I thought about posting this on Invin forums, but frankly I really don't want to waste my time registering there. Plus TL is such a forum ****, who knows where the thread would go.
At some point, in all those rantings, it was stated that RBs could have/should have asked Invincible to do Antharas with them.
Assume that RBs did do Antharas with Invincible. Judging from Invincible's actions, that would then mean that RBs was "against" Chaos. So then Chaos would "have to" KOS RisingBlades.
So really, what choice does a neutral alliance have? If they raid with Chaos, Invin will KOS them, if they raid with Invin, Chaos will KOS them. (That's not an official statement that Chaos would KOS them, just a hypothetical situation based off of Invin's current actions.)
So basically, what TrueLies is saying, is that neutral alliances are not allowed to experience the end game. He won't say that directly, but he knows that he is creating a situation which makes it impossible for neutral alliances to do this stuff.
Somebody in this situation has to step up and "be the bigger man". One side has to say, "OK, you can raid with them as long as you don't support them in PvP."
RBs did not support us in pvp against Invin. They did not "help" us actually get to Antharas. They did not hold back Invin as we raced to the portal. We would have gotten to the portal without them. We rallied first, we got Antharas, just like Invin rallied first last time. Whether their assistance inside of the actual raid was crucial or not is of no real importance. We still would have taken him out, with or without them. So their help did not harm Invincible in any way.
I'm not trying to stir up drama. I just think neutral alliances should be able to raid with whoever they want, whenever they want. Now if they start helping in PvP consistently (buffing/healing/rezzing) or siege every single weekend with one particular side, OK then maybe they are not neutral anymore. But going to Antharas should not jeopardize their neutrality.
Currently that is how the situation is. You raid with either side and you should expect to get killed by the other.
But I am currently talking to Both Invincible and Chaos in working out a time frame. Where Neutral Clans/Allies can band together and try the boss them selves. After everything is figured out, if the word does not get out. I will let everyone know of the situation and what the results are.
RBs did not support us in pvp against Invin. They did not "help" us actually get to Antharas. They did not hold back Invin as we raced to the portal. We would have gotten to the portal without them.
Thank you. When I heard RB was KoS, the first thing I thought of was "Did they help in PvP?" Because if they did, okay, I can understand the KoS. If they didn't? This is a really poor PR move on behalf of Inv, because what does it say to the rest of us not in Inv or Chaos?
"We don't care if you ever get to do anything in this game, you're just there to buy the things WE get to do instead."
Not the kind of message you want to send to the entire server. Maybe it's just me.
I'm not trying to stir up drama. I just think neutral alliances should be able to raid with whoever they want, whenever they want. Now if they start helping in PvP consistently (buffing/healing/rezzing) or siege every single weekend with one particular side, OK then maybe they are not neutral anymore. But going to Antharas should not jeopardize their neutrality.
QFT - Get off your high horses people. The server's a lot bigger than Chaos/Inv/Mirage/FotM Clan. Please be aware of that and let us have our fun too, huh?
While I agree with Aranya, everyone should know that we all are not gaurunteed fun when we make our character.
Everyone has their own idea of fun, and it is utterly silly to think that everyone should allow us to have our fun when we want in, where we want it. It's idiotic. It might and probably does interfere with others' fun, thus causing a conflict. When this conflict starts, people complain because there is a conflict over something. This whole ordeal just one [censored] up ego trip on both sides.
Members of RisingBlades (not RisingBlades as a whole) wanted to raid Antharas. Fine, they are entitled to do what they will within the rules of the game, correct? Members of Chaos (not Chaos as a whole) asked members of RisingBlades to join them in raiding Antharas. Fine, they both agreed. The members of RisingBlades agreed to not interfere with PvP. No harm in that, right?
They went, and they killed Antharas. Woot! Great feeling, huh, guys? Oh teh noes! Invincible made us KoS! *cry, [censored], moan, whine* Boo [censored] hoo! That's their decision. Take it with a grain of salt. Now what are you going to do? Cry for the rest of your L2 carreers? Or do something about it? If you chose option numero dos, what are you going to do about it? Kill them? Or make peace?
Ok, so you chose to make peace. Good. You made a descision. Now, ask yourselves this question: Was it nessecary to make such a big deal about it? Was it nessecary to defend your "right" to fun? You have no "right" to fun. But you have the right to choose.
It seems to me, Gildran, that you have a bit of hostility toward RisingBlades in your post. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
RB never wanted the PVP, never wanted the KOS, never wanted any of the BS that came in the shadow of the actual event itself. What we wanted was the event, was the dragon.
I will not go into this again. What has happened has happened, and now it's time to recover from it. You say it's about choice, and I agree.
By now, we all know what happened. We all know who's where, and who is being griefed. Publicizing it will not change things. It's time we let this die as far as RisingBlades is concerned, please. I respect the question regarding Neutral Alliances. Let's keep it there.
Swords High!
I don't know the particulars of Inv or Chaos or where RB fits in as I am not a player from your server. I have, however, been an officer of an Independent (often read as Neutral) clan on both Gustin and Sieghardt.
It's easy for a clan to say "I'm neutral" and expect to be left alone and be given free access to the whole server/game content. But the fact is that these people are playing in a microcosm in which other players are fighting and dying with "enemies" to gain access and domination over those same hunting grounds and rewards of end-game content. L2 is a PvP game. Anyone who expects free access and risk-free gaming in L2 is asking too much.
That said, those clans who have taken "sides" and the players who have joined those causes should out of simple courtesy, note that there are other players on the server that are not impeding their progress and whose monthly fees help to keep this game online.
The Equalizers on Gustin and Sieghardt managed to play for long periods without conflict. This takes hard work, maturity and patience. It's easy to escalate isolated incidents, it's easy to run your mouth (or let members of your clan run their mouths) about player X or clan Y. It's easy to make friends in one clan and offer "innocent" info to them such as if a member of Clan Z is hunting nearby, etc.
Lots of "neutrals" claim to be, but in fact aren't. Lot's of neutrals, when they do face hostility, run to a "big brother" clan for protection.. and poof; neutrality is gone.
When you are sided, you have to constantly look over your shoulder for your enemy. The neutrals at worst, are people you don't have to worry about when xping. At best, they can provide parties, discounted sales, raid-support and other non-sided things.
But if you want those benefits, you must respect their neutrality and accept that your enemies may also receive such benefits. When you push neutrals, you lose resources.
If you have a truly neutral or independent clan that is looking to do raids or other end-game content... as a side clan or player, it is to your benefit to recognize and foster their independence. They will grow to resent those clans who try to push them.
As a clan in several wars, we know that on every server there are clans who play this game with the objective to start fights with everybody, even those who don't start trouble or help their enemies militarily.
That hasn't shaken our independence. We haven't gone to another side and been absorbed or joined their fight. Neutrals need to know that they are not immune to conflict just because they claim neutrality. If they want to do a raid boss, they may have to fight for it just like most of the other players on the server.
If they aren't ready to fight for the raid boss, then they either need to grow more before doing raid bosses, pick a side and live with it, or chack out a Blizzard game.
It would be a great thing for the sided players to recognize those neutrals that really have been as neutral as they claim and offer them some "asylum" to do raids with them or their enemies. Maybe have the neutrals wait at the raid boss, let the factions fight, and whoever is left standing works with the neutral on the raid.
But no side HAS to do that and neutrals should not expect it.
Currently that is how the situation is. You raid with either side and you should expect to get killed by the other.
But I am currently talking to Both Invincible and Chaos in working out a time frame. Where Neutral Clans/Allies can band together and try the boss them selves. After everything is figured out, if the word does not get out. I will let everyone know of the situation and what the results are.
My issue with that is I have always envisioned L2 as a bit of a RTS/PvP thing. RB are resources, as well as castles, So to me to ask for something like a RB to be set aside for you to do everyonce in awhile is a bit odd. You don't ask for castles do you? RB, especially the endgame ones are the ones worth fighting over, yeilding SA's A/S grade items, etc. Those are probably worth more than a castle.
Perhaps it is time to make it more than just a two sided fight.
Currently that is how the situation is. You raid with either side and you should expect to get killed by the other.
But I am currently talking to Both Invincible and Chaos in working out a time frame. Where Neutral Clans/Allies can band together and try the boss them selves. After everything is figured out, if the word does not get out. I will let everyone know of the situation and what the results are.
Perhaps it is time to make it more than just a two sided fight.
lol antharas has been far from a 2 sided fight
4 out of 5 deaths to chaos
inv has raided it twice in this time but only managed 1 drop list out of that somehow lol
Currently that is how the situation is. You raid with either side and you should expect to get killed by the other.
But I am currently talking to Both Invincible and Chaos in working out a time frame. Where Neutral Clans/Allies can band together and try the boss them selves. After everything is figured out, if the word does not get out. I will let everyone know of the situation and what the results are.
Perhaps it is time to make it more than just a two sided fight.
lol antharas has been far from a 2 sided fight
4 out of 5 deaths to chaos
inv has raided it twice in this time but only managed 1 drop list out of that somehow lol
Whatever the case may be with the numbers, it is not Chaos putting neutrals on a KoS list atm, Sandron. It's Inv. Therefore, it is a 2-sided fight atm.
And I would agree, except any third party is not large enough nor organized enough to put up a fight against either party. Yet we wish to participate as well.
And unfortunately, this isn't a private issue between Rising Blades and Inv anymore. Because there are more neutrals than just RB. If we accepted an invite from Chaos that night, would we be KoS too? Is this a standing rule now, PvP assistance or not?
It is going to happen more often, I'm sure. The question is going to be, is Inv going to push neutrals away with actions such as this, or keep them neutral and let us play?
Currently that is how the situation is. You raid with either side and you should expect to get killed by the other.
But I am currently talking to Both Invincible and Chaos in working out a time frame. Where Neutral Clans/Allies can band together and try the boss them selves. After everything is figured out, if the word does not get out. I will let everyone know of the situation and what the results are.
Perhaps it is time to make it more than just a two sided fight.
lol antharas has been far from a 2 sided fight
4 out of 5 deaths to chaos
inv has raided it twice in this time but only managed 1 drop list out of that somehow lol
Was talking about server powers :p
And Antharas has probably killed more people than any other person, but he is still a NPC :D
If Chaos or Invin ask us for help with an end game mob we will say yes. We will not get involved in the pvp between them. In normal day to day play we will not assist either side fighting each other and we will not reveal locations, however if one side attacks us they will need to go red and then the aggressors will have their names and locations passed on for that incident and that incident only.
The last 48 hours has been very good for our alliance.
It will be interesting to see if other alliances try to follow the same path but I'm sure a lot of them are sitting back to see what happens to us.
Make no mistake, we are not crying, the last 48 hours has been fun and we are tighter as an ally for it.
If Chaos or Invin ask us for help with an end game mob we will say yes. We will not get involved in the pvp between them. In normal day to day play we will not assist either side fighting each other and we will not reveal locations, however if one side attacks us they will need to go red and then the aggressors will have their names and locations passed on for that incident and that incident only.
The last 48 hours has been very good for our alliance.
It will be interesting to see if other alliances try to follow the same path but I'm sure a lot of them are sitting back to see what happens to us.
