AND this thread was moved so I hope it gets seen by someone who does know the manor system...

thanks

ok then nobody who has ever done the manor system wants to answer eh ... it seems the only people who responded are also speculators ...
AND this thread was moved so I hope it gets seen by someone who does know the manor system...

Hmm... why are you so demanding? you have got an answer already - Maline post contains all you need.

Well... if you want the answer from manor lord, here is one.

You can set up the amount of seeds and crops as you wish in limits the game provides. Prices and amounts a absolutely independant to each other.
It's quite possible to set up zero seed amount and maximum crops amount. It happens on regular basis for Dion manor for high level seeds, since there are no convenient territories to implement seeds in. Cruma tower is the only high-level Dion area, yet not that high and not that popular.

It's quite possible to set up maximum seeds amount and zero crops buyback quita. I have done it in Giran for few alternative seeds I wanted to keep control on (greatly overpriced, dedicated for clan seeders).

It's quite possible to set up 1/2 of seed quota and full crops buyback quita. I have used this set up for about a month in Giran. Not to say I won anything from it though.

It's quite possible to set up 1/4 of seed quota and full crops quota.

But...

It's impossible to increase buyback quota over current limits.

Manor lord target in seed/crop management is to garantee full buyback of fruits. The more the better. Moreover, more seeds won't hirt this ever. Manor lord doesn't care of who seeds and sells crops to him/her. Be it botter, legit player or someone else. Manor only pays for buyback and makes profits through castle item creation system.

If some fool buys all seeds, manor lord will get more money. But some fools in addition lose seeds, and don't produce enough crops to fill in the system limit. Why should manor lord risk his/her buyback amounts of crops in attempts to "normalise" seeds/crops ratio?
There is only thing you can win off limiting seeds amount to "normal" amounts - hindering other manor systems (like mentioned Dion one) that can't produce crops of the type effectively. Anyway it will be loss-loss relation for owners of two systems: seed producer will get less money out of seed sales, alternative crop buyer will get less money due to lack of crops buyback.

Uhm, wth?

I'm not a "speculator" when I post about the manor and there isn't a question mark next to it. I have helped a few manor lords set up, I use the manor actively, and I observe it fairly closely.

Uhm, wth?

I'm not a "speculator" when I post about the manor and there isn't a question mark next to it. I have helped a few manor lords set up, I use the manor actively, and I observe it fairly closely.

you dont help me you just annoy me!

Did you read this?
Manor System Guide (http://boards.lineage2.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=153454&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#153454)
I found it very usefull

ok now that was a great post thank you both. the link to the previous manor explanation was also very helpfull....

oow let me see if I can get you to help me understand why the system is working the way it is...

according to the past post . the only way you actually lose any money on the manor as a castle lord is if you OVER buy the seeds... now to buy the fruit is no loss at all just a temporary tie up of funds . but when you are getting things like enchant weapon scrolls from the fruit it would quickly make the temporary locking of funds to buy the crops more then worth it ...
in fact if you didnt risk the losses of any seed sales and were able to buy all the fruit harvested from the other castles you would actually end up even farther ahead ... in fact I would think that having fruit in peoples inventory's would actually be a loss to a castle lord everyday ... IE: if I get 1 ench weapon scroll for every 100fruit why would I not want to buy as much fruit as possible? the seed is not the money at all if anything it looks like a loss to me ... so again I say why not try to buy 4x the fruit back ?
this isnt an instant money deal ofcourse its a wait a day or two deal for the castle lord {crop maturation} like a short term investment.
econimics says to me that either not selling the seeds is the only loss potential and I think the lets say 100k - 1m in seed sales doesnt come close to the millions + enchant weapons and bless rez's can get you ...
How can people having fruit in their inventory make any money for the castle lord ? he would make more money not selling any seeds and just buying fruit for the item profits ...

please if I am totally confused enlighten me

and thanks again for the great posts so far

Well, even if I could, I wouldn't help you, so there!

It's definitely not you I was talking about. :mad:

Unfortunately, you are totally confused :(

the only way you actually lose any money on the manor as a castle lord is if you OVER buy the seeds...

