Is it time to start a(nother) discussion as to which buffer is best for melee class? Ok, let's.
Which is better for melee classes in general, but archer and dagger classes specifically -- a prophet, EE or an SE? Why?
Prophet. SEs are fantastic melee buffers, but Prophets have Zerk and Haste. That's better for melee IMO (at least in PvP). In PvE, all buffers are created equal. Shrug... Plus Prophets can fight.
But SEs do have a 1-up on Prophets, and that is Empower. Empower is amazing. Absolutely amazing. Of course, it doesn't do much or anything for melee classes, but there you have it. Amazing anyway!
Warcryer is the best Melee buffer for damage in general, they also have some good shield buffs as well
Anyhow, why I say Warcryer is becose they have hte crit buffs, they have haste, they have berserk spirit and not only that, they have VR.
Only shield buff WC got is the regular shield lvl 3. And I guess you can count evasion here as well, it's also a defencive buff and works good with dagers. Also WC do not have zerk, that's an OL stuff.
But yeah, WC is the best, and it can also fight and not buff and then sit/stand behind the DD's.
Im in love with WCs so Id have to say Warcryer but with the options give its really class specific decison.
Daggar = SE (VR is better then zerk in this case imo, specially with the c5 nerf coming up)
Archer = Prophet - SE is totally useless here
Tank = Prophet - Much better tank buffs like btb and Bless sheild
WL = SE obviuosley VR is a huge factor here
Gladis can go either way its a choice of play style. - But mabye SE because Gladis occasionally whip out their surprise pole and that always causes havoc for the healer if the gladi isnt the main tank ><
I would say SE myself. A Prophet has great buffs, but after mid 30s they dont get any more heals than what they already have. Whereas an SE gets relatively the same buffs as a Prophet with an addage of getting bigger and better heals past level 40.
blah blah blah.... SE> then PP... yeah w/e I say your lame shut up about your big boob chicks.
you need to look at your skill stes and what your geting in C5, PP is geting the best skill sets with greatter might and greatter shield.(lvl 56 -1, 66 -2, 74 -3) 20 minute buff that uses 1 to 3 spirit ore to cast it. stacks with might or shield not with each other.(I think EE get it to, mite be SE)
Zerk is geting the shaft in C5, which sucks. (it was fine the way it was, stop fulling around with it)
BTB,BTS, more MP more HP... where as Staff of evil spirits has SA BtB 5. archers tend to have a MP self buff. so they get a BTS, but it's not as strong.
Haste, you can buy haste in a bottle, but why pay for it when you can have it for free!
personally, I think PP > SE > EE. when it comes to buffs. Specailly when C5 comes. Just get a freind that has a SE or EE.
Also note, HE gets a BtM at 58. give back like 48 mp for like 365 hp, or something like that.. with armors and the right weapon/SA and buffs you can haveyour mp back in no time.
SE are top buffers IMO. They have VR for fighters, Empower for mages, MP recharge for all!!!( Dwarfs really love them). And all that since lvl 30. U have to wait till a PP reach his lvl 44 to have haste and bless buffs.....
And we talk for duos or small parties....if a full party get buffed either from profet or SE after this both chars lost most of theit MP and that is problem...
Warcryers are better buffers for full parties and dont forget Party Recall that EE have to save all party mates at once!!
Prophet is the best for melee classes. They have magic barrier, zerk, haste, BTS & Blessed Shield. The only thing thats missing is the VR from an elf.
I need to disagree with this, from personal experience. Although archers tend to like haste, that's easy to come with these days via a potion. A Shillien Elder gets focus, death whisper and guidance which are the major things for archers.
Bar buffs, having recharge and actual heals helps a lot as well, because later on archers get hit a lot as well. Kiting isn't what it used to be anymore.
I need to disagree with this, from personal experience. Although archers tend to like haste, that's easy to come with these days via a potion. A Shillien Elder gets focus, death whisper and guidance which are the major things for archers.
Bar buffs, having recharge and actual heals helps a lot as well, because later on archers get hit a lot as well. Kiting isn't what it used to be anymore.
Which is the reason I decided to retire my prophet permanently, and instead relevel an se from lvl 1 rather than keeping a prophet. Why?
Because prophets are useless now. That's my opinion. Zerg = screwed, heals suck compared to ee or se, no vr, no advanced block, no wild magic, no empower, and most importantly no recharge.
For a class thats supposed to be full buffer, they sure as hell are getting shadowed by hubrid buffers which totally sucks for them.
SE is the best buffer overall, and a very good healer too. They are the best buffers for nukers with empower. Yes they miss acumen, but it comes in a freekin potion. Why doesn't vr come in a potion :mad:?
Prophets lose their acumen because it comes in potion. They lose haste because it comes in potion, they lose ww like the se and ee because it comes in potion. What do they have left that? Nothing.... Yes you can get these buffs for free and not pay adena, but why drag a prophet with you or use one in a party, when you can have these buffs when you want, wherever you are.... It's sad, but true.