Make no mistake, we are not crying, the last 48 hours has been fun and we are tighter as an ally for it.
*applauds* I'm genuinely very glad to hear that, Marcus. RB has always been a good alliance. IMO, it's about time something like this was addressed, and I'm glad it was with RB. 'Cause RB can put up a stand against such foolishness. ^^
ps- Despite it all, how was Antharas? I'm dying to do it myself. *giggles*
Currently that is how the situation is. You raid with either side and you should expect to get killed by the other.
But I am currently talking to Both Invincible and Chaos in working out a time frame. Where Neutral Clans/Allies can band together and try the boss them selves. After everything is figured out, if the word does not get out. I will let everyone know of the situation and what the results are.
Perhaps it is time to make it more than just a two sided fight.
lol antharas has been far from a 2 sided fight
4 out of 5 deaths to chaos
inv has raided it twice in this time but only managed 1 drop list out of that somehow lol
Whatever the case may be with the numbers, it is not Chaos putting neutrals on a KoS list atm, Sandron. It's Inv. Therefore, it is a 2-sided fight atm.
And I would agree, except any third party is not large enough nor organized enough to put up a fight against either party. Yet we wish to participate as well.
And unfortunately, this isn't a private issue between Rising Blades and Inv anymore. Because there are more neutrals than just RB. If we accepted an invite from Chaos that night, would we be KoS too? Is this a standing rule now, PvP assistance or not?
It is going to happen more often, I'm sure. The question is going to be, is Inv going to push neutrals away with actions such as this, or keep them neutral and let us play?
Why do you let someone else dictate to you what you can and cant do?
Thats essentially what youre allowing deus to do
Do what you want. Character is judged by the masses not 1 person
Marcus, I've been there when TOG was around. Best of luck to you. The saddest part is, because noone else wants to be KOS, you can expect no support at all from the other neutrals. I hope it'll change some day, but for now, we all remain leaderless cowards at the mercy of whatever Invincible and Chaos want to do because we won't cooperate with one another or form alliances big enough to stand on our own.
It was a blast. :) I lost 1/4 of a level and got no xp when it died cause the nasty dragon cast terror on me so I was out of range, but I still had a good time. Took a bit longer than it should have, but I'm glad I did it and hope to raid it again.
well I believe Chaos does more less harm than Invinc does to the server, so just stand up and fight, if at least one Neutral ally will start proly there will rise more and more!
well I believe Chaos does more less harm than Invinc does to the server, so just stand up and fight, if at least one Neutral ally will start proly there will rise more and more!
You'll find that about 50% of the server disagrees. If not and chaos DOES manage to get into power expect the same thing to happen to them eventually. Recall that they originate from Syndicate who WAS in power. Their behavior helped Invincible in it's rise back to the top.
well I believe Chaos does more less harm than Invinc does to the server, so just stand up and fight, if at least one Neutral ally will start proly there will rise more and more!
You'll find that about 50% of the server disagrees. If not and chaos DOES manage to get into power expect the same thing to happen to them eventually. Recall that they originate from Syndicate who WAS in power. Their behavior helped Invincible in it's rise back to the top.
Syndicate and Chaos are very different
just like Inv 1-13 are all very different lol
well I believe Chaos does more less harm than Invinc does to the server, so just stand up and fight, if at least one Neutral ally will start proly there will rise more and more!
You'll find that about 50% of the server disagrees. If not and chaos DOES manage to get into power expect the same thing to happen to them eventually. Recall that they originate from Syndicate who WAS in power. Their behavior helped Invincible in it's rise back to the top.
Yesterday Invincible RB Farm clan killed my 6ppl party VS their 30, when we already were finishing the RB off, well who cares if those Inv farmers did that, but as You state this is PvP game why not accept CW then, when I sent it and called for more ppl from my clan to fight ???
This ruins the game :( not that you took away our RB but you couldnt do so little thing as to accept CW :(
chaos startet waring mirage cuz we raided with inv and did antharas with inv you were called syndicate back then but its still the same **** so dont say you dont kos ppl for raiding
chaos startet waring mirage cuz we raided with inv and did antharas with inv you were called syndicate back then but its still the same **** so dont say you dont kos ppl for raiding
couldnt be further from the truth
attack and defended castles as well which lead us to war
as mulch said synd did pick on mirage out of boredom
it seems your level of tolerance has gone way up though with all the stuff you put up with from inv.
It started before we sieged with Inv, at least that's how I remember it, it was a consequence, we had to make a choice. We chose to play the game :)
Mirage did try really hard for a long time to stay out of the PVP side of the politics, and only do raids, and never assist in pvp with inv/synd. It didn't last, and I'm not surprised that it didn't. It has changed my viewpoint of the game ALOT! Helping an enemy of a neutral alliance is much like supplying weapons in secret to them, making them stronger, thus making you a threat. I don't blame anyone for attacking Mirage. We learned alot, we adapted and got in the game. We lost alot of people, most to the new Eternity alliance, but we also gained alot.
You can say alot about Mirage, but I can't see myself in any other clan/alliance, since I've been with the same core people since Open Beta, that is worth something IMO. It's the reason I play the game.
Bottomline is that RisingBlades can't expect to raid any end-game bosses with either Inv nor Chaos sides. If they want Antharas, you have to ally with other neutrals, and get to Antharas without bumping into any of the other sides. GL with that, if you make it, LOTS of kudos to you :) If you make it without having either side turning on you, it's a miracle!
I am glad that Rising Blades has taken a stance. But I can assure you that if you claim to be neutral you are not going to be that way for long. When you already know what Invincible has said it will do.
Raiding with either side is would not a problem if they can agree that the neutrals are ok as long as they dont pvp.
But there is no agreement so you will get Kosed and I am sorry to tell you that but that is how it is.
I already said earlier I am trying to talk thigns out and find a way where Neutrals can raid end game content.
Wheter it be they give us a crack at the spawn ( not likely)
We gather up a force and have friendly pvp against them for the spawn ( more likely then not)
There are so many options open if people just discuss. Instead of bickering and not giving any suggestions. There have already been some good ones thrown out there. Why dont we make a list of ideas and then come to an agreement.
We are neutral. Nothing has changed, other than we have a bull's eye painted on us.
We chose a side a very, very long time ago. We are Rising Blades. That is our side.
KoS be ****ed, we remain RisingBlades. We will not go to Chaos, we will not go to Invincible. We will stay RisingBlades.
I hope that a solution for Neutrals can be reached, and will work to further such a process. The server needs a third side, otherwise all we have is [Censored] contest.
Agreed. We all choose a side. Though some might say Rising Blades is the more powerful of the Neutrals. I read that someone on the Lionna forums. This was before I joined it, though.
You stoled my name :( Maireth
I am just saying that by stating that if Chaos ask you to come raid again, do not be suprised if you get killed when you go, or if it puts further strain on your neutrality. At least until this ordeal is sorted out you should consider not going on those Antharas raids. I believe you yourself stated that you are a nonfactor at those raids. So why bring trouble to your ally.
You are correct that The Neutral Ally/Clans need to come to some sort of agreement. It should not be hard if we just start communicating. You can get in contact with me here through pm and then through email.
No one should be forced into fighting a war that does no belong to them. Much like Rising blades Oblivion chooses the Oblivion side. Now I think its time for Neutral Ally/Clans to not choose their own side, but the Neutral side.
We are Rising Blades, but we need to push more for the Neutrals. We've kept ourselves, well, to ourselves, and we need to get out more.
Expect a lot of that to be happening soon.
And as far as further raids go, I'm fairly sure we're waiting. It was fun, but not something we want (or can handle) every week, regardless of who it's with.
Sounds like steps in a good direction. Pm me and I will give you my email address.
And I just realized Maireth is a Female SK, and I am a Male TK
You so did jack me :(
chaos startet waring mirage cuz we raided with inv and did antharas with inv you were called syndicate back then but its still the same **** so dont say you dont kos ppl for raiding
couldnt be further from the truth
attack and defended castles as well which lead us to war
as mulch said synd did pick on mirage out of boredom
it seems your level of tolerance has gone way up though with all the stuff you put up with from inv.
I really wonder what those stuf are :P
I admit there has been some tensions over a hunting spot, some beef between individual players. But more then that i cant really say we are bending over or being lapdogs as most chaos claims.
Sounds like steps in a good direction. Pm me and I will give you my email address.
And I just realized Maireth is a Female SK, and I am a Male TK
You so did jack me :(
It started before we sieged with Inv, at least that's how I remember it, it was a consequence, we had to make a choice. We chose to play the game :)
yes it did start before
you guys got caught up between the 2 sides while you xp'd with them or while we found them out in the open
but would flag here and there so ya
then the sieging part came ;)
Hey Zadar, did you cut random words from the newspaper throw them in the air and type them how they fell, sheesh. Try babelfish mate.
Hey Awesome its been a while. Two words, Arthro Nail, I still feel guilty about my stupid mistake that day...
Your effort to make sure the Nail was sold and the cash split made my first impression of Mirage.
Aww no, I admitted hunting with Mirage people (who I had great fun with at AB in C3). Dont KOS me Sandron mate ;)
Yesterday Invincible RB Farm clan killed my 6ppl party VS their 30, when we already were finishing the RB off, well who cares if those Inv farmers did that, but as You state this is PvP game why not accept CW then, when I sent it and called for more ppl from my clan to fight ???
Beyond doesn't care about you and they don't care about your clan. If they did they would be hunting you down all the time, but they don't. They care about doing their bosses and continuing on, the clan war is just a pansy way for you to not lose any more xp.
The neutral thing is just stupid. If you wanted to stay neutral your leaders would have had a short chat with inv instead of saying "oh ** it" and going for it.
When they said that they decided to do what they wanted regardless of the consequences. Well, the raid is over and you start getting killed and the only thing you have left is a pile of crying threads to be left alone.
I honestly don't see how calling chaos when invincible pks you
will keep you neutral. When it was posted it was more of a threat than anything else.
Not that its a bad thing but Marcus sounds exactly like Awesome back in the day. O.o
The neutral thing is just stupid. If you wanted to stay neutral your leaders would have had a short chat with inv instead of saying "oh ** it" and going for it.
Thats right Marcus. You had better have Invincible's apporval of anything you may or may not want to do. God knows if you don't talk to them and get all the documents sighned to state you can raid. You are KOS.