Wrong. The systems works like this (supposing you are castle lord):
1) You pay 10% off base seed price to produce it (money are taken from castle vault at 6am)
2) You get full amount of money person pays for seed (seed price, money are put to Castle Vault after a manor day), that is, you make money selling seeds for any price (you can sell seeds for 60%-1000% off base seed price)
3) You pay full amount of money person gets resources for (crop price, money are taken from castle Vault at 6am)
4) You get 90% of bought crops to clan warehouse
5) You craft items paying castle crafter in cash (money are taken from your own inventory).
6) You sell item.

now to buy the fruit is no loss at all just a temporary tie up of funds . but when you are getting things like enchant weapon scrolls from the fruit it would quickly make the temporary locking of funds to buy the crops more then worth it ...

For sure manor is a profitable thing for castle lord, otherwise noone will bother about manor. You can easily make like 100 million profit a week with the help of manor.

in fact if you didnt risk the losses of any seed sales and were able to buy all the fruit harvested from the other castles you would actually end up even farther ahead ... in fact I would think that having fruit in peoples inventory's would actually be a loss to a castle lord everyday ...

Wrong. Seeds in people inventories will increase chance for enough crops sold to mano lord.

so again I say why not try to buy 4x the fruit back ?

They can't. There is hard limit on crops buyback per manor day for each seed. For example, dion manor has hard limit of 4666 Blue Coda crops bought per manor day. Manor lord can't set up manor for a day buying 12k Blue codas.
Generally, limits are set according to castle and seed/crop price. Crop with twice as much base price will have twice as low limit.
Manor production depends on the same factor. So you can craft equal amount of items out of each seed with one exception.

Exception: there are two types of crops - ones for enchant scrolls and ones for anything else. You can't craft enchant scrolls using Blue coda and you can't craft QHP using Golden coda.

How can people having fruit in their inventory make any money for the castle lord ? he would make more money not selling any seeds and just buying fruit for the item profits ...

Wrong. Manor lord makes moey selling fruits. A quick example for you.
Once upon a time I've decided to put alternative seeds in play.
It was a though decision, since nearly noone wants to farm them :( Fortunately, there was a person in my clan who wanted to farm the seeds.
I wanted to increase chance for him to buy mentioned seeds to harvest.
So I've set up seed price for alternative great codran to 1000 adena and put like 3000 alternative seeds for sale (it's enough for like 2-3 days of seeding for the person).
After manor maintenance I've found out that all seeds were bought by some fool. I can't name the person buying seed other than fool, since I have not set up crop buyback for this seed type at all.
Moreover, the mentioned fool completely bought another alternative seed type for another 3 million.
So I've made like 6 millions profit not even bothering about crafting, selling etc. Just for a record, you don't make that much through crafting of mentioned seeds (crop limit allows you to craft about 1 enchant weapon A per 4 days of manor wth full buyback).

If people will buy all overpriced seeds and sell all underpriced crops, manor lords will be just happy. Fortunately, internal concurrency among manor lords in addition to moral aspects of manor system makes things a bit better than that.

ok so there are limits to the buy back thanks for finally answering that question clearly...
so in fact due to the limits set by ncsoft on buyback you cant hit the happy medium of sales and purchase of Seeds and Fruit ...
Now pretend for a minute that people realized what you did and you continued to put your alternative seeds up ... sooner or later you would end up having left over seeds and according to the Guide that would mean lost money ...
Now one thing I do know is ncsoft tends to not be reliable on its descriptions even on this website and ingame things tend to work differently ...
BUT my thought is so you squeezed "XYZ"adena from said player but if you didnt sell your other seeds that day you would have ended up losing overall ...
For buyback though if you dont buy back the total amount you want that day the money is just returned to your bank.

and please stop trying to act all doin it for the server and such this is a discussion about options for the manor not woohoo I am so righteous look at me.

thanks

so in fact due to the limits set by ncsoft on buyback you cant hit the happy medium of sales and purchase of Seeds and Fruit ...

Just noone wants - there's no motivation for it.

Now pretend for a minute that people realized what you did and you continued to put your alternative seeds up ... sooner or later you would end up having left over seeds and according to the Guide that would mean lost money ...

BUT my thought is so you squeezed "XYZ"adena from said player but if you didnt sell your other seeds that day you would have ended up losing overall ...

Wrong. Guide is outdated... at best.

So, what's you question?

you answered the question by not having a clear response to the second statement .
I am to believe that if you dont sell all the seeds you dont take a loss ... so yes the quide is wrong and ncsoft has set up a system that does little to benefit anyone but a few and the castle owners .

thank you for your information even though it was like pulling teeth from a badger ...