And EE's aren't really useful now. They have bts and advanced block which as a tank I would love so much to have, but I would take vr, focus, death whisper over it anytime. One thing that drew me to EE's however is their high rez, party recall, high lvl bts. But in the end, I still decided to go with an SE. Just better overall in my opinion. Maybe that's why they're getting left out in c5...
But EEs are not buffers, they are safety net providers (healing, CC, PR...) with good recharge abilities and with some good but currently underrated buffs (Resist Shock, Decrease Weight, Resist Poison...).
I need to disagree with this, from personal experience. Although archers tend to like haste, that's easy to come with these days via a potion. A Shillien Elder gets focus, death whisper and guidance which are the major things for archers.
Bar buffs, having recharge and actual heals helps a lot as well, because later on archers get hit a lot as well. Kiting isn't what it used to be anymore.
Theyres a reason i said this. Aside from VR, SE and PP have the same buffs but the PP also has Haste (and others). So yeah PP over SE for archers, considering VR doesnt effect ranged attacks. And the PP heal subs just fine because the archers arent going to get hit all that much by other melees, when theyre fighting a nuker the only way they can expect to stay alive from a healer is if the healer is an EE or a Bishop. Casting speed ftw.
SE's are the top buffers for any class. Let me explain
Prophets are pretty much bottled, btb and btm dont really make a difference except for the first round through mp anyway.
Anyway
acumen-pot
haste 2-pot
that basically takes proph out of running for first place.
Now, lets look at the SE and in a smaller part the EE
Mage-Recharge, quite possibly one of the best spells in the game for a pve'r and possibly the best even competing with emp3. I have a level 53 se w/ 2500mp w/ homu w/ exchange. This means with emp 3 I have about 2450 mp that adds right onto my mana bar. Emp3 more than doubles matk early on and later in the game it adds a huge boost and undeniably makes the SE the best choice for mage.
Archer-High crit buffs here some are shared with prophet so things could be pretty even...but wait, here comes recharge again. I can level nonstop no rest with my archer getting recharged. SE wins this one again.
Melee-VR, ok thats all that needs to be said.
If you have money, SE is undeniably the best in all these categories. If you want to be a real penny pincher a prophet may work for you because you dont have to pay for pots and can use the prophet to heal. Although I would settle for alicrity 1 pots all the time for the bonuses of an SE. I am still dumbfounded how they can make such a vastly superior buffer and either pot the other buffs or make the other buffers plain worse. I cannot believe this can continue for much longer.
IMO recharge is probably the most important pve skill out there and emp 3 is the most important raid boss and possibly the most important pvp buff out there.
Theyres a reason i said this. Aside from VR, SE and PP have the same buffs but the PP also has Haste (and others). So yeah PP over SE for archers, considering VR doesnt effect ranged attacks. And the PP heal subs just fine because the archers arent going to get hit all that much by other melees, when theyre fighting a nuker the only way they can expect to stay alive from a healer is if the healer is an EE or a Bishop. Casting speed ftw.
Oh and btw. BTS + Zerk = +++ for archers.
Zerk helps, yes. But consider, for example, the forest of the dead where I've been exping lately, with both a nuker and archer(s). The mobs there nuke a lot, which means kiting doesn't do anything. Pull some add and you'll get hit a lot. Even the non-nuking mobs other than zombies and spiders at night are fast enough to get a hit/hit on the archer, and they don't hit for just a few points of damage.
In the forest, invigor helps a lot, so that's a pro for the prophet. However, both the SR and HE I've been playing there with will take my SE over a prophet any time they can, because otherwise they'll burn through heal potions faster than SS. With berserker spirit they'll get hit even more, because it lowers both p.def and m.def for a considerable amount. Of course, best of both worlds would be having both prophet and shillien elder tagging along.
And yes, in PvP SE cast speed is a bit slow, especially mass PvP. But I'm mostly talking non-two-boxing PvE partying. PvP can happen anytime and you don't always get to choose your buffers in advance.
(And with my current setup I get 788 cast speed, which is enough for most any situation)
I am still dumbfounded how they can make such a vastly superior buffer and either pot the other buffs or make the other buffers plain worse. I cannot believe this can continue for much longer.
It doesn't. At higher levels, melee parties take a Warcryer instead of a SE. And nuker parties take EE for better recharge (due to better mp regen of the EE) and a lvl 52 SE out of party for emp3. And in C5 EE gets a mp usage reduction buff which all nukers will love. In PvP, it is no contest anyway. Nobody wants a SE as PvP healer. SE=buffbot due to no real "we want ShSaint in party because of THAT" skill. SE is going the way the prophet already went a while ago. Yes, in lower levels SE is better in many situations. But in higher levels, it is more advantageous to take a different buffer/healer/recharger and an out of party (lower lvl) SE for empower.
well thats why I have an SE and EE but still dont have a prophet and probably will never make one. I will actually play the EE in groups and my mage in groups but the SE is just for emp3 and for me to run around, come back and get arecharge and then go around until all mp is used up. I figured EE's rez is good, good recharge and probably some buffed skills at some point. Yes, if we are going to add warcryers to the mix, I love to have them in party and they also have some good pvp/pve magic attacks. A fun class.