Next time you need to go to the bathroom make sure you ask. Cause if thats Chaos's toilet paper. You are KOS
Unfortunately I have never lived in an **** monarchy or a dictatorship, hence I'm not used to having to say yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir, a thousand pardons for interrupting you sir can I please have some fun in this game sir...
find me an aussie that agrees with mindless acceptance of authority and Ill find you a liar
ffs
(I know you were being sarcastic mate, I've just had a gutful of ppl thinking they are superior cos theyve spent more time on their *** playing a game)
I have a question to ask you Marcus. Why do you not let your allymates defend themselves? I was notified of one of your members being pked in Toi recently and I actually formed a response team to help her. We even found the culprit and when your allymate informed us she had orders not to fight back. LOL...of course we backed off after that, if the very person we are trying to back up doesnt help us! We really dont have a relationship with you but we where willing to assist this allymate of yours cause she parties with us frequently. Advice Marcus allow your members to fight back..you will be surprised how many of us are willing to help. On a further note enough of this talk lets all of us non Chaos and Invincible allys starting forming a relationship in order for us to experience some of the high-end content that has been shut off from us. I would like to mention that Sandron recently invited our alliance into Aden castle to take a look(something we never dreamed of before). Wow it was awsome and I really appreciate Sandron allowing a relatively unknown ally like us to experience this. On a further note I have found Chaos to be quite cooperative in the past regarding raidbosses that we had arrived at before them. On the other hand my ally has been ganked by WelcomeBeyond while in the process of fighting one. Anyhow I am gonna propose that all us alliances who are being shut out of the highend content form some sorta of partnership and assist each other in an effort to do those things. So in the near future there will be efforts being made to contact and form such a partnership. Please consider this idea and lets start enjoying all that this game offers!
I have a question to ask you Marcus. Why do you not let your allymates defend themselves?
Fair enough, I'll answer this.
The day after Antharas I posted on our ally private forums 3 options for our ally:
1. War Inv: take 1% hits and they dont go red
2. Let them go red and take the 4% and inform their enemies of their locations
3. Hide/Disband/whatever
All but a few voted option 2.
I voted option 1.
I accepted the majority decision with a condition that we review it regularly. So we have decided to "Ghandi" Invincible for now.
At the appropriate time we may war them, but we decide things as an ally, everyone has a vote and everyone has buy-in.
We figure they are more likely to drop items if they are red.
It also makes it possible to set up a sting, i.e have their enemies ready to pounce after we walk into one of their known hunting areas.
It also prevents other neutrals who we party with from having to make choices that affect their KOS status.
Chosen would have been KOS if they joined in. If you want that then go sign up to defend Aden this week.
Btw I also posted our strategy on the whiteboard known as Invincibles forums. Fortunately I posted the reply here also.
We made our strategy clear, i.e. if they hit us then expect us to give away their locations.
We still consider ourselves neutral.
Hence if they dont touch us we will not reveal their locations.
If you see flaws in this feel free to pm me here and I'll discuss them in ally. Sun Tzu knew what he was talking about.
Make no mistake, not only are we not hiding, we seiged Gludio last week. Been a fun week or two. Thanks Inv. The training has been invaluable. And Chaos are enjoying the free hits at those of you who want to risk it.
And I'm sure I can do a deal to keep every 5th A grade helm that Chaos get from Inv. 4% xp loss at Level 65 or the chance of an A grade drop. As someone else said recently, do the math.
One thing I will say is this. Many of us who have been around since prelude/C1 began fighting with Invincible for similar reasons. Back then they liked to try and tell people where they could hunt, who they could play their game with and if for any reason they could think up at the time and wanted to pk you they would do it. It is the main reason I joined up with Remnant, lead clan of the Rebellion alliance and fought Invincible every day for months.
Invincible eventually fell from grace and when they came back and grew strong they learned from their past mistakes, now it would seem they are returning to their old ways and the exact same thing will happen to them. Back then people only put up with this kind of crap for so long before a lot of people had enough and took a stand.
Deus and those in Invincible need to realise something and it is being shoved in their face at every single opportunity. RisingBlades are not choosing a side here, they have said countless times they want no part in our conflict and they do not interfere in our war at any time, ever. You guys are the ones that will eventually force their hand and make them choose a side, nobody else. Not chaos and not RisingBlades but Invincible. Deus is too blind, bitter and hate filled for our alliance to realise this and the rest of you follow him equally as blind.
I always read in someone's sig on the Invincible forums and hear Deus say that they don't tell anyone how to play the game but will tell them how Invincible plays. That whole philosophy is as ******ed as your "L2Cycle". Deus flat out told LagunaBlade that day at portal that if they went in they would be KOS and not to do it if they wanted to avoid KOS. I'm sorry but to me that is telling someone how to play the game and it is what lead to so many people turning on Invincible in the first place.
I take my hat of to people like Marcus and Silvanduril, you guys have the right attitude for sure and your respective alliances are lucky to have you as leaders there.
When someone tries to dictate server politics, there are better ways of doing it.
In addition, it's difficult to influence things when all you are doing is looking like a giant tool. So we're taking some lumps. Oh well.
Like Marcus says, thank you for the lessons. And thank you, we're learning who our true friends are. True friends stand at your side and help pick you up when you fall down. They don't value their precious group composition so much that they refuse to party with you.
So thank you to our true friends. You know who you are.
mmmhhh... for what i can deduce from real life: when u r on the top and nice with ppol 'inferior' u can assure to remain on top cos that ppol will support u or at least not be against u. But if u r not nice with 'inferior' that ppol will try directly or indirectly to take u down. Now your decision (well, maybe inv think never r going to be beaten, their prepotence is awesome).
Inv is going to do the same mistake Chaos did with Mirage and is costing them zerg superiority. It's silly, when u r in a war, get more ppol in the enemy side...
I always liked the ghandi strategy. The amusing part is that, honestly, Risingblades are generally not too high level, so the xp isn't too hard to make up. Risingblades are still neutral as far as I'm concerned. Invincible attacked them without provocation. If I'm around, you know I'm good for a rez.
I remember the Angels told me a story about going ghandi. The Angels, because one of their clanmates was used as a 2-box for an evolution party that was attacked by invincible, was KOS'd for over a year before leaving for WoW for other reasons unrelated to the KOS. They had one clanmate who would keep hunting up at Blazing Swamp. He got pk'd over and over and over, and lost several levels. The invincibles had to go red every single time though. Eventually they realized they were going red to accomplish absolutely nothing and they gave up pk'ing him. I bet they got real tired of the sin eater quest.
We figure they are more likely to drop items if they are red.
It also makes it possible to set up a sting, i.e have their enemies ready to pounce after we walk into one of their known hunting areas.
...
We still consider ourselves neutral.
Hence if they dont touch us we will not reveal their locations.
Aggressivley protecting what? You are going out of your way to make a strategy with an enemy alliance. Then you are going into an Inv controlled area and letting them pk you. You then give the signal and chaos pops out and tries to get drops, how is this neutral?
If you wanted to be neutral and do the "ghandi" thing you would take the Pks and notify no one or you could do like Marcus said and do the wars. You don't have to fight back just talk to Inv, say you don't want to lose xp and you would like to work out an agreement for neutral clans then go on your way. Maybe its too late for this but at least it wouldn't be as stupid as what you have going now.
As it is now you are joking about how bad Invincible is for killing you when you helped and continue to help Chaos [their enemy]. Give it a break, you are not neutral.
One thing I will say is this. Many of us who have been around since prelude/C1 began fighting with Invincible for similar reasons. Back then they liked to try and tell people where they could hunt, who they could play their game with and if for any reason they could think up at the time and wanted to pk you they would do it.
Actually, I haven't been doing this. I'm just espousing what I think Marcus was trying to say. But then, I've been up for far too many hours, so I could be way off base.
It hasn't gotten to the point where we need to do this, but it's a thought that crossed the table.
Personally, I just shrug and move on. It's only XP, after all.
I don't understand why you think that going red is a big deal. Personally i haven't killed any RB. We were told to do as we pleased so i haven't killed any personally though i've been in a few parties that have. We killed the RB members and 5 minutes later the PKer was white again and since almost all of us do the sin eater, red really doesn't matter.
Last time i checked the Ghandi thing wasn't to secretly help our enemies to kill us. Truth be told Marcus does not want peace. If he did he'd try to solve the problem rather than making a decision that cements him far from neutrality.
Last time i checked the Ghandi thing wasn't to secretly help our enemies to kill us. Truth be told Marcus does not want peace. If he did he'd try to solve the problem rather than making a decision that cements him far from neutrality.
Actually it's seriously the oposit here, if you didnt realise it, RB tried to open up an discussion yes serious ones at the Invicible aliance forum.
What hapens yes, TL either ignores them, or make a responce lock it, and basicly say that thers nothing to discuss. So what are you trying to say ? later on he also deleted everything who took up this from this forum. And PS theos threads where far from flamewars, they where serious discussion but we got flammed back.
If your saying that it's different, please tell TL to contact marcus.
We are not the one taking an stance on what side we are on here, it's you guys forcing us to do it, we havent done it yet but who knows how long we will keep it up befor we actually TAKE a stance. It's all on you guys.
Aggressivley protecting what? You are going out of your way to make a strategy with an enemy alliance. Then you are going into an Inv controlled area and letting them pk you. You then give the signal and chaos pops out and tries to get drops, how is this neutral?
If you wanted to be neutral and do the "ghandi" thing you would take the Pks and notify no one or you could do like Marcus said and do the wars. You don't have to fight back just talk to Inv, say you don't want to lose xp and you would like to work out an agreement for neutral clans then go on your way. Maybe its too late for this but at least it wouldn't be as stupid as what you have going now.
As it is now you are joking about how bad Invincible is for killing you when you helped and continue to help Chaos [their enemy]. Give it a break, you are not neutral.
Again, open your eyes. Read outloud and listen to yourself.
Marcus stated in this thread he is neutral. he doesnt have his alliance give locations. He doesn't fight Invin. BUT. If you pk them he will tell your enemies where you are . He will not avoid certain areas to hunt cause you say he can or can't.
He has tried to open up dialoge with Invin. His topic are deleted or responded to with comments like.
There is a big difference from getting pked calling the cops so to say then from calling them for you walking down the street.
You pk they will help themselves. leave them alone and they will do the same. It's ok that you want another enemy to fight and enjoy the romping of nuetrals that dont fight back. But realize its Invins choice. I have seen Marcus repeadedly tell deaf ears that he has no aggression towards either side and would be willing to do same for both sides. But hes not gonnalet you [censored] on him.
We havnt used the sting yet, I was warning you that its available and anyone that regularly appears in our red screenshots (yes we are keeping them) will become a target to that tactic. Why?
Because we obviously need to fight back to maintain our independence.
Dont say you wernt warned. If individuals in Inv want to screw with us thats fine, its a Pvp game, just dont come crying afterwards when you drop your gear and we dont return it.
And let me state once more for the less lucid, we will not attack unless attacked, we will not give away locations unless we are attacked, however those few that constantly do attack us may get some special treatment.
We havnt used the sting yet, I was warning you that its available and anyone that regularly appears in our red screenshots (yes we are keeping them) will become a target to that tactic. Why?
Because we obviously need to fight back to maintain our independence.
Dont say you wernt warned. If individuals in Inv want to screw with us thats fine, its a Pvp game, just dont come crying afterwards when you drop your gear and we dont return it.
And let me state once more for the less lucid, we will not attack unless attacked, we will not give away locations unless we are attacked, however those few that constantly do attack us may get some special treatment.
No, giving away out locations is a non neutral action. No two ways about it. It is wilfully coperating with our enemy alliance to hurt invincible players. If you want to end the KOS then let us go red and don't call Chaos. Fight back, nobody in inv has a problem with that, but don't call Chaos. The fact that you have planned for stings shows that you have no intention of trying to be peaceful about it.