Synopsis is sell as many seeds as you can . buy as much as you can . keep market for mats offbalance and not care cause ncsoft doesnt either ;)
no problem status quo I guess
and dont take this wrong it has nothing to do with you its with NCSOFT . by what you say they shouldnt have any limits on buy back why not let the manor lord buy as much as he wants or has money for ... its too bad the quide isnt right it had a good setup from what I was readin very balanced ... perhaps you could READ it and let me know what is right and wrong in it ... or if you could would you please READ it and reWrite the guide for everyone.

Thanks again

and dont take this wrong it has nothing to do with you its with NCSOFT . by what you say they shouldnt have any limits on buy back why not let the manor lord buy as much as he wants or has money for ...

Not exacly, then one castle can buy of all the crops if it has a higher price then others, there should be limit on buy back, but it should be like 2-3 times more then seed amount, imxo. This was already sugeseted a few times on these boards..

wow, no limit on buy backs?? That would ruin the whole balance of the game...there would be no effort in crafting

I've written it here (http://boards.lineage2.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=suggestions&Number=599306& Forum=f28&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=598810 &Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=9010&daterange=1&n ewerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypre v=#Post599306) once:

Unlimited buyback will make manors competitiveness way too unpredictable. People will turn in crops only to most profitable castle regardless. All other castles will be screwed. It's not that good after all.

Instead of increasing amount of seeds, developers can improve seed consumption rates. That is, once you plan seed on multiple hp mob, you spend more than one seed. It will make seed-crop rates quite reasonable.

And once again:

Currently manor system is limited in production value. You have equal amount of products you can make out of each seed/crop type. And it differs among castles.
There are no differences between manors (for manor lord) other than that. Restrictions removal for manor systems will render all castles indistinguishable in regards of manor (from the manor lord point of view).
There will be no point in wishing Aden rather than Dion, for example.
For record, you can produce all sorts of products in all castles already.

I'd like to suggest lower limit on seeds amount. Making it 1/2 or current possibilities will settle turnout problem. Even though seed acuisition will be harder - it will become the bottleneck for the system.

Also I've suggested "Manor week" event:
here (http://boards.lineage2.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=suggestions&Number=524241& Forum=,,f28,,&Words=&Searchpage=2&Limit=25&Main=52 4241&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=9010&daterange =1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bod yprev=#Post524241)

Can't say I was heard by developers (at least I've not seen any sign of it).

According to castle owner in-game help all unused assets locked for seed production come back to castle vault at the end of manor day.

By the way, there was an interesting glitch in the system during C3. You could seed chest box and get up to 40 crops per seed.

Quick run through official manor page (http://www.lineage2.com/Knowledge/manor.html)

A manor is the area in which the lord of each castle has a productive effect upon his own territory. He sells seeds in his territory and carries out productive activities with the seeds that are sold.

Sale of Seeds

Seeds sold in one's own territory bestow monsters with the ability to produce farm products. The types of farm products that can be produced by a monster vary according to the seed types. The types of seeds that can be made, as well as the maximum amount sold, are fixed according to the manor.

The lord of the castle chooses the types and quantities of seeds to be sold by NPCs and chooses how much to sell to consumers. Not absolutely correct: castle lord determines quantities of seeds to be sold, but they all are sold to customers. Castle lord can't buy seeds himself. Then, the castle lord is notified by the NPC how much adena he needs to invest. Depending on how many are sold, the unit price for each seed is then decided; the unit price goes down as the quantity goes up. I've never seen uni price change The seed and item compensation prices may be viewed by speaking with the particular castle's Grand Chamberlain.

The manor NPC announces the sale of seeds at the consumer price at the same time that the invested amount is taken from the castle warehouse. Wrong. Announcement for next day is done immediately, but money are taken from castle vault at 6am. If there is not enough money, the sale of seeds on that day is cancelled. It is not possible to sell during a siege. Wrong, it's possible t sell during siege.

Players can purchase seeds from the Manor Manager of their particular territory. In order to prevent hoarding, one player cannot purchase all of the seeds. Wrong. Player can buy as many seeds as he wants.

The amount earned from selling through the seed-selling NPC is brought each day to the castle warehouse, just like taxes. Wrong: taxes go to castle vault, seeds go to clan warehouse

or if you could would you please READ it and reWrite the guide for everyone.

It may take few days, but I'll try to compile up-to date guide for manor.

thank you very much .

I wish NCsoft would see how this is not working the way they have written it .. its like a bug that they just wont fix