I've been leading/tanking in RB groups every day for 3 weeks now. Its gotten me from 20-49 in that amount of time. Now, i have never, EVER had a problem keeping aggro using Hate and Hate Aura. All of a sudden, OVERNIGHT im loosing aggro on almost every boss i do... The same bosses ive killed dozens of times, without a hitch, im now loosing aggro to. Now, my first thought was maybe i need my next rank of hate to keep up with my nukers. I got my next rank today, same problem... i lost aggro to a lvl 49 SE Recharging me.... and couldnt get it back. I sat there, spammed Hate and hate aura untill my mana, and my rechargers mana was empty, the boss didnt budge.
What could be the reason for this, its gettin kinda stupid now... how is it that i cant keep aggro all of a sudden, even when i SPAM hate like a ******, the boss still leave mid fight. I dont know wth is goin on.
hate becomes much less effective at higher levels it seems. You still should have been able to hold the aggro...are you fighting with the same parties all the time? Hate is taking more mana so is there more recharging needed? As nukers gain levels they get much much more powerful once they hit their main class at level 40 as well.
My group is more or less the same every time, its built as follows.
Me - 49 Temple Knight, Full Plate Set, +4 SLS Focus.
2 lvl 49 and 50 Shilen Elders. 1 Charges and heals me, the other supports the group.
the other 6 are a assortment of nukers. Usually 2 or so SPS, a summoner and the rest Sorc or SH.
Now i realize they hit almost exponentially harder as they get higher, but i am getting new ranks of hate with them. If this is ineed the way aggro is going to become as i get higher, holy [censored] i dont know how folks do bosses like Orfen and Antharas...
Well Raidsbosses also attak players that dont attak for a while. So if they do nothing they might get agro and u cant get hate back untill that player is dead.
Beside that buffing and doin a lot damage also takes agro away from you. U can see that very easy with a star hatch that spams his burst.
Well, I know when we do raidbosses and teh tank losses aggro, all the nukers have been trained to stop attacking to the tank can get it back. If the SE recharging you pulled aggro she should have stopped what she was doing 'till you could pull it back. Of course, if you were really low on mp it probably wasn't possible to do that either.
As you get higher, the more you have to hate, the faster you have to hate, and the more you have to hate. If you're hitting on it still, you don't get to do that any more. If you'd like some more tips, take a look at my tanking guide (http://www.lineage2.com/guide/guides_tanking3.html) on the official site. It might offer you some advice in your more 'elder' levels. :D
Well, I know when we do raidbosses and teh tank losses aggro, all the nukers have been trained to stop attacking to the tank can get it back. If the SE recharging you pulled aggro she should have stopped what she was doing 'till you could pull it back. Of course, if you were really low on mp it probably wasn't possible to do that either.
Well, i find that in most boss fights that are any type of REAL fight, the bosses hp vs your nukers and healers MP is a critical aspect that has to be managed. Ive trained my nukers to do the exact opposite. I tell them, if they pull aggro to stand STILL, dont run around... but continue to attack while i get it back. If all the nukers stopped attacking, and it took me 30 seconds to get it back, thats ALOT of hp regained by the boss, and you may have just lost the fight.
But glav, its interesting youd say i shouldnt be hitting it anymore. I found the only way i can keep aggro anymore is if i swing, HATE, swing, HATE, HATE, HATE lol. I was thinking i shouldnt need to spam, but it looks like i need to start spamming more.
Debuffs work marvellously for drawing aggro off buffs - of course, TKs are sorta SOL with that one, entangle being slow casting and all that. Keeping the boss entangled, if you have the time, is nonetheless a good idea, as it will make it easier for your nukers to leg it when they have aggro - the single nuker who has aggro should stop attacking while you get it back.
Also remember that NPCs prefer targets standing close to them - so do run up close, and have your nuker attempt to put some range between you and the boss.
Well, I know when we do raidbosses and teh tank losses aggro, all the nukers have been trained to stop attacking to the tank can get it back. If the SE recharging you pulled aggro she should have stopped what she was doing 'till you could pull it back. Of course, if you were really low on mp it probably wasn't possible to do that either.
Well, i find that in most boss fights that are any type of REAL fight, the bosses hp vs your nukers and healers MP is a critical aspect that has to be managed. Ive trained my nukers to do the exact opposite. I tell them, if they pull aggro to stand STILL, dont run around... but continue to attack while i get it back. If all the nukers stopped attacking, and it took me 30 seconds to get it back, thats ALOT of hp regained by the boss, and you may have just lost the fight.
But glav, its interesting youd say i shouldnt be hitting it anymore. I found the only way i can keep aggro anymore is if i swing, HATE, swing, HATE, HATE, HATE lol. I was thinking i shouldnt need to spam, but it looks like i need to start spamming more.
Im going to read your guide.
I dont think you are really teaching anyone anything...everyone wants nukers to sit still. The only problem is if it is a pickup group the nuker is sure as heck not going to trust his group to heal properly.
Last raid I was in the group was healing me so I felt fine sitting there and tanking the raid because I knew I would get healed...if not, run run run.
I usually tank for my alliance longhorn and many of the 70+ bosses. All I do is spam hate and hate aura the entire time with panther attcking as well. Just teh other day at longhorn I ran outta mp and so did my healers we tried to get another tank to get aggro off of me but even after liek 30 seconds of not casting hate once and runiin in circles it never came off me. Once I died it jumped to the next tank and then got to about 3 of the nukers b4 he died. (gogo rushing to beat the farmers ^^) So hate should still work just need keep on it the entire time.