Your alliance is not trying passive resistance. You are willfully helping the enemy and your alliance members are paying for it. Almost every member of you alliance who i've seen PKed has said the same thing. "I wasn't at Antharas, we're neutral" You knew the risks and now rathat than deal with them honestly you are saying "Hey we're not going to fight this we're neutral" and at the same time planning to have Inv members killed and give away their locations.
Passive resistance in no way constitutes having your enemies killed by someone else. All that calling Chaos on us does is fuels the flames and makes those of us who don't PK you (since we aren't required to) want to do so. You have NOT been diplomatic and yes i read ALL of the posts about this on the forums for multiple alliances. I've also talked with several of your members about it. It happened and yhou were called KOS. Instead of trying to work it out you said F that go ahead and make us KOS. Deal with the choices you've made. If you don't like what's happening then fix it, don't whine about us picking on you when you are continually doing things contrary to your claim of neutrality.
We havnt used the sting yet, I was warning you that its available and anyone that regularly appears in our red screenshots (yes we are keeping them) will become a target to that tactic. Why?
Because we obviously need to fight back to maintain our independence.
Dont say you wernt warned. If individuals in Inv want to screw with us thats fine, its a Pvp game, just dont come crying afterwards when you drop your gear and we dont return it.
And let me state once more for the less lucid, we will not attack unless attacked, we will not give away locations unless we are attacked, however those few that constantly do attack us may get some special treatment.
No, giving away out locations is a non neutral action. No two ways about it. It is wilfully coperating with our enemy alliance to hurt invincible players. If you want to end the KOS then let us go red and don't call Chaos. Fight back, nobody in inv has a problem with that, but don't call Chaos. The fact that you have planned for stings shows that you have no intention of trying to be peaceful about it.
So. If they fight you back when you attack them. Well I bet that won't take them off KOS. But if they don't attack you and even avoid you and you PK them. They can't call out your reds cause that won't get them off KOS.
What you are saying is you are supposed to PK them and they are supposed to do absolutly nothing ?
I don't get it. They avoid it. And if they give away the position of a person that went out of there way to kill them , then THEY are the ones trying to not be neutral?
I hate that TL leads that ally. Out of respect for your alliance so many invin take the position of defending certain poilitical stances by his being an idiot. And it makes people talk like idiots and make idiot statements.
Some people that are normally level headed are forced to speak like morons to defend an ally lead by a ******
They are fighting back. There's no difference between them fighting us and calling our enemies to fight for them. Either way they are the ones responsible. if they're trying to passicely deal with it then take the red and be passive. If your'e going to fight back then fight back. But don't do one and pretend to do the other.
Reporting positions to the enemy is not a Neutral action. It's one thing when you help out your personal friends. It's another matter entirely when it is you alliance policy. It's not that compicated, stop trying to make it a complex issue. If you give away Inv positions to Chaos that is detrimental to Invincible. It doesn't matter if you're doing it defensively or offensively. The point still stands, calling one alliance to kill the other is NOT neutral.
Reporting positions to the enemy is not a Neutral action... The point still stands, calling one alliance to kill the other is NOT neutral.
Under circumstances where two groups are hunting near eachother, maybe. But Marcus is talking about what they'll do when you PK them. Sorry, all bets are off if you're PKing them.
Like talking to a brick wall, eh Marcus? I'll come rezz you guys anytime- I think I owe you a few anyway... :p We should exchange MSNs man.
I am obviously not neutral in the game, but I will try to make a neutral statement about this argument.
What Kiroth is asking, essentially, is, that RB accept their punishment for their wrongdoings. According to truelies, they raided antharas with chaos, thus are not neutral anymore and thus "rightfully" subject to punishment (pk). If they do not accept this punishment they are showing resistance and thus are not interested in becoming neutral again.
RB on the other hand seem to not accept this assumption that they were in the wrong regarding neutral behaviour. Thus they are asking inv to show their neutrality towards RB, not vice versa. It is a statement out of a position of self perceived strength (or name it pride), not submission, which is what inv is trying to enforce.
To underline what I just said, I will quote Kiroth:
They are fighting back. There's no difference between them fighting us and calling our enemies to fight for them. Either way they are the ones responsible. if they're trying to passicely deal with it then take the red and be passive.
It says it all: Take the pk's and we will leave you alone...maybe.
The issue is that they claim neutrality but in no way shape or form is it Neutral to call Chaos. Myself, i wouldn't take it. I'd probably hit back. But i'm not trying to be neutral. If i were trying to be neutral i probably would have avoided doing something to piss off one of the sides. Everything you do has consequences. It's not a punishment and i doubt many people see it as that. Invincible has stated many times it's policy on aiding Chaos. The Antharas was seen as such aid and so there are consequences, both good and bad.
You talk of neutrality towards RB but in their actions (not necessarily the raid) and the words of their leader RB has shown themselves to have little interest in neutrality. Invincible will not stop killing RB as long as they call chaos on us and a "sting" as marcus called it would obviously be anythign but neutral.
If you want to be neutral good for you. If you don't want to be neutral then pick a side. You seem to have already done so and good for you for doing it. But you cannot play the game as a neutral without being neutral. You know how invincible stands on the issue, just like you knew how we stood on you raiding with Chaos. Your actions are determining the outcome, not ours.
Right, i'm not getting your point? i'm assuming you're telling me that i'm too involved in the debate. Meh i can post at work and of course it's a video game. On the other hand given that this is probably my dominant hobby it seems to make sense tha i have a vested interest in the affairds of the server. Now when i bought it the game cost 50 bucks, played for over 2 years so that right there is at least $360. So i have a financial investment of over $400 in the game. I and most of these other posters have a longstanding interest in this and it's only logical that we care what happens to our dominant hobby.
What Kiroth is asking, essentially, is, that RB accept their punishment for their wrongdoings. According to truelies, they raided antharas with chaos, thus are not neutral anymore and thus "rightfully" subject to punishment (pk). If they do not accept this punishment they are showing resistance and thus are not interested in becoming neutral again.
As u know there r some gods in that game (that who plays more time at day or more long ago or buy accounts & stuff). Gods dictates the world rules that they want and the inferior ppol we have to respect that rules. If u break 1 of that rules u r going to hell eternally receiving your deserved punishment, unless u suplicate, u become publicly humiliate, u request merci, u proclame that god power, ... so u know what to do now if wanna still be NEUTRAL, cos being neutral is not your decision, it's Gods decision. (hardly self-controled to avoid trashtalk).
If i say 'hi' to Chaos, will i be KOS???
Seriously, do u ppol play that game for enjoy or to feel powerful and totally selfish being superior to others in a ***** videogame???
Ppol who enjoy ruining the others enjoyment is bad ppol for me.
If you want to be neutral good for you. If you don't want to be neutral then pick a side
Seriously, is this the only option?
Why pick a side? Couldn't rising blades expand and compete against both?
I'm asking from a noob perspective but the question is serious.
I understand the uberness of Chaos and Invincible. I accept they have earned their standing.
Is the game truly so far progressed that there is no alternative to their dominence?
I don't have a horse in the race here (and likely will never level a toon even to A grade at this rate) but for others farther along I would hope that assimilation into either Chaos or Invincible is not the only outlook.
I didn't say that those were your only option but competing for things like antharas and such will earn animosity from at least one side. The thing is that for most of the big events you need to PVP for them. Baium, Anakim/Lillith, or antharas are competative raids. Our alliances come to them ready for PVP because they are so valuable. It's one thing if a Neutral ally arranges to do it themselves and another if they PVP for it. RB didn't PVP at Antharas which is the reason for the odd semi-KOS they have. Things like Baium that are required for quests and don't actually take many to kill aren't a big deal for neutrals to come to only the PVP aspect matters here. The reason that Antharas was a big deal is because it IS somewhat hard to kill. Every makes the XP loss of the group drop a lot, especially if they are a rezzer or a mage.
Once you start fighting one of the big alliances you are no longer neutral, at least in the sense we normally mean. You don't have to be Inv or Chaos but you aren't in the group we normally term neutrals. Since few start fighting both sides it's just more likely that you'll gravitate towards one side like mirage did and like RB is currently doing. If you want to be your own side i think that'd be awesome but because of the history of our server people are usually associated with one of the big 2 or are neutral. I know on other servers there are more than 2 powerhouse sides but Lionna has pretty much always been between 2 sides.
antharas is somewhat hard for invincible to kill
last 3 of our 4 antharas have been 90min kills
the most recent was 110mins due to an unlucky wipe of the mage team
I didnt invite the neutral allians/clans so they could help kill him lol. i know thats what deus would want you to believe but think for yourself and ask yourself how successful a antharas raid would be if that were the case.
Theres hardly any dialogue between chaos and those that were invited... i wouldnt even know their lvl's, classes, how many they were bringing etc.... i wasnt about to put an antharas raid in the hopes of how many neutrals can we bring lol.
This is classic Lionna. A thread entitled "Neutrals and the End game" and the last part has been Invincible and Chaos bickering.
I can see it Sandron.
Sandron > "Wait a minute, hold everything, are you sure we have enough b-grade gladiators and melees here to kill this dragon?"
Xiro > "Oh no! Quick, CALL MARCUS! I'll pm BaronessJade. WE NEED THOSE NEUTRALS OR WE'RE DOOMED!"
Yes, I can see that you guys have that kind of conversation all the time.
If you want to be neutral good for you. If you don't want to be neutral then pick a side
Seriously, is this the only option?
Why pick a side? Couldn't rising blades expand and compete against both?
I'm asking from a noob perspective but the question is serious.
I understand the uberness of Chaos and Invincible. I accept they have earned their standing.
Is the game truly so far progressed that there is no alternative to their dominence?
I don't have a horse in the race here (and likely will never level a toon even to A grade at this rate) but for others farther along I would hope that assimilation into either Chaos or Invincible is not the only outlook.
sadly drakkos, it will be very difficult for any alliance to the status of invin and chaos, the only other ally big enough out there is Mirage, and if they declared war on both invin and chaos, they would be attacked so much, bcause if invin isnt hunting in a spot then chaos is, and visa versa.
I look at it on a political stand point, there will never be a Neutral party to rise because the Democrats and Republicans would utterly crush them.
Same would happen if a Neutral ally tried to fight BOTH alliances... wouldnt work... both alliances are too skilled in PVP and for the most part know what they are doing.
If a neutral ally wants to declare war on both allys, go for it, i give that ally 2 weeks before it disbans do to loss of members, a neutral ally is neutral to stay out of the chaos invin war lol how would they be neutral then if they war both>?
Tell me point blank what it is that is making RB kos other then your god complex.
1. You stated that they have not tried to be neutral. Yet they have gone to your forums and said they would gladly raid with you. They wanted to see the end game. Instead of you talking back in dialogue to them. YOu told them to [censored] off. And they are KOS.
Any thread stating there neutrality has been deleted or flamed on Invin boards. So dont say that they havn't tried.
2. You stated that giving away your positions is not neutral. Yet they said they are not doing it. But if someone pks them, they would tell where that person is. So by them staying out of your way and you pking them they aren't neutral.
3. If they fight you back, then they odviously arent neutral.
4. What EXACTLY is it you want them to do? Get pked for going to Anthars. Then releasing to town and not saying a word. Wash ,rinse, repeat till you are done getting your jollies off killing people that don't want a fight?
Do you want them to quit?
Do you want them to fight you so you have reason to say "Look they flagged they fight us kill them?.
I am so lost. Everythign you type blames them. From saying they don't want peace. Which I have seen many threads on multiple forums all asking then getting flamed and told no by Ivin. Or deleted from Invin forums.
You want them to keep begging? Cause now you say marcus doesnt want peace cause hes taking a harder stance. Should he keep eating the [censored] you guys shovel. WHen he makes attemps hes shut down. When he says ok forget it. Then hes not being neutral.
Its like watching a blind person try and pick a corner in a round room. You go in circles and still make no sense, ryme or reason.
If you want to kill them just for the sake, then say it. But enough of the excuses for it. You have none
If you want to be neutral good for you. If you don't want to be neutral then pick a side
Seriously, is this the only option?
Why pick a side? Couldn't rising blades expand and compete against both?
I'm asking from a noob perspective but the question is serious.
I understand the uberness of Chaos and Invincible. I accept they have earned their standing.
Is the game truly so far progressed that there is no alternative to their dominence?
I don't have a horse in the race here (and likely will never level a toon even to A grade at this rate) but for others farther along I would hope that assimilation into either Chaos or Invincible is not the only outlook.
sadly drakkos, it will be very difficult for any alliance to the status of invin and chaos, the only other ally big enough out there is Mirage, and if they declared war on both invin and chaos, they would be attacked
Isn't this basically exactly how it is now. Mirage +Invin vs Chaos?
Drakkos, lets see what affect having only 3 clans in an ally makes in C5.
While everyone bravely states it wont change things much I'm guessing things will fall apart.
Chaos and Inv currently have at least 11 solid clans each.
That needs to reduce to 3.
I took a screenshot of the clans signed for Aden last week as a momento, something to look back on in 6 months.
Some clan leaders in both are probably courting another 2 clans and planning to reform as a separate ally already. Little thngs may trigger it. C5 will be different.
The first clan in Inv and Chaos that grabs 2 others and reforms will have the jump on the others. They'll be able to start building up those clan numbers to the 120 max.
One reason we will stay neutral is that we think either Inv or Chaos will really screw up the transition to C5. The other ally will take advantage of this and send them underground. The start of C5 will see one side dominate again, but I'm not sure which yet. Based on current leadership changes I know where I'd put my money though.
RB have already nominated our 3 clans and have moved mains from our other clans into them. Everyone in our ally has agreed with the choice of the 3 clans. Were now preparing to form our alt ally also, which we will use to feed the main allys academy etc until we get to the point that we can have 3 clans of 120 members.
I doubt RB will ever be the size of Inv or Chaos. Why? I believe this game has another 12 months tops. Lineage 3 beta will prob be out by then. Most people in RB have jobs and friends and families, we get maybe 2 hours a night and some time on the weekend online. We are designed to be a casual alliance and we do not put people under pressure to be online. I wont be responsible for feeding peoples addiction to the detriment of their RL.
We will have Chaos / Inv / Neutrals until L2 dies. It'll be fun watching the changes that must happen in c5 though.
Drakkos, lets see what affect having only 3 clans in an ally makes in C5.
While everyone bravely states it wont change things much I'm guessing things will fall apart.
Chaos and Inv currently have at least 11 solid clans each.
That needs to reduce to 3.
I took a screenshot of the clans signed for Aden last week as a momento, something to look back on in 6 months.
Some clan leaders in both are probably courting another 2 clans and planning to reform as a separate ally already. Little thngs may trigger it. C5 will be different.
The first clan in Inv and Chaos that grabs 2 others and reforms will have the jump on the others. They'll be able to start building up those clan numbers to the 120 max.
One reason we will stay neutral is that we think either Inv or Chaos will really screw up the transition to C5. The other ally will take advantage of this and send them underground. The start of C5 will see one side dominate again, but I'm not sure which yet. Based on current leadership changes I know where I'd put my money though.
RB have already nominated our 3 clans and have moved mains from our other clans into them. Everyone in our ally has agreed with the choice of the 3 clans. Were now preparing to form our alt ally also, which we will use to feed the main allys academy etc until we get to the point that we can have 3 clans of 120 members.
I doubt RB will ever be the size of Inv or Chaos. Why? I believe this game has another 12 months tops. Lineage 3 beta will prob be out by then. Most people in RB have jobs and friends and families, we get maybe 2 hours a night and some time on the weekend online. We are designed to be a casual alliance and we do not put people under pressure to be online. I wont be responsible for feeding peoples addiction to the detriment of their RL.
We will have Chaos / Inv / Neutrals until L2 dies. It'll be fun watching the changes that must happen in c5 though.
LOL, that was a great post my friend. I have to say that this alliance has become a bit arrogant (understatement for sure). I will say this...Their are several of us so called-neutral alliances beginning to achieve the levels and skill to begin trying some of the high-end content in this game. And we shall attempt to do these things regardless of the consequences. Keep this in mind, us "neutrals" are kinda close because we have needed to support each other in this difficult position. KOSing an ally for just wanting to see Antharas is something that is leading us to reconsider our "neutral" status. Then this BS about just allow us to pk you and dont fight back...well LOL! The arrogance being displayed here is comical. Go ahead Invincible continue your ways and I promise you that you will "persuade" us poor carebear neutrals to take a side and its not Chaos either. The side will be to rid this server of an arrogant bunch of gamers who have some silly superiority complex. Want a 2nd enemy? Continue your ways. Its one thing to fight on the seige grounds and at RB locations for the right to the castle or RB. Its another to actually try to destroy a bunch of peoples hard efforts to create a clan and alliance for trivial reasons.Thats just down right evil even tho I would agree its your right in this game. But it is also our right to recognize this as evil and thus react to it. GG and remember it is a game and so have fun! :cool:
The funniest thing I've read in this whole thread is the misconception of perceptions.
It takes 2 people to tango. Well, it takes RisingBlades and Invincible to recognize the neutrality between the two. RisingBlades has stated they wish to remain neutral with Invincible while Invincible is stating that they no longer recognize that neutrality, this must be understood. The reason why is because Invincible stated that anyone basically seen with their enemy, Chaos, helping to kill endgame raidbosses is KoS. It's their rule.
Ok, so that rule sounds stupid to everyone but Invincible. I have no problem with the rule no matter how much I think it's stupid. It's how Invincible wishes to govern themselves. Now, the question in the end of this whole debacle is this. Who will benefit from this? Remember, RisingBlades has stated they still recognize neutrality with Invincible. So with Invincible taking advantage of an alliance that won't initiate they are taking heavy PR casualties while RisingBlades is gaining considerably. But RisingBlades has stated they will not just sit there and take punishment, who would (Ghandi excluded)?
The situation has come down to not a choice that RisingBlades must make, but one Invincible must make. RisingBlades already as stated their course of action. Regardless to what the hidden truth may be, the known truth is what must be dealt with. RisingBlades wants none of it, but Invincible is forcing this upon them because they wish to only view their perception of this situation and not look at it from any other view point, or they're just confused as an alliance as to how to deal with this situation.
Does Invincible want the continued bad PR? Do they want to cause an uprising of neutrals against them? I read some interesting things in this thread while reading it. I don't remember who stated this but I'll restate it in my own way. A ruler can't rule those who don't wish to be ruled by them. Invincible was a ruler. By alienating those under them, they are weakening themselves considerably.
If the current trend of actions continue I predict this. I predict that Invincible will fall completely. Oh sure, they'll still be around, but they'll never truly be as powerful and successful as they were under GMB. By resorting to pettiness and tasteless tactics, you turn those who would have otherwise left you alone into enemies. Chaos vs. Invincible was about even. Both sides have their informants everywhere, asking where the other is. With Invincible in the process of alienating RisingBlades, that's just another enemy they are making, another ***** in the armor. The flip side, if Chaos did the same to RisingBlades I'm sure they'd report Chaos delinquents to Invincible. They weaken themselves by making RisingBlades enemies, since RisingBlades does not yet recognize Invincible as an enemy. "Treat others as you wish to be treated".
"But RisingBlades made the choice of helping Chaos...". Yes, yes they did. But Invincible is making the choice of creating another enemy for themselves by giving RisingBlades a cause for giving away their position. If they are fine with this, that's ok then. They needn't come [censored] and moan about it. Invincible just needs to realize that if they want less enemies, and their locations kept from Chaos via RisingBlades, they'd best check their course of action. I know RisingBlades doesn't want more or any enemies, but they won't back down from bullies either.
Marcus ~ You've proven yourself to be very articulate and intelligent though this whole ordeal. I'm glad I've been able to stand next to you through this nonsense. You've made more sense than most anyone else here on this thread. If people can just look outside of the stupid box they're living in and realize that life doesn't revolve around them and what they think. That their perception of life is only 1 in billions of perceptions of the same exact event/situation, maybe we'd have less stupidity in discussions such as these. Well done my friend.
That's really all I have to say about your post. Suprisingly well written considering most of the others in this thread.
Don't agree with the fall or the need for invincible to run a good PR game. Interesting idea about neutrals rising up but it has happened before, it didn't work out well for them. Sure they helped out their fair share but when the dust cleared they were all alone.
Interesting idea about neutrals rising up but it has happened before, it didn't work out well for them.
So Mirage wasn't neutral at one time. Then suposidly "pushed" to the Invincible side cause of Syndicate. That is when the rise of Invin 2 and the fall of Syndicate started. Those neutrals doubles Invins numbers.
zerg>all in this game.
So I disagree. It has happened and it worked out for over a year for them. And only now is it falling apart for them. And thats happening cause of it being an ally lead by TL
Nothing has fallen apart. I don't believe that any of your leaders would throw this [The recent sieges] up as the end of Invincible. It is indeed a victory but it is far from the end of a war.
I was pointing more toward other allies/clans like some of those that joined up with Syndicate. There are others for sure, some joined Inv but Mirage is really the only one to stand the test of time.
Good move for Marcus to plan out C5 clan changes but I doubt either alliance will be torn apart because of a clan name/leader.
Bad PR is not our concern, frankly many of the members of the alliance were somewhat excited. Marcus has made perfect sensem he's also made clear that he if it comes down to neutrality and fighting invincible he sees them as the same thing. Let me state it plainly. Doing actions which harm the ally or it's members is an agressive action. Planning stings and calling Chaos on our members are such actions. Don't try and add BS to it. That's it. Your alliance knew our policies and acted according to what they thought was best.
The results fall on them. Yes inv called the KOS and could recall it but as i've said many times. Invincible is what it is and sticks by it's stated course of action. Your alliance leaders KNEW what they were getting into. They stated as much on our forums (where it took several days to lock as opposed to 5 minutes on chaos' boards). I see NO reason why the neutrals should back down. But it is their choice and only a fool blames his fate on the decisions of others. No one controls your actions and YOU are responsible for what happens.
In case you didn't notice nobody rules Aden. If you side with Chaos then side with them. If you want to be neutral then don't side with them. Either way it is YOUR actions that determine the outcome our alliance will just react according to out stated policies. That rule is shared by Chaos and it makes sense. If you help the enemy in any meaningful way you are an enemy. I don't understand how that is a hard concept. It probably could have all blown over were it not for the actions of your leadership.
I have said many times, when my old Alliance was given this same ultimatum by Chaos we chose to give up neutrality. Marcus has done the same thing by having his members callin Inv locations. The difference is he still claims neutrality while simultaneously bragging that he is planning to at some time call in stings on invincible. These are not the actions of a neutral alliance.
I don't see why people have trouble understanding this. Helping one side gives you a bad rep with the other. If you want to avoid it then stop helping the other side. You cannot claim neutrality while actively harming or planning to harm the other side. I don't know how i can make it any clearer.
You cannot claim neutrality while actively harming or planning to harm the other side. I don't know how i can make it any clearer.
Show me proof of us harming either side. You keep referring to the 'stings' that Marcus mentioned, but I assure you we have not once called in anyone to deal with Invincible reds.
You seem to focus on that one statement, without looking at the whole picture. We have not done anything against Invincible beyond the imagined slights of a delusional leader.
Bad PR is not our concern, frankly many of the members of the alliance were somewhat excited. Marcus has made perfect sensem he's also made clear that he if it comes down to neutrality and fighting invincible he sees them as the same thing. Let me state it plainly. Doing actions which harm the ally or it's members is an agressive action. Planning stings and calling Chaos on our members are such actions. Don't try and add BS to it. That's it. Your alliance knew our policies and acted according to what they thought was best.
The results fall on them. Yes inv called the KOS and could recall it but as i've said many times. Invincible is what it is and sticks by it's stated course of action. Your alliance leaders KNEW what they were getting into. They stated as much on our forums (where it took several days to lock as opposed to 5 minutes on chaos' boards). I see NO reason why the neutrals should back down. But it is their choice and only a fool blames his fate on the decisions of others. No one controls your actions and YOU are responsible for what happens.
In case you didn't notice nobody rules Aden. If you side with Chaos then side with them. If you want to be neutral then don't side with them. Either way it is YOUR actions that determine the outcome our alliance will just react according to out stated policies. That rule is shared by Chaos and it makes sense. If you help the enemy in any meaningful way you are an enemy. I don't understand how that is a hard concept. It probably could have all blown over were it not for the actions of your leadership.
I have said many times, when my old Alliance was given this same ultimatum by Chaos we chose to give up neutrality. Marcus has done the same thing by having his members callin Inv locations. The difference is he still claims neutrality while simultaneously bragging that he is planning to at some time call in stings on invincible. These are not the actions of a neutral alliance.
I don't see why people have trouble understanding this. Helping one side gives you a bad rep with the other. If you want to avoid it then stop helping the other side. You cannot claim neutrality while actively harming or planning to harm the other side. I don't know how i can make it any clearer.
Please understand that we are taking no actions against invinsible. We are not doing a thing to you. We are not actively seeking you out. Not actively "setting stings" as Marcus eluded to. Read the whole statement. He said we might do something like that if someone consistantly started pking us. We want no quarel. We are not telling anyone where you are unless you kill us then. It's a one time deal, one time shot. You kill me in DC I'll let the Chaos member I know, know that you killed me in DC. If I see you later in BS I won't be telling Chaos you're in BS unless you kill me there. That is what we plan to do.
If you wish to respect our veiw of neutrality towards you then we'll not be telling anyone anything. But if you decide to PK us, we will tell. In otherwords, you will be forcing a decision. Forcing us to go against you. I stated in my first post here that we still view Invincible as neutral to us, that is why we dont' actively seek you out. You actively seeking us out tells us that you see us as enemies. The simple question that I guess can be asked...does Invincible want RisingBlades as an enemy? Does Invincible want to add another alliance to the list that will pvp/pk against them? That is the ultimate end of this situation. Either you decide we become enemies or not. We already stated we don't want to, but will defend ourselves if attacked. If you attack us repeatedly I suppose that will me you want us to be your enemies.
We made our decision as marcus has stated. Now someone from invincible needs to make one for them and state it concisely so we all know where we stand. I'm tired of going in circles here. The why doesn't matter anymore, the question is enemies or no? Will Invincible ever see RisingBlades as neutral again? If no is the answer, then I suppose we'll know what the answer is. If you will recognize us as neutral again, then this whole debate will have finally come to and end. Make a choice Invincible. Enemies, or neutrality for RisingBlades, the call is yours.
I for one hold Marcus in high regard and the last thing i want to see is his alliance get caught in something becuase they raided with us.
Listen Tl is an idiot Invincible will fall apart because of him. Whatever crap he tells you about ORB stinging you or whatever is stupid *** talk he spits out now is ridiculous. Open your eyes and think for yourself, Orb has no reason to turn against either side. It would hurt them more then help. SO back the Fark up and deal with fighting chaos.
As ive pointed b4, Chaos did the same mistake taken a neutral ally (Mirage, that wanted to remain neutral and trying their best to remain neutral) in war with them and that is still costing Chaos a war inferiority in numbers. But Chaos learn about that mistake and now is being more or less nice to neutral ppol (althought some idiots, but idiots r everywhere). INV is going to do the same mistake, let them take their consecuences and learn about it too.
actually chaos to we offerd them peace when they formed up they didnt want and now they cry all the time cuz they are ounumberd since mirage and inv are against em
actually chaos to we offerd them peace when they formed up they didnt want and now they cry all the time cuz they are ounumberd since mirage and inv are against em
actually that never happened
not sure who told you that lol
you talked to inyri and evolution. there never was any official "talks" regarding chaos
just a little fyi ;)
actually chaos to we offerd them peace when they formed up they didnt want and now they cry all the time cuz they are ounumberd since mirage and inv are against em
You don't have to fight back just talk to Inv, say you don't want to lose xp and you would like to work out an agreement for neutral clans then go on your way. Maybe its too late for this but at least it wouldn't be as stupid as what you have going now.
As it is now you are joking about how bad Invincible is for killing you when you helped and continue to help Chaos [their enemy]. Give it a break, you are not neutral.
The problem is that once Inv decides your KoS no amount of talking seems to work. Look at ToG...that is the classic example of how Inv treats "neutrals" that try to "talk" their issues out with inv. Where is ToG now? Oh yea they finally had to just disband even after "peace" negotiations were met with inv and they were removed from KoS. Some Inv would not accept the peace their own leader made with ToG and continued to KoS...some even dropped ally so they could continue to KoS ToG then they rejoined Inv and still KoS ToG. That is a prime example of the "peace" that Inv grants. You work things out and still get KoS because Inv leadership can not control their players. Once Inv leadership gives any excuse for hitting new targets its over. No amount of peace talks, deals, bribes anything will stop the hot heads from continuing to KOS. If they get heat from Inv they threaten to leave ally so Inv leadership caves into the whims of the out of control griefers in their ally.
Where I do agree though is by deciding to just let Inv gank you and not fighting back BUT telling others where red inv are you are not promoting neutrality. Dieing causing them to go red and telling no one is neutrality. Dieing causing them to go red and then notifiying their enemys is taking stabs at them, or setting them up and that will be seen as a sign that you are helping their enemy thus promoting the KoS order against RB.
Your just giving the players you call in the hunters against more reason to take this Inv KoS order outside of an ally order to a personal grudge. Inv in the past has said that personal grudges are between players and not poltics. Thats why BBW continued to attack ToG even after the peace accord was reached because they claimmed their grudge was personal. What your doing now is not going to help RB but make matters worse.
With the new clan war system once Inv declaired KoS on RB they should have declaired War. Even if they still did the passive resistance thing they would only lose 1% exp instead of 4% on death it will be less hard on your ally mates. You wouldnt need to notify Chaos where Inv was and it would keep things between RB and Inv at an ally level instead of building grudges.
Personally my choice would have been to declaire war and fight but thats only because I have been in the postition RB is in now. Sure you rarely will win and most times get rolled over but atleast you would have some dignaity for standing up against the mence. There has been rare occassions where those that fight back or atleast try to fight back gain some "respect" from the Inv ally and that softens the releations enough that there could be something worked out or in time the whole thing will just fade out. Even an ememy you wish to die the most painful deaths imagineable in some way deserve even the smallest amount of respect. Give them that and they may rethink the poltical mess they have created for themselves and resend the KOS. Or who knows...RB standing up against the big bad inv might be the catalyst that will draw other neutrals tried of being told to pick a side to come together and form a 3rd cooperative that might actually beable to hurt Inv/Chaos or atleast make things not so two sided or black and white.
I wonder what people would be posting about if it wasnt for this thread...
I've stated our position numerous times, and while I understand your posts we are not changing our position.
I'm not seeing a lot of posts here from Inv, maybe theyre focussing on this weeks seiges or festivals.
This server is more alive now than it has been in 12 months, everyone is focussing on festivals, seiges and hell even the status of lil old RisingBlades.
Were into the final stanzas of the first Act of the play, very soon Allys will be down to 3 clans. Find a way to be a part of the show and enjoy it, nothing lasts forever.
Basically, what I have deduced from reading all this is that the Lionna server consists of Invincible, the self-proclaimed Lords, and Chaos, the self-proclaimed Revolutionaries. Period. That's all either of them see as having any valid existence.
That there happens to be other people playing the game on the same server is of no consequence, apparently... They are just part of the landscape, more like a mosquito or a fly that needs to be swatted for bothering them, and then they pay the price for that, otherwise bascially considered fair game, like any of the mobs on the server.
Whoever is really the Lords/Revolutionaries of the server, if they want to be the ruler, then their job should be to protect and serve the population of the land and not only their own vested interests. The competition should be about who rules the land with a wise and fair hand, which inspres support and allegiance ... not who can gank the quickest and the most final.
Since this doesn't happen, the fist waving on both sides is bascially funny and comical. Why would any of us want to support them -- except out of fear, etc, or anger that we had been ganked for simply being there and having a mind of our own.
Historically, any King or Lord has been taken down that was not a good steward of the people that they were lords of. It always caused their demise. If they were good stewards, the people of the land always stood by them and they have been celebrated.
I play my game moment by moment. I am still learning about it and about the intricacies of playing it and not so excited about the fact of being stopped from playing it because of a side being taken or perceived. Although I have in-game relationships with individual members of the "Lords" and the "Revolutionaries", neither one of them as an organization have demonstrated overall behavior that I would actually want to choose one or the other. I remain neutral because I don't see anything worth aligning myself with.
Basically, what I have deduced from reading all this is that the Lionna server consists of Invincible, the self-proclaimed Lords, and Chaos, the self-proclaimed Revolutionaries. Period. That's all either of them see as having any valid existence.
That there happens to be other people playing the game on the same server is of no consequence, apparently... They are just part of the landscape, more like a mosquito or a fly that needs to be swatted for bothering them, and then they pay the price for that, otherwise bascially considered fair game, like any of the mobs on the server.
Whoever is really the Lords/Revolutionaries of the server, if they want to be the ruler, then their job should be to protect and serve the population of the land and not only their own vested interests. The competition should be about who rules the land with a wise and fair hand, which inspres support and allegiance ... not who can gank the quickest and the most final.
Since this doesn't happen, the fist waving on both sides is bascially funny and comical. Why would any of us want to support them -- except out of fear, etc, or anger that we had been ganked for simply being there and having a mind of our own.
Historically, any King or Lord has been taken down that was not a good steward of the people that they were lords of. It always caused their demise. If they were good stewards, the people of the land always stood by them and they have been celebrated.
I play my game moment by moment. I am still learning about it and about the intricacies of playing it and not so excited about the fact of being stopped from playing it because of a side being taken or perceived. Although I have in-game relationships with individual members of the "Lords" and the "Revolutionaries", neither one of them as an organization have demonstrated overall behavior that I would actually want to choose one or the other. I remain neutral because I don't see anything worth aligning myself with.
Is that why Chaos invited the rest of the server to come?
Is that why Chaos invited the rest of the server to come?
Gotcha ;)
Huh? invite the rest of the server to come where???
But if you mean the Antharas raid, I didn't mean to imply that the invitation to Rising Blades wasn't out of the ordinary and kind ... allowing a benevolent ally the opportunity at something way over their heads on their own. It was definitely very generous on Chaos' part (generous to allow the experience, I mean, for I understand none of the drops were shared with Rising Blades). A kind act here and there, that's really cool. :-) As far as inviting the rest of the server to come too, well, I guess I need to recheck my mail box, cuz I didn't see an invite. :cool: :D
On another note, it would have been even better if Chaos could have or would have negotiated with Invincible in regard to opening up the experience of Antharas, and other RBs like him, since they are the two powers that would take it as a personal assault if either of the alliances were joined by neutrals, thereby endangering the neutral alliances. I'm sure Chaos was aware of what was going to happen when Rising Blades joined them as well as Rising Blades were aware. It just would have been a really awesome step forward.
A couple of quotes by TL on invincible forums from the last few days...
for months i have been DESPERATELY trying to find the new mmo to play. I went to E3, I talked to many ppl, etc.
What sux for us is Lionna. Why? Two reasons:
- Lionna is #1 ebay server.
- Basically the whole server is the arena. If someone kills u, it doesn't matter cuz they get brez. If they drop top gear like A helmets, doesn't matter cuz they ebay it back.
But our server is really the worst, has been for a long time, and I've had fun for months playing relatively low lvl chars.
As a bonus the players on Teon in my limited experience seem genuinely nicer. Not saying it's perfect but Lionna is the worst.
Just sharing for some if you are bored instead of making a new char on Lionna you may want to check out Teon.
Yes, Invincible began with farmers.
I don't cover the actions of my own ally. I recognize it and have repeatedly stated, there are members in our ally who committ all the EULA violations. I have shared such repeatedly.
Is that why Chaos invited the rest of the server to come?
Gotcha ;)
Huh? invite the rest of the server to come where???
But if you mean the Antharas raid, I didn't mean to imply that the invitation to Rising Blades wasn't out of the ordinary and kind ... allowing a benevolent ally the opportunity at something way over their heads on their own. It was definitely very generous on Chaos' part (generous to allow the experience, I mean, for I understand none of the drops were shared with Rising Blades). A kind act here and there, that's really cool. :-) As far as inviting the rest of the server to come too, well, I guess I need to recheck my mail box, cuz I didn't see an invite. :cool: :D
On another note, it would have been even better if Chaos could have or would have negotiated with Invincible in regard to opening up the experience of Antharas, and other RBs like him, since they are the two powers that would take it as a personal assault if either of the alliances were joined by neutrals, thereby endangering the neutral alliances. I'm sure Chaos was aware of what was going to happen when Rising Blades joined them as well as Rising Blades were aware. It just would have been a really awesome step forward.
I might be wrong on this. I am pretty sure that Chaos gave a least a little something to RB. not 100% positive. I think Chaos kinda had in mind that they knew alot of neutrals simply wanted to expierience it. Chaos was going regardless. But welcomed people that wanted to see to get that chance.
I know Laguna Blade (sp?) was also informed and welcomed. But they unfourtunitly declined and decided not to enter the portal after Truelies threatened them, he loves to RP a Tyrant . And from what I have heard they have been pked by Elcholo and invincible members anyway.
I may be wrong on if RB got anything. But I can also tell you that if RB or another neutral where to go to Anthars with Invin. They would not be KOS
True Neutrality is not giving either side an advantage over the other. I have been reading forums for the past couple weeks and there are some skewed views on what neutrality is. They say to be neutral you have to help no one. That is incorrect and selfish thinking. Neutrality is serving the best interest of yourself. By not falling prey to either sides propaganda. By sticking to your guns and helping everyone but no one at the same time.
There are neutral Allies on the server still. Some of them have been said to lean to more than one side than the other. Leaning to one side and being on one said side are also to different sides.
If there is one thing you learn in being neutral. Is that it is not always easy to ride the fence when they wind starts blowing and the rain starts falling.
Marcus you are a good leader, there is no two ways about it. I wholeheartedly believe that you wish to stay neutral and just experience the game with your friends and ally mates. I personally think that the reason for you Kos is faulty. They say that you helped them save xp, you helped them get gear, you helped them do etc etc. Well, if you look at it from the big picture. It is xp they lose anyways in their daily battles with Invincible. Xp that they easily gain back grinding. Chaos literally could take the Raid boss on their own. Both allies have been doing it for months ever since he first fell. So all in all, its xp they would have lost or gained anyway, and gear is the same way. If you really think of it the Neutral Ally was a non factor in the raid.
But, Marcus, when you say that if you get pked or killed you will call their enemies. That in itself is completely far from a neutral standpoint. What would be better, if you don't mind the suggestion, would be to just fight them yourselves while trying to solve the issue. That or not fighting at all, a stand which I know you will not take and should not be forced too. In C5 both allies are still going to be as strong as ever. It may take a couple weeks but it is just going to be the same. Only difference is which 3 clan names are the main clans in the ally. The others will merge or become sub clans. c5 is going to be a very interesting turning point in the server, and I agree with you on that standpoint as well.
If Invincible were to say that RB is off KOS/semi-KoS, that would be the end of it. RB would go about their business, and the neutral allies would then look further into rallying for their own chances at these high level Raid content. Or they would ask both sides if they could tag along so that they could experience it. Currently the ball is in Invincible's court so let us see what they do with it. In the mean time try your best to keep your neutrality that you hold so dearly onto. As I said before it is not going to be easy, but just cause it is easy does not mean its not possible.
Just because your Neutral doesn't mean your a pacifist. Dude, if I had a neutral clan and people F'ed with me for no reason, be better believe I'd bust out everything to defend myself.
Now if you did something to provoke it it's different, but just becuase your neutral doesn't mean you can't pvp. In all Honestly Marcus has handled it quite well. He participated in an instanced event without breaking neutrality in getting there or while there. Chaos and RB fought an NPC and had fun. They then get threatened by inv. Whutever TL.
Marcus defined his position, outlined TL was a *beep*, and said if you wanta pk us, fine, but don't expect to be safe. If I was in inv position I would understand if i PKed someone someone will be after me. That's why they don't pk people cuz they know we'd take them down, and quite frankly, new inv is carebear. Deus is leading it which speaks volumes.
I don't want RB to get involved on Chaos's behalf. It would be much better for them not to be involved in our fight at all. However, if inv directly attacks them, they should do whatever the feel to defend themselves and people should see it as a defensive move. Remember who is starting the aggression. It's their situation and I know Marcus will come up with a solution that will keep RB along it's main goal it was founded apon.
And before you start throwing Mirrage and Nirvana cards around, Mirrage signed to attack giran /w inv which ensured a big fight when Syndicate owned it. Mirrage always felt left out cuz they didn't do anything anyways and decided to side with inv cuz there was something to gain. Wasn't a bad move really. Zerg was strong for a long time, props to you all on that.
The issue is that they claim neutrality but in no way shape or form is it Neutral to call Chaos. Myself, i wouldn't take it. I'd probably hit back.
I think you hit the nail on the head...you'd fight back, and we all know Kiroth that you would do it in any fashion you needed to to win. Calling Chaos is the most effective way for the Rising Blades to maintain the interests of...you've guessed it...the Rising Blades!
I should imagine that if Chaos put them on a KoS list they'd start providing you with Chaos locations too.
Everything you do has consequences. It's not a punishment and i doubt many people see it as that. Invincible has stated many times it's policy on aiding Chaos. The Antharas was seen as such aid and so there are consequences, both good and bad.
Being KoS isn't punishment? Of course it is, you silly boy. It's a retalitory response to an action that Inv wants the server and more specifically the Rising Blades to refrain from in the future....it's also the consequence of being involved with the raid. Don't get too philisophical there bud...it's not your strong suit.
You talk of neutrality towards RB but in their actions (not necessarily the raid) and the words of their leader RB has shown themselves to have little interest in neutrality. Invincible will not stop killing RB as long as they call chaos on us and a "sting" as marcus called it would obviously be anythign but neutral.
Inv wouldn't stop PKing them if they didn't call Chaos...you'd just say it was still about the raid.
God...what happened to the strong arrogant Inv we all knew and loved!! Call them KoS because you feel like it and stop the pretense....and then back it up if you think you can...
If you want to be neutral good for you. If you don't want to be neutral then pick a side. You seem to have already done so and good for you for doing it. But you cannot play the game as a neutral without being neutral. You know how invincible stands on the issue, just like you knew how we stood on you raiding with Chaos.
Herein lies the biggest issue...and it's been addressed to some extent farther into the post than this thread I arbitrarily decided was the silliest one, and thus in need of being picked apart.
Neutrality means that you're out for YOU. Period. Doesn't mean you're a passivist, a negotiator, or even a nice and likeable fellow. It means you put YOU before everyone else, and have no favorites beyond what's going to be best for YOU.
Look at Paul Rusesabagina...he bought supplies from the Hutu militia to feed the Tutsi...he bribed the Hutu Army with whiskey to protect him from the militia, and negotiated with the Belgium UN officials to protect him from both.
He didn't care a lick about the Belgiums, or the Militia, or the Army...Paul cared about Paul...and Paul's family. If you REALLY read what Marcus was saying I think you'd see the same thing.
Your actions are determining the outcome, not ours.
LOL...this is the best part of the Inv philosophy...you see it in men who beat their wives too.
"You MADE me break your jaw! I didn't want to...I love you! But I've told you not to burn the spaghetti sauce, and you just don't listen...so I didn't have a choice! **** it! Now I have to hit you again for crying and making me feel bad!!"
It's cute and all...but it doesn't really fly in the real world either.
LOL...this is the best part of the Inv philosophy...you see it in men who beat their wives too.
"You MADE me break your jaw! I didn't want to...I love you! But I've told you not to burn the spaghetti sauce, and you just don't listen...so I didn't have a choice! **** it! Now I have to hit you again for crying and making me feel bad!!"
It's cute and all...but it doesn't really fly in the real world either.
Ok i'm assuming from this you've never been in that sort of situation. Otherwise you wouldn't make such a horrific comparison. First off that's the kind of life i grew up in and i find it sickening for you to relate that to something as trivial as an ingame spat.
But lets run with your example using my person experience. I refuse to lay blame for anything good or ill on other people. It is a weakness of not wanting to take credit for your choices. As a child i was punished for being smart and upity. Not as in i was smart mouthed but that due to my performance in school and memory i was stepping above my place and "kids need beaten so they know who's in charge." I knew what actions would earn punishment but i did them anyway because i knew that i had to do well to get out of the hole i grew up in. As i grew older things got worse. Maybe i'd win an award or get into a special class. Where other children recieved a bike for it i recieved bruises. I don't blame him for his actions nor my mother for not stopping it. I did what i did because it was the right thing to do.
When i was 12 i had had enough and made sure it would never happen again. I am fully responsible for my life. I will not fost by faults or strengths on anyone else and i will not blame others for what has happened to me. I pity the person who blames their weakness on others and who don't have the courage to control their own lives.
Now that we've fully explored your analogy i will bring us back to where it started. Action breeds consequence. Deal with how you will but don't whine that it's not your fault.
Edit: Speaking of which i personally don't appreciate DH members telling my clan leader that he wished he knew where she lived so he could tell her husband he wasn't beating her enough and then threatining to do the job himself.
Ok i'm assuming from this you've never been in that sort of situation. Otherwise you wouldn't make such a horrific comparison. First off that's the kind of life i grew up in and i find it sickening for you to relate that to something as trivial as an ingame spat.
Quite the oposite...saw it with my cousin's everyday till they finally moved in with us. Yea...it was sickening. So is the the prevalent attitude portrayed by Inv in this instance. It's not the same act...it's the same ATTITUDE. One might compare a good many things who's degree of social acceptablity differs a great deal for the sake of example when said many things have some relevance in the given instance...again, for your own sanity, don't be a philosopher...you're just no good at it bud.
But lets run with your example using my person experience. I refuse to lay blame for anything good or ill on other people. It is a weakness of not wanting to take credit for your choices.
I knew what actions would earn punishment but i did them anyway because i knew that i had to do well to get out of the hole i grew up in.
I did what i did because it was the right thing to do.
I am fully responsible for my life. I will not fost by faults or strengths on anyone else and i will not blame others for what has happened to me. I pity the person who blames their weakness on others and who don't have the courage to control their own lives.
And just earlier from you we saw:
The results fall on them....
I see NO reason why the neutrals should back down. But it is their choice and only a fool blames his fate on the decisions of others. No one controls your actions and YOU are responsible for what happens.
Sounding like a broken record...surprisingly about two things you claim are very dissimilar. Coincidence? Not really...you're probably just having a hard time formulating a clear thought what with the Inv propaganda leaking into your RL issues and all.
I'd say that the RB leadership is doing just that, doing what they believe to be right...I re-read the whole thread...Marcus and Olorae aren't whining and asking you to pretty please not PK them...they gave you a very clear cut message as to how they had decided, presumably as an alliance, to deal with you....and that's all.
Edit: Speaking of which i personally don't appreciate DH members telling my clan leader that he wished he knew where she lived so he could tell her husband he wasn't beating her enough and then threatining to do the job himself.
Nope I wouldn't like that either...rather -_-d up that someone would say something like that...especially about a "video game" which we all know has NO bearing on our personal lives at all.
Wait....
Meh i can post at work and of course it's a video game. On the other hand given that this is probably my dominant hobby it seems to make sense tha i have a vested interest in the affairds of the server. Now when i bought it the game cost 50 bucks, played for over 2 years so that right there is at least $360. So i have a financial investment of over $400 in the game. I and most of these other posters have a longstanding interest in this and it's only logical that we care what happens to our dominant hobby.
Guess we should go with just -_-d up then...since this is more than a game now apparently 0.o
Ah well, despite feeling genuinely bad for the way you had to grow up (assuming you aren't lying, which I wouldn't put past you) you've again managed to entertain me almost as much as TL himself...thanks Kir...I knew you were good for something ^^
Kiroth i dont know who your talking about, but im not one who lets comments like that go lightly. I want to have his name, so i can deal with it. My apologies to you and your clan, just like you said, this is a game, and for ANYone to make those comments, especially from my clan will be dealt with. There are some who had a mouth like that, we have already let go, so it could be one of them. Let me know, and once again, my apologies, and this is in no way how DH acts in a whole. Thats complete crap for anyone to say that.
Edit: Speaking of which i personally don't appreciate DH members telling my clan leader that he wished he knew where she lived so he could tell her husband he wasn't beating her enough and then threatining to do the job himself.
Well, I find that kinda strange. As your clan leader is TL. Didn't know he was a woman too! :eek: Or was 'it' given out to someone for good behaviour.
Also, since I'm assuming its TL, that "DH" member whoever it was would have had an automatic 72h or perma ban, so an issue there is probably moot.
Edit: Speaking of which i personally don't appreciate DH members telling my clan leader that he wished he knew where she lived so he could tell her husband he wasn't beating her enough and then threatining to do the job himself.
HAHAHA i gaurentee Truelies made that one up if you didn't hear it yourself.
Your clan leader (whos ALT charecter runs your clan LOL @ you) is a joke. ANd is a joke of the entire Lineage community. I really hope he is seriously gonna move to teon.
I can so see him building up this ohh well i like teon bit so when he gets whooped again and then leaves the server (like he did last time) He will have a better excuse then oh uh i needed a break.
Who cares if the clan is 'led' by an alt? Sharif has been banned - so any clan he runs now is technically an alt clan - along with every single account he buys. So what? First 78 hierophant in Heartbreakers. I'm no alt.
You people take the DUMBEST things and pick at them. I'm so tired of the alt clan comments - get back to me when you pick up on something new. This one-note 'insult' is so old it just makes you look silly to keep bringing it up.
Edited to say I reread your signature and now I get it. It's Izzy **** who can't think of more creative things to say. Same old shout in TOI and Aden. Ppppft. Thought you were a semi-important person. My bad.
Who cares if the clan is 'led' by an alt? Sharif has been banned - so any clan he runs now is technically an alt clan - along with every single account he buys. So what? First 78 hierophant in Heartbreakers. I'm no alt.
your analysis or comparison or whatever this is makes no sense btw. none. no clan in Chaos (or in any ally i have been in) is led by an alt of another player.
There are two major questions in this post.
Will Neutrals have a chance at End Game RB's?
Will RisingBlades ever be taken of KoS from Invincible?
Antharas, Baium & Valakas are all examples of Raids that is now and will in the future be very dificult for other than Chaos and Invincible to do. These RB's are so important to the gameplay that they need to be killed before the enemy or neutrals get to do them. Its simply too great a profit for the alliance to do these raids to just give it up. The only way Chaos and Invincible can gain from Neutrals doing this raid is if those Neutrals in turn switch side and give up neutrality to benifit either side. By helping Chaos or Invincible, Neutrals show that this side has been chosen (by helping the enemy in high end competition). If Neutrals wish to have any chance to do this and still be neutrals then they need to do it all alone, only neutrals can come to help and only neutrals can benefit from the droplist. Right now this is very hard on Lionna since Baium is dead less than 1 hour after spawn and Antharas is dead less than 12 hours after spawn. Valakas is just way too hard for Neutrals, but its up right now, go try!
Rising Blades want to return to neutral status (or so some claim). You have to understand that you have actively helped Chaos knowing that by doing so you would be KoS from Invincible. RBs made the choice to go inside Antharas Lair after being told by Invincible leader that it would result in KoS. Other Neutrals had the very same choice and it was very clear, none but RBs wished to be KoS and change their Neutral status forever. The sure way to become Neutral again is very simple. Invincible has very simple rules towards Neutrals. RBs must disband those who act against Invincible, be it the Leader of the clan then disband the clan, and its members will be free from KoS and once again Neutral.
Invincible does not loose the Public Relations fight from this act towards RBs. Invincible draws a clear line that Neutrals can not help Chaos and expect to remain neutral. If Invincible were to stop the KoS on those known to help the enemy, then every Neutral would loose respect towards Invincible and help Chaos without risk.
Plz stop write up lies Player01, TL have said nothing about how to stop the KOS, in fact he does nothing more then ignore the mater, example lock threads about it or just delete them as he's doing now.
And be aware, RB is not thretening Invincible as enemies but Invi is, the question is how long this will keep up, but maby Invi want yet another neutral alians to war them, 2 neutral alianses have alredy done so this week.
..... If Invincible were to stop the KoS on those known to help the enemy, then every Neutral would loose respect towards Invincible and help Chaos without risk....
How ironic ... I gained respect for GMB because he actually showed some logic and changed this twisted logic from the old days Inv (arguably for political gain etc etc ... but that's another billion post thread and done to death elsewhere). This stance is EXACTLY why I originally LOST all respect for Invincible (although I still respect individual friends who some unfathomable reason stay there). You seem to feel it gives you respect when in fact, for a large portion of the population it has the exact opposite effect.
Sure, KOS someone for a while ... no biggie, it's the game. But when you go all "JOO R KOS forever and ever unless you disband, reroll, grovel and kiss our toes ..." that's just plain LOL funny. And will never gain respect, only sideways looks that one reserves for unbathed twitchy street people one sees at bus stops. You know the ones ... be-bopping to their own voices, snorting the ashes of their foodstamps, completely unaware that the rest of the world is standing as far away from them as they can while feeling vaguely nauseous and wishing that they'd listen to the doctors and be more compliant with their medication. Because DAMMIT I pay taxes and shouldn't have to feed (or provide snorting ashes for) the unfortunate unmedicated and mentally whacked ... but I digress.
Disclaimer: not to say I don't feel that way about certain Chaos individual as well ... buts it's an individual thing there, not collective insanity.
Player1, I'm guessing that when TL asks you to lie down on the floor and take that pill that smells like almonds, you'll be the first one to unthinkingly do so. The only scary thing here is how indoctrinated some of you are, hell he must have a good sales pitch.
Fortunately though, most people I've met in Inv are smarter than that.
1) This thread is old news as far as Rising blades is concerned. We are about a month removed from the incident and the origianal post. The parties concerned have moved on.
2) Since you have not posted your in-game name or affiliation, I can only assume that you are not the leader or in the leadership of Invincible. Therefore, your evaluation and opinion of this situation is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.
3) From the moment we took Innadril we ceased to be a neutral ally. We are more accurately a ally that doesnt wish to be involved in a 24/7 conflict with Chaos or Invincible. The day we change that stance will be a day of our choosing not someone elses. We haven't changed yet, and we certainly arent going to be swayed by yet another forum warrior.
I'd add something amusing and/ or entertaining, but I save my comedic gems for clan and ally chat. Im extremely proud of my low post count in the offical forums. I already feel I have wasted precious valuable time that could have been better spent counting the textured dots on my ceiling. Well...since that's blown. I guess I'll just go back to playing L2.
Feel free to continue this discussion without me. :eek:
Daedalis~ 6X DA
DrayvinAzuryth~ 7X SH
Leader of UmbarSurinen ~ Rising Blades Alliance