On my SK ive noticed that once agro is pulled off me, i cant get it back. It may be because the phantom ranger in my party is critting for however much, but its happened 3 or so times. So it isnt just you ^^
This is a crazy Idea but I might try it one day.....using Horror (Fear) on Raid boss. would really only work on Raid boss in a small place such as rift or cata.
Make a marco to hit hamstring then horror......if it lands fight on. the boss would run into the wall and would stay there for about 30 sec.
then start hating again after it runs off
Bad part is it is hard to get horror (fear) to land.
but for me to keep aggro ......hate swing count to 2 hate. does ok..
Bosses seem random sometimes. The smaller the raid party, the more random it seems to get IMO. The faster the boss drops the better. Even distribution of damage by your dd's is also important. The basic idea is that nobody should be doing more work than anyone else. If one person is doing more during a raid, the boss tends to look his way. That's my personal opinion....though sometimes I've seen 7x bosses run after chars that have been afk sitting since well before the raid started. Bosses can simply be weird...
Personally speaking, I hardly ever hit a raid boss as a Paladin (level 51). (This is why I use a +HP SoD instead of higher patk SLS). I hate, hit once or twice, hate, repeat. Hardly ever lose the aggro, though it still happens sometimes for a few seconds. Also of course, I need a darn good recharger in the group who doesnt need to concentrate on healing. RBs above lvl 50 start to get tough for mana in my experience with 1 group.
To OP--I had similar experiences. IMO the game is MORE unbalanced at lower levels (RB 20-40) as the team members rise in levels . Your spells 'power' (hate/aggression) at lvl 40 is around 1100, maybe 1200 (forget).
In the high level 30's it's 900 or less.
Once nukers in particular are buffed and have really good d-weapons they REALLY land some thunder on the boss. If you notice, one of them will often make 3 or 4 big shots in a row right when you lose aggro to them. They are hitting for a lot more than your 'hate' is landing for. Same with some archers--depending upon their bow, buffs.
I've come to believe that when we were all at lvl 28 and no one had uber weapons and really good buffs--the more 'simple' bosses could be held easier to the tank...I could be wrong.
Basically I think the power of the group, combined with great weapons and buffs (many even have alliance alts come and OVER buff them b4 raids--giving buffs the raid team wouldn't even have available) unbalance the value of hate.
Besides--letting the archer tank for a minute makes them appreciate us more :)
Well, I know when we do raidbosses and teh tank losses aggro, all the nukers have been trained to stop attacking to the tank can get it back. If the SE recharging you pulled aggro she should have stopped what she was doing 'till you could pull it back. Of course, if you were really low on mp it probably wasn't possible to do that either.
Well, i find that in most boss fights that are any type of REAL fight, the bosses hp vs your nukers and healers MP is a critical aspect that has to be managed. Ive trained my nukers to do the exact opposite. I tell them, if they pull aggro to stand STILL, dont run around... but continue to attack while i get it back. If all the nukers stopped attacking, and it took me 30 seconds to get it back, thats ALOT of hp regained by the boss, and you may have just lost the fight.
But glav, its interesting youd say i shouldnt be hitting it anymore. I found the only way i can keep aggro anymore is if i swing, HATE, swing, HATE, HATE, HATE lol. I was thinking i shouldnt need to spam, but it looks like i need to start spamming more.
Im going to read your guide.
I guess it depends on the groups you have. The mages don't run around like chickens with their heads cut off either cause then the tank can't catch up to the RB to get aggro back. So far the combination of stopping the nuking and not running away from the boss ( and usually the tank as well) has worked for us.
when my clan does raid bosses i usually have 1 or 2 stunners in the tank party. The whole object of the stunners (Dwarfs Glads with blunts Tryants destroyers other tanks like DAs/Paladins) Is so if agro is lost the raid boss isnt going to go far to go randomly kill an archer or nuker.
I suggest you add a stunner or two to your raid group it will help you maintain agro easier.
Well yesterday i tried a few different Hate/Swing patterns to see what worked best.
I found when i Hate, 2 swings, Hate rinse and repeat, i seldom ever loose aggro. At the same time, this is HELL on my rechargers MP, but it worked. After RBs were down, I spent all **** DAY grinding in Cruma 2 on Dark Lord groups... which i noticed to be very different in aggro.
Id grab 2 groups at one time... thats 2 DLs, and about 10 adds. I hate 1 Dark lord, then use Hate aura... just those 2 spells, 1 each, and NOTHING leaves me. I can stand there the rest of the fight, with nothing budging. It looke like different mobs have different aggro dynamics (yay for complicated aggro!!! xD). Im hoping when i hit 52 today, my new ranks of hate and hate aura make a diff.
Due to everyone saying i need to hit it less and less, i decided to go with a Art of Battle Axe SA Health apposed to the TK favorite Damascus Focus. With doom heavy, and my AoBa SA, ill have nearly 3400 HP at lvl 52 (not that it matters, i never really get my *** kicked its more about my MP then HP atm.) We will see how it goes, im going to start taking down the lvl 50-54 Bosses once my group reaches B grade, got about 3 or 4 more people to get to 52.
Thanks for all the info guys, its really helped with my RB tanking thus far.
Oh, as far as debuffs go, EVERY time a necro lands gloom the boss walks over to him/her, slaps her in the face and comes righ back, its hillarrious lol. Im going to start packing sps and useing entangle to pull RBs (Entangle, Hate, Hate Aura then get into my hate/swing strat.) Ill use ent when i get a chance, to see if it makes a difference. To bad TKs dont get more debuffs, would be nice to be able to stack debuffs on a target, as ive seen it ****** RBs off somethin fierce.
I guess I forgot to add that i had about 30 Reflect damage on and the boss was hittin himself for 300-500 dmg every time he hit me that would probably be why ^